General True Crime Shows

[LuvMyShows]

On 6/5/2022 at 12:46 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Just finished watching the second part of the 2-part "Who Do You Believe?", which pitted Celeste Beard against her two daughters.  We've seen Celeste's story on many franchises, and there's no question who I believe!

Quoting myself because I just watched an episode of Vengeance: Killer Millionaires, and it was also about the Celeste Beard/Tracy Tarlton murder of Celeste's husband.  The episode was from 2021 and all the pics of the daughters were pixellated out.  So someone from Who Do You Believe must have done some serious convincing of the daughters to not only have their pictures be shown, but to be prominently featured.  

[LuvMyShows]

Did anyone watch the People Investigates: Groene Family Massacre episode?  Unbearably horrifying.  This one will probably stick with me, for the unbelievable presence of mind of the then 8-year old daughter Shasta and how she dealt with her kidnapper.  Also, as weird as this sounds, I am glad the parents weren't alive to have to see whatever was on that video of the torturing of the son that was kidnapped with her.

[LuvMyShows]

"He's just not that into you" is what a normal person would conclude if they were planning to pay all expenses for a romantic getaway with their boyfriend, and he wouldn't even agree to go unless you bring your close female friend along on the trip.  But Kathy Denson still went ahead with the trip, and even proposed to the boyfriend, Cody Boyd on the trip!  This was on Vengeance: Killer Millionaires and I think I'd seen it on other franchises too, but I didn't remember that she was found not guilty of his murder.  From the way they presented it, it sure didn't seem like self-defense to me; rather it seemed like revenge for Cody falling for the female friend.  But the three of them certainly were a drug-fueled disaster waiting to happen.

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Did anyone watch the People Investigates: Groene Family Massacre episode?  Unbearably horrifying.  This one will probably stick with me, for the unbelievable presence of mind of the then 8-year old daughter Shasta and how she dealt with her kidnapper.  Also, as weird as this sounds, I am glad the parents weren't alive to have to see whatever was on that video of the torturing of the son that was kidnapped with her.

I did. I'd first heard that case on an episode of "FBI: Criminal Pursuit" years ago and it was horrifying enough then. To actually hear from Shasta herself, and to learn more about the other awful crimes this psycho was responsible for...just...ugh. It's stunning how many chances he had to go free, thus allowing him the opportunity to commit his horrible crimes. 

Much admiration for the waitress who picked up on who Shasta was, and who also managed to stall long enough to keep her and the creep at that restaurant until the police arrived. She's a true hero. 

[ApplesandPears]

Did anyone watch People Magazine Investigates about Mary Bailey and Priscilla Wyers? I won't give away the plot if no one's seen it yet, however, I will say makes you scratch your head and go of course that was the outcome. If you haven't seen it, it's on Discovery ID. I think it might also be on it Discovery Plus, but I'm not sure because I don't have that channel. If you haven't seen it watch it.

[ApplesandPears]

On 5/18/2022 at 7:34 PM, One Tough Cookie said:

I saw interview with one of his son son who got out,  changed his last name and is living a normal life. I believe his mom got out also.

And you KNOW what child molesters are in  the prison food chain😏

Exactly! I'm glad to hear the mom and son got out and are doing ok.

[Razzberry]

8 hours ago, ApplesandPears said:

Did anyone watch People Magazine Investigates about Mary Bailey and Priscilla Wyers? I won't give away the plot if no one's seen it yet, however, I will say makes you scratch your head and go of course that was the outcome. If you haven't seen it, it's on Discovery ID. I think it might also be on it Discovery Plus, but I'm not sure because I don't have that channel. If you haven't seen it watch it.

I saw that one.  Priscilla was a piece of work.  Was glad to hear that Mary went on to live a successful life and overcame such awful beginnings. 

[LuvMyShows]

On 6/13/2022 at 12:45 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Quoting myself because I just watched an episode of Vengeance: Killer Millionaires, and it was also about the Celeste Beard/Tracy Tarlton murder of Celeste's husband.  The episode was from 2021 and all the pics of the daughters were pixellated out.  So someone from Who Do You Believe must have done some serious convincing of the daughters to not only have their pictures be shown, but to be prominently featured.  

Re-quoting myself because the V:KM episode (Season 1, episode 8, Fatal Fortune, on Hulu) featured Dick DeGuerin as one of the talking heads.  He was Celeste's lawyer, and is/was arguably the most famous defense lawyer in the country (it's amazing, or pathetic, what you get exposed to when you watch a lot of true crime!).   And when he's been shown on various shows through the years, he's kind of a 'silver fox' in appearance.  So I was floored, when I saw how he looked in V:KM.  He had a beard and I literally didn't recognize him...didn't look distinguished at all.  So I was surprised to find that at least according to his website, he is still practicing.   I tried to find a Google image of him with a beard to insert here but there wasn't one, and I couldn't copy the image from the episode.  If anyone watches the episode, I'd be curious to hear your impression!

[LuvMyShows]

Did anyone watch episode 5 of Who Do You Believe?  It was about a man murdered in his sleep, and it pitted the wife against the son.  Ordinarily I have a pretty good, or very good, sense of who I think is telling the truth.  But in this case, I really couldn't tell.  Early on I thought she was lying, especially since there were times when her voice would go up really high and it seemed like she might be lying at those times.  Also, in her story, when the intruder comes in and murders her husband, the guy basically launches directly into a story all about why he committed the murder, which just seems unlikely.  And even though she said the guy's hoodie muffled his voice, I have very hard time believing she would not recognize her own son's voice, which is who she ended up saying she thought was the murderer.  Plus she said she got a look at him once, and she didn't add anything like "but it was really dark", so you'd think she would have recognized her son. 

But the son's theory about how after killing the husband, the mom walked a total of 45 minutes there-and-back to a lake to throw in the gun, then a few days later when she thought she was in the clear for the murder, she went back to the lake and retrieved the gun, just makes absolutely no sense.  And there also seemed to be something suspicious about the gun being found in her car after the son had some involvement with telling the cops about it.  And his alibi being watching Netflix and having the viewing history to prove it, only means that the TV was on Netflix, not that he was there watching it.  And thinking that she paid off law enforcement to get rid of the crime scene photos sounds a bit far-fetched.

I actually don't think either of them did it.

[SunnyBeBe]

15 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Did anyone watch episode 5 of Who Do You Believe?  It was about a man murdered in his sleep, and it pitted the wife against the son.  Ordinarily I have a pretty good, or very good, sense of who I think is telling the truth.  But in this case, I really couldn't tell.  Early on I thought she was lying, especially since there were times when her voice would go up really high and it seemed like she might be lying at those times.  Also, in her story, when the intruder comes in and murders her husband, the guy basically launches directly into a story all about why he committed the murder, which just seems unlikely.  And even though she said the guy's hoodie muffled his voice, I have very hard time believing she would not recognize her own son's voice, which is who she ended up saying she thought was the murderer.  Plus she said she got a look at him once, and she didn't add anything like "but it was really dark", so you'd think she would have recognized her son. 

But the son's theory about how after killing the husband, the mom walked a total of 45 minutes there-and-back to a lake to throw in the gun, then a few days later when she thought she was in the clear for the murder, she went back to the lake and retrieved the gun, just makes absolutely no sense.  And there also seemed to be something suspicious about the gun being found in her car after the son had some involvement with telling the cops about it.  And his alibi being watching Netflix and having the viewing history to prove it, only means that the TV was on Netflix, not that he was there watching it.  And thinking that she paid off law enforcement to get rid of the crime scene photos sounds a bit far-fetched.

I actually don't think either of them did it.

I saw it and my impression was very quickly in doubt of the wife’s contentions.  I’ve represented a lot of defendants in criminal trials before.  Not that I have any special ability, but to me, the wife was very sketchy.  It was basically what she said herself, without any input from the son that gave her away.  I think that’s why the state didn’t call son as a witness.  One major thing that seemed bogus to me is the story wife gave about what the killer said to her.  So, the killer is very intent on preventing wife from knowing his identity, HOWEVER, he gives her a story about details that help lead to his identity?  Totally, ridiculous.

 Of all the stories where a spouse is murdered in their bed and the other spouse is not also killed…..I can’t recall one where the surviving spouse was innocent.  It doesn’t make sense.  I get that a jury didn’t convict her.  Maybe, there wasn’t enough evidence….idk. A jury can get it wrong.  It sounds like that woman was a real piece of work.  Her husband surely knew that when he married her.  Sad situation.  Maybe, the son is better off with mom out of the country.  
 

The son seemed pretty credible to me, though he claimed he was not able to testify very well.  He tried to do what he was instructed like make eye contact, explain things concisely and he failed.  Well, there are a lot of people who aren’t good witnesses for various reasons.  Maybe, he is on the spectrum….idk.  I just found him much more credible than his mother.  The wife’s story that her son interacted with her with a gun and told a story about why he was murdering her husband and her NOT recognizing her son’s voice is preposterous to me, so I don’t believe he was there.  And, I don’t believe anyone told wife that story. 
 

There is the possibility that they conspired together, but I don’t think they were clever enough for that.  

Edited June 16, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[LuvMyShows]

Saw two of our old friends on Oxygen shows recently....Rod Demery from "Murder Chose Me" was on "Murdered By Morning"'s The Drama Club episode.  And "Exhumed: Killer Revealed" had Skip Arms leading the Loved to Death episode, after his many years as second fiddle to Joe Kenda on "Homicide Hunter".

On 6/14/2022 at 10:02 AM, Razzberry said:

I saw that one.  Priscilla was a piece of work.  Was glad to hear that Mary went on to live a successful life and overcame such awful beginnings. 

The one that I can't get over is the dead guy's sister.  She just seemed so blindly in denial about him.

[kathyk24]

Did anyone else watch People Magazine Investigates tonight? I don't know how Timmy was convicted when there was no physical evidence. I hope he sued the police for wrongful conviction.

[Annber03]

It's easy to get a conviction when you've got people so desperate to get someone in prison to show you're tough on crime/to ease the public's fear. That, and the fact that this is not an uncommon outcome for black suspects especially. That trial happened awfully fast.

I was amazed at how much time he wound up being sentenced for - I saw a "48 Hours" episode right before this one where a guy who'd molested and murdered an 11 year old girl might've only gotten seven years in prison (fortunately, they were able to give him a much longer sentence in the end, once they'd proved he'd committed a string of similar abuses among other children). Meanwhile, this guy gets at least sixty years, for a crime he didn't even commit. I'm so glad he didn't go for that deal of claiming guilt for the murder in order to go free. I'm glad he stuck to his guns and fought to make sure his record was completely cleared. I admired the resolve he showed while in prison - I mean, yeah, obviously you gotta hang on to some hope, some belief that the truth will come out, if only to keep your wits about you while stuck in prison, but...to keep up that attitude as long as he did would've been so tough, so the fact he could do that is very admirable, indeed.

That said, his whole thing about how he makes sure he's always on camera when out in public, and makes sure to keep his receipts from all the places he goes, so that he can have a record of where he was, just in case...that was heartbreaking. 

At this point I'd be stunned if they ever actually caught the real suspect in those robberies and murder, but I do hope they can figure out who did do it eventually, if only so that the people affected can have some definitive answers. 

[Vermicious Knid]

There are more than enough true crime stories that series don't need to keep covering the same ones. Most recent episode of Exhumed: Killer Revealed was about Judy Buenoano, which is such a distinct name I knew I'd seen it before. Not Forensic Files, I checked and it may have been Deadly Women. She was known as the Black Widow and she was convicted of killing a husband, her son, and attempting to kill her longterm boyfriend. There are also several other people she's suspected of killing once they stated looking into her history but couldn't prove. Became the first woman executed in Florida in 150 years.

ID is not waiting for the Murtaugh investigation to come to any conclusions, they already have rushed an entire series to broadcast, Murdaugh Murders: Deadly Dynasty,

[Minivanessa]

6 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

There are more than enough true crime stories that series don't need to keep covering the same ones. Most recent episode of Exhumed: Killer Revealed was about Judy Buenoano, which is such a distinct name I knew I'd seen it before. Not Forensic Files, I checked and it may have been Deadly Women. She was known as the Black Widow and she was convicted of killing a husband, her son, and attempting to kill her longterm boyfriend. There are also several other people she's suspected of killing once they stated looking into her history but couldn't prove. Became the first woman executed in Florida in 150 years.

Yes - that episode of Exhumed came on, I heard her name, and knew I'd heard the story before. A few minutes in, I began to remember the details. I was reading a good book anyway, so I turned off the TV because I just didn't want or need to see her extra horrific crimes dramatized again. In particular, what she did to her own son. **shiver**

[LuvMyShows]

22 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

There are more than enough true crime stories that series don't need to keep covering the same ones. Most recent episode of Exhumed: Killer Revealed was about Judy Buenoano, which is such a distinct name I knew I'd seen it before. Not Forensic Files, I checked and it may have been Deadly Women.

I had never seen this murder on any other franchises, and I was appalled, especially with what she did to her son.  I can't help but wonder what she was like in real life that had people so floored when they found out what she was really about.  But what surprised me, was hearing one of the talking heads say that one of the husbands had died of heart, lung, and kidney failure, which was consistent with natural causes.  WTAF?  Also, was surprised that a criminal mastermind, when going through all the effort to change her name, wouldn't be more creative than going from Goodyear to Buenoano!

[SunnyBeBe]

Does anyone know what state the case about the drowning child happened?  It’s on Accused: Guilty or Innocent on A&E.  For some reason, they keep avoiding showing the name of the court or state they are in.   

Edited June 24, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Andyourlittledog2]

18 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Does anyone know what state the case about the drowning child happened?  It’s on Accused: Guilty or Innocent on A&E.  For some reason, they keep avoiding showing the name of the court or state they are in.   

He was drowned in Florida's East River according to what I read.  I think all her crimes were in Florida because she was tried for them there.

[Schnickelfritz]

20 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Does anyone know what state the case about the drowning child happened?  It’s on Accused: Guilty or Innocent on A&E.  For some reason, they keep avoiding showing the name of the court or state they are in.   

It's Bessemer Alabama. Said at the very beginning of the episode when they played the 9-11 call.

[Andyourlittledog2]

He can't have been murdered in Alabama because she was tried and convicted of his murder in Florida. Every website I consulted said he drowned in Florida. She lived in Pensacola Florida during that time period. The series may have mentioned Alabama because that is where the murdered husband the ID series opened with was buried (he was from Alabama so was returned there for burial) but Buenoano/Goodyear was pretty continually in Florida. And each website said Michael drowned in the East River near Pensacola Florida. I'm gonna go with that. 🙂

[Schnickelfritz]

13 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

He can't have been murdered in Alabama because she was tried and convicted of his murder in Florida. Every website I consulted said he drowned in Florida. She lived in Pensacola Florida during that time period. The series may have mentioned Alabama because that is where the murdered husband the ID series opened with was buried (he was from Alabama so was returned there for burial) but Buenoano/Goodyear was pretty continually in Florida. And each website said Michael drowned in the East River near Pensacola Florida. I'm gonna go with that. 🙂

We're talking about 2 different cases. I answered the question about the newest episode of Accused: Guilty or Innocent. You are talking about Goodyear drowning her grown son.

[LuvMyShows]

On 6/21/2022 at 1:03 AM, Vermicious Knid said:

There are more than enough true crime stories that series don't need to keep covering the same ones.

The one I have probably seen the most, is Paige Birgfeld, and on every franchise, all the people who knew her keep talking about how everything she did was for her kids.  BS.  She wanted to keep living in the style she had been accustomed to, which included a ginormous house, so rather than sell the house and buy something smaller but still probably really nice, she took the "escorting" job that paid insanely well, but ended up getting her killed.  Plus since she was supermom during the day and either doing those three side hustles (that people thought could somehow pay for her huge house, since IIRC, the ex-husband had fallen on financial hard times and wasn't paying anywhere close to supporting the house) or always at the soccer games etc., then she must have been gone a lot at night, which is when the kids are eating dinner, doing homework, getting ready for bed, etc., so they must have been doing that a lot with the nanny. 

[SunnyBeBe]

19 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

He can't have been murdered in Alabama because she was tried and convicted of his murder in Florida. Every website I consulted said he drowned in Florida. She lived in Pensacola Florida during that time period. The series may have mentioned Alabama because that is where the murdered husband the ID series opened with was buried (he was from Alabama so was returned there for burial) but Buenoano/Goodyear was pretty continually in Florida. And each website said Michael drowned in the East River near Pensacola Florida. I'm gonna go with that. 🙂

I’ll have to check this one out.  I think the one I saw recently had a little girl who almost drowned, but was rescued and she has permanent disabilities.  

[Andyourlittledog2]

4 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

The one I have probably seen the most, is Paige Birgfeld, and on every franchise, all the people who knew her keep talking about how everything she did was for her kids.  BS.  She wanted to keep living in the style she had been accustomed to, which included a ginormous house, so rather than sell the house and buy something smaller but still probably really nice, she took the "escorting" job that paid insanely well, but ended up getting her killed.  Plus since she was supermom during the day and either doing those three side hustles (that people thought could somehow pay for her huge house, since IIRC, the ex-husband had fallen on financial hard times and wasn't paying anywhere close to supporting the house) or always at the soccer games etc., then she must have been gone a lot at night, which is when the kids are eating dinner, doing homework, getting ready for bed, etc., so they must have been doing that a lot with the nanny.

Thank you!!!!  That always makes me angry. There was no way to live that kind of lifestyle on her child support and side hustles but she absolutely refused to downsize so she escorted and it got her killed. So her kids now have no mom because mom was addicted to that upper middle stay at home mom lifestyle and she risked her life to keep it and lost. And screwed her kids over. She is no sainted mom her friends keep insisting she was. She didn't deserve to get killed but she took risks she shouldn't have for a stupid reason and her kids had little to do with it. Women who prostitute and escort because they have little choice I feel terrible for. Paige Birgfeld is not one of them.

5 hours ago, Schnickelfritz said:

We're talking about 2 different cases. I answered the question about the newest episode of Accused: Guilty or Innocent. You are talking about Goodyear drowning her grown son.

Sorry. We were just talking about Judy Buenoano so I thought the child in question was Michael, her son. The child you are talking about is apparently completely different.

[SunnyBeBe]

There are a lot of true crime shows right now.  I’m trying to keep up.  Plus, I’m watching some fiction crime shows too.  

[LuvMyShows]

Saw an old Dateline, and had forgotten how truly awful Angelina Rodriguez, the oleander poisoner, was.  She poisoned her husband; made up the most ridiculous and elaborate stories to try to shift the attention to this other guy, including falsifying evidence; ordered a hit from jail on her best friend while awaiting trail; and most heinously, tampered with her infant daughter's pacifier so she suffocated to death, benefitting from the life insurance on the infant, and suing the pacifier manufacturer for $700K.  She was sentenced to death, and I did a quick search and saw that she is still on death row.  Good riddance.

[Schnickelfritz]

20 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

On 6/24/2022 at 8:11 PM, Andyourlittledog2 said:

He can't have been murdered in Alabama because she was tried and convicted of his murder in Florida. Every website I consulted said he drowned in Florida. She lived in Pensacola Florida during that time period. The series may have mentioned Alabama because that is where the murdered husband the ID series opened with was buried (he was from Alabama so was returned there for burial) but Buenoano/Goodyear was pretty continually in Florida. And each website said Michael drowned in the East River near Pensacola Florida. I'm gonna go with that. 🙂

Expand  

I’ll have to check this one out.  I think the one I saw recently had a little girl who almost drowned, but was rescued and she has permanent disabilities.  

The girl almost drowning, having permanent disabilities (and the gentleman who was supposed to be watching her being charged) is Bessemer Alabama

[SunnyBeBe]

It did seem the sitter did lock the door and was being careful, when an older kid unlocked the door and the toddler went out, however, a jury could still have convicted him, if they felt he should have anticipated an older child could have done that and taken extra measures to prevent it.  He seemed very ignorant when refusing all plea deals.  His arrogance made me question his story towards the end.  My theory is that you never can be too careful with kids and pools. Also, why was there no fence with a lock around the pool?  My state requires it.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

10 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It did seem the sitter did lock the door and was being careful, when an older kid unlocked the door and the toddler went out, however, a jury could still have convicted him, if they felt he should have anticipated an older child could have done that and taken extra measures to prevent it.  He seemed very ignorant when refusing all plea deals.  His arrogance made me question his story towards the end.  My theory is that you never can be too careful with kids and pools. Also, why was there no fence with a lock around the pool?  My state requires it.  

Unfortunately, many states do not require a self-locking gate, or even a pool fence.   The only reason my HOA pool has a fence, and a self locking gate is because the insurance policy required it, and the top latch was done to keep little kids from opening the gate.   

[ApplesandPears]

On 6/13/2022 at 11:52 AM, LuvMyShows said:

Did anyone watch the People Investigates: Groene Family Massacre episode?  Unbearably horrifying.  This one will probably stick with me, for the unbelievable presence of mind of the then 8-year old daughter Shasta and how she dealt with her kidnapper.  Also, as weird as this sounds, I am glad the parents weren't alive to have to see whatever was on that video of the torturing of the son that was kidnapped with her.

Yes! I said the same thing. I was so glad the parents were not around. Shasta had to endure so much as a child because of a man who should have never been released.

[LuvMyShows]

Did anyone ever watch the show "Exhibit A - Secrets of Forensic Science"?  I think it was on True Crime Network (Justice Network) and it is from the late 1990s; I have found it for free on Amazon Prime.  The way they do the host of the show is so bizarre.  He appears on a monitor, often with just a close-up of his head, and often at a weird angle.  And he sometimes talks directly to the audience, or is a little taunting or something.  Of course the music is classic 90s, with sort of a mysterious noir-ish clarinet sound. And it's one of those shows where the re-enactments have no sound, so they are often either lamely acted or filmed in sort of a psychodelic trippy way.  Was curious to hear anyone else's thoughts on this show.

[SunnyBeBe]

3 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Did anyone ever watch the show "Exhibit A - Secrets of Forensic Science"?  I think it was on True Crime Network (Justice Network) and it is from the late 1990s; I have found it for free on Amazon Prime.  The way they do the host of the show is so bizarre.  He appears on a monitor, often with just a close-up of his head, and often at a weird angle.  And he sometimes talks directly to the audience, or is a little taunting or something.  Of course the music is classic 90s, with sort of a mysterious noir-ish clarinet sound. And it's one of those shows where the re-enactments have no sound, so they are often either lamely acted or filmed in sort of a psychodelic trippy way.  Was curious to hear anyone else's thoughts on this show.

No, I haven’t seen it. Sounds bizarre. Lol  I’ll keep my eyes open.  
 

Does the show about Dumb criminals still come on? Actually, I think it was I Almost Got Away With It.    This guy from NC, is reported to have robbed a bank in SC wearing a costume and when they found the costume discarded near the crime scene…..he had left his wallet inside!   🤣 Poor thing…..talk about a bad day.  
 

https://www.wral.com/cary-man-wanted-after-his-wallet-id-found-near-scene-of-sc-bank-robbery/20353837/

Edited June 30, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[LuvMyShows]

On 6/29/2022 at 5:52 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Did anyone ever watch the show "Exhibit A - Secrets of Forensic Science"? 

Quoting myself because now that I've watched 2 seasons so far (there's 5 on Prime), I can recommend watching it for a few reasons.  First, since the show is Canadian, all the crimes are 'new' in the sense that we haven't seen them on a bunch of other franchises.  Second, all the crimes are solved by forensics, so it's kind of cool to learn about that.  Third, not all the crimes are murder, which is a nice variety.  And finally, the shows are only 30 minutes, so you can plow through them pretty easily.

[Vermicious Knid]

There were a few FF episodes that weren't about murders. Without checking the list, I remember the episodes identifying Legionnaires Disease and the stachybotrys mold house. I keep hoping FF II will do one.

[LuvMyShows]

On 6/26/2022 at 1:35 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

It did seem the sitter did lock the door and was being careful, when an older kid unlocked the door and the toddler went out, however, a jury could still have convicted him, if they felt he should have anticipated an older child could have done that and taken extra measures to prevent it.  He seemed very ignorant when refusing all plea deals.  His arrogance made me question his story towards the end.  My theory is that you never can be too careful with kids and pools. Also, why was there no fence with a lock around the pool?  My state requires it.  

This whole thing was weird.  There were two adults present at the time -- him and the child's grandmother.  The grandmother was holding the baby, but given what he was being charged with, holding a baby doesn't absolve her either.  And both of them saw the two older kids playing on the porch, so both of them would have known that the door had been unlocked at that point.  So I couldn't figure out why he was charged and she wasn't. 

I had never before thought about the level of vigilance that would be required with a pool that doesn't have some sort of way to lock kids out.  You would have to ALWAYS make sure that no one EVER came into the house or left it, without using whatever double-locking situation the house has, even for a second (like if you're bringing in groceries from the car).  And you would have to supervise every second of outdoor play.  Seems basically impossible.

I did understand his reason for rejecting the first plea deal, since it required him to say he was guilty of something he vehemently said he wasn't.  But when he started having issues with the second plea that required him to admit giving a false statement to the police, which is something he damn sure did by his own admission, then what on earth was he objecting to?

[LuvMyShows]

On 6/23/2022 at 9:52 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Does anyone know what state the case about the drowning child happened?  It’s on Accused: Guilty or Innocent on A&E.  For some reason, they keep avoiding showing the name of the court or state they are in.   

I had forgotten all about that show until about a month ago, and I've been catching up on the season 2 and 3 episodes.  And wow, I had definitely forgotten how compelling it is -- suspenseful, heartbreaking, tragic, sometimes unreal.  It is so different from the vast majority of shows, which are murders that occurred years ago and have already been documented, digested, publicized, etc., and almost seem commonplace. 

This show is behind-the-scenes as it evolves and gets very emotional.  Sometimes I cannot believe charges were even brought.  And just being charged, even if eventually found innocent, destroys some people's lives, because they can't get work due to being under a cloud of suspicion or they are unable to travel while out on bail and need to for work, to say nothing of the havoc it wreaks on their personal life with people thinking they're guilty. 

It's also amazing, and pathetic, how little investigative work is often done by the police departments so it falls to the accused to hire private investigators or hope they have competent and inquisitive lawyers who will gather evidence to prove their innocence.  In one, a neighbor had an outdoor camera, which ended up having essential video camera footage, but the police never even asked them about it.  I also think it's interesting how several of them have done a mock trial, going so far as to hold it in an actual courthouse with a retired judge, to see how the accused will do under that pressure, to help either decide if the accused should testify or not, or to help them keep their emotions under control when they do testify.

Two episodes so far stand out to me.  One was Rebecca Hogue, accused of "failure to protect" for having left her baby in the care of her boyfriend, who ended up killing the child.  It was absolutely heart-wrenching, and it was ridiculous to have even charged her.  Even the officers involved in her case didn't think she should be tried, but the DA insisted.  She was found guilty and sentenced by the jury to life in prison with the possibility of parole.  But something was filed to disagree with the jury's sentence, and it was reduced to 16 months in jail, one month for every year she would have been legally responsible for her son.  I actually cried when they announced the reduced sentence; it had been such an injustice.

The other episode concerned an older white man who shot and killed his absolutely horrific neighbor who had been terrorizing the neighborhood for years and made everyone's life a dangerous living hell.  The problem is that the bad guy was running away from the dude when he shot him.  Clearly, the bad guy didn't pose a threat to the dude at that point, so his action was against the law.  This dude never really owned up to the fact that he did anything wrong, and that's what made it problematic for me.  But good lord, the police had done absolutely nothing to help protect these poor people in the neighborhood, so I really, really sympathized with the dude.  But still, his actions were not OK.  It made me wish they could have convicted him, and then just given him a suspended sentence.   

[badhaggis]

9 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I had forgotten all about that show until about a month ago, and I've been catching up on the season 2 and 3 episodes.  And wow, I had definitely forgotten how compelling it is -- suspenseful, heartbreaking, tragic, sometimes unreal.  It is so different from the vast majority of shows, which are murders that occurred years ago and have already been documented, digested, publicized, etc., and almost seem commonplace. 

This show is behind-the-scenes as it evolves and gets very emotional.  Sometimes I cannot believe charges were even brought.  And just being charged, even if eventually found innocent, destroys some people's lives, because they can't get work due to being under a cloud of suspicion or they are unable to travel while out on bail and need to for work, to say nothing of the havoc it wreaks on their personal life with people thinking they're guilty. 

It's also amazing, and pathetic, how little investigative work is often done by the police departments so it falls to the accused to hire private investigators or hope they have competent and inquisitive lawyers who will gather evidence to prove their innocence.  In one, a neighbor had an outdoor camera, which ended up having essential video camera footage, but the police never even asked them about it.  I also think it's interesting how several of them have done a mock trial, going so far as to hold it in an actual courthouse with a retired judge, to see how the accused will do under that pressure, to help either decide if the accused should testify or not, or to help them keep their emotions under control when they do testify.

Two episodes so far stand out to me.  One was Rebecca Hogue, accused of "failure to protect" for having left her baby in the care of her boyfriend, who ended up killing the child.  It was absolutely heart-wrenching, and it was ridiculous to have even charged her.  Even the officers involved in her case didn't think she should be tried, but the DA insisted.  She was found guilty and sentenced by the jury to life in prison with the possibility of parole.  But something was filed to disagree with the jury's sentence, and it was reduced to 16 months in jail, one month for every year she would have been legally responsible for her son.  I actually cried when they announced the reduced sentence; it had been such an injustice.

The other episode concerned an older white man who shot and killed his absolutely horrific neighbor who had been terrorizing the neighborhood for years and made everyone's life a dangerous living hell.  The problem is that the bad guy was running away from the dude when he shot him.  Clearly, the bad guy didn't pose a threat to the dude at that point, so his action was against the law.  This dude never really owned up to the fact that he did anything wrong, and that's what made it problematic for me.  But good lord, the police had done absolutely nothing to help protect these poor people in the neighborhood, so I really, really sympathized with the dude.  But still, his actions were not OK.  It made me wish they could have convicted him, and then just given him a suspended sentence.   

The Rebecca Hogue case absolutely infuriated me. The judge threw out the majority of her case. Including her boyfriend's suicide message where he expressed his guilt. Of course she was found guilty. The trial really seemed unfair. I agree my heart broke for her.

[SunnyBeBe]

I hade a different take on the case where the mother left her young child with her boyfriend who abused him and caused his death.  She was aware of the man’s anger and had looked up on line about child abuse signs before the death….so she knew.  Still, she left her son in his care, after seeing multiple unexplained bruises on the child.  It’s her job to protect and she ignored clear signs of abuse.  So, to me, she was also guilty in aiding in his death.  Her background was sad, but it’s not justification, imo.  

[LexieLily]

Homicide Hunter: Hot on the Trail: is it an all new series or it is just repackaged episodes of Homicide Hunter?

[andromeda331]

55 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Homicide Hunter: Hot on the Trail: is it an all new series or it is just repackaged episodes of Homicide Hunter?

No, it's just repackaged old episodes. My dad and I watched the marathon yesterday.  

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

No, it's just repackaged old episodes. My dad and I watched the marathon yesterday.  

Aw, darn! 

[Vermicious Knid]

I'm really sick of how much airtime these shows waste, first going through a whole set up on the case before the episode begins and then 'coming up' before each commercial, giving you information that will be shown in another 4 minutes anyway. Just stop. It's 2-3 minutes they could use for actual content.

Riverside County, CA issued it's report on social services failing the Turpin children yesterday.
 

Quote

The eight-month probe was commissioned in response to an investigation by ABC News as part of the Diane Sawyer 20/20 special, "Escape From A House of Horror," that aired last November, in which two of the Turpin siblings spoke out for the first time about the challenges and hardships they have faced in the years since sheriff's deputies rescued them from a life of home imprisonment....

Investigators were tasked with both probing the concerns raised with the Turpin case, and examining the overall social service system in Riverside County -- the tenth largest county in the nation, whose $1 billion Department of Public Social Services provides services to nearly one million people annually....

In its analysis of the various departments within the county’s social services structure, the report paints a portrait of system run by staff who are plagued by "inadequate compensation, overwhelming caseloads, and insufficient support."

In the child services division, for example, high staff turnover and vacancy rates of approximately 40% have "reached a crisis point," the report said. But the entire section of the report detailing the youngest Turpin siblings' experiences in the that division was redacted, likely due to strict confidentiality laws that govern records surrounding minors....

Notably, investigators found that none of the funds donated to the Turpin siblings after the story of their escape and rescue made worldwide headlines in 2018 were improperly spent. However, it did find that a large portion of those funds remained unspent, and the failure to do so "may have resulted in food and housing insecurity for at least some of the Turpin siblings."

Investigators questioned why the public guardian -- the court-appointed conservator responsible for aiding the adult siblings in making decisions regarding their finances, health care, and overall well-being -- did not distribute those funds, and noted that the accountings of those funds were often "filed years past the due date."

Separately, while the report mostly discussed those donations raised by the public in the wake of the siblings' rescue in 2018, investigators also questioned why the public guardian did not make an effort "until recently" to obtain a separate set of nearly $1,000,000 in donations from the public raised by the JAYC Foundation after the 20/20 report aired in November. A spokesperson for The JAYC Foundation said in a statement to ABC News Friday that for its part, the foundation "has indeed begun disbursing funds to Turpin siblings."

[SunnyBeBe]

I was shocked that I actually agreed with a Not Guilty based on mental disturbance on the recent case on Accused: Guilty or Innocent.   The loving husband and father who had been taking care of his terminally ill wife who was suffering in pain, went into a trance state and stabbed her many times until she died. He then tried to kill himself, but failed.  I normally call that bogus, but after watching the evidence…..I agreed.  The defense had a great expert witness who explained how the defendant had encephalitis prior to the incident and how that affects the brain and personality. Also, the state’s expert witness could not refute the defense’s claims.  It was an interesting trial.  Also, the defendant was credible.  He seemed actually not guilty.  I didn’t understand why the family didn’t get Hospice involved to help address the wife’s pain.  She had only a couple of months left to live.    

[auntjess]

I just watched a repeat of Where Murder Lies, on ID, about the girl Francine Stepp who killed her parents, who not only were very controlling, they forced her to join in their nudist life style.
OK, she should have done time, but no way is a life term fair.  
Anyone else watch this?

[LuvMyShows]

Another Kenda alum sighting!  Previously having seen Skip Arms (on Exhumed?), the Colorado Springs Police Dept. lieutenant who was involved a lot on Homicide Hunter , I was watching Murdered By Morning "The Night Shift" and heard a familiar voice.  It was Ann Ervin, the former TV reporter who did a lot of the non-police commentary on Homicide Hunter. 

[LuvMyShows]

Did anyone watch the last two episodes of ABC's "Who Do You Believe?".  On "Kill Thy Neighbor" I definitely believe that the murdered guy Marc was not the sparkling "family man" that his brother kept trying to paint him as.  The brother did admit something vague about how Marc had made bad choices in the past, but was overcoming that now, or something like that.  But I believe that Marc's cars and junk did sprawl over into the two vacant lots and onto Chaz's property, and that Marc was running a chop shop. (It was confusing cause I couldn't tell what was actual pictures and what was re-creations, except for the video of Marc's dogs at Chaz's back door which was narrated by Chaz). And I think the neighbor woman who weirdly worded about how she hadn't noticed the sprawling junk, was either lying or delusional.  And I think Marc was probably an a**hole who was uncooperative AF about the junk, cars, etc.  But...I don't think he was a bully overall, I'm not sure that Marc is the one who put the dead rat on Chaz's doorstep, and I don't think that Chaz's life was in danger when he shot and killed Marc.  Marc's brother kept saying how two of the shots were into Marc's back, but the shot distribution was never explained by anyone else, and I would have liked to hear about that. I feel bad for Chaz's situation, but I do think he literally got away with murder. 

On "Dad's Deadly Deeds", I think that the dad did commit those murders but I'm not sure there was enough proof to have convicted him.  I don't think that the timing of the murder of the grandmother and friend was co-incidental, and I think that the daughter Jordynn has blinders on about her dad.  She also commented as fact about some household relations things regarding when her mom was still alive and shortly thereafter, that she simply would not have remembered so vividly from age 4; she must be reflecting things that she had heard her dad say.  However....I wanted to slap that detective when he defended the decision to not investigate ANY of the crime solver tips by saying that they are usually unreliable...and I LOVED it when the producer followed up by asking him if those tips had ever been useful to him in the past and he admitted that one of those tips once solved a case.

Anyway, I really hope the show gets picked up for another season.

[LuvMyShows]

On 7/13/2022 at 11:11 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I was shocked that I actually agreed with a Not Guilty based on mental disturbance on the recent case on Accused: Guilty or Innocent.  

Totally agree.  But just to be precise, he was not found Not Guilty...he was found "Guilty Except for Insanity".  He could have been sent to a mental hospital for evaluation, and then whatever occurred based on that, but the judge indicated that Mike didn't need any care, supervision, or treatment...I definitely teared up when I saw that.

[SunnyBeBe]

15 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

Totally agree.  But just to be precise, he was not found Not Guilty...he was found "Guilty Except for Insanity".  He could have been sent to a mental hospital for evaluation, and then whatever occurred based on that, but the judge indicated that Mike didn't need any care, supervision, or treatment...I definitely teared up when I saw that.

Here’s an article on it.  I wonder why the wife’s family was upset the defense witnesses disparaged the wife….I heard nothing negative about her. All of it was good.  Hmmm…

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2022/01/clackamas-county-jury-verdict-spares-lake-oswego-man-prison-time-in-killing-of-terminally-ill-wife.html

Edited July 20, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m going to try to catch up on Accused: Guilty or Innocent.  It’s my favorite series right now on true crime.

[Vermicious Knid]

Anyone catch the latest Murdered by Morning? Sorority girl raped and murdered in 1984 Dallas. They had semen but at the time tests could only show secreter or non-secreter. The lab was foresighted enough to carefully preserve the evidence, knowing there could be technology available in the future that would show more. 2006, Dallas creates a cold case squad and this is one of the first cases examined. The semen was available and DNA test gave them clear results. Match pops up on CODIS right away, a man already serving life for sexual assault. He was never on their radar, completely not connected to the original investigation. Nobody had any idea he had committed a murder. It was a true stranger attack, which is pretty rare, according to this article less than 10% of the murders in the US. My major quibble is we don't get this information until like, the last 5 minutes of the program. So most of it was spent on questions that don't go anywhere. It would have been much better as a half hour Forensic Files.