Spoilers and Spoiler Speculation: Benchmarking

[Chas411]

It's because the writers prefer Maggie and are fully invested in making Jaggie happen despite the mundane reaction. Now, I don't really see why this had to happen with April going as she's had a really strong season but I guess creatively they felt she was the easy option to let go? 

I don't really understand it given Owen is a waste of space and Jesse Williams attempt at Jaggie has made it clear she was doing the heavy lifting for Japril but for some reason they feel she's the expendable one. 

Maybe it was budgetary.. 

[chitowngirl]

4 hours ago, Chas411 said:

i can't believe the teased us with the brilliance of April/Greg Kinnears character and then stuck her back with Mathew. What a crappy ending

April is dating Tom  Koracick played by Greg Germann, not Greg Kinnear.

[beautifulGA]

it looks more of lack of effort from ABC's part. A vague synopsis could always be put up without giving out spoilers. And most invested fans get their chunk of spoilers from social media, so it's not like anything is under the wraps. You already have Camilla championing about finale being her fav jolex episode or something, there's location footage, fan sightings, BTS pics of casts and so on....

*****'the doctors of Greys Sloan make some life altering decisions about their future amidst challenges that forces them to contemplate their choices'****

like how hard it is?

I'm not a fan of jolex but I love love love Alex karev, just wished his 'big' episodes were treated equally important. 

[GSMHvisitor]

2 hours ago, beautifulGA said:

I'm not a fan of jolex but I love love love Alex karev, just wished his 'big' episodes were treated equally important. 

Agreed. Sadly they never have. Not even the reunion with his mother is worth a centric, let alone a real storyline.

[leighroda]

While I do doubt at this point that April is going to die, I’m not completely dismissing it... just because she posted pictures done up, I’m not convinced. Who knows what scene that was for, and I highly doubt she would be allowed to post a picture showing her looking dead... plus you can die without trauma. I don’t really know either way, Grey’s has me trained that someone has to die because there hasn’t been a major cast member death in a while, and apparently leaving Grey-Sloan’s alive is not so common, so I guess I’ll say I’ll be pleasantly surprised if everyone survives.

[Chas411]

6 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

April is dating Tom  Koracick played by Greg Germann, not Greg Kinnear.

I knew it was wrong as I typed it - thanks :)

[Deanie87]

10 hours ago, beautifulGA said:

I'm not a fan of jolex but I love love love Alex karev, just wished his 'big' episodes were treated equally important. 

It will be important because Jesse is directing it not because its an Alex episode.

I think that they can make things with Matthew vague enough to show that they are working towards some kind of friendship/future without it having to be April Gets Her Happy Ending with Matthew.  She can be happy and moving on from Jackson without having to be in love or marrying Matthew.  I would also love to see Greg Germann back so I'm glad that he won't be involved in April's ending.

My view on the departures is that they are going into the (hopefully) last couple of seasons with the show centered back around Meredith and of all the characters, April and Arizona have the least connection with her.  I have enjoyed Amelia more this season than I normally do, but I would gladly trade Maggie and Amelia for Arizona and April.  I wish that the writers had integrated the cast more years ago, but it is what it is.  I just hope that they continue to give the returning cast equal screentime and storylines.

[BaseOps]

They actually aired a few Alex-centric promos last night during the DWST premiere.

Edited May 1, 2018 by BaseOps

[beautifulGA]

47 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

It will be important because Jesse is directing it not because its an Alex episode.

I think that they can make things with Matthew vague enough to show that they are working towards some kind of friendship/future without it having to be April Gets Her Happy Ending with Matthew.  She can be happy and moving on from Jackson without having to be in love or marrying Matthew.  I would also love to see Greg Germann back so I'm glad that he won't be involved in April's ending.

My view on the departures is that they are going into the (hopefully) last couple of seasons with the show centered back around Meredith and of all the characters, April and Arizona have the least connection with her.  I have enjoyed Amelia more this season than I normally do, but I would gladly trade Maggie and Amelia for Arizona and April.  I wish that the writers had integrated the cast more years ago, but it is what it is.  I just hope that they continue to give the returning cast equal screentime and storylines.

i kind of strongly dislike this narrative. even if everything has to be centred around meredith (which imo isn't required tbh), arizona and meredith are the only plane crash survivors left on show, they both are single parents, they both have a ground breaking record in having to deal with traumas, so if these same writers didn't invested in this bonding to be developed, then who's to be blamed here?

april too, along with alex, cristina, jackson and meredith were from the same batch - meredith was april's bridesmaid in her wedding. there is a bond there, if the writers didn't invested in it, it's on them.

while they are at it, they keep forcing maggie as some very important character down our throats. At first I thought it is to create more important characters on greys after some major departures but if they keep these non layered characters in exchange of some very fleshed out, seasoned characters - excuse me if I don't buy this creative decision bs.

while we are at it, what's owen & jackson's link to meredith besides dating the sisters? which im sure no one is invested in and probably won't last next season.

[BaseOps]

If it was Vernoff's plan to split Owen & Amelia up, they'd almost certainly be split up by now (and yea, they're divorced, but they keep circling back to each other). This season has pretty much been about wrapping up old storylines that were handed over to Krista (Riggs, Owen's sister, Jo's husband, etc.) and fixing issues + finally pushing things forward (Jolex FINALLY getting engaged, course-correction with Amelia's character, them deciding to actually pursue Maggie and Jackson). I think we're seeing setup for a lot of what Krista considers to be endgame, so I think it's safe to say that the writers are going to stick it out with Owen/Amelia, Jackson/Maggie, and Alex/Jo. 

[moonorchid]

28 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

If it was Vernoff's plan to split Owen & Amelia up, they'd almost certainly be split up by now (and yea, they're divorced, but they keep circling back to each other). This season has pretty much been about wrapping up old storylines that were handed over to Krista (Riggs, Owen's sister, Jo's husband, etc.) and fixing issues + finally pushing things forward (Jolex FINALLY getting engaged, course-correction with Amelia's character, them deciding to actually pursue Maggie and Jackson). I think we're seeing setup for a lot of what Krista considers to be endgame, so I think it's safe to say that the writers are going to stick it out with Owen/Amelia, Jackson/Maggie, and Alex/Jo. 

I mean...pretty much this! I def believe it was a creative decision, it’s just a creative decision some people don’t like. I’ve been feeling for a while that this season was setting up for what Kristas vision of what grey’s is. And next season will be that in full force.

[beautifulGA]

but isn't teddy coming back (next season probably) to sweep owen off his feet or something?

[moonorchid]

11 minutes ago, beautifulGA said:

but isn't teddy coming back (next season probably) to sweep owen off his feet or something?

My theory is to announce she’s pregnant right after Amelia announces she’s pregnant and next season can be a Owen/Amelia/Teddy modern family. 

[JNM5505]

It wouldn't be drama without a love triangle! So, I can definitely see Teddy returning next season.

I am disappointed the writers are going to end April's storyline by having her end up with Matthew. As someone else said (not sure if it was PTV or another site) it would mean April is settling for the second best and Matthew is being a doormat.

I really hope Hermann offers Arizona a job in New York, so she and Sofia can be closer to Callie. It sounds like they're getting along better now. I can't remember what the girl who plays Sofia said in an interview, it wasn't too long ago; but she seemed to have been happy with the resolution of the Arizona storyline, which makes me think they moved to New York.

I think the next three to go will be Jackson, Owen, and Amelia. Mostly based on the timeline of their appearence.

So Shonda clearly is going out of order here. Derek before Callie. Arizona and April before Owen. Get with the program!

[beautifulGA]

1 hour ago, moonorchid said:

My theory is to announce she’s pregnant right after Amelia announces she’s pregnant and next season can be a Owen/Amelia/Teddy modern family. 

okay gag! of course, the whole issue of owen abusing the women in his life to give him their uterus will be resolved by giving him 93 babies.

[Layne]

2 hours ago, moonorchid said:

I mean...pretty much this! I def believe it was a creative decision, it’s just a creative decision some people don’t like. I’ve been feeling for a while that this season was setting up for what Kristas vision of what grey’s is. And next season will be that in full force.

It's gonna be so boring. 

[funnygirl]

1 hour ago, kinnej5 said:

So Shonda clearly is going out of order here. Derek before Callie. Arizona and April before Owen. Get with the program!

Both Patrick and Sara chose to leave at their respective times, Shonda didn't want to get rid of them. And it was Krista who decided to let April and Arizona go. Shonda left her in charge when she got her Netflix deal. 

[moonorchid]

20 minutes ago, Layne said:

It's gonna be so boring. 

It does make me wonder...and I’m very biased so I’m not going to speak for others but am genuinely asking...is there anything that anyone is super excited about anymore on this show? 

[GSMHvisitor]

21 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

It does make me wonder...and I’m very biased so I’m not going to speak for others but am genuinely asking...is there anything that anyone is super excited about anymore on this show? 

Well I would be SUPER excited for all the possible Alex stories they could do and also how his journey with Jo continues. Sadly they are not characters or a couple the writers are or were ever really invested in. Even this season, which is a huge improvement comared to the last 3 seasons on the Alex & Jo front, they mostly only get the bare minimum. Their issues at the beginning of the season were mostly ignored and they got a rushed reconciliation. Jo's DV story got wrapped up in 2 episodes and Alex was barely a part of it. Then they didn't have any significant scenes together for a while until the engagement episode. Afterwards the same thing happened until their story got picked up again last week. As for their individual stories: except for some minor quibbles I do like Jo's professional arc with Meredith this season. Sadly I can't say the same about Alex. His arc with Kimmie was pointless from start to finish and he didn't even get to be a doctor. Also I have a hard time accepting that this story went on for multiple episodes, while we only get to see Alex with his mother for one episode. And this is a story we've basically been waiting for for a decade.

Anyways, I think there are enough potential stories for both Alex and Jo and that is what I would be super excited about, but sadly they're never given the time of the day on this show.

[BaseOps]

1 hour ago, moonorchid said:

It does make me wonder...and I’m very biased so I’m not going to speak for others but am genuinely asking...is there anything that anyone is super excited about anymore on this show? 

I think that season 14 has been, without contest, the strongest season of the show since the first half of its run. So I’m excited about the future of the series in general. I’ll miss April & Arizona… but not any more than I missed Izzie, or George, or Burke, or Cristina, so I don’t think the show is suddenly going to crumble. A year ago I was annoyed as hell pretty much every time Amelia came onscreen, now I actually find her endearing, and I love that Owen has finally been able to find some happiness as well. Krista has lifted the veil of constant misery and doom & gloom from GSM and I find the show genuinely fun to watch again. A year ago I would have been happy to see Owen leave, now I’m more excited to see a character that I once loved (especially in season 5 / 6) continue to reclaim some happiness.

I love Alex and I’m so happy to have seen Jo get some development this year. I’m excited about their prospects as a couple and for whatever Vernoff gives them to do next year. I think Bailey had her best writing in AGES this year, so I’m excited to see more for her character. I loved seeing Meredith leave behind romantic woes and focus on being an amazing surgeon (and mentor to Jo), and I also thought that she had more chemistry and better writing in a single episode with Nick than she’d been given for 2 seasons with Riggs (and I’m one of the fans who actually didn’t mind Riggs, but the entire storyline was totally botched).

I love that Vernoff writes the characters as being friends + colleagues with rich histories rather than constant adversaries whose motives change with each story. A lot of seasons 11 to 13 felt like we were constantly watching doctors battle each other (especially season 13), whereas now we’re still seeing competition and drama but between characters who actually have conversations with each other, build each other up, etc. I love that she plays on so many things that Stacey neglected (like Amelia and Richard’s sobriety actually being discussed, Maggie & Richard’s relationship, constant references to Cristina, the return of Matthew, Teddy, and Olivia, etc.)

Season 14 actually had arcs that developed over time and paid off, rather than introducing stories that were constantly dropped & forgotten. Vernoff is also much better at introducing new recurring characters (Koracick and Casey, the trans intern, both have a lot of potential) and the patients have been more engaging this year than they had been for ages – Kimmie, Eli the rabbi, the lesbian couple who recurred, etc.

As for Teddy - there's no confirmation that she's coming back next year, that's been all speculation, but of course anything is possible. 

[Snow Fairy]

Oh I hope Teddy won't be coming back. After that speech, I don't want her to come to Owen. And I don't want her to be pregnant. 

[Deanie87]

2 hours ago, moonorchid said:

It does make me wonder...and I’m very biased so I’m not going to speak for others but am genuinely asking...is there anything that anyone is super excited about anymore on this show? 

I was happy enough with this season that I'm looking forward to what next season brings.  My biggest gripe over the last few seasons was the imbalance in screentime and storylines and the complete inconsistency in the writing.  I think that this season was much better in that regard.  I want to see what's next for Alex and Jo, I want to see more of the Jackson/Meredith/Richard/Catherine combination, I want to see Meredith connect with a love interest.  I also hope that they bring Koracik back and I am even vaguely interested in Owen/Amelia/Leo and the teen mother.  So there is definitely stuff that I'm looking forward to and I will be interested in seeing what stories Krista wants to tell for the characters now that she has gotten them where she wants them.  

I could do without the Very Special Issue episodes that get wrapped up in 42 minutes, and I'm not invested in any of the couples outside of Alex/Jo, but I hope that with less characters to write for, they can start to concentrate on wrapping up everyone's stories in a meaningful way and give each actor some decent material.  

[BaseOps]

Sounds like April & Arizona both make it out alive. Or at least they 'die nice'. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by BaseOps

[JNM5505]

4 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Both Patrick and Sara chose to leave at their respective times, Shonda didn't want to get rid of them. And it was Krista who decided to let April and Arizona go. Shonda left her in charge when she got her Netflix deal. 

What Netflix deal? Is she not working on Grey's anymore?

[BaseOps]

2 hours ago, kinnej5 said:

What Netflix deal? Is she not working on Grey's anymore?

She signed a massive development deal with Netflix last year. Stacey stepped away to do Station 19 & now Krista Vernoff runs the day-to-day and is the showrunner. Shonda is still the 'big boss' but is significantly less involved with both breaking stories and the day-to-day at Grey's. She basically oversees and steps in from time to time.

[ForeverAlone]

I will definitely not be happy if April and Matthew end up as some sort of couple. I never liked them as a couple (I was a hardcore Japril shipper until the Grey's writers royally screwed up their relationship with the writing), and was relieved that they didn't get married. I certainly don't want to see a reconciliation. *sighs* 

[cycworker]

I basically agree with @BaseOps. 

In many ways I do think the show is structurally better than it was in the last few seasons. In fact, maybe better than it's been since Vernoff left. The problem is that's not necessarily saying much given I'm not sure I care about some of the core stories & characters. Meredith is actually the least interesting character on the canvas for me. I hate the idea of losing Jessica Capshaw & Sarah Drew so that Ellen Pompeo's desire to prove she can be the central character on a show & have everyone revolve around her ( the notion of Mer as 'The Sun). And I base that on comments EP herself made... she compared herself to Viola Davis & Kerry Washington (How To Get Away With Murder, Scandal, respectively) and stated that she is just as capable of being the centre of a show & she resents that people think she can't do it. So my instinct is that's what the dismissal of JCap & Sarah Drew is about... April's presence will make folks want JApril. Arizona, despite the plane crash & being a hospital owner, just isn't well integrated within Meredith's circle. 

 

I've come to the conclusion that had Vernoff remained with the show, we would likely never have gotten the Jackson/April pairing. She clearly never viewed them that way. Heck, a part of me wonders if, were it up to her, Sarah Drew wouldn't have been brought back... that the decision to have April be rehired & bring Drew back in Season 6 was 100% a Shonda Rhimes decision. There have been multiple times where I've had the sense that the show has been hinting at the idea of April regretting walking away from Matthew. So if they were to retcon it & try to tell us that she's come to realize that Matthew was 'The One' all along, but she just got caught up in the, I don't know... glamour of Jackson... I could see it. Matthew is the 'nice' guy next door type. The nerdy guy from high school that got overlooked. Jackson's also a decent guy, but he's kinda the captain of the football team. The BMOC. He's just so different than the type of guy she would've grown up being taught to see herself with. They're from two different worlds. Anyway, that's what I can see Vernoff thinking.  

 

I can't help feeling that Vernoff is also a Callie/Arizona fan. Now, I know I'm a Callie/Arizona fan, so I'm biased. But she keeps throwing things into the dialogue that strongly suggest that Arizona isn't so much deeply invested in Carina or in love with Carina, so much as she just doesn't do well alone, she's lonely, and Carina's available... along the lines of "If you can't have the one you love, love the one you can have." So for me, it would be stupid to let Carina leave with Arizona. If Vernoff wanted them together, just keep Capshaw on the canvas & move their story forward.  I'm not suggesting that Callie & Arizona should magically be clearly getting back together in/by the finale. I'm suggesting the show would be wise to give us the suggestion that it's on the horizon. Given how highly Sara Ramirez & Jessica Capshaw still speak of Shonda Rhimes, I still think that once a firm end date is set for Grey's, they'll be willing to come & do an episode or two that allows us to see how their characters ended up. Basically, they could have Calzona show up together & give us flashbacks to show how they reconciled.  

[cycworker]

On 4/20/2018 at 10:43 AM, BaseOps said:

I highly doubt a Calzona reunion is in the cards. There's just no way to make it work without Sara coming back / it'd be way too fast to have the story make sense. They've been separated for years, both are in relationships, and they have way too much baggage to work through with Callie being offscreen, etc. I do think we'll likely see Arizona move to (or closer to) New York, but I imagine it will be for a job opportunity and it will just so happen to be luckily closer to Callie for Sofia's sake. 

 

I think it could go either way.  I get what people mean about Mer/Der, and the whole 'Grey's not being about romance,' but by the same token... Shonda has an EGO. She loves the plaudits she got for Calzona. She kept their wedding topper. I think she's genuinely invested in making them endgame. Plus they will want to try to do damage control with fans after firing JCap. So while I'm not sure that we'll get a Doug/Carol type thing, I'm not ruling it out, either. My instinct is we get Calzona together in the series finale rather than now, but I'm keeping an open mind as to what he possibilities are. 

If my posts on this topic seem inconsistent, it's because they are. ;) I honestly can't decide what I think is going to happen. 

[JNM5505]

Here's a crazy, far-out there idea. crazy being the key word, so please bear with me. I wouldn't put it past KV anyways.

What if we retcon the whole Japril storyline for the past four seasons, we go back to the day April was going to marry Matthew. This would explain the farm and Sarah Drew being all dolled up, and Justin Breuning appears in the finale. This would explain away April walking away from Harriet–she (and Samuel) doesn't exist. So there is nothing tying April to Jackson or Seattle now, she can go off and live the life she was supposed to four years ago.

Plus, if we work around the episode April was supposed to marry Matthew; if you guys remember, it was the same episode Jo and Alex realized they wanted to spend the rest of their lives together and someday became a possibility. This would save us 3.5 years of nonsensical storylines with Jo and Alex; and, best for last, they're finally married and hopefully none of that long, tiring drama ever happened.

And back to Jackson, this means he never got with April and probably stayed with Stephanie until she left after the fire in the season 13 finale. So that clearly paves way for Jaggie with no baggage of April (or Samuel) or Harriet.

Thoughts?

My thoughts: re-reading my post, it sounds like a perfectly wrapped gift with an obnoxious bow on top. It's too perfect, but isn't that what KV is striving for; perfect in her little mind.

Edited May 2, 2018 by kinnej5

[moonorchid]

1 hour ago, kinnej5 said:

Here's a crazy, far-out there idea. crazy being the key word, so please bear with me. I wouldn't put it past KV anyways.

What if we retcon the whole Japril storyline for the past four seasons, we go back to the day April was going to marry Matthew. This would explain the farm and Sarah Drew being all dolled up, and Justin Breuning appears in the finale. This would explain away April walking away from Harriet–she (and Samuel) doesn't exist. So there is nothing tying April to Jackson or Seattle now, she can go off and live the life she was supposed to four years ago.

Plus, if we work around the episode April was supposed to marry Matthew; if you guys remember, it was the same episode Jo and Alex realized they wanted to spend the rest of their lives together and someday became a possibility. This would save us 3.5 years of nonsensical storylines with Jo and Alex; and, best for last, they're finally married and hopefully none of that long, tiring drama ever happened.

And back to Jackson, this means he never got with April and probably stayed with Stephanie until she left after the fire in the season 13 finale. So that clearly paves way for Jaggie with no baggage of April (or Samuel) or Harriet.

Thoughts?

My thoughts: re-reading my post, it sounds like a perfectly wrapped gift with an obnoxious bow on top. It's too perfect, but isn't that what KV is striving for; perfect in her little mind.

I couldn’t imagine a more insulting thing to do to a fanbase But you never know with Krista 

[BaseOps]

4 hours ago, kinnej5 said:

Here's a crazy, far-out there idea. crazy being the key word, so please bear with me. I wouldn't put it past KV anyways.

What if we retcon the whole Japril storyline for the past four seasons, we go back to the day April was going to marry Matthew. This would explain the farm and Sarah Drew being all dolled up, and Justin Breuning appears in the finale. This would explain away April walking away from Harriet–she (and Samuel) doesn't exist. So there is nothing tying April to Jackson or Seattle now, she can go off and live the life she was supposed to four years ago.

Plus, if we work around the episode April was supposed to marry Matthew; if you guys remember, it was the same episode Jo and Alex realized they wanted to spend the rest of their lives together and someday became a possibility. This would save us 3.5 years of nonsensical storylines with Jo and Alex; and, best for last, they're finally married and hopefully none of that long, tiring drama ever happened.

And back to Jackson, this means he never got with April and probably stayed with Stephanie until she left after the fire in the season 13 finale. So that clearly paves way for Jaggie with no baggage of April (or Samuel) or Harriet.

Thoughts?

My thoughts: re-reading my post, it sounds like a perfectly wrapped gift with an obnoxious bow on top. It's too perfect, but isn't that what KV is striving for; perfect in her little mind.

 

.... what? I can't tell if you're joking. 

3 hours ago, moonorchid said:

I couldn’t imagine a more insulting thing to do to a fanbase But you never know with Krista 

Does all the Krista hate literally just come from the fact that she's writing off April and Arizona and pursuing the Jaggie storyline? I'm struggling to understand what she's done this year that could be classified as insulting to fans. She's literally course-corrected the series after the worst season of its entire run. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by BaseOps

[moonorchid]

33 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

.... what? I can't tell if you're joking. 

Does all the Krista hate literally just come from the fact that she's writing off April and Arizona and pursuing the Jaggie storyline? I'm struggling to understand what she's done this year that could be classified as insulting to fans. She's literally course-corrected the series after the worst season of its entire run. 

I’m sorry I do mean japril fans. I know a lot of fans like this season and that’s great. If you liked japril a lot, what’s happened, is insulting. And it’s not all Krista, but it’s ending with her. 

[funnygirl]

10 hours ago, cycworker said:

And I base that on comments EP herself made... she compared herself to Viola Davis & Kerry Washington (How To Get Away With Murder, Scandal, respectively) and stated that she is just as capable of being the centre of a show & she resents that people think she can't do it. So my instinct is that's what the dismissal of JCap & Sarah Drew is about... 

 

So for me, it would be stupid to let Carina leave with Arizona. If Vernoff wanted them together, just keep Capshaw on the canvas & move their story forward. 

 

To the first point: Ellen said that after Derek was killed off and going into season 12. It doesn't have anything to do with Arizona and April. 

 

The second point: Exactly. Why have Arizona end up with the Deluca sister, which has thus far been an underdeveloped relationship, if she's leaving? Krista could've kept Arizona and fleshed them out in the future, but dismissing Arizona on the basis of "creative decisions" means that this thrown-together pairing is of little interest to Krista and that she doesn't see much value in them for storytelling. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by funnygirl

[BaseOps]

@moonorchid I guess I just struggle to see it as 'insulting' especially on Krista's part, and that's not me telling you how to feel - you're totally entitled to being upset. But Jackson and April were broken up long before Krista came around. They were literally apart for the entirety of season 12 & 13. Krista came onto the show with them as a non-couple. The Jackson/Maggie storyline was basically handed to her, too. I feel like April and Jackson have gotten much stronger writing under Vernoff than they had been getting; a few seasons ago they were filing restraining orders, fighting non-stop, having sex and not even discussing it, etc. It was an illogical mess. Vernoff came in and had them actually discuss their issues, separate amicably, and showed Jackson continue to be a good friend to her through her struggles. So I get that fans of the couple would be sad to see April leave, but I don't get how it can be framed as Krista shitting on the fans when April and Jackson haven't really been a couple for ages. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by BaseOps

[beautifulGA]

12 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

To the first point: Ellen said that after Derek was killed off and going into season 12. It doesn't have anything to do with Arizona and April. 

 

The second point: Exactly. Why have Arizona end up with the Deluca sister, which has thus far been an underdeveloped relationship, if she's leaving? Krista could've kept Arizona and fleshed them out in the future, but dismissing Arizona on the basis of "creative decisions" means that this thrown-together pairing is of little interest to Krista and that she doesn't see much value in them for storytelling. 

this thrown together pairing was by Krista only, otherwise last season they had Eliza as Arizona's +1. Maybe krista didn't liked Eliza (can't blame her there cuz same) but Carina is her own creation. I believe Arizona being let go is again something Krista has 'visioned'. Like she didn't envisioned japril as a pairing, she didn't envisioned Arizona without Callie either. 

And all of this is really sad, because as an writer your job is to take stories forward, not steamroll it with what you like or dislike. Especially with Arizona - because if you can write meredith without Derek, why writing arizona without callie is such a hardship.

anyways it's their 'creativity' or lack of there off. i will always stand by my point that april and arizona had way too much of story left to be just let go. 

[moonorchid]

42 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

@moonorchid I guess I just struggle to see it as 'insulting' especially on Krista's part, and that's not me telling you how to feel - you're totally entitled to being upset. But Jackson and April were broken up long before Krista came around. They were literally apart for the entirety of season 12 & 13. Krista came onto the show with them as a non-couple. The Jackson/Maggie storyline was basically handed to her, too. I feel like April and Jackson have gotten much stronger writing under Vernoff than they had been getting; a few seasons ago they were filing restraining orders, fighting non-stop, having sex and not even discussing it, etc. It was an illogical mess. Vernoff came in and had them actually discuss their issues, separate amicably, and showed Jackson continue to be a good friend to her through her struggles. So I get that fans of the couple would be sad to see April leave, but I don't get how it can be framed as Krista shitting on the fans when April and Jackson haven't really been a couple for ages. 

I totallt get this viewpoint cause this is also Krista view point too. I will say writing wise, I do think this season is stronger under krista. My issue, and this is really a me thing cause what I watch this show for is different then what you watch for. Japril meant a lot, and they’ve been shat on a lot like the situations you mentioned. Honestly for the most part I was encouraged by the second episode where april maturely put her self out there and said this wasn’t working for her. What’s super ironic, I actually *LIKE* this April Kepner under vernoff. The only thing I disagree about is Jackson being this great friend, cause hoenstly had anyone else been exhibiting the behaviors april had there would have been a damn intervention. 

 

Concerning japril, it just feels like things were dropped for jaggie and now that April is leaving there’s a lot left on the table. Which would be one thing if it didn’t feel like Krista wasn’t trying to dismiss them. Another couple as highlighted as them has never been treated like this just cause the showrunner didn’t care about them. 

 

But beyond all this...what I was referring to was the scenario the other poster presented which was what if the show just transports back to April and Matthews wedding and Jackson just never stands up and mapril get married and then we fast forward back to now and things have been sort of reset. IF as wild a scenario as that happens, that would be insulting to a fanbase that really loved and cared about them.

[JNM5505]

It was sarcasm, @BaseOps -_-

But at the same time, it does seem plausible since KV is trying to undo everything Japril ever was.

[GalvDuck]

10 minutes ago, kinnej5 said:

It was sarcasm, @BaseOps -_-

But at the same time, it does seem plausible since KV is trying to undo everything Japril ever was.

In that case, she could have Meredith wake up, hear the water running, go into the bathroom, and pull open the curtain to find Derek taking a shower.  

*showing my age there*

[anna0852]

 I'd actually be really annoyed if that was the case. I've grown to like independent Meredith.

[BaseOps]

@moonorchid Fair. I agree in the sense that I think it’s an odd decision to get rid of April, whether or not she’s in a relationship with Jackson. While I’ve never been a ‘shipper’, I think they had a lot of interesting dynamics to explore, but the sub-par writing over the last few years didn’t do them any favours. I would have been interested to see how Krista explored them as a couple, because I think she’s generally a much better & more complex writer than we’ve had leading the show in a while, but I also totally understand why she felt like it was probably best to just move on. As much as she’s been great about wrapping up storylines & dealing with old issues, I also think her biggest hurdle was finally moving the show ahead. When she came in, basically every storyline had been stagnant for a year or more. Meredith & Riggs were going nowhere, Amelia & Owen were going nowhere, Alex & Jo hadn’t even spoken for episodes on ends, April & Jackson were in an endless circle, etc. Season 13 did nothing but stall every storyline. So I can see why maybe pairing Jackson and Maggie felt, to her, like the possibility for something new. I also think that Jackson & April would have been a SUPER easy way to appease fans, so that’s the only reason it confuses me a bit.

That said, I actually really loved April & Koracick’s dynamic and would have loved to see them explored as a couple next year. It’s tough. I don’t envy someone like Krista who has to make such big decisions for a show with such a massive, dedicated fan base, and generally I applaud her for how well she’s done this year especially given the mess that she was handed.

1 hour ago, kinnej5 said:

But at the same time, it does seem plausible since KV is trying to undo everything Japril ever was.

 

 

How so? I mean, what has she done that was any worse than what Stacey had them doing - like I stated, we literally saw April file a restraining order, watched them bicker endlessly, never discuss their issues, sleep together and then just not speak for episodes on end, etc. I get the general frustration at how they've turned out as a couple, but I'm just failing to see how Krista could be the only responsible when they were undone long before she came back.  

Edited May 2, 2018 by BaseOps

[Layne]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 11:58 AM, moonorchid said:

It does make me wonder...and I’m very biased so I’m not going to speak for others but am genuinely asking...is there anything that anyone is super excited about anymore on this show? 

Are there any non Jolex fans super excited about anything anymore?

[Layne]

10 hours ago, moonorchid said:

I’m sorry I do mean japril fans. I know a lot of fans like this season and that’s great. If you liked japril a lot, what’s happened, is insulting. And it’s not all Krista, but it’s ending with her. 

If she's willing to do this with Japril, she'll be willing to do it with Jolex too.

[beautifulGA]

Wow does she not have a PR team? 

Ellen Pompeo

[moonorchid]

10 minutes ago, beautifulGA said:

Wow does she not have a PR team? 

Ellen Pompeo

She is beyond exhausting. The smugness and arrogance is a turn off.

[BaseOps]

9 hours ago, beautifulGA said:

Wow does she not have a PR team? 

Ellen Pompeo

I honestly love that she never holds back, even if I don't always agree with everything she says. But the fact that she was getting death threats over a creative decision (which she wasn't part of) on a TV show IS something that should be called out. The stuff I see hurled at her, Krista, and Kelly is disgusting. It's a larger issue with social media - kids think that the things they say have no consequences and there's also a really gross air of entitlement; "I love this show and tweet about it 24/7 SO THE WRITERS SHOULD LISTEN TO ME!!!!" The entire situation was made 100x worse in how people responded to it and ran with the accusations against both Ellen and Krista. Kelly gets a lot of really gross, racist tweets sent her way too.  

[funnygirl]

Ellen has a right to defend herself. Fans got completely out of hand blaming and attacking her for the choices that the higher-ups made, and turned it into an ugly public situation all because when Ellen did speak, she didn't respond in the way that fans wanted her to; which, from the looks of it, was for her to disagree and shame her bosses for this decision and throw a parade for both Sarah and Jessica. She is now being accused of making this all about her when she even acknowledges that it's not. 

Maybe silence would've been the best way to handle this, who's to say? But for better or worse, Ellen has never had a filter. And the only thing she really got wrong in all of this is that it's not simply kids and "13 year olds" who are attacking her. Far worse, actually. It's also adults. 

Fans have no idea how that business works and what happens behind the scenes. But because they insert their own theories and biases as fact, it's the negative that catches on and spreads. Such is the ugliness of social media.  

[beautifulGA]

44 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

I honestly love that she never holds back, even if I don't always agree with everything she says. But the fact that she was getting death threats over a creative decision (which she wasn't part of) on a TV show IS something that should be called out. The stuff I see hurled at her, Krista, and Kelly is disgusting. It's a larger issue with social media - kids think that the things they say have no consequences and there's also a really gross air of entitlement; "I love this show and tweet about it 24/7 SO THE WRITERS SHOULD LISTEN TO ME!!!!" The entire situation was made 100x worse in how people responded to it and ran with the accusations against both Ellen and Krista. Kelly gets a lot of really gross, racist tweets sent her way too.  

no I agree on that. Death threats are never funny or can be called as 'passionate' behaviour. but i think her PR team can help her in articulating it better. For one, you can NEVER compare what an lgbtq teen/youth goes through with what an mature lady is reading on her Twitter.

there's more problematic statements there but i don't wanna go there. it is not like sarah and jessica aren't getting bad behaviour themselves. I just feel like Ellen/GA's PR team can do better than this. It is not about holding back, it is about the fact that pot calling kettle black.

Edited May 3, 2018 by beautifulGA

[MrWhyt]

45 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

I honestly love that she never holds back, even if I don't always agree with everything she says. But the fact that she was getting death threats over a creative decision (which she wasn't part of) on a TV show IS something that should be called out. The stuff I see hurled at her, Krista, and Kelly is disgusting. It's a larger issue with social media - kids think that the things they say have no consequences and there's also a really gross air of entitlement; "I love this show and tweet about it 24/7 SO THE WRITERS SHOULD LISTEN TO ME!!!!" The entire situation was made 100x worse in how people responded to it and ran with the accusations against both Ellen and Krista. Kelly gets a lot of really gross, racist tweets sent her way too.  

Exactly, why should she attempt to spare the feelings of a bunch of whiny, entitled, children? fuck em.

[BaseOps]

Quote

no I agree on that. Death threats are never funny or can be called as 'passionate' behaviour. but i think her PR team can help her in articulating it better. For one, you can NEVER compare what an lgbtq teen/youth goes through with what an mature lady is reading on her Twitter.

 

That's not what she's doing, though. And I say that as part of the LGBTQ community who was bullied for years when I was younger. She was saying that she finds it incredibly hypocritical for fans of these two characters in particular, who have been fantastic representations of marginalized groups, to be throwing out death threats and name-calling on twitter. She wasn't comparing her being bullied on twitter to LGBTQ kids being bullied in schools, simply saying that there's a huge disconnect between what these fans claim to champion and how they act online. That's how I read it, anyway. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by BaseOps

[BaseOps]

“I am so excited for Jo and Alex to finally seal the deal and get married,” Luddington tells EW. “But in true Jolex form, the wedding will have lots of twists and turns to it.”