Juliette Silverton: She's A Vet By Trade

[caseylane]

That's it. I didn't start disliking Juliette until she was given more to do and I found out the actress wasn't up to the challenge. Now I just want her gone. Of all of the bad story lines floating around this season, hers is the absolute worst.

[anamika]

My biggest question at this point continues to be: Why is Juliette still on this show? The writing for her has been constantly abysmal and at some point she and Nick should have done the sensible thing and broken up. Having her around has been a pain in his ass since season one. She has basically proved Aunt Marie’s advice true ten times over.  Is that the point of this character in the series?

 

Maybe I could overlook it if the writing and the acting showed that she really loved him, but it never comes across that way to me. She seems comfortable with him while he seems to truly love her. She turned down his marriage proposal in season one and shrugged it away in season 3. Her melodrama and habit of blaming him when things go south and his guilt complex when it comes to her makes it a very unhealthy relationship.

 

Her drama just makes his life harder and his Grimm stuff makes her life genuinely suck. The writing makes it seem like he genuinely loves her while she does not, at least not as much as he does her. So it makes sense to me that he would find it selfishly harder to let her go despite his aunt’s advice. But if she is supposed to be this sensible and rational person, I have no idea why she just does not break up with him.

 

Rosalee and Monroe seem to truly love each other and are able to work through their problems and any differences they have. Rosalee is an enjoyable character in her own right and supports her husband and the rest of the gang and the actress does a good job to boot. Plus she gets family back story and a wedding.  She’s everything that Juliette should have been and has failed to be.

 

They are constantly trying to make Juliette work and it’s just not happening for me. From being an ace shooter, to punching out wesen with her stick like arms, to being the all knowledgeable scientist who knows everything there is to know about SCIENCE. Every episode, other characters are given lines of dialogue telling us how awesome she is or how put upon she is. I still remember in season one when she googled something for Nick and Nick was like ‘OMG! You are so AWESOME!’ and I was like WTF?!  I have never seen a worse written character on television. And the fact that they still keep doing this, going into season 4 with this awful Hexen-vet storyline just amazes me.

 

She’s a one dimensional character who is now one-dimensionally bad-ass. It would be unfair to compare her to characters like Karen Page on Daredevil, who is a strong female character despite not going around using gendered insults like ‘bitch’ and not having fight scenes. Karen Page can fall apart and cry and be emotional because she’s human and relatable and that makes her more of a strong female character than Juliette will ever be despite all her antics.  In my book, a strong female character is a well written one and Juliette is anything but that.

 

Season one continues to remain the best season of Grimm for me and one of the reasons for that is minimal Juliette.

Edited May 5, 2015 by anamika

[Free]

My biggest question at this point continues to be: Why is Juliette still on this show? The writing for her has been constantly abysmal and at some point she and Nick should have done the sensible thing and broken up. Having her around has been a pain in his ass since season one. She has basically proved Aunt Marie’s advice true ten times over.  Is that the point of this character in the series?

 

Maybe I could overlook it if the writing and the acting showed that she really loved him, but it never comes across that way to me. She seems comfortable with him while he seems to truly love her. She turned down his marriage proposal in season one and shrugged it away in season 3. Her melodrama and habit of blaming him when things go south and his guilt complex when it comes to her makes it a very unhealthy relationship.

 

Her drama just makes his life harder and his Grimm stuff makes her life genuinely suck. The writing makes it seem like he genuinely loves her while she does not, at least not as much as he does her. So it makes sense to me that he would find it selfishly harder to let her go despite his aunt’s advice. But if she is supposed to be this sensible and rational person, I have no idea why she just does not break up with him.

 

Rosalee and Monroe seem to truly love each other and are able to work through their problems and any differences they have. Rosalee is an enjoyable character in her own right and supports her husband and the rest of the gang and the actress does a good job to boot. Plus she gets family back story and a wedding.  She’s everything that Juliette should have been and has failed to be.

 

They are constantly trying to make Juliette work and it’s just not happening for me. From being an ace shooter, to punching out wesen with her stick like arms, to being the all knowledgeable scientist who knows everything there is to know about SCIENCE. Every episode, other characters are given lines of dialogue telling us how awesome she is or how put upon she is. I still remember in season one when she googled something for Nick and Nick was like ‘OMG! You are so AWESOME!’ and I was like WTF?!  I have never seen a worse written character on television. And the fact that they still keep doing this, going into season 4 with this awful Hexen-vet storyline just amazes me.

 

She’s a one dimensional character who is now one-dimensionally bad-ass. It would be unfair to compare her to characters like Karen Page on Daredevil, who is a strong female character despite not going around using gendered insults like ‘bitch’ and not having fight scenes. Karen Page can fall apart and cry and be emotional because she’s human and relatable and that makes her more of a strong female character than Juliette will ever be despite all her antics.  In my book, a strong female character is a well written one and Juliette is anything but that.

 

Season one continues to remain the best season of Grimm for me and one of the reasons for that is minimal Juliette.

 

Exactly and Juliette's character pales in comparison to the other characters you mentioned in your example.

[merylinkid]

I am not buying the "Juliette is ovecome by her hexie powers and can't help herself" excuse.    Everything she has done has been a deliberate act that takes conscious thought.    She saw Nick with Adalind and chose to drive to the Grimmebago and set it on fire.   She chose to go to Kenneth and talk to him and work out an elaborate trap plan to get Diana to Portland and get Kelly killed.    That all takes efforts, thought and time.    

 

Now compare Renard.   He has blackouts.    He has no idea what he is doing and all of sudden at the end someone is dead.    

 

If Juliette had lost it and caused Adalind and Nick's heads to explode in the police station, okay "possessed" "can't help herself."   But she didn't.   She left and took action that took time.    Unless you want to believe she just happened to have cans of gas and matches in her car at that precise moment.   But even then she had to think where would she use them?   And the plan with Kenneth, explaining about who the neighbors were, etc.?   That takes calm, deliberate thought.   Again, fi she had just grabbed a gun and gone in shooting okay?   

 

Also if she really couldn't help it, heads and cars would be exploding all over Portland.   The car in front ofyou at the light doesn't go fast enough?   Boom.   The car cuts you off?   Boom.    Someone's little rugrat shoves their cart (that is too big for them to be pushing anyway) into you at the grocery store?   BOOOM.    

 

Heavens, she showed up at the Spice Shop pissed off.   But she sure had time to talk to everyone and tell them they sucked rather than just exploding their heads.   Why?   Would have ruined the plan with Kenny boy.   

 

But we are supposed to believe that Juliette is a possessed by a powerful force that allows her to act calmly and deliberately in situations?   When we have never seen other Hexenbeists be out of control?   The made, not born excuse doesn't really work.    She knows full what she is doing and enjoys it.   She likes having power is going to use to her advantage.  

 

Her advantage might be getting revenge on those she feels harms her.    But hey, Adalind is doing the same thing and no one says she is possessed and can't help herself.     Juliette may not be rational in her quest for revenge but she is quite in control of it.

[Prevailing Wind]

The title of this topic needs to be changed: Juliette Silverton: She needs to die. Now.

[ottilie]

I sort of like the 'cold' Juliette character. Grimm is in the fantasy genre (of which the only other show I can really watch is Gotham). Most other sci-fi and fantasy has much more one-dimensional characters and Grimm writers actually flxed the rules in many ways by doing things like letting Hank and Wu learn about Wesen, or letting different types of wesen have their own personalities (such as letting Monroe and Rosalee be reformed rather than stuck in their wesen type).

  Anyway, the story still requires villains, and Kenneth and current Juliette do this pretty well. Nobody watches a show about friends going on picnics.

 

They are laying traces in the story that she will turn on Prince Kenneth within one episode, or at least at the start of the next season.

 

My suggested story for getting them back together is that Juliette sees prince Kenneth or one of his minions kicks a dog or cat, and this act distresses her and reminds her of her earlier life.  She realizes that she could find ways to use her powers to help sick animals and goes back to her veterinary clinic. She fights back against the royals, saves Diana, and apologizes to Monroe for shooting at him

Edited May 9, 2015 by ottilie

[Shadda2]

Even if Juliette did save Diana, and Diana's life is not really in danger, that would not be enough to offset the complicity in the murder of Nick's mother.  There are not enough hurt dogs and cats in the world to make that okay.  I want Adalind to get her child back herself.  Perhaps with the help of the Grimms and their friends. 

[johntfs]

I'm remembering Season 2 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer where Angel(us) snapped Jenny Calender's neck, put her in Giles' bed and scattered rose petals from the bed to the door so Giles would come in, think he was up for a night of passion and then find Jenny's corpse on his bed.  Angel came back for the third season and then got his show.  Maybe Juliette will come back for Season 5 and spin off to get her own show, Hexenbiest, set in Seattle or something.  Her main enemy could be a law firm, Dewey, Cheatum and Howe, that represents evil corporations who do sadistic product testing on animals.

 

From what we've seen, this anti-social behavior seems like a phase that hexenbiests go through when their powers fully manifest, which means that it's relatively temporary and that Juliette's flickers of conscience mean that it might well be passing.  Maybe if Nick and company had tried to find a middle ground between "Let Juliette run wild" and "Juliette is an abomination that must be cured" we wouldn't be here.

Edited May 9, 2015 by johntfs

[evilmindatwork]

From what we've seen, this anti-social behavior seems like a phase that hexenbiests go through when their powers fully manifest, which means that it's relatively temporary and that Juliette's flickers of conscience mean that it might well be passing.  Maybe if Nick and company had tried to find a middle ground between "Let Juliette run wild" and "Juliette is an abomination that must be cured" we wouldn't be here.

Agreed. I was really confused by this plotline because I never received the memo about hexenbiests being inherently evil. I don't think that the writers telegraphed that to me at all. I just thought she would be Juliette with hexen powers (and growing pains)... 

[Shadda2]

 

From what we've seen, this anti-social behavior seems like a phase that hexenbiests go through when their powers fully manifest, which means that it's relatively temporary and that Juliette's flickers of conscience mean that it might well be passing.  Maybe if Nick and company had tried to find a middle ground between "Let Juliette run wild" and "Juliette is an abomination that must be cured" we wouldn't be here.

 

But we don't know that hexenbiests go through "phases" like what Juliette is going through.  In fact we have never seen anything that would make us think that is the case.  Also, I simply cannot blame Nick and Company for what is happening to her.  Or perhaps I should say, how she is reacting to her new powers.  She actively tried to find a cure.  Why would they not think that was what she wanted?  I also do not think that hexenbiests are inherently evil.  I view them a little more gray in the morality area, but not evil.  Just like not all blutbads are bad, not all hexenbiests are bad.  Especially since they are women and I have a knee jerk reaction to assuming that this particular brand of Wesen are all immediately evil.

[DeeDee79]

But we don't know that hexenbiests go through "phases" like what Juliette is going through.  In fact we have never seen anything that would make us think that is the case.  Also, I simply cannot blame Nick and Company for what is happening to her.  Or perhaps I should say, how she is reacting to her new powers.  She actively tried to find a cure.  Why would they not think that was what she wanted?  I also do not think that hexenbiests are inherently evil.  I view them a little more gray in the morality area, but not evil.  Just like not all blutbads are bad, not all hexenbiests are bad.  Especially since they are women and I have a knee jerk reaction to assuming that this particular brand of Wesen are all immediately evil.

 

I agree with this. I don't recall any episodes stating that Hexienbiests go through "phases" and Nick didn't let her "run wild". He let her stay locked up because she was purposely causing harm to people. Then they looked for a cure because she blamed them for making her the way she is & she also told Nick that she was in hell. Why wouldn't they think she wanted to be cured? I think she just came to enjoy being more powerful than everyone else around her.

[spaulding]

I agree with this. I don't recall any episodes stating that Hexienbiests go through "phases" and Nick didn't let her "run wild". He let her stay locked up because she was purposely causing harm to people. Then they looked for a cure because she blamed them for making her the way she is & she also told Nick that she was in hell. Why wouldn't they think she wanted to be cured? I think she just came to enjoy being more powerful than everyone else around her.

 

Such bad writing.  The writers shouldn't have to burden the audience with filling in the blanks.  If Special Snowflake Juliette was going through some adolescent period that was par the course of Hexenbiests, they should have said it.  There's no reason why the audience had to guess and to bridge the gap to make sense of the writing.

 

The writers have rarely shown how wesen truly live, e.g., The Bottle Imp.  They're just the bad guys on this show. 

 

It also doesn't explain away why Adalind didn't go through a similar period when she got her powers back.  Arguably, she's a "new" hexenbiest.  Arguably, she would have to go through another adolescent period.

 

This "Juliette is an adolescent" meme continues to cast Juliette as some idiotic victim who isn't at fault for her actions.  Nothing will explain away how she burned the Grimmibago and how she set up Kelly to die a horrific death.  Nothing.  (I still can't believe this show was doing some Juliette porno while Mama Grimm fighting to survive was heard in the background.)

[DeeDee79]

It also doesn't explain away why Adalind didn't go through a similar period when she got her powers back.  Arguably, she's a "new" hexenbiest.  Arguably, she would have to go through another adolescent period.

 

This brings to mind something I've been wondering about Juliette. Rosalee stated that "made" Hexienbiests were more deadly than ones that were born that way. Since Adalind was a Hexenbiest that lost her powers & regained them wouldn't that make her a "made" Hexen as well? If so, shouldn't they be equal in terms of powers?

[johntfs]

But we don't know that hexenbiests go through "phases" like what Juliette is going through.  In fact we have never seen anything that would make us think that is the case.  Also, I simply cannot blame Nick and Company for what is happening to her.  Or perhaps I should say, how she is reacting to her new powers.  She actively tried to find a cure.  Why would they not think that was what she wanted?  I also do not think that hexenbiests are inherently evil.  I view them a little more gray in the morality area, but not evil.  Just like not all blutbads are bad, not all hexenbiests are bad.  Especially since they are women and I have a knee jerk reaction to assuming that this particular brand of Wesen are all immediately evil.

 

I'm talking about when Adalind first broached the idea of the suppression potion.  She mentions her own fighting in bars and mentioned that her own mother considered taking the potion in question.

[Free]

This "Juliette is an adolescent" meme continues to cast Juliette as some idiotic victim who isn't at fault for her actions.  Nothing will explain away how she burned the Grimmibago and how she set up Kelly to die a horrific death.  Nothing.  (I still can't believe this show was doing some Juliette porno while Mama Grimm fighting to survive was heard in the background.)

 

That's what makes this whole thing annoying, and then to try and pin the blame on Nick and the gang for the unforseen side effects that she herself willingly chose to do and if anything, she caused way more damaged than what was actually done to her at this point, so yeah, i'm sick and tired of the poor Juliette victim nonsense

[Prevailing Wind]

Sweet Tooth, you have crystallized my thoughts eloquently. Thank you.

[Free]

 

So, I hope I've listed more compelling reasons than "She's Nick's girlfriend."

 

Which is never a good reason for any character.

[anamika]

http://www.dreadcentral.com/news/94080/grimms-bitsie-tulloch-talks-going-dark-the-royals-return-game-changing-season-finale-and-lots-more/

http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2015/03/grimms-bitsie-tulloch-warns-that-juliette-is-going-to-the-dark-side/

 

This is what Bitsie has had to say in interviews regarding Juliette's turn as a Hexenbeist:

 

 

And the reality is, too, that there’s probably a little bit of resentment because they did this to her, you know. They asked her to do this for them because Rosalee and Monroe were coming under so much fire. And in order to protect them, Nick needed to get his Grimm powers back. I mean, the only way to do that was to use Juliette as a vessel. And she agreed to do it. But she would never have done that if she had known this would be the side effect.

 

 it’s always nice to have a very powerful female character, whether for good or evil… to just have someone who is very much in control. Who is not relying on anybody else for anything. That’s one of the differences between Adalind and Juliette. Adalind was really reliant on the Royals and was sleeping around and stuff. The Hexenbiest are, you know, very sort of sexy witches. Juliette is kind of… it’s just everything that goes forward is going to be on her terms. So even if it’s evil, she’s doing it on her terms. And she’s in control of the situation; she’s doing what she wants to do when she wants to do it.

 

 

Oh yes!  I’m very active on social media, on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook. And I try to reply whenever I can. I see a lot people saying, “I love how strong she is. I love how smart she is.” They’re really liking the Hexenbiest stuff because they’re like, “What a badass!” [They] like seeing a woman walk into a scene and just kick butt and be more powerful… the manticore scene, that was something that Nick didn’t even think he was going to be able to deal with. And Juliette just kind of instantly took control of the situation and killed him.

 

 

Well, I like the Wesen I am right now, that’s for sure. It’s fun getting to walk into these scenes and basically just kick ass. And she has power over everyone. She’s just stronger and faster, and she could have easily killed Adalind if she wanted to. I don’t know that she was mentally prepared to do that yet. But so that’s been really fun.

       

  Like I mentioned earlier, it all boils down to flawed conceptions of what it takes to be strong female characters. Bitsie clearly thinks that Juliette is one considering that she re-tweeted Joss Whedon's comment on why he writes strong female characters. And I think the viewing audience is partly to blame for that when they criticize a female character as being weak for crying after killing someone.  It's human to feel bad after taking a life but No! A strong female character should shoot a man in cold blood and walk away in slow motion like a bad-ass while buildings blow up behind her. 

 

They could have actually made this Hexenbeist arc interesting by showing Juliette to be more conflicted, being torn between good and evil,  between being human and wesen, create a sort of awkwardness where Hexenbeist and Grimm have to live together and co-exist. A baby Hexenbeist Juliette trying to learn the ropes on what it means to be wesen. Some of the old season 1 Grimm humor when Juliette accidentally woges.  Instead they went for bad-ass Juliette who is the greatest hexenbeist ever (They always have to write her as being the best in everything she does)  and go for cool fights and evil smirks. The sub par acting makes  it all worse.

 

I think that Adalind would have worked as the bumbling bad guy whose plots always go awry if they did not keep sticking her with the Royals and keep making her pregnant.

 

Here's Deborah Ann Woll ( Daredevil ) talking about what she thinks defines a well written female character:

 

 

“I want to look at the character traits through a very objective lens to make sure these are things that the character would do, and not worry about making decisions merely so that she can appear perfectly strong and perfectly intelligent and always do the right thing. That’s not an interesting complex woman,” Woll says. “So I think we should be fighting for complex, interesting, flawed female characters as opposed to the more old fashioned idea of a strong female who was this practically perfect person.”

 

—   Deborah Ann Woll about Karen Page, in How Daredevil’s Karen Page Is Finally Helping Fix Marvel’s Woman Problem by Sadie Gennis, TV Guide, May 7th 2015 [x].

 

Also:

 

 

How big a role does Juliette have in the finale?

 

Bitsie Tulloch:  Everything. The reality is she misses Nick and she loves him. But she just can’t imagine a way for them to be able to stay together under the circumstances. She’s been told by numerous people now there’s absolutely nothing she can do about it. And so what else would you do? I mean, you have to embrace your new life. She has to go forward with that.  And she is dead set on embracing it. She’s like, “If this is how it’s going to be, then I might as well be the best Hexenbiest I can.

 

 So basically Bitsie is saying that unlike Adalind, she is very much in control of herself as a Hexenbeist and that she is doing all this because she feels like she cannot live with Nick anymore?

Edited May 13, 2015 by anamika

[Prevailing Wind]

BT should just shut up.  I was all for blaming the writers for this dreck.  To read that she SO misunderstands what Juliette's doing and fan reaction against it makes me think the actress should find another line of work.

[franopy]

Bitsie Tulloch:  "The reality is she misses Nick and she loves him. But she just can’t imagine a way for them to be able to stay together under the circumstances. She’s been told by numerous people now there’s absolutely nothing she can do about it. And so what else would you do? I mean, you have to embrace your new life. She has to go forward with that.  And she is dead set on embracing it. She’s like, “If this is how it’s going to be, then I might as well be the best Hexenbiest I can".

 

 

 So basically Bitsie is saying that unlike Adalind, she is very much in control of herself as a Hexenbeist and that she is doing all this because she feels like she cannot live with Nick anymore?

 

Maybe setting your beloved's mother up for a beheading is the Hexenbiest way of showing your devotion...

 

Seriously. It's one thing to realise that you and your partner are probably not likely to find a way of staying together because of recent changes, but this is just nonsense and a sign that the new and "improved" Juliette may not be as much in control as Ms. Tulloch thinks she is. And how that makes her the best Hexenbiest she can be, is beyond me.

 

I also find it quite ironic that she mentions Adalind's "sleeping around" when her Juliette has essentially done the same. It was strongly implied with Renard and that new royal sip of water, so how's that different? She did it for fun while Adalind was doing it to get assistance? Oh well, different strokes, I guess.

 

Not that writers and actors should care about what one individual disgruntled viewer* thinks, but I personally don't find her interpretation of what's been going on very encouraging for my potential future viewing pleasure.

 

* (ex viewer, to be honest, I couldn't bring myself to watch the latest episode until now, but plan to watch it back to back with the finale and then either be done with Grimm or give it one final chance in the new season, but probably it will be the former)

 

The Juliette I kind of liked is long gone and I don't want whatever she is now on my screen. But it seems like we'll be getting more and more of her, so that seems to become my irreconcilable difference with the show. Rarely has a character been so thoroughly and irredeemably destroyed, at least in my opinion. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by franopy

[spaulding]

Like I mentioned earlier, it all boils down to flawed conceptions of what it takes to be strong female characters. Bitsie clearly thinks that Juliette is one considering that she re-tweeted Joss Whedon's comment on why he writes strong female characters. And I think the viewing audience is partly to blame for that when they criticize a female character as being weak for crying after killing someone.  It's human to feel bad after taking a life but No! A strong female character should shoot a man in cold blood and walk away in slow motion like a bad-ass while buildings blow up behind her.

 

Tulloch comes off as so damn unlikeable.   She desperately wants to be a focal point on this show. 

 

The writers de-powered Adalind and propped Juliette to be a Big Bad.  I got a passive-aggressive vibe when she compared Juliette to Adalind.  Adalind is weak because she aligned herself with the Royals; ahhh, she went to them to get her baby back.  Errrr, now, Juliette has aligned herself with the Royals for some non-weak reason. 

 

Oh, Adalind's also weak because she sleeps around.  Errr, Juliette slept with Renard and douche Kenneth.

 

http://www.dreadcentral.com/news/94080/grimms-bitsie-tulloch-talks-going-dark-the-royals-return-game-changing-season-finale-and-lots-more/

And then as the Hexenbiest… I hope nobody really tries to do anything that Juliette’s doing as a Hexenbiest. But it’s always nice to have a very powerful female character, whether for good or evil… to just have someone who is very much in control. Who is not relying on anybody else for anything. That’s one of the differences between Adalind and Juliette. Adalind was really reliant on the Royals and was sleeping around and stuff. The Hexenbiest are, you know, very sort of sexy witches. Juliette is kind of… it’s just everything that goes forward is going to be on her terms.

.

In those articles, Tulloch admits that Juliette is learning to control her powers and that she likes the control she has.  Well, no victimhood for her.  She knew exactly what she was doing when she set up Kelly to be murdered.

 

She's ridiculous about what makes a strong female character.  Setting up her boyfriend's mother to be murdered isn't badass or strong.  It didn't make her a kickass Big Bad.  She crossed the grey line and doesn't become a bad guy who people love to hate.

 

She should have watched Grimm to see the strong female characters on the show: Mama Grimm, Teresa, and especially, Rosalee.  I love how strong Rosalee is. 

 

http://www.dreadcentral.com/news/94080/grimms-bitsie-tulloch-talks-going-dark-the-royals-return-game-changing-season-finale-and-lots-more/

The reality is she misses Nick and she loves him. But she just can’t imagine a way for them to be able to stay together under the circumstances. She’s been told by numerous people now there’s absolutely nothing she can do about it. And so what else would you do? I mean, you have to embrace your new life. She has to go forward with that.

 

For such a strong female character, Juliette seems to center her existence around a man.  Everything she does is a reaction to Nick.  She was passive-aggressive to him when she found out about Nick-Adalind.  She has sex with douche Kenneth on their bed.  She burns the Grimmibago and set up Kelly to be murdered.  Everything she does is a big FU to Nick. 

 

Yet she's mad that Nick put away her pictures and doesn't gaze lovingly at them anymore.  And she's mad that she and Nick can't have a relationship because she's a Hexenbiest, the enemy of the Grimm. 

 

It's all about Nick.  She's absolutely nothing without him.  That's how Big Bad Juliette is being portrayed.

 

Not that writers and actors should care about what one individual disgruntled viewer* thinks, but I personally don't find her interpretation of what's been going on very encouraging for my potential future viewing pleasure.

 

I got the impression that she's going to be the focal point of the finale.  Arguably, she will be the focal point of S5.  Everybody must continue to react to Juliette; who is a minor character who is poorly written and might be getting more screen time in S5.

 

I can't stand that this show is now driven by pointless drama. 

 

BT should just shut up.  I was all for blaming the writers for this dreck.  To read that she SO misunderstands what Juliette's doing and fan reaction against it makes me think the actress should find another line of work.

 

No kidding. 

[merylinkid]

Well tht settles that.   Juliette can help how she is behaving if she is in control.   No, "Oh we must forgive her and understand her, it's the hexenbeist powers making her do it."   Nope, she's not possessed.   She knows exactly what she is doing and is happy about it.

 

If they make a Hexenbeist the focal point of  the new season of Grimm I am out.   

[ShadowFacts]

Wow, so many good points here about how delusional this actress is.  Juliette loves and misses Nick but can't be with him and has to master biesty stuff, so how about making sure to walk down memory lane before his mother is beheaded.  Juliette is stronger and more powerful than anyone, hell, she's queen of the show.  They need to leave her in Europe and only show her briefly now and then, the way they did with Adalind for awhile.  I can't handle it otherwise. 

[FormerMod-a1]

Bitsie Tulloch: Everything. The reality is she misses Nick and she loves him. But she just can’t imagine a way for them to be able to stay together under the circumstances. She’s been told by numerous people now there’s absolutely nothing she can do about it. And so what else would you do? I mean, you have to embrace your new life. She has to go forward with that. And she is dead set on embracing it. She’s like, “If this is how it’s going to be, then I might as well be the best Hexenbiest I can.

This is the part that gets to me. "numerous" people - it was just Henrietta, right? Or Rosalle, too. Even so that's 2 people, not "numerous". And they never said she couldn't be in a relationship. They just said they didn't see a way to reverse/remove the hexenbeist. Nick still wanted to be with her, regardless. And even if historically hexens and Grimms were mortal enemies, she should know that it doesn't have to be that way. Nick is not your normal Grimm. Monroe and Rosalie are together. Renard being part royal and wesen. All these different people working together. She's seen and knows all these things that are anomalies in this world, yet somehow thinks there is no way for them to remain a couple. Yes, it would take work, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Although since she never told Nick or the gang about now liking her powers and acting shocked and insulted when they did find a way to reverse or suppress them, maybe good communication is no longer a trait she has.

[Free]

 

And the reality is, too, that there’s probably a little bit of resentment because they did this to her, you know. They asked her to do this for them because Rosalee and Monroe were coming under so much fire. And in order to protect them, Nick needed to get his Grimm powers back. I mean, the only way to do that was to use Juliette as a vessel. And she agreed to do it. But she would never have done that if she had known this would be the side effect.

 

So basically continuing to blame everyone else except the one who actually did this to her, Adalind.  And you wonder why people don't like this storyline or her character.

 

No one knew this was a side effect, which is why blaming them is ridiculous, not to mention she willingly agreed to it.

 

 

How big a role does Juliette have in the finale?

 

Bitsie Tulloch:  Everything. The reality is she misses Nick and she loves him. But she just can’t imagine a way for them to be able to stay together under the circumstances. She’s been told by numerous people now there’s absolutely nothing she can do about it. And so what else would you do? I mean, you have to embrace your new life. She has to go forward with that.  And she is dead set on embracing it. She’s like, “If this is how it’s going to be, then I might as well be the best Hexenbiest I can.

 

And that's why she's setting people up to get killed, destroyed his trailer, blamed everyone else, slept around while attacking Nick for being tricked by Adalind, sold them all out to the Royals, and in the promo she's attacking Nick.  Wow, what a 'sympathetic' character.

[franopy]

And that's why she's setting people up to get killed, destroyed his trailer, blamed everyone else, slept around while attacking Nick for being tricked by Adalind, sold them all out to the Royals, and in the promo she's attacking Nick.  Wow, what a 'sympathetic' character.

 

I suppose her logic might be that Adalind's "sleeping around" was of a helpless nature, while Juliette's was empowered, but I still don't see how that makes Juliette the stronger character. By the way, I can't believe that I am standing up for Adalind of all characters because she also is the worst. I never could get into her brand of smug evil, but at least she was consistently, sometimes even hilariously, incompetent most of the time - I've come to think of her as the Wile E. Coyote of Hexenbiests. Anyway, because of its mean girl vibe, I do think Tulloch's condescension toward the character of Adalind is uncalled for and, worse, it doesn't even make sense in the light of Juliette's most recent behaviour.

 

Regarding her destruction of everything Nick holds dear, is it possible that they are going for her destroying everything Grimm because Nick being a Grimm is the reason she lost her previous life which she seems to miss and not miss at the same time (so confusing)?

 

First, she hits the Grimmebago, not only useful for his work, but also an important link to his ancestors/past/"culture", if we count the cutting off of heads as a cultural tradition. Then sets up his mother, with whom he had only fairly recently reconnected after thinking she was dead for years, and who in a cruelly ironic twist ends up without her head. That would be some nuclear levels of projection, but maybe then all it will take is a trip to the Wesen shrink and everything will be cool and dandy again. Nick will get over it because we all have dark moments sometimes and he has always felt guilty about everything that happened to Juliette since he became a Grimm. The End.

 

I still think any kind of redemption for Juliette is beyond the pale, I just can't help trying to figure out what is going on inside the character because they keep refusing to provide us with a clear motivation and the portrayal doesn't help either.

[Free]

 

I suppose her logic might be that Adalind's "sleeping around" was of a helpless nature, while Juliette's was empowered, but I still don't see how that makes Juliette the stronger character. By the way, I can't believe that I am standing up for Adalind of all characters because she also is the worst. I never could get into her brand of smug evil, but at least she was consistently, sometimes even hilariously, incompetent most of the time - I've come to think of her as the Wile E. Coyote of Hexenbiests. Anyway, because of its mean girl vibe, I do think Tulloch's condescension toward the character of Adalind is uncalled for and, worse, it doesn't even make sense in the light of Juliette's most recent behaviour.

 

That just goes to show how problematic Juliette's character is.  I don't see any empowerment either.

 

 

I still think any kind of redemption for Juliette is beyond the pale, I just can't help trying to figure out what is going on inside the character because they keep refusing to provide us with a clear motivation and the portrayal doesn't help either.

 

And this is why this storyline doesn't work at all.

[TwistedandBored]

I don't understand why many Juliette fans are hoping for possession storyline. All of the character's fans I keep seeing around are hoping that Adalind is somehow possessing Juliette and that is why she is doing all of these bad stuff and oh, that the baby is really Juliette and Nicks. Seriously!?!

 

I love my character wether they are horrible or not. Once I am fan, I am always a fan. So, I don't understand this thinking. 

[Prevailing Wind]

You'd just think, though, that any one of TPTB had to have been in television a fairly decent time and should recognize a deer in the headlights actress.  Fantasy: Me as producer..."I don't care who she's sleeping with; get somebody who can convey emotion & thought processes better than those guys on Mount Rushmore.  We get more from a performance by the Pillsbury Dough Boy."

 

(This is why I should never read any interviews/tweets/whatevers by "the talent" - it only pisses me off thinking about all the unemployed actors who could've done a much better job, without the need to become "bad ass.")

[Dobian]

I don't have a lot to add to the above comments, just that I agree with the sentiments.  This is one of the great character train wrecks in tv history.  Both the writers and the actress have gone loco.  I just hope they kill Juliette on Friday, but I have a feeling they plan on making her the big antagonist next season or giving her a gigantic redemption arc that I don't want to watch.

[FormerMod-a1]

Well, I can't criticize Bitsie for giving her opinion  (which she has every right to have), and it seems fairly clear she is playing the character exactly the way she views the character.  Not my idea of a strong woman, but then I don't think guns make a man.  I find the character of Juiliette to be alienating, but the actress seems to believe she's playing her just right.  She's getting the paycheck, after all. I do think the writers (and Bitsie if she has any input) could have made the character less one note and more complicated.  Right now we pretty much have a machine 98% of the time.  I would like to think they pull this storyline out of its nosedive in the last episode this season, but I'm not seeing quite how they will manage it.

 

I agree with all of this.  And I'll add I have no negative opinions on Bitsie herself (aside from being meh on her acting). As a working actress, she is getting paid, she seems to enjoy the role, who wouldn't want that for their job?  Any job?  She's excited about what she's doing, so good for her.  I'm not being facetious.  I may point out flaws in her logic (and I did that just above) or things I don't like about the character (done that too) but that doesn't mean I hate the actress.

[Free]

I don't understand why many Juliette fans are hoping for possession storyline. All of the character's fans I keep seeing around are hoping that Adalind is somehow possessing Juliette and that is why she is doing all of these bad stuff and oh, that the baby is really Juliette and Nicks. Seriously!?!

 

I love my character wether they are horrible or not. Once I am fan, I am always a fan. So, I don't understand this thinking. 

 

That would be terrible and it's already bad enough with the Adalind baby plots, we don't need Juliette's making it any worse.

[Prevailing Wind]

I don't hate BT; I'm just baffled as to her lack of understanding of what damage has been done to her character, all for the sake of "it would be fun to be bad-ass."  Well, knock your socks off having fun; the wonderful show I used to watch has done more than just circle the drain with this nonsense.  It's gone down the freakin' drain and is headed to the sewerage treatment plant. If she wanted to play a bad-ass, she should've auditioned for a bad-ass role.

[johntfs]

I don't hate BT; I'm just baffled as to her lack of understanding of what damage has been done to her character, all for the sake of "it would be fun to be bad-ass."  Well, knock your socks off having fun; the wonderful show I used to watch has done more than just circle the drain with this nonsense.  It's gone down the freakin' drain and is headed to the sewerage treatment plant. If she wanted to play a bad-ass, she should've auditioned for a bad-ass role.

 

I think it's more likely that she's saying what she's been told to say.  She's a working actress who,wants to keep being a working actress.  So, she's not going to say, "Yeah, these next nine episodes or so are steaming piles of ratshit that utterly undermine and destroy the character of Juliette.  No one should watch them."

 

Personally, I kind of hope that Juliet is killed and then next season her twin sister, perhaps named Miranda or Hermione, comes to town to investigate her death.

[friendperidot]

I just got to see the last episode at 1 AM because of weather on Friday. I know I could have watched on line, but I didn't. Had a thought about Juliette, she's a made Hexenbiest and was told she was a super powered Hexenbiest. My thought is that maybe with that came all of the hatred and anger of all hexenbiests for all time with all Grimms of all time. She thinks she's in power and she likes the power but it is all of the forever and ever hatred, anger and fear were put into her with her transformation.

 

Or not.

[johntfs]

I kind of hope that much of this is somehow a Leverage/Mission Impossible style mindfuck that Juliette and Kelly are pulling to "royally" screw the Royals or throw them off the trail of Diana.  It occurs to me that the folks ultimately most responsible for getting Adalind pregnant and hexenbiesting Juliette are the royals.  I can't help but think that Juliette has something nasty in mind for them.  I suspect she'll kill the King when he shows up, then says something to Kenneth like "Congratulations, your Majesty.  Now fuck off and leave us alone here or I'll end you, too."

[chrisvee]

Sleepy Hollow had the good sense to kill off their albatross. I hope Grimm does the same.

The thought process that Juliette has to be evil because it's her nature even though she loves Nick is just...wow. Juliette has met the Captain and Monroe right?

[Free]

Sleepy Hollow had the good sense to kill off their albatross. I hope Grimm does the same.

The thought process that Juliette has to be evil because it's her nature even though she loves Nick is just...wow. Juliette has met the Captain and Monroe right?

 

This feels so much like Sleepy Hollow, the similarities are striking.

[WedgeOfSpite]

She’s been told by numerous people now there’s absolutely nothing she can do about it.

 

 

Juliette was told that by two people, one of whom later approached her with a cure/suppression. Which she promptly destroyed. 

 

And so what else would you do?

 

Not destroy the cure?

 

Anyhew, BT has the right to feel however she wants. I generally don't have a problem with how actors feel about their storylines, characters, the show, except when I think it colours their acting negatively (or if they have more power, the show itself *cough Juliana Marguiles cough*). As long as they sell what they're supposed to sell, whatever they think off camera, generally doesn't matter to me. 

 

But what I think from reading BT's comments here, is she may be letting her view of things negatively impact her (already limited) acting choices.  BT seems very invested in a BAD ASS Juliette, but it's where BAD ASS is very one-dimensional. Which shows in her acting. So Juliette is all sneering, calling Adalind bitch and whore, petulance, and using her power to do whatever she wants. What she calls BAD ASS, I call middle-schooler.

 

And if Juliette is supposed to still love Nick, I'm not seeing it. To be fair to BT, I don't think the writing has done enough to show that love is still in there. But I do think that was what the flashbacks in the last episode, were supposed to convey...but from watching that scene, it was guesswork on my part. Maybe they'll write more towards that in further episodes. Which yeah, that should be fun to watch be the justification for the redemption arc. 

 

Though I'm sure BT will miss Juliette's super-powered BAD ASS ways. 

[Commando Cody]

All that really goes on in head these days is -

 

DG: "Can you give my girlfriend a bigger part?"

[Happytobehere]

Anybody who wants to binge-watch Sleepy Hollow (highly recommend) and doesn't want to find out how everything was course corrected, do not read the following passage. Ready? Here goes.

 

With Sleepy Hollow we had an annoying redhead. Imagine Juliette with the same wooden acting, only an English accent and trying to make every sentence sound urgent and important. Getting that? Good. Now imagine that they alternate every show with Katrina and Ichabod being deeply in love and them separating because he keeps finding out just how many lies she told him. So, it's "I can't believe how you betrayed me!" "MY BELOVED!" 

 

It was called by the fans "Crane Family Drama," and indeed the star of the show even referred to it that way and blatantly said he was sick of it as well.

 

Not only that, they had another character who started out cool but became annoying, and brought in a new character the audience didn't really like.

 

The showrunner completely tried to push the hugely popular and likable female lead out of the way and talked up Katrina/the actress in every interview. He was apparently the only one who thought she was awesome. The ratings started to go down the drain. He didn't care and just made her role bigger and bigger, as if we would change our minds about her. It only made the viewers hate her more. The network forced them to course correct. What did they do?

 

They turned Katrina evil in kind of the same way they've done with Juliette, only at least they gave her a reason. She turned so evil, that her own husband wound up killing her. Yes, the show went there, which is proof it can be done. They've also promised that Ichabod will not spend the next season moping and crying about it. Brilliant, right? Then in the same episode they got rid of the other two annoying characters, so what we had left is the original core team everyone loved from the first season. 

 

As I've said, the course correction was obvious, but the fans were too busy cheering and swinging from the chandeliers to care. And the showrunner is no longer the showrunner.

 

END SLEEPY HOLLOW SPOILERS

 

I just don't see the same thing happening here. I see the showrunners and David G. just thinking Bitsie is awesome no matter how the fans react. The worst thing showrunners can do is say the fans just don't get it. As if we're all idiots and he's a creative genius, so we should just see things his way. These are the ones I want to see fail. 

 

I see them expanding her role. I am predicting a redemption arc for sure, since they are also taking out billboards about how she's not herself, poor thing. They're hoping this whole evil arc will slip our minds, as they've hoped with all of the other things they let drop to the pavement, and we'll say, "Oh, Juliette! I've missed you! I love you so much! Come here and give me a hug, you sweet girl!" 

 

And in a great effort of tell don't show, that this show does so well, we'll be told by every character how we should forgive her because "She wasn't herself." They will use the magic out clause, and it will be just as disastrous as Evil!Juliette!

I agree with your post 100% and this is why I doubt I will be returning to Season 5 and the its all about Juliette show. As good a comparison as what's going on here is to Sleepy Hollow, we are also getting the same thing with The Blacklist -- an under talented actress continues to be propped to the detriment of the show and the ratings continue to take a nose-dive, but rather than admit to error and course correct, they are doubling down on the character of Lizzie and the actress in the role.

[Free]

And if Juliette is supposed to still love Nick, I'm not seeing it. To be fair to BT, I don't think the writing has done enough to show that love is still in there. But I do think that was what the flashbacks in the last episode, were supposed to convey...but from watching that scene, it was guesswork on my part. Maybe they'll write more towards that in further episodes. Which yeah, that should be fun to watch be the justification for the redemption arc.

 

Maybe show some inner struggle/motivation instead of intercutting scenes of Juliette staring blankly with flashbacks and then having her next scene with her going along with their plan.

[kathyk24]

I think Juliette has confused being badass with bad period. She's hurt too many people to ever be redeemed.Even if Nick wanted to forgive her Hank among others would talk him out of it. She knew that Nick's mother was his only living relative and she participated in her murder. You can't atone for that. If Nick can't kill her I'm sure Trubel or the Wesen Counsel will do the deed.

[anamika]

 we are also getting the same thing with The Blacklist -- an under talented actress continues to be propped to the detriment of the show and the ratings continue to take a nose-dive, but rather than admit to error and course correct, they are doubling down on the character of Lizzie and the actress in the role.

 

But Lizzie is one of the main characters on that show. I can understand them focusing on her because the story is about her. They should probably write her better or get the actress to do better but in a sense, she is the lead character.  Grimm on the other hand was about Nick and Grimm stuff. There is no need for so much focus on a side character whose actress can't emote well.

 

 

And if Juliette is supposed to still love Nick, I'm not seeing it. To be fair to BT, I don't think the writing has done enough to show that love is still in there.

 

 The writing and acting  has always struggled to show that Juliette loves Nick. Like Bitsie mentioned:

 

 

And the reality is, too, that there’s probably a little bit of resentment because they did this to her, you know. They asked her to do this for them because Rosalee and Monroe were coming under so much fire. And in order to protect them, Nick needed to get his Grimm powers back. I mean, the only way to do that was to use Juliette as a vessel. And she agreed to do it. But she would never have done that if she had known this would be the side effect.

 

Which is true. It basically goes this way:

 

Nick is depressed about losing his Grimmness. Juliette is whatever and goes behind his back and asks his friends not to help. Nick experiences excruciating headaches. Juliette is all, but we can have a normal family life! Bud explains that wesen are out to kill Nick now that he is no longer Grimm. Juliette is like whatever. (She had a blank look on her face that seemed to say 'whatever').

 

Someone burns a cross on Monroe and Rosalee's front yard. Juliette is like, OMG Nick you have to become Grimm. Let's do it!

 

Monroe and Rosalee did not ask her to do it, but she volunteered to do it because their life was endangered. But, the writing seems to indicate that she was not ready to afford that same courtesy to the man that she supposedly loves. 

 

Season 2 was basically her hating on Nick pretty much the whole season. Season 3 was hilarious where Nick finds the ring in the drawer and shows it to her and she shrugs it aside in favor of folding her laundry. Season 4 starts with her blaming Nick for getting raped.

 

I just don't care about their relationship. As a viewer I am not invested in it or give a damn whether they make it or not.

 

I have never been into the whole idea that  Nick needs a girlfriend to make the show work. Daredevil has shown that you can have a story about a single, lead,  super powered character without girlfriend drama. With the way the ratings are going, I am pretty sure season 5 is going to be the last one we are getting. I am all for making Nick single in season 5, just doing Grimm things, finding the keys and lots of awesome Grimm treasure stuff to make up for the burned Grimmebago. If they want romance drama do it with Monroe/Rosalee or Hank/Other. Better actors and Rosalee is more than just bad-ass.

 

Unfortunately for all my whining and ranting on here, Juliette will probably continue to bring in the melodrama and nonsensical plot lines in season 5. I think my dislike of her is compounded by the fact that I am no longer able to watch or enjoy one of my light entertainment shows. The minute she shows up on screen with her version of 'bad-ass' acting, it puts me off. All the Adalind-Baby-Royal nonsense, dropped plot points and uninteresting cases of the week does not help either. When a show becomes a chore to watch, its time to stop watching. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by anamika

[merylinkid]

We have put more thought in what is motivating Bad Juliette than that writers have.   Remember, she was supposed to be a baker but they changed her to a vet at the last minute because Bitsie likes dogs (which should have been a warning sign they let the actress have a little too much control over her character).   Umm okay.   So basically no difference between baker and vet as far as the character's reason for existing on the show.   THey didn't make her a vet because they thought she would be helpful in dealing with Wesen.   They made her a vet because what the hell, it didn't matter.

 

They seem to be doing the same thing here.   Oh let's just turn Juliette into a Hexenbeist to give the actress a meatier role.   Okay.   Now what?   And they don't know.   Even a good actress would have trouble with figuring out how to portray what is going with the poor dialogue and direction she is given.   With Bitsie's lack of ability to emote, there is little hope that the audience is really going to understand.   That's why the divide between the "Juliette is possessed" and "Juliette knows what she is doing and likes it" camps.   Because everyone is interpreting a lack of being shown anything in their own way.   

 

IMO, the showrunners (or whoever) made a big mistake in making Juliette the side character they would feature more.   Not Monroe who was originally the feature side character as Nick's entry into the Wesen world.   Not Hank, who at first was the confused buddy who finally got in the know so he could help.   Not Renard who seems to have a far too intimate relationship with his phone.   Nope, the girlfriend character they didn't even care enough about to develop a decent backstory (job, family, friends, anything) got to be front and center.   With no underlying characterization other than "girlfriend"  there is not a lot of foundation to build something this big on.   

[Free]

Unfortunately for all my whining and ranting on here, Juliette will probably continue to bring in the melodrama and nonsensical plot lines in season 5. I think my dislike of her is compounded by the fact that I am no longer able to watch or enjoy one of my light entertainment shows. The minute she shows up on screen with her version of 'bad-ass' acting, it puts me off. All the Adalind-Baby-Royal nonsense, dropped plot points and uninteresting cases of the week does not help either. When a show becomes a chore to watch, its time to stop watching. 

 

Don't be sorry, you've brought up some very good points.  I'm already at the breaking point with the show, so I'll probably be out after the finale if it continues to go in this direction too.

[Dobian]

The whole Royals plot was lame from the start.  It's like some bad re-imagining of the Cassadines from General Hospital.  I really believe the showrunner watched a lot of GH growing up.  They were a completely unnecessary addition and distracted from the action happening in Portland.  All the episodes where we had to check in with Adalind in Austria were very disjointed.  Just a lot of bad soap opera, now made worse by throwing Juliette into the middle of it as this new antagonist.  They really need to close out the whole Royals and Juliette thing in the finale, and get back to what made the show fun the first two seasons.  Remember the ending of season 2 when the Baron put Nick into the death coma?  On the screen it said, "Oh come on, you knew this was coming".  Now that's a great season cliffhanger!  They knew this show is supposed to be FUN, and the humorous closing comment reflected that.  Now the show is falling into that trap that so many shows fall into where they start to take everything too seriously, and force all this drama into the story where it's not needed.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Dobian

[OtterMommy]

I have not watched yet, but as much as I'd like to believe Juliette is well and truly dead, I cannot rejoice until the beginning of next season.

Also, this.

I think I want to smack some showrunners.

 

 

Oops, Sweet Tooth's link didn't come through...it's over in the Cry Havoc thread and basically it was a link to the article saying that Juliette's fate will be decided in season 5.

 

Anyway, this Juliette mess reminded me of a sort of similar situation on Grey's Anatomy a few years ago.  They had introduced a character (Erica Hahn) and it was clear that they had big plans for her--she was tied into one of the big former story lines (a ridiculous one, but a big one) and she played a part in a regular character having a bit of a sexual awakening.  However, it became very clear very quickly that the writers had lost complete control of the character.  She was TERRIBLE!  There was literally not a single likable feature to this character.  It was painful to watch because the actress was quite good and the audience could tell that the writer's were trying to do something, but just couldn't.  Ultimately, they had the character walk out to her car and never come back.  Yes, that is exactly what happened.

 

Obviously, this isn't an exact comparison--Juliette has been a character from the beginning, for one thing.  But I really got the same feeling.  It was like TPTB were kids in a candy store for a while and then stopped, looked at each other, and said, "Oh, shit!  Now what do we do?"

 

I think this, more than any other thing in the show so far, has shown how inept the writing team is.  I know that they hired a couple of new writers recently, but they are young and "promoted from within," so I don't know if it will have any impact.  Ugh!

 

(Reading this...maybe I should have posted it in the Writing forum...oh well....my apologies!)

[OtterMommy]

Thanks, OtterMommy! 

 

So it's you're contention that they're just saying that, but she really is dead? That would be nice. On Sleepy Hollow, they didn't screw with us like this. They made  it clear Katrina was dead. That's how I like my hated characters to go.

 

I would LOVE to be wrong and that the show/writers has the guts to kill off such a major character. I guess we'll have to wait a long time to find out. 

 

It would be my desire that she is dead.

 

However, I really, really doubt it.  I think that some weird thing (my current theory is that Siegeborst gift killed the hexenbiest in Juliette, but not Juliette.  Since Monroe made a bit of deal about it earlier in the show, I think it has to be important) will turn her back into human Juliette so that the writers can start all over and pretend the last half of this season didn't happen with her.  She may be back in the house, but the Hexenbiest headed out to the parking lot, so to say.

[Free]

Thanks, OtterMommy! 

 

So it's you're contention that they're just saying that, but she really is dead? That would be nice. On Sleepy Hollow, they didn't screw with us like this. They made  it clear Katrina was dead. That's how I like my hated characters to go.

 

I would LOVE to be wrong and that the show/writers has the guts to kill off such a major character. I guess we'll have to wait a long time to find out. 

 

It does remind me of Sleepy Hollow's Katrina's arc, but even then, I was at least able to understand her poorly written motivations when compared to Juliette's which was just a clusterfuck.