S02.E10: Intimacy

[Snarklepuss]

The other two couples were such a turn-off for me. Over and over Jaclyn would SAY how she's blushing because she's attracted to Ryan and how they have fixed their problems from last week, but it just sounds like words. I don't believe she feels it. She does not want to be the one to fail (i.e. divorce), so she's doing everything to convince herself that he's such a catch. Ryan R, on the other hand, came closer to revealing his real feelings but backed off, so that at the end he was phony smiling and acting like they'd made this giant leap to solving all their problems and living happily ever after. He does not know how to come out and say she's not the right person for him. But you can see it. And by the way producers...could you make it any plainer you are manipulating these people by having Jaclyn "fall" into Ryan's arms? Oohh, big strong Ryan caught little petite Jaclyn and now she's going to realize he's the man and she is the woman.

 

ITA.  Everyone (including the experts) say that Sean and Davina need to get out of their heads - Well I think Jaclyn is perpetually stuck in her head too.  Because she wants a relationship SO BAD she is rationalizing that Ryan is the guy for her and therefore goes ahead with everything she wants that goes along with that, including sex, etc.  Ryan is so afraid he'll hurt Jaclyn's feelings if he levels with her but I agree with you that she has convinced herself that she has feelings for him because she wants a relationship so bad.  I think Ryan senses this and doesn't operate that way - He needs to have feelings for her first before getting on board with pursuing everything that goes along with a real relationship.  I think Jaclyn is a thinking type (per the Myers Briggs definition) and Ryan is a feeling type, BTW.

[SaucyMommy]

I worry about the cat.

 

I don't worry about the couples. They're done. Even Jaclyn and Ryan Basement. I don't believe in any of them any more. 

Save the pussy cat! Save the kitty!

[mamey2422]

I wonder why Dr. Logan presented Jessica/Ryan and Davina/Sean with their wedding albums but not Jaclyn/Ryan. It was such a big reveal for the other two. I don't think I missed that. That's strange.

[Snarklepuss]

I wonder why Dr. Logan presented Jessica/Ryan and Davina/Sean with their wedding albums but not Jaclyn/Ryan. It was such a big reveal for the other two. I don't think I missed that. That's strange.

 

Yeah, now that you mention it, I didn't see that either.  Maybe because Jaclyn had such a long puss on her face through most of the wedding and the photos reflected that, LOL.

[JapMo]

 

ITA.  Everyone (including the experts) say that Sean and Davina need to get out of their heads - Well I think Jaclyn is perpetually stuck in her head too.  Because she wants a relationship SO BAD she is rationalizing that Ryan is the guy for her and therefore goes ahead with everything she wants that goes along with that, including sex, etc.  Ryan is so afraid he'll hurt Jaclyn's feelings if he levels with her but I agree with you that she has convinced herself that she has feelings for him because she wants a relationship so bad.  I think Ryan senses this and doesn't operate that way - He needs to have feelings for her first before getting on board with pursuing everything that goes along with a real relationship.  I think Jaclyn is a thinking type (per the Myers Briggs definition) and Ryan is a feeling type, BTW.

 

She's an "in your face" gal. When she sensed he was backing off, she must have blew up. The way she described that she became so angry at the thought that he might not be attracted to her, you could see she wasn't just angry...she was furious. I think both got in it for the right reasons and not because they want to be a TV star, but I also think Jaclyn is absolutely determined no to come off looking bad. And bad to her is being the couple who decides to divorce. That's why she is doing everything she can to convince US and HERSELF that he's the right guy for her. Ryan wants to be honest, and even though he can't express it verbally...by not having sex with her I think he's making a statement. He had a lame excuse for pulling back because he was supposedly homesick. Now his lame excuse for not having sex is because he doesn't feel a connection to her yet. While it's admirable, I don't know many guys who would admit that on national TV. You've said she's a smotherer and I agree. She's a totally cool person but it's become a contest to her. She's not listening to what her heart is telling her.

[BunnySlippers]

ITA.  Everyone (including the experts) say that Sean and Davina need to get out of their heads - Well I think Jaclyn is perpetually stuck in her head too.  Because she wants a relationship SO BAD she is rationalizing that Ryan is the guy for her and therefore goes ahead with everything she wants that goes along with that, including sex, etc.  Ryan is so afraid he'll hurt Jaclyn's feelings if he levels with her but I agree with you that she has convinced herself that she has feelings for him because she wants a relationship so bad.  I think Ryan senses this and doesn't operate that way - He needs to have feelings for her first before getting on board with pursuing everything that goes along with a real relationship.  I think Jaclyn is a thinking type (per the Myers Briggs definition) and Ryan is a feeling type, BTW.

 

I disagree about Jaclyn. When Ryan pulled back, and she got confused and hurt, she was ready to put her walls back up, part ways at the end of the experiment, and come out of this whole thing as friends instead of a married couple. She said so herself.

 

Edited May 20, 2015 by BunnySlippers

[Snarklepuss]

I disagree about Jaclyn. When Ryan pulled back, and she got confused and hurt, she was ready to put her walls back up, part ways at the end of the experiment, and come out of this whole thing as friends instead of a married couple. She said so herself.

 

 

Speaking as a feeling type myself, I could never do that.  When I have feelings for someone, I have feelings, for better or worse.  They don't change so easily because a switch flips in my head because someone rejects me.  It would take me some time to recover and realize in my heart that it's not worth pining over.  What Jaclyn said seems very alien to me.....And I get the feeling it's alien to Ryan as well.  It seems to come from someone who can cut themselves off from or change their feelings based on more rational criteria in their minds.  She just seems very driven by her thinking side as opposed to feelings.  In another post on the Jaclyn/Ryan thread I said that she allows herself to have feelings based on what she convinces herself of on a rational level.  If someone seems to reject her, sure she will be hurt but then her rational side will just flip the emotions off and go on in the "friend zone".  Again, I could never do that in 10 million years.  If I were in love with Ryan and he rejected me I don't know if I could just go back to the "friend zone" so easily.  I am not 100% lead around by my feelings in absence of my rational side but feelings tend to be more dominant in me and she would not be me ever.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[Happenings12]

 I think he's a narcissist.

 

About Sean being a player, I think he himself said something like that in the beginning, before they were matched.

 

Exactly! I was taken aback by that stupid comment from him. He either doesn't understand how women want to be talked to or he doesn't care.

 

He didn't know. This guy isn't narcastic or a player. He's someone who doesn't have a clue what he's doing. The experts said he started late in life when it came to relationships probably because he grew up nerdy (Hence the bullying) and is so out of his element when it comes to women he comes off like another poster said as an alien pretending to be human. I'd bet vital parts of my anatamy that that woman he knocked up was one of the first real "relationships" he ever had and only then because of the baby. The guy hasn't got a clue how to act around the opposite sex. Notice he didn't have that problem with the guy friend. More fuel for the gay rumors but I don't buy that line of thought quite yet. Sean saying he is a player and that Chris Grey comment only proves how out of his element he really is. He's trying to cover up for his lack of experience and is failing miserably IMO.

 

 

I think I'm pretty damn cool and I haven't been in a relationship for that long. I don't have any bones in my closet or any traumatic reasons for being single for so long, it's been my choice. I'm just happy with my life the way it is with no attachments. I have a huge support system of family and friends and I finally realized I like being a very social/outgoing person who then goes home alone. 

 

NOT saying that's Jaclyn's story, just saying being a women who hasn't been in a relationship for almost a decade doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with you.

 

I didn't mean any woman WHO CHOOSES to be alone has something wrong with them. But you aren't/weren't so desperate to get married you go on a show like this to find a husband. Jaclyn didn't really choose/prefer to be alone. At some point if you have to give up looking for the perfect significant other cause you keep finding zeroes, it might be time to look in the mirror and realize the common denominator here is you.

[Snarklepuss]

He didn't know. This guy isn't narcastic or a player. He's someone who doesn't have a clue what he's doing. The experts said he started late in life when it came to relationships probably because he grew up nerdy (Hence the bullying) and is so out of his element when it comes to women he comes off like another poster said as an alien pretending to be human. I'd bet vital parts of my anatamy that that woman he knocked up was one of the first real "relationships" he ever had and only then because of the baby. The guy hasn't got a clue how to act around the opposite sex. Notice he didn't have that problem with the guy friend. More fuel for the gay rumors but I don't buy that line of thought quite yet. Sean saying he is a player and that Chris Grey comment only proves how out of his element he really is. He's trying to cover up for his lack of experience and is failing miserably IMO.

 

I thought it was known that the woman he impregnated was just a hook up, not a relationship, and that's one of the justifications for why he was able to get over it so fast as to be on a reality show where he gets married in only a few months (and convinces the experts of his readiness too).  I.e., emotional investment = zero.

 

Then again, this is not directed at you but why is it assumed that just because a guy has sex with a lot of women he "has a clue" about women?  Because IMO it's usually the other way around.  If a guy has a clue about women he doesn't need to have one night stands and advertise himself for hook ups.  A guy with a clue about women has a full fledged real relationship because he knows how to keep women happy.  Usually it's the putz's that have no finesse with women that do the anonymous hook ups in my experience.  True "ladies men" are a different animal, IMHO.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[BunnySlippers]

Speaking as a feeling type myself, I could never do that.  When I have feelings for someone, I have feelings, for better or worse.  They don't change so easily because a switch flips in my head because someone rejects me.  It would take me some time to recover and realize in my heart that it's not worth pining over.  What Jaclyn said seems very alien to me.....And I get the feeling it's alien to Ryan as well.  It seems to come from someone who can cut themselves off from or change their feelings based on more rational criteria in their minds.  She just seems very driven by her thinking side as opposed to feelings.  In another post on the Jaclyn/Ryan thread I said that she allows herself to have feelings based on what she convinces herself of on a rational level.  If someone seems to reject her, sure she will be hurt but then her rational side will just flip the emotions off and go on in the "friend zone".  Again, I could never do that in 10 million years.  If I were in love with Ryan and he rejected me I don't know if I could just go back to the "friend zone" so easily.  I am not 100% lead around by my feelings in absence of my rational side but feelings tend to be more dominant in me and she would not be me ever.

 

Yes, she seems like a very rational person, but she never said that she was in love with Ryan. In a long relationship, with a lot of history and deep love on her part, maybe she couldn't just flip that switch so easily. And we don't know if, even if she says that they can just be friends, it wouldn't hurt her deep inside. There's a lot we don't know about these people and a lot of conversations/events we don't get to see.

 

But as rational as she can be, I don't think that she's been trying to convince herself that Ryan was the guy for her just because she's desperate to be in a relationship. If that were the case, I don't think that she would be willing to walk away so easily. I do think that she came to like him, and she thought it was sincere on his part when he "proposed" to her in the kitchen. She thought he wanted the same thing as she, and she let herself fall for him. But they've only known each other for a few weeks, so once she got hurt, she pulled back and tried to turn those feelings off. Yes, some people couldn't do that. But there are people who can. We are all different.

 

I do think that she would do much better with a guy who had a similar temperament to hers.

Edited May 20, 2015 by BunnySlippers

[mla40]

Well, my DVR had some sense of decency and rational judgment last night, since it did not record this episode (I think because the show title was slightly different, but still, better than I would've done).  So I was spared from even having to ff through this clusterfuck.

My DVR is a dirty whore and recorded this episode 3 times!!

[Snarklepuss]

Yes, she seems like a very rational person, but she never said that she was in love with Ryan. In a long relationship, with a lot of history and deep love on her part, maybe she couldn't just flip that switch so easily. And we don't know if, even if she says that they can just be friends, it wouldn't hurt her deep inside. There's a lot we don't know about these people and a lot of conversations/events we don't get to see.

 

But as rational as she can be, I don't think that she's been trying to convince herself that Ryan was the guy for her just because she's desperate to be in a relationship. If that were the case, I don't think that she would be willing to walk away so easily. I do think that she came to like him, and she thought it was sincere on his part when he "proposed" to her in the kitchen. She thought he wanted the same thing as she, and she let herself fall for him. But they've only known each other for a few weeks, so once she got hurt, she pulled back and tried to turn those feelings off. Yes, some people couldn't do that. But there are people who can. We are all different.

 

I do think that she would do much better with a guy who had a similar temperament to hers.

 

If I were in a relationship with a guy in which I was envisioning spending my life with him, having his babies and doing all that Jaclyn seems to have suddenly been "ready" for with Ryan, I would not be able to flip a switch and change my feelings that easily.  Never mind being in love, what about those things?  If I have feelings for someone, I have feelings.  So what is it with her?  If she really was all that into him as to talk about having his kids and being invested in making the relationship work, why is she OK with just packing it in and moving on in the "friend zone" if he isn't into pursuing those things with her?  I think she is desperate for a relationship but not if it goes against her rational side which says that she should just back off and put the feelings away if the guy's not interested.  Also, I think she has been forcing herself to have feelings for Ryan that she really doesn't have.  If I were desperate for a relationship and truly into a guy it wouldn't matter how the guy felt I would not be able to flip that switch and get over him so fast.  She, however, being a thinking type can probably do that much easier even if she were desperate.  Her rational side would tell her there's no sense in moving forward no matter how desperate she is.  Obviously what choice does she really have in that case?  He's made it for her.  But I personally think it's easier for her partly because of her rationalizing herself into being more into Ryan than she really is.

 

Jaclyn's desperation consists in trying to make a relationship work when they are clearly not clicking on many levels.  If he has put on the brakes so fast it shows me he was NEVER clicking with Jaclyn as much as she may have been deluding herself that he was and missing all the signals that to me would probably have been clear.  And BTW, if she isn't "in love" with him why is she even talking about babies and envisioning a future with Ryan, etc.?  I would think that should come first but what do I know?  Again, I think she has done a fair amount of convincing herself that she is into Ryan far more than she really is.  To me and others I've read on this board it all seems so forced.  I don't think she is as self aware as she wants herself and the world to believe she is.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[Happenings12]

I thought it was known that the woman he impregnated was just a hook up, not a relationship, and that's one of the justifications for why he was able to get over it so fast as to be on a reality show where he gets married in only a few months (and convinces the experts of his readiness too).  I.e., emotional investment = zero.

 

Then again, this is not directed at you but why is it assumed that just because a guy has sex with a lot of women he "has a clue" about women?  Because IMO it's usually the other way around.  If a guy has a clue about women he doesn't need to have one night stands and advertise himself for hook ups.  A guy with a clue about women has a full fledged real relationship because he knows how to keep women happy.  Usually it's the putz's that have no finesse with women that do the anonymous hook ups in my experience.  True "ladies men" are a different animal, IMHO.

 

NO, I mean after the hookup. I think she probably moved on him, they hooked up and then during her pregnancy that was the longest amount of time he's spent with a woman. Ok, maybe I'm exagertating a little but I doubt he's had more than a handful of relationships prior to that hook up. He just seems to lack the know how to be around the opposite sex. Again that might be more fuel for the gay stuff as well.

I'd think a guy who was able to persuade women to drop their pants in enough numbers to qualify as a womanizer knows how to sweet talk a woman. He might not know or care how she feels, wants, etc...but he knows how to talk TO her or should. Sean has yet to show me that ability thus far. All IMO of course.

 

 

EDIT: I think my perspective might be colored by a co-worker/friend who reminds me of Sean. He was a real religious person the early part of his life and refused to really seriously date anyone cause "God would provide him with a wife when the time was right." At some point he "lost his religion" (don't know why) and subsequently started dating. he was so behind the 8-ball at that point it was comically sad. Put a bag over Sean's head and disguise the voice (The guy I know has a deeper voice) and it's like watching a replay of that friend starting out in the dating world. It took him a good long while to find his stride but he got there.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Happenings12

[cardigirl]

Jessica's cat perched on the shelf or where ever is a great example of why I find cats so creepy. The Sushi place is benefitting from the Ryan/Jess relationship.

 If that had been my cat, he would have been all over that sushi.  No way could I have left a trail of raw fish to the bedroom and have it still be there when Ryan walked in.   

Edited May 20, 2015 by cardigirl

[Snarklepuss]

NO, I mean after the hookup. I think she probably moved on him, they hooked up and then during her pregnancy that was the longest amount of time he's spent with a woman. Ok, maybe I'm exagertating a little but I doubt he's had more than a handful of relationships prior to that hook up. He just seems to lack the know how to be around the opposite sex. Again that might be more fuel for the gay stuff as well.

I'd think a guy who was able to persuade women to drop their pants in enough numbers to qualify as a womanizer knows how to sweet talk a woman. He might not know or care how she feels, wants, etc...but he knows how to talk TO her or should. Sean has yet to show me that ability thus far. All IMO of course.

 

I think Sean knows how to get what he wants.  I guess I don't think it takes much ability with the opposite sex to find a hook up.  When a guy wants sex he can turn on the charm.  There are plenty of people on the internet ready to hook up for any reason, finesse and persuasiveness not that necessary.  Sexual attraction can overcome all of that.  I think Sean is looking like more of a putz with Davina because he's outside his comfort zone with her - There are far more demands emotionally with her that he's not cut out for and he's feeling very weak and in over his head.  When he's operating as Mr. "let's have sex" he is in his comfort zone and can feel more like Mr. Stud in his mind (and probably comes off that way too).  Just my hunch.

[trashjunkie]

"I'm a very sexual person" is one of the most meaningless cop-out lines ever.  It's a huge pet peeve of mine when people say that.

 

But to top it off with "I'm Christian Grey sexual"?  Vommmmmiiiiiiiitttttttttt.

[BunnySlippers]

If I were in a relationship with a guy in which I was envisioning spending my life with him, having his babies and doing all that Jaclyn seems to have suddenly been "ready" for with Ryan, I would not be able to flip a switch and change my feelings that easily.  Never mind being in love, what about those things?  If I have feelings for someone, I have feelings.  So what is it with her?  If she really was all that into him as to talk about having his kids and being invested in making the relationship work, why is she OK with just packing it in and moving on in the "friend zone" if he isn't into pursuing those things with her?  I think she is desperate for a relationship but not if it goes against her rational side which says that she should just back off and put the feelings away if the guy's not interested.  Also, I think she has been forcing herself to have feelings for Ryan that she really doesn't have.  If I were desperate for a relationship and truly into a guy it wouldn't matter how the guy felt I would not be able to flip that switch and get over him so fast.  She, however, being a thinking type can probably do that much easier even if she were desperate.  Her rational side would tell her there's no sense in moving forward no matter how desperate she is.  Obviously what choice does she really have in that case?  He's made it for her.  But I personally think it's easier for her partly because of her rationalizing herself into being more into Ryan than she really is.

 

Jaclyn's desperation consists in trying to make a relationship work when they are clearly not clicking on many levels.  If he has put on the brakes so fast it shows me he was NEVER clicking with Jaclyn as much as she may have been deluding herself that he was and missing all the signals that to me would probably have been clear.  And BTW, if she isn't "in love" with him why is she even talking about babies and envisioning a future with Ryan, etc.?  I would think that should come first but what do I know?  Again, I think she has done a fair amount of convincing herself that she is into Ryan far more than she really is.  To me and others I've read on this board it all seems so forced.  I don't think she is as self aware as she wants herself and the world to believe she is.

 

It's not like she wants to have his babies right away. That topic came up when her family/friends visited, and when he said that he wanted to wait until he's 35, that raised red flags for her, because she doesn't want to wait that long. I think it's perfectly legitimate to discuss the issue of having kids before you decide whether you want to get married or stay married to a person. When I was single, I didn't want to marry someone who didn't want kids or who only wanted one child. I wanted 2, maybe 3 kids. That was an important issue for me, and the man I married had the same feelings.

 

"If she really was all that into him as to talk about having his kids and being invested in making the relationship work, why is she OK with just packing it in and moving on in the "friend zone" if he isn't into pursuing those things with her?"

 

What else can she do? If he doesn't want her, then what can she do? I do see your point, and I know that when she said that, I was a little surprised, but I think he really hurt her and made her insecure when he pulled back after they'd had sex. So she tried to steel herself and turn her feelings off. I respect that you couldn't do that, but to tell the truth, I'm one of those rational people who could. Not with my husband, of course, to whom I've been married for many, many years, but with a new partner? Yes. I could, to protect myself and my own feelings.

 

I actually thought that it was very mature of her to say that they could be friends if he wasn't into her. I don't think the other two women on this show would have reacted the same way.

 

I know that some people on this board think that her feelings for Ryan are forced. But I think there are a few other people here besides me who think that she's sincere.

[Snewtsie]

If there was a LIKE button on each of these comments, my finger would be sore from pressing it. I love reading what everyone has to say about these couples. This season is a miserable FAIL for all three couples.

[Crumpet]

 

And BTW, if she isn't "in love" with him why is she even talking about babies and envisioning a future with Ryan, etc.?  I would think that should come first but what do I know?

 

Because they're married and have to at least keep up the pretense of "the experiment" working while they are filming. 

[bourbon]

Once again, the "experts" give worthless advice. Dr. Logan's* advice to Ryan D and Jessica might have been helpful for a couple that were into each other, but one partner was not naturally cuddly and had to be reminded to give affection to other, more cuddly partner. But Ryan D is clearly not into her. He seems to have utter contempt for her, and I suppose I have to give him some credit for not just banging her and dumping her when the experiment is over and they part ways. I actually agreed with what Ryan was saying about not wanting to feel forced to give affection to someone he didn't feel affection for.  Why wasn't that part of the conversation? Why wasn't Ryan asked the obvious question about whether he even *liked* Jessica much less had stronger, romantic feelings? Because all the hand-holding and snuggling between now and the end of the experiment isn't going to fix what's wrong with their relationship. Why would Jessica even *want* affection from a man who has treated her like crap and clearly has no respect for her? They might be OK with other people, but together they are toxic. 

 

Sean is creepy and weird. It's funny to read from Dr. Joseph* how he and the production team loved Sean and thought the audience would love him. All the over-analysis and navel-gazing is really off-putting. He's another one that clearly does not even *like* his wife. Hand-holding and toe-sucking won't fix that.  He seems to always be making cutting "funny" remarks about her, too. He seems like the kind of guy that would say terrible things about you on Facebook and then add "j/k" or "LOL." 

 

I just don't know why the docs are encouraging these terribly mismatched couples to be physically intimate. Intimacy, whether it is sex or touching, springs from an emotional bond that already exists. It is not usually the *cause* of the bond. Maybe the best advice would be to tell the couples to just be polite to each other and run the clock out on the experiment. 

 

*I have a hard time respecting a doc that wants to be referred to by their first name unless they're my kids' pediatrician.

Edited May 21, 2015 by bourbon

[Aethera]

If there was a LIKE button on each of these comments, my finger would be sore from pressing it. I love reading what everyone has to say about these couples. This season is a miserable FAIL for all three couples.

 Snewtsie - there is a LIKE button, in fact - it's that little thumbs up icon at the bottom of each post. Welcome to the site! And welcome to the discussion of the train wreck that is this season of Married at First Sight :)  Glad to have you!

[Snarklepuss]

It's not like she wants to have his babies right away. That topic came up when her family/friends visited, and when he said that he wanted to wait until he's 35, that raised red flags for her, because she doesn't want to wait that long. I think it's perfectly legitimate to discuss the issue of having kids before you decide whether you want to get married or stay married to a person. When I was single, I didn't want to marry someone who didn't want kids or who only wanted one child. I wanted 2, maybe 3 kids. That was an important issue for me, and the man I married had the same feelings.

 

Yeah, but when you discuss whether and when you want to have kids when you first meet someone it's in general, not WITH THAT PERSON.  You do that so they know what you generally want in the future with "someone" (not necessarily them).  When Jaclyn was talking about it the presumption was that it would be with Ryan because after all, they're already married and she's making the assumption that this will continue.  That to me presumes being in a further along stage of the relationship.  In this way I kind of agree with Ryan that she is at least acting and talking like she's further along in her feelings for him than he is for her.  There is another time couples discuss having children after they get serious and then married and it's completely different in that context.  I think she wasn't just talking generally but with HIM.  Big difference, IMHO.

 

 

What else can she do? If he doesn't want her, then what can she do? I do see your point, and I know that when she said that, I was a little surprised, but I think he really hurt her and made her insecure when he pulled back after they'd had sex. So she tried to steel herself and turn her feelings off. I respect that you couldn't do that, but to tell the truth, I'm one of those rational people who could. Not with my husband, of course, to whom I've been married for many, many years, but with a new partner? Yes. I could, to protect myself and my own feelings.

 

Then she's not as far along in her feelings for him as she thinks.  Either he is a "new partner" or he is her husband.  In this case because they've done things out of order, he's both and it doesn't make things very clear in their hearts.  Usually you would expect someone to be further along with their feelings if they are married to someone, but in this case that's not really realistic.  Although it looks to me like Jaclyn thinks she has Ryan all mapped out in her life to the very end.....

 

Most feeling types I know would not respond so quickly to a rejection like that, especially if it was someone they just MARRIED, new or not, feelings or no feelings.  If they had high hopes for things continuing and in some ideal vision of the future romance it would be crushing no matter what.  I know that thinking types look at this completely differently.  I see Jaclyn has a very pragmatic approach.  Me, I'm an idealist.

 

 

I actually thought that it was very mature of her to say that they could be friends if he wasn't into her. I don't think the other two women on this show would have reacted the same way.

 

I know that some people on this board think that her feelings for Ryan are forced. But I think there are a few other people here besides me who think that she's sincere.

 

I don't know how mature I see it given that she may have a more pragmatic rational approach than the other women so I wouldn't necessarily see it as a mark of immaturity if a woman couldn't just be buddies with a guy who basically dumped them right away.  Perhaps they will in the future after they move on with their lives provided the guy didn't royally screw them.  I was only able to be friendly with a guy who dumped me a few years later when we ran into each other online but that would never have been possible right away.  Then again, I really wasn't that into him....I had a lot of hopes for the future with him so it hurt when he dumped me but it really wasn't that we were so suited for each other.  I just don't see Jaclyn as into Ryan as all that, what can I say?  Perhaps the other women have more of themselves invested in this and will be really let down if it doesn't work out, hence unable to be buddies with the guys until maybe much later.

 

It really kind of flipped me out when Ryan was talking about how he didn't want to continue having sex if his feelings weren't there for Jaclyn and her reaction reminded me of the Tin Man on Wizard of Oz - "I can understand that".  No affect whatsoever, like she's a stone.  Meanwhile if that were me I'd be in tears just on hearing a guy say that and being let down from a relationship I had such high hopes for.  Unless she went home afterward and had good cry.  Like others have said, she may be acting so "put together" for the camera to convince everyone how mature and wonderful she is.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[Liberty]

1) making cutting "funny" remarks about her, too. He seems like the kind of guy that would say terrible things about you on Facebook and then add "j/k" or "LOL." 

 

2) *I have a hard time respecting a doc that wants to be referred to by their first name unless they're my kids' pediatrician.

 

1)  I did read an internet article that insults explained away with 'just kidding, can't you take a joke', behavior was sociopathic bullying.

Don't know if that's true, but it does seem to be a way to offer demeaning comments and then blame the aggrieved for reacting.

 

2) Totally agree, when the authority between client and expert is diminished, the professional relationship is diminished.  It becomes a step or two closer to terms like "Basement Ryan" and "Ryan Douche", rather than Dr. Levkoff.  Using a moniker like Dr. Pepper goes beyond professional boundaries.

[Liberty]

.. When Jaclyn was talking about it the presumption was that it would be with Ryan because after all, they're already married...

 

Wonder how much her biological clock has to do with her applying to MAFS and how she sees Ryan.

[Vinyasa]

But to top it off with "I'm Christian Grey sexual"?  Vommmmmiiiiiiiitttttttttt.

 

That was  hilarious! Then he decorates with glow in the dark stars.

[Janet Snakehole]

I read Jaclyn's ability to turn her feelings off as a bit of a front. Not necessarily to make herself look better, but to protect herself. I think she is both an over feeler and an over thinker, and is able to read the situation with Ryan fairly well. I think for her, she wants to save face a bit because of her turn around on her feelings for Ryan, and being able to say they can be friends later is her way of trying to separate herself from her feelings for him. I am not so sure it would be as easy for her as she is making it out to be. I see her celibacy of two years as evidence of this, because Jaclyn is pretty self aware (or seems that way compared to others on this show) and may know that she is the type to fall hard and fast so she kept men at an army's length.

Of course, if my theory is true, signing up for a show where you get married right away and risk having to get hurt was not a wise choice for her.

[Bella]

I read Jaclyn's ability to turn her feelings off as a bit of a front. Not necessarily to make herself look better, but to protect herself. I think she is both an over feeler and an over thinker, and is able to read the situation with Ryan fairly well. I think for her, she wants to save face a bit because of her turn around on her feelings for Ryan, and being able to say they can be friends later is her way of trying to separate herself from her feelings for him. I am not so sure it would be as easy for her as she is making it out to be. I see her celibacy of two years as evidence of this, because Jaclyn is pretty self aware (or seems that way compared to others on this show) and may know that she is the type to fall hard and fast so she kept men at an army's length.

Of course, if my theory is true, signing up for a show where you get married right away and risk having to get hurt was not a wise choice for her.

 

I agree with this completely. Jaclyn talks herself into things a lot, it seems, and now she's going to talk herself into not having the feelings for Ryan that she previously talked herself into.

 

It's a self-preservation mechanism, and it's not flawless. She's my current favorite of the six. I'd like to give her a hug and tell her it will all be better some day, though I'm not certain about that last part.

[Chief Queef]

I think it's possible for Sean to both be a "player"/hook up with a lot of women AND be as awkward and dorky as he appears here. His personality may be off-putting but superficially he's a good looking guy with a decent job. I could totally see women pursuing him for casual sex, and then not sticking around long once his personality comes out. But then once he's faced with building real intimacy in a long-term relationship, especially with a woman like Davina who wants to be pursued by a man, he's out of his element. I also agree with everyone saying the experts' advice might help new couples who are in love, but it's useless with these people because none of them can stand each other. No matter how they rationalize it, it's obvious by their behavior and body language they have ZERO chemistry or interest and are just gritting their teeth and sticking out their 15 minutes. It's very telling that the "best" couple, Jaclyn and Ryan, have the potential to be friends at most. I doubt the others will even speak to each other after their contracts expire.

[sleekandchic]

That was hilarious! Then he decorates with glow in the dark stars.

OMG. I will never stop laughing at the Christian Grey reference AND the Decorating with Sean's Stars Show. Priceless.

Ive reached the conclusion that Sean "performed" his long, lingering, "soulful" kiss on his wedding day because he KNEW that was all he would EVER give Davina. That girl has really been played.

At the risk of appearing shallow and ill-informed, I think Sean is mega insecure about his physical attributes and his abilities. He absolutely, positively will not consummate with Davina because he will be damned if he gives her the ammunition to belittle him or to spread the news that he is sorely lacking. I do NOT believe the anonymous postings calling him a sexual player, and, unless someone absolutely believable can say s/he saw the "pregnant hookup's" actual pregnant belly, I wont ever believe it at all.

Sean is always "on," always thinking of his next "witty" barb toward Davina. Then, with the experts, I see his wheels turning, conjuring up the "right" babbly phrase to use with them. Cilona buys it all, but last night I caught a glimmer of shit-detecting on Logan's part, maybe.

I would LOVE it if Sean's mother one day reveals why she was appalled and dumbfounded when Sean announced his participation in MAFS. That woman KNOWS the truth of her son.

I do not want any of the couples to remain married. Just stop the whole thing and move along. Narcissists, sociopaths, lying liars who lie can be found anywhere. Dont stick with one just cause you want to be a tv star!

Edited May 20, 2015 by sleekandchic

[Jade Foxx]

 

I think it's possible for Sean to both be a "player"/hook up with a lot of women AND be as awkward and dorky as he appears here.

 

Don't mean to be a contrarian, but nope, not buying it, sorry....

[Waterlilly]

It is hard to eat my chips and hit like on most every post! MHO is that Jaclyn is guarded now, I am like her in that I can seemingly turn off the feelings for self protection. BTW I love her energy. I felt like the baby talk was generic, I mean it was couples visiting and her friends brought up the subject. Didn't seem like a ball buster to me like Jamie can be about it.

Sean is in over his head. He doesn't seem to know how to work for it. He could use some charm classes.

Jessica is in love with the idea of love and marriage. I agree that she should have cooked for him. The notes are a good idea when they lead to someone nakid (that's better than naked)LOL!

[Snewtsie]

I don't know what's wrong with my browser (Chrome), but I don't see any LIKE buttons. :-(

I would be clicking them like crazy.

OH - in "View in Forums" there are LIKE buttons.  GOT IT.

Sorry everyone.

[JaneVM]

This episode was the most meaningless of all of them.  Intimacy and affection come AFTER a couple has a connection and flows naturally.  I think it's ridiculous that the "experts" would show the couples their wedding album (as a motivation to be intimate) when that's just pictures of when they were on a high from being in the moment of infatuation over marrying a stranger. Ryan D was right when he said that intimacy and affection come automatically when you care for someone.  You can't force that.  Telling Ryan that he has to hold Jessica's hand or similar is so dumb.  Obviously he detests her and no amount of faking it will change that.  I just want this season to be over.

[John Mraz]

Davina's voice absolutely grates. She.picks.each.word.so.carefully,as if each word is so though out and profound, it makes me want to throw a brick at my tv...but my reason for coming here tonite is Sean Grey. OMFG! I literally was speechless. ..any dude who knows who Mr. Grey is....is obviously NOT a Mr. Grey...and Ive never read the stupid books...omg Sean...seriously? Could he possibly be more pathetic and lame?

He wants to come across like a Lothario, which is puzzling considering that he signed up for "Marriage at First Sight".  I wonder how he will move on after he does not get cast for more mainstream reality shows.  I can picture him seducing women by sharing his TV experience as a "victim".

 

Not really getting all the hate this forum seems to have for Sean. He's the only one who has compromised (I'll be it begrungedingly) in that marriage. Can anyone name 1 thing she has compromised on since the marriage started? Just 1 thing. The guy is constantly walking on egg shells around Davina. She's beaten the spirit out of the guy completely. The guy comes home sick and she seems more pissed at him over that than compassionate about his situation.

By this point in the series, she knew full well that he was faking to get out of the activity he didn't want to participate in.

 

At the risk of appearing shallow and ill-informed, I think Sean is mega insecure about his physical attributes and his abilities. He absolutely, positively will not consummate with Davina because he will be damned if he gives her the ammunition to belittle him or to spread the news that he is sorely lacking. I do NOT believe the anonymous postings calling him a sexual player, and, unless someone absolutely believable can say s/he saw the "pregnant hookup's" actual pregnant belly, I wont ever believe it at all.

No one who had experienced a partner having a miscarriage would talk about it the way Sean did.  He made up the whole story for attention, and he used it in the TV series because he thought it would elicit sympathy from the viewership.  He really is that out of touch with reality.

[smiley221]

I think Davina is a lot more likeable and genuine than she may appear to be on the show. It's probably hard to truly be yourself in front of the camera. She made some mistakes but not any more than the other cast members.

The fact that she has so many friends out to defend her reveals that Sean was probably quite unfair to her at the end and that she didn't deserve it.

The problem is inherent in the way the show is set up and the couples' expectations from each other because they are married. They Immediately take the role of husband and wife and have unrealistic expectations. (ie Jessica sleeping with Ryan on the first night). Davina fell into that trap. She demanded to be courted and immediately embraced by Sean.

This came across as needy and pushed Sean away. Men need to chase women in order to appreciate them. All three of the women are beautiful but they just didn't play their cards right.

Edited May 21, 2015 by smiley221

[Snarklepuss]

I agree with this completely. Jaclyn talks herself into things a lot, it seems, and now she's going to talk herself into not having the feelings for Ryan that she previously talked herself into.

 

It's a self-preservation mechanism, and it's not flawless. She's my current favorite of the six. I'd like to give her a hug and tell her it will all be better some day, though I'm not certain about that last part.

 

I think you might be right about it being self preservation, but also preserving her image to the world as a part of that - I also think that Jaclyn is FOS about a lot of things.  Like whether she would really want to remain in the friend zone with Ryan if things didn't work out.  Not sure I buy that she could really talk herself out of wanting a relationship with him, but I think she wants to believe she can!

The problem is inherent in the way the show is set up and the couples' expectations from each other because they are married. They Immediately take the role of husband and wife and have unrealistic expectations. (ie Jessica sleeping with Ryan on the first night). Davina fell into that trap. She demanded to be courted and immediately embraced by Sean.

This came across as needy and pushed Sean away. Men need to chase women in order to appreciate them. All three of the women are beautiful but they just didn't play their cards right.

 

I know, it's kinda hard to play "hard to get" when you already share a bed and a last name with someone, LOL.  This presses women's buttons and sets them up for expectations that the men may or may not want to fulfill despite technically being married.

[Snarklepuss]

I think it's possible for Sean to both be a "player"/hook up with a lot of women AND be as awkward and dorky as he appears here. His personality may be off-putting but superficially he's a good looking guy with a decent job. I could totally see women pursuing him for casual sex, and then not sticking around long once his personality comes out. But then once he's faced with building real intimacy in a long-term relationship, especially with a woman like Davina who wants to be pursued by a man, he's out of his element.

 

I agree completely.  I went to school with awkward ugly putz's who later became very successful and let me tell you even they had to peel the women off of them.  Not much effort required when you're a single man who's successful and good looking.  The combination is like catnip to single women.  I agree that he goes through them because either they find out he's a zero personality-wise, or he only sticks around for sex and then moves on.

[MissScarlett]

I finally got a chance to watch this episode!  None of the couples really seem to be moving forward much.  I can't believe they only have 2 weeks left to make a decision on whether to stay married or get divorced.

 

Davina & Sean -- I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I really like Davina.  I think she is a woman who knows what she wants and goes after it.  I think she tried very hard to communicate her wants and needs to Sean but they fell on deaf ears.  Let's be honest, Sean only cares for Sean.  For all of his proclamations and "aha moments", Sean is clearly dialing it in now and has been giving a series of half ass attempts since episode 3.  I wouldn't be surprised to hear that he only shows up when the cameras are around.  I thought it was interesting when Sean said (in a VO or a TH) something to the affect of "I know that Davina feels a connection with me".  He didn't say... "Davina and I feel a connection" just that Davina feels a connection.  This very much told me everything I need to know about their relationship.  

 

I think Davina's best friend Chris did a nice job cutting through the bullshit.  Probably ended up going back to Davina to tell her that he thinks Sean is full of shit.

 

Also, Sean looked super awkward giving Davina a back rub toward the end of the episode.  It didn't look sexy or very Christian-Grey like to me.  Suckiest and least sexy back rub ever.  Maybe he needs to take a class on back rubs from Ryan D.

 

I hate that the "experts" lay all of this blame at Davina's feet.  YES... she definitely has challenges.  She is a red flag seeker, she becomes defensive very quickly and she lacks self awareness in her relationship with Sean.  However, Sean is just not there for the right reasons.  I can see it plain as day.  I think Sean and Davina equally own the mess that is their relationship.  Davina deserves better.

 

Jessica & Ryan D -- If these two could actually have a soul baring, deep conversation, I think they could work.  Ryan has anger issues and he can be a petty asshole when he's pissed off, but I don't think he's abusive.  I think Jessica all too willingly puts herself in a victim role because she refuses to speak up.  Hand to God... if that girl would put him in his place and be more aggressive, I think Ryan would actually like it.  I don't know if it's in her nature though.

 

It seems that Ryan cares about Jessica but he's obviously not in love with her.  That's what I took his comment to mean when he said that when you care about someone, you want to be affectionate, etc.

 

Jessica seems to care about Ryan a little too.  I thought the sushi treasure hunt was cute and it was her way of being more aggressive.  In this episode I saw her open up a bit more and I saw Ryan be a little more passive and responsive.  Maybe i'm being overly optimistic, but I don't think they are a terrible match.  They just need to learn how to navigate one another.

 

Jaclyn & Ryan --  I think this week is the beginning of hope for Jaclyn & Ryan.  The last few episodes have shown their rough patch, but this week, Ryan seemed to enjoy hanging out with Jaclyn.  He voiced his need to take charge and Jaclyn willingly took a back seat and let him do that.  When she fell from the rock climbing wall and he caught her, there was a giddiness in Ryan's TH that I hadn't seen before.  Jaclyn still likes him an awful lot and though she was hurt by the fact that he pulled back, in the end they seemed to start to drift toward one another at an equal pace.

 

I think it was great when Ryan told her that he didn't like his cheeks pinched, etc. because it made him feel like that was something his grandma or a grandma would do.

 

From what i've seen of Jaclyn and Ryan they are opposites in personality BUT they seem to have similar values and goals in life.  I think Ryan has what Jaclyn needs and vice versa.  If he can take charge and continue to be honest with her and if she can treat him like an equal and not mother him, I think they have a solid chance.  They have great communication with one another, they have attraction and the foundation is there... they just need to reaffirm their roles in the relationship.

 

I think Jaclyn would be a great role model and stand in mother figure for Ryan's niece.  I think Ryan would be a fool to give up on Jaclyn.  In my opinion, she's the complete package.

Edited May 21, 2015 by MissScarlett

[The Evil One]

 

I think it's possible for Sean to both be a "player"/hook up with a lot of women AND be as awkward and dorky as he appears here. His personality may be off-putting but superficially he's a good looking guy with a decent job.

 

I agree - I don't see any disconnect between Sean having a reputation and how he acts on the show. He probably comes off pretty charming in small doses - just look at him on the wedding day/night. His creep-o-meter didn't shoot up for me until after that. I'm sure he's had a string of superficial relationships because in the end Sean is very into Sean. Sean comes across, to me, as the most aware of the cameras and most like he is playing a character of what "a good guy" is supposed to be, but he has no clue.

 

At this point, I wish we could just pull the ripcord on most of these couples and give them an early ejection from "the process." Jessica and Ryan are hopeless. Poor girl needs to get a clue - if Ryan is still sleeping with her, it's hate-sex at this point. Davina and Sean are painful to watch.

 

The only ones I still like are Jaclyn and Basement Ryan. I'm far less hopeful for them than I was a few weeks ago, but at least they are watchable/don't seem to hate eachother. Ryan is only going to want a girl that will want to live on the same block as his mother so that nothing about his life has to change. I think Jaclyn is far too independent and much too much personality for him handle. She deserves a better match, not a guy who perpetually acts like he's waking up from anesthesia.

[Passthepopcorn]

Does everybody in this show need wine or beer prior sex (or attempted sex)? It seems it is the only way to get in the mood, get the courage, loosen up.

Or it is staged to let us know what is about to happen...

The way I see it they are not comfortable enough yet to naturally let it happen. Or it is not naturally happening because of other reasons (not being truly attracted, connected, not feeling the way you are supposed to feel toward your spouse- enamored, in love, aroused).

[Passthepopcorn]

That's probably why I'm a little more on Ryan R's side and a little wary of Jaclyn. She was single for 7 years and hasn't been intimate with another person in 2. Red flag city there. No way someone as cool as Jaclyn comes across is still single or has been alone for almost a decade unless she has some major bones in the closet and/or is conning us.

 Celibacy and being picky choosing your partner doesn't equal red flag necessarily. A single attractive person doesn't "have to" be in a relationship or dating at all times to fit in and "be normal".

I've found that most people who act this way have lots of values and when they find the right partner it is a serious strong long lasting relationship.

She has her issues, just like everybody else.

[MissScarlett]

 Celibacy and being picky choosing your partner doesn't equal red flag necessarily. A single attractive person doesn't "have to" be in a relationship or dating at all times to fit in and "be normal".

I've found that most people who act this way have lots of values and when they find the right partner it is a serious strong long lasting relationship.

She has her issues, just like everybody else.

 

Exactly!  Jaclyn seems like the type who got in her own way when it came to relationships, prior to this experiment.  I believe that she found qualities in Ryan that she didn't know she wanted/needed until now.

[Snarklepuss]

Yeah, I don't know.  I like Jaclyn in a lot of ways, and I really want to give her the benefit of the doubt on that, but all this overbearing stuff she does just speaks volumes.  Guys especially would not want to put up with her controlling nature.  She says she just likes to "take care of people" and perhaps she does, but she needs to learn a little about reciprocation.  Letting a guy order for himself is a no brainer, it falls under relationship 101.  If she doesn't know that by her 30s or 29 or however old she is, there's a problem, IMHO.  She made it sound like it was oh so hard to let him do that!  I mean yikes!  To me it shows she isn't as self aware as she wants everyone (including herself) to think she is.

[jamblastx]

Taking a cue from my favorite MAFS 'bro' Sean for my weekend plans.  Meeting up with my friend for a 'bro-date' tomorrow afternoon cause that's what us 'bro's' do.  On Saturday I'm gonna go out with my girlfriend and I will get all 'Christian Grey' and pick out the just right moment to try to hold her hand.  Gonna plan a menu for a 'bro-b-que' for the Indy 500 on Sunday.  It's gonna be 'bro-tastic'!

[Hugh Jasole]

I believe Sean is Christian Grey sexual. Unfortunately, they've put him with the wrong sex. He needs balls slapping his chin.

[okerry]

***I know, it's kinda hard to play "hard to get" when you already share a bed and a last name with someone, LOL.  This presses women's buttons and sets them up for expectations that the men may or may not want to fulfill despite technically being married.

 

I think the premise of the show was supposed to be, "You're married so you HAVE to stay with it and find ways to solve the problems. You can't just walk out like it was a date."

 

But I think this backfired, because why work for something that you just got handed for free? You've already got it.

 

P.S. The quote function DOES NOT WORK on my Windows 8.1 laptop and this forum constant crashes. Frustrating!

[JapMo]

 

The only ones I still like are Jaclyn and Basement Ryan. I'm far less hopeful for them than I was a few weeks ago, but at least they are watchable/don't seem to hate eachother. Ryan is only going to want a girl that will want to live on the same block as his mother so that nothing about his life has to change. I think Jaclyn is far too independent and much too much personality for him handle. She deserves a better match, not a guy who perpetually acts like he's waking up from anesthesia.

OMG, your last sentence is so funny and so accurate. My pet nickname for him is "slug". 

[Snarklepuss]

What's with all their usage of the word "bro"?  I've heard Jaclyn use it too, plus the popular "bro-mance".  Is bro something young people have latched onto?  Because the only context I remember that word being used in was in Junior High school in the Bronx back in 1972, as in "Hey, bro, you got a 'fro pick"?

[Neurochick]

The problem I see with this show is that all of these couples want to GET MARRIED, as if marriage is the goal instead of being married to a particular person is the goal.  It's like buying a painting and a frame.  Most people buy the painting and then find a frame to fit it, they don't look for a frame and then find a painting to fit in the frame.  What if you see a real beautiful painting but it doesn't fit in the frame you just bought?  That's what I think is wrong, these people want to get married, but have forgotten the most important piece, the person they're marrying.  

[Snarklepuss]

The problem I see with this show is that all of these couples want to GET MARRIED, as if marriage is the goal instead of being married to a particular person is the goal.  It's like buying a painting and a frame.  Most people buy the painting and then find a frame to fit it, they don't look for a frame and then find a painting to fit in the frame.  What if you see a real beautiful painting but it doesn't fit in the frame you just bought?  That's what I think is wrong, these people want to get married, but have forgotten the most important piece, the person they're marrying.  

 

I think they acted like people hiring an interior decorator.  They expected the "experts" to make the house a home by finding just the right picture/person to put in that frame/marriage.  Too bad it's not as easy as decorating.  People are way more complicated!