S03.E10: Unconscious

[Avaleigh]

Yes, I think that this episode showed that Real!Norma and Norman's relationship fell apart just as Head!Norma and Norman's relationship got much closer. Norman said "I do" to Head!Norma. I think *she's* the one he's going to love and be loyal to from now on.

 

He might even end up killing real!Norma to protect the version of his mother that's in his head. I think it's likely that real!Norma and head!Norma will seem (to Norman) to be enemies -- with real!Norma trying to get rid of head!Norma (through mental health "treatment" if nothing else). I think that Norman might ultimately come to head!Norma's defense against real!Norma -- and that might be what ultimately gets Norma killed.

 

He's already so suspicious of his real mother, and wants to get away from her. I think it would be easy for him to convince himself that real!Norma is the delusion, and head!Norma is the loving, devoted, loyal mother who he has to protect.

Come join us in the speculation thread. I agree and my thoughts are very similar. I definitely think that vision!Norma is going to try to get Norman to turn on the real Norma. I also think that vision!Norma is going to hate Dylan. 

[FoundTime]

Thought it was a nice touch that Bradley made her bed etc. at the motel before going to rob/trash her mother’s house – just in case Norma looked in on that room for whatever reason. As for the robbing/trashing, I thought the latter was a bit over the top. It would have been much more subtle/disturbing for them to find that all their valuables – kept places only another family member would know about – were gone, rather than the extra added destruction. Maybe that’s just the way of the teenage mind, to go over the top!
 

I think Bradley might be seen as “annoying” not so much as a default position but more because of how her character was initially portrayed. She was kind of a mean girl who slept with Norman only for her own selfish reasons, not realizing how sensitive he is (putting the best possible face on that!). She certainly wasn’t drawn to be as sympathetic a character as Emma.

 

This was a real turning point, the first time we saw Norman kill in the “real time” of the show. Killing his father was in flashback IIRC, and we were never shown that he killed Miss Watson. (He saw Mother and he blacked out, but that is all the viewers saw, notwithstanding Mother’s timely intervention in the lie detector.) I have to disagree that Norman is “responsible” in any “traditional” way for his behavior, though. He is clearly mentally ill, and only kills at Mother’s provocation. It remains to be seen how much memory of Bradley’s killing he will retain.
 

All during the DylEmma scene, I kept imagining that he was thinking, “Do you know what I went through to get the money to bump you up on the transplant list?!” but of course he is a better person than I am, so he was thinking different thoughts, heh.
 

I do believe Norman is “caught” at the end of Psycho. Isn’t the last scene him sitting in an interrogation room speaking as Mother? I would guess he would’ve been committed sooner rather than later after that.
 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the showrunners said that we would see Norman’s evolution ramp up significantly this season, that there would be no doubt of where the show was going. Done and done.
 

Finally, do real-life female DEA agents show that much cleavage, or just TV ones? I find that annoying. How hard is to put the woman in a traditional (conservative/government agency-appropriate) business suit?

[J----av]

This episode just flew by for me--I wanted it to keep going. I think we all knew Bradley was a dead girl walking, but it was, indeed, the transition from Norman to Mother!Norma! that made it a shock. It totally worked.

 

I really, truly hope they don't wind up killing Emma. I don't have much hope for the rest of the characters, Dylan included, but I want Emma to live!!

 

 Unfortunately Emma is in more danger now then ever before (Dylan too). "Mother" never had a reason to want Emma dead before (was genuinely good to Norman and she had a short life expectancy), but now Emma just broke up with a severely mentally ill Norman and then got with his brother a few days after. Emma/Dylan getting together is probably the start of what turns "mother" against them.

 

 I always thought and hoped Emma would be the one to make it out alive. Especially since the writers give her so much fan service. Now i see her as one of Normans last kills before he kills Norma. Maybe even after he kills Norma. I could see her as one of the 2 girls they talked about in Psycho that went missing from the motel.

Edited May 12, 2015 by J----av

[dohe]

Emma is designed to be loved.  Even tonight, everything she does is designed to make her loveable in the viewer's eyes.  That is part of why she does not register for me.  The character seems less a person and more a sort of wish fulfillment of attributes with the intent to elicit universal approval - she is dying of a debilitating illness but it is with a brave face, she is soft-spoken, she is loyal to the Bates family, she doesn't show heavy externalized emotions, sadness is communicated through her watery eyes, she only has her Father who she is respectful to - even their recent argument is soft and gentle, she doesn't judge others, she doesn't want to inconvenient anyone, she is welcoming and understanding.  Frankly, she is idealized to a point that I sort of wonder if the character is written with chuckles in the writer's room.  I don't demand characters do bad things but she is all but a saint. 

 

Whereas Norman, Norma, Dylan, Romero, Cody, the late Bradley, Caleb all had some nuance, Emma is some wish-fulfillment character, someone who seems designed with an implication that her character is needed because some audiences can't handle teenage females unless they are some tragic, loving figure.  

 

I hope the Dylan romance is a step in the writers allowing the character some more freedom. 

 

I think Bradley might be seen as “annoying” not so much as a default position but more because of how her character was initially portrayed. She was kind of a mean girl who slept with Norman only for her own selfish reasons, not realizing how sensitive he is (putting the best possible face on that!). She certainly wasn’t drawn to be as sympathetic a character as Emma.

 

I never saw Bradley being depicted as a mean girl.  As for sleeping with Norman, that was not a one-sided thing.  Norman wanted to sleep with her too and he was certainly aware her Dad had died - a beyond vulnerable time for any teen.  At that point, Bradley, in a state of loss, wanted to connect to the person she felt closest with. I can't equate that with selfishness for either Norman or Bradley.  They just both had different perspectives of what it meant to them the morning after but neither was acting out of cruelty or with no regard for the other one's feelings in that moment.   Bradley running to him demonstrated she did care about Norman.  She felt bad to hurt his feelings and still wanted his friendship.  There was nothing mean there. 

Edited May 12, 2015 by dohe

[peacheslatour]

 

This was a real turning point, the first time we saw Norman kill in the “real time” of the show. Killing his father was in flashback IIRC, and we were never shown that he killed Miss Watson. (He saw Mother and he blacked out, but that is all the viewers saw, notwithstanding Mother’s timely intervention in the lie detector.) I have to disagree that Norman is “responsible” in any “traditional” way for his behavior, though. He is clearly mentally ill, and only kills at Mother’s provocation. It remains to be seen how much memory of Bradley’s killing he will retain.

Good point.

[J----av]

Emma is designed to be loved.  Even tonight, everything she does is designed to make her loveable in the viewer's eyes.  That is part of why she does not register for me.  The character seems less a person and more a sort of wish fulfillment of attributes with the intent to elicit universal approval - she is dying of a debilitating illness but it is with a brave face, she is soft-spoken, she is loyal to the Bates family, she doesn't show heavy externalized emotions, sadness is communicated through her watery eyes, she only has her Father who she is respectful to - even their recent argument is soft and gentle, she doesn't judge others, she doesn't want to inconvenient anyone, she is welcoming and understanding.  Frankly, she is idealized to a point that I sort of wonder if the character is written with chuckles in the writer's room.  I don't demand characters do bad things but she is all but a saint. 

 

Whereas Norman, Norma, Dylan, Romero, Cody, the late Bradley, Caleb all had some nuance, Emma is some wish-fulfillment character, someone who seems designed with an implication that her character is needed because some audiences can't handle teenage females unless they are some tragic, loving figure.  

 

I hope the Dylan romance is a step in the writers allowing the character some more freedom. 

 

I never saw Bradley being depicted as a mean girl.  As for sleeping with Norman, that was not a one-sided thing.  Norman wanted to sleep with her too and he was certainly aware her Dad had died - a beyond vulnerable time for any teen.  At that point, Bradley, in a state of loss, wanted to connect to the person she felt closest with. I can't equate that with selfishness for either Norman or Bradley.  They just both had different perspectives of what it meant to them the morning after but neither was acting out of cruelty or with no regard for the other one's feelings in that moment.   Bradley running to him demonstrated she did care about Norman.  She felt bad to hurt his feelings and still wanted his friendship.  There was nothing mean there. 

 

 She had a BF when she slept with him. It seemed like she only started paying any attention to him (after they slept together) when she needed help covering up a murder. Even then the show made it look like she only came to him because Dylan was ignoring her and Norman was still obsessed with her and said he would do anything for her. Like helping her cover for what she did

[rue721]

I never saw Bradley being depicted as a mean girl.  As for sleeping with Norman, that was not a one-sided thing.  Norman wanted to sleep with her too and he was certainly aware her Dad had died - a beyond vulnerable time for any teen.  At that point, Bradley, in a state of loss, wanted to connect to the person she felt closest with. I can't equate that with selfishness for either Norman or Bradley.  They just both had different perspectives of what it meant to them the morning after but neither was acting out of cruelty or with no regard for the other one's feelings in that moment.   Bradley running to him demonstrated she did care about Norman.  She felt bad to hurt his feelings and still wanted his friendship.  There was nothing mean there. 

 

I think Bradley was impulsive and reckless, and she could be pretty violent, and all that makes me think that one day, if she'd had the chance to grow up, she might actually have become a bad person or dangerous. Or maybe not. Maybe she would have sown her wild oats and settled down. Who knows.

 

The thing that's notable about Bradley, imo, is how young she was. She was still a kid even in this episode, when she died. The tantrum in her mom's house, the impractical plans for fencing a ton of stolen jewelry (somehow), the bitterness toward and fixation on her parents even while she trying to be independent of them, wanting to run away again even though the last time she did, it was apparently a "living hell," opening up to Norman without a thought and trusting him so absolutely -- she seemed to me like what she was, an adolescent still. Not a grownup yet.

 

That's basically how I've always thought of her -- as a kid. One scene that really solidified my sense that Bradley was very young, basically still a child, was when she was about the run off, and she and Dylan were at the diner waiting for her bus. He told her to write a note, and then asked if she needed help with what to write. The way that she said "no, I can do it" and then wrote this really simple, straightforward note to Norman about him being the best person she's ever known, just made her seem *so* childlike to me. Not in a bad way, actually in a very endearing way.

 

It's not that I hated her, but she seemed so childlike to me, that I wasn't really interested in her as an individual. She just wasn't very interesting (yet) imo. This season, she seemed like she'd maybe grown up a little? But she still didn't seem like an adult. She still didn't seem fully formed yet. There still didn't seem like there was a lot of substance to her. Not because she was written to be two-dimensional or because she was frivolous or shallow. But because she was still *so young.*

 

That's part of what made her death so horrible imo. She got her head crushed in before she'd even had a chance to have a life. She hadn't even become a woman yet. She was only just BARELY no longer a child. She'll never have a chance to grow up.

 

I also think that vision!Norma is going to hate Dylan. 

 

I agree. I would think that, to Norman, it would have to seem like suddenly, everyone loves Dylan best, and Norman is the one left out in the cold. Dylan is the one who Norma goes to for help, Dylan is the one who has all these connections to the town and isn't on lockdown at the house/motel, Dylan is the one who gets to grow up, Dylan is the one who gets to be a man instead of a little boy. Norma even refers to him as a man. I think that Norman is going to have a lot of trouble dealing with jealousy/envy over all that.

 

I think that it's going to feel to Norman like the only one on his side and who isn't trying to hold him back is vision!Norma. It might feel to him like it's real!Norma & Dylan v. vision!Norma & Norman.

 

I think that vision!Norma is likely to attack real!Norma and Norman is likely to attack Dylan over that rivalry.

[truthaboutluv]

The Norma/Bradley sex and post-sex is exactly what I was referring to when I said the show did a 180 on the character and that storyline and that's when I started finding the character annoying. I said it back then in S1 and still feel that the initial part of Bradley and Norman's story did make it seem like Bradley was definitely interested in Norman as more than just a friend.  

 

It wasn't just her randomly coming up to him at a bus stop, sitting on his lap, taking a picture of her in his lap but her "pursuing" that friendship. She came to his house equipped with a lie to tell Norma, to get him to come to a party with her and during that time, it was very ambiguous that the creepy guy was her boyfriend because she certainly didn't act like the guy was her boyfriend when he was around with her and Norman. And then her dad died and she was grieving understandably and the sex was definitely a consequence of that. And I did think she tried to be kind when telling Norman it was a mistake and she didn't want a relationship with him. 

 

It was everything after that started to annoy me. All of a sudden Norman is hearing her friends saying she never had any interest him in ever but just saw him as a puppy and basically acting like Norman was this delusional freak who imagined any interest in him. Then she's at the dance with the boyfriend she didn't seem to acknowledge before who then comes and beats Norman up for supposedly looking at and "harassing" her. Then she meets Dylan once and practically starts undressing him with her eyes in that scene and suddenly she needs answers about her dad's death that only Dylan can help her with.

 

Then she finds out her dad had a mistress (again, the guy was heavily involved in the drug trade but somehow this was so hard and unbelievable for her even though she barely seemed to like her mother so who cares if her dad was cheating on her) and goes on this over the top spiral and it was one thing after another. I always said that I felt like the writers did a 180 with Bradley's character to facilitate Norman's early spiral on the show.

 

Because again, when we first meet Norman, he's quiet sure and a bit socially awkward but for the most part he's a fairly normal kid. But when things turned with Bradley, suddenly he's getting bullied, being laughed at for thinking Bradley ever wanted him, then she's showing up at the motel but to look for Dylan which of course makes him feel shittier and by the end things are spiraling, leading to the events with Ms. Watson. Unfortunately with Bradley, this inconsistency and yes the actress' mediocre acting and monotone voice just made her incredibly annoying to me. 

Edited May 12, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[natyxg]

Well that certainly made me feel a certain way.  Norman/Norma killing Bradley - though we saw it coming from a mile away - was horrible.  It made me so sad for her to have this boy snap and kill her for no reason and how alone she must have felt knowing that nobody will even miss her.  She really did like and respect him, so you can add betrayal to the list.  More on this later.

 

I agree. I have a terrible memory, so I don't remember the details, but I remember that I found Bradley annoying in season 1 (maybe it was the actress?) and I was glad when she left. But this return was very sad, and it was even sadder in the end when, like you said, she was murdered for no reason by this boy she trusted. The only person she trusted at this point, probably.

[dohe]

 She had a BF when she slept with him. It seemed like she only started paying any attention to him (after they slept together) when she needed help covering up a murder. Even then the show made it look like she only came to him because Dylan was ignoring her and Norman was still obsessed with her and said he would do anything for her. Like helping her cover for what she did

Yes, she turned to Norman instead of her boyfriend when she was in despair over her Dad's death.  As with many people, she turned to the person she had come to see as most caring about her instead of her boyfriend in a time of grief.  The problem ended up being that while Bradley cares for Norman and sees him as a good friend, she ultimately does not see him as a lover.  The problem that soon became apparent is Bradley and Norman weren't on the same wavelength.  Norman's jump to this is my girlfriend differed from Bradley's perspective.  Neither was wrong here.  It happens.  However, as often happens when these lines are blurred, the dynamic of the friendship was upended by it.  If Bradley was not cognizant of Norman's feelings and did not want to remain friends, she would not have run after him.  However there was an unmistakable tension there from Norman and, as with pretty much anyone would have been in her position, Bradley was left uncomfortable.

 

When Bradley went to Norman, after killing someone, it was because, when it comes down to it, she trusted Norman.  When placed in traumatic situations, she wanted that close friend near here.  In that episode, there was no ignoring of her by Dylan.  She went to Norman because, when it came down to it, she felt that Norman was the only one who could comprehend her and where she was at.  What becomes unsettling to me is the notion that if a woman does not fulfill the male's desires, the woman is somehow mean or cruel.  That by Bradley not wanting Norman to be her boyfriend somehow cancels out that she could go to him when she is in big trouble.   

[ganesh]

I've liked about a million girls that haven't liked me back or immediately put me in the friend zone. It's not anyone's fault. It happens all the time.

I can see how Norman might have gotten a mixed message because of the sex.

[truthaboutluv]

What becomes unsettling to me is the notion that if a woman does not fulfill the male's desires, the woman is somehow mean or cruel.  That by Bradley not wanting Norman to be her boyfriend somehow cancels out that she could go to him when she is in big trouble.

 

 

I don't think anyone is saying Bradley was an awful person for simply not wanting Norman as a boyfriend. However, yes it is callous to have sex with someone just because you are in pain, with little regard to how they feel about you and when you have a boyfriend. What was the point of this boyfriend if she couldn't even reach out to him in her time of grief but instead some boy she'd only just met a few months ago? But that's really neither here nor there in my opinion.

 

No, Bradley not wanting Norman as a boyfriend does not mean she has no business to ever go to him for help when in trouble. However, where it becomes callous on her part is that she didn't just reject him romantically, she then proceeded to pretty much ignore him and later acted like she wanted absolutely nothing to do with him. There was her boyfriend hitting Norman because he and her friends all seemed to think that Norman was harassing her, she barely wanted to acknowledge Norman in the halls at schools and basically acted like they were never friends.

 

Also, see ignoring all his letters to her when she was in a mental institution and then completely ignoring him when he came over to see her when she got out. And it wasn't simply because she wasn't interested in talking to anyone because she was really bothered that Dylan never came to see her or contacted her while she was in the  mental institution. 

 

So yes, after all that, it does seem somewhat selfish and manipulative that when she blows some guy's brains out, the kid she's virtually ignored and treated like she wants nothing to do with, is who she comes to asking for help, possibly asking him to implicate himself in her crime. It sort of belies the whole "she went to the one person she trusts so much and knew she could depend on" because again, where was all that trust when she was treating him like someone she wanted nothing to do with and wanted out of her life?

 

And once again, NONE of that makes Bradley an evil person and definitely does not make her deserving of the tragic end she came to. But it does explain why some, like myself, did not care for her character and feel it's unfair to have it dismissed as being because she was a teenage girl. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Luckylyn]

Part of the problem with any show that is heading toward a certain endpoint is you might not know the mile markers but you know the destination. We know where almost all of these characters are going.  Dylan and Emma have always been the two that could live, that could escape from all this - alive.

I feel like Dylan/Emma are necessary because it's the only place where hope is possible since all the other characters' outcomes are known.  That's what appeals to me about them.   It probably won't end well because so much danger surrounds them, but the fact that happiness for Dylan/Emma is possible even slightly reduces the bleakness of what must happen next for Norman and Norma.

 

Bradly was a tremendous mess of a person.   She was vulnerable and lost.    It's so sad that she was murdered by someone she felt she could trust.  I do think the writing for the character didn't always work making her more plot device than fleshed out character.

[queenanne]

Ah, what a pretty piece of filmmaking.  Norman’s teenaged tantrum reminded me of mine for the first time – “maybe the mental institution people can come early”… Norma told Alex true truths with no coquetry or flying into a passion, which is what he wanted more than the sexual intimacy I think, possibly something about professional pride mixed in (“always knew that kid was a little off”…). 

 

Max was SO GOOD in the basement scene, ditto Freddy’s Vera-esque eye-cuts in the “Mother” scenes (I think the incest creep factor is infused because at the end shot, Freddy kept Norman staring at Norma’s lips in a horribly loverlike manner). 

 

I too used to think Peltz was a pretty bad actor but oddly enough, I saw the Transformers sequel on a bus and now, I think it’s just Bradley, because I found Nicola rather tolerable in that type of an Everygirl role; I must admit it, even likable.  Perhaps she just can’t do mysterious, or perhaps it is as suggested, that Bradley’s motivations are too muddy.  I too in retrospect, remember thinking she was very capricious and all too ready to toy with Norman.

 

Ugh, can it be next season already??

[Rear Window]

Found this on Twitter:

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/bates-motel-season-3-finale-postmortem-118740080185.html

Love that we might see the sanitarium next season!

[radishcake]

OK guys, this is for discussion of this particular episode. I am moving some of the Bradley talk to the specific character thread.

ALSO continuing this arguing back and forth with each other will result in your posts being hidden and warning points issued. Please consider this your warning to snark the show not the posters.

[BatmanBeatles]

My reaction over the song "Be My Baby" after the intense murder scene was:

 

"Say what!" and then, "Oooooh my..."

[missy jo]

As for Dylan, he's long been my TV boyfriend, but now I might have to make him my TV husband.  "You're hitting on me?"  "Well, if you have to ask, I'm doing it wrong."  And of course the warrior line.  Loved the whole scene!

 

 

Same. "Swoon" to the whole thing, but especially "you're a freakin' warrior." They're so adorable together.

[Guest]

That didn't feel very finale-ish.  We all knew Bradley was walking dead.  

 

The act of hitting your ill teen over the head with an iron door stop(?), dragging him unconscious into the basement and tying him up and locking the door cracked me up.  Also Norman's face when he woke up.  

 

And visiting the Ritz of mental institutions without even a diagnosis.  Apparently there are many millionaires with crazy relatives in the area.  

 

If Alex killed Bob solely to protect Norman I'm mad.  Norman needs help, you fool.  I hope he at least did it partly to steal Bob's runaway cash.  Is that why he told him he was jealous of all the criminals' money in town?  Or just to let him know he too was dirty as could be?  I kind of like dirty, shootin' Romero but we never really saw Bob hurt anyone so it wasn't quite as fun as last time he shot assholes down at the dock.  Or am I imagining that we'd seen it before?  And do we know Bob was directly involved with dead hookers?

 

Whatever was the deal with the dead girls anyway?  Did I miss a whole storyline?   

 

All during the DylEmma scene, I kept imagining that he was thinking, “Do you know what I went through to get the money to bump you up on the transplant list?!” 

I said (as Dylan), "I paid $40k for those lungs, the least you could do is try them on!"  

[Andromeda]

Yeah, Bradley was doomed from the start. She lucked out season 1/early season 2, but then she had to come back and visit Norman. With an old car that was just begging to be pushed into the water like in the movie. I just kinda wish the car would've stopped sinking for a few seconds so we'd have that callback, too, but alas. I didn't particularly care for the song at the end--didn't feel it was necessary and it took me out of the moment a bit. Also, knew they would show "Mother" doing the killing, but I would have liked a POV thrown in there from Bradley of Norman doing it. Because her murder wasn't sad enough, apparently. Norman, you can't have nice things...or friends.

I wish we'd had one quick shot of Norman actually committing the deed, too. I'm not even sure why. Maybe because he's really the one responsible, so I want him shown doing what he's doing?

 

Adored Emma and Dylan. I was freaking when she walked out -- but I love how her Dad didn't panic, and Dylan knew just where to find her. I also understand her fear. She'll be back -- of that I have no doubt. It'll be nice to see her without the oxygen tank.

 

Props to Norma for finally looking into help for Norman, but she's going about it all wrong. She goes to a Rolls Royce facility first? He hasn't even been diagnosed. First stop should be a psychiatric appointment and evaluation (of a much higher caliber than James the Therapist.) (Well, first thing is signing up for medical insurance!) Then a treatment plan, and recommendations from mental health experts. To me, Norma knows that -- she knew she couldn't afford that place out of pocket. She was setting up for a failure, because she really isn't ready to let Norman go. She wanted an easy solution (like checking him into a hotel), but nothing about her and Norman's situation is easy.

Such a great season. I'm deeply bummed it's over. I plan to rewatch Psycho (both versions) this summer, maybe the (crappy) sequels too,

because I didn't know about Norma marrying the sheriff in a previous movie until I read it here.

I might rewatch the series, too.

 

P.S. So White Pine Bay is north of Portland -- further up past where St. Helens is, maybe? Or even further along the Columbia River, closer to Astoria? If they're on the coast, there's not a lot north of Portland but still within Oregon. The seaside towns (like Seaside) are almost directly west of Portland.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Andromeda

[Solzhenknitsyn]

I said (as Dylan), "I paid $40k for those lungs, the least you could do is try them on!"

Heh heh.

 

Liked this episode, didn't love it. Maybe because it felt a little fragmented? I don't watch a ton of TV, so I don't know how season finales are generally supposed to work. Is it necessary to have a nod to every single character or storyline on the show? I think it would have made more sense to wrap up Caleb's and Emma's storylines in the penultimate episode, so that they could be explored in a little more depth. I know Caleb and Emma are secondary characters, but I felt their treatment in this episode was a little rushed.

 

I think another weakness is that there was no big storyline to resolve with a rush of action. The DEA agents swoop in on Bob Paris, but there's no dramatic tension there, because none of the main characters is physical danger. Bob Paris is dangerous to Norma, but the danger is conceptual. It doesn't compare to Norman getting thrown into a box by a bonfa fide drug kingpin, or Dylan getting caught in a cartel shootout, or Norma heading down to the docks with a peashooter to square off against a murderous sex trafficker. 

 

(And the writers kind of dropped the dramatic ball on the Arcanum Club. The two sex workers were murdered because of...a flash drive? Containing a spreadsheet? Which Alex simply hands over to the DEA? The drug sideplots are always this show's weak point, and this season's was particularly weak.)

 

However, l lurved the Dylemma kiss. Lurved Emma's medieval-style hoodie. Dylan's like a white knight coming to rescue his ladylove, y'all!

 

Lurved Normero's porch scene. "I'm not here to apologize [except I totally am] . . . ."

 

Bradley's killing was well-shot and disturbing in the extreme. In fact, I could have done without seeing her head getting bashed against a rock, thank you very much.

 

Am I the only one, though, who screamed "HIPAA privacy violation!" at the TV when the psych hospital administrator gestured to the patients and their visitors in the waiting room? I mean, maybe it doesn't rise quite to that level, but I can't imagine an expensive psych hospital letting looky-loos gawk at the patients.

[ganesh]

I wish we'd had one quick shot of Norman actually committing the deed, too. I'm not even sure why. Maybe because he's really the one responsible, so I want him shown doing what he's doing?

 

I think that should actually be for when he finally kills Norma. 

[Avaleigh]

That didn't feel very finale-ish.  We all knew Bradley was walking dead.  

 

The act of hitting your ill teen over the head with an iron door stop(?), dragging him unconscious into the basement and tying him up and locking the door cracked me up.  Also Norman's face when he woke up.  

I thought it was funny too and I was totally wondering what was going on in Norman's head. Normally I'd think that the average person would be panicked and freaked out to wake up in a basement on the ground looking up while they're bound with ropes. With Norman I couldn't help but think of the Leonardo DiCaprio character Jordan Belfort in The Wolf on Wall Street waking up to find himself tied to his seat in the airplane. At first he's like WTF and then it starts to dawn on him that he probably did fuck up and deserve to be restrained. I sort of felt like Norman might be wondering if he'd gone off the deep end again or not. 

[Guest]

Ha, I just read that book over the past week (The Wolf of Wall Street)!

 

Norman's face looked kind of like, "Oh great, my mom clobbered me, hog-tied me and threw me in the basement.  Kinda hot, but also definitely NUTSO.  So just another day in the Bates' home!"  

[maczero]

I didn't.  He called Bob to flee his house.  He told him at the docks that he knew about his boat because of the conversation some time back with it's former owner.  So he knew in advance that was where Bob would flee.  He was therefore there ready to ambush and kill him in advance.  Had nothing to do with pushing psychological buttons when it was all pre-meditative.

Oh I agree it was pre-meditated but Bob's taunting earned him three shots to very painful areas of the body instead of a quick merciful head shot.

 

The lung transplant thing actually annoyed me. Emma's dad was just sitting on his ass all these years waiting for his kid to die, but Emma's crush of a few months is able to drum up the bribe money and get her some donor lungs within like a week? It just felt ridiculous to me.

Someone in another thread posted that $20k isn't an impossible sum to acquire for someone who we assume to be middle class.  If he's known about the bribe sum for a few years then it does seem kind of ridiculous.  Pull some equity out of your home, sell your car, raid your retirement accounts, max out your credit cards.  

 

If Alex killed Bob solely to protect Norman I'm mad.  Norman needs help, you fool.  I hope he at least did it partly to steal Bob's runaway cash.  Is that why he told him he was jealous of all the criminals' money in town?  Or just to let him know he too was dirty as could be?  I kind of like dirty, shootin' Romero but we never really saw Bob hurt anyone so it wasn't quite as fun as last time he shot assholes down at the dock.  Or am I imagining that we'd seen it before?  And do we know Bob was directly involved with dead hookers?

 

Whatever was the deal with the dead girls anyway?  Did I miss a whole storyline?   

Bob doesn't seem to be the type to get his hands dirty but he did have a couple of goons who we assumed he ordered to have the girls killed.  Not to mention, Romero found one of Bob's men (supposedly the one who killed the girls dead) so Bob was directly involved in their murder.

 

As for why the girls were killed, I believe Bob suspected one or both of them of stealing the drive while they were working one of the club's sex parties.  

 

Props to Norma for finally looking into help for Norman, but she's going about it all wrong. She goes to a Rolls Royce facility first? He hasn't even been diagnosed. First stop should be a psychiatric appointment and evaluation (of a much higher caliber than James the Therapist.) (Well, first thing is signing up for medical insurance!) Then a treatment plan, and recommendations from mental health experts. To me, Norma knows that -- she knew she couldn't afford that place out of pocket. She was setting up for a failure, because she really isn't ready to let Norman go. She wanted an easy solution (like checking him into a hotel), but nothing about her and Norman's situation is easy.

Isn't committing someone to mental institution who doesn't want to go pretty tough as well?  I believe the person has to be a threat to the public or to themselves.  Yes, we know Norman's dangerous but the authorities don't have much to go on.  Norman's best chance for having Norman committed involuntarily probably was the d-bag therapist that Norman attacked.

Edited May 13, 2015 by maczero

[Mick Lady]

Mick Lady called the end scene. Nice job! I was distracted at the end of the Bob & Romero boat scene but my DVR is set to record at 10:00.

Loved the Dilemma kiss and yay! Emma agreed to get the lung transplant.

I'm sad this season is over. Was it just me or did this episode overdo it on the commercials?

 

Thank you! I'm never right about such thing, so this was a first.

 

I agree on the commercials... both Mick and I commented on it. I guess season finals bring in the money.

 

I don't think we've seen the last of Caleb, his story seems so unfinished, and Norman needs another victim. Plus, Caleb has such a complex relationship with the family.

 

I have no idea how they can extend this for two more seasons, but I'm in for the ride! I've seen some spoilers, via interviews with the writers, and I have faith in the story they're creating, but I hope someone makes it out of this mess alive!

 

I will miss all of you guys, I don't post a lot on other threads, but I should start. Supernatural is the only show (Mad Men is over soon, and Vikings and BCS are over for the season) that is appointment T.V. for us now.

[rue721]

Someone in another thread posted that $20k isn't an impossible sum to acquire for someone who we assume to be middle class.  If he's known about the bribe sum for a few years then it does seem kind of ridiculous.  Pull some equity out of your home, sell your car, raid your retirement accounts, max out your credit cards.

 

She's an adorable teenage girl who lives in what is apparently one of the richest towns in the country. HAVE A FUNDRAISER FFS. Put out some jars at the convenience stores and school office. Hold a carwash. "There's gold in them there hills." Money is practically spilling out over the streets of White Pine Bay, everybody's rich. That stupid musical that the community center was holding last season probably cost more than Emma's lung transplant bribe. Considering how much money everyone is constantly throwing around, it really shouldn't be THAT tough to get them to throw $20K in Emma's direction.

 

Or Mr. Decody could get a second job! Take out a home equity loan! Let Emma go ahead and keep earning money through her zillions of hours of work at the Bates Motel! Dylan, who at the time was a 21-year-old with no known skills and $0 to his name, managed to save up $10K holding a gun over some pot fields for two months. This isn't a town in a deep recession. It shouldn't be THAT hard to get money even ~the honest way.~

 

Mostly, it just irritated me how passive Mr. Decody was. This is his daughter ffs! It probably wouldn't have looked *that* bad except that then Dylan got it done in literally something like a week. It just exacerbated my annoyance with Mr. Decody that he then sent this rando guy after his daughter to convince her to get new lungs. Can he do ANYTHING himself.

 

Idk, lots of people shit on Norma for not doing enough to help Norman, but what is going on with him is much more nebulous, she has much less of an idea what can be done, and she's looking at (surprise) costs of ~$40K per MONTH to get him taken care of properly, not (a long-expected) $20K total. Meanwhile, Mr. Decody is still basically doing NOTHING for Emma, despite helping her being much more defined and much more doable. If I were Emma, I'd be resentful (and holding a fundraiser for my own damn self because fuck these passive hand-wringers, this is life or death for her). But tbh, Norma is apparently the most involved and loving parent in White Pine Bay so who even knows. Meanwhile, Bradley's mother was throwing all her dead daughter's stuff in Public Storage within months of her supposed suicide, so...*shrug.*

 

Funny that terminally ill Emma threw in her lot with Dylan and is now looking at what may be a pretty long and pretty nice life, and golden girl Bradley threw in her lot with Norman and now she's dead in the woods.

Edited May 13, 2015 by rue721

[Glade]

This was really depressing to watch.  I don't care for all of Norma's pathetic revisionist history.  You failed your son a long time ago, by never seeking help and taking the sick, abusive incest family dynamic with you and making your children live with a father who beat them and yourself.   And as much as people have fixated on Norman killing his father (with one blow, out of defence), Norma was the one who stabbed a handcuffed guy sixty times and then forced her teenage son to drag the body out of the house in the middle of the night and then go to school the next morning.  And then her ridiculously irresponsible political machinations got him kidnapped and locked in a bunker for days, fracturing his psyche.  

 

It's not really that 'psycho' that after so much continued trauma, emotional abuse and manipulation, that he internalized the image of his abusive mother.  But Norma isn't the victim here, and she still isn't helping.  It was disgusting seeing her knocking him out and dragging him into the cellar.  Adult's with mental illness still deserve human rights and self-advocacy.   I think at the beginning of the show, with help, he could have left his mother and recovered.  She prevented that, and so she has a lot of blood on her hands.  Hopefully any pscyhologist would see that. 

[raven]

That was - anitclimactic.  It was expected that Norman would kill Bradley.  I didn't feel much for her, but she wanted to get out and start a new life, what a terrible way to go, poor kid.

 

 

But Norma isn't the victim here, and she still isn't helping.

As much as Vera F was killing it this episode, I do have a hard time feeling badly for Norma.  The brilliant thing about this show was in not making her irredeemably evil and giving her serious issues of her own.  She didn't get Norman help when it might have done some good (and almost certainly have prevented some deaths) partly because of her self-centeredness and partly because of her own disturbances.  We see some of that when Dylan points out that Norman shouldn't be in her bed and that lasts all of maybe one or two nights and she's needy again so back Norman goes. 

 

Norman hasn't been set up as an evil sociopath with no empathy for others.  Whatever his original issue(s) they were exacerbated as Glade points out above by Norma's behavior towards him.  The fact that she sees it now and checks out a place that you can tell at a glance would be way too expensive was so obviously set up by the show as too little, too late. 

 

 

Adult's with mental illness still deserve human rights and self-advocacy.

I guess self-defense could be argued but Norma's always been dramatic in crisis so bonking him on the head was no exception.  Will he feel betrayed or put on an act guided by the other Mother in his head, I wonder.

 

I wonder where they'll go from here - maybe she finds a therapist or place for him and he fakes his way through it (with otherMother for help of course)?  Will she find out about Bradley?  Etc.  Will Norma try to pull off a crazy illegal scheme to pay to get Norman some kind of help?  Is she able to break her own attachment to him? We know how it ends but there's more seasons of material to get through!

 

Dylan and Emma are cute and all but not particularly compelling to watch.  I liked Dylan better when he had an edge and wasn't making the puppy dog eyes so much.  Still I hope their future is away alive together, not to be killed by Norman.

Edited May 14, 2015 by raven

[Guest]

Self-defense?  I thought she just was trying to stop him from leaving her.  

[natyxg]

Props to Norma for finally looking into help for Norman, but she's going about it all wrong. She goes to a Rolls Royce facility first? He hasn't even been diagnosed. First stop should be a psychiatric appointment and evaluation (of a much higher caliber than James the Therapist.) (Well, first thing is signing up for medical insurance!) Then a treatment plan, and recommendations from mental health experts. To me, Norma knows that -- she knew she couldn't afford that place out of pocket. She was setting up for a failure, because she really isn't ready to let Norman go. She wanted an easy solution (like checking him into a hotel), but nothing about her and Norman's situation is easy.

 

I didn't see it like that. I think she's afraid of him now cause she has finally seen how cray cray he is and she IS ready to let him go now, which will probably keep hurting their relationship in the future and make Norman closer to head!Norman. I thought her checking out the fancy clinic was her hoping to put him in a place that wasn't awful

[natyxg]

This was really depressing to watch.  I don't care for all of Norma's pathetic revisionist history.  You failed your son a long time ago, by never seeking help and taking the sick, abusive incest family dynamic with you and making your children live with a father who beat them and yourself.   And as much as people have fixated on Norman killing his father (with one blow, out of defence), Norma was the one who stabbed a handcuffed guy sixty times and then forced her teenage son to drag the body out of the house in the middle of the night and then go to school the next morning.  And then her ridiculously irresponsible political machinations got him kidnapped and locked in a bunker for days, fracturing his psyche.  

 

It's not really that 'psycho' that after so much continued trauma, emotional abuse and manipulation, that he internalized the image of his abusive mother.  But Norma isn't the victim here, and she still isn't helping.  It was disgusting seeing her knocking him out and dragging him into the cellar.  Adult's with mental illness still deserve human rights and self-advocacy.   I think at the beginning of the show, with help, he could have left his mother and recovered.  She prevented that, and so she has a lot of blood on her hands.  Hopefully any pscyhologist would see that. 

 

Norman didn't seek help either even though he knew he blacked out and was afraid that he had killed the teacher. Dylan knew that Norman blacked out too and killed his father, and didn't immediately seek help for him either.

 

Norma killed in a crazy fit a guy who raped her because she was the victim of rape and abuse and the event made her snap. Norman happened to be there, he wasn't going to not do anything about it and not help. If the son in the house had been Dylan he would've helped, too.

 

Apparently Norma is also totally responsible for the actions of other people who were the ones who actually put Norman in a bunker, instead of the people who actually did it. Okay, okay.

 

Internalized the image of his abusive mother? When has Norma acted like the Norma in Norman's head? She looks like a complete fabrication to me, a sexualized and possessive version of Norma because deep down a lot of Norman's crazyness comes from him being sexually attracted to Norma. 

 

She knocked him out in the cellar because she was afraid that he had snapped and was going to get lost out there and hurt himself and/or others, so she couldn't let him go. She was alone and couldn't restrain him herself so she improvised after he had thrown her down some stairs.

 

What I think we see with Norma and the rest of the family is that people will wait until they absolutely have to to do the thing that they don't want to do, or the thing that scares them. I can relate to that a lot. Norma kept hoping that things weren't THAT bad, that the black out with his father was a one time thing, that he killed his father to defend her cause he is such a good boy, that he didn't kill Miss Watson because he passed the polygraph, etc etc. That is human nature, and while being the bigger person would've been the way to go that is not always so easy and people make mistakes. Dylan too ignored that Norman had problems until he saw him snap when Norma left. Another thing to keep in mind is that no one in the show sees Norman like we do, they didn't see the scope of his crazy from the beginning like we did, so them acting when they finally saw it it's not that outrageous, I think. Norma and Dylan can't help but accept the truth now because Dylan saw him lose it when Norma left and role playing her, and Norma saw James freaked out over him, and heard Dylan's tale about Norman role playing her and Caleb told her the same thing, etc.

 

Frankly at this point I have more empathy with Norma than I do with Norman because he is a nutter who kills innocent women. The things that happened to him DIDN'T have to get him there, but there he is and after seeing him break Bradley's head on a rock for no reason my sympathy for him is zero now. Norma is still a human with flaws, to me. Norman is a monster, with a boyish face, but still a monster.

Edited May 15, 2015 by natyxg

[OSM Mom]

Self-defense? I thought she just was trying to stop him from leaving her.

Well Norman pushed her down the stairs in a way. Trying to get her to let go of the suitcase.

[peacheslatour]

Plus the last time he took off like a maniac, he tried to kill himself.

[OSM Mom]

Oh and one more comment.. That place Norma went and looked at was $40,000 a *month*????? Who the f has that much money and what kind of fancy insurance do they have that will pay for that?? I almost fainted.

[BatmanBeatles]

 

Who the f has that much money and what kind of fancy insurance do they have that will pay for that??

Those who are in the pot and sex trade business, apparently.

[Guest]

Well Norman pushed her down the stairs in a way. Trying to get her to let go of the suitcase.

Oh yeah!  I forgot all about that!  

 

Oh and one more comment.. That place Norma went and looked at was $40,000 a *month*????? Who the f has that much money and what kind of fancy insurance do they have that will pay for that?? I almost fainted.

No one's insurance would.  Some of the financial details in this show are pretty goofy.  

[OSM Mom]

Well the lady Norma was talking to said they will work with your insurance. Yeah and the insurance company will tell you to go take a flying leap.

[indeed]

Norma didn't seem confident at all that her insurance (if she even has any!) would cover it. So, it wasn't a realistic option, but she wants the best for her boy. If only she knew Norman drowned about half of that or Dylan paid double what he had to for some lungs!

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, it's on now! What a creepy ending to a very creepy season. The show's done a good job of showing Norman's slow decline.

 

Gotta ask: did anyone else think Norman was just hiding in the basement waiting for both Norma and Dylan to go over to the window and then he could run up the stairs and lock them in the basement? Nicely played show, nicely played!

 

Every season I finish the finale and am thinking there should be at least one more episode...what's up with that?

 

 Unfortunately Emma is in more danger now then ever before (Dylan too). "Mother" never had a reason to want Emma dead before (was genuinely good to Norman and she had a short life expectancy), but now Emma just broke up with a severely mentally ill Norman and then got with his brother a few days after. Emma/Dylan getting together is probably the start of what turns "mother" against them.

 

 I always thought and hoped Emma would be the one to make it out alive. Especially since the writers give her so much fan service. Now i see her as one of Normans last kills before he kills Norma. Maybe even after he kills Norma. I could see her as one of the 2 girls they talked about in Psycho that went missing from the motel.

 

Oh, see, I was thinking Emma was finally safe now because she no longer is a threat to taking Norman away from "Mother". I'm still thinking Dylan will bite it though. Probably tries to get Norman committed or something like that.

[J----av]

Oh, it's on now! What a creepy ending to a very creepy season. The show's done a good job of showing Norman's slow decline.

 

Gotta ask: did anyone else think Norman was just hiding in the basement waiting for both Norma and Dylan to go over to the window and then he could run up the stairs and lock them in the basement? Nicely played show, nicely played!

 

Every season I finish the finale and am thinking there should be at least one more episode...what's up with that?

 

 

Oh, see, I was thinking Emma was finally safe now because she no longer is a threat to taking Norman away from "Mother". I'm still thinking Dylan will bite it though. Probably tries to get Norman committed or something like that.

 I doubt she is safe now. She just left a severally mentally ill and violent (not just when he is "mother") guy for his brother. Freddy also said when Norman finds out he is going to be pissed. Plus Emma will probably fall for Norman again at some point. She won't really have a story anymore unless she falls for Norman again or Norman/Mother see it as betrayal

[DittyDotDot]

But Norman wasn't really into Emma that way and only used their relationship as a way to get under Norma's skin. It was Emma who was into Norman and was the threat to "Mother". Now she's back in the friend zone, so I doubt Norman or "Mother" will be too concerned about her and Dylan. I think the only threat she poses now is knowing too much about Norman and possibly getting caught up in trying to get Norman help. Dylan has the added danger of also being in competition for Norma's affections. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[truthaboutluv]

Plus Emma will probably fall for Norman again at some point.

 

 

Hmm, I don't really see it happening. I mean I guess anything is possible, but as the poster above noted, Norman was never really truly into Emma. In Season 1 he really wanted Bradley, then Season 2 he hooked up with Cody and this season, at first it was almost like an "well why the hell not" with him and then he was creepily using her to try and make Norma jealous. And I think the move to Emma and Dylan and how she so casually and calmly ended things with Norman was to solidify that Emma has definitely moved on from that and solidly placed Norman in the friend zone. Coupled with that is the fact that Norman is now full blown bat shit crazy so I don't know how he'll be able to function properly enough to get Emma to fall for him again, now that she's moved on to Dylan.

 

What I will say is that Emma for whatever crazy reason is totally involved with that family and cares about them and so I can see her still trusting Norman which may prove very, very dangerous for her. In other words, she won't hesitate to go off with Norman or go to him if he tells her he needs her or is in trouble or something and then well, she may end up with a fate similar to Bradley's. Unless of course Dylan and Norma basically start recognizing how dangerous Norman may be and Dylan tells her to stay away from Norman. 

[ganesh]

As long as Mother still likes Emma though, she should be in the clear. I don't think the show should have Norman kill her. It strikes me as over the top. I know we probably need at least one more kill before Norma, and it should have an impact, but I don't know. 

[tennisgurl]

The thing about Norma is, it would be easy for the show to just make her this horrifying monster, who`s cruelty and abuse turned her son into the murderer we know he is going to be how. However, they went the way where, yes, Norma has basically created a monster, but she clearly is capable of love, compassion, and kindness, and has had a horrible life, that she is trying to deal with. Who`s at fault here? Norman is mentally ill, so this killing, while very disturbing, is not really Norman`s fault. Its Norma`s fault for encouraging the creepy incest dynamic, and being rather carelessly emotionally abuse, and, worst of all, not getting him help AGES ago, but who`s fault is that? Her brother? Her own abusive parents? 

 

I love Norma, and find her fascinating, but the show never lets us forget what her messed up parenting and attempts at subterfuge and ambition have screwed Norman up for life, and is arguably responsible for the lives that he has, and will take. But, it still lets you root for her, and feel sympathy for her, and the struggles she has, and how hard she really does seem to be trying to make herself and her family a good life. 

 

Just such a good show, so much to chew on over Summer. 

Edited May 17, 2015 by tennisgurl

[Mick Lady]

The thing about Norma is, it would be easy for the show to just make her this horrifying monster, who`s cruelty and abuse turned her son into the murderer we know he is going to be how. However, they went the way where, yes, Norma has basically created a monster, but she clearly is capable of love, compassion, and kindness, and has had a horrible life, that she is trying to deal with. Who`s at fault here? Norman is mentally ill, so this killing, while very disturbing, is not really Norman`s fault. Its Norma`s fault for encouraging the creepy incest dynamic, and being rather carelessly emotionally abuse, and, worst of all, not getting him help AGES ago, but who`s fault is that? Her brother? Her own abusive parents? 

 

I love Norma, and find her fascinating, but the show never lets us forget what her messed up parenting and attempts at subterfuge and ambition have screwed Norman up for life, and is arguably responsible for the lives that he has, and will take. But, it still lets you root for her, and feel sympathy for her, and the struggles she has, and how hard she really does seem to be trying to make herself and her family a good life. 

 

Just such a good show, so much to chew on over Summer. 

Yeah, I do love Norma!

 

tennisgurl, you just hit on a debate Mick and I have been having; Nature vs nurture. Perhaps we should all meet in the Norman thread. If nothing else, it will give us something to discuss this summer!

[tennisgurl]

Mick Lady, lets continue discussing! I want to keep the Bates Motel conversation going as long as possible! See you in the Norman thread whenever you feel like chatting! 

[DangerousMinds]

If Emma finds out that Dylan and her dad broke the law in paying for her new lungs, IMO she won't be pleased.

[Avaleigh]

Emma doesn't seem that hung up on lawbreaking to me. After all she had no problem driving the marijuana up to Dylan's farm. She also doesn't seem to have a problem with what Dylan does for a living. 

[truthaboutluv]

Yeah I agree. If anything, she might be upset that Dylan put himself in possible danger for her but upset that he got the money by illegal means - doubt it. This is a girl who despite seeing all the Bates family crazy, hell because of it, is even more obsessed with being connected to and a part of the family.