S01.E21: Grodd Lives

[tennisgurl]

I really liked Iris and her reaction to the news. She was angry, but seemed almost more sad. Her sadness that the men in her life were all lying to her was a lot more palatable than just flying into a rage. I also feel like this is not over. Of course she wasn't furious the whole time. Her father was in mortal danger, her fiance was kidnapped by the murderer, and shit has just gotten real all over the place. Its not a very appropriate time to blow up at everyone. She also made a lot of great points when she did blow up. Its like she found a way onto the message boards and just started reading. I figure she will continue to be upset, even if this wont mean her completely freezing out everyone involved in the lie. 

 

Every time Grodd said his name, I just heard " I AM GROOOT"! I could get behind that cross over. 

[Sakura12]

Every time Grodd said his name, I just heard " I AM GROOOT"! I could get behind that cross over. 

 

I just got to watch this ep and that what I was thinking of the whole time. A telepathic gorilla may be able to talk to Groot. Lol.

 

Now with the episode. I'm glad Iris just waltzed into Star Labs, she should make an entrance about her knowing the secret. I'm glad she was more upset then angry at them. They are supposed to be the people closest to her and they lied to her. Although I did want her to say "Protect me from what exactly?" when they kept using that excuse. I would really want to know their answer to that question. Because I have no idea how not telling her protects her. 

 

I also think she should've told her dad, that she's happy and grateful he's okay, but he's not forgiven just because he got injured. He kept something huge from her and made everyone else do it too. Although if they go with the comics he's keeping an even bigger secret from her. 

 

The Barry/Iris romance is still so boring. I just don't see any romantic chemistry. It could also be that I don't think Barry deserves Iris yet. He's still too selfish and immature for my tastes. I do hope we get more Iris and Caitlin bonding though. She's the only one that actually seemed sincere with being upset for lying to her and she doesn't even know Iris that well. And she's the only that stuck up for Iris and made sure she got credit for helping. 

 

Poor Eddie, you're basically forgotten already. Wouldn't telling Eddie his future, change his future? Now he will probably do something about it to make himself remembered. Unless of course Wells lied and Eddie is the start of the crazy Thawne legacy.  

[saber5055]

I lost track of the number of times I shouted, "STFU, Iris" during this episode. Iris is so "It's all about me." Maybe SHE needs to learn how to be a good friend. Or even better, maybe it's time she moved on and got over herself. Other people have lives that they are living to the best of their abilities, and are struggling with live-and-dead situations daily. Yet Iris with her little reporter's job thinks the world should revolve around her and everyone owes her everything. Time to grow up, kid, and face real life. 

 

Even though this show is nothing like real life. So there's that! LOL! But I find her completely intolerable regardless.

[Smug47]

I dunno, they've been hiding everything from Iris, so a life or death situation for Barry or Joe is nothing to Iris if she has no idea it's going on. And yeah, Barry's secret is his to tell at his discretion, but once it involved her father and her fiance, it just made sense to give her a heads up. They all wanted to protect her but she is a grown woman and should have all the knowledge at her disposal to decide what to do. She investigated on her own and discovered the threads that tied the metahumans to STAR and the accelerator explosion and when she told Barry, he just sort of brushed her off. She knows that Eddie has been hiding things from her and her father seems to block every turn she has at growing and evolving outside of his acceptable boundaries. I think that Iris should get a few more episodes to settle into this new world that everyone else is already used to. She'll see a bigger picture and be more helpful and (hopefully) have more agency as a character.

[FiveByFive]

And yeah, Barry's secret is his to tell at his discretion, but once it involved her father and her fiance, it just made sense to give her a heads up. They all wanted to protect her but she is a grown woman and should have all the knowledge at her disposal to decide what to do.

These shows are always using the, "My secret puts those close to me in danger!" excuse but they all seem to neglect that the secret has never put anyone in danger, being in close proximity to the hero is usually the thing that causes the person to be in danger. Plus, if a bad guy figures out who the superhero is when they're not superheroing it also puts the loved ones of the person in danger. So why not tell them so that they are ready?

 

Knowing is the difference between, "This person is looking for Barry ... they may know he is the Flash ... let me get out of here," and "Oh, Barry isn't here. Sure you can wait for him stranger who wants to kill/kidnap/hurt me because I don't know my friend is a superhero but you do!"

 

I lost track of the number of times I shouted, "STFU, Iris" during this episode. Or even better, maybe it's time she moved on and got over herself.

Her reaction wasn't any different than most normal people would have in this situation. If anything it was severely watered down. The girl has barely had any opportunity to express her perspective on anything ever. So saying, "STFU, Iris" is a little silly, IMHO.

 

Furthermore, her mind was not on herself the last part of the episode. She had time to be angry and then her concern shifted to the same people that had lied to her all this time. She wanted Eddie to be okay. She wanted her dad to be safe. She wanted Barry to not get his butt kicked by Grodd so he could survive the battle and save them both since he is their only hope.  She didn't rant and rave the entire time about herself at that point. She called Caitlin out on lying to her and then felt bad about what happened to Ronnie. She didn't scream, "Me! Me! Me!" anymore than appropriate.

 

I'm glad Iris just waltzed into Star Labs, she should make an entrance about her knowing the secret. I'm glad she was more upset then angry at them. They are supposed to be the people closest to her and they lied to her.

I was so happy they didn't "Thea Queen" her initial acceptance this episode. She had every right to be annoyed if not angry. I was pleased that they went with "disappointment" as her reaction. It smacks of her feeling like while they didn't "have" to tell her they really "should" have told her. It's like her best friend she tells everything to met a really hot guy and went out with him but never mentioned it. You know you can't really be pissed because it's not your business but you can be disappointed because you would have told her!

 

While she did seem to get over it "for now" it was clear that was because her priority was not herself the last portion of the episode. Hopefully she won't let it drop that easily.  (And to her credit - neither did Thea although her after reaction was, "Okay, two can play at this game!") 

 

The Barry/Iris romance is still so boring. I just don't see any romantic chemistry. It could also be that I don't think Barry deserves Iris yet. He's still too selfish and immature for my tastes.

I felt it when they actually had scenes together as themselves at the very beginning of the series but even then it was more of a "teenage crush" kind of thing. Iris is so "perfect and beautiful" and Barry "loves" her but he just can't say it so she moves on and he still cares for her but nothing is happening because he was too immature to tell her eons ago.

 

Barry's not tall enough to ride that ride yet.

 

The way she has stood/stands by Eddie is very telling. Even her father told Barry this is what she would do. She is committed to Eddie completely. She is his rock.  Barry should be dealing with the fact that she could have been his rock but now that's not gonna' happen so easily because her commitment is to Eddie first as the guy who actually told her how he felt and acted on it.  She definitely does love Barry but that's just not the way the cards are laid out right now. She's not the kind of girl that's gonna ditch a guy, especially when he's missing or worse.

Edited May 7, 2015 by FiveByFive

[Trini]

Re-watched, and I liked how Iris kept getting angrier as each new secret was revealed. I hope they continue with the repercussions, because she doesn't even knew about the group in Starling City who know, too!

 

------

The main(headline?) picture of Grodd and Flash used in PTV recap made me realize that particular shot used the CGI version* of Flash. You can tell by the differences in the the cowl; the costume that Grant wears now had been re-designed slightly since earlier in the season.

 

I hope they can have the same SFX budget for next season.

 

*Also used for supersonic punching Girder, and the Flash vs. Reverse Flash flashback fight.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think that Iris was initially hurt that Barry had chosen not to share his secret with her (which is totally understandable) but as she learned that he had told his secret to her father and her boyfriend but still not her, she got angrier about the way they colluded to keep her in the dark. I think that made her feel like Barry trusted Joe and Eddie with his secret but not her. As for the whole "I was doing this to protect you" argument, ITA with everything FiveByFive said about that situation. Most of these people would be safer if they knew these secrets and could act accordingly, but by being kept ignorant they're going into what they think is one situation when they're really going into a different situation blindly.

[driedfruit]

The way she has stood/stands by Eddie is very telling. Even her father told Barry this is what she would do. She is committed to Eddie completely. She is his rock.  Barry should be dealing with the fact that she could have been his rock but now that's not gonna' happen so easily because her commitment is to Eddie first as the guy who actually told her how he felt and acted on it.  She definitely does love Barry but that's just not the way the cards are laid out right now. She's not the kind of girl that's gonna ditch a guy, especially when he's missing or worse.

 

Yes, I liked how she told Barry she wasn't going to go there with him while Eddie is in captivity. However, I'm disappointed that it looks like Eddie's part in deceiving Iris is simply going to be brushed aside due to his kidnapping. What was the point of letting him in on the secret and all the drama for the past couple of episodes?

[quarks]

Also, Iris put aside her anger to help Team Flash find Grodd and help Barry fight off superpowered gorilla effects.

 

I still don't feel that strongly about any of the romances on this show except, now that they've introduced it, the twisted relationship between Grodd and bananas, but I like Iris/Eddie, and he's been at least somewhat more straightforward with her than Joe and Barry have, so I was glad to see that she didn't just dump the guy now that everything is out in the open.

 

Actually, if the CW was a slightly different sort of network, I could see some sort of Iris/Eddie/Barry romance developing - Iris seems to have feelings for both, and in my opinion, Eddie and Barry have something going on :)  Alas this is not that network.

[Sakura12]

I think Eddie's got the In Danger excuse going on right now for Iris to be angry at him. Plus she knows that it was her father that was keeping him from telling her and if she forgave her father, she can forgive Eddie. I forgive him because he was the only questioning the "It's protecting her" reason that Joe kept giving him. He wanted to tell her, but it is also not his secret to tell. It's Barry and he choose to keep it from his best friend. 

 

I'm just upset that Eddie will get the shaft and probably turn bad just so selfish, immature Barry can get the girl because comics. I think Eddie's a better match for Iris or anyone is a better match for Iris at this point. 

[FurryFury]

I'm just upset that Eddie will get the shaft and probably turn bad just so selfish, immature Barry can get the girl because comics. I think Eddie's a better match for Iris or anyone is a better match for Iris at this point.

 

Yes! I've finally watch the episode, and god, it was all West Allen, all the time. I almost gagged. This is s1-Lauriver level bad.

 

I did like Iris herself in the first half of the episode. I think Candice was awesome and I can't even begin to tell how upset I am that she's wasted on this travesty of a romance. And then they've made her forgive both Barry and Joe in 10 minutes. Seriously?! I expected her to be angry for at least until s2 premiere. 

 

The worst thing for me, however, was Eddie beginning to be turned by Wells telling him about Iris/Barry. Ugh. Exactly as I predicted. God, why, why cannot there be any genuinely exciting plot twist, why must everything on this show be so uninspired and by the book? Please, just once - let Eddie remain a good guy.

[JTMacc99]

I did like Iris herself in the first half of the episode. I think Candice was awesome and I can't even begin to tell how upset I am that she's wasted on this travesty of a romance. And then they've made her forgive both Barry and Joe in 10 minutes. Seriously?! I expected her to be angry for at least until s2 premiere.

I have no interest in her being angry.  As I mentioned earlier, the sooner everybody tells her everything that has gone on up until this episode, the better. It would be nice for her to quickly get up to speed on exactly how awful things have been for everybody so that she can start fully participating.  Joe probably needs to lead with the threats from the man in yellow.  Barry can start with what happened the guy at her work. And then they can go into all of the other fun stuff.  They might as well tell her about the Arrow. No reason to have any main character in either show not know EVERYTHING about the people from the other one.

[FurryFury]

It rings false to me that after such a huge betrayal you could forget about something like that and forgive those at fault. I know I wouldn't.

[BPOX]

Sure, but watching folks yell is tedious TV. What they really need is a consequence. Like she just leaves and stops talking to them. She could disappear a couple episodes, then reset the timeline again. Barry knows there are real consequencess but gets a 2nd chance.

Edited May 7, 2015 by BPOX

[Grace19]

beautiful episode, i.m so glad they gave us 2 good iris episodes in a row. seriously Candice Patton did a good job in this episode. I really felt her disappointment in her dad and Barry. she handled the situation so maturely, really she comes across more matured than Barry and the star labs team.i have always loved Iris and Barry, but there is something about their scenes in tis episode especially the final scene between them that made their relationship seem more grown up. maybe it was the two of them being more truthful with each other or the confidence Barry expressed there. their Chemistry is off the chart.

I dont just get what is selfish or annoying about Iris this episode. I dont think anybody would just shrug off that their lifetime best friend and parent kept a secret like this from them, especially when it puts them in danger. it gets worse, they also lied about her co-worker's death and covered up the truth, and finally the said best friend also flirted with her in disguise knowing fully well that she is with someone and even stalled her career by telling her the things she believed to be true were false, things like this can make a person doubt his/herself. i don't know what would satisfy some people, do they expect her to fall on the floor and kiss Barry's feet because he's the flash? Iris deserves to be very angry with them. still, I love that it was not dragged out so much, but i hope it makes her less trusting with people, it can really help her career. I love Caitlyn and Iris' budding friendship, writers please dont ruin it with drama.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Grace19

[smices]

Yeah, I really want a Caitlyn/Iris friendship.  I know they cater to a male audience, but this show is overflowing with testosterone.

[Grace19]

Oh I forgot my favorite part of the episode, Joe being damseled again. he is really the dude in distress of this show. its ironic that he is the one always gong on about protecting Iris, but he is the one who kept being put in danger. I laughed out loud when he offered Groodd Banana.

I noticed that Iris was reading through Henry Allen's case on the computer when Joe came to visited her. Is Iris going to be able to help free him or were the writers just showing us random stuff? I hope its the former.

[FurryFury]

The banana was the best part of the episode for me, hands down.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Praise be to the Speed Force that Iris knows, that Joe and Barry realize (at least to an extent) that they should have told her, and that we can hopefully a) leave this all behind us and b) have Iris be better integrated into the main and sub-plots going forward.

 

Welcome to the Flash Mob, Iris West!

 

As for Eddie, I sincerely hope that he does not join the Reverse-Flash Mob just because he thinks Iris ditches him. Especially because a) the newspaper could be a trick b) even if it's not a trick, it could be that Iris marries Barry after marrying Eddie c) even if Eddie gets kicked to the curb ASAP by Iris, that is no reason to join a homicidal maniac's agenda.

 

I kinda wish Eddie would just be bold enough to sterilize himself, and boom! no more RF. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[TanyaKay]

Actually, if the CW was a slightly different sort of network, I could see some sort of Iris/Eddie/Barry romance developing - Iris seems to have feelings for both, and in my opinion, Eddie and Barry have something going on :) Alas this is not that network.

I am #TeamAllenThawne all the way. I think Eddie and Barry have more chemistry than they have with any of the girls. Barry's awkward faces when he saw the ring in Eddie's hands could very easily be mistaken for something else.

I could not figure out why Iris was angry with Cisco & Caitlin for coming up with instant tech. I mean they have been at it for far longer and are super smart people, surely they knew what they were doing. Her attitude was reminiscent of Laurel Lance and her dismissal of Felicity & Diggle as help in season 2 of Arrow. Iris was still far more polite than Laurel Lance ever was to anyone including her dad and boyfriends.

[AudienceofOne]

I am #TeamAllenThawne all the way. I think Eddie and Barry have more chemistry than they have with any of the girls. Barry's awkward faces when he saw the ring in Eddie's hands could very easily be mistaken for something else.

 

 

While I don't agree, I did get a massive chuckle from Wells' "Barry marries Iris and not you," comment. Ah, Wells, I think that sentence was supposed to be the other way around.

[Oscirus]

I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt that the newspaper building has a security guard working the front desk  Joe, like Barry works for the police and so would be potentaily allowed admission without issue.  The guard could also know that both of them are acquainted with Iris and thus know they are okay to visit her?

 

Mason was killed in that very same office and nobody even noticed. I really doubt that place has a security guard there.

 

The Star labs thing has always been dubious since three people were apparently able to keep everything running, but at least Wells is rich and can pay the bills.  Maybe they can convince Ray Palmer to buy the place.

 

Considering that  Cisco can invent anything you can think of at the drop of a hat. I figure that the residuals from his inventions alone should be enough to keep the place up and running. Push comes to shove, he can always just invent another one of those gold guns and make money that way.

 

 

As for Joe, if you had an 800 pound telepathic gorilla in your face, you'd cry too.

 

Yes, I liked how she told Barry she wasn't going to go there with him while Eddie is in captivity. However, I'm disappointed that it looks like Eddie's part in deceiving Iris is simply going to be brushed aside due to his kidnapping. What was the point of letting him in on the secret and all the drama for the past couple of episodes?

 

The point was for that secret to cause drama in their relationship. If we're being fair, he merely kept the secret, he wasn't the one actively trying to keep her in the dark.

 

And then they've made her forgive both Barry and Joe in 10 minutes. Seriously?! I expected her to be angry for at least until s2 premiere.

 

Unfortunately, the secret storyline has gotten her a lot of hate . They can't afford for her to get more hate by making her so vindictive( even if Joe and Barry do deserve It).

[FurryFury]

Yeah,I guess I can understand it from this point of view. I'm just really on Iris' side in this, not Barry's. Actually, with every new episode I like Barry less and less, and this is mostly the Iris/Barry storyline's fault. The show simply expects us to root for him because he's the hero (similar to Arrow), but I need more, I need for the hero to continually show/prove to me why he deserves admiration. One of the reasons I've dropped Arrow was because I've come to really dislike Oliver, and it seems like The Flash is going the same way.

[Sakura12]

I think one of the main reasons I can't get into WestAllen is, I really dislike Barry. I find him selfish and immature and his using his "nice guy" persona really makes me hate him. He's always trying to get Iris to admit she has feelings for him no matter what else is going on. Trying to compare Iris keeping feelings she's not really sure of to herself to his secrets and lies about being the Flash really got on my nerves. That is not even close to being similar, Barry. 

[marketdoctor]

 

While I don't agree, I did get a massive chuckle from Wells' "Barry marries Iris and not you," comment. Ah, Wells, I think that sentence was supposed to be the other way around.

 

<ShawnSpencer> I've heard it both ways. </ShawnSpencer>

 

 

The banana was the best part of the episode for me, hands down.

 

I think this is consistent with the comics; it was a passing reference on Justice Leauge Unlimited.

 

More seriously, I think Barry and Joe were thinking that:

1.  Barry is terrible at keeping secrets.

2.  If bad guys knew Iris was close to The Flash (especially if she knew who he really was), they'd be more likely to kidnap Iris instead of (for example) Cisco.

3. The only way to protect Iris is to keep Barry from revealing that he/The Flash is close to Iris.

4. Q.E.D. Iris cannot know Barry's secret(s).

 

In Joe's case, that's because he'll do anything to protect his daughter, even if it hurts Iris and Barry; Barry went along with it both because he understands Joe's point and because he can be a nitwit.

 

I'm not saying any of the above is "right"; but not having your daughter be a target of supervillians might keep you from thinking objectively.  (That line was crossed once the first bad guy knew, though; they're not as motivated about keeping the secret identity secret of someone who wants to put them in jail.)

[phoenics]

Yeah,I guess I can understand it from this point of view. I'm just really on Iris' side in this, not Barry's. Actually, with every new episode I like Barry less and less, and this is mostly the Iris/Barry storyline's fault. The show simply expects us to root for him because he's the hero (similar to Arrow), but I need more, I need for the hero to continually show/prove to me why he deserves admiration. One of the reasons I've dropped Arrow was because I've come to really dislike Oliver, and it seems like The Flash is going the same way.

 

I think comparing Barry to Oliver is a slight stretch... Oliver was a cheating b@stard and even when Sarah came back he still hooked up with her. His relationship with poor Laurel was toxic from the start. Barry has his flaws definitely, but I just can't say he's anything like Oliver. I DID hate how they made Barry act like a NiceGuyTM after he told Iris (and then he expected her to just drop everything and fall into his arms every time he did something nice for her). Sadly that happened during a particularly fan-servicey episode where they ship-baited. I think I can agree with you and Sakura that the shipping can destroy a show - especially when a crack ship is involved that the show starts to inexplicably try to service. Barry and Caitlin came off badly in that episode, imo.

 

I think one of the main reasons I can't get into WestAllen is, I really dislike Barry. I find him selfish and immature and his using his "nice guy" persona really makes me hate him. He's always trying to get Iris to admit she has feelings for him no matter what else is going on. Trying to compare Iris keeping feelings she's not really sure of to herself to his secrets and lies about being the Flash really got on my nerves. That is not even close to being similar, Barry.

I don't like the NiceGuyTM persona either - and as I mentioned above, I feel like that came about in an attempt to fanservice and ship-bait the SB fans. And that actually didn't do Caitlin or Barry any favors, to be honest. It was gross. I hope the writers are done with that.

But since then, Barry seems to have evolved. He's completely staying out of the Eddie/Iris situation and doesn't seem to be actively sabotaging. My main gripe with him was his secret keeping from Iris and so I'm relieved that's out. I DO think that he's being single-minded about catching Wells - I almost thought he was going to let "Wells" kill him (when he was stopping the bullets). He's being self-centered there, but I can understand why. He's desperate to catch Wells and clear his dad's name.

[SevenStars]

Unfortunately, the secret storyline has gotten her a lot of hate . They can't afford for her to get more hate by making her so vindictive( even if Joe and Barry do deserve It).

 

I totally understand this concern, because even thought Iris didn't react as angrily in this episode as I would have liked because I think the situation called for it, people are stilling hating on her hard for this episode, especially on Facebook. It was so ridiculous to me to see the amount of hate she was getting when she acted so mature and way better than either Barry or Joe deserved. 

 

But if the writers continue to make her act overly-rational because they fear fans reaction to her getting mad, some fans will start hating her because they will claim she is being written too perfectly and unrealistic. 

 

So while I understand the writers fear, I honestly want them to say fuck it and just write her a fully development character, and if that means having her be truly angry and stay angry when the situation called for it, so be it. I don't want them to be overly-concern with fans reaction because Iris being a love interest already set her up to be hated by those who hate predestine love interest.  So just write a great character who happens to be Barry's love interest and let haters be haters.

[BPOX]

Yeah,I guess I can understand it from this point of view. I'm just really on Iris' side in this, not Barry's. Actually, with every new episode I like Barry less and less, and this is mostly the Iris/Barry storyline's fault. The show simply expects us to root for him because he's the hero (similar to Arrow), but I need more, I need for the hero to continually show/prove to me why he deserves admiration. One of the reasons I've dropped Arrow was because I've come to really dislike Oliver, and it seems like The Flash is going the same way.

Seriously, all the show had to do was to show me they were worried about the secret endangering Barry and his team and their mission. Loose lips sink ships and all that. The "to protect Iris" motivation when nobody else was kept from the secret was so dumb. I mean they kind of did kind of show consequences with Cisco giving the secret, but then they immediately neutered the threat. If that had happened early and it had been a real issue then they decided the secret stops here it's too dangerous to the team to bring others in...It would have been so much better.

 

I think one of the main reasons I can't get into WestAllen is, I really dislike Barry. I find him selfish and immature and his using his "nice guy" persona really makes me hate him. He's always trying to get Iris to admit she has feelings for him no matter what else is going on.

Well, it's got to be hard to live that time reversal and have all these hints, but yes it does bring out a single minded streak that doesn't do the character any favors.

 

Seriously show, had you bothered to have Barry say, "I saw Cisco tortured for my secret I could never do that to you", it would have helped. Not much since he's constantly trying to get next to her, but a little. But if maybe he also tried less to get her to throw over her boyfriend. Arrgh. The behavior absolutely does not line up with trying to protect Iris from being too close to the secret.

 

[SevenStars]

 Arrgh. The behavior absolutely does not line up with trying to protect Iris from being too close to the secret.

 

It's not only Barry's behavior that didn't line up to the reasoning they give for keeping Iris in the dark, the whole arc and almost every episode since they decided to keep it a secret from her have made their reasoning questionable. It had become a running joke because almost every episode made it a little more ridiculous that they think keeping Iris in the dark was protecting her. 

 

The only thing that made their reasoning seems a little valid is the fact that Joe know the secret and he had become a constant damsel in distress for Barry to save. I mean Iris is saving herself most time when she is in trouble, while Joe is sitting pretty waiting for the Flash to save him, lol. But even with that, there reasoning doesn't make sense when you look at the whole picture.

[Grace19]

I might be in the minority here, but I don't want Amanda to replace Wells at star labs. I feel her character will not fit in much with the team, she lacks the chemistry with the team Wells had. My wish is that somehow we can get real Wells back even if we keep Well/Eobard. Tom is too precious an actor to lose.

[miracole]

 

It was so ridiculous to me to see the amount of hate she was getting when she acted so mature and way better than either Barry or Joe deserved.

I realized that people who have a problem with Iris after this episode are just going to have a problem with Iris no matter what.

Iris was very well written and very well acted this episode.  

 

She was clear and direct and hit all the right notes. she was disappointed at what liars the people closest to her were but still put aside those feelings to help save Barry and her Dad. Iris is always well acted and the only problem with Iris' storyline is the way the other characters have treated her and how she isn't given a true voice.  Iris is very capable and time and again has proven she can take care of herself. She punched out a meta human, shot another, and got vital inside info about the trickster to the police.  She did all this without knowing who the flash was.  

 

People are saying she's nosy  because her bestfriend, Dad and boyfriend were lying about a huge secret that affects her, what the what?!  It was her picture that had a knife sticking through it, darn skippy she deserves to know who the Flash is.  And Caitlin did owe Iris an explanation  about her fiancee.  She lied to Iris' face about him when she didn't have to while standing in Iris' childhood home. It was disrespectful.

 

Also she's not being wishy, washy she  is showing her loyalty to Eddie as she should. Eddie is her boyfriend. She got a little jealous one time but Barry is totally trying to get Iris to dump Eddie nearly every episode but apparently that's not a big deal. People forget that she was all for Barry and Felicity.  Her feelings didn't get conflicted until Barry told her he loves her the day before she's going to move in with her boyfriend.  I like Iris and the actor and am looking forward to her SL now that people have mostly stopped lying to her(Mason anyone).

Edited May 8, 2015 by miracole

[Xander]

I might be in the minority here, but I don't want Amanda to replace Wells at star labs. I feel her character will not fit in much with the team, she lacks the chemistry with the team Wells had. My wish is that somehow we can get real Wells back even if we keep Well/Eobard. Tom is too precious an actor to lose.

How do you know she lacks the chemistry when we haven't yet seen her work with the team? 

 

 

I realized that people who have a problem with Iris after this episode are just going to have a problem with Iris no matter what.

Some of her complaints and comments were ridiculous. For example, blaming Joe for Eddie being kidnapped was ridiculous. Barry tells her Wells killed his mom and without a pause, her next question is if he's going to kill Eddie. A friend would have asked how he was dealing with it.  Comments like, "You guys save so many people but you can't save my dad and Eddie?" when it wasn't like they were sitting around eating bonbons was unnecessary. But we can give her a pass because everyone is allowed to get mad and lash out from time to time. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by Xander

[FurryFury]

Barry tells her Wells killed his mom and without a pause, her next question is if he's going to kill Eddie. A friend would have asked how he was dealing with it.

 

In a normal situation, yes, but would you really think about an event in the past when your loved one is in immediate danger? There will be time to discuss how Barry feels about it, but this time is not now. 

[SevenStars]

In a normal situation, yes, but would you really think about an event in the past when your loved one is in immediate danger? There will be time to discuss how Barry feels about it, but this time is not now. 

 

It's also the consequence of Barry not telling her the truth when she gave him a chance.  They would have all the time in the world to discuss his feelings if he had bother to tell her the truth. Now that Eddie is in Wells' hands, is not the time to worry about Barry's feelings but Eddie's life. 

 

Also, I'm sure if Iris hadn't showed as much concern for Eddie as she did, people would have been calling self-center and selfish for only caring about her hurt feelings and worrying about Barry who lied to over and over again, instead of the life of the man who loves and was going to propose to her. 

 

But I might be bias because I wanted a much bigger and longer consequence from Iris finding out the truth the way she did. I didn't get that, so to me Iris should have gone farther. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by SevenStars

[Grace19]

some of the complaints I see about Iris are just ridiculous, anybody who hates her after last episode is just determined to hate her. the writers should just focus on telling the story they want to tell and not think about people who want Iris to be written out, killed, or the character transfered to another actress. some people even blame her for some of Barry's questionable actions, like seriously? its like they are stuck on repeat; she's annoying. she's a bitch, she is selfish, she is annoying. its funny sometimes. the one that really takes the cake is a board I came across where someone wrote that if they really need Bart Allen, (Iris and Barry's grandson) to show up, that she can die at child birth so that Barry and a new love interest can take over and raise the baby and Bart Allen still gets to show up, like women are so easily discard-able.

About Amanda, thats just a feeling I get. I might be wrong. maybe I am just biased and love Tom too much as Wells.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Grace19

[FurryFury]

someone wrote that if they really need Bart Allen, (Iris and Barry's grandson) to show up, that she can die at child birth so that Barry and a new love interest can take over and raise the baby

 

I had always thought comments of this type are incredibly idiotic, and then I watched the finale of How I Met Your Mother.

[miracole]

 

Barry tells her Wells killed his mom and without a pause, her next question is if he's going to kill Eddie. A friend would have asked how he was dealing with it.

She also told the flash the first time she talked to him that she wants to believe in the impossible because she has a friend who she wants to help. Clearly Barry and the death of his mother is always important to her.

 

Had she stopped to talk with Barry about Nora at that moment I would have thought something was seriously wrong with her.  Her surprised yet anguished face showed how she felt but she also realized that the man she loves is now in that same man's  clutches. She prioritized correctly.

[Xander]

I didn't expect her to stop and have a long discussion about it but something to acknowledge what she'd just heard before asking about Eddie. I think her concern for Eddie was appropriate. 

[Grace19]

she acknowledged it, because she paused and her expression changed, then she remembered Eddie and was scared for him because he is the one in immediate danger.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Grace19

[Xander]

Okay. I would have liked more than that. And if not immediately, some other time. But as previously mentioned, I gave her a pass. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by Xander

[Actionmage]

Some of her complaints and comments were ridiculous. For example, blaming Joe for Eddie being kidnapped was ridiculous.

 

Not so ridiculous. Granted, apparently Eobard is fond of surveillance, but all Joe had to do was research at work. Once his daughter's life was in danger,  he could have cautioned Iris about dealing with Wells. Our heroes didn't have the framework to think about a familial tie to Wells, as Eobard stole Wells' life. But sending two obvious targets away from anything resembling safety, was dumb. So Joe, Orchestrator of Protection, did contribute a great deal to Eddie ending up a prisoner of his own descendant.

 

Barry tells her Wells killed his mom and without a pause, her next question is if he's going to kill Eddie. A friend would have asked how he was dealing with it. 

 

Learning "Wells" was the Man in Yellow probably was yet another piece of info Iris had to chew on in an episode whereshe kept having information handed to her that  needs more than a minute to handle. As to how Barry felt? She knows how he felt-- from roughly the age of 11 until they went to college, they lived in the same house. It is Barry's driving goal. I think Iris understands. Still? They could have had the proposed nice discussion a couple of episodes earlier if Iris had been told the secret.

 

 

Comments like, "You guys save so many people but you can't save my dad and Eddie?" when it wasn't like they were sitting around eating bonbons was unnecessary. But we can give her a pass because everyone is allowed to get mad and lash out from time to time.

 

Yes, we can give her a pass. Joe and Eddie, at that time, were still kidnapped by two menaces.   I would probably have said that and not in the nicest terms either, I'm not proud to admit. Joe was rescued, but Eddie is still out there.  I can't speak to Caitlyn and Cisco, but the ending scenes were Barry in civvies talking to Iris and still trying to get her to admit she feels something for him while Eddie is prisoner of Eobard!  That isn't doing everything possible.  Someone said that we kept seeing Barry running around town.  Well, where did the group find Grodd, in a hotel ballroom? in the CC Arboretum? No, in the sewers, yet instead of  the umpteenth shot of Barry zigzagging on surface streets, there could have been a computer screen of Barry/a red dot zigzagging through a schematic for the city's sewer system. Cisco could even have been grumbling about how stinky Barry's getting his [Cisco's] suit. 

 

So Iris calling the Flash Mob out for seeming to give up with two friends/allies at the mercy of a murderer and a telepathic ape is understandable. 

 

Also, Iris not calling Barry out for beating on Eddie.  As with everything else, Iris probably still doesn't know about that, so why would she automatically trust everything Barry says about finding Eddie?  She will probably forgive him Because Metahuman, but until she learns about that, how can she trust that Barry isn't working an angle?

[Xander]

 

Not so ridiculous. Granted, apparently Eobard is fond of surveillance, but all Joe had to do was research at work. Once his daughter's life was in danger,  he could have cautioned Iris about dealing with Wells.

That wasn't her reasoning. Her reasoning was that if Joe had told her how Barry had felt about her, she wouldn't have dated Eddie and he wouldn't have been kidnapped/ 

[ruby24]

Yeah, she needs to dump Eddie. If she already knows she would never have dated him if she knew how Barry felt, then clearly she wants to be with Barry.

[phoenics]

Yeah, she needs to dump Eddie. If she already knows she would never have dated him if she knew how Barry felt, then clearly she wants to be with Barry.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but it looks like Joe was right about his sentiment that Iris would marry Eddie even though she really loves Barry - but he's still wrong for not letting her make her own choices.

I think I'm just tired of everyone else speaking to Iris' feelings except Iris herself. Finally she did some in this episode (and it will stick I think), but geez.

[SevenStars]

Yeah, she needs to dump Eddie. If she already knows she would never have dated him if she knew how Barry felt, then clearly she wants to be with Barry.

 

Answering this in the relationship thread. 

[driedfruit]

That wasn't her reasoning. Her reasoning was that if Joe had told her how Barry had felt about her, she wouldn't have dated Eddie and he wouldn't have been kidnapped/ 

 

Iris doesn't know Wells is a Thawne so she assumed that Eddie was a target because of her and her association to Flash. So yes, she was blaming Joe as an extension of blaming herself. 

 

The hate Iris gets is sourced in stubborn refusal to see anything from her point of view. Yes, she blames Joe for Eddie's situation, but let's step back and look at what she knows and the natural human response to the situation. It's not hard, not unless you're looking specifically to hate. It's the same deal with her lashing out on Cisco and Caitlin. Yeah, she was being a bit unfair, but given the situation it was a perfectly human response.

 

The criticism she gets in a lot of the nastier places basically amounts to, "How dare she have negative human emotions?" and "How dare she have an opinion opposite to the main male characters" and "How dare she fault the male protagonist for anything when he's out there saving lives, since that apparently gives him immunity for everything he does to anyone". It's just any old case of people feeling threatened by a female character getting the smallest bit of prominence in a male power fantasy. 

[Actionmage]

The criticism she gets in a lot of the nastier places basically amounts to, "How dare she have negative human emotions?" and "How dare she have an opinion opposite to the main male characters" and "How dare she fault the male protagonist for anything when he's out there saving lives, since that apparently gives him immunity for everything he does to anyone". It's just any old case of people feeling threatened by a female character getting the smallest bit of prominence in a male power fantasy.

 

Responding in Lightning Rod thread

[chelsie]

I realise I am perhaps opening up a can of worms here, but I think  a reason for some of the Iris-hate is partially that they don't want an african american love interest for the hero over a caucasian one (Caitlin). Its not the only reason but I do feel that could be a factor.

 

Another overarching issue is how Iris is written. That is, she is written as stupid at times in order to keep her in the dark. Barry's flash-masked face blown up and splashed across national papers is a prime example; sure others who should have recognised him but Iris grew up with him, is his bff/love interest, he is her love interest, etc. I just don't buy that this is something she won't have figured out independantly a long time ago, especially when jail-bird Henry, whom Barry sees far less in comparison, managed to figure it out.

 

She just now needs to be a part of the team and included in the story, and I don't think that would have been achieved if things were overly acrimonous with Barry/Joe/Iris.

Edited May 9, 2015 by chelsie

[Oscirus]

Some of her complaints and comments were ridiculous. For example, blaming Joe for Eddie being kidnapped was ridiculous. Barry tells her Wells killed his mom and without a pause, her next question is if he's going to kill Eddie. A friend would have asked how he was dealing with it.  Comments like, "You guys save so many people but you can't save my dad and Eddie?" when it wasn't like they were sitting around eating bonbons was unnecessary.

 

Admittedly the first part was ship pushing bullshit which if not for Candace immediately recovering from that would've almost definitely derailed Iris's argument with her father.  For the second part, maybe she didn't say something to Barry at the time, but we did see her researching the Nora Allen murder in her next scene. For the third part,  Cisco who's been inventing things on command was suddenly talking about not being able to invent things without Wells' help. Somebody needed to smack some sense into him. It probably should've been Barry, but still.

 

 

 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh, how I love me my Lex Luthor err, I mean Clancy Brown! And using his voice as Grodd's is just as good if they didn't want to try for Powers Booth.

 

I loved how Iris ripped into both Barry and Joe, and even told Caitlin, that she lied too.  Though how Barry was able to convince Iris for so long by lying to her is mind boggling. He's a terrible liar.

 

What I didn't like, was that apparently, Wells 'birthed' Grodd. I really wish he was an intelligent gorilla with mind control powers, something he already had in the Justice League cartoon. Hey, this show is about a comic book character, so I don't see why Grodd couldn't just be his own villain, if that makes sense.   I love Tom Cavanaugh, but admittedly, I'm getting weary of how he's behind everyTHING.  Makes him less interesting to me, not more.  And that banana thing totally reminded me of Justice League, when Wally's Flash gave Grodd a banana, not realizing who Grodd was.

 

Now, I haven't watched Arrow since its first season, but I keep seeing the previews for its finale, and it makes me wonder, just how it is he shows up as Arrow next week on this show. I mean, from what I've seen, he's locked up Felicity and whoever else, and keeps saying "Oliver Queen is DEAD!"

 

But regardless, I'm still looking forward to next week.