S02.E13: Paid Family Leave

[Athena]

Many American companies do not offer paid leave after the birth of a child, which means they probably shouldn’t run sappy Mother’s Day ads.

[Victor the Crab]

And I imagine Ollie would lead the show off with the British elections and how they unfolded.

[Hanahope]

And I imagine Ollie would lead the show off with the British elections and how they unfolded.

And not sure he's all that happy about it either.

[trow125]

Check out this week's Bugle podcast -- he seems downright shellshocked. I do hope he features it on Sunday's show because there hasn't been much coverage here and I'd love to hear more about it.

[Victor the Crab]

Calllllllled iiiiiiiit!!!!! Although, to be fair, that wasn't the least bit difficult.

 

Trained Russian Seals >>>>> Russia's 70 year celebration of V-E Day.

 

Not rub it in by any means, but here in Canada we give women a full year of paid maternity leave. I can tell you, just from a family reunion, that my female cousins from Michigan were extremely jealous of my sister and the time off she received from giving birth to two sons. But then again, men of the conservative tilt in the U.S. do tend to view women a little possessively.

[AshleyLyn]

I hope that CSPAN guy gets paid decently for all those phone calls he has to deal with.

[attica]

I don't get why proponents of paid family leave don't have a better argument for the nimrods who shriek "job killing regulations!" When every other country on earth can do it and keep their economies going, seems like America the Exceptional ain't so much.

 

Bob Balaban is a very good sport. And I see that Space Gecko has a new gig, which is a relief.

 

Why doesn't everyone put berets on seals? 

[CMH1981]

So that was America Ferrera, Minka Kelly, and Rudy from the Cosby Show in that mother commercial?  I love the celebrities they are able to get for this show, such as Bob Balaban who was mystified being surrounded by all those mascots.  It was great.

 

The story about the mother who had her baby premature over the weekend then she and her husband went back to work the following Monday while the baby was still in the NICU was jaw dropping.  I can't imagine any employer not telling her to go be with her child that Monday when she showed up for work.  I understand why she went back to work but damn.  

[dusang]

Not rub it in by any means, but here in Canada we give women a full year of paid maternity leave. I can tell you, just from a family reunion, that my female cousins from Michigan were extremely jealous of my sister and the time off she received from giving birth to two sons. But then again, men of the conservative tilt in the U.S. do tend to view women a little possessively.

 

Technically, we have 15 weeks of MATERNITY leave and 35 weeks of PARENTAL leave.  I know several fathers who have taken advantage of the parental leave.

 

I was at company training in NYC and a woman there had given birth like four months earlier and was back at work.  I asked how long they had for mat leave (as an employee of the SAME company I work for) and she said they had a "very generous" three months.  She was like, "what, do you guys have a year?"  When I nodded yes she was shocked.  And envious.

[ganesh]

I tend to think 'job killing' is just a catch-all excuse when there's nothing else to argue. Kind of like the ACA would cost jobs.

 

I lived in Japan. Those people are crazy.

[transgojobot]

So that was America Ferrera, Minka Kelly, and Rudy from the Cosby Show in that mother commercial? 

 

Yes. That was American Ferrera; good seeing her again. The other two actresses were Erinn Hayes (Minka) and Adrienne Warren (Rudy).

 

Thank the maker(s), for Last Week Tonight. I don't know how I could slog through my work week without it. It's one of only a small handful of television programs that I dutifully watch. 

[Hanahope]

The only reason I got more than 6 weeks "maternity leave" (5 of which was paid for via employer's disability insurance, so only got 2/3 paycheck, and one week used as vacation pay), for both of my kids was that I was terminated from my job both times (in other words, I was told I need not bother coming back).  Neither job was covered by FMLA.  Fortunately in both cases I found new employment before my unemployment pay was used up (thankfully before the 'great depression' and job loss of 2008).  But nothing beats having to look for a new job and go on interviews while getting very little sleep and taking care of an infant (not to mention finding care for said infant while I went on interviews).

 

I was surprised they didn't show the mother trying to pump her breasts in a women's restroom, sitting on a toilet, since that's where I was forced to do it.  Long bathroom breaks.

 

BTW, all those countries that do have significantly better paid maternity leave policies, also have other pro-worker policies, like mandatory vacation time and paid sick leave, you know, those other policies that are going to "bankrupt" only the small business owners in America, but somehow manage to keep operating in every other country in the world.

[morakot]

I was at a mandatory group meeting at work once when someone asked about permission to take a sabbatical. Our senior VP said: Why don't you just have a baby?" He then went on and on about how women got to take all this time off (3 months paid, two unpaid) just to hang out with a baby. He was proud of the fact that he had three children and had managed to avoid having to spend more than 5 or 10 minutes a day with them. "Of course," he said, "now they're like eight or nine, I have to spend at least half an hour with them."

 

At the table was my boss, who had interrupted her maternity leave to attend this very meeting.

 

Surprisingly, he was soon relocated out of state. Less surprisingly, his wife divorced him and took his children back to India.

[cattykit]

I had to use all my PTO when I developed preeclampsia and had an emergency c-section three months early.  Because I didn't have very much, my supervisor would ask me every week how much PTO I wanted them to pay out so I at least had a little money coming in, but some weeks I didn't take anything.  I went back to work in the surgical intensive care unit five weeks after my c-section, while my baby was still in the NICU across town.  I would work my 12 hour night shift, then drive over to the other hospital to see her.  Then when she was released, I took time off, again, mostly unpaid.  The nurses taking care of my baby at the other hospital told me they got maternity leave.

 

And the topper was that they pushed my anniversary date forward because of the time I'd missed, so they could delay my annual raise.

 

This was only for hourly workers, such as myself (lowly RN).  Salaried employees like management got full paid parental leave and unlimited sick time, so this snotty guy with a lot of degrees and a title rubbed it my face that he got paid paternity leave. 

 

Do employers really think it's cost effective not to support their pregnant employees?  That it's cheaper for them to leave and have to hire replacements?

[Hanahope]

Do employers really think it's cost effective not to support their pregnant employees?  That it's cheaper for them to leave and have to hire replacements?

 

Unfortunately a lot of the time they do.  Certainly in my case, twice.  And I'm a college graduate, who thought I was a 'non-fungible' employee.

[HelenBaby]

I've been retired for quite some time but I worked for a large corporation and they only allowed 5 weeks of paid leave with the option of taking up to an additional 5 months unpaid. Your job would be guaranteed but you would lose those months of seniority (it was a union job.) so most people wouldn't take the extra time because seniority was very important ay my place of employment. One woman's baby died and she had to come back after the five weeks. I felt really bad for her. And forget about the men. They may have gotten a paid day off but if they wanted anymore time, it was vacation.

I did enjoy the mascot story quite a bit. Those Japanese are quite whimsical.

[purist]

Look, I live in Australia and I watch a lot of American TV - but I had NO IDEA about the situation in the USA regarding parental leave. I am so shocked I don't even know what to say. For a nation that talks so much about 'family values', it seems the lawmakers don't have much/any regard for families.

[dusang]

Look, I live in Australia and I watch a lot of American TV - but I had NO IDEA about the situation in the USA regarding parental leave. I am so shocked I don't even know what to say. For a nation that talks so much about 'family values', it seems the lawmakers don't have much/any regard for families.

 

At one period of my life, I spent a lot of time in the Office forums over on (the late lamented) TWoP and heard such incredible horror stories from across the U.S. regarding the total lack of employment standards it stunned me.  Like, literally what Ontarians consider human rights violations are standard practice down there.  I do not understand.

 

FYI -- a workplace in Ontario is legally required to provide safe and secure facilities for a mom to pump her breast milk, which is enforced by the Ontario Human Rights Commission.

[Hanahope]

For a nation that talks so much about 'family values', it seems the lawmakers don't have much/any regard for families.

 

Its "family values" only for those families that can afford for the wife to stay home and take care of the kids, or to hire a full-time nanny.  Those are the only women allowed to get pregnant.

[peeayebee]

I hope that CSPAN guy gets paid decently for all those phone calls he has to deal with.

It occurred to me that some people may be calling in because of seeing this recurring segment on LWT.

[Irlandesa]

I had to use all my PTO when I developed preeclampsia and had an emergency

Do employers really think it's cost effective not to support their pregnant employees?  That it's cheaper for them to leave and have to hire replacements?

Yes because economics is weird and sometimes goes against what people think is logical (or how they'd manage their household finances).  Investing in employee welfare and satisfaction may pay off in the long run but in the immediate run, companies have to figure out how to cover someone's absence and they think it's impossible.

 

I think the Canada system would work best because the year long maternity leave is often long enough to hire a replacement and if the mother doesn't come back, they can transition into the job.  With 6-12 weeks, most companies just pass the extra work around which is not much fun if the maternity leave is in your department and you have to work more.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Irlandesa

[ALenore]

Its "family values" only for those families that can afford for the wife to stay home and take care of the kids, or to hire a full-time nanny.  Those are the only women allowed to get pregnant.

 



Yes, this is exactly what I commented to my husband when we watched this.   Of course, if only rich people are allowed to have children, where are we going to get employees to work in supermarkets, factories, fast food places?  (Since of course we can't allow immigration either.)

[attica]

That's what the robots are for, duh. Skynet is real, sheeple!

[dusang]

Yes because economics is weird and sometimes goes against what people think is logical (or how they'd manage their household finances).  Investing in employee welfare and satisfaction may pay off in the long run but in the immediate run, companies have to figure out how to cover someone's absence and they think it's impossible.

 

The arguments against maternity/family leave (paid or unpaid) have less to do with any interpretation of economic theory and more to do with blatant misogyny.  For all intents and purposes, the old white men who rule the United States and set the cultural norms, economic discourse, and political strategy are still pissed that women went to work in 1960 and are trying to go back to the "good old days" when men were men and women were barefoot and pregnant by making working life as difficult as possible.  So they sow the seeds of "employers can't afford that!" and "SMALL BUSINESSES!!" pearl clutching every time someone suggests anything to protect women's rights in the workplace when, as demonstrated by EVERY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE PLANET (except Papua New Guinea), those arguments are groundless.

Edited May 13, 2015 by dusang

[dcalley]

This episode made me remember a NY Times article I read years ago: In Sweden, Men Can Have It All (2010)

[Hanahope]

I think the Canada system would work best because the year long maternity leave is often long enough to hire a replacement and if the mother doesn't come back, they can transition into the job.

 

Part of the problem that many conservatives have with maternity leave, especially the longer it is, is the "concept" that businesses (or the tax-payer) is "paying someone not to work for a year."  They just don't like the idea of people getting "free" money for what they believe is lying about on the sofa popping bon bons in their mouths.  Until there are enough people in government who no longer have that mind-set, nothing is going to change.

[dusang]

Part of the problem that many conservatives have with maternity leave, especially the longer it is, is the "concept" that businesses (or the tax-payer) is "paying someone not to work for a year."  They just don't like the idea of people getting "free" money for what they believe is lying about on the sofa popping bon bons in their mouths.  Until there are enough people in government who no longer have that mind-set, nothing is going to change.

 

Apart from the fact that that mental image in inherently misogynistic, neither the government, the business, or the taxpayer is paying for family leave -- it's funded through Employment Insurance, which is a public insurance program that every employee is paying into and would continue to pay into regardless of paid family leave.

Edited May 13, 2015 by dusang

[Hanahope]

neither the government, the business, or the taxpayer is paying for family leave -- it's funded through Employment Insurance, which is a public insurance program that every employee is paying into and would continue to pay into regardless of paid family leave.

 

But is the employer still required to keep the 'maternity-leave employee' on the books and thus pay for benefits, such as health insurance, worker's comp, unemployment insurance, etc.?  Seems like most businesses here complain about paying for pretty much anything. 

 

I know paid maternity leave is available in CA and NJ, that is paid by employees and I think the government contributes some too, but not sure how much.  I know its not a year paid, I think maybe 3 months tops.  I don't know how much is taken out of employee paychecks for this.

[Constantinople]

It look me a while to figure out how the two main stories were linked.

 

Then I realized John Oliver was suggesting that Paid Family Leave needs its own mascot.

[Jamoche]

But is the employer still required to keep the 'maternity-leave employee' on the books and thus pay for benefits, such as health insurance, worker's comp, unemployment insurance, etc.?  Seems like most businesses here complain about paying for pretty much anything. 

If it's anything like the way temporary disability works, no. I was on that for the past month for a broken ankle and everything went through the company my employer uses to handle that stuff. It's going to make my tax forms interesting next year.