Lifetime's VC Andrews Movies Topic (Flowers In The Attic, The Dollangangers, The Casteels, etc) - General Discussion

[configdotsys]

On 7/11/2019 at 3:39 PM, Camille said:

I don't think anyone would watch. I loved the Casteel, Dollanganger, and Audrina books, but I couldn't get into anything else. And my friends all said the same thing. For whatever reason, the other series never caught on like the first two.

Oh there's a good reason. I felt the same way:

The only books that were actually written by VC were the Flowers in the Attic series, the first few in the Casteel series and My Sweet Audrina. 

Garden of Shadows, the last in the Flowers series, may have been started by VC, but it was completed by a ghostwriter. 

VC also wrote My Sweet Audrina but the sequel was ghost written.

VC wrote Heaven, Dark Angel, and started Fallen Hearts in the Casteel series. The ghost writer finished Fallen Hearts and wrote Gates of Paradise and Web of Dreams in their entirety. These books are listed as “inspired by VC.”

I thought using her name after she passed was a sham. 

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

The actress who played Kitty was decent for a Lifetime movie.  The guy who played Cal looked like Jess from Gilmore Girls - well, a statutory-rapey version of Jess.

i didn't hate it as much as I thought I would.  They made Fanny more likeable than she was in the book.  And I laughed when she introduced herself to Logan:   My name's Fanny.  As in, butt.

The guy who played Cal does a lot of Hallmark movies. This is making me having trouble seeing him as a villain. (Of course he is a villain preying on a teenage girl and all)

I FINALLY remembered that I have read a book in this series- Gates of Paradise. 

My heart broke for Fanny, being sold off to be raped and enslaved for housework by that creepy Reverend. 

How old is Heaven supposed to be? We’re Fanny and Tom Twins as well? All the older kids looked to be in high school. Kitty and her Mom looked to be the same age. The casting is all over the place!!!!

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

The people's appearances are SO BAFFLING! It's not that I don't understand why this sometimes happens in movies--maybe it doesn't matter as much to the story or maybe an actor just doesn't have the book's look but is so great for the part that no one cares. But this was not a case of that; while the Heaven chick was more or less OK performance-wise, I am having a hard time believing that there wasn't another actress that could have been just as "more or less OK" and have dark hair. (I thought the same thing with My Sweet Audrina, not that they could have created that chick's "chameleon" hair, haha--and while it was a big deal in the book, I don't think it necessarily was as important in and of itself as Heaven's being the one thing that made her not a complete doppelgänger of her mom).

100%. I can forgive other unnecessary gaffes, but the hair color is a major screw-up. At this point in the books, Heaven believed she inherited the dark hair from Luke. It was a symbol of her impoverished background and ties to the much-hated Casteel family. I understand this is Lifetime, and character development isn't a thing, but Heaven's desire to look like her mother and win Luke's love was a theme that ran through practically the entire series. I can't believe the writers just ignored it completely.

[Snow Apple]

28 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

How old is Heaven supposed to be? We’re Fanny and Tom Twins as well? All the older kids looked to be in high school. Kitty and her Mom looked to be the same age. The casting is all over the place!!!!

None of them are twins in the book. The order is Heaven, Tom, Fanny, Keith, and Jane. The youngest two are close in age and Keith adored Jane since the day she was born, but they are not twins.

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

None of them are twins in the book. The order is Heaven, Tom, Fanny, Keith, and Jane. The youngest two are close in age and Keith adored Jane since the day she was born, but they are not twins.

Thank you. I thought the youngest children were twins. 

I do think the actress playing Heaven has a very cute figure, and a pleasant looking face but they could’ve died her hair black!!

[Daisy]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

100%. I can forgive other unnecessary gaffes, but the hair color is a major screw-up. At this point in the books, Heaven believed she inherited the dark hair from Luke. It was a symbol of her impoverished background and ties to the much-hated Casteel family. I understand this is Lifetime, and character development isn't a thing, but Heaven's desire to look like her mother and win Luke's love was a theme that ran through practically the entire series. I can't believe the writers just ignored it completely.

exactly. like. with anything else. you just needed to have.
Black Hair fanny (because Luke loved Fanny) and Logan's wanting the Whore while loving the 'Madonna' (the two of them having black hair was important)

Angel Blonde Leigh (because she was soft, sweet and blonde, and luke adored her). hence. DARK Angel Heaven who looked exactly like her - cept the hair.  (it also Triggers Tony. ditto the black hair on ANNIE). 

Also. still can't find this to watch in Canada. gr.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Daisy

[Kiki777]

3 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

OH! The clothes were confusing. Heaven's clothes looked a little too nice and store-bought sometimes, I thought. I also was confused as to what year it was; I am now assuming the '70s based on everyone's clothes, though Fanny's in the first scene seemed kind of contemporary. But I do covet that suede skirt Heaven was wearing in the "oops, did I showcase my ass to my new dad?" scene.

The people's appearances are SO BAFFLING! It's not that I don't understand why this sometimes happens in movies--maybe it doesn't matter as much to the story or maybe an actor just doesn't have the book's look but is so great for the part that no one cares. But this was not a case of that; while the Heaven chick was more or less OK performance-wise, I am having a hard time believing that there wasn't another actress that could have been just as "more or less OK" and have dark hair. (I thought the same thing with My Sweet Audrina, not that they could have created that chick's "chameleon" hair, haha--and while it was a big deal in 

I always pictured Kitty looking like Reba McIntyre--even before I had ever heard of Reba McIntyre, hahaha!

That is funny - I pictured Kitty to resemble the mom in Married with Children - huge red hair, skin-tight clothes with a belt cinching the waist, tottering around on too-high stiletto heels.

I too found the time period hard to pin down.  I think the 70s?  Tons of wood paneling in Kitty's house, and Cal used a typewriter.  But Cal's hair/beard seemed more like today's style.  I think the book was supposed to be 70s because in Web of Dreams, Leigh referenced music from the 50s.

This movie may not have been great, but I was not expecting greatness.  Next week should be interesting with Brandon Walsh and forbidden half-uncle sex.

And that last sentence is probably the weirdest thing I have ever typed in my life.

[andromeda331]

Yes, that's what's bad about it. The hair colors aren't random. There's a reason for it. Heaven naturally assumes its from Luke, while that's part of the reason Luke hates her, and hints to who her father really is. There's a reason for her and Fanny. Part of Logan's problem (the other of course is he's an asshole). Put a wig on them if you have too. Heaven has dark hair, Angel has blond and Kitty isn't blond. I wish we got to see book Fanny, she was outrageous and there's a reason for it. Its really the only way she gets attention from anyone. Both girls were abused they dealt with it differently. I'm not sure Fanny's rape is the reason for them not making her how she was in the book. This is Lifetime channel and they do even crazier stuff. Its not uncommon for rape victims to go Fanny's route not all of them of course. 

[Steph Sometimes]

I'm so glad I found this forum. I read all these books when I was a teenager and am so confused by this. This was absolutely terrible. I mean it was fun to watch and I'll definitely watch the other 4, but terrible!

So many questions but I think my biggest one was why Heaven looked like Tammi Littlenut from Strangers with Candy.

I couldn't figure when it was supposed to take place either. It seemed all over the place.

[Scarlett45]

9 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I'm so glad I found this forum. I read all these books when I was a teenager and am so confused by this. This was absolutely terrible. I mean it was fun to watch and I'll definitely watch the other 4, but terrible!

So many questions but I think my biggest one was why Heaven looked like Tammi Littlenut from Strangers with Candy.

I couldn't figure when it was supposed to take place either. It seemed all over the place.

To my eye it looked like the early 70s but they were trying to keep it relatable to a modern audience. 

[CountryGirl]

Okay, so I knew it would be bad, but this is a whole other level of suckitude.

Obviously, the hair colors were wrong on pretty everyone as we've discussed for some time, but Heaven's dark hair was iconic and was so much a part of the storyline. Hello, Dark Angel, anyone?

Fanny's hair was reddish as well and it's just so lazy to have people be redheads that shouldn't (Heaven/Fanny) and not have folks with red hair when they should (Sarah/Kitty/Keith/Our Jane/Tom). Leigh's portrait doll shows her to have red hair but we know she's been cast with dark hair. Oh, the irony. 

At minimum, the actress who played her could have worn a wig if she didn't want to dye her red hair black, although my goodness, she was so damn milquetoast.

As was Fanny who was supposed to be such a firecracker. Don't get me started on Fanny's lack of accent.

This is supposed to be small-town West Virginia but nary an accent or twang in earshot. 

Quite the nice, two-story cabin with electricity. It was a two-room shack that didn't get electricity until the end of Dark Angel and that after being torn down. The Casteels are supposed to be the poorest of poor white trash yet you got zero sense of that. 

No Grandpa Toby?

Logan is now the son of a butcher vs a pharmacist? Oh-kay. Although he came off as a douche, so I guess that's one of the few things they got right. 

Kitty is a dental hygienist vs a hairdresser. Cal is a novelist vs a TV repairman. Things that made zero sense to change yet change they did. Where is all the pink? Where are the ceramics? The all white house?

Miss Deale, the sweet, supportive teacher who inspired book Heaven to become a teacher is nowhere in sight and instead, we have this snippy English teacher who quite rightly schooled Heaven when she was trying to one-up her on Romeo & Juliet. 

Luke is supposed to be barely 30 and matinee idol handsome, and the guy they cast is way too old, among other shortcomings.

Having seen Troy's actor, such a disappointment, the guy they cast to play Cal would have been so much better suited.

The sorrow of the siblings, starting with Keith and Our Jane (who were NOT twins), was given such short shrift as was Fanny's eventual rape by Reverend Waysie. 

The infamous Heaven gets bathed by Kitty scenes were all wrong, including the timing. 

Don't get me started on how they completely glossed over Cal's sexual abuse of Heaven and made it into a consensual relationship. 

Tom, with whom Heaven is so close, is barely in this and he's one of the characters I loved the most, especially considering his sad end. 

I mean, honestly, little but the title character's name ties this back to the book and I wasn't expecting much, but certainly something more than this.

Of course, I'll tune in to the rest of the series to see what else they fuck up.

This makes the Dollanger series and its retconn of Bart/Cindy getting married look masterful. 

[Steph Sometimes]

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27 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

This is supposed to be small-town West Virginia but nary an accent or twang in earshot.

The actor playing Logan had some kind of accent that I couldn't figure out though. It wasn't all the time, but certain words (consistency!). I thought he sounded almost Irish in parts.

One last thing - every non-Sarah/Kitty/Gran woman looked too similar. 

[CountryGirl]

32 minutes ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I swear Logan's mom and the teacher were the same person.

[Vivigirl10]

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Regarding the covers that were posted up thread, boy do those bring back childhood memories. 

Thank you to the person who took the time to post those covers.  They evoke such memories and feelings!  Kind of like listening to a meaningful song from your past.  

I tuned in late last night and missed the beginning so I decided record and watch the whole thing later.  I was watching trying to figure out who this benign, plain, light-haired girl was.  The horror when I realized it was Heaven!  I'm only taking comfort in the fact that everyone here is just as outraged.  

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Why the hell did they make Heaven a redhead when her dark hair was practically a character in and of itself?

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Hair color is important to this story.

Her hair is sooo meaningful.  Everyone has a different vision of what the actual human Heaven would look like.  But the one thing everyone envisions the same is her hair.  Because it's just a fact and so much of the story is tied up in it.  And in her beauty.

Who in the world did the casting?   Did they even read the book?  Did they want to try something "new and different"?  Infuriating.  

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

To my eye it looked like the early 70s but they were trying to keep it relatable to a modern audience. 

See that's another part that doesn't make any sense. Majority of the audience is going to be fans of the books. Sure there will be some who never heard of it tuning in but not most of the audience. We wanted it to look 70s because that's when it was set with Leigh's being earlier and Annie's later. Same with the house, hair, etc. Its all these details they didn't even bother with even though the only ones going to be watching are the fans who are going to noticed that. 

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Don't get me started on how they completely glossed over Cal's sexual abuse of Heaven and made it into a consensual relationship. 

Yes. I didn’t read this book, but watching this movie I went “Hell no”. The way they played it, it was as if Cal was her PEER (like the son of the people acting as her guardians), and she was hesitant/nervous but 100% consensual and into him. Cal was a grown ass man and she was a minor under his GUARDIANSHIP for goodness sakes! And then he wanted her to “stay” with him- according to Wikipedia he breaks her heart and spits her out like the predator he was. 

Poor poor Fanny. Sold by her father to be raped by that nasty reverend- do you think his wife was really in the dark or just didn’t care cause she wanted to be a baby thief?

[Daisy]

22 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes. I didn’t read this book, but watching this movie I went “Hell no”. The way they played it, it was as if Cal was her PEER (like the son of the people acting as her guardians), and she was hesitant/nervous but 100% consensual and into him. Cal was a grown ass man and she was a minor under his GUARDIANSHIP for goodness sakes! And then he wanted her to “stay” with him- according to Wikipedia he breaks her heart and spits her out like the predator he was. 

Poor poor Fanny. Sold by her father to be raped by that nasty reverend- do you think his wife was really in the dark or just didn’t care cause she wanted to be a baby thief?

because it's VCA - it wouldn't surprise me if she (Mrs. Wise/Mrs. Rev) planned the whole thing. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Fanny being a brat and jealous of Heaven is a huge part of the series...so making Fanny not be like the book will lessen the impact of the character especially in Gates of paradise 

[Rescue Mama]

Except for the aforementioned hair color, I was most disappointed in the Fanny character.  I kept waiting for her accent but it never came. I wanted to hear a "ya" every so often.  

To whoever said that the actor playing Cal would have been better as Troy, my daughter said the same thing.  Troy looks nothing like he was described in the books.  

Wasn't Rev Wise a big fat guy in the books?  It's been a few years since my last re-read so I'm fuzzy on some details. 

Where was grandpa Toby? 

It sucked but if course I'll watch the rest of them. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes. I didn’t read this book, but watching this movie I went “Hell no”. The way they played it, it was as if Cal was her PEER (like the son of the people acting as her guardians), and she was hesitant/nervous but 100% consensual and into him. Cal was a grown ass man and she was a minor under his GUARDIANSHIP for goodness sakes! And then he wanted her to “stay” with him- according to Wikipedia he breaks her heart and spits her out like the predator he was. 

Poor poor Fanny. Sold by her father to be raped by that nasty reverend- do you think his wife was really in the dark or just didn’t care cause she wanted to be a baby thief?

5 hours ago, Daisy said:

because it's VCA - it wouldn't surprise me if she (Mrs. Wise/Mrs. Rev) planned the whole thing. 

I never believed Mrs. Wise/Mrs. Rev was in the dark. I don't think she really cared as long as she got the baby. The Cal thing I missed when I read it the first time because Kitty was so insane and Cal was so nice. It didn't recognize that he was grooming Heaven until I read it the second time. She did do a good job showing the grooming part. It just made me hate Logan and Luke even more. Logan being all ticked off because how dare Heaven sleep with someone else and not really listening, caring or realizing that Cal was her guardian and it should all be on Cal. Luke of course selling all Heaven and Fanny to rapists. I'm still not convinced Luke didn't sexually abuse Fanny. 

[Daisy]

12 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I never believed Mrs. Wise/Mrs. Rev was in the dark. I don't think she really cared as long as she got the baby. The Cal thing I missed when I read it the first time because Kitty was so insane and Cal was so nice. It didn't recognize that he was grooming Heaven until I read it the second time. She did do a good job showing the grooming part. It just made me hate Logan and Luke even more. Logan being all ticked off because how dare Heaven sleep with someone else and not really listening, caring or realizing that Cal was her guardian and it should all be on Cal. Luke of course selling all Heaven and Fanny to rapists. I'm still not convinced Luke didn't sexually abuse Fanny. 

exactly. 

and I thought that. Luke went to touch Heaven remember, and Gramma Annie stopped that right in its tracks. and I think Fanny insiutated that there was something there. (and she basically did it so Luke would "love" her like he "loved" Heaven

and the thing is though Luke is weird.
he was completely sweet to Leigh
a complete ahole to Sarah and the whole kids (turning into a whoring, child selling, abusive (physically/sexually)) but then
back to a completely good husband with Stacey and father to Drake. 

[andromeda331]

7 minutes ago, Daisy said:

exactly. 

and I thought that. Luke went to touch Heaven remember, and Gramma Annie stopped that right in its tracks. and I think Fanny insiutated that there was something there. (and she basically did it so Luke would "love" her like he "loved" Heaven

and the thing is though Luke is weird.
he was completely sweet to Leigh
a complete ahole to Sarah and the whole kids (turning into a whoring, child selling, abusive (physically/sexually)) but then
back to a completely good husband with Stacey and father to Drake. 

There's also despite Luke being completely sweet to Leigh there's Tom's age which means he had fooling around with Sarah while he was with Leigh. 

[Daisy]

14 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

There's also despite Luke being completely sweet to Leigh there's Tom's age which means he had fooling around with Sarah while he was with Leigh. 

i can't remember how far apart Tom + Leigh were. (but i mean they could have been together then he met Leigh and ended it, then went back to Sarah after)

[andromeda331]

21 minutes ago, Daisy said:

i can't remember how far apart Tom + Leigh were. (but i mean they could have been together then he met Leigh and ended it, then went back to Sarah after)

Tom was 5 months younger then Heaven. He was definitely cheating on Leigh during their very brief marriage.

[Daisy]

15 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Tom was 5 months younger then Heaven. He was definitely cheating on Leigh during their very brief marriage.

right. 
yah. okay so def. "not a good person, Luke."

something that my friends and I wished when we were young was that VCA didn't go with the whole "Tony was a crazy perverted child molester," but because the story was already so dark and twisty, why not have it some sort of like Lolita-ish twist. (this doesn't excuse the fact that Tony was a crazy perverted child molester, but we just wanted something a little bit different. (though i mean it was as you know. Jillian pimped out Leigh for Tony so she wouldn't have sex so she could stay young). 

[andromeda331]

15 minutes ago, Daisy said:

right. 
yah. okay so def. "not a good person, Luke."

Definitely not a good person. He cheated on Leigh, cheated on Sarah, beat and abused his kids, sold his kids, sold Fanny and Heaven to their rapists, and let Heaven go to Boston without telling her that Tony had raped her mother which lead to her conception. So that would be 2 rapists he sent Heaven too. He most certainly would have raped Heaven if his father hadn't intervened. 

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something that my friends and I wished when we were young was that VCA didn't go with the whole "Tony was a crazy perverted child molester," but because the story was already so dark and twisty, why not have it some sort of like Lolita-ish twist. (this doesn't excuse the fact that Tony was a crazy perverted child molester, but we just wanted something a little bit different. (though i mean it was as you know. Jillian pimped out Leigh for Tony so she wouldn't have sex so she could stay young). 

Well, until Tony tried to rape Heaven and then later Annie I thought they might go that route or the two hanging out a lot while Jillian was always busy with herself and having it lead to that. But that ended when he attempted to rape Heaven. Its absolutely insane that Jillian did that to her own daughter.  

[Daisy]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Definitely not a good person. He cheated on Leigh, cheated on Sarah, beat and abused his kids, sold his kids, sold Fanny and Heaven to their rapists, and let Heaven go to Boston without telling her that Tony had raped her mother which lead to her conception. So that would be 2 rapists he sent Heaven too. He most certainly would have raped Heaven if his father hadn't intervened. 

Well, until Tony tried to rape Heaven and then later Annie I thought they might go that route or the two hanging out a lot while Jillian was always busy with herself and having it lead to that. But that ended when he attempted to rape Heaven. Its absolutely insane that Jillian did that to her own daughter.  

That's why the Fallen Hearts (and more importantly, Web of Dreams by the Ghostwriter) completely dropped the ball.  Luke was a creep, and I can figure out why Leigh got seduced by him (because he was handsome and you know not Tony), but the GW made it seem it was like Luke was undone by Leigh's death hence the drinking and spiraling into horribleness - where as you'd have to imagine that had Leigh lived -Leigh easily could have become Sarah-all hope and faith beaten/raped out of her. (Death literally saved Leigh). 

exactly. like. not Leigh being groomed (Like Cal groomed Heaven), but not Tony trying to rape every generation of Leigh. (which irritated me with the Ghostwriter. obviously something was wrong with Tony in the head but that relly became the GW's go to. Tony rapes Leigh, (almost) Heaven, and Annie (or almost i can't remember i hated Annie so i legit ignored her book). go to Cutler series and Philip is a raping rapists who rapes Dawn and Christie, like. why? why go there with Philip? and then down the line. 

I am so mad I can't watch this series (i mean I know i'll rage and rant, but i wanna rage and rant with you all). 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Daisy said:

That's why the Fallen Hearts (and more importantly, Web of Dreams by the Ghostwriter) completely dropped the ball.  Luke was a creep, and I can figure out why Leigh got seduced by him (because he was handsome and you know not Tony), but the GW made it seem it was like Luke was undone by Leigh's death hence the drinking and spiraling into horribleness - where as you'd have to imagine that had Leigh lived -Leigh easily could have become Sarah-all hope and faith beaten/raped out of her. (Death literally saved Leigh). 

exactly. like. not Leigh being groomed (Like Cal groomed Heaven), but not Tony trying to rape every generation of Leigh. (which irritated me with the Ghostwriter. obviously something was wrong with Tony in the head but that relly became the GW's go to. Tony rapes Leigh, (almost) Heaven, and Annie (or almost i can't remember i hated Annie so i legit ignored her book). go to Cutler series and Philip is a raping rapists who rapes Dawn and Christie, like. why? why go there with Philip? and then down the line. 

I am so mad I can't watch this series (i mean I know i'll rage and rant, but i wanna rage and rant with you all). 

Oh, Tony definitely tried to rape Annie. He gets her after her parents are killed in an accident (which by the way was totally Logan's fault) and she's paralyzed. He convinces her to dye her hair Leigh's blond and like Heaven did for awhile and then later tries to rape her. I can't remember which book Jillian's mother Jana shows up and stays like one night and leaves. I think its the one where Jillian kills herself can't really blame her since Tony tries raping 3 generations no wonder she gets out of there as fast. I wouldn't put it past Tony to try and rape a 4th one even if she was older. 

Yeah they really try to show Luke was destroyed by Leigh's death. But that doesn't explain him cheating on Leigh if he loved her so much he really shouldn't have or that he most likely molested or more Fanny, kept Heaven so he could assault her, and he sold Fanny and Heaven to rapists. And again if he loved Leigh so much he would have at least warned Leigh's daughter about Tony rather then send her into that world without telling her. He knew why Leigh ran away and sent her daughter back to him. If they really wanted us to feel for Luke then omit the molesting, cheating on Leigh, and they could have him not know that Heaven went to Boston. Maybe the grandparents or Heaven finds information on her own and goes. But they didn't. Leigh easily would have ended up like Sarah or ended up bolting with her kids to her grandmother. There's no way Luke wouldn't have been horrible to her. Its really hard to believe he somehow managed to be a better husband for Stacey.  Yea he was good to her and Drake at least that's what we're told but that doesn't take away all the horrible stuff he did before. 

[CountryGirl]

In all honesty, it always ticked me off that Luke was this good husband to Stacie and Drake (as far as we were aware and yet so shitty to Leigh (even if she didn't realize) and especially Sarah and his children with them (including Heaven here).

I mean, of course, I wouldn't have wanted Stacie and Drake to have gotten the same treatment, but it just shows he was clearly capable of being a good husband and devoted father and chose not to be for so very long.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

In all honesty, it always ticked me off that Luke was this good husband to Stacie and Drake (as far as we were aware and yet so shitty to Leigh (even if she didn't realize) and especially Sarah and his children with them (including Heaven here).

I mean, of course, I wouldn't have wanted Stacie and Drake to have gotten the same treatment, but it just shows he was clearly capable of being a good husband and devoted father and chose not to be for so very long.

Me too. Its really hard to believe he could clean up his act and finally be a good husband and father. Either he was terrible to Stacie and Drake and we just don't know which is very likely or he really could be and chose to be a so shitty to beloved Leigh who he claimed to love so much or poor Sarah and five of his kids. Either way its crap and Luke is terrible.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Me too. Its really hard to believe he could clean up his act and finally be a good husband and father. Either he was terrible to Stacie and Drake and we just don't know which is very likely or he really could be and chose to be a so shitty to beloved Leigh who he claimed to love so much or poor Sarah and five of his kids. Either way its crap and Luke is terrible.

Yup. The only way it makes sense that he was a good husband/father later on was that his evil nature was compounded by the addiction/drinking and after he got clean he was a good person. But even that, that doesn’t excuse selling your daughter and step daughter to be raped! At the height of addiction no decent parent would do such a thing. 

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Leigh easily would have ended up like Sarah or ended up bolting with her kids to her grandmother. There's no way Luke wouldn't have been horrible to her. Its really hard to believe he somehow managed to be a better husband for Stacey.  Yea he was good to her and Drake at least that's what we're told but that doesn't take away all the horrible stuff he did before. 

Yes. Had Leigh lived she likely would’ve left Luke and tried to get back to her grandmother. Please refresh my memory, did Leigh’s grandmother ever find out what happen to her, and eventually to baby Heaven?

[Daisy]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yup. The only way it makes sense that he was a good husband/father later on was that his evil nature was compounded by the addiction/drinking and after he got clean he was a good person. But even that, that doesn’t excuse selling your daughter and step daughter to be raped! At the height of addiction no decent parent would do such a thing. 

Yes. Had Leigh lived she likely would’ve left Luke and tried to get back to her grandmother. Please refresh my memory, did Leigh’s grandmother ever find out what happen to her, and eventually to baby Heaven?

Gramma Jana never knew. 
Leigh ran away, got off the train, met luke, and missed the train and just decided to stay with luke. 

[Scarlett45]

24 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Gramma Jana never knew. 
Leigh ran away, got off the train, met luke, and missed the train and just decided to stay with luke. 

Thank you. 

[qtpye]

Pardon my language ...but what the fuck did I just watch? It certainly was not Heaven. Everyone who was supposed to have dark hair had red hair and those that were supposed to be giant redheads were replaced by tiny blondes. The cabin looked like the front of a Cracker Barrel.

Logan had a punchable face and most of the acting did not rise to level of Jessie taking drugs and singing “I’m so excited” on Saved By The Bell.

Of course, i’m going to watch next week...why do you ask?

Edited July 31, 2019 by qtpye

[Avaleigh]

As most of us expected, this movie was a total turd but it did provide me with a few cheap laughs so I will be tuning into part two. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment lol.

Did anyone involved in this production read the books? Even a brief summary could have been helpful in terms of creating the right vibe. 

I knew they would fuck up the willies and cabin and said so a few pages back. There was no sense of desperate poverty. The hunger, the bad clothes, the lack of pretty much everything. No West Virginian accents, no authentic feeling reason for why the family is so looked down upon. A lot of telling but not showing. 

Fanny is SUCH a disappointment. Even more of a disappointment than Heaven. She was awful but in a fun to read way and none of that came across here. She gets one line to Heaven about how her own father can't stand her and that's it for their epic rivalry. Fanny's jealousy was off the charts and she never missed an opportunity to be horrible to Heaven. She was an attention fiend and had tremendous confidence and we didn't really get that. I recall Fanny being super smug and pleased that she got to go live with the reverend not realizing the sort of danger that she was walking into. I think they bought her some new clothes and that was enough for her to be grateful and feel like she moved up in the world.

The teacher...what was the point in making her a total bitch? She's mean and she can't even get an easy quote from Shakespeare right? Fair enough that maybe Heaven could have phrased her correction differently ('I think it's "Wherefore art thou Romeo?"' or '"Wait, Ms. ______, isn't it "Wherefore art thou Romeo?" because Juliet is wondering why fate made Romeo a Montague?') but I don't think she was out of line by saying something. 

Granny Casteel was okay. Her character and Julie Benz as Kitty were probably the best thing about this sorry production. Julie took a role that could have been embarrassing and made it interesting and watchable. 

Just the glimpse I've seen of Troy is a total let down and I went into this with bottom of the barrel expectations. It's like I have my twelve year old's idea of what Troy should be and it's as if they put in a 7th Heaven era Stephen Collins in the role. Not sexy, not the right age, and just totally disappointing. Troy is supposed to be hot AF and he and Heaven shouldn't be that far apart in age.

Agreed with those who thought Kitty's mom and Heaven's teacher were the same person. 

Dark Angel was easily my favorite book of the Casteel series so there's no way I'm not watching that. A boarding school horror show, a wicked cool maze, an evil patriarch, a beauty obsessed granny, mean girls and laxatives, an estate better than Foxworth Hall, a huge ass vault of secrets, and the best love interest Andrewsland? All of this fun shit to work with and I know they'll fuck it up.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Avaleigh
fucking auto correct changed thou to though

[CountryGirl]

On 7/30/2019 at 8:24 PM, Daisy said:

Gramma Jana never knew. 
Leigh ran away, got off the train, met luke, and missed the train and just decided to stay with luke. 

I always wondered if Grandma Jana ever speculated about Heaven's true heritage. I wish they had explored that beyond them meeting briefly in Dark Angel.

[CountryGirl]

I know this is a movies topic but since we're on the subject, apparently they are continuing to milk the VC Andrews legacy - there's a book in the works with Corrine 1.0's backstory. 

https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Beneath-the-Attic/V-C-Andrews/Dollanganger/9781982114381?cp_type=enaal&utm_source=email&utm_medium=sands_email&utm_campaign=2019_Author_Alerts_Preorder&rmid=2019_Author_Alerts_Preorder&rrid=3786401

I'm sure this will suck as much as the other Dollanganger tie-ins have.

Back to topic - even though I know it would be terrible, I'm really annoyed that we get a Web of Dreams movie but never got one for Garden of Shadows.

Edited August 1, 2019 by CountryGirl

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I know this is a movies topic but since we're on the subject, apparently they are continuing to milk the VC Andrews legacy - there's a book in the works with Corrine 1.0's backstory. 

https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Beneath-the-Attic/V-C-Andrews/Dollanganger/9781982114381?cp_type=enaal&utm_source=email&utm_medium=sands_email&utm_campaign=2019_Author_Alerts_Preorder&rmid=2019_Author_Alerts_Preorder&rrid=3786401

I'm sure this will suck as much as the other Dollanganger tie-ins have.

Back to topic - even though I know it would be terrible, I'm really annoyed that we get a Web of Dreams movie but never got one for Garden of Shadows.

Ugh, it pains me to see the estate and the terrible ghost writer continue to milk the Dollanganger cash cow for every possible penny.

In theory, I wouldn’t mind finding out more backstory about that crazy family but based on all of the other books that Nederlander has churned out over the years (including those terrible Christopher’s diary books), he’s just going to fuck this up too. 

ITA that we should have had a Garden of Shadows movie! Realistically, how much of Web of Dreams can they actually show since a lot of it is Leigh, a 12 year old girl, posing nude, being felt up by Tony, and then raped?

On top of all that, a good deal of the book is Leigh’s inner monologue. Aside from the molestation and rape, the only major events that happen in the book are Jillian dumps Leigh’s “father” and marries Tony at the beginning and then Leigh runs away and meets Luke at the end. How are they going to fill two whole hours with so little plot?

[TattleTeeny]

Hahhahahaaa, I preordered that book to my Kindle and I don't even care! I like reading nonsense in between reading my "real" books and/or after a week of reading medical copy. 

[BitterApple]

8 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I always wondered if Grandma Jana ever speculated about Heaven's true heritage. I wish they had explored that beyond them meeting briefly in Dark Angel.

I always wondered that too. Jana had her daughter's number, so I could easily believe she'd put two and two together and figure out why Leigh fled Farthinggale Manor. I wish the books had explored that angle. 

I also agree that toning down Fanny's nastiness and jealousy is a huge disservice to the plot, especially given what happens in Fallen Hearts. 

Alas, this trainwreck has sucked me in. Despite my better judgment, I'll be tuning in on Saturday.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Hahhahahaaa, I preordered that book to my Kindle and I don't even care! I like reading nonsense in between reading my "real" books and/or after a week of reading medical copy. 

It’s not the book itself that I object to. I just think the ghost writer has done a shit job on just about everything he’s written in VCA’s name. I would have loved more backstory on the Foxworth family written by someone competent enough to at least keep track of the existing events and timelines established in previous books.

I guess at least with the latest book, there’s only one fact from the previous books (Malcolm’s mother left when he was five) so hopefully that’s not too much information for the incompetent ghost writer and his editor to keep track of!

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It’s not the book itself that I object to. I just think the ghost writer has done a shit job on just about everything he’s written in VCA’s name. I would have loved more backstory on the Foxworth family written by someone competent enough to at least keep track of the existing events and timelines established in previous books.

I guess at least with the latest book, there’s only one fact from the previous books (Malcolm’s mother left when he was five) so hopefully that’s not too much information for the incompetent ghost writer and his editor to keep track of!

Same here. I've always wanted more Foxworth books maybe exploring how Malcolm ended up such a psycho, why his mother left, was Garland perv or something given how young Alicia was and that he apparently waited to marry her. Or a book following up after Cathy dies with Jory's kids and maybe Bart's assuming he ever found some poor woman to marry him but there's no way that generation wouldn't be messed up. I hate the ones they've done. I hate that they undid Cory's death. That was such a huge part of the story and fueled Cathy's revenge and destroyed Carrie. 

In Casteels I always wanted Jillian's story since Jana seems to know her daughter too well and also helped her trick Cleave into marriage when who wasn't even Leigh's father.

Edited August 2, 2019 by andromeda331

[TattleTeeny]

Oh, agree, but these stories are, like, in my blood or something at this point and I love to stash even the bad ones for when the mood strikes (and that is not to say that the originals were what I'd call "good," but definitely compelling!).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Same here. I've always wanted more Foxworth books maybe exploring how Malcolm ended up such a psycho, why his mother left, was Garland perv or something given how young Alicia was and that he apparently waited to marry her. Or a book following up after Cathy dies with Jory's kids and maybe Bart's assuming he ever found some poor woman to marry him but there's no way that generation wouldn't be messed up. I hate the ones they've done. I hate that they undid Cory's death. That was such a huge part of the story and fueled Cathy's revenge and destroyed Carrie. 

In Casteels I always wanted Jillian's story since Jana seems to know her daughter too well and also helped her trick Cleave into marriage when who wasn't even Leigh's father.

As an adult, it's disturbing how Malcolm calls all women whores based on the fact that his mother left him with his wealthy father because she was not happy. But like a typical misogynist, it's fine for him to be a total creeper, rape his stepmother, etc. because OF COURSE he is a hypocrite with double standards. His obsession with his mother totally creeped me out even when I first read Garden of Shadows. He kept her room as a shrine, raped his wife for having the audacity to go into the swan room, and then called his wife by his mother's name as he was raping her. Dude needed some serious therapy.

I did wonder why Corrine left Garland though, especially since he seemed to dote on Alicia and give her anything she wanted. Then again, maybe Garland was like Tony Tatterton (into much younger girls) and Corrine just aged out of his ideal age bracket.

I always wondered about everyone else in the Dollanganger series because Cathy was able to justify her actions no matter how terrible. That's why I thought the Christopher Diaries had the potential to be an interesting concept. It could have been another side of the story we already knew but with a completely different perspective. But that Cory retcon was just too much for me. Cory's death was the driving force behind so many things that happened (Chris and Cathy's decision to finally flee Foxworth Hall, Cathy doing anything she could to hurt her mother from sending her taunting letters to going after Bart, Carrie's suicide) so making it all a twist that he hadn't died cheapened everything. That was a terrible decision on the part of VCA's estate/Niedermeyer.

Cathy was a very damaged person and we got to see her thought process about why she felt it was okay for her to be with Chris (he needed her and could never love or trust anyone else after what their mother had done to them), Paul (to try to force Chris to be with someone else), Julian (to escape Paul when Amanda told her that Julia was still alive), and Bart (to punish Corrine). In Cathy's mind, she was always the victim trying to claw her way out of a bad situation, and the one time that she wasn't the narrator, we got a slightly different view of her from Jory and Bart - not just because she was their mother but because they were on the outside looking in, viewing her actions without the context of her past or the benefit of her inner monologue rationalizing what she'd done.

Chris knew exactly who Cathy was and what he'd done, and he loved her whole-heartedly without reservation - but he still had enough perspective to see when she was going off the deep end about things, which is one of the reasons why I thought the Christopher Diaries could have been interesting.

I think Jillian was similar to Cathy in many ways - she knew what she wanted and she was ruthless about getting it. But we knew why Cathy became that way. I would have been interested to learn about how Jillian became that way. I don't remember much about her backstory aside from the fact that she was from Texas.

Ooh, you know who else I want a backstory on? The names of the kids that Cathy and Chris found in the attic schoolroom!

[Lisa418722]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ooh, you know who else I want a backstory on? The names of the kids that Cathy and Chris found in the attic schoolroom!

 

Me too! 

I never did read Christopher's Diaries and after hearing about the retconning of Cory's death, I'm glad I didn't. 

[CountryGirl]

To all this Cory didn't die retconn bullshit. 

[Daisy]

Wait? What?
Cory died in Flowers in the Attic from the poisoned doughtnuts. (what is Christopher's Diary?)

[Snow Apple]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

 (what is Christopher's Diary?)

Bad fanfiction.

Seriously though, it's a book trilogy the ghostwriter wrote. Why? I guess money. I can't tell you much about it because I refuse to read anything that hack writes anymore, especially "sequels" to V. C. Andrew's real work. 

[Daisy]

3 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Bad fanfiction.

Seriously though, it's a book trilogy the ghostwriter wrote. Why? I guess money. I can't tell you much about it because I refuse to read anything that hack writes anymore, especially "sequels" to V. C. Andrew's real work. 

Good gravy. Thanks for that heads up
I basically only read up until Landry series because other than that it's just too hard to read everything.. they really should let things go. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, Daisy said:

Wait? What?
Cory died in Flowers in the Attic from the poisoned doughtnuts. (what is Christopher's Diary?)

There was more detailed discussion about the crappy Christopher’s Diaries books a few pages back in this thread if you want to read more about the complete fuckery.