S11.E23: Time Stops

[Deanie87]

I would really like that answered as well I have no idea.

[kingshearte]

Yeah, it would be nice if Alex first consulted Jo about Meredith and her kids moving in for a while, but I think he has previously established with her an understanding about the history of the house and how it has always been a safe haven for those in need, which is why Arizona is there, and without Meredith he wouldn't even have such a nice house. 

This is a valid point, which I'd totally buy if not for the surrounding crap going on around them.

[maasa]

In the real world Alex could be a non-voting shareholder. He would have a financial stake but no voting power. In the GSM world who knows.

 

I think Meredith will get Derek's voting shares unless there's some board rule against one person having 2 votes.

[funnygirl]

Meredith should have called Amelia so she could say goodbye to Derek. There was enough time for it. Could Amelia have saved Derek? Absolutely not. By time Meredith go to the hospital he was already brain dead. But it's Shonda's idiotic fault for not allowing Amelia to at least be there at the end, instead making Meredith go through all of that alone. 

And it's Shonda's idiotic fault that I have to listen to Amelia angry-monologuing not once but twice in this episode. Of course Amelia has every right to be upset, but I found her going off on and being extra-hard on Meredith unnecessary and rather unappealing. The supply closet moment, fine. But outside in the ambulance bay I wanted Amelia to STFU, or at least for Maggie to step in and tell her to back off a little. As if any of this is easy for Meredith. Feel your feelings but bring it down a notch or ten. 

 

The intern that loosened the collar should be fired. Like, immediately. 

 

Would Catherine being Chief be a conflict of interest since she's part-owner of the hospital? I hope Richard just sticks with it, he's the best, but I got the sense that maybe it will be Catherine. As much as the job will one day be Bailey's, I don't think the time has come for her yet. 

Edited May 9, 2015 by funnygirl

[PrincessTT]

In the real world Alex could be a non-voting shareholder. He would have a financial stake but no voting power. In the GSM world who knows.

 

I think Meredith will get Derek's voting shares unless there's some board rule against one person having 2 votes.

 

Yeah I think in the real world Bailey would have the seat and get to vote but Alex would have the shares (worth millions if he ever wanted to sell them) but in GSM world his financial stake has just disappeared or been forgotten about. 

 

Either Meredith will get Derek's vote or maybe she'll recommend Amelia for his seat out of guilt at not calling her. As much as I want Alex to get the spare seat, I can think of at least 2 other Dr's who would probably (unfortunately) get voted in instead of him. I wonder who took over Derek's (and Meredith's) votes when there was board business during the time that Mer was away. 

 

Oh, and the way Owen resigned as Chief. What was that about?! He didn't bother to do it formally?! 

[dr pepper]

No formally, just formality. "I'm tired of being Chief. I'm going to throw my Office-In-An-Ipad up into the air. Whoever catches it, gets it. At some point we'll have a board meeting and make it offcial." That's about as formal as it gets.

[Nobodysfan]

They really killed off the wrong Shepherd.

 

Awful behaviour from Amelia in scenes between Amelia and Meredith, terrible accusations towards Meredith. Who will say Amelia shut up,just shut up, she is the worst ever to happen on Greys, the actress is so horrible it hurts, the way she speaks through her gritted teeth, makes constant gestures with her lips, tilts her head from one side to another, always speaks in that terrible low manly voice ....

 

Very,very unlucky choice to have her on the show.

 

Also,what a stupid ridiculously irresponsible  move from Hunt to test that animal research on a human just to be maverick again, off with his licence, he got so lucky. How many times he told Cristina she was taking risks, now he is doing the same, what  a hypocrite. What a lame attempt to have him back as in S5. Even in that uniform form last epi,such a lame attempt, that Owen is gone. The best thing is that he stepped down as the chief, it should have happened a long time ago.

 

The only interesting thing is what is going on with Maggie´s parents based on the phone call. Either an illness or a divorce.

 

Jolex is over,the minute Meredith asked to move in, we know MerAlex is going to happen. Not fair to Jolex fans.

 

And that shot  of April  - another lame superhero pose, ouch to Mckidd´s choice of direction, not the best of his ideas.

 

Btw, those three Mer, Amelia and Maggie return back in that ambulance with no patients, like there were no other patients  to take care of in such a terrible disaster, such  a huge loophole in the script.

 

Why would anyone want to marry Mama Avery??? It´s like committing a suicide.

 

And Stephanie is a wannabe Bailey?! This show is  farce now.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[PrincessTT]

No formally, just formality. "I'm tired of being Chief. I'm going to throw my Office-In-An-Ipad up into the air. Whoever catches it, gets it. At some point we'll have a board meeting and make it offcial." That's about as formal as it gets.

 

Such a stark contrast to the race for Chief when Richard was planning to resign in season 3. 

 

They really killed off the wrong Shepherd.

 

Awful behaviour from Amelia in scenes between Amelia and Meredith, terrible accusations towards Meredith. Who will say Amelia shut up,just shut up, she is the worst ever to happen on Greys, the actress is so horrible it hurts, the way she speaks through her gritted teeth, makes constant gestures with her lips, tilts her head from one side to another, always speaks in that terrible low manly voice ....

 

Terrible accusations?! It was a fact, not an accusation, that Meredith didn't call Amelia and let her say goodbye. Even as someone who dislikes Amelia surely you can concede that she had a point there. 

[Nobodysfan]

Such a stark contrast to the race for Chief when Richard was planning to resign in season 3. 

 

 

Terrible accusations?! It was a fact, not an accusation, that Meredith didn't call Amelia and let her say goodbye. Even as someone who dislikes Amelia surely you can concede that she had a point there. 

 

She chose wrong words, words which had only one aim - to hurt Meredith back, low. Meredith handled the crisis in the way she chose to do it, Amelia must respect it. 

 

Sorry, but Amelia with her god complex  - awful behaviour. Unjustifiable.

Also suddenly he is a brother when the whole season long she undermined him whenever she could, always stepping on his toes, just wanting to throw  him off at work, like really,all of a sudden she didn´t get to say goodbye? How did she behave to him?? It´s her remorse as I´d like to

believe she has some that  is saying all those horrible things to Meredith. She should be pissed at herself for how she behaved to him not at Meredith for not calling her.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[PrincessTT]

She chose wrong words, words which had only one aim - to hurt Meredith back, low. Meredith handled the crisis in the way she chose to do it, Amelia must respect it. 

 

Sorry, but Amelia with her god complex  - awful behaviour. Unjustifiable.

 

I don't think she does have to accept it and I think she had every right to question Meredith on that decision. 

 

There have been many incidents this season where I thought that Amelia's behaviour was awful, but this was one time where I was on her side. 

 

From what we saw at the end of the last episode and the start of this one, since Meredith returned Amelia has been back to helping out with the kids and kept her feelings over not getting to say goodbye to Derek to herself... The case that they attended together and the situation on leaving the guy clearly brought up some emotions for both of those women and that led to Amelia voicing her very justifiable unhappiness. 

 

Now if it turns into a long-running drama between the two of them then yes I'd have an issue with that, but an understandably upset Amelia getting it off her chest isn't awful or unjustifiable to me.

[Nobodysfan]

She was not even happy Derek was back from D.C, come on. None of her sisterly behaviour towards Derek which she depicted this season or in general justifies what she told Meredith, and poor Derek was able to be humble in his last encounters with such a terrible sister.

 

And all her well-manufactured grief. Sorry, I will never buy it and those jokes about rolling in grave, disgusting,there are some things which you do not joke about and which are out of any decent human conversation.

 

I am not saying Meredith did the right thing, yes, she could have contacted other family members,she didn´t, then there is nothing but respect it.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[PrincessTT]

She was not even happy Derek was back from D.C, come on. None of her sisterly behaviour towards Derek which she depicted this season or in general justifies what she told Meredith, and poor Derek was able to be humble in his last encounters with such a terrible sister.

 

Whereas I'd say that their interactions this season & in past seasons when she guest-starred on the show and Amelia's story on PP made it plainly obvious that the 2 of them had a very complex relationship but were tightly bonded by the horrific experience that they went through together. 

 

Yes Amelia was incredibly unprofessional in her dealings with Derek throughout this season, but even their scene together outside the house after Derek returned from DC and the playful nature of the phone call on the morning Derek died showed that despite everything they were siblings who were close to each-other.

 

However essentially saying that a few incidents of crappy behaviour at work should be punished by not getting to say goodbye to your closest relative, tells me that your hatred of Amelia means you'll never see that she may sometimes be a little bit in the right. 

[walnutqueen]

I understand Mer's decision not to call Amelia.  Derek has several sisters and a mother - they all would have insisted on flying in to say their goodbyes, wring their hands, and possibly agonize over her decision to pull the plug.  I certainly couldn't handle all that, and I don't think Mer would have been able to hold it together, either.  Also, once she called Amelia, no doubt a bunch of other well meaning people from the hospital would have thought they needed to be there to support her.  It was all just too overwhelming to even think about.

[Kagomei]

Changing the subject a little, I was wondering one thing: when did Mere find out she was pregnant? Do you think that when she had to pull the plug she already knew? Or perhaps after the funeral? Idk, I just really wish they had shown us that.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Kagomei

[PrincessTT]

I understand Mer's decision not to call Amelia.  Derek has several sisters and a mother - they all would have insisted on flying in to say their goodbyes, wring their hands, and possibly agonize over her decision to pull the plug.  I certainly couldn't handle all that, and I don't think Mer would have been able to hold it together, either.  Also, once she called Amelia, no doubt a bunch of other well meaning people from the hospital would have thought they needed to be there to support her.  It was all just too overwhelming to even think about.

 

I understand why Meredith didn't call Amelia, and I'd probably feel the same about wanting to deal with it on my own in that situation. 

But I also understand why Amelia is upset with Meredith about not being called. 

It's a difficult and delicate situation all round and I think both women were somewhat justified in their actions, so I'm not looking to demonise either of them over it and I hope that they can be ok and move forward from it.

 

I think some of Meredith's tears afterwards were due to the realisation of the consequences of her decision not to call hitting her, consequences that she probably (understandably) hadn't given much consideration to until that moment. 

[Erratic]

I wouldn't say the show has jumped the shark but boy, has it gotten lazy.

Jumping the shark would involve effort!

So... I am wondering if the pregnant patient with the first date pregnancy that Callie and Arizona are working on is meant to be some kind of metaphor for them.

If it is, it is the most undeserved metaphor or storyline since the Calzona retconned pregnancy stuff. Thy need to earn a reconciliation, if they decide to go that route. Remember Season 6? That kind of build up.

Jo and Alex- same thing. If we haven't really seen them together, any breakup or fight is unearned. We need to see them together and happy so we can appreciate small fractures becoming breaks.

[Kate213]

"You know, I have four sisters. Very girly. Tons of kids. If I were in a coma, they'd all be here. I'd want them here."  Derek actually said this to Meredith (admittedly in 1x02, so forever ago but still).  Coma vs brain-dead aside, the sentiment was that he'd want his family there.

 

As much as it loathes me to side with Amelia and her screeching about anything, she was correct that Meredith should have called her (and/or the rest of his family) before she turned off life support.  Even giving Meredith the benefit of the doubt in regards to the shock she was undeniably in and her lack of a "normal" childhood family, her many years as a doctor and her family structure as an adult should have caused her to think of all the other people in Derek's life and what Derek himself would want.  Also the hospital, no matter how incompetent, would have asked her repeatedly if she wanted anyone else there with her, if Derek had any other family that should be called, etc to ensure she had the proper support. 

 

Yes, I'm sure Derek's family would have been overwhelming and I doubt Meredith felt like dealing with that.  However, Amelia would have taken one look at the chart and known there was nothing to be done.  She would have been able to say goodbye to her brother of ~35 years, help the rest of her family cope, and Meredith wouldn't have been alone through it all.  

Edited May 10, 2015 by Kate213

[LeGrandElephant]

Agree, Meredith was completely in the wrong. It was hard for her, but Dereck dying isn't JUST about her, it also affects his mother and sisters and they should have been informed and had a chance to come say goodbye, especially Amelia who lives nearby.

[Shellie]

"You know, I have four sisters. Very girly. Tons of kids. If I were in a coma, they'd all be here. I'd want them here."  Derek actually said this to Meredith (admittedly in 1x02, so forever ago but still).  Coma vs brain-dead aside, the sentiment was that he'd want his family there.

 

This is important.  I think Derek has made it clear all along that family is very important to him.  I don't know what season/episode it was in which he said to her something like, 'I have a big family and I want that for you too.'  

 

It would have been much better storytelling to have Meredith remember those very words from him that you quote from 1x02 and make the call to Amelia.  But GA isn't really about great storytelling at the moment.

 

I agree with those who've said they understand why Meredith didn't call Amelia, but that Amelia is right to be upset.  I think it was in character for Meredith, but I think she was wrong.  

[kingshearte]

Meredith handled the crisis in the way she chose to do it, Amelia must respect it. 

I have to disagree on that. As much as I'm starting to come on board with finding her obnoxious much of the time, I will tell you right now that if my brother's wife made that kind of call without so much as letting any of us know, I would be furious, and I'm sure I would say some horrible, awful things that no widow deserves. Like many others, I get why Meredith would have done why she did, but that doesn't make it OK, and as much as I would feel for her, I would not think it unjustified if all of Derek's other sisters and his mother showed up and yelled at her exactly that way. Spouses should come first in most cases, and legally, they have the right to make the call, but siblings and other close family of the deceased absolutely do not have to just accept and respect that call.

 

Honestly, I think it was really just bad storytelling, and I'm a little surprised that they acknowledged it at all. But they wanted Meredith alone, and they wanted her to do a very Meredith thing and disappear for a while, which would have been more or less fine if Derek had no other family (Alex & Jo, in the same situation, for example, would be much more forgivable). But bringing his family into the mix wouldn't have worked for the dramatic whatever Shonda was aiming for, so they were left out. Which is unequivocably bullshit.

[Palomar]

 

As much as it loathes me to side with Amelia and her screeching about anything, she was correct that Meredith should have called her (and/or the rest of his family) before she turned off life support.

 

Yes, it is the wife's decision but she is not his only family and they had a right to know before pulling the plug (what would an hour or two longer hooked up to the machine matter) or before Meredith wandered into the hospital and calmly told everyone else (NON family members) that Derek is dead.  To be honest if I was Derek's mother I would never forgive her for that or for not giving me the (hopefully) comforting news that Derek was going to be a father again.  Worst Daughter-in-law ever! Sorry, but Meredith is extremely selfish (like her mother).  I don't like Amelia either, but Meredith's treatment of her was horrible as well. 

 

That said, I mostly blame Shonda's GA vision for Meredith's behaviour.  I really think they shoved a years worth of Meredith grieving into one episode because frankly it would have been boring as hell to watch it spread out for a season.

[Biggie B]

Changing the subject a little, I was wondering one thing: when did Mere find out she was pregnant? Do you think that when she had to pull the plug she already knew? Or perhaps after the funeral? Idk, I just really wish they had shown us that.

 

 

I know it's almost impossible to figure out timelines on this show, but I would suspect that Meredith did not yet know she was pregnant when she was at Derek's bedside. They had sex the morning he left to head back to DC (when he said he wanted another child). Not that she couldn't have become pregnant at any time prior to that particular morning, of course. And who knows how many days passed between Derek's arrival home and the day of the car accident. Still, my guess would be that as she made the decision to unplug Derek, Meredith did not yet know she was pregnant.

[proserpina65]

The intern that loosened the collar should be fired. Like, immediately.

 

In the real world, yes.  At Grey/Sloan/DeathWhatever, the hospital which took Izzie back after the LVAD debacle?  Hell, the kid hasn't even killed anyone yet.

[SGfan]

Honestly, I think it was really just bad storytelling, and I'm a little surprised that they acknowledged it at all. But they wanted Meredith alone, and they wanted her to do a very Meredith thing and disappear for a while, which would have been more or less fine if Derek had no other family (Alex & Jo, in the same situation, for example, would be much more forgivable). But bringing his family into the mix wouldn't have worked for the dramatic whatever Shonda was aiming for, so they were left out. Which is unequivocably bullshit.

 

This is exactly what I think.  That whole episode was poorly written and executed.  For me, Meredith was acting totally out of character during the whole Derek dying part anyway (all matter of fact with the paperwork and then being like a mentor to some random doctor about mistakes made, etc, etc).  The whole thing was just craptastic and now Shonda has to write her way out of her own decision to not have Meredith call anyone in his family.  I think she just wanted to hurry up and kill Derek and to hell with whatever ramifications or accountability came with that.  It's why I'm not watching anymore and why I don't even care enough to have an opinion on who is right or wrong in the pulling the plug conversation.  I'm not an Amelia fan at all, so there's that, but I can't even put this on Meredith because for me, all of this is Shonda's fault because it's just shoddy writing.

[mojito]

 

So did Meredith and Amelia really not talk for a whole year while Amelia was living in her house? Who was paying the bills?

Electronic transfer.I just wrote a check to my credit card company and realized that the check number before it was to the same credit card company, one month ago. All my bills are paid electronically. 

 

Like another person upstream, I didn't think that Pretty Boy was a doctor at all, so it was nice to know that he was an intern. Maybe Pretty Boy is a super intern, and actually has more experience than qualifications and will get "skipped" a few grades and end up romancing one of the many, many single female doctors on the show. Or Owen. 

 

I also thought that Meredith, Maggie, and whoever the third doctor was, were going to go back to the scene of the accident.

 

Maggie's going to find out that she's not really adopted, she's her parents' real child and have her confidence shaken because she's not the daughter of two surgeons but the daughter of two civil servants....

[St. Claire]

In my long years of medical training (and by "training," I mean "watching TV dramas and having a concept of how the spinal cord works"), I have learned never to mess with a stabilizing collar. That intern is a moron.

 

As soon as Dr. Pretty Intern said he was a surgeon, I wondered what hospital. Now that Mercy West is no more, the only hospital that exists other than GSM in the GA universe is the one where Derek died. So, I wasn't too horribly surprised that he was a tardy intern with a cover story.

[kingshearte]

Ooh, but how awesome/horrible would it have been if we'd never actually seen the neurosurgeon who effectively killed Derek, and this guy turned out to be him?

[choclatechip45]

Well Seattle Presbyterian did exist the one Hahn worked at.
 

Edited May 18, 2015 by choclatechip45

[St. Claire]

Oh, I forgot about Seattle Pres. Thanks for reminding me.

[Eolivet]

I've "done this" as a viewer three times in the last three years (Downton Abbey, Glee and now Grey's) and I have to say, to me, Grey's is doing by far the best job of keeping the memory of a character alive, and letting the audience grieve, too. I'm so happy (well "happy") that they continue to show flashbacks, that they continue to talk about and think about Derek. I never realized what a difference it makes in the "healing" process.

 

Everyone else has said what I felt about the Meredith/Amelia scene -- I actually found it exceedingly well done on both sides (and as for someone who's never been Amelia's biggest fan, that's saying something). But I could understand why it came out when it did, even "a year later" -- given it was a man in a car accident and Meredith went "Nope, got nothing for ya!" That would bring up some unresolved issues a year, two years, five years later.

 

It's interesting that the first big "disaster" the show has after Derek's death is basically Derek's accident on steroids. The contrast between "induced hypothermia" and "gotta wait 20 minutes for the neurosurgeon to finish his dinner" is striking. Patients, click your heels together three times and say "There's no place like Grey-Sloan!"

 

But I thought the pregnant patient was supposed to be referencing Derek and Meredith, not Callie and Arizona -- car crash, plus they also did things "out of order" (one-night stand, fell in love, found out he was married, broke up, got back together [rinse and repeat], adopted a baby and then got married for real). Which is why I found it almost a punch in the gut when April brought the car to the hospital. The extraordinary measures that are being taken to save this guy, when nobody did the same for Derek...sigh.

 

Agree with everyone who said what's-his-face from "Selfie" and "Reign" is supposed to be the "new" McDreamy, at least looks-wise. Wardrobe even had him in the suit coat/sexy rolled up sleeves look, with his hair done just so. Oh, Grey's...the more you change, the more you stay the same.

[Chas411]

The ending with Wilson... WTF? I loved the faces on Meredith, Maggie and Smugsalot Shepard.

 

Meredith's attitude to Jo is gross and seriously needs to change next season if I'm going to ever get onboard her friendship with Alex. Jo has done nothing to warrant her horrible attitude and Alex should really stick up for her more.

[Mrs. DuRona]

Late to the game, but I'm a new Grey's Binge-watcher.  Just made it to this episode.  Just wanted to chime in that when April showed up with the car, I blurted out "Atta girl!" because it reminded me of the trauma exercise when she took matters into her own hands, threw the mannequins into the ambulance and drove them to the ER.  The first flash of April as a trauma surgeon.  I like April, this was a nice moment for her.