S10.E22: The Prisoner

[Tara Ariano]

Dean decides to take matters into his own hands when it comes to the Stynes; and Sam tries to come to terms with his decision.

[catrox14]

[Mick Lady]

Is tonight the season final?

[catrox14]

No, that's next week. :)

[lmdreamer]

at least crowley is back to being the big bad. I think

[lmdreamer]

awwwwwwwwwwwwwww...............crap!

[elzin]

I was *thisclose* to ragequitting.  I literally gasped out loud. I can't believe I fell for it.  So dumb of me. But given last week and that I haven't heard that Misha has signed on for next season that I can recall, I guess it wouldn't be unbelievable.

[Jediknight]

So they let us know the Steins were descendants of Frankenstein, and then proceed to kill off the entire family the following episode.  That makes the kind of sense that doesn't.

 

And now the big bad is Dean, and next week it's going to become brother vs brother.

[catrox14]

Oh gods.  This is horrible.  I thought Dean really was going to kill Cas. I fucking screamed "NO!" when he went to stab him. I'm not even kidding.  That was so distressing.

 

Jeebus, Jensen Ackles.  You are too much. You scare the crap out of me.

 

But now Dean has killed how many humans?  Gods...I just don't even know.

[Demented Daisy]

I don't know what to say.  

 

For everyone who said that they'd never make Dean do anything truly bad, I guess TPTB proved you wrong.  Explain it away all you (general you) want, but that kid did not deserve to die.

 

Cas got a reprieve.  I'm still sure that he and (probably) Rowena will die next week.  And Crowley, after every horrible thing he's done, will continue to live.  I don't agree with Sam often, but I did tonight.

 

Dear Chuck, I think I'm hate-watching now.  And that makes me so sad.

[catrox14]

I don't know how Dean comes back from this. I just don't. I just can't process it.

Why show? WHY

[bethy]

So. They just had Dean kill a child. A high school student. I just... I don't even know.

[lmdreamer]

I agree with you demented daisy that kid was the line dean couldn't cross and he did.  What surprised me was that dean beat cas so easily.  Didn't regaining his grace mean anything at all or was cas holding back?  Yes dean had the mark but he couldn't have been at full strength.  He was still human albeit super powered. Also in the show dean said the mark wasn't going to kill him, but wasn't he throwing up blood about this time last year because he wasn't killing enough?  Or has he decided that since he's been killing for awhile this season that the mark killing him wasn't a concern anymore.

[catrox14]

This is horrible. I'm sorry for the separate posts.  I'm just on a stream of consciousness. 

 

Is the show really trying to tell me that my (our) Dean Winchester, was a human that just killed a teenager? That he's worse than demon!Dean who only killed assholes?

 

I'm so angry right now. So angry.  How could you do this, Carver?  How? More importantly, why? Why do you think we want to see Dean kill a child....I'm just....

[Jediknight]

Dear Chuck, I think I'm hate-watching now.  And that makes me so sad.

There's nothing Charles Irving Bartowski can do about this.

[Frost]

I feel very unsettled right now.  I don't know if it was the gore fest or the weird vibe with Crowley actually seeming sincere about atoning for his past sins or the depths Dean sank to in killing the kid.  It will take a while to process.

[Ria]

I watched the entire episode thinking "who are these assholes?" What happened to the decent, well meaning guys who wanted to help people? From the beginning when Dean was blaming Sam for Charlie's death (a grown woman who made her own choices) and Sam stating he was going to save Dean because Dean was all he had to Dean finally going over the edge slaughtering people including a boy to Cas continuing to be weak and useless, I don't like any of these characters any more. And they once meant a great deal to me.

 

What surprised me was that dean beat cas so easily.  Didn't regaining his grace mean anything at all or was cas holding back?What surprised me was that dean beat cas so easily.  Didn't regaining his grace mean anything at all or was cas holding back?

 

The show has completely forgotten what angels once were. Now they are just pathetic, weak and whiney. They should have killed Cas off long before they let him become this shadow of what he once was. Maybe that's their plan, ruin the character so there is no backlash when they kill him off.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Ria

[catrox14]

I know Jensen wants a challenge for Dean.....but gods, surely he can't be happy that Dean killed a kid. 

 

Crowley at least is back to being scary Crowley. 

 

I know I've said before that felt like Carver doesn't seem to like Dean and Sam and I've been talked off that ledge, but after this? How can I think otherwise?

 

He destroyed Sam in s8.  And he just made Dean a child killer? I need a drink

Edited May 14, 2015 by catrox14

[2Old2BAFangirl]

Wow, Dean.... just wow.

 

With all the happenings tonight, I was ridiculously upset at the idea the picture of Mary with baby Dean would burn.  Until I thought Dean might actually kill Cas, the picture thing made me the most upset! 

I'm hanging my head in shame and will re-watch to take in the impact of Dean killing that poor teenager in the proper manner it deserves.

[AlliMo]

Am I really supposed to feel like Dean crossed a line killing the youngest Styne? As my son pointed out, that kid didn't *not* kill a boy. I get that he's young, but he clearly knew everything his family was about and blithely sat there playing video games, casually bitching about what a pain in the ass they were. Kid or not, he was old enough to be complicit.

 

Sam continues to be The Dumbest.

Edited May 14, 2015 by AlliMo

[kimrey]

Well. I don't even know how I felt about that one.

I guess the whole Charlie thing is confusing for me. Like, let's say the Stynes killed Sam. That would most definitely set Dean off, right? Yet, they killed Charlie and Dean tells Sam he wished HE was dead instead of Charlie. I know the mark is making him say these things, but I really don't like seeing Charlie put above EVERYONE else, especially Sam.

Also, not fair that Charlie got a montage and Kevin didn't. Poor Kevin.

I wish Sam had arrived at the bunker before the episode ended. He's going to have a heart attack at seeing all of his books in a pile with gasoline on them! Probably the least of his worries right now, but still!

When Dean is back to himself again next season (because I'm sure he will be), he is going to have a tough time with this. He did worse things in this episode than he did in 3 episodes as a demon.

Carry on Wayward Son next week!! And hopefully more brothers scenes!

Edited May 14, 2015 by kimrey

[Wynne88]

I thought that across the board, this was the best acting I've seen all year.  

[catrox14]

 

Am I really supposed to feel like Dean crossed a line killing the youngest Styne? As my son pointed out, that kid didn't *not* kill a boy.

 

Be that as it may, he was coerced into killing the other kid. So yes, he did do it, but he did it under the threat of his own life.

 

I

[Morrigan2575]

Wow. For a minute there, I almost thought Dean killed Castiel.

I hate that Dean killed Geekystein but at the same time I'm annoyed at the obvious manipulation. They needed to make Dean Dark/Cold so of course they throw a sympathetic "I'm not like my family" character in the mix.

I know why they did it but that doesn't make it OK. A.better version would have been to have Dean actually go.for the Castiel kill only to get stopped. You can see just how cold/dark he got by the look of fear/betrayal on Castiel's face. Simple and no audience manipulation.

Other than that I really liked this episode. Love that Crowley got.his mojo back.

Oh almost forgot, another really cold moment. Dean telling Sam he wished Sam was on the funeral pyre instead of Charlie.

[catrox14]

I think Cas voluntarily took that beating to try and get through to Dean like Dean did in s8.  I think he was showing his faith and love that Dean wouldn't kill him.  I also think Cas didn't want to use his grace yet.  I think he's saving it for when he really needs to take out Dean. 

 

I'm not gonna lie, after Dean said he didn't judge about girls or boys...I thought maybe Cas would try and kiss him to save him.  HA. Yeah how wrong was I.  That was just a brutal beating. 

 

Did anyone else think Crowley was going to possess Sam? Or did Sam get another anti-possession tattoo?

Edited May 14, 2015 by catrox14

[Ferniesfreckles]

Damn! I must be the only one who was disappointed that he didn't kill Cass.

:(

That kid was part of that horrible family. Eventually he would have become just like them. I have no problem with what Dean did.

They killed Charlie.

I did hate that Dean said that it should be Sam up in that pyre. THAT is horrible and unforgivable to me.

I was in a true panic about their home being burned down.

Crowley is back!! About damn time.

Fantastic episode.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Ferniesfreckles

[7kstar]

I don't know what to say.  

 

For everyone who said that they'd never make Dean do anything truly bad, I guess TPTB proved you wrong.  Explain it away all you (general you) want, but that kid did not deserve to die.

 

Cas got a reprieve.  I'm still sure that he and (probably) Rowena will die next week.  And Crowley, after every horrible thing he's done, will continue to live.  I don't agree with Sam often, but I did tonight.

 

Dear Chuck, I think I'm hate-watching now.  And that makes me so sad.

Well I liked the Charlie montage at the beginning but Hated what Dean said to Sam about he should be dead not Charlie.

 

Sam's point about saving Dean will have a price, maybe too high of a price was spot on.  But the beat down on Cas, the killing of the kid, yes they really did make Dean really dark, too dark...

 

I did love that Crowley didn't die because I wasn't expecting it.  His eyes turning red and him remembering why he loved what he did, I thought Sam what have you released.

 

I have a thought that I will share in the spoiler's thread, but there are so many issues.  Not sure how I feel, I'm not excited but maybe I'm like the spectators that have to watch the train wreck.  So I will either hate the whole thing or they will give me a reason to want to watch next season. 

 

SO I totally get the hate watch, because I feel like I'm torn in half.  I don't want to see what comes next, yet I can't miss it either.  There has to be a really big pay off, that makes next season worthwhile, but right now I'm scared I'm just going to wish that season 11 is the last one ever.

[kimrey]

Oh yeah, as much as I miss the boys and their hotel rooms, I'd be super sad if something happened to the bunker. I kinda like that the boys have a home now.

[lmdreamer]

I just had a conversation with my mom and she pointed out that Crowley  could have sent that message to Rowena herself somehow without sam, so why let sam live? Was it for dean?

[catrox14]

I will say that I was happy that we got a couple of funny Dean moments before it all went to shit.  I loved him figuring out which registration to use. 

 

I think he'll use Sam to coerce Dean into something, now that he's got his demon mojo back.  So did Rowena really try to kill Crowley or did she hex him to get him back on King of Hell Crowley?

[lmdreamer]

Also if Crowley would have died right there I would have hated it.  Not that Sam killed him because as much as I enjoy mark shepard the actor he really did deserve it but because I don't think it would have been a good death for crowley.

[Ria]

Did someone forget to lock the bunker door? How did those two dimwitted Stynes get in.

 

That kid was part of that horrible family. Eventually he would have become just like them. I have no problem with what Dean did.That kid was part of that horrible family. Eventually he would have become just like them. I have no problem with what Dean did.

 

I can't agree with that. The kid killed only under threat of being dismembered alive himself. He was afraid to run away because he was certain he would be killed. In the past, the kid would have been seen as a victim to be saved. His family was dead, there is no reason to think he would have inevitably turned out like them now that he was free of them. Even monsters have been given more of a benefit of a doubt than this kid was. And Dean didn't even kill him because of anything he'd actually done. Dean killed him solely because of "bad blood".

[lmdreamer]

so catrox you think this was just another manipulation on Rowena's part to turn crowley against sam and dean?

[catrox14]

so catrox you think this was just another manipulation on Rowena's part to turn crowley against sam and dean?

 

I think it's very possible. Rowena is smart and a strategist or at least an opportunist. She seemed to really want her son to be a true King of Hell and not the Winchesters'  little bitch. She can go to Crowley and say that she did that to get him back on track and he might appreciate it.  He thinks she failed, where she might prove her worth. Worst. Helicopter. Mom EVER.

[catrox14]

One thing I noticed was they used the same theme when Dean was slaughtering the Stynes as when Dean was fighting Cain in the Executioner's Song.  So is that essentially Cain's Theme?

[Frost]

 

you think this was just another manipulation on Rowena's part to turn crowley against sam and dean

I was kind of wondering if all the blood Crowley was coughing up was the 'tainted' blood that was making him more human.  Like a purge. 

 

I don't blame Sam for Charlie's death because she was a grown woman making her own decisions.  I do blame him for being so incredibly inept in dealing with Rowena.  He's flailing around doing her bidding.  Besides chaining her up, doesn't he have any other leverage on her?

[catrox14]

Did someone forget to lock the bunker door? How did those two dimwitted Stynes get in.

 

I can't agree with that. The kid killed only under threat of being dismembered alive himself. He was afraid to run away because he was certain he would be killed. In the past, the kid would have been seen as a victim to be saved. His family was dead, there is no reason to think he would have inevitably turned out like them now that he was free of them. Even monsters have been given more of a benefit of a doubt than this kid was. And Dean didn't even kill him because of anything he'd actually done. Dean killed him solely because of "bad blood".

 

I have to say though, if that kid was a good kid, he would have theoretically gone to the police. I almost wish Dean would have just killed him because no witnesses.  I mean if they are going to just destroy Dean altogether why not at least make him mercenary in his motives.  Self-preservation is fine by me at this point.

 

Gods I'm so pissed off and it's not even the finale. FUCK

 

And another thing? I'm really tired of Rowena trying "Mom" Sam by calling him Samuel. That's really pissing me off. 

 

I noticed that Cas called the bunker "home". He said Dean's coming Home.  That was incredibly sweet IMO, that Cas understands that is Dean's home. Maybe less so for Sam. 

 

And man I was screaming bloody murder he Eldon threw the picture of Mary into the fire. That's fucked up.

Edited May 14, 2015 by catrox14

[lmdreamer]

yeah please tell me sam has a witch bomb already cooked up for her once she is done helping him.  On the other hand has it occurred to rowena that sam will never let her off of the iron leash?

[Jediknight]

I have to say though, if that kid was a good kid, he would have theoretically gone to the police.

The cops were in the pockets of the Steins.  It's why they busted Dean.

[Goldmoon]

The first thing I thought when I saw it wasn't working on Crowley is that Rowena played Sam.  These guys are idiots.  Especially Sam.  Sorry to Sam Girls - you were right when you speculated that he was going to look like a dummy this finale. I was in terror that the Stynes would burn the bunker and all those books!  I'm so glad they didn't burn the place down.  I was kind of surprised and kind of not that Dean killed Ernie from My Three Sons.  He was obviously set up to be the Innocent that made Dean cross the line. 

 

As for the Cas and Dean scene, they have been kept apart for most of the season, then this fight.  It was not very convincing on Cas's part until it got physical.  I had never realized just how Cas was going to be left watching Dean/Cain destroy the world eventually, so well done show.  The beatdown was heartbreaking.  The only tiny note of comfort is that Dean couldn't kill Cas.  THAT may be what saves him.  I'm worried that he meant it about killing him next time though.  I'm going to stop because I am incoherent.

[ulkis]

At a couple of points Sam's hair had the same shape as Jane Lane's from Daria.

 

Dean was crazy but I was impressed with his moves in the chair.

Edited May 14, 2015 by ulkis

[catrox14]

You know what's really fucked up? These assholes used Dean's family theme when he was beating the shit out of Cas.  That's not cool, show. Not fucking cool.

 

Also, remember when Bob Singer said Dean would learn to be a hero again? When did that happen? And how can that happen now?

The cops were in the pockets of the Steins.  It's why they busted Dean.

 

That's the local police.  The kid could go to any other police.

 

Was it me or did Jensen look HUGE in this episode? I don't think it was just camera angles either. Maybe he just hunches a bit more when he's not in badass Dean mode. But good gods....he looked amazing.

Edited May 14, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

at least crowley is back to being the big bad. I think

 

I have mixed feelings about that. Did they have to make him look somewhat sympathetic and like he might've changed before he got his mojo back... because of something Sam did by the look of it? I hope this isn't going to bite Dean in the butt... If it bites Sam in the butt, I'll accept it, but I also agree with Sam about still wanting to kill Crowley: Sam especially did not see the "softer side" of Crowley. Crowley really did cost him the most in terms of people he cared about.

 

I was kind of wondering if all the blood Crowley was coughing up was the 'tainted' blood that was making him more human.  Like a purge.

 

Oh, that's an excellent theory in my opinion. Which crap... that would make Crowley almost a good guy, and make it Sam's fault he's the big bad again... and especially if this was Rowena's plan, it will make Sam such a dumbass. It did appear that Rowena hoped Crowley was dead and it would have been a huge risk if she knew about the knife, because Sam might've stabbed Crowley anyway (though we don't know if that will work on Crowley or not, now that he's raised the question on that, but still.) I think you and catrox are correct... I think Rowena planned to "fix" Crowley which is why she insisted Crowley be dealt with "her way." Which yeah will make Sam a dumbass. ::Le sigh::

 

I was in a true panic about their home being burned down.

 

Me too! And I was also thinking "oh, no, don't burn all the important books. How will they ever get that information back? Sam couldn't have scanned them all yet." I'm a dork and a terrible person. All that death and I'm concerned about the books.

 

Also, remember when Bob Singer said Dean would learn to be a hero again? When did that happen? And how can that happen now?

 

I'm guessing Dean will make a big sacrifice next episode. I just hope some of the reason for that doesn't have to do with Crowley getting his mojo back and/or having to save Sam from Crowley.

 

 

And was I the only one thinking "why don't you bring the kid back to life, Cas?" because his family made it kinda likely he isn't going up. Can't Cas do that anymore?

[Goldmoon]

Why isn't Cas teleporting himself any more?  And can't he heal?  He didn't heal Charlie, and now the nerdy kid.

[catrox14]

Why isn't Cas teleporting himself any more?  And can't he heal?  He didn't heal Charlie, and now the nerdy kid.

 

Cas hasn't been able to teleport since his wings burned.  I think he's saving his grace to save Dean or Sam when they time comes. 

[Mick Lady]

I truly believe, as Ria said earlier, that the writers have forgotten,(or are ignoring) what angles once were. Cas is nowhere near what he once was.

 

It's sad when a show can't even remember it's own cannon.

Cas hasn't been able to teleport since his wings burned.  I think he's saving his grace to save Dean or Sam when they time comes. 

 

 catrox14, does that mean Cas only has limited grace now? I honestly don't remember.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Mick Lady

[catrox14]

I didn't think Cas got all of his grace back.

[Mick Lady]

Okay, I think I remember that. I'm going to have to go back and watch this season again. Thank you!

 

I hate how this show has it's hooks on me. I've watched since season one, and every time I swear to quit, I just can't. Now I have to go through brotherly angst again!

 

Oh, and do they have to destroy Dean? I'm no "fan girl" I could have sons the boys age, but I do love Dean, and am holding on to the hope he can be redeemed. Killing a teenager was so out of character for him, and the remark at Charlie's byre (or whatever you call it) was over the top!

Edited May 14, 2015 by Mick Lady

[ahrtee]

Just have to throw my two cents in here to everyone who is so upset about how Dean has done the unforgivable; that he crossed the line by murdering an innocent human... Does anyone here remember the poor nurse way back in 4.22 that Sam kidnapped and murdered just so he could drink her blood?  AFAIK, *no one* (including Dean, Sam, Bobby or even Ruby) ever mentioned her again.   Maybe Sam never told Dean?  I know it was handwaved by the writers because, well, Sam was not himself, but was under the influence of some uncontrollable evil...hey, does that sound familiar? 

 

I'm not trying to whitewash either action, just point out that yes, it has been done before and yes, it has been forgiven, or at least, apparently forgotten.  Frankly, I'm more curious to see if anyone is going to recognize that Dean has actually just murdered a surrogate-Sam:  the too-smart oddball member of a dangerous family who wanted nothing more than to get away from his family, be normal, and not go into the family business, but was supposedly tainted by "bad blood" that would eventually turn him into a monster...

 

 

[Mick Lady]

Good point ahrtee! Haven't thought of that! I'll have to ponder this and get back to you.