iHave iQuestions: How Do Things Work in This Universe?

[fastiller]

I wondered previously about whether Liv felt physically cold to Major when he hugged her at their classmate's funeral.  Would he notice that she's not 98.6°?

 

Yesterday I started wondering this: if a person was turned three weeks ago, and the now-zombie was seen walking around at 9pm on a given evening, and was killed (like, really killed this time), and an ME (not Ravi/Liv, 'cause they're savvy to these things) did the autopsy, what would the time of death be noted as?  Would the ME see that the body was actually three-weeks post-mortem and wonder about the inconsistency of having a three-week post-mortem body who was clearly seen walking around at 9pm that evening?  I think I'm framing this question poorly.

 

If anyone can think of a better thread title, feel free to change it.

[riley702]

Interesting. I've heard this sort of thing speculated about vampire characters, too. What I find myself wondering about is why Liv eats regular food, too. It does seem to sate her physical hunger. Does she still have digestion going on, other than the need for brains regularly? I'd have to think she isn't cold to the touch, because she's touched a lot of humans who don't seem to notice anything amiss.

[Sakura12]

She probably eats regular food to look normal. She lives with her best friend who would notice that Liv's not eating. I don't think regular food does anything for her. Blaine or she said that everything tastes like iodine or something, that's why they add so much hot sauce, just to taste anything at all. 

 

She also seems to still use the bathroom, since Ravi keeps asking for urine samples. That's probably not something the show really wants to focus on though. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

As I understand it, regular brain meals put off the full zombification, so no decay, and apparently normal life signs as long as the person keeps it up. Fall behind on brain intake, and you become the classic "dead person walking" type of zombie.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Just to put this out there, the original comic had a complex metaphysical system based on the Egyptian system of two distinct souls, that encompassed zombies and vampires (and other things) and why they are different. 

 

The show is definitely not going that route; and wisely so since some things don't work on TV (and especially not on the CW). And I doubt the show will introduce vampires. But if you are interested in comparing rules for the undead across different media, then it might be a fun thing to check out. It's introduced fairly early in the run (#4), so you don't have to wade through a lot of the comic to get to that part, and it's included in the first trade paperback.

 

Again, not at all helpful in understanding the rules on the show; just for funsies if you like that sort of thing. (And the comic is a legitimately good comic in its own right).

[Athena5217]

If a zombie eat bites a person, does the person turn into a zombie or a were rat or is it just like a regular rat bite?

If a zombie eat bites a person, does the person turn into a zombie or a wererat or is it just like a regular rat bite?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Athena5217

[Saje]

We know they have the person's knowledge and abilities for a while after they eat the brain, but how long is it for? The more obvious stuff fades, but do they retain the knowledge even after the emotions are gone?

 

Will Liv always know Karate now? How to paint? Or does it disappear with digestion, like the emotions? I guess what I'm asking is, does the information disappear with the emotions, or does it stay with them forever?

[Latverian Diplomat]

We know they have the person's knowledge and abilities for a while after they eat the brain, but how long is it for? The more obvious stuff fades, but do they retain the knowledge even after the emotions are gone?

 

It doesn't seem so. I doubt we'll be hearing Lowell do science talk again, for example.

 

Mostly, what Liv retains seems to be "life lessons learned" in the ending voice over, which honestly is something I could do without.

 

I would like to see more subtle takeaways, like maybe a taste for jazz now that she gave it a chance, or slightly better drawing ability because she remembers a few things from when she was drawing well. The bran-of-the-week traits seem very tied to the episodic part of the show though, so I don't have my hopes up.

 

On a different note, the fact that Liv's bullet wound didn't bleed says she has very low blood pressure. 

[Sakura12]

Ravi determined in the first ep that her heart beats 10 beats per minute which is why drawing blood was an issue. 

 

I think the skills and the personality go away when the brain dissolves, that doesn't mean she can't enjoy that skill or taste in music now. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by Sakura12

[bilgistic]

How is Lieutenant Zombie (or whatever his rank is) maintaining his salt-and-pepper hair colors? COLORSSS! That would require all the foils! Or the old-fashioned pull-your-hair-through cap (that apparently my mom still gets at the salon).

[editorgrrl]

From the "Maternity Liv" episode thread:

I was spoiled about Lowell eating a gay man's brain, but still loved it. However, will it always be the same way if you eat a brain which doesn't align with your gender preference? If so, yikes. Poor zombies.

 

When Liv ate the artist's brain she became more sensual. (Or is it sensuous? I can never remember.) But she hasn't been sexually attracted to women every time she eats a heterosexual male brain.

[FurryFury]

Yes, it does seem that you don't get ALL of the dead person's abilities/preferences if you eat their brain, only one or two. I wonder how is it chosen, and if the show will ever delve deeper into this stuff.

[Cranberry]

I was wondering about that myself. It's difficult to figure out, because on one hand, you could argue that Liv "absorbed" the artist's passion for beauty, but not his sexuality, and so she was flirting with anyone she personally found attractive. Do we know if the artist was interested in men, or just women? On the other hand, you could argue that Liv absorbed his passion and his interest in women, and then she combined that with her own interest in men and ended up flirting with both genders. We know that sexuality can be absorbed, because Lowell is not normally gay, but editorgrrl is correct in pointing out that Liv is still interested in men when she eats a heterosexual male brain. It's interesting stuff and I also hope they explore this a little (not even just in the context of sexuality, but in how many traits are absorbed/how they're chosen/if any aspects of them remain once the zombie eats someone else's brain).

[Sakura12]

Maybe it depends on what part of the brain they eat? 

[Saje]

Sakura, good point. I'd like to see them make a comment about that. 

 

"Oh wow, I just ate that guy's dorsomedial prefrontal cortex! C'mere, YOU!"

 

Would a zombie just start crying or laughing uncontrollably after munching the frontal lobe?

 

This could be great, actually! 

[RachelKM]

But what character traits has Blaine shown?  Or Lowell, other than the one time?

I kinda like the idea that because Liv was sort of drifting through her life and not really exhibiting any strong traits of her own, she sort of gets taken over a bit more. Whereas, Blaine has a very strong personality and probably not prone to giving in to the personality traits.  Plus, he knows who the dead people are and could purposely choose people that give him skills he wants and have some inkling of what personality traits are coming to mitigate them. And even with Liv, a couple of times its been more skills than behavior.

 

And we haven't see a whole lot of Lowell (and now we won't, sob).  But we have seen at least two instances in which he was affected.  Obviously the temporary gay was one and when he ate the doctor/scientist brain before Ravi conducted his tests and was able to discuss the biological process Ravi was investigating (which establishes he was definitely eating more than just homeless teen skater brain).

Edited May 13, 2015 by RachelKM

[FurryFury]

While we were watching the latest episde, my husband has brought up a question (I don't notice these things usually) - why don't Liv and Ravi wear uniforms while investigating dead bodies on crime scenes? I've no idea what are the usual rules for this, but on other shows, forensics experts usually do wear them (which makes sense, considering they are working with dead bodies). And we do see some other people in jackets with "FORENSICS" written on them. Why are Liv and Ravi different?

[Altered Reality]

While we were watching the latest episde, my husband has brought up a question (I don't notice these things usually) - why don't Liv and Ravi wear uniforms while investigating dead bodies on crime scenes? I've no idea what are the usual rules for this, but on other shows, forensics experts usually do wear them (which makes sense, considering they are working with dead bodies). And we do see some other people in jackets with "FORENSICS" written on them. Why are Liv and Ravi different?

It's probably a jurisdictional thing.  Liv and Ravi work for the Medical Examiner's office (Ravi is the Chief Medical Examiner?)  I think on other shows the forensic experts work directly for the police in the forensics lab. 

 

I don't know about all jurisdictions, but where I live the Medical Examiner is it's own division within the Justice department and not directly part of the police. 

[FurryFury]

I think he used Bones as an example, Brennan also doesn't work for the police (or didn't when I saw her last).

[editorgrrl]

Why don't Liv and Ravi wear uniforms while investigating dead bodies on crime scenes? I've no idea what are the usual rules for this, but on other shows, forensics experts usually do wear them (which makes sense, considering they are working with dead bodies). And we do see some other people in jackets with "FORENSICS" written on them. Why are Liv and Ravi different?

 

I handwave it by thinking the forensics team has already collected any evidence, so there's nothing left for Liv, Ravi, or Clive to contaminate.

[Altered Reality]

I handwave it by thinking the forensics team has already collected any evidence, so there's nothing left for Liv, Ravi, or Clive to contaminate.

This makes sense.  It would also account for the time Liv and Ravi seem to spend just hanging around at the crime scene waiting.  They're waiting for the forensic team to finish doing their thing before they go in and stomp around :D

[CletusMusashi]

How does their already-grown hair turn white? Hair is dead tissue. New post-zombie hair growing in white? No problem. Deciding to cut off the old darker parts because it doesn't match? Also fine. But that old pre-zombe stuff should stay whatever color it originally was unless dyed.

[Altered Reality]

I think he used Bones as an example, Brennan also doesn't work for the police (or didn't when I saw her last).

Well, I'm not that familiar with Bones, but doesn't she work for the Smithsonian?  It wouldn't have any jurisdiction of it's own.  Her involvement is through the FBI, so maybe that's where the uniform is from?  Helps to clarify her purpose/authority at a crime scene?   

 

Or maybe I'm just waaaaayyy over thinking this whole thing.

[Julia]

Well, I'm not that familiar with Bones, but doesn't she work for the Smithsonian?  It wouldn't have any jurisdiction of it's own.  Her involvement is through the FBI, so maybe that's where the uniform is from?  Helps to clarify her purpose/authority at a crime scene? 

 

Temperance Brennan and her team work for the Jeffersonian (which is the Smithsonian with the serial numbers filed off) as consultants to the FBI. They have jumpsuits they wear to crime scenes for more or less the reason the guy who changes the lube on your car has a jumpsuit. 

 

The thing is, though, Bones isn't an ideal example. They made it clear early on that the locals or the FBI techs would ordinarily almost always be doing the evidence gathering, but she doesn't trust them to do it right so she bigfoots them. Part of Booth's job is to be the guy the locals don't want to try to get past if they get territorial.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Julia

[shapeshifter]

From the recap to the last episode, "Patriot Brains":

http://previously.tv/izombie/nevermind/

...This time, Dupont stays down. That little red eye is a nice touch, very Terminator.

I thought red eyes meant the zombie is about to turn into an angry killer robot, but Dupont just fled the scene. Any zombie experts care to explain?

[fastiller]

Temperance Brennan and her team work for the Jeffersonian (which is the Smithsonian with the serial numbers filed off) as consultants to the FBI.

 

I don't watch Bones, but this description made me laugh.

[editorgrrl]

I thought red eyes meant the zombie is about to turn into an angry killer robot, but Dupont just fled the scene. Any zombie experts care to explain?

Not an expert, but I just assume TPTB think it looks cool.

[Julia]

I took it as something that happened when they were about to use zombie strength, like getting up with three bullets in the chest or swimming for shore after being pureed by rotor blades. Sort of the zombie version of an adrenaline rush.

[theatremouse]

She probably eats regular food to look normal. She lives with her best friend who would notice that Liv's not eating. I don't think regular food does anything for her. Blaine or she said that everything tastes like iodine or something, that's why they add so much hot sauce, just to taste anything at all.

I think that last bit is also why she eats anything other than brains, not just to look normal but I think she misses food, misses tasting, hence the hot sauce. Also she said something earlier about hunger in general. I mean, I'm sure part of it is specifically a hunger for brains, but she seems to be intentionally trying to only eat as much brain as she needs to in order to stay functional. So if you're feeling constant hunger, but know you can't eat the thing you're hungry for all the time, eat something else and hope it helps.

Also texture? It's convenient that there exist super-hot Cheetos to fit with the whole "must be super spicy to taste anything" bit, but I also imagine if you spend a lot of time eating brains, the texture of Cheetos would be a relief. So in that way it makes sense to me we regularly see her eating those.

[shapeshifter]

I know they are all infected and if they die, they turn. But it takes more than just getting blood and guts on your face to turn in TWD. On here all it takes is a scratch and you're a zombie. Which makes it a lot easier to turn people. I do hope they have something planned to explain it....

iZombie is my first extensive look at zombies, so I'm a total noob. I watched a few episodes of TWD but not enough to figure it out, so, thanks for the explanation that "they are all infected and if they die, they turn," which I think could still partially apply here. Both Liv and the guy in the last episode were dead when they turned, right? So maybe, unlike on TWD, not everyone is infected yet, but they still do need to be both infected and dead to turn.

Based also on what we saw of the guy turning in the last episode, I'm guessing exchanging blood is how it's spread. Maybe Blaine scratched Liv while having some of his own blood on his fingers?

Editing because:

Since they mentioned the 1/1000 goes all violent outburst thing and the connection between the boat party I've been under the impression it's specifically the combination of the utopium and the energy drink, or possibly that whatever ingredient in Max Rager causes the psychotic episodes is the same thing that the drugs were cut with. So it sort of amounts to the same thing. It could be the Max Rager and the drugs were at some point contaminated with the same thing, but I'm so far guessing it's moreso "secret ingredient that is normally in the drink but only causes very-bad symptoms 1/1000 of the time" when combined with the drug=zombification.

So now I'm thinking the ingredients for iZombie zombies are: blood + death + something in Max Rager + utopium?

BTW, is utopium the show's drug version of handwavium?

And I'm guessing the secret ingredient is synthetically genetically engineered--just a "gut" feeling based on watching too much TV.

Edited May 26, 2015 by shapeshifter

[theatremouse]

So now I'm thinking the ingredients for iZombie zombies are: blood + death + something in Max Rager + utopium?

BTW, is utopium the show's drug version of handwavium?

And I'm guessing the secret ingredient is synthetically genetically engineered--just a "gut" feeling based on watching too much TV.

I don't think this show's universe requires death. I think it just requires scratch or some other blood or bodily fluid contact to contract it from another infectee. I think Blaine turned Jackie just by having sex with her, possibly plus or minus a scratch in the process. I don't think any of them died. (Plus no one ever killed or even injured the rat zombie. Just gave it the right cocktail of tainted utopium.) I think the zombie symptoms just made them seem dead. Heart rate so slow/slight no one noticed it. And it seems to have come with mega metabolism and healing, somehow, even though the healing seems to be at odds with the other deadness. But Liv and the captain? Lieutenant? What is he? Both got shot with little repercussion and no festering wounds, so I'm going with mega healing until proven otherwise. And it somehow drains all pigment, including already grown out hair. No idea how or why. Maybe related to the ultra metabolism? Like the zombificated bodies somehow use it up or absorb it or something? I don't know why they would but that's m'theory.

Plus we've got Ravi in CDC mode repeatedly emphasizing she's not dead and telling her not to call herself dead and treating it like some sort of virus or gene-therapy gone wrong. So I think the ingredients for iZombie zombies, at least on the TV show, are utopium (which I think is the show's version of "something that makes you think of ecstasy but isn't ecstasy") plus whatever is in Max Rager.

Edited May 26, 2015 by theatremouse

[aradia22]

My sense of things is that no one "died" even though they're zombies. And from what we know, all our zombies are fairly intact (compared to the zombie makeups you might see with open wounds). I don't think they're cold to the touch or corpse-like and I'd assume all their internal systems (digestive, pulmonary, etc.) are in working order.

 

 

We know they have the person's knowledge and abilities for a while after they eat the brain, but how long is it for? The more obvious stuff fades, but do they retain the knowledge even after the emotions are gone?

Will Liv always know Karate now? How to paint? Or does it disappear with digestion, like the emotions? I guess what I'm asking is, does the information disappear with the emotions, or does it stay with them forever?

My guess is the writers will play a little fast and loose with these abilities. 

[marketdoctor]

 

BTW, is utopium the show's drug version of handwavium?

It's equal parts caffeine and handwavium, though make sure to have a trained fictional chemist on standby if you're trying to make your own, so it doesn't get tainted.  They're treating zombie-ism more like a virus--where tainted utopium can make you very likely to get it (like smoking five packs a day and lung cancer) but you can get it in other ways (some non-smokers still get lung cancer.)  I like how Liv sees herself as dead, because of the zombie symptoms, but Ravi doesn't, because she does things living things do (move, eat, etc.) and that living humans do (have conversations, use cutlery, etc.)

 

Will Liv always know Karate now? How to paint? Or does it disappear with digestion, like the emotions?

 

 

The way they seem to be doing it, it fades with the emotions, or else we'd have ultra-competent Liz (limitless zombie?) by now.  That would also make Blaine an increasingly formidable opponent; that brains have to be fresh keeps him from keeping a stock of brains with various abilities in a freezer somewhere.  (Or maybe they'll come back to that idea.)

[editorgrrl]

It would be so much bitter, bitter irony if Major got himself zombified due to his [utopium] addiction leading him to a tainted batch at some point.

Aren't Major and Blaine immune to zombieism? Otherwise, why hasn't Blaine asked one of his minions to reinfect him?

[Crim]

^ Blaine seemed to enjoy being human. Or maybe he just taunted Liz with it. It would make sense that they are immune though. I just don't remember if they ever mentioned it on the show.

[Julia]

See, here is what confuses me about this plotline. Blaine's undead minions can already make zombies, and zombifying street junkies is just going to make an army of zombies who can't afford to pay you and don't know how to keep out of sight. The only advantage to finding the zombification utopium is that it can be used to make a cure, which is exactly what Blaine doesn't want, since it destroys his business model in pretty much every possible way. Not to mention that all the leverage he has over the very rich people he's been feeding off of like a tick would be gone, and I suspect that not all of them are really about the bygones.

 

So why would he be zombifying christian junkie guy? He should have just killed him.

[Crim]

Well, we know that Blaine became interested in the cure when he was told that the cure he got could be temporary or could have side effects. As to his business model, he could intend to sell the cure to those that want it, brains to those that don't (I can imagine scenarios where one would prefer being a zombie, like chronic and/or life-threatening diseases). It's not like Ravi intends to go public with it, so newly made zombies wouldn't have a source. Or it could be just that Blaine is sitting on enough money to care more about staying human and enjoying it.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Crim

[possibilities]

Besides using it as insurance in case his own cure has side effects, maybe Blaine wants to control the cure so he can sell it to Zombies in a revolving door fashion-- zombify them, extort them for brain money til they go bankrupt, then get one last payment when he cures them. Or maybe he just likes the power implied from being in control of any and all vital resources. He certainly doesn't want Ravi to cure everyone, thus putting Blaine's Brains out of business. If Blaine can control Utopium, and whatever the "tainted formula" is, and dispose of or control the one dealer who knew how to make it, at least Ravi and Liv won't get their hands on it.

[dcalley]

I'm not really clear that Liv can't control the influence of the brains. None of the other zombies seem to be quite as affected as she is. I don't really get from her that she's really putting maximum effort into it.

 

 

We rarely see that much of other zombies, so it's hard to tell how affected they are, though Lowell was.

 

Blaine had a work for food arrangement with Suzuki.  At least, that's how I interpreted it.  And Suzuki killed himself.

Maybe the freshness of the brains Liv eats makes her more susceptible.

[The Cake is a Pie]

So Ravi has determined that zombiism can be sexually transmitted even through condoms, but we know Suzuki and at least one of Major's zombie targets were married, to presumably human women. So...is infection hit or miss? Did they just happen to abstain for however long they were zombies? Are the wives zombies, too?