S01.E04: The Devil's Spit

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

 

Aware that her power in court rests on producing a male heir, Anne becomes paranoid.

[kieyra]

This was a heavy Thomas More episode, and that's not my favorite part of the show, so it wasn't as interesting as the episodes where Cromwell gets to play off members of the monarchy and peers. Still appreciating the liberal use of book dialogue and scenes, though. 

[Primetimer]

Disappointing babies, chained-up nuns, and a beheading: this episode of Wolf Hall really has it all.

Read the story

[HoodlumSheep]

I actually liked the Thomas More bits. They were excellenty acted. They had an emotional weight to them. That flashback...did this mean that he did remember them meeting, or was that flashback solely from Cromwell's point of view?

I'm so proud of myself. I actually wasn't completely lost on what was happening this week! Probably because it was pretty much solely focused on one thing: getting More to sign the oath.

I wasn't confused until the very end. Cromwell actually had a fever, right? And he dreamed of the lady in the painting. Why was the one bishop(?) Guy there though?

And last question; the one servant/helper kid that gave Cromwell More's bible, wasn't he the one who had earlier ditched the Cardinal? But now he's back in Cromwell's circle? Or am I confusing young guys?

And now it is my head canon that Cromwell deemed More his enemy the moment he didn't wave back when they were kids.

[ScoobyDrew]

Man, I get why Anne is overcompensating, but dang ! Ease up on being a harpy in front of the king ... nothing good comes of it!

[sugarbaker design]

It seems that the first four parts are Wolf Hall and the last two are Bring Up The Bodies, just as well, Wolf Hall was more densely packed.  One of the many things I'm enjoying is the pacing, every episode the plot moves, as Cromwell's thirst for revenge and power grows.  This was a very good episode, but I cannot wait for the next two.  Shit really goes down!

 

the one servant/helper kid that gave Cromwell More's bible,

 

 

That was Rafe Sadler, Cromwell's ward/adopted son.

 

did this mean that he did remember them meeting, or was that flashback solely from Cromwell's point of view?

 

 

That was definitely Cromwell's POV, More was much too important to remember a lowly serving boy.

Edited April 27, 2015 by sugarbaker design

[attica]

I was delighted to see Hans Holbein, doing his painting of TC. The blocking put MR in the exact pose, with the same awesome fur bedecked cloak, and with the same lighting. Just gorgeous.

 

I also got a yooge kick out of the scenes where Cromwell brings the hammer down on all the King's Opposers. And then kindly yet pragmatically tells them what they're going to do to make everything swell. Which they do. Because even though they're not as smart as TC, they're not nitwits.

 

The motif of Cromwell being smarter than everybody else in the room is something I find really appealing. Smart enough to know he has to play the smart thing close to his vest. But so smart he yearns for the company of somebody else to be his intellectual equal (which reminds me of Daniel Day-Lewis's Lincoln in that regard), which is why he wanted so ardently to avoid the More sitch, I think. He didn't admire More's beliefs and practices, but he recognized the value of TM's mind. 

[Maire]

Does anyone know where this was filmed? The scenes with Thomas More really looked like they were filmed in The White Tower.

[Constantinople]

Not sure I'm buying that Anne was the primary impetus behind More's execution. Or perhaps they were trying to suggest that Henry, though quieter about it, was just as obnoxious.

Pleased though that Henry told Cromwell what Henry thought about Cromwell.

[mjc570]

My DVR cut out just as they arrived at (I assume) Wolf Hall.  Did anything significant happen?

I liked the episode, mainly because I'm an Anton Lesser (T. More) fan, and it was fairly easy to follow. 

[duVerre]

 

I wasn't confused until the very end. Cromwell actually had a fever, right? And he dreamed of the lady in the painting.

 

I thought he was dreaming of Liz. IIRC, the dialogue about not stopping to think about how you accomplish something you do automatically is from the book.

Edited April 27, 2015 by duVerre

[duVerre]

I was far more interested in this episode than previous ones. 

 

First, I find a frightened and vulnerable Anne Boleyn more sympathetic than the wilful Anne in previous episodes. The drama is a lot more interesting when I can root for everyone to some degree.

 

I also love the nature of the Thomas More/Thomas Cromwell friendship (if you can call it that). More is an idealist and a fanatic. On the other hand, Cromwell is a pragmatist, and can't understand people who would literally rather die than adjust their principles. He can see that principle gives people a reason to live, he doesn't think it is a reason to die. He also sees that it can blind people to its bad effects. (e.g. More truly doesn't see himself as a man who causes other people pain. Cromwell knows him as a man who had a friend of his burned alive, for the simple act of reading the Bible in English.) The way Cromwell sees it, he is offering everyone in the programme a chance to survive, to live another day. Though he is a man of thought, he is ultimately a man of action, and he thinks other people will have ordered their values in the same way. Loving family and friends are the ultimate values to Cromwell, and he can't comprehend why anyone would willingly give them up. He wants to live THIS life, not the afterlife.

 

But as Henry points out, he is Henry's creature; everything Cromwell has flows from him. So Cromwell does what he has to, with great efficiency, hoping the lion's claws don't suddenly strike him.

Edited April 27, 2015 by duVerre

[LuciaMia]

The actress who plays Anne looked so familiar, especially her profile. Looking up and, yes of course, she was the lead in the latest adaption of 'Little Dorrit.'  Veeeeery different characters.

*********

On the shallow side- there are times when Anne's bodice is so low and so tight I keep expecting her to pop out.

**********

The character Richard Rich is framed a bit easier (so far) than the weasely opportunist in 'A Man For All Seasons.'   But if you read the historical records, he doesn't come across as much better.

[blackwing]

I've gotten to the point where I am only watching for the sake of watching.  Sometimes I don't pay close attention, and I definitely don't rewind if I miss something.  When More was being executed, the scene of the two boys was a flashback in Cromwell's head right?  The boy in the window playing the flute was young More?  The boy who tried waving to him and got ignored was young Cromwell?  What is supposed to be the point?  That young More ignored young Cromwell just the same as old More ignored old Cromwell's advice?

 

Is there a particular reason why she called the book "Wolf Hall"?  I get that Wolf Hall is the home of the Seymours but the story isn't really about the Seymours, it's about Cromwell and the Seymours are just bit players.  Is it because it's a catchier title (even more so with the even catchier "Bring Up the Bodies") that is designed to sell books than simply "Cromwell"?

 

On the shallow side- there are times when Anne's bodice is so low and so tight I keep expecting her to pop out.

Historically, Anne is said to have been fairly flat chested, and it was mentioned at least twice in the opening episodes.  I'm assuming they are deliberately crushing the actress' breasts to make her appear flatter than she might actually be. Edited April 27, 2015 by blackwing

[MisterGlass]

Yes, the boy in the window was young Thomas More, and the serving boy was young Cromwell.  Cromwell kept trying to make a connection with More in the earlier episodes, and it could be seen as an attempt to influence or control him, but here it seems he admired More in spite of his flaws.  Even when he sent Richard Rich in, knowing that More would be too free with his opinion in front of someone he despised, he didn't enjoy it.  His lawyerly apology to Moore before the execution was touching. 

 

Anne's fears are her downfall.  Her perception of Mary, her railing against standard legal language, and advocation of torture made her less likable than ever.  And blaming Anne for the death of another person he respected, Cromwell decides to set the wheels in motion.

 

I agree Richard Rich comes off better here, but he seems to be a smarmy and opportunistic character no matter what.  Even Henry crossed over from being lovelorn and a bit pitiful to pitiless.

 

I enjoyed seeing Holbein.  It's nice to have a character that's just there to paint portraits and not conspire.

[Auntie Anxiety]

When it appeared that Anne miscarried, was I the only one who thought "Call the Midwives?"  And there was Jenny Lee, right on the scene.

[pasdetrois]

 

I was delighted to see Hans Holbein, doing his painting of TC. The blocking put MR in the exact pose, with the same awesome fur bedecked cloak, and with the same lighting. Just gorgeous.

I especially noticed all the painterly scenes in this episode. Just gorgeous.

 

The execution scene with More was handled well - it could have been Very Hollywood. My takeaway was that the very young Cromwell, a friendless servant boy, wanted so much to connect with the young More, and to have what More had. At the end he admired More, but he also hated him.

 

I'm just not digging Claire Foy's portrayal of Anne. It's so Mean Girl and there's not much depth there.

[Dirtybubble]

 

Wow, what can I say about this episode that hasn't already been said?  It was GREAT!  I read wikipedia and other sites to kinda keep up with who is who (I was really confused by who this Jane Rochford was) but reading about it and actually seeing it play out are two totally different things!  Everything was done perfectly although I was confused by the fever dream T.C. was having near the end of the episode.  Somebody better win an Emmy for this series!

 

Also I don't know if this has been mentioned but I am also loving the music being played in these episodes.  I'm a sucker for Renaissance and Baroque music anyway--I think that's what I need in my life, a quartet to be in every room I'm in and just play for me =)

 

 

[M. Darcy]

 

Also I don't know if this has been mentioned but I am also loving the music being played in these episodes.

The soundtrack is for sale on ITunes! 

[WhiteStumbler]

Such a beautiful, generally sun-drenched episode of WH. It was some of the darkest material (so far), meditating on royal power, religious certainty, and revenge, but it played out in the outdoors or in full daylight with the sun slanting into the amazingly high-ceilinged rooms. The only misstep for me was the way Jane Rochford was handled -- her entry seemed a bit perfunctory, and we didn't see the basis of her cattiness. Perhaps I missed something from a prior episode?

 

I loved the way Cromwell's eminently practical mind is already eying up possible successors to Anne. The Queen has become a problem, and he (Cromwell) sees a path where Anne might become a problem for the King, so TC is preparing alternatives, and has picked Jane out of the chorus line.

 

I also liked the subtle nod to the chaos that divorce could bring to the existing social order. If it is right for the king, why not his courtiers, and then the Duke of Norfolk could throw over his wife of 20 years.

 

In a work filled with memorable lines, this episode had three of my favorites...

 

#3 - TC: He (Th. More) wrote this play years ago and he sniggers, every time I trip over my lines.

-- I loved the delivery and the "misplaced" pause.

 

#2 - Put Thomas Cromwell in a dungeon, and by evening he'll be sitting on cushions, with gaolers owing him money.

-- More's wife did not come off well (too honest by half), and I was disappointed she failed to bring her monkey or More's rabbit-eared fool with her.

 

#1 - TC:  (To TM) Remember how you used to compare the King to a tame lion? You can pet him, you can pull at his ears if you wish, but all the time you're thinking 'those claws... look at those claws.'

-- Everyone who has interacted with a powerful person has had some inkling of that sensation, but here the King literally has the power of life and death. To the opponents of this concentration of religious and secular power in Henry VIII, one of those claws is Cromwell.

[sugarbaker design]

More's wife did not come off well (too honest by half), and I was disappointed she failed to bring her monkey or More's rabbit-eared fool with her.

 

She came off way worse in the book, certainly not Wendy Hiller's dutiful Alice.

[Pallas]

I think that's what I need in my life, a quartet to be in every room I'm in and just play for me =)

 

DirtyBubble, I agree!  And in a Wolf Hall  promotional "extras" game, Which Literally Entitled Character Are You?, I think we might score as Lady Besotted-Harry-Tudor's-Next-Future-Former-Queen.  As for that,

 

I loved the way Cromwell's eminently practical mind is already eying up possible successors to Anne. The Queen has become a problem, and he (Cromwell) sees a path where Anne might become a problem for the King, so TC is preparing alternatives, and has picked Jane out of the chorus line. -- WhiteStumbler

 

Cromwell seems to be the first man in the Western World to master the Rebound Principle.  Behind those raven's eyes of his and in that eminently practical mind, it seems he's sketched out sharply diagonal lines running from Katherine to her successor Anne to a potential successor, Jane...Understanding how each woman and her qualities served as a corrective to those of the (once) beloved woman immediately preceding her.  Along with that he surely also calculated how her family and their alliances could best be elevated, then neutralized, and then routed, in turn: all to the advancement of...well, let's say, Henry and the realm.

[MisterGlass]

And in order to displace Anne, he has to start separating Henry from her, and creating distance between them.

 

 

TC: He (Th. More) wrote this play years ago and he sniggers, every time I trip over my lines.

-- I loved the delivery and the "misplaced" pause.

 

I love that line as well.  It was both sad and petulant.

[turbogirlnyc]

I've gotten to the point where I am only watching for the sake of watching. Sometimes I don't pay close attention, and I definitely don't rewind if I miss something. When More was being executed, the scene of the two boys was a flashback in Cromwell's head right? The boy in the window playing the flute was young More? The boy who tried waving to him and got ignored was young Cromwell? What is supposed to be the point? That young More ignored young Cromwell just the same as old More ignored old Cromwell's advice?

Is there a particular reason why she called the book "Wolf Hall"? I get that Wolf Hall is the home of the Seymours but the story isn't really about the Seymours, it's about Cromwell and the Seymours are just bit players. Is it because it's a catchier title (even more so with the even catchier "Bring Up the Bodies") that is designed to sell books than simply "Cromwell"?

Historically, Anne is said to have been fairly flat chested, and it was mentioned at least twice in the opening episodes. I'm assuming they are deliberately crushing the actress' breasts to make her appear flatter than she might actually be.

I'm also confused as to why the book is titled Wolf Hall. Especially after I finished reading it. I get that Cromwell is looking for Anne's replacement but the significance and/or mentioning of Wolf Hall and Jane Seymour is fairly minimal. I suppose it's a catchy title so whatever works!

I thought the episode was beautifully shot and loved the acting. Rylance is growing on me slowly but surely. Damian Lewis' portrayal of Henry is very different than I'm used to. His character is more subtle and not the "larger than life" Henry I've seen before.

I can't believe there are only 2 episodes left!

[kieyra]

I suppose it could be argued that Wolf Hall was where the pivotal moment happened: Henry VIII gets his crush on Jane Seymour. Cromwell's takedown of Anne and her allies needed a Jane Seymour to exist, and that takedown elevated him to what was arguably his peak. 

 

Just spitballing. Wolf Hall also admittedly sounds cool. 

 

I also loved Claire Foy's reading of one my (many) favorite lines from the book: "They could tell Boccaccio a tale, those sinners at Wolf Hall." 

Edited April 29, 2015 by kieyra

[doodlebug]

 

When More was being executed, the scene of the two boys was a flashback in Cromwell's head right?  The boy in the window playing the flute was young More?  The boy who tried waving to him and got ignored was young Cromwell?  What is supposed to be the point?  That young More ignored young Cromwell just the same as old More ignored old Cromwell's advice?

It was meant to show the vast differences in their upbringing which ultimately lead to them becoming very different sorts of men.  Cromwell was lower class, his father a blacksmith who drank and was abusive.  More came from a family of wealth and influence and was well educated in the classic sense.  In the scenes we saw, the child Cromwell was working as a servant at Lambeth Hall, where More was a child of the upper class who was being educated there.  Cromwell was forced to go and find work as a kid because his father was not a reliable provider and he had a relative who worked in the kitchens at Lambeth who let him work there when he needed to get away from his hellish homelife. 

 

The issue it was driving home was the incredible gap between the rich and poor in those times and the disdain with which the wealthy treated the poor.  Thomas More ignored Cromwell when he was serving him food and would never have thought to acknowledge a wave from a lowly urchin.  As adults, they were still products of this. Cromwell is despised by much of the gentry because he has risen above his station in life and they don't feel he can ever be their equal.  Same thing with the Cardinal that Cromwell served.  He came from humble beginnings and, when he got powerful, those who were born to their titles and station resented his success.  More, while he admired Cromwell's intellect and drive, was also a snob who still couldn't see Cromwell as an equal.  The fact that Cromwell remembered their childhood encounters so well while More didn't remember them at all drives that home.

 

In the future, we will see how Cromwell's desire to prove himself the equal of the landed gentry and get revenge on those who mocked and snubbed him and the Cardinal plays out. It's a major theme of the book and of Cromwell's life.  He believed a man could rise above a humble birth using intellect and hard work at a time when that was not the majority opinion.  Cromwell, seriously flawed though he was, was truly a self-made man in times where that was nearly impossible to achieve.

 

 

suppose it could be argued that Wolf Hall was where the pivotal moment happened: Henry VIII gets his crush on Jane Seymour.

When I read the book, I wondered the same thing, since the visit to Wolf Hall which ended the last episode is also the end of that book. It does turn out to be pivotal in Cromwell's career, but it didn't really have much to do with the story to that point.  For that matter, 'Bring Up the Bodies' happens relatively early in the second book (I'm not spoilering that since anyone who knows anything about the Tudors knows that there are plenty of bodies to come).

 

loved the way Cromwell's eminently practical mind is already eying up possible successors to Anne. The Queen has become a problem, and he (Cromwell) sees a path where Anne might become a problem for the King, so TC is preparing alternatives, and has picked Jane out of the chorus line.

In the book, anyway, he first sees Jane as a potential marriage for his son, Gregory.  She comes from a noble family that has been disgraced (her father had a longstanding affair with her brother's wife) and he figures they might be willing to accept a lesser status husband for her. Always looking to raise himself and his family higher.  His thinking evolves as he sees events unfold in the king's marriage to Anne and uses his previous fact finding on Jane and the Seymour to his advantage.

Edited April 29, 2015 by doodlebug

[kieyra]

 

When I read the book, I wondered the same thing, since the visit to Wolf Hall which ended the last episode is also the end of that book. It does turn out to be pivotal in Cromwell's career, but it didn't really have much to do with the story to that point.  For that matter, 'Bring Up the Bodies' happens relatively early in the second book (I'm not spoilering that since anyone who knows anything about the Tudors knows that there are plenty of bodies to come).

 

 

I guess we also have to wonder if the whole thing was organically written as two volumes, or if they just couldn't think of a better split point. 

 

A lot of both books (Wolf Hall perhaps moreso) read as though they are a collection of loosely-connected short stories. 

[Milburn Stone]

I actually liked the Thomas More bits. They were excellently acted.

 

I know it's a stupid comparison, but during the magnificently written (as well as acted) More/Cromwell scenes, my mind flashed on the difference between this and Downton Abbey. In Wolf Hall, ideas and passions get to clash, get to play themselves out against each other before our eyes and before our minds. Contrast to Downton Abbey, in which every time a potential difference comes up between two characters, the show cuts away to a different plot line, lather/rinse/repeat--presumably because the writer is too lazy himself to figure out what these characters in opposition would say to each other.

 

Another association: Being Jewish, I dwelled on the similarity between Thomas More and the Jews who lived under the Spanish Inquisition. The Jews had three options: 1) truly convert; 2) pretend to convert but continue to practice Judaism covertly; or 3) openly defy the attempt to convert them, and face torture followed by death. The Jews who chose option 3 didn't do so out of "stubbornness"; they did so because their faith and culture were so real to them that any other option was unthinkable. They did so, to shorthand it, because God is God. (Go figure; when they said they believed in God, they actually believed in God.) Even though the show has Thomas Cromwell as its protagonist, I felt it gave satisfyingly adequate weight to Thomas More's point of view. And that's what great drama is about.