S02.E06: Houses Divided

[HalcyonDays]

Episode synopsis: Mary pleads with Richard to help free Abe from prison; Anna must seduce Simcoe; Ben and Caleb plot to rescue Hewlett from his captors.

[riverheightsnancy]

Could Andre get any hotter? I don't even care about the spy ring anymore! :)  Just more ANDRE! Peggy was looking cute too. 

[ulkis]

Perhaps if he cut off that braid. :) Otherwise, yeah, he's pretty smokin'.

 

Peggy is cute but she's a wee bit too modern looking, imo.

[tabloidlover]

I am so happy that I stuck with this show through last season.  This season is getting better by the week!  I do have one complaint though - AMC always mentions that you can view an extended preview at their site, yet I have yet to be able to see it. 

[lynnea6]

I'm all for the women showing strength in this show, but they exhibited some really bad decision making in this one.

 

Mary - We have a winner for the person who would make a worse spy than Abe.  She totally could have made her point to Judge Woodhull without blabbing that his son killed a British soldier.

 

Anna - She has seen glimpses of Simcoe's true nature, yet decides that he's the one to rescue Hewlett after she expresses feelings for Hewlett?  Sigh.  OTOH, I am loving Simcoe.

[Iboatedhere]

This was quite a change from the dude-fest of last week. Not that I don't love the guys, but it was nice to see women in big roles for a change. Especially Abigail. I love her. But I do wish there was more Ben and Caleb. Always more Ben and Caleb, show. Always. I loved what little we saw of them. Caleb is right- Abe is a 'dumb bastard' and I would kick his ass too, Ben.

 

Simcoe is a total creep. I know this. I hate that I kind of feel bad for him. He basically told Anna that he was just a boy, standing in front of a girl, asking her to love him. He doesn't deserve it and I don't want to see it but.....I don't know. I'm glad he turned Anna down. I wouldn't have been okay with that no matter what the reason was.

"Get on with it. I suspect it will be quick." - Colonial burn!

 

Mary really likes to burn things.

 

I like Andre and Abigail even though I'm worried for her. I don't know if he suspects anything yet but she should've memorized and burned the note that was in the ship. I screamed when she put it back in there. I wish everyone on this show could take a class about being a spy.

 

Richard is still a dick ("the women are emotional" wtf?) but he dislikes Abe just as much as I do so maybe I'm a dick too.

 

Andre is a hot nerd.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Iboatedhere

[Kabota]

This episode was another tense one and contained something that's been sorely lacking: character development/screen time for the females. The scenes between Richard and the women were charged. Mary may look like a delicate flower, but she is one tough little pyromaniac underneath. And a bit of a loose cannon. She and Anna conspiring together works for me. Threw up a bit in my mouth during the Simcoe/Anna scenes, though. Ew. Just. Ew. Despite the women's determination, we do see the restrictions within which they had to operate, true to the times.

Abigail really is in a tough spot, being pressured from both sides as it were. If Andre can get Cicero for her, I don't see any motivation for her spying for the rebels. I mean, she's supposed to have grown up with Anna, but unless there's something more that we don't know, it's hard to see why she would remain 355. She and Peggy seemed to get on well.

Andre's certainly living the dream! Peggy's given her heart, and Arnold seems to be playing right into his plans with that letter to her. Suave and accomplished he may be, but I'm actually SO ready for some of Andre's carefully laid plans to be mucked up. (Go ahead, throw things!)

Hope I don't have to wait until his really big oops.

I did find it interesting, that when Andre met with Sutherland, who offered to look for Culper, Andre told him to continue his present assignment. Methinks we've not seen the last of Scarface. Maybe Simcoe at Oyster Bay will be the key to Robert Townsend's coming round to the ring?

Then, again, there is no ring at this point. What book is this based on again? Lol. Considering the way episode 5 ended with 4 distinct gut wrenching cliffhangers, this episode did fall a bit flat for me. I think mainly because there wasn't any real forward progress on those fronts. A bit more depth to Abe's predicament, perhaps, but we don't see Hewlett at all. Washington apparently fires Ben, but that's offscreen. No mention of Sackett or the seal or Thevenau DeFrancey or Rogers?! C'mon!

Edited May 12, 2015 by Kabota

[Iboatedhere]

Threw up a bit in my mouth during the Simcoe/Anna scenes, though. Ew. Just. Ew. Despite the women's determination, we do see the restrictions within which they had to operate, true to the times.

 

 

I'm pretty sure Anna threw up in her mouth a little bit after she had to kiss him.

[OrientalAmish]

“My son is in prison. And Major Hewlett is captured. There’s no one left for you to crawl into bed with here. Get out of my house… now." —Judge Woodhull to Anna

 

OUCH! What a way to tell a lady that you think she's a slut....Can they give JJ Feild his own spinoff please? 

Perhaps if he cut off that braid. :) Otherwise, yeah, he's pretty smokin'.

 

He has short hair IRL + o.O my lord, he is WOW! He looked so good in Austenland....If I saw Neve Campbell IRL, I'd like to high-five her for bearing him kids + having his <3....

Edited May 12, 2015 by OrientalAmish

[OrientalAmish]

AND

 

the award for the Most Awkward Kiss goes to Anna + Simcoe!

[Primetimer]

Whole lotta loose lips on this week's Turn, but will they sink ships? And which ones?

Read the story

[bmoore4026]

I'm guessing Abraham wasn't in this episode much (and probably the next couple of episodes) due to Jamie Bell filming The Fantastic Four movie that may or may not due well at the box office and thus determining movie rights issues?

[Kabota]

I'm guessing Abraham wasn't in this episode much (and probably the next couple of episodes) due to Jamie Bell filming The Fantastic Four movie that may or may not due well at the box office and thus determining movie rights issues?

Fantastic Four wrapped early August last summer, before filming for TURN began.

[bmoore4026]

Fantastic Four wrapped early August last summer, before filming for TURN began.

 

Ah, so it's a plot thing.

[stanleyk]

Considering the way episode 5 ended with 4 distinct gut wrenching cliffhangers, this episode did fall a bit flat for me. I think mainly because there wasn't any real forward progress on those fronts.

 

This episode dragged a little bit for me, for these reasons. It felt a little bit like treading water to me, which brings up unwelcome flashbacks to all of S1. I thought I wanted to see more of the women, but this distaff episode didn't interest me much. Whither the spying, I ask you? Though this season has certainly picked up the pace and excitement level over last, I'd love it more if they actually did some spying - there are flashes of promise, but the show seems to get bogged down in its ongoing plots over operation-of-the-week plots, which I think I'd prefer.

 

And while I appreciate the attempt to focus on them, the ladies didn't exactly cover themselves in glory. Anna's attempt to "seduce" Simcoe was both weird and pathetic. Did she actually think that would work? She framed it as "I'm in love with someone else, so if you save that guy, I guess I have to let you screw me." Yay? I mean, Simcoe may be a psycho, but I can't imagine anyone with even a drop of humanity thinking it sounds like a great deal for your crush to have unwilling sex with you in payment for you saving someone she actually cares about. Does she think the prospect of sex with her is so entrancing that a man will sally forth, knowing she is unwilling and into someone else, just to get some? Especially after she told him in no uncertain terms that she hated him and the only way he'd ever get in her pants was by raping her. I've never liked the Anna character much, and this episode didn't do anything to change that. 

 

It also may be true to the period, but it's kind of a bummer that Anna's actual spy shenanigans so far seem to require her to exploit her sexuality (same for Peggy, actually). And as for Mary, I'd love for her to get more interesting, but I found the actress...not great in her big scene with Woodhull Sr and I have concerns if she's a big factor in the story going forward.

 

But, whatever. I'm still in. Andre! Simcoe! Very little Abe! Woodhull Sr. getting smacked down! All good things.

[LittleIggy]

Peggy Shippen discusses her romantic life with a slave, asking her to call her "Peggy"? Yeah, that rings true!

[HalcyonDays]

I mentioned this a couple of episodes ago, but the show seems too modern at times, in terms of the behaviour and actions of the people. I doubt Andre would ever appear to any guest in a robe and half undone shirt. (not that I am complaining). Not sure if someone in the house would wander around naked, save for a hastily tied robe (not that I am complaining). I know not everyone was like this, but there was a formality in this time, to the point of many husband and wives sleeping together quite clothed and covered up. It feels like more modern clothing and behaviours with people who are dressed like those in the 18th century. Even with Peggy falling into bed with Andre (not like I would say no either), but for her, there is the risk of pregnancy of course and being caught, which would seriously damage her reputation and status, so it rang a bit false to me.

 

Andre greeting a guest - especially a female guest - wearing what he was didn't ring true to me historically. Also, Peggy showing up at Andre's house alone, no escort and seemed to be there for a long time (overnight it seemed?), which doesn't ring true either.

 

However, to be utterly shallow - I got JJ Feild looking hot as hell wearing almost nothing and dammit - he's a good looking man. *sigh*. My second shallow comment is that my god, Ksenia Solo is SKIN-EE. Her waist has got to be like 20 inches. She is so tiny and small and THIN. Where are her internal organs stored?? Does she corset train? Dammit.

 

/end shallow comments.

 

This episode wasn't as good as the previous ones, and the show still doesn't know what to do with the ladies. Judge Woodhull is an ass and didn't hesitate throwing around the insults, which was telling. I hate that they can only have the women be sexual objects for the men, but then, what else is new for the history of humanity??

 

I did feel for Simcoe - I like him, know he's an ass, but come on, Anna. One day you're clearly disgusted by Simcoe and insulting him, the next you're all flirty and sweet - dude's not fooled, hence the small smile after she left his room. I don't like him wanting to kill Hewlett, but like his determination and he's no fool.

 

Hewlett, Ben and Caleb were sorely missed. Mary is a crazy pyro - terrible spy but dammit, imagine the insanity and damage she could cause if she put her mind to it!!

[attica]

"Get on with it. I suspect it will be quick."

 

Get some aloe for that burn! Heeee!

 

In the Anna/Simcoe smooching scene, I felt for Heather Lind -- she really had to streeeettch to reach Roukin's face. He's very tall; she's very not-tall.

 

Other anachronism: Tallmadge's use of 'going rogue'. Stop doing that, show.

 

A thing I've grown kind of fond of is the sound effect of quill-scratching when the chyron announces place and date. There's no reason for that to be added; I like that they do. 

[bemo]

Mary implying Anna should risk herself with Simcoe was horrible and Anna's 'If I do that then you have to grovel with his dad' was nowhere near the same level of sacrifice.

[red rph]

I wonder why Abigail doesn't stop spying for the rebels. If Andre brings her son to live with her and she continues spying, I won't believe it. Is this what really happened?

[LittleIggy]

It sounded as if Peggy told her father she was having a sleepover at a girlfriend's house whereas she was sneaking off to Andre's. Another anachronism.

[EyewatchTV211]

I wonder why Abigail doesn't stop spying for the rebels. If Andre brings her son to live with her and she continues spying, I won't believe it. Is this what really happened?

Very little is actually known about Agent 355 besides that 355 actually just means "Lady." I think she was also based out of New York only. The writers decided to create this character to be 355 and anything personal with Abigail and her son is fiction created by the writers of the show and did not actually happen. I wonder - if her son does come to live with her and she has no reason to spy - would the writers make someone else 355 in the future? Since there is no specific name associated with 355 like the others, just Lady, maybe they are going to change it up and have that spy be more than one person over the course of the show. Or they'll just find some other way to complicate the story and continue to have Abigail be 355.

[ketose]

Anna Strong didn't have a number, she could have been 355 for all we know.

[HalcyonDays]

Anna Strong didn't have a number, she could have been 355 for all we know.

 

In Alexander Rose's book, he includes several excerpts from letters that Tallmadge and Culper wrote. One that Culper (Abe Woodhull) wrote says this:

 

"I intend to visit 727 before long and think by the assistance of a 355 of my acquaintance, shall be able to outwit them."

 

727 = New York

355 = Lady (as VMepicgrl said), and A. Rose says there was only one reference to 355 in all of the letters found, and it is supposed to be Anna Strong herself.

[ganesh]

Good for Anna using the invisible ink to inform the guys at Valley Forge what's going on. I think Washington is rather short sighted dismissing Ben as head of intelligence though. That last failure wasn't entirely on him. 

 

I do like the smarmy lilt to Simcoe's voice. It makes me want to slap him. 

 

I when Andre was playing his little song for Peggy I said, "Good thing she's on that fancy couch because she might have hurt herself from the swoon otherwise." 

 

Good for Abe's wife finally calling BS on the Judge. That's exactly what he's doing: hedging his bet. He's going to leave Abe in prison to "teach him a lesson." *eyeroll* 

[pasdetrois]

I've recovered enough from my swoon at seeing Andre half-clothed to post that I cannot get past the casting of Peggy. It seems so wrong, or maybe the actress just cannot pull it off. I understand the Marie Antoinette-style wigs in public, as it was the fashion. But the massive curly wig cascading down her naked back as she stood at the window just screamed Hollywood. It was bigger than she is. And the forehead full of Botox and false eyelashes. Takes me completely out of the story.

[Indi]

Yeah, she's not the greatest casting choice, but not the worst I've ever seen either. I think it's funny she's supposed to be "the most beautiful woman in America". Damn, America! You were severely lacking back then! Anyway, André makes up for everything lacking elsewhere.

 

Which brings me to my next point. How is it even possible that JJ Feild doesn't have his own cable show? Someone should fix that immediately. UNF!

[Ujio]

Major Hewlett's wig looked SO lonely without its owner :-(

 

As much as I like Jamie Bell as an actor, this episode showed how much more interesting (and fast-paced) the show can be without the character of Abe. I totally agree with those upthread that said Ben and Caleb should be the leading men. I think a show with those two plus Andre (yes, yum), Washington (I don't have a problem with Ian Kahn's acting unlike some critics), Arnold, and Anna (with Simcoe as the obvious villain and Hewlett as the romantic interest [wow, I would not have uttered those words last season]) doing actual spy stuff and outwitting one another (and dealing with consequences -- good or bad) would be great. Okay, maybe this belongs to the "reboot a show" thread.

 

Judge Woodhull getting called on for his wishy-washiness was great. I actually find his character so much more interesting than Abe's, to be honest.

 

Last but not least, my token shallow comment of the week: Samuel Roukin looks SO much more handsome without the wig. The darker hair looks great on him. I also think Simcoe is so much more menacing when he is not way over the top.

[EyewatchTV211]

Yeah, she's not the greatest casting choice, but not the worst I've ever seen either. I think it's funny she's supposed to be "the most beautiful woman in America". Damn, America! You were severely lacking back then! Anyway, André makes up for everything lacking elsewhere.

 

America probably was lacking then. Historians and various sources have reported how, over time, women have gotten more attractive while men have stayed about the same. Not sure what they look at in making that assertion, considering the traits we consider attractive have changed over time. But there you go.

 

Regarding 355, I did not read A. Rose's book, but I read the other book on the same topic (by Kilmeade and Yaeger). I looked back at the book today so I wasn't relying on my terrible memory. They do not have the same theory as A. Rose that Anna Strong was 355. They mention her as a possibility, but apparently the reference to 355 as "Lady" versus "Woman" said one thing about the person, and other information available made it seem to them like 355 would have had access to elite parties in Manhattan and interacted with Loyalists and likely had the trust of British officers, interacting with Andre. They find it doubtful that a "fortyish housewife, mother, and spouse of a well-known Patriot rabble-rouser would have ventured from Long Island to Manhattan to attend parties..." Though Anna and Abe do get into Andre's one party on the show. Their theory is someone who was actually attached to a prominent Loyalist family, whether a daughter with her own mind or extended relation staying with the family in the city. Also, they theorize that 355 was introduced to Woodhull and the ring by Townsend. She started showing up in Woodhull's letters starting the day Townsend and Woodhull first met and after, never before. 

 

So interesting! This is what makes history fun. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by VMepicgrl

[Haleth]

Moved to Real History thread.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Haleth

[HalcyonDays]

America probably was lacking then. Historians and various sources have reported how, over time, women have gotten more attractive while men have stayed about the same.

 

I would love to know why? I would speculate that with all women, the repetitive child-bearing did a  number on them. For those more lower-class, the daily labour and toil simply to survive would do it. And with higher class woman, the toxic makeups and beauty treatments did their own damage to woman?

 

Is that why?

 

ETA: See - the men hung out drinking and smoking all of the time, and yet they were just as attractive. Wine, Beer, Spirits and a smoke really are good for you! I knew it *grin*

[ketose]

America probably was lacking then. Historians and various sources have reported how, over time, women have gotten more attractive while men have stayed about the same. Not sure what they look at in making that assertion, considering the traits we consider attractive have changed over time. But there you go.

If you have reasonably good old photographs, there are symmetry and proportion ratios that are considered attractive across multiple societies around the world. That and the fact that men tended to marry younger women, so their genetic material was of higher quality. 

[Hanahope]

if her son does come to live with her and she has no reason to spy

 

Not to mention lack of means if she has no reason to send "gifts" back home to Setauket.

 

America probably was lacking then. Historians and various sources have reported how, over time, women have gotten more attractive while men have stayed about the same. Not sure what they look at in making that assertion, considering the traits we consider attractive have changed over time. But there you go.

 

One could say that as more people had more choice as to their partners, the men tended to choose more attractive women and thus more attractive girls were born.  Men stayed the same because even ugly men could choose a more attractive sex partner.

[millennium]

Anna Strong didn't have a number, she could have been 355 for all we know.

 

I think she's a perfect 10.