S04.E18: Heart Of Gold

[KAOS Agent]

 

So, speaking of Robin and the apartment and Rumple refusing to take Neal's things (some very meager possessions at that) and going on about those things are Neal Cassidy's, I find it sort of interesting that the show has drawn a line between Baelfire and Neal much as most viewers have.  It's also sad that Rumple was very eh about Neal's things.

 

I can understand him rejecting what he considered to be symbols of his failures as a father, but the whole time I was thinking that Henry might want that stuff. Rumpel knew at that point that he was returning to Storybrooke, so why not take the box, label it "Neal's Stuff" and drop it in the back room of the pawn shop where it could be found by someone who'd give it to Henry? It'll never be addressed again, but I'd be seriously pissed if Robin got rid of that stuff once Rumpel rejected it because it's all that's left of Henry's father.

[dr pepper]

You know that dream where you have a final exam but are in a panic because you realize you forgot to go to class all semester? That's kind of how I felt watching this episode. Even though I have never missed a single episode I felt like I missed half a season somewhere along the line because so much made no sense to me.

 

I've had dreams in which i suddenly remember having signed up for college in another state several months ago.

 

But maybe that was a retcon.

[dr pepper]

Why is Robin dressed in the uniform of my high school's marching band (hat included)?

 

RETCON!

 

Your high school is/was now a Realm!

Specifically, The Jungle Book!

The debate club was the Bander-Log!

The head of PE was Shere Khan!

The counselor's office was a cobra den!

The PTA was the superstitious villagers!

And the cafeteria was where you were supposed to honor the Water Truce.

[Shanna Marie]

I mean, we had no idea of how Marian would be conceived by them in the Once-verse. She could have been secretly evil as all hell in their minds...and that would have helped OQ. There was no guarantee that the cat would be out of the bag if they left little hints that she had a dark side.

Since we hardly knew the real Marian, she could have done just about everything short of turning green and cackling and I doubt most of us would have said, "Oh, I bet she's really Zelena in disguise" before the big reveal. Given what she'd been through since he last saw her and what he was up to when he saw her again, even Robin likely wouldn't have noticed anything truly off. From what we've seen of her, the actress was more than capable of adding a tiny touch of Zelena to her portrayal, the way Colin added a few little Rumple mannerisms when Rumple was pretending to be Hook. It wasn't super obvious, but when you rewatch the episode, you find yourself saying that of course that was Rumple. That's what Marian needed to have had all along.

 

Of course, it would have helped a lot if her plan had made any sense at all and had been at all in character for what Zelena was shown to have wanted. Living in poverty in a strange city with a man who considered her second best to Regina would never have been on Zelena's bucket list.

[Camera One]

These writers think it's impressive to say they planned something all along.  Like how in S1, they already knew Cora almost married Leopold and you can see invisible hints in "The Stable Boy".  

 

I'm not surprised they wanted to pull a dumb twist like this, but to have zero indications until the reveal 18 episodes later is just pathetic.  Even something as simple as Robin being flabbergasted and admit to Will or someone that he can't feel it with Marion anymore and he doesn't understand why.  There seems to be zero thinking about how Zelena would actually act if she had been in a position to impersonate Marion, since they wrote 4A as if Marion was Marion.  

 

I still don't get why they're doing this, except for the sake of a twist, and to get Marion out of the way permanently.  Are we supposed to be excited for another big showdown between Regina and Zelena?  Because the last one was pathetic. Zelena walking through the halls of the hospital to get the baby was one of the worst planned/filmed sequences on this show so far.  The big climax where no one did anything except Regina summoned her sudden white magic was hardly cheer-worthy.  Why should we be excited for an encore?  

Edited April 16, 2015 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

The one thing that might make things interesting is that it seems as though Zelena might still have magic, but is no longer superpowered the way she was before, so it would be a more even match. Though I don't trust them to have enough of a consistent magical system for that to make any difference, and with them already having Rumple and Cruella on Team Evil, with their varying degrees of magic, Team Good is still badly outpowered. Until it isn't at the last second.

[Camera One]

Unfortunately, I don't think Zelena not being super-powered is going to make any difference.  She was apparently the best magical student Rumple had, and even managed to escape him taking the Ruby Slippers.  And as you said, no rules = whatever the writers want will apply.  Team Good will never not be outpowered, on this show, with these writers.  If Emma ends up joining the dark side, as per Rumple's plan, Team Good has no one with magic.  Except Blue, who will be as "helpful" as always.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Team Good has no one with magic.

The Regina snub is strong with this one. ;)

[Camera One]

Oops, Freudian slip.  I was assuming Regina would still be coerced to work with Rumple.

[KAOS Agent]

Regina's on Team Author. I'm not sure she'd actively kill anyone on Team Good, but she might work towards her own ends to get what she wants. Now that Rumpel/Zelena are threatening Robin, Regina's agenda is more ambiguous with regards to what she's willing to do.

[ParadoxLost]

m not surprised they wanted to pull a dumb twist like this, but to have zero indications until the reveal 18 episodes later is just pathetic.  Even something as simple as Robin being flabbergasted and admit to Will or someone that he can't feel it with Marion anymore and he doesn't understand why.  There seems to be zero thinking about how Zelena would actually act if she had been in a position to impersonate Marion, since they wrote 4A as if Marion was Marion.  

 

Yes, Robin needed to grieve that he no longer had feelings for Marian.  It would have sold that he found love again with Regina but had loved his first wife its just that she wasn't the same woman.  Heck, have Roland not recognize his Mother.  Everyone thinks it is because he's young but its not.

 

What bothers me most about Zelena being Marian is that now we have two characters whose reaction to Regina makes no sense.  They were perfectly set up in that they could have Marian really hate and snark on Regina and have it be totally believable that Marian would feel that way and make Regina a little sympathetic.  Then they turn around and reveal the absolute lack of compassion was because it was Zelena all along.

 

All I can fanwank is that this is how villains think heroes act (based on stupidity like Snow's adultery pep talk that they've heard over the years) and Zelena was trying to emulate a heroine at the exclusion of common sense.

[kili]

Here is another hinky element to the "Zelena was Marian" all along.

 

Rumple never suspected a thing. Rumple has shown in the past that he can detect magical users. He has his spidey-senses set to 11 trying to figure out if Emma has the magical abilities to travel back to the future and he never notices that there is another person in the room that has such amazing magical abilities he can't even kill her?

 

Also, since Zelena was the first person through the portal (in dust form) how come the portal opened to where Emma wanted it to open? Zelena had been through the portal for a while. Portals are supposed to open to the place/time that the first person who enters the portal is thinking about and seem to close when everybody in the vicinity have decided that they are or are not going to be in that portal. Why did this portal stay open so long?

 

I just can't believe that Zelena enters the magical portal and decides to spend her entire time stalking Emma and Hook. She doesn't want to at least spit in Rumple's tea after he killed her or put cellophane over Regina's toilet? What was her plan going to be if Marian hadn't turned out to be Robin's wife? What if Marian had really just been a Random Peasent? What benefit does she get being Random Peasant in Storybrooke future compared to being whatever she could be with apparently all her powers in the past - a past where she knows the future and can start changing it?

[Camera One]

I was thinking about her umpteenth monologue in the episode:

 

 

 

ZELENA:

When you stabbed me in that jail cell, I didn't die.
My life force simply fled my body before it shattered.
I had somewhere to go.
Or should I say some time?

 

Why did her life force flee her body before it shatter?  How did she get that ability?  Rumple couldn't tell?  Why doesn't every villain do that before they're killed?

 

 

RUMPLE: You followed Emma through the time portal.

ZELENA: Aah! That I did.

 

Thanks, Rumple for the reminder.  It has been 18 episodes and my memory is so weak.

 

 

 

ZELENA: And when I realized what Emma had planned for Marian, well, I knew I had to get in while the getting was good.
So I bided my time watching Emma and her one-handed lover scurrying about trying to right their mistakes

and When I saw they planned on bringing Robin's wife back, I mean [Laughs] Inspiration struck! And then I struck.
For a few careless moments, they left her unattended, and that was all I needed.
I killed her.
And then I became her.
I took her form.

 

Thanks for saying the same thing 3 different ways.  She mentioned she "realized" what Emma had planned for Marion, which caused her to watch Emma/Hook and THEN when she saw they planned on bringing Robin's wife back?  Huh?  Was the realization before or after she started following them?  

 

 

ZELENA: Do you know, it wasn't easy not being me, but knowing that it would ruin Regina's happiness Oh [inhales sharply] I mean, that made it worth every dull moment in her body.
[Laughs] Marian never made the trip To Storybrooke.
RUMPLE: No.
ZELENA: [Laughs] No, dear.
It was me all along.

 

Yes we GET IT.  YOU WERE MARION.  Are they afraid the audience would miss it the first 7 times it was expressed?  LOL!  What a waste of screentime, seriously.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Camera One

[Zuleikha]

There seems to be zero thinking about how Zelena would actually act if she had been in a position to impersonate Marion, since they wrote 4A as if Marion was Marion.

 

I've been thinking about this a bit, and I think it's pretty bad but not quite as bad as it seems on first glance. IIRC, Zelena-as-Marian was only conscious for about a day or two when she returned, and Robin was pretty flabbergasted during a lot of that. There wasn't a lot of time for her to slip up. Zelena just had to lay low and be fairly quiet (which matches my memory of how Marian behaved) and then she was iced. I'm going to assume that Ingrid honestly iced Zelena rather than that all being part of Zelena's grand master plan. Then when she was conscious, she had long enough to give the speech to Regina and play with Roland in the park before the icing return. In the spoiler thread, I think we were assuming that Zelena faked the return of the icing to separate Robin and Regina, but what if she didn't? So then again, Zelena was forced out, had no magic outside of her glamour, and was in a strange land but she was with Regina's boyfriend. So she was just making the best of a bad hand to get some form of revenge by at least stealing Robin. 

 

The heart being pure red, I'm fine with being part of the glamour because we know the necklace works passively so fine, say the heart passed through the glamour radius and was glamoured. Likewise, with the snow monster, I can buy that Zelena didn't use her own magic because she was simply that confident Regina wouldn't let Marian die because after all, this was not the Marian who still thought of Regina as the Evil Queen. This was Zelena who had been defeated because Regina was so changed she could access light magic. Robin did notice something was off with Marian; he just didn't make the leap that the something was off meant that she was being impersonated by an evil magic user.

 

But what I cannot reconcile are two things. First, what Zelena's motivation was for the speech to Regina in the end if I also assume Zelena was planning on staying in Storybrooke and working a longer con (or alternately, if Zelena's plan was to steal Robin, why Zelena would prefer to steal Robin and be without magic than hide out for a bit in Storybrooke pretending to be Marian and maneuver for a more comfortable and hand's on revenge against Regina). Second, how did Zelena get the 6-Leaf Clover from Oz? She was dead and incorporeal! Is it really supposed to be that she was just so freaking lucky that Marian happened to be wearing the glamour necklace when Zelena wanted to impersonate her (and that the glamour necklace didn't get turned to dust along with Marian?)

 

Also, wasn't the whole point of the necklace being Zelena's weakness was that the necklace made Zelena super ridiculously powerful but that she couldn't access magic without it? So how did she have magic in Enchanted Forest? (or did the necklace crumple when the green smoke left it? I can't remember)

Edited April 16, 2015 by Zuleikha

[Camera One]

Also, wasn't the whole point of the necklace being Zelena's weakness was that the necklace made Zelena super ridiculously powerful but that she couldn't access magic without it? So how did she have magic in Storybrooke?

 

I think it was the Pendant given to her by Glinda which was the ridiculously powerful object.  I don't think we've ever seen the 6-Leaf Clover necklace from Oz until this episode.

[Zuleikha]

Oops, I meant the Enchanted Forest, not Storybrooke (now edited). Zelena used magic to kill Marian, but I thought she couldn't have magic without her Pendant.

[AudienceofOne]

Is it really supposed to be that she was just so freaking lucky that Marian happened to be wearing the glamour necklace when Zelena wanted to impersonate her

 

 

And you know, if they'd had Zelena say

 

"I saw this woman with the glamour necklace on her who was opposing Regina and so I shadowed her for a while until Emma rescued her form the cells. Realising Emma was determined to bring her back to Storybrooke, I saw my opportunity to regain my corporeal form and have a second chance at reclaiming the life I was supposed to have,"

 

it wouldn't have explained why she wanted to come back to the future but at least it would have explained a lot of the other inconsistencies.

[Rumsy4]

It makes no sense how Zelena knew Marian was Robin's wife.

[YaddaYadda]

It makes no sense how Zelena knew Marian was Robin's wife.

 

Does anything regarding this plot point make any sense?  I'm not asking sarcastically, I genuinely don't get how Zelena is corporeal in the EF.  Was she around the EF when Emma and Hook landed there?  Did her life force find her own body in the past?  There are zero explanations as to how Zelena returned to being Zelena in the past.

[BoPeeps]

It's a mess. A freaking mess that only makes sense in the minds of A&E and since they are in control, we are OUT of control. It makes no sense but it isn't OUR sense. There isn't a Walt Disney Damn thing we can do about it.

So....
How about, for old times sake, A&E, throw a lot of us a bone. Give us back our beloved pirate rapscallion, in fact, give him a few good snarky lines...AND the coat. Give David some...intestinal fortitude. Give Henry some personality again. Let Emma smile at...Something! Let Grumpy complain about everything!

Introduce as much bullpucky out of thin air plot points with as many goofball non-villain villains you want. Appease Disney. Make all the brooms in town dirty dance THe Marengo in a circle around the clock tower. Hell, put Baby in a corner if you feel like it.

Just throw us a bone to make us embrace the kind of fun magic that kept us enthralled for the past seasons. You are losing a lot of us.

Edited April 16, 2015 by BoPeeps

[Rumsy4]

Does anything regarding this plot point make any sense? I'm not asking sarcastically, I genuinely don't get how Zelena is corporeal in the EF. Was she around the EF when Emma and Hook landed there? Did her life force find her own body in the past? There are zero explanations as to how Zelena returned to being Zelena in the past.

She didn't even do a resurrection spell ala Voldy, or even Neal for Rumple. How does Zelena have these powers? Is she more powerful than the Dark One? Zelena's spirit possessing Marian's body would have made more sense than having her rematerialize with no explanations. 

Edited April 16, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Curio]

Just throw us a bone to make us embrace the kind of fun magic that kept us enthralled for the past seasons. You are losing a lot of us.

 

Amen. I can handle the wackadoodle plots and crazy retcons, but those are usually in between moments of levity here and there. Like last season, I wanted to throw my chair through the window because the cursed lips plot was so stupid, but at least I had moments like Emma magically poofing a hot chocolate cup over to Hook to balance it out. But with this 4B arc, those moments of levity are few and far between and it's really taking a toll on my love for the show. I used to be so excited to watch the show live Sunday night that I'd make sure to cook dinner and be prepared for it well before 7:00. Now? Eh, maybe I'll go out for some drinks Sunday night and catch the show without commercials Monday night instead. I haven't been this apathetic for the show since 2B.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Curio

[iMonrey]

My problem isn't with the Marian/Zelina contradictions. Sure, they're egregious but no more so than anything else on this show. Continuity has never been its friend. But big picture - compared to the overall storyline this season this is pretty small potatoes. 

 

To wit: Maleficent warns Snow and Charming their baby has the potential for Great Good or Great Evil. So Snow and Charming steal Mal's egg baby and perform this ritual that sucks out all the potential Evil from fetal Emma and transfers it into Mal's egg baby. Have I got that right? So . . . what the hell is everyone worrying about? If the Big Plot is to turn Emma to the Dark Side, haven't Snow and Charming already prevented that from happening? Because if Emma can still be turned Evil, what the hell was the whole point of the ritual? Wasn't the whole point to remove that possibility?

 

Or - does Gold plan to use the Author to re-write the whole thing so that Snow and Charming never performed this ritual? Because we've seen nothing to indicate the author can change what's already happened. I thought he could only write new endings and manipulate the story going forward. If he can re-write history, doesn't that open up a whole Butterfly Effect, potentially removing Maleficent from the current sequence of events?

 

I could probably live with one story or the other ("Author", or "Snow and Charming Did Something Bad!"), but the two of them seem to cancel each other out, as far as I can see. Everyone seems to be spinning their wheels over nothing. The overall premise of this season just doesn't make any sense. 

[DeLurker]

I think before each ep there should be an Alcohol Advisory to warn you how many drinks or how strong a beverage you should have so you just "go" with whatever they are throwing at the wall this week.  Heart of Gold clearly required many shots of Everclear.

[Curio]

I think we're beyond alcohol at this point. I'm going to need to start making weekly trips to Colorado or Washington.

[KingOfHearts]

She didn't even do a resurrection spell ala Voldy, or even Neal for Rumple. How does Zelena have these powers? Is she more powerful than the Dark One? Zelena's spirit possessing Marian's body would have made more sense than having her rematerialize with no explanations.

It's all about the pendant. It's the only reason her life force was able to escape. For all we know, becoming corporal after "death" is part of its powers.

[DeLurker]

I think we're beyond alcohol at this point. I'm going to need to start making weekly trips to Colorado or Washington.

Media Marijuana.

[jhlipton]

Here is another hinky element to the "Zelena was Marian" all along.

 

Rumple never suspected a thing. Rumple has shown in the past that he can detect magical users. He has his spidey-senses set to 11 trying to figure out if Emma has the magical abilities to travel back to the future and he never notices that there is another person in the room that has such amazing magical abilities he can't even kill her?

 

And wouldn't he know that she wasn't totally dead (or even mostly dead)?  Rumple is not one to leave things to chance -- if there was even the slightest chance that Zelena might survive, he would have taken care of it.

[Rumsy4]

It's all about the pendant. It's the only reason her life force was able to escape. For all we know, becoming corporal after "death" is part of its powers.

That makes the pendant even more powerful than the Dark One's Dagger. Price of magic? Who cares?

[KingOfHearts]

 

That makes the pendant even more powerful than the Dark One's Dagger. Price of magic? Who cares?

Well, the Dagger was able to keep Rumple alive as well. It sent him to the Dark One's vault after "death". There is a lack of worldbuilding here that again tosses everything up in the air. A&E don't want to develop rules or mechanics for this stuff because they're afraid they won't be able to pull whatever they want out of a hat. I found it strange that Zelena never even mentioned the pendant in her long explanation.

Edited April 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mitch]

I agree, how odd for her not to metion the pendant..thought I would like it if she was permanetly depowered and had to manipulate and use magic things to acheive her aims.

 

Questions:

 

Could Ingrid have iced Marion because she knew she was Zelena and she didn't want another sorceress to mess with....(or to chew the scenery?)

 

What if Zelena is better in the sack then Regina?

 

Why didn't Zelena just cut Robin's head off and send it to Storybrooke with the QOD and Rump. I think my bad Trash TV viewing self would be in heaven to see a cheap plastic special effect head fall out of a box and see Parrilla chew the scenerey with that scene.

 

Edited to add...it just hit me why I love Zelena so much...in the late 80s early 90s there was a villain on As the World Turns who was the typical wife returned from the dead...only this wife, much like Marion/Zelena was bad news. Lilith was a psycho who would send people's body parts back to her ex Duncan and actually had paid off a tribe in Africa to be her guards (dont ask)  She kidnapped Duncan's new wife Shannon, and when Duncan went to get her Lilith pulled out a narled shrunken head of Shannon, "Oh here she is dear, we did some alterations!" LOL. One of the worst story lines on ATWT ever so of course I loved it..but Lilith was crazy, had an english accent, crazy red hair and ridiculous schemes. HMM..perhaps A & E were fans also!

 

See there IS worse writing then Once out there.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Mitch

[Shanna Marie]

Could Ingrid have iced Marion because she knew she was Zelena and she didn't want another sorceress to mess with....(or to chew the scenery?)

That is one thing I've considered that might actually fit the retcon. I've never figured out otherwise why Ingrid would have bothered with Marian. It was a risky move that could have exposed her, since anyone putting two and two together might have considered that ice cream+body freezing soon afterward might have been connected, and it wasn't like freezing the stranger in town was a surefire way to stir up animosity against Elsa when there were already ice walls around the town that had cut off power. Freezing one person who'd never been anywhere near Elsa doesn't seem like it would have been that effective. Why didn't she go for the full Frozen movie treatment and actually freeze the whole town? (I mean, other than budget -- maybe they should have done Frozen for the spring arc that's mostly filmed in a Canadian winter.) A general threat would have done a lot more to rile the townspeople into shunning Elsa than doing an obscure thing to one random person no one but Robin knew.

 

So if Ingrid did deliberately freeze Zelena, at least that means Marian wasn't literally fridged to pave the way for Robin and Regina (though she still was virtually fridged, considering she was retroactively killed).

[KAOS Agent]

So Ingrid, who had no control over her magic before spending 30 years in an urn, knew that Marian was Zelena/powerful magician while Rumpel had not a clue. I don't think so. Ingrid froze Marian because she wanted to set up Elsa. It was just a coincidence that Marian wasn't really Marian. I think she just picked this nice young mother to have maximum impact in terms of the town being angry at Elsa.

 

Where did the clover pendant come from? Was Marian wearing it and Zelena just picked it up? If Marian was wearing it and could glamour herself why not use it to pretend she was a guard? If Marian didn't have it where did Zelena get it from? 

[KingOfHearts]

 

Where did the clover pendant come from? Was Marian wearing it and Zelena just picked it up? If Marian was wearing it and could glamour herself why not use it to pretend she was a guard? If Marian didn't have it where did Zelena get it from?

I believe there were six for each leaf of the clover. Correct me if I'm wrong. Robin had one and Zelena had another.

Edited April 17, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I thought Robin stole the one Zelena was wearing when he was in the Emerald City Throne Room?  I don't remember them saying there were six of them.  Though Zelena could very well have owned more than one.

 

So does this episode confirm that Glinda was even more oblivious than previous thought?  What happened with this?

 

GLINDA: Guard it with your life because, in many ways, it now is your life.

You were born with great power, Zelena.
And now now this pendant will harness, protect, and grow that power all of it.
ZELENA: Will it make me stronger?

GLINDA: More than you could possibly imagine. However, the price is, without it, you are powerless.

[Zuleikha]

I believe there were six for each leaf of the clover. Correct me if I'm wrong. Robin had one and Zelena had another.

But Zelena was incorporeal smoke when she went through the time portal. She didn't have anything with her. I can buy that she could create her own clothing, but not that she could create her own leaf of the six leaf clover. So where did it come from? 

 

What happened with this? ... GLINDA: More than you could possibly imagine. However, the price is, without it, you are powerless.

 

I've been trying to remember if Zelena's necklace crumpled when the smoke escaped. If so, maybe her connection to the pendant was broken so she has her magic back, but not her amplified magic. Also, if she gets killed now, she'll just die. If Zelena's necklace is still intact, Zelena shouldn't have had magic in the Enchanted Forest. (and really, a lot of issues are addressed by her not having magic. Rumple couldn't have sensed her if there was no power to be sensed. She couldn't have/wouldn't have stayed in the past if she had to do it without magic. She wouldn't want to take on Regina in Storybrooke without magic, so her best chance for revenge would be Marian impersonation. The writers should have just had her smoke form take possession of Marian's body)

[KingOfHearts]

 

I thought Robin stole the one Zelena was wearing when he was in the Emerald City Throne Room?

Just rewatched the scene. There was a case of six objects all connected together to resemble a clover. Robin stole one.

 

 

But Zelena was incorporeal smoke when she went through the time portal. She didn't have anything with her. I can buy that she could create her own clothing, but not that she could create her own leaf of the six leaf clover. So where did it come from?

This the only hint Zelena gives us... "Imported magic, dear. Never travel between realms without it. You remember the six-leafed clover from Oz, don't you? Quite the effective glamour spell." I don't understand why Marian would have it with her. If she did, you would think she would have used it to escape Regina.

 

 

I've been trying to remember if Zelena's necklace crumpled when the smoke escaped.

Her pendant is kept in Regina's vault. In the flashback where she killed Marian, she was not wearing it. You'd think Zelena's deal with Rumple would be for him to get it back for her.

Edited April 17, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Thanks for checking.  I guess I wasn't paying any attention when Robin was in the Throne Room, LOL.

 

I had forgotten the pendant was still around.  Now we know why I guess.  Though I can just imagine what contrived use it will be for.  Would it power up Emma or Regina's magic too?  Maybe they'll finally need to get around to setting Glinda free so they could use the pendant.

[Zuleikha]

I just rewatched the scene on YouTube because it's been driving me batty to not remember if the Pendant crumpled or not. We have no idea. The smoke pours out of the vault, but we don't see if the Pendant is intact or not. So they still have an option here to explain Zelena having her magic in the Enchanted Forest as saying the pendant gave her one Get Out of Death Free card (consistent with what Glinda said and the way the scene in which Rumple "killed" her was shot) and upon being used, the bond between pendant and her magic was severed.

 

I have a feeling they won't, though, because that's just the way these writers roll. As has been pointed out, they could have used the inconsistency between Robin's story of Marian's death and what we saw to make Marian always be Zelena and absolve Regina of any connection to real Marian's death, but they didn't. When given the option between writing a story that actually makes sense and one that's incoherent, they seem to be going with incoherent as preferable.

 

Also, I peeked at an Outlaw Queen fan thread on an Evil Regal board, and it was just sad seeing how heartbroken they all were by Robin's declaration of love to Marian at the end. The writers managed to make a Robin-centric episode weaken support for Outlaw Queen among people who were still rooting for the ship after the 4A craziness! I wish this is because they don't actually want Outlaw Queen to be end game and are planning for Regina to either choose herself or have a better love interest for her, but presumably the intention is for Regina vs. Zelena, round 2 (because clearly what 4B needs is MORE story crammed into it). I think the writers are just that incompetent to not realize that just as it wasn't romantic for Robin to be completely indifferent to Marian's life in 4A, it's not tragic or romantic for Robin to recommit himself to Marian in 4B. It just makes him look like a fickle a-hole who never really loved Marian or Regina.

[KAOS Agent]

No doubt Robin will rediscover his love for Regina once the Zelena reveal happens and we're all supposed to find that super romantic instead of gross. One would hope Regina would have more respect for herself than to be with this wishy-washy loser who switches his affections so easily and shows such disregard for his past love. It's a bit Emma/Neal/Tamara like isn't it? He loses one and immediately jumps back to the other when one of the women turns out to be someone other than she said she was. 

 

I'm also really strongly squicked out by the consent issues and the idea that now both Zelena and Regina have slept with Robin. What is it with the Mills girls and rape?

[darkestboy]

Okay, first of all, I am glad that Zelena is back into the mix but at the same time, did Marian have to be sacrificed for her to return? Does seem like a massive cop out though.

I got the impression that Roland might have spotted Zelena posing as his mother. I did like the Zelena/Rumple scenes, glad to see someone outsmart him.

Can the writers just team Zelena, Cruella and Maleficent up and have them turn on Rumple as well? That would be nice.

The Author calling Rumple a 'pain in the ass' did make me laugh too.

Robin's backstory was okay enough. I did like his and Will's scenes in Oz a bit more though.

Regina being forced to pick between Emma and Robin - a bit fanservice-ish, isn't it?

Loads of missing/underused characters in this episode too, 7/10

[YaddaYadda]

I think the writers are just that incompetent to not realize that just as it wasn't romantic for Robin to be completely indifferent to Marian's life in 4A, it's not tragic or romantic for Robin to recommit himself to Marian in 4B. It just makes him look like a fickle a-hole who never really loved Marian or Regina.

 

You mean how he just chooses whoever is standing in front of him.  If it was Little John standing there, he would probably have chosen him.  Robin is fickle and wishy-washy.  And he chose to stay with Marian because his ass thought he couldn't get back to Storybrooke.  I was glad Sean had more to do than stand around in this episode, but it did not make me love Robin.  Made me hate him a bit more actually.  It's sad when the opposite is accomplished.

 

Also, because it will never be said enough, poor Marian.

[DeLurker]

Can anyone tell me how Not!Marian got the 6-leaf clover pendant? 

 

Last I knew, Robin stole it in Oz and was going to use it to disguise himself if he came across the Sheriff when he went back to robbing (but only as a means of redistribituting resources).

[Arnella]

 

I could probably live with one story or the other ("Author", or "Snow and Charming Did Something Bad!"), but the two of them seem to cancel each other out, as far as I can see. Everyone seems to be spinning their wheels over nothing. The overall premise of this season just doesn't make any sense.

Emphasis mine.  I wish I could thumbs up 100 times iMonrey.

[Mari]

Can anyone tell me how Not!Marian got the 6-leaf clover pendant? 

Not for sure.  I think we're supposed to assume that NotMarian got it from Marian when she killed her, or stole it from Robin before they left for New York.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why in the world Zelena would not only settle for stealing Regina's subpar boyfriend, but apparently killed his wife first, so she could do it.

 

Since she seems to have known that Marian was Robin's wife and first love, it would have messed with Regina more to have left real Marian alive, since real Marian would have caused just as much disruption--or more--than ZelenaMarian.  While real Marian is causing relationship problems, Zelena could've killed someone else, hidden their body, and taken their place, to get ready for round two.  (Since apparently it's super easy to rebody yourself.)

 

I just cannot find a single angle where this Zelena-is-Marian twist makes any sense whatsoever.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Since she seems to have known that Marian was Robin's wife and first love, it would have messed with Regina more to have left real Marian alive, since real Marian would have caused just as much disruption--or more--than ZelenaMarian.  While real Marian is causing relationship problems, Zelena could've killed someone else, hidden their body, and taken their place, to get ready for round two.  (Since apparently it's super easy to rebody yourself.)

She had to disguise as Marian in order to hitch a ride with Emma and Hook to the future. That being said, there are so many ways she could have messed with Regina in Storybrooke. Since apparently her magic was intact and she could shapeshift whenever she wanted to, why not haunt Regina? Kill Henry? Steal her pendant back? Ransack her vault? With her cover, she could have done so much.

 

Here's another riddle for you: If Zelena's magic was in the pendant, how was she able to disintegrate Marian without it? 

Edited April 18, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Here's another riddle for you: If Zelena's magic was in the pendant, how was she able to disintegrate Marian without it?

 

The pendant is another one of those things though that is a riddle within a riddle.  I thought for sure the pendant was something that was supposed to harness Zelena's magic, let her have better control of it and then 320 happened and I just have no clue what the pendant is supposed to be.  She was born with magic like Emma, Ingrid and Elsa were.  I thought the gloves Rumple gave Ingrid were like the pendant Zelena had.  Emma lost her magic because of a spell, curse, whatever that was supposed to be, but her magic was always part of her so it came back (or whatever).

 

I give up trying to understand magical objects.

[Shanna Marie]

She was born with magic like Emma, Ingrid and Elsa were.  I thought the gloves Rumple gave Ingrid were like the pendant Zelena had.  Emma lost her magic because of a spell, curse, whatever that was supposed to be, but her magic was always part of her so it came back (or whatever).

I was never entirely convinced she was born with magic -- did baby Zelena summon the tornado, or was it a fluke, and being transported between worlds as a newborn by a magical tornado was what gave her magic? They have some wiggle room here.

 

But then we have that inherent magic and the outside world issue. Ingrid was born with magic, supposedly like Emma, since they were magically "sisters." But Ingrid couldn't use magic in our world, and yet Emma could. That bit was vague, since all we saw was the sparking power lines when she arrived in Storybrooke and the flickering lights when Henry was born, but then they sealed the deal in 4A when they showed teen Emma unknowingly using magic on the carnival device. So why does it work for Emma but not Ingrid, and what does this mean for Zelena? They made it sound in this latest episode like she couldn't use magic.

 

As for Emma's power's returning, they made it sound like the curse was undone when Zelena's other magic, like the flying monkeys, was undone, when Regina took her pendant. Emma just refused to try and find it within herself again until it happened accidentally when she was thinking about her family.

 

Though I think we've put more thought into how it all works than the writers have.

[Mari]

She had to disguise as Marian in order to hitch a ride with Emma and Hook to the future.

 

Here's another riddle for you: If Zelena's magic was in the pendant, how was she able to disintegrate Marian without it? 

I know that's what they hinted at, but it doesn't make sense with what we were told happened.  Zelena went through the portal as dust, and followed Hook and Emma around invisibly.  Rumple didn't know she was there, and neither did they. 

 

Why couldn't she go back through the portal the same way she went through the first time?  Bodiless, and then rebodying herself when back in Storybrooke?

 

As for the pendant?  I've got nothing.  Unless someone else comes up with something, add it to the "Retcon to save Robin/Regina" evidence list.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Why couldn't she go back through the portal the same way she went through the first time?  Bodiless, and then rebodying herself when back in Storybrooke?

Maybe she couldn't get inside Rumple's "impenetrable" vault...? But she didn't know they'd be going in there when she killed Marian. So maybe once she got through the portal, she was forced to get her body back? I seriously don't understand.

 

 

As for the pendant?  I've got nothing.  Unless someone else comes up with something, add it to the "Retcon to save Robin/Regina" evidence list.

Glinda: "The price is without it, you are powerless." Did dying reset her maybe? Like the pendant released her life force? Was she just waiting around in limbo until Emma and Hook fell through?

Edited April 18, 2015 by KingOfHearts