Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[Dimity]

19 hours ago, PRgal said:

We definitely said a prayer before lunch when I was at my Catholic elementary school (“Bless us O Lord in these Thy Gift…”) in addition to a prayer after O Canada in the morning.  We often had a prayer to start the afternoon as well.  This was in the 80s.

I thought we were talking about Catholic parents and homelife? 

IME in terms of being raised Catholic there is a world of difference between what goes on in a private home as opposed to a more public setting like a Catholic school.  

Some families are more religious than others but very few IME were overtly Catholic in their every day life.  

Edited July 9 by Dimity

[ECM1231]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

My Mother did say her rosary every day

So did my mom, although she wasn't at Mass most Sundays. My mom was a very sickly woman for most of her life and died at the rather early age of 55. She did insist, however, that my sister and I attend Mass each week, which we did, mostly by ourselves. Our church was only about a 4-block walk from our home. I honestly can't remember if our dad took us when we were too young to go by ourselves. Perhaps my mom was in better health in those years, and we walked together. Dad, curiously enough, got way more religious in his 60s after he remarried. He and his wife became Eucharistic Ministers in our church and distributed the Eucharist weekly. or at least a few Masses during each month. 

We never said Grace before meals, although the Irish Catholic Reagan family on the show Blue Bloods, does. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

We never said Grace before meals, although the Irish Catholic Reagan family on the show Blue Bloods, does. 

So that's not typical? 
It's been too long for me to recall since I had dinner at the home of one of my Catholic childhood friends, but I don't think they did say grace. IDK. Maybe?

 

23 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

My Dad was raised very Catholic and in turn did the same on me.  I mean I had to go to Church with him every Sunday and he'd get mad for instance if I didn't kneel down to pray with him before the mass.

 

But at this point my Dad completely tuned out to Catholicism and Church.  He says a priest said once to him people over 65 don't have to go anymore so he feels he is exempt.  

 

I mean all that is good and yeah it's funny as a kid I got my wish that he doesn't force me anymore.  But it's weird though.  He used to always have these excuses/sayings for me God hears people more in groups to defend always going.  It's just a little weird to me his feelings did a total 180 on it.  And I'm just left to ask what the heck was that all about then?

 

But I do like some service/nostalgic aspects of Church so I still try and go.  

Thinking some more about your Dad's changed attitudes and ideas about his religion late in life brings back my Mom's literal wailing for a year after Dad died, which included, "Don't leave me! Take me with you!" repeated over and over and over again, sometimes for what seemed like an hour. 
In addition to this being very difficult to witness, it was totally at odds with what she had told me when I was a young adult: "I don't believe there's a Heaven or a Hell. When you die, that's it. There's nothing." 
But before Dad died, she also used to say not to scatter her ashes in the ocean because she had been deathly afraid of the water her entire life.
So I'm not sure if her ideas evolved, or if they were just variable.

 

Edited July 9 by shapeshifter

[BlueSkies]

3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

So that's not typical? 
It's been too long for me to recall since I had dinner at the home of one of my Catholic childhood friends, but I don't think they did. 

 

Thinking some more about your Dad's changed attitudes and ideas about his religion late in life brings back my Mom's literal wailing for a year after Dad died, which included, "Don't leave me! Take me with you!" repeated over and over and over again, sometimes for what seemed like an hour. 
In addition to this being very difficult to witness, it was totally at odds with what she had told me when I was a young adult: "I don't believe there's a Heaven or a Hell. When you die, that's it. There's nothing." 
But before Dad died, she also used to say not to scatter her ashes in the ocean because she had been deathly afraid of the water her entire life.
So I'm not sure if her ideas evolved, or if they were just variable.

 

I think he was kind of a prick about it in retrospect.  I mean to a degree.  

 

My problem is I'm not strong enough to ever sort of confront him about it.  Or he'll just talk over me.  I still live with him so I'm still dependent on him to a degree.  

 

Like even at work today I had a long stressful day.  He asked me flat out Why?  To which I just told him I try to block stuff out when I get home.  The bottom line is I never really feel "heard" speaking to this man.  

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, Dimity said:

I always figured this was a Baptist thing - or certainly a stereotypical TV Christian thing anyway.

Same here; the only times I've ever seen it happen outside of TV are with my Baptist aunt and uncle and with a friend's mom who is I'm not sure what denomination but something within the Protestant umbrella.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

I think he was kind of a prick about it in retrospect.  I mean to a degree.  

 

My problem is I'm not strong enough to ever sort of confront him about it.  Or he'll just talk over me.  I still live with him so I'm still dependent on him to a degree.  

 

Like even at work today I had a long stressful day.  He asked me flat out Why?  To which I just told him I try to block stuff out when I get home.  The bottom line is I never really feel "heard" speaking to this man.  

Could it be that your Dad is literally not hearing you? After my Dad finally got hearing aids, our relationship totally turned around for the better. Even late in his life when he could barely hear even with hearing aids, we had at least established when he was in his 60s and I was in my 30s that I no longer had my default mad-at-the-world, teenage attitude, and, more importantly, I had some ideas he could respect.

But my adult daughters and I don’t always communicate well either. It would take a lot of emotional effort for us to live together.

Edited July 9 by shapeshifter

[supposebly]

There are certainly cultural differences when it comes to Catholicism. I grew up Catholic in small town Bavaria, which is more of a cultural thing and has less to do with actual faith. I'm sure for some, but I would suspect for less than half.

I've never seen/heard anyone say grace until I saw it on American TV/movies.  

Both my parents went to Sunday mass when I was younger. My dad stopped at some point, I can't remember when but quite a long time ago. 

My mom still goes but prefers the local protestant service. She says it's shorter and the pews are more comfortable.😆 

It's more of a spiritual and meditative thing for her. She's kind of a "just in case" Christian I call her. She prays for us "just in case" hell exists and we might end up in it.😆

[Quof]

"Get your fire insurance"

[PRgal]

I'm not sure what the custom in an Anglican/Episcopalian home is, but boarders said grace before dinner at my high school (something simple like "For what we're about to receive, may we be truly grateful") when I was there (temporary boarder when my parents had to go away).

[Caoimhe]

Neither my husband’s nor my family ever had a prayer of any sort before a meal even when we were children. None of our friends did either (though we were marched off to mass every Sunday). My husband eventually got out of the long Good Friday service by being ill (he didn’t fake it either) so they let him skip that one going forward! 

[supposebly]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

but boarders said grace before dinner at my high school

I went to a Catholic convent school and we didn't say grace for lunch or breakfast. Not to the boarding part of the school. Not sure what the nuns might have made the boarders do.....They closed the boarding part of the school a year or two after I started.

However, we recited the Lord's Prayer in Latin after our first year of Latin when Latin was the first class of the day. Now I'm realizing that this was probably only something our first Latin teacher thought was cool.🤨 He was kind of old school. Obviously.😉

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, supposebly said:

I went to a Catholic convent school and we didn't say grace for lunch or breakfast. Not to the boarding part of the school. Not sure what the nuns might have made the boarders do.....They closed the boarding part of the school a year or two after I started.

However, we recited the Lord's Prayer in Latin after our first year of Latin when Latin was the first class of the day. Now I'm realizing that this was probably only something our first Latin teacher thought was cool.🤨 He was kind of old school. Obviously.😉

Latin teachers are like that.  The Latin teacher at my school used to sing O Come All Ye Faithful in its (original?) Latin during the Christmas service in chapel!  

[Dimity]

13 minutes ago, supposebly said:

However, we recited the Lord's Prayer in Latin after our first year of Latin when Latin was the first class of the day. Now I'm realizing that this was probably only something our first Latin teacher thought was cool.🤨 He was kind of old school. Obviously.😉

Never had Latin that I can remember but because I was taught directly by Nuns through part of my elementary school experience they did take time to teach us a lot more prayers than should probably have been part of the school curriculum! This may be one of the reasons the province I grew up in phased out publicly funded Catholic schools not so very long after I graduated.

[Mondrianyone]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

The Latin teacher at my school used to sing O Come All Ye Faithful in its (original?) Latin during the Christmas service in chapel!  

This may shock you, but . . .

I can sing "O Come All Ye Faithful" in Latin, and I was raised Jewish! (Okay, my father was Catholic, but he converted to marry my mother, so I never got any RC education.)

This reminds me of an old SNL skit. It was the interdenominational Xmas party at the Knights of Columbus hall, and the time came to bust out the carols. Each song, the Catholics knew the first line and then faded out, but the rabbi always knew all the words. (I'd link it, but I can't find it on YouTube.) Very funny--and kind of true.

ETA: I also taught myself to sing the "Marseillaise" in French after watching Casablanca a hundred times, so I just may be strange about songs in another language.

Edited July 9 by Mondrianyone

[Quof]

Adeste Fideles

is much better in Latin.  Says this heathen. 

[Caoimhe]

Adestes Fideles is one of those that I always remember being in Latin! We had to pray at the start of the school day but that was it (other than religion class, especially in communion and confirmation years). After escaping religious education in my teen years I was happy to check the “no religion” box in the census and my views haven’t changed.

[Absolom]

Oddly I learned Adestes Fideles at Methodist choir going with my cousin.

[Anela]

10 hours ago, PRgal said:

I'm not sure what the custom in an Anglican/Episcopalian home is, but boarders said grace before dinner at my high school (something simple like "For what we're about to receive, may we be truly grateful") when I was there (temporary boarder when my parents had to go away).

I can't remember if we ever prayed before dinner, but mum taught us a prayer at bedtime. "Lord keep us safe this night, secure from all our fears. May angels guard us while we sleep, 'til morning light appear, amen." 

My sister became religious when we were teenagers, and that Robert Tilton was on the TV, scamming viewers. She would watch him, and once sent some money for a little piece of red cloth that he said came from something special. I can't remember what. It wasn't long after, that the news came out about their putting prayer requests in the bin, if they didn't include money. She used to pray before every meal. I walked into the bedroom when she was doing that once, and felt bad. I didn't want to embarrass her. She's no longer a believer, as far as I know. She talked about converting to Catholicism for her husband, and when mum died, she told me that she didn't really believe any of it, anymore. 

I occasionally say a "thank you" to any chicken I'm cooking, when I'm making another attempt at a roast chicken. Even though it hasn't been alive for a while. Just a thank you for feeding us, because I feel guilty. When I was a vegetarian, it was for the animals. 

Edited July 10 by Anela

[isalicat]

Raised by atheists (secular Jews), my parents and I never expressed any thanks before meals but now that I am a Catholic I am happy to say "thank you!" for the food (and that I have as much as I need and want) at each repast. Its also a great thing to do (quietly) in public as a testament to my faith. Psychology teaches us that gratitude is the first sign of mental health, so even if you aren't grateful to a particular deity, its crucial to review all one's "blessings" to have the right attitude about stuff.

[Anela]

50 minutes ago, isalicat said:

Raised by atheists (secular Jews), my parents and I never expressed any thanks before meals but now that I am a Catholic I am happy to say "thank you!" for the food (and that I have as much as I need and want) at each repast. Its also a great thing to do (quietly) in public as a testament to my faith. Psychology teaches us that gratitude is the first sign of mental health, so even if you aren't grateful to a particular deity, its crucial to review all one's "blessings" to have the right attitude about stuff.

I am always grateful for what I have. It's just difficult when worries are piling up, that can't be solved with gratitude. It's all money, time, and the ability to get somewhere. I lost a tooth, a couple of weeks ago, because I couldn't get to the dentist, and I had a lump for a couple of months, that finally went away in May. I was hoping it was a cyst. Not on my breast, but underneath it. When I mentioned it to my dad, and he walked away, and then came back and told me to keep an eye on it, I got scared. You keep putting things off for food, taking cats to the vet, bills, more food. What can I afford to do this week? Can I make an appointment, or will dad's day off be switched again, because someone else needed that day off? 

When I left the thread yesterday, I remembered my sister used to tell me that I would go to hell, if I didn't pray. She was a kid, so it wasn't terrible, but it hurt. 

[Anela]

Thinking of Robert Tilton, also reminded me of how susceptible my sister was to her husband. He was mid-forties when she met him online. She was 19/20. I don't know why he thought I would sleep with him, too. I wasn't attracted to him, he was 23 years older than me, and he was with my sister, who was head over heels in love. I think of what she could have done with her life, she was smart, and had things that she wanted to do, until she got serious with him. 

Someone in another thread I was reading this morning, sounded just like me, only she's married. It's stuff I've mentioned before. I had friends, but my family was my main social life after we left England, and we were doing fine until things happened, and my sister did her thing. But that's for another time. My friends are all far away from me, except for one, who lives half an hour away, but I've been too afraid to meet her IRL, because of my social anxiety/PTSD. I freeze. She went up to the beach when we couldn't make it, a couple of years ago, and she said I should have gone with her. She's so kind, but that was her family time, and it would have been awkward. 

[roseha]

On 7/10/2024 at 5:47 PM, Anela said:

I am always grateful for what I have. It's just difficult when worries are piling up, that can't be solved with gratitude. It's all money, time, and the ability to get somewhere. I lost a tooth, a couple of weeks ago, because I couldn't get to the dentist, and I had a lump for a couple of months, that finally went away in May. I was hoping it was a cyst. Not on my breast, but underneath it. When I mentioned it to my dad, and he walked away, and then came back and told me to keep an eye on it, I got scared. You keep putting things off for food, taking cats to the vet, bills, more food. What can I afford to do this week? Can I make an appointment, or will dad's day off be switched again, because someone else needed that day off? 

When I left the thread yesterday, I remembered my sister used to tell me that I would go to hell, if I didn't pray. She was a kid, so it wasn't terrible, but it hurt. 

@Anela that’s too bad, I hope you were able to get your tooth situation taken care of - I had a crown fall out of my mouth into the sink on a Saturday a couple of months ago and it was such a pain to deal with although my dentist did a great job.

But I do hope you will have the lump looked at also.

 

[PRgal]

Day camp for my son was nothing but a disaster this week.  We enrolled him in basketball, not knowing that he just wasn't ready.  He hated it.  Had two meltdowns and we ended up not sending him today.  He's used to being able to do things and just couldn't score any baskets.  Combined with being small for his age, it just didn't work out.  Good thing it's only a week.  He's registered for other camps, but not basketball.  :(

[Absolom]

Sometimes they just don't work.  My daughter hit that last year with volleyball and her son.  The other kids had all been playing for awhile and he was new to it.  He really hated not doing well.

Edited July 12 by Absolom

[PRgal]

27 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Sometimes they just don't work.  My daughter hit that last year with volleyball and her son.  The other kids had all been playing for awhile and was new to it.  He really hated not doing well.

We're giving "multi-sport" a try later this summer.  Maybe he would be able to find out what he DOES like.  

[Absolom]

Both kids love the multisport camps and have at least two or three weeks of it.  Granddaughter is going to a church all girl sport camp and was really looking forward to it.  

[ginger90]

When some of my grandchildren were younger they went to a sports camp at the Y. They had different stations set up with small groups working on skills in one sport, and then they rotated to another station with a different sport. I liked that setup. 

[Ancaster]

It's not a bad life lesson for kids (and adults) to learn that they aren't always the best or won't always succeed.  When my children were younger I found the relentless (undeserved) positive reinforcement and prizes/certificates for every participant at school/camp exhausting and, ultimately, meaningless.

I remember getting a comment or two like "Could do better" on a report card - it had a positive effect, probably because I knew it was true and I needed to be called out on it.

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, Ancaster said:

It's not a bad life lesson for kids (and adults) to learn that they aren't always the best or won't always succeed.  When my children were younger I found the relentless (undeserved) positive reinforcement and prizes/certificates for every participant at school/camp exhausting and, ultimately, meaningless.

I remember getting a comment or two like "Could do better" on a report card - it had a positive effect, probably because I knew it was true and I needed to be called out on it.

I'm trying to have my son understand that.  This might sound very Tiger Mom of me, but I recently purchased a Grade 1 "Canadian Curriculum" workbook with exercises in math, reading, social studies and science.  We did a social studies exercise where he had to write one word answers on what his favourite place was (the park) and what he liked to do there.  He kept on asking me how to spell words.  He knows sounds, and I told him to go with his heart.  He didn't spell a few words correctly, of course, but I made the corrections to show him.  I said that this is what Grade 1 would be like.  He can't always be asking for approval (he wasn't able to do that in SK, either).  It was only 20 minutes and he went off to play after that :). This is one of the few weeks he isn't at day camp.

[Dimity]

4 hours ago, Ancaster said:

It's not a bad life lesson for kids (and adults) to learn that they aren't always the best or won't always succeed.  When my children were younger I found the relentless (undeserved) positive reinforcement and prizes/certificates for every participant at school/camp exhausting and, ultimately, meaningless.

I never understood why so many people object to participation certificates and the like, to me it was just another way to make school/camp palatable for kids, who mainly would rather not be there in the first place!  IME anyway that didn't mean that no child got first place in something and most kids were well aware that a participation medal was exactly that, acknowledgement that they made an effort, it didn't take something away from anyone else.  If parents wanted their kids to be involved in competitive sports, or whatever, it wasn't hard to find.

[PRgal]

39 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I never understood why so many people object to participation certificates and the like, to me it was just another way to make school/camp palatable for kids, who mainly would rather not be there in the first place!  IME anyway that didn't mean that no child got first place in something and most kids were well aware that a participation medal was exactly that, acknowledgement that they made an effort, it didn't take something away from anyone else.  If parents wanted their kids to be involved in competitive sports, or whatever, it wasn't hard to find.

It's a way for kids to understand that not everyone gets something.  Like, you audition for a role in the school play but you don't get a part at all.  Or you wanted the lead but get some sort of supporting role.  Kids need to know that it's okay to be disappointed.  They need to know that one sometimes fails at something.  That said, I'm pretty neutral on participation "awards."  They existed even when I was a kid.  In the 80s.  For example, the Kiwanis club sponsored a music competition.  First, second and third place kids got certificates and acknowledgement in the Toronto Star.  However, everyone, regardless of whether they were awarded a certificate or not, received a participation ribbon.

[Dimity]

7 minutes ago, PRgal said:

  First, second and third place kids got certificates and acknowledgement in the Toronto Star.  However, everyone, regardless of whether they were awarded a certificate or not, received a participation ribbon.

Which they deserved because they participated!  It's not rewarding the undeserving when this happens and that's the message I often get when people (mostly my generation I might add) talk about this.  All children deserve to be acknowledged for making an effort.  I have yet to meet any child or adult who figured that their participation ribbon was an actual prize for something.  Kids aren't stupid.

Just as an example that isn't kid related - each year my husband (before his knees gave out) partipated in the annual Army Fun Run, and each year he got a T shirt or a hat just because he registered to compete.  He was under no illusion that this meant he'd actually won (he was thrilled to cross the finish line!) but for an adult this is roughly the equivalent of a participation medal for a kid and I don't see anyone thinking this is somehow spoiling things for the actual winners or coddling all the losers!

Edited July 15 by Dimity

[Ancaster]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

Which they deserved because they participated!  It's not rewarding the undeserving when this happens and that's the message I often get when people (mostly my generation I might add) talk about this.  All children deserve to be acknowledged for making an effort.  I have yet to meet any child or adult who figured that their participation ribbon was an actual prize for something.  Kids aren't stupid.

Just as an example that isn't kid related - each year my husband (before his knees gave out) partipated in the annual Army Fun Run, and each year he got a T shirt or a hat just because he registered to compete.  He was under no illusion that this meant he'd actually won (he was thrilled to cross the finish line!) but for an adult this is roughly the equivalent of a participation medal for a kid and I don't see anyone thinking this is somehow spoiling things for the actual winners or coddling all the losers!

 

Your husband chose to participate and presumably paid an entry fee, part of which is earmarked for the t shirts/hats.

Why give a "participation" certificate to the kids who don't engage/goof off/play on their phones under the desk/cause trouble/bully and tease/don't make the slightest effort?

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Ancaster said:

Your husband chose to participate and presumably paid an entry fee, part of which is earmarked for the t shirts/hats.

Why give a "participation" certificate to the kids who don't engage/goof off/play on their phones under the desk/cause trouble/bully and tease/don't make the slightest effort?

Indeed, they should not get a participation award if they don't participate. Do they?
Of course, if they don't get a participation credit if they goof off, then this sets up an in-group/out-group atmosphere, which does not sound healthy either.

How about the goof-offs get a "Attendee" certificate, and others get a "Participation" certificate?

Edited July 15 by shapeshifter

[StatisticalOutlier]

22 hours ago, Dimity said:

All children deserve to be acknowledged for making an effort.  I have yet to meet any child or adult who figured that their participation ribbon was an actual prize for something.  Kids aren't stupid.

But maybe it plants a seed.

A couple of years ago there was a brouhaha over a professor at NYU who was fired.  Earlier that year, 82 of the 350 students in his organic chemistry class signed a petition complaining about the professor, how he taught his class, and that their grades were too low.  The professor had decades of teaching experience at Princeton, where he had pioneered a new way to teach organic chemistry years ago, and wrote a textbook that is widely used.

One complaint in the petition stood out to a lot of people:  "We are very concerned about our scores, and find that they are not an accurate reflection of the time and effort put into this class."

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But maybe it plants a seed.

A couple of years ago there was a brouhaha over a professor at NYU who was fired.  Earlier that year, 82 of the 350 students in his organic chemistry class signed a petition complaining about the professor, how he taught his class, and that their grades were too low.  The professor had decades of teaching experience at Princeton, where he had pioneered a new way to teach organic chemistry years ago, and wrote a textbook that is widely used.

One complaint in the petition stood out to a lot of people:  "We are very concerned about our scores, and find that they are not an accurate reflection of the time and effort put into this class."

I remember that brouhaha, and I sided with the professor. I took one semester of organic chemistry, and that’s one of the reasons I’m not a doctor today.  organic is a weedout class for premeds. The students are not happy with their grades for that reason. No one takes organic for any other reason unless they’re chem majors. I realized I was in the wrong field and did not put the time in to do well. If you put the time in for a class like that you will get a good grade. It’s not a subjective grading system like English lit. There’s only one right answer for each question.  

[EtheltoTillie]

My husband is a doctor, and we went to the same college. He was a year ahead of me.  He got A plus in chemistry. I tried to follow his study technique, which was to do the problem sets multiple times. I did that for the first physics test and got the highest grade in the class. But I was bored to tears and did not continue that level of effort. I kept reading popular magazines and ended up as a magazine editor. Then a lawyer. I’m a word person. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

19 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

If you put the time in for a class like that you will get a good grade.

I'm not so sure.  I could study electricity or physics or chemistry 12 hours a day for the rest of my life and I still wouldn't understand any of it. 

Mr. Outlier is a gifted electrical engineer and we live in an RV and have to manage electricity coming from an electric pedestal we plug the RV in to, as well as electricity that feeds DC loads from batteries, plus solar when we're some place without electric hookups.  Even after 20 years of this, and I can't even fathom how many hours of patient explanation by someone who really wants to help me understand (unlike those mean professors who hate their students), I have only the barest understanding of any of it.  It just boggles my mind how electricity gets generated, transmitted, and used.  I will never understand it. 

I suspect chemistry would be the same.  In high school Chemistry we learned how to balance equations, and I could do that until the cows come home because it's just rote.  Something about aluminum being +3 still rings a bell.  But understanding what I was actually doing?  Never.  Literally never.

And even the gifted Mr. Outlier--he simply can't understand how a bobbin works.  (Confession:  neither can I, but I kind of pretend I do just to lord it over him.)

So it's possible these disgruntled organic chemistry students really did put in as much time as they say they did.  But even the concept of getting an objective grade based on the amount of effort rather than mastery of the material is what's troubling.  It sure never occurred to me, and it's worth thinking about where that came from and if it's too late to put the horse back in the barn or if anybody even wants to put the horse back in the barn because the oldsters like me are dying off. 

Maybe organic chemistry has nothing to do with being a good doctor.  Maybe it does.  Maybe we should make all doctors post their organic chemistry grade next to their medical license so we consumers can decide if it matters to us or not.  And maybe let the doctor put a note next to it that the grade is not reflective of the amount of effort they made, so younger people can correct for that.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Maybe organic chemistry has nothing to do with being a good doctor.  Maybe it does.  Maybe we should make all doctors post their organic chemistry grade next to their medical license so we consumers can decide if it matters to us or not.  And maybe let the doctor put a note next to it that the grade is not reflective of the amount of effort they made, so younger people can correct for that.

This could be a great doctoral thesis in a multi-disciplinary program!
If the subjects identities were anonymized, I don't see why it couldn't be done, except that likely the doctors would not trust their identities to not leak out, which is understandable.

Ooo. Maybe something similar could be done with college professors' grades. 
I'm sure there would be enough willing to participate on principle. 

Edited July 16 by shapeshifter

[PRgal]

They say that the pandemic greatly disrupted education and I didn't realize caused an affect on my son, who wasn't even in school during that time (okay, his preschool year was spent masked, as was part of JK) until today.  We worked on a supplementary worksheet to prep him for Grade 1 where he had to colour in the letter sound a word began with.  It was after he read a story about a visit to a farm.  He knew what all the animals and produce were, but he didn't know what a barn was.  And he didn't ask me when he read the story, so I assumed he knew.  Yes, he's a city boy, but I was a suburban girl who didn't even speak English until she was four and knew at his age (5 3/4).  This was thanks to shows like Polka Dot Door and Sesame Street as well as numerous books.  He has tons of books, but was it not diverse enough?  He didn't seem at all interested in animal stories (I bought him the first four Beatrix Potter books and we only to the third page of the first one!).  I mean, I tried...

His math and reading/writing levels are amazing though.  

Edited July 16 by PRgal

[Browncoat]

I'm the weirdo who liked organic chemistry.  It made sense to me.  I was a Bio major who thought I was pre-med, but wised up when I got to upper level lab classes.  I like being in the lab!  I probably would have taken organic regardless.  Biochem, too.  But yes, chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, biology -- all are foundations to understanding how the human body functions, and so I think are important for doctors to understand.  

[partofme]

On 7/8/2024 at 3:36 PM, Dimity said:

My parents were Catholic and I went to Catholic schools until university and I can't remember ever saying grace before a meal.  I don't know if this is typical in Catholic households or not but given most of my school friends were also Catholic it was also not something I ever experienced in any other house.  I always figured this was a Baptist thing - or certainly a stereotypical TV Christian thing anyway.

I was raised Catholic, we always said grace before dinner at home, not when we went out to eat and never before breakfast or lunch.  I went to Catholic school from first to fourth grade and we never said grace at lunch time in school.  

On 7/8/2024 at 3:36 PM, Dimity said:

My parents were Catholic and I went to Catholic schools until university and I can't remember ever saying grace before a meal.  I don't know if this is typical in Catholic households or not but given most of my school friends were also Catholic it was also not something I ever experienced in any other house.  I always figured this was a Baptist thing - or certainly a stereotypical TV Christian thing anyway.

I was raised Catholic, we always said grace before dinner at home, not when we went out to eat and never before breakfast or lunch.  I went to Catholic school from first to fourth grade and we never said grace at lunch time in school.  

On 7/8/2024 at 3:36 PM, Dimity said:

My parents were Catholic and I went to Catholic schools until university and I can't remember ever saying grace before a meal.  I don't know if this is typical in Catholic households or not but given most of my school friends were also Catholic it was also not something I ever experienced in any other house.  I always figured this was a Baptist thing - or certainly a stereotypical TV Christian thing anyway.

I was raised Catholic, we always said grace before dinner at home, not when we went out to eat and never before breakfast or lunch.  I went to Catholic school from first to fourth grade and we never said grace at lunch time in school.  

[SoMuchTV]

19 minutes ago, PRgal said:

They say that the pandemic greatly disrupted education and I didn't realize caused an affect on my son, who wasn't even in school during that time (okay, his preschool year was spent masked, as was part of JK) until today.  We worked on a supplementary worksheet to prep him for Grade 1 where he had to colour in the letter sound a word began with.  It was after he read a story about a visit to a farm.  He knew what all the animals and produce were, but he didn't know what a barn was.  And he didn't ask me when he read the story, so I assumed he knew.  Yes, he's a city boy, but I was a suburban girl who didn't even speak English until she was four and knew at his age (5 3/4).  This was thanks to shows like Polka Dot Door and Sesame Street as well as numerous books.  He has tons of books, but was it not diverse enough?  He didn't seem at all interested in animal stories (I bought him the first four Beatrix Potter books and we only to the third page of the first one!).  I mean, I tried...

His math and reading/writing levels are amazing though.  

I honestly don’t see how that’s a result of the pandemic. It was just a gap in his knowledge that has now been filled in. Heck, my kids are in their 30s and I’m still discovering things where I say, you didn’t know that? Oops!

Read Charlotte’s Web with him, take a trip to a petting zoo, but don’t beat yourself up. 

[supposebly]

My farmer father is still mystified how it's possible that I can't distinguish between an apple tree and pear tree with all my years at school and a PhD in linguistics 😆.

[Dimity]

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Heck, my kids are in their 30s and I’m still discovering things where I say, you didn’t know that? Oops!

I've definitely had this experience as well.  Some things that I would absolutely consider common knowledge, apparently aren't!

Edited July 17 by Dimity

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

I honestly don’t see how that’s a result of the pandemic. It was just a gap in his knowledge that has now been filled in. Heck, my kids are in their 30s and I’m still discovering things where I say, you didn’t know that? Oops!

Read Charlotte’s Web with him, take a trip to a petting zoo, but don’t beat yourself up. 

I'll try to read Charlotte's Web without crying!

[Ancaster]

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I honestly don’t see how that’s a result of the pandemic. It was just a gap in his knowledge that has now been filled in. Heck, my kids are in their 30s and I’m still discovering things where I say, you didn’t know that? Oops!

Read Charlotte’s Web with him, take a trip to a petting zoo, but don’t beat yourself up. 

I'd marked the OP post to say exactly this.  Every child should know Charlotte's Web and I'm not sure why anyone would think the pandemic had anything to with anything.

And don't beat yourself up about what he's read or not read (or had read to him).  There are a bajillion books out there, and if your son is like every other child out there, he will go through phases.  Dinosaurs much?

[ParadoxLost]

2 hours ago, supposebly said:

My farmer father is still mystified how it's possible that I can't distinguish between an apple tree and pear tree with all my years at school and a PhD in linguistics 😆.

I was in my 30s when I called my parents and asked them how to eat a peach.  Peel the skin or eat the skin.  They didn't know either.  This was apparently the first peach from an orchard, and not a can, my family ever encountered.  I grew up in the Peach State.

Edited July 17 by ParadoxLost

[Ancaster]

I read Anne of Green Gables many times as a teen, but it never even occurred to me to wonder what a gable was.

Edited July 17 by Ancaster

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

They say that the pandemic greatly disrupted education and I didn't realize caused an affect on my son, who wasn't even in school during that time… he didn't know what a barn was.…
His math and reading/writing levels are amazing though.  

4 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I honestly don’t see how that’s a result of the pandemic. It was just a gap in his knowledge

I agree. Nobody can know everything. Recent (post-Velveteen Rabbit) innovations in technology and media have created huge amounts of stuff to know, but also created ways of obtaining information easily. 
The most important part may be teaching children to how to evaluate information.