S01.E10: By The Pricking Of My Thumbs

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:
 
Jamie hopes the Duke of Sandringham can help remove the price on his head, while Claire works to save an abandoned child.

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into a potential spoiler you should leave now. There is another episode topic for you. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

[Hybiscus]

"No peacocks were harmed during the filming of this episode."

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Matt Debenham's post on the episode: Sleight Of 'Thumbs': Everyone's making grand power plays -- but keep your eye on the smaller moves.

[Dust Bunny]

Loved that whole episode. Great for both book and non-book readers.

 

That first scene was verra nice. I'll leave it at that. 

 

Laoghaire is the worst, but Nell Hudson is great. She's playing Laoghaire with unapologetic strength and agency. 

 

Loved the duel with the MacDonalds. It's nice to see Jamie's fighting abilities. I'm already getting the chills about anticipating what's coming up at the end of the season. Knowing how capable Jamie is will make it all the more intense when he gives his word not to fight or struggle.

 

Casting continues to be brilliant. Simon Callow owns every scene as Sandringham. "Poppycock!" It was a great idea of the writers to get Murtaugh and Sandringham in the same room this season. Should make for a nice payoff in season 2.

 

So we can assume that Murtaugh didn't go with Jamie, Dougal, Angus, and Rupert, right? 

 

I knew it wasn't going to make it into the show, but I would have loved to see the scene between Jamie and Hamish in the stable. It would have introduced Donas, as well. 

 

Bring on next week!

Edited April 12, 2015 by Dust Bunny

[chocolatetruffle]

…Something wicked this way comes.  And in this episode it was coming from about 4 or 5 different directions.  

 

I loved Murtaugh’s face upon seeing Claire in bed.  I literally screamed when Claire slapped the fool out of Leery and called her a child.  So much love for Geillis in this episode.  Lotte Verbeek is doing great work giving the character multiple layers.  The cinematography of Geillis' dance in the woods was unbelievably beautiful.  In fact, the camera work and scenery were very lush throughout.  Simon Callow!  Just love that man. 

 

I totally empathized with Claire when she found that poor dead baby, I know I wouldn’t have been able to let go.  I also liked Claire being reluctant to sign the petition because she knows she could be found out since there would be no record of her being born or having a family.  I'm glad she was finally able to outsmart someone and the duke, no less (the Jacobite gold line was genius) – she is learning how to maneuver in this world.  And "Quiet anger can be verra effective," indeed.

 

I didn’t really buy the Dougal goes crazy scene, mostly because Graham was too much, too over the top (he totally sold that Dougal loved Geillis in the scene with Colum, though).  Loved Angus in the drunk!Dougal scene.  And the way they focused on Claire putting the drugged wine bottle on the table made me think we would see it again, but we didn’t. 

 

Overall it was a decent episode.  I think the narrative held together well, much more linear and concise than in the book.

[CalamityBoPeep]

I think I understand why they felt the need to deviate from the book, as they did here... I suppose it was in an effort to up the tension, since this section of the book has a lot of Jamie's absence and seeking the Duke's help on his own, while Claire waits around for him, then goes off to see Geillis when summoned.  But, man, the way they did it really didn't work for me.

 

Claire's headstrong, and stubborn, yes, and I kind of love that about her, but I was seriously WTF-ing when she's off, in secret, to the Duke's house, and basically blackmailing him.  Did she learn nothing from dealing with Jack Randall and before that, with the English in general in "The Garrison Commander"?  She has got to realize by now that she doesn't really have enough information, and is certainly not in a safe enough position, to be pulling that!  Hell, he could have just pulled a power play and had her taken prisoner right then, to interrogate her (at Jack Randall's leisure, even) to find out what she really knows.  And this gaping hole in the story, this big stupid act, was so freaking unnecessary.  Yes, yes, yes...  tension, episodic tv, yadda, yadda.  But come on, Ron et al., do it well enough that you can't drive a freaking train through the plot hole.

 

I loved the scenes in the book where Jamie's explaining why he left Leoch so suddenly all those years ago, but I get why they wouldn't necessarily be gripping tv. I'm just disappointed they didn't find another way to handle the demands of getting from Point A (Jamie needs an audience with the Duke) to Point Z (Jamie is no where around when Claire is taken.)

 

Still going to watch, of course, but I don't think this was their best episode.

 

<Edited because two clauses beginning with "but" are just too many in one sentence.>

Edited April 12, 2015 by CalamityBoPeep

[CalamityBoPeep]

I also liked Claire being reluctant to sign the petition because she knows she could be found out since there would be no record of her being born or having a family. 

 

 

I saw her reluctance as being related to the idea of putting her signature on a document that might later be found by Rev. Wakefield and Frank.  They had found complaint documents similar to that before, so I wondered if she was afraid to put it out there.  Of course, if that was the case, the temptation might also be to leave her signature as sort of a bread crumb for Frank.  Either way, the idea of formalizing her presence with a document that might conceivably be seen by Frank later, might have given her pause.  There's the marriage license

and the deed handling Lollybroch later

, of course, but she might be able to mentally go along with that, with the justification that there would be no reason Frank would be looking around at Fraser legal documents.

 

 

I didn’t really buy the Dougal goes crazy scene, mostly because Graham was too much, too over the top

 

Yeah, I thought that was way overdone too.  Almost to the point of being mockable. Heh.

Edited April 12, 2015 by CalamityBoPeep

[Nidratime]

Yeah, I thought that was way overdone too.  Almost to the point of being mockable. Heh.

 

 

Oh, I don't know. I think Dougal, in his distress -- and probably in his cups -- was showing the remorse he should feel at wronging his wife who had just died, while he was traipsing across the highlands bedding other women and playing politics.

 

Now, what I want to know is, did Colum have anything to do with Claire being with Geillis just as she's getting arrested -- possibly at his instigation. Was it all Laoghaire? Of course, I can't imagine, in a million years, Colum having anything to do with Laoghaire, but you use whatever instruments you have.

[rainsmom]

I continue to be captivated, loving the changes they've made. I wanted to throttle Claire when she went into town at the end, despite saying she would stay put. My husband said, "Does she spend four books being too dumb to live?"

 

I wasna really sure what to tell him....

[peacefrog]

I loved this episode! It's probably the first one I loved on first viewing. The changes were smart and they still were able to get to the point where Claire and Geillis were arrested.

 

I too also thought that document is going to be shown at some point in the 20th century. I didn't think Claire went to the Duke without Jamie's knowledge, I thought they were playing him by their actions at the dinner at Leoch. It reminded me of how they work a room together in the later books.

 

 I'm a little surprised they had Dougal being that smitten with Geillis. There also were scenes without Claire!

 

My only complaint is that this second half seems to have replaced Claire always saying she will die trying to get home with Jamie saying he wants to return to Lallybroch, over and over. 

[WatchrTina]

 

So we can assume that Murtaugh didn't go with Jamie, Dougal, Angus, and Rupert, right?

That was not addressed.  Personally, I think that wherever Jamie goes, Murtagh is going.  Colum can't order Murtagh to do anything -- he's not a MacKenzie and didn't even give an oath of obedience the way Jamie did.  I predict it will be Olde Alec who makes the mad dash to Dougal's place to fetch Jamie back in time for the trial.

 

I'm not up to a long analysis tonight.  I tried live-tweeting the episode.  That's exhausting.  Also, whisky was involved.  I'll just say:

1.  I loved the opening scene.  'Nuf said.  But Murtagh, damn, your timing sucks.

2.  The looks passing around that hall while Arthur lies dead were truly eloquent.

3.  Jamie/Sam can totally swashbuckle.

4. I think my favorite line was when Colum says to Dougal "I'm not ASKING you to do anything ye half-wit.  I'm ORDERING you."

5. I think my favorite non-line was the "verra effective" quiet anger Claire gives Jamie while repeatedly stabbing him with a needle.

 

 

There also were scenes without Claire!

Yes!  I noticed that too. There were lots of them (Colum's office, the duel, Jamie & Murtagh's first visit to the Duke).  So it looks like from here on out we're going to continue to see Jamie's point of view, even if his voice-over duties were a one-time thing.

Edited April 12, 2015 by WatchrTina

[MedievalGirl]

I would have liked to see the butterfly dream. ;)

[bluebonnet]

 

 

I didn’t really buy the Dougal goes crazy scene, mostly because Graham was too much, too over the top (he totally sold that Dougal loved Geillis in the scene with Colum, though).  Loved Angus in the drunk!Dougal scene.  And the way they focused on Claire putting the drugged wine bottle on the table made me think we would see it again, but we didn’t. 

 

After the eye lock between Geillis and Duncan at the dinner and then Geillis' overacting, it seems like Duncan was doing his own version of over playing this as a poor attempt to cover his tracks with Geillis and/or to help explain how his madness over his poor dear wife's death led him so soon to another woman's bed.  The win bottle might come back into play during the witch trial.  Rupert or Angus or someone could present it as evidence that witchy Claire has the powers to put people to sleep.  

 

Was that Thomas who handed off the note?  

 

Really enjoyed the changes.  I always enjoy the show but there were moments where I felt I was on the edge of my seat or just wide eyed wondering how such and such scene was going to play out.  I like what they've done with Laoghaire, and I like how it came so close to the dead baby scene with Jamie mentioning that some of these people have never been more than a day's walk away from where they were born.  Laoghaire is surely one of those people and I think they've set her up well to be both antagonist while gaining the audience's sympathy.  She's just so ignorant and pitiful that we can't help but feel sorry for her even though we hate that she's made this plan to have Claire tried for witchcraft.  We all know how devastated she's going to feel when Jamie takes Claire and runs away with her.  

[NoNeinNyet]

So, we got reference to the promise that they could withhold things from one another as long as they didn't all out lie. Guess we can take that as show canon now. I'm a little sad that we lost Jamie saying that directly in the aired show. It says so much about his character and intelligence.

 

Loved pretty much everything else about the episode. It was really well paced.

[Glaze Crazy]

I would have liked to see the butterfly dream. ;)

 

You did. Or did you miss the 1st scene? ;-) (Oh, you probably mean like real dream butterflies? Maybe they went the way of the leaches.)

 

I didn't listen to the podcast for last week so I don't know if Ron & Co mentioned this about the title sequences but it looks like they've switched to live action displays of everyday or common tasks like putting on the kilt last week or loading a pistol this week.  I like it.

 

So, snark first.  How did Claire miss that huge Georgian house on the golf course next door to Castle Leoch?  Who lives there when the Duke of Sandringham isn't in residence?  Is it occupied by another English family, or is it some Scot sympathetic to King George who's richer than Colum and can afford framed pictures, upholstered furniture, carpets, glass windows and paint on the lovely plastered walls?  Is it available to let for self catering holidays?  It's obviously close since not only did Claire pop in for tea and a chat with the Duke, but Jamie and Murtagh passing the MacDonalds on the steps means it's pretty convenient to several clan seats, especially if the Duke is gambling at cards in some social setting with them.  Kudos to the production team for those long loving shots of the house a la Downton Abbey. 

 

I'm guessing since Claire can now take a horse from the stable to go visiting, being married has really freed her up from her babysitters.  That will help when she doesn't come back from Gellis' house in a reasonable amount of time, cause you know Laoghaire isn't going to tell anyone she's been arrested.  It's going to be up to Alec to go find out what happened to his horse.  Or did Murtagh stay behind, since I didn't see him ride off with Dougal and Jamie.  Also, where was Murtagh when Jamie was slashing his way out of a brawl with 3 MacDonalds?  I'm surprised he wasn't there to back Jamie up, since you know, it was a duel and all.  I laughed at all the men laying on the lawn bleeding while the Duke just scampers off to the house to get the heck away from the carnage.

 

I liked the interaction of Claire and poor clueless Laoghaire.  I'm in the "feeling sorry for her" camp since Jamie never emphasized directly to her he was happy to be married.  I also liked the mention of the sheltered lives of the local crofters and it really does inform us to what's going on inside Laoghaire's little blond head.  She doesn't have any idea how to play the game, so using spells, charms and downright misdirection and treachery are the only tools in her kit, at her age.  It also adds to why she's so off in later books.  She's only had limited experiences and she is a woman of her time so she wouldn't know any different.  Claire will always have the benefit of experiences beyond any to be had in the 1700's.  Laoghaire's use of the line "past bearing" had me expecting Jessica Lange to pop out with "not past bearing, not past bearing!" /Rob Roy

 

Claire is sure quick to slap someone isn't she?  She's landed one on Jamie and now Laoghaire, in anger.  I'm keeping that in context for her fiery character, but she's got a pretty quick snapping point.

 

Lots of mention and use of potions, charms and poisons in this episode which is a great setup for the upcoming drama.  And LOL at Rupert using the word "sedative" when only a few episodes ago Angus was "is that Spanish?"  The fact that the MacKenzies know Claire has ways of knocking someone out isn't a concern to them?  She just rendered Dougal unconscious.  It's interesting that her skills, and Geillis', are both lauded and feared, depending on where someone is standing.

 

I like the expanded use of Ned Gowan as legal council for every matter.  He's quick to write stuff up for the record.  I hadn't thought of why Claire hesitated to sign the complaint so thanks above for sharing the idea that her signature on a document mentioning Randall might cross paths with Frank in the future.  Of course, just her first and middle name shouldn't necessarily raise any flags with Frank as is, since he has no way of knowing what happened to her right now.  I could see it come into play in a future season though.

 

Really liked the visuals cutting Geillis dancing within the fires with the women at Craig na Dun.  She seemed pretty casual about Claire seeing her though, and spilling all the other stuff, since she is on pretty shaky ground herself.  So are we to think Geillis was able to get to Moira and poison her somehow?  Dougal proclaiming to Colum that he's going to marry Geillis was new, but I liked that Colum wasn't having any of it and sent him home to bury his wife.

 

This was a good episode, lots happened, lots was learned, and the story is moving forward.  The only thing I missed from the book was Jamie's regaling the dining hall with his misadventures with the Duke when he was 16, but it's a minor thing and clearly wouldn't have fit anywhere in how this episode played out.  They were pretty clear in several places that the Duke prefers men, including stroking Jamie's face and saying he was the best of both, fighter and decorative.

[The Ravens Three]

I think this episode I spent a lot of time trying to compare the book verses the show, to my detriment. I need to rewatch it and not compare what I read to what I'm watching. I know that this part of the book is where the exposition hits the fan and I know that all these sequences really are just a way for Jamie and Claire to lay their cards on the table which is Claire telling Jamie the truth about where she's from and then Jamie taking her to Lallybroch and it's interesting to see how they have to edit for time and pacing. I'm so excited to see Claire tell Jaime the truth that's the part that I'm looking forward to. Also Sam Heughan is so hot when he sword fights.

[tcay]

Based on the conversations Jamie had with Colum, and the pointed remark Colum made about leaving Claire at the castle while Jamie accompanies Dougal: Jamie is going to believe Colum orchestrated the whole witch trial on his own, right? So they're building in plausible deniability for Jamie in season three. And I totally winced when Laoghaire told Claire that Jamie will be hers someday. 

 

The Duke was great, and I have a feeling he outplayed Claire in some long game that Claire doesn't even know they're playing. I never fully understood the Duke's involvement in the books, so I'm interested to see if the Duke is more of an opportunist or a diabolical schemer. 

[absnow54]

That was not addressed.  Personally, I think that wherever Jamie goes, Murtagh is going.

True, but I feel like after the whole Fort William incident, Jamie isn't going to leave the B-team to keep an eye on Claire. Jamie is Murtagh's primary concern, but if Jamie told him to stay, I imagine he would. I can't remember, did he go on the hunt in the books? Or did he stay behind?

[WatchrTina]

 

Was that Thomas who handed off the note?

Yes, I think it was.  And since both he and Laoghaire are grandchildren of Mrs. Fitz, that means the two of them are cousins. That's yet another strike against Laoghaire; involving her own wee cousin -- one who owes his life to Claire -- in her plotting.

 

I enjoyed this episode.  Parts of it were excellent.  But there ARE some plot-holes in it.  Or at least moments that made me go huh?  It seems to me that those lapses in logic were required by plot necessity or the desire for some striking visuals.

 

1. Claire wandering around alone in the woods in the pre-dawn hours makes NO sense.  The conversation with Geillis ("Hey, why did you sell Laoghaire an ill-wish to use against me?") was not urgent, wandering around in the dark in the woods IS dangerous, and how on earth did she slip away from her attentive young husband to go wandering in the first place?  Jamie's the type to spring out of bed with a dirk in his hand when Claire has a nightmare.  Is it really credible that she could get up, dress (a 20-minute process) and slip out of the house in the pre-dawn hours without him waking and objecting?  I presume that the show-runners wanted to juxtapose the shots of Geillis dancing with those of the 1945 Caigh Na Dun dancers and I agree it was beautiful.  I understand that the scene in the woods accomplished a lot of necessary tasks (showed that Geillis really is a "witch", showed that she is pregnant, revealed her affair withe Dougal, and put her and Claire in the woods together for the scene with the changeling.)  But I still kept thinking "WTF Claire!  Why are you wandering in the woods in the dark on such thin motivation?"

 

2. Some people have already said that Dougal's drunken raging over the death of a wife he hardly every saw was overblown.  I have mixed feelings about that one.  I've witnessed men who, after ignoring their mother for years, suddenly get all sentimental when death is imminent, throwing their weight (and their guilt) around and generally getting in the way of their sisters, to whom they left the care-giving for years.  Saw it with my grandmother; heard about the same phenomenon with a friend's grandmother.  So if Dougal was feeling guilty about having left Maura behind all these years while he went about chasing women and breeding bastards, that makes his raging somewhat credible.  But going after his own men with a sword?  That seems a bit much.

 

3. Claire getting herself to the Duke's house and back without anyone else knowing does seem unlikely.  I can well imagine that she has the freedom to borrow a horse but how did she know where to go?  And in a small world like Castle Leoch it seems clear to me that everyone would know everyone else's business and would gossip about comings and goings.  I like the idea that someone proposed, which is that Jamie DOES know that Claire when to the Duke first -- that they were in cahoots.  But that's not how it was played (I believe Jamie when he "introduces" his wife to the duke) and I so I just think it's a plot weakness we have to ignore.

 

4. As someone above pointed out -- where the hell was Murtagh when Jamie was acting as second at a duel?  That does not strike me as the sort of thing he'd let Jamie do on his own -- especially given what he told the duke about the other clan (MacDonalds?) and how anything involving them frequently comes to bloodshed.  I presume the show runners wanted a swashbuckling 3-against-1 fight so Murtagh is conveniently absent, but it rings false to me.

 

5. In the book Claire is astounded that Geillis chooses to poison her husband at the hall with witnesses all around her.  Claire concludes she does it because Arthur discovers Geillis' pregnancy right before the banquet (we see his shocked reaction in the book) and she (Geillis) believes he is likely to denounce her at any moment.  In the show, Geills has no such motivation.  She could have easily poisoned him at home in privacy and then told everyone she woke up next to him, after he died in his sleep.  So killing him at the banquet is faithful to the books, but doesn't really make sense in the context of the TV plot.

 

6. I'm struggling with the whole bit about filing a complaint against Black Jack and then, after getting him discredited, go to trial to prove Jamie is innocent.  What if he's found guilty anyway?  I find it hard to believe that Highlanders would risk so much on the idea that they could get justice in an English court.  I presume it's being done for reasons that will be revealed later in the season but for now it makes my skin crawl -- especially since anyone who goes to Oxfordshire to check out the background of the "high-born lady" making the complaint is going to discover that no one there has ever heard of her or her late husband.  Yeah, I agree with whoever suggested that Claire's signature on that paper is going to come into play when Claire goes back to the future. That's the only rationale I can see for this plot device.

 

ETA: fixed the typo above spotted by GHScorpiosRule.  Dougal and Colum are indeed different people and Colum would never go into a drunken rage like Dougal did.  It's why they picked HIM to the the Laird, ye ken?

Edited April 13, 2015 by WatchrTina

[nodorothyparker]

Parts of this were really great and parts just left me scratching my head.

 

The whole sequence of Moira and then Arthur dying, with all the knowing looks and arched eyebrows flying around the great hall and Colum quickly putting two and two together, was made of win.  It tightened up the entire book storyline and gave it a sense of urgency the book never quite managed.  I did find the idea that Dougal was truly in love with Geillis or that she would honestly believe he was in love with her a bit of a hard sell and felt like they came entirely out of the blue, knowing how those storylines turn out and how Dougal has been sniffing around Claire and will continue to not so far into the future.  I do like how much more Colum is in involved and in the know here though.  I also love how completely over the entire lot of them he is by the end of the episode.  It ain't easy being laird with the likes of these guys running around.

 

How was Claire getting around to the woods in the middle of the night or the duke's palatial estate by herself without anyone noticing?  I realize she has more freedom of movement these days as a married woman without Tweedledee and Tweedledum shadowing her, but wasn't it especially convenient that the duke's house is apparently right up the road?  That might have been handy knowledge when she first arrived at Castle Leoch and was trying to escape every other day.  I also thought the same thing as everyone else about Claire signing the complaint.  The McKenzies didn't seem to question it all that much a "highborn lady" turning up by herself in the Highlands, but the English very well might and would certainly be in a better position to know whether such a person even existed in the first place.

 

I'm one who really didn't like the Claire-Laoghaire confrontation.   It felt so beneath Claire, who's a grown woman who's already won vs. a fawning teenage girl with a monster unrequited crush, and only validated Laoghaire's delusions that she's even a competitor in the sweepstakes for Jamie.  But Claire was doing an awful lot of marching around this episode trying to dictate how things were going to be, only one episode after she was making a lot of promises about how she wouldn't be behaving so rashly anymore.

 

Geillis dancing in the moonlight was really beautiful.  Also loved the into and poor Murtaugh being all kinds of awkward once he realized what he had walked into the tail end of.

Edited April 12, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[chocolatetruffle]

Yes, that was wee Thomas who gave Claire the note.  He's Mrs. Fitz's nephew by the way ( I love the way he calls her "auntie"), her sister's child.  

 

My problem with the drunk grief scene was not that I didn't believe Dougal felt guilt, I didn't believe the actor was emotionally grounded in the scene.  Therefore, I didn't believe in the reality of the character's situation, whatever it was Dougal was supposed to be feeling.  It's a minor thing, as GM is usually so good at portraying Dougal's inner life.

 

 

How did Claire miss that huge Georgian house on the golf course next door to Castle Leoch?  Who lives there when the Duke of Sandringham isn't in residence?

 

LOL!. I know, right.  This must be the King's summer residence or something, because that mansion was unbelievable.  

 

I also wondered where Murtaugh was during the duel - that just screamed plot device to me so that only Jamie would get the fallout from Colum's wrath.  Can I just say how much I loved Colum in this episode.  I mean, being Laird is a tough job with the likes of Dougal and Jamie creating havoc every 5 minutes.  He likely banished them both so he could get a few days of rest, before he ends up having a stroke.  Most likely, Murtaugh stayed behind to keep an eye on Claire.

 

ETA: or what nodorothyparker said.

Edited April 12, 2015 by chocolatetruffle

[AD55]

Also loved the into and poor Murtaugh being all kinds of awkward once he realized what he had walked into the tail end of.

 

 

Not the tail end for Jamie, alas. I loved the postcoital conversation between Claire, Jamie, and Murtagh. It was one of the brief but packed scenes this show does well. Exposition about the Duke and Jamie's past association (or lack thereof), an instance of Claire's mysterious knowledge of political machinations, and more evidence of Jamie's transtion to adulthood. I loved Sam's and Duncan's expressions when he tells Murtagh that they will both honor Jamie's promise to Claire. They spoke volumes about how their relationship is shifting now that Jamie is an adult. I was one who thought that the showrunners had waited too long to make it clear why Claire would choose Jamie over Frank. He didn't seem manly or mature enough for her. But last week and this we've seen him take the lead several times. His interactions with Colum clearly show that he's a man with strong opinions who is not afraid to express them, at the same time he is wise enough to pick his battles.

 

I also thought the showrunners had left too many plot elements for the last 8 episodes. Seeing how much they packed into the last two episodes without making them seem rushed has put my mind at ease.

 

One thing I've admired is the way Moore and the other writers have filled some of the plot holes of the novel, but they more than tipped the scales the other way with this episode. As WatchrTina and others pointed out, it was filled with things that make you go hmmm. I really liked the episode, so I did a lot of hand waving over all the things that beggared belief

 

 

    Claire is sure quick to slap someone isn't she?

 

 

Yeah, 1740s Claire has a way shorter fuse than 1940s Claire. When Frank accuses her of being unfaithful, she looks only slightly put out and forgives him right away -- there was no ranty, "Do you really think that while I was tending wounded solders at the front I climbed on top of one occasionally?" I assume the contrast is to show that Claire's passions are much more aroused by anything to do with Jamie than with Frank. It's hard to imagine her smacking someone who had a crush on Frank, ill wish or no. I also feel kind of bad for Laoghaire. For all she knows, tapping your heels together three times makes the person you care about run like hell into the arms of another. I'd be pissed, too.

 

   

In the book Claire is astounded that Geillis chooses to poison her husband at the hall with witnesses all around her.  Claire concludes she does it because Arthur discovers Geillis' pregnancy right before the banquet (we see his shocked reaction in the book) and she (Geillis) believes he is likely to denounce her at any moment.  In the show, Geills has no such motivation.  She could have easily poisoned him at home in privacy and then told everyone she woke up next to him, after he died in his sleep.  So killing him at the banquet is faithful to the books, but doesn't really make sense in the context of the TV plot.

 

 

I thought showing Arthur with stomach problems earlier in the episode was to remind us of his gastrointestinal crisis in episode 3 and suggest that Geilis has been poisoning him gradually so that it won't look like murder. I didn't think she specifically planned to have him die at the banquet.

 

I'm not as close to the books as others, but does it seem odd that Jamie keeps talking excitedly about returning to Lollybrach? My recollection is that it's only after the crisis at the stones that he decides he has the courage to go back home. Up until that time, he had pretty much made up his mind that he would never be able to face Jenny.

[WatchrTina]

 

I did find the idea that Dougal was truly in love with Geillis or that she would honestly believe he was in love with her a bit of a hard sell

My fan-wank on that one is that Dougal and Geillis have bonded over their shared Jacobitism.  I'm mean Geillis actually time-traveled for the sole purpose of aiding Bonnie Prince Charlie!  The woman is committed (and should possibly BE committed -- to an asylum.)  We learn in the book that she's been skimming money from Arthur for YEARS and (I presumed) giving it to Dougal to pass on to the Duke and thence on to James-the-Pretender and his son Charlie.  So I've no doubt that Dougal has very very strong feelings for Geillis and their shared passion for the cause just spilled over into regular old passion.  Remember too that book Dougal has only daughters.  He can't claim his son (Hamish) and I suspect Dougal would really like a son to call his own, so the knowledge that Geillis is carrying his child (and is young enough to carry more) contributes to his wanting to be true to her.

 

 

I also feel kind of bad for Laoghaire. For all she knows, tapping your heels together three times makes the person you care about run like hell into the arms of another.

I'm afraid that's exactly what she's going to claim at the trial.

 

 

I thought showing Arthur with stomach problems earlier in the episode was to remind us of his gastrointestinal crisis in episode 3 and suggest that Geilis has been poisoning him gradually so that it won't look like murder. I didn't think she specifically planned to have him die at the banquet.

In the book she is poisoning him gradually but switches to fast-acting cyanide (made from almond pits) to finish the deed in a rush.  I think TVClaire recognizes the distinctive odor on Arthur's breath (and in the bottle at the end of the episode) so I think TVGeillis also used cyanide and meant for him to die at the banquet.

 

ETA:  Why do people in Outlander never say the key thing that needs to be said? When Claire was urging Geillis to flee and Geillis was saying "Dougal will protect us" that would have been a good time for Claire to say "Your baby-daddy has been banished.  His ass is GONE.  Elvis has left the building.  You are totes on your own and Colum is PISSED.  Start packing you ignorant misguided slut!"

Edited April 12, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Nidratime]

My fan-wank on that one is that Dougal and Geillis have bonded over their shared Jacobitism.  I'm mean Geillis actually time-traveled for the sole purpose of aiding Bonnie Prince Charlie!  The woman is committed (and should possibly BE committed -- to an asylum.)  We learn in the book that she's been skimming money from Arthur for YEARS and (I presumed) giving it to Dougal to pass on to the Duke and thence on to James-the-Pretender and his son Charlie.  So I've no doubt that Dougal has very very strong feelings for Geillis and their shared passion for the cause just spilled over into regular old passion.  Remember too that book Dougal has only daughters.  He can't claim his son (Hamish) and I suspect Dougal would really like a son to call his own, so the knowledge that Geillis is carrying his child (and is young enough to carry more) contributes to his wanting to be true to her.

 

 

Geillis and Dougal's shared Jacobite sympathies is a big part of their relationship and their passion. It might even be a part of the thrill of their illicit relationship. If Dougal is willing to sneak around behind his own brother and *leader's* back to support the Stuart claim to the throne, putting his clan's safety in jeopardy, I can't see why he wouldn't be equally inclined to put his marriage on the line as well to bed a like-minded, good-looking "patriot." Plus, if Geillis had arrived on the scene to find that Dougal was not married, I think she would never have married Arthur Duncan, but instead, set her sites on Dougal, as she obviously has now.

[ulkis]

I think I understand why they felt the need to deviate from the book, as they did here... I suppose it was in an effort to up the tension, since this section of the book has a lot of Jamie's absence and seeking the Duke's help on his own, while Claire waits around for him, then goes off to see Geillis when summoned.  But, man, the way they did it really didn't work for me.

 

Claire's headstrong, and stubborn, yes, and I kind of love that about her, but I was seriously WTF-ing when she's off, in secret, to the Duke's house, and basically blackmailing him.

 

I wasn't a fan of her slapping Leoghaire . . . . does she do that in the book? first Jamie, now Leoghaire, it's a little more than cliche. Is she really so insulted by a 16 year old saying Jamie has to get drunk before he has sex with her that she feels the need to slap her?

 

Otherwise I enjoyed the episode. It was weird seeing Jamie wear pants. Or breeches, or what have you. Weird, but enjoyable!

[Nidratime]

Otherwise I enjoyed the episode. It was weird seeing Jamie wear pants. Or breeches, or what have you. Weird, but enjoyable!

 

 

Well, we know Sandringham has a "thing" for Jamie. So, since he's not of like orientation and doesn't want to encourage the Duke, I think Jamie was just being prudent, so to speak.

[WatchrTina]

 

Is she really so insulted by a 16 year old saying Jamie has to get drunk before he has sex with her that she feels the need to slap her?

Yeah, she would have been much more effective with a smug look and a quiet "You're wrong about that as well."  Compare Claire's reaction to that of Jamie when the MacDonalds are hurling insults at him and the Duke.  Their jibes don't touch him because they are wholly untrue and besides he's got sexy-times with his new wife the look forward to and so who cares what these fools say.  

 

Jamie's in a really happy place when those guys insult him.  He's reconciled with Claire, stopped the feud between Colum and Dougal, and has completed his "back-washing" to earn him the Duke's co-operation in his plan to clear his name.  Those insults can't touch him.  

 

Claire's not quite in the same happy place.  She's reconciled with Jamie but probably still reeling from the near-miss with Frank at the stones (and, you know, near-rapes and introduction to 18th century corporal punishment).  She's worried about having signed that petition (what if it reveals her lie about being a widow from Oxfordshire?) and she's still stuck in the 1740's.  She less able to suffer Laoghaire's insults with equanimity.  So I forgive her.  But that half-assed sorrynotsorry apology she offered made me laugh.

 

 

I think Jamie was just being prudent, so to speak.

That actually makes perfect sense for why Jamie wore breeks to the meeting with the Duke!  But why was he wearing them again when he rode off?

Edited April 12, 2015 by WatchrTina

[AD55]

 

In the book she is poisoning him gradually but switches to fast-acting cyanide (made from almond pits) to finish the deed in a rush.  I think TVClaire recognizes the distinctive odor on Arthur's breath (and in the bottle at the end of the episode) so I think TVGeillis also used cyanide and meant for him to die at the banquet.

 

Okay, thanks. My understanding of poison is woefully inadequate. I thought maybe you could dole out cyanide in small doses like whatever Claude Rains's mother uses on Ingrid Bergman in Notorious.

 

 

I'm afraid that's exactly what she's going to claim at the trial.

 

Right -- my point was mainly that it would be easy for Laoghaire to convince herself that Claire really is a witch so that having her tried as one is for the benefit of the community and not just herself. If Jamie can be excused for the beating on the basis of historical context, then it's possible to make the same argument for Laoghaire, especially since she's a bit of a dim bulb and her powers of introspection are nonexistent. I may be reiterating a point first-person Claire makes in the book -- as I said, it's been quite a while since I read it.

 

ETA. I don't mean to let Laoghaire off the hook with the historical context argument. Accusing someone of witchcraft when you've been casting spells yourself is pretty sleazy.

Edited April 12, 2015 by AD55

[WatchrTina]

 

I thought maybe you could dole out cyanide in small doses like whatever Claude Rains's mother uses on Ingrid Bergman in Notorious.

All I know about poison I learned from movies.  Super spies keeps cyanide capsules secreted in false teeth so that they can crunch down on them and die quickly, thereby avoiding interrogation and torture.

 

For small-dose prolonged poisoning that looks like natural causes, I think arsenic is the move-poison-of-choice.  And probably what BookGeillis was using.

 

ETA: I've had another thought about Claire slapping Laoghaire.  Book!Claire is genuinely surprised by the strong feelings of jealousy she experiences when she suspects Jamie of having snuck off to see Laoghaire when they first return to Leoch.  I wonder if that slap from TV!Claire is the show-runners' way of signaling that TV!Claire is surprised by the strong feelings of jealousy that Laoghaire's taunts awaken in her.

 

And for all I wrote about Jamie's equanimity in the face of taunts from the MacDonalds, they do provoke him to a "Yo mama" taunt that, based on the MacDonalds' reaction, was something akin to a nuclear option in the time-honored tradition of insult-swapping.

Edited April 12, 2015 by WatchrTina

[nodorothyparker]

I did find the show duke a lot more entertaining than I remember him in the book.  I don't know how much of that has to do with the actual character/actor and how much of it has to do with the show mercifully dialing back all the book "The duke likes to corner and bugger unconsenting boys. Isn't that hilarious?  Ha Ha!" to a few random comments from our guys and trash talking from the McDonalds.  He was definitely very wily.

 

I have no quibble with the idea that Geillis and Dougal may have connected or even found mutual passion over their support for the Stuarts.  I just found the declarations of it being TWOO LUV on both sides to feel oddly jarring, given Dougal's completely coming unglued over the unseen Moira's death (which I still don't know how I feel about that) and that Geillis has been shown to be a very savvy practical woman if one who maybe should have been a little less gleefully amused about the local populace thinking she was a witch. In the book, she's incredulous and bemused by the idea that Claire really does love Jamie, remarking "So it is possible then."   So it's more than a little odd for me to see the character here as someone completely given over to romantic notions and especially about Dougal of all people.

Edited April 12, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[justmehere]

I was going to say how I don't think Laoghaire is any kind of innocent with the way she offered herself by the stream and the insult she threw at Claire about "plowing her field." Along with plotting Claire's arrest and having Tammas deliver the note rather than doing it herself, she comes across as quite shrewd and as someone who can put on innocence when it suits her. But now I'm rethinking. There are moments when she seems very genuine -- her wish for Jamie to love her; giving the apron to her grandmother -- but I think she's witnessed and overheard a lot about how women survive, and so far she has simply been repeating behavior... even by the stream. Plotting against Claire is different though, crossing into deliberate ill intent.

 

Re: Dougal and Geillis -- this is a very small thing: In the commentary for The Gathering, Terry Dresbach pointed out the brooch (arisaid clasp?) that Geillis is wearing as an eye that's supposed to represent Bonnie Prince Charlie. I thought I spotted it during her midnight ritual as well. Not that the general public would be aware of the significance, but it does reflect her Jacobite sympathies. It's been pretty subtle, but there have been a few clues about their connection.

 

Re: Dougal's drunken display... I took it as an overblown act for public consumption, much like Geillis's. He sure got over it in a hurry. I did like the line re: Maura that: "Not even a blind man would find her bonny."

 

I liked seeing Jamie in the breeches. It was odd, though, to think: "Wow, he's wearing pants!" and note how good it looked. Heh.

 

Agree with everyone that Simon Callow is perfect as the Duke. Always loved him.

 

ETA: I've had another thought about Claire slapping Laoghaire.  Book!Claire is genuinely surprised by the strong feelings of jealousy she experiences when she suspects Jamie of having snuck off to see Laoghaire when they first return to Leoch.  I wonder if that slap from TV!Claire is the show-runners' way of signaling that TV!Claire is surprised by the strong feelings of jealousy that Laoghaire's taunts awaken in her.

 

 

I like this idea.

Edited April 12, 2015 by justmehere

[tcay]

I think the opening last night was shorthand for Claire and Jamie's new intimacy and happiness, but I do think, because of the way they plotted the first half, we're shortchanged a little on showing Claire's happiness at Castle Leoch. In the books it was made to seem like some time passed between their return and the witch trial, where Claire had a routine as a healer and she enjoyed being a wife. They had normalcy, time even for Jamie to figure out her menstrual cycle, of all things. That lent a lot of credibility to her choice at the stones. 

 

How much time are we meant to think has passed between Claire finding the ill wish and confronting Laoghaire? 

[vesperholly]

I'm a little taken aback that they made Geillis so unlikable. In the book she is the one person who is kind to Claire without suspicion and she earns her friendship. But in the show, she's coming across as a harsh, conniving witch (in both senses of the word). When Claire goes to visit her on the forged note, Geillis was so nasty and obstinate that I wanted Claire to spin on her heel and walk out on her.

[bluebonnet]

One thing that did stand out with Geillis is that she looked properly concerned when Claire was arrested alongside her.  

[basil]

That actually makes perfect sense for why Jamie wore breeks to the meeting with the Duke!  But why was he wearing them again when he rode off?

 

 

Granted, we've seem Jamie ride kilted before, but I can personally attest that riding with breeches is preferable to riding commando in a kilt.

 

It's no contest.

[Starla]

I kept expecting Claire to see Geillis' vaccine scar when she was dancing around half naked, but maybe it was too dark to see.

 

I am curious about the estate where the Duke was staying (Norwood?). It must be on or near MacKenzie land if it is close enough for them to travel back and forth in half a day. I am not very familiar with 18th century Scottish estates but it seemed out of place relative to the surrounding structures and decor.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Starla

[WatchrTina]

 

I am curious about the estate where the Duke was staying (Norwood?). It must be on or near MacKenzie land if it is close enough for them to travel back and forth in half a day.

And I wonder if it is on Mackenzie land.  I always assumed that Leoch was positioned well to the center of Colum's domain.  I thought that was what made Leoch a safe place for Jamie.  If that is true, how is that the MacDonalds have just dropped in on the Duke?  How is it they were able to ride across Mackenzie land unchallenged if they and the Mackenzies are enemies?

 

It's little nits like that that I try not to think too hard about lest they spoil the magic.  The time-lines surrounding Claire's initial "rescue" (where everyone appears to stay awake for 48 hours with no ill effects) and her wedding (where WAY too much happens in one 48 hour period to be credible) are similarly troubling if you think about them too much.

[Petunia846]

I also thought the showrunners had left too many plot elements for the last 8 episodes. Seeing how much they packed into the last two episodes without making them seem rushed has put my mind at ease.

I agree. Maybe it's just because I'm more familiar with the earlier episodes, but compared to 9 and 10 (and even episode 8, actually), they seem so slow. How much time did we take on the whole poisoned kid thing? On setting up the gathering and Claire's great escape plan? I can't decide whether there's actually more plot in these recent episodes or whether it's that they no longer seem to have one unifying, episode-long plot arch. I'm not sure why there is a change, and it's not that I dislike the difference (these episodes actually feel more like the book to me, which I like), it just feels like their season-long pacing is off. This is why I objected to so much Frank earlier. I didn't dislike seeing what Frank was up to and getting to know him better, but there are so many vital things to get covered, we didn't have time to be playing in the Frank sandbox.

 

I'm not as close to the books as others, but does it seem odd that Jamie keeps talking excitedly about returning to Lollybrach? My recollection is that it's only after the crisis at the stones that he decides he has the courage to go back home. Up until that time, he had pretty much made up his mind that he would never be able to face Jenny.

No, not just you, that's been bugging me too. It seems out of character for him, but maybe they'll be playing the return home differently. Who knows anymore?

 

I did not like Jamie in pants, but I guess I'd better get used to it. I did enjoy Claire slapping whatshername, but I wish she hadn't slapped Jamie just one episode earlier. It reminded me of a book I read a few months ago where people were just slapping each other right and left. It was odd. That's kind of a once a season thing, or at least not two episodes back to back.

[AD55]

 

It seems out of character for him, but maybe they'll be playing the return home differently. Who knows anymore?

 

I wouldn't mind that actually. The Jamie-Jenny fight always struck me as contrived. I think I saw an allusion to the fight in one of the interviews, but perhaps it will have a less shaky premise than "I didn't want to come home because I couldn't prevent the rape. Plus, I sort of blame you for it and resent you for naming your kid after me."

 

Am I right in recalling that sometimes Jenny provokes Ian so that he'll have a reason to beat her, thus making him feel manly in spite of having had his leg amputated? If so, I hope they excise that bit as well.

Edited April 13, 2015 by AD55

[GHScorpiosRule]

2. Some people have already said that Colum's drunken raging over the death of a wife he hardly every saw was overblown.

I think you mean Dougal's drunken raging, aye? I, for one, didn't believe it. It just came off as McTavish screaming and throwing things. Could not believe a word about how Maura? Moira? (my CC had it Maura) didn't deserve what happened to her, blah, blah, blah. I couldn't really care, because well, I never saw her or how Dougal treated her, and how he felt or didn't feel about her, though he is a character I don't really like.

 

As for Laoghaire--don't like her, don't feel sorry for her. I don't care that Jamie didn't tell her that he now loves Claire or has feelings for Claire, etc., etc.  I just remember from years ago, when my friends had read this series and were trying to get me to read at least Outlander, that they kept referring to one character as a hosebeast, and gee, guess who they were talking aboot?

[chocolatetruffle]

 

...they kept referring to one character as a hosebeast, and gee, guess who they were talking aboot?

Heeee!  After that smirk in the alleyway as Claire was being hauled away, I have no sympathy for the girl. 

 

I too have noticed the pacing has been incredibly fast during the last two episodes.  I judge by how many scenes I fast forward through on rewatch and there has been only one - Laoghaire at the riverbank.  Whereas, during the first half season's episodes I fast forward through a lot.  In the promos for the second half they have stated that the action really ramps up during the second half.  I suspect that they will keep up the pace until Lallybroch and then give us a brief respite.  That would be consistent with the action in the book.

[ulkis]

I agree. Maybe it's just because I'm more familiar with the earlier episodes, but compared to 9 and 10 (and even episode 8, actually), they seem so slow. How much time did we take on the whole poisoned kid thing? On setting up the gathering and Claire's great escape plan? I can't decide whether there's actually more plot in these recent episodes or whether it's that they no longer seem to have one unifying, episode-long plot arch. I'm not sure why there is a change, and it's not that I dislike the difference (these episodes actually feel more like the book to me, which I like), it just feels like their season-long pacing is off. This is why I objected to so much Frank earlier. I didn't dislike seeing what Frank was up to and getting to know him better, but there are so many vital things to get covered, we didn't have time to be playing in the Frank sandbox.

 

Or Geordie dying in episode 4. I was looking at the clock with that scene. That was the only really off moment in the first 8 episodes for me.

 

I think they had time to be playing around with Frank - unless they squeeze in book 2 earlier than we think, they will have had 16 hours with which to portray the first book, and longer books have been successfully adapted in less hours, but yeah, these episodes do seem a little more rushed.

[WatchrTina]

 

I don't mean to let Laoghaire off the hook with the historical context argument. Accusing someone of witchcraft when you've been casting spells yourself is pretty sleazy.

Oooh I now have in mind a little off-book diversion I'd like to see.  I'd like Laoghaire to come right out and admit she went to Claire for a love-potion (which of course she now thinks was actually hosebeast-repellent) using that to accuse her during the trial and for the "judges" to say, "Right, thank you, and by the way that'll be a day in the stocks for you for consorting with a witch ye wee hypocritical gomeral."  She can watch Jamie and Claire ride away from her vantage point in the stocks.  That would be brilliant.

Edited April 13, 2015 by WatchrTina

[ElsieH]

Ok, so Colum didn't give Claire the rosary, which sort of saved her at the witch trial in the book. So I wonder how Jamie will save her. I'm sort of glad because the way it went down in the book was a little ridiculous.... I mean who could pull off that lassoing with the rosary like he did?

[chocolatetruffle]

I was reading on another forum and someone noted that during Geillis' dance she burned an object that looked like twigs and cloth bound together and suggested that it was an effigy to symbolize Maura.  Later when relaying the news of Maura's death, Angus says that the fever "burned her up as if consumed by fire."  Very cool! It suggests that Geillis didn't physically kill Maura, but when learning of her death and realizing that the summoning had worked, she took that as a sign to go ahead and off her husband.

[methodwriter85]

 

Jamie's the type to spring out of bed with a dirk in his hand when Claire has a nightmare.

 

Ha! Yeah, it really does seem like Jamie usually doesn't let Claire out of his sight most of the time, except for when we need Claire to get into danger.

 

I just read the book but I didn't remember Claire actually seeing Geillis dance naked in the moonlight- didn't BookClaire not know that Geillis was pregnant until she revealed her belly?

 

I did love the changes they made to the changeling scene- they compressed it in a way that worked better.

 

I do like how they've allowed the show to open up beyond Claire's perspective.

 

I really thought Claire was going to perform heimlich maneuver on Art but then I realized that it wasn't used until the 1970's.

 

Finally...I thought Dougal was over-the-top on purpose.