Lifetime's VC Andrews Movies Topic (Flowers In The Attic, The Dollangangers, The Casteels, etc) - General Discussion

[Snow Apple]

How funny. I also recorded it and just watched it this week because I need space in my DVR. I fast forwarded it a lot but it wasn't as bad as I thought. I also just found out the actress who played Audrina is Olivia Hussey's daughter. What a pretty mother/daughter duo.

[Queena]

I recorded this when it was on, and started watching it today. didn't finish.

I got stuck on - Over-protective father doesn't let his daughter go to school, or have friends, or ever leave the property.

THEN - she asks for piano lessons, having heard that there's a new piano teacher in town (HOW did she hear this?)

ANd then over-protective dad lets her ride her bike alone into town, and go to a man's house and be alone with him?

there's just no middle-ground, is there? Like driving her to the music teacher's house, meeting him, and sticking around for the first lesson?

I read all the VC Andrews books when I was younger. Pure escapism. And I always wondered what kind of fucked-up childhood VC must have had.

Here's a very good article on Andrew's. http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/the-ghost-of-vc-andrews-the-life-death-and-afterlife-of-the

[Snow Apple]

I just saw he "sequel" in the library, couldn't help reading the last few pages, and.....no.....just no.

[Avaleigh]

Is this the place to discuss the upcoming Heaven movie? I read the casting news and am curious about what people's overall thoughts are. The actress who's been cast as Heaven looks like she auditioned to play Ruby. I know casting isn't only about who looks best for the part but wow, she and the actress playing Fanny don't even look like they could be cousins let alone half sisters. 

I hope this is better than the Audrina movie. The less said about that the better.

[JAYJAY1979]

6 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Is this the place to discuss the upcoming Heaven movie? I read the casting news and am curious about what people's overall thoughts are. The actress who's been cast as Heaven looks like she auditioned to play Ruby. I know casting isn't only about who looks best for the part but wow, she and the actress playing Fanny don't even look like they could be cousins let alone half sisters. 

I hope this is better than the Audrina movie. The less said about that the better.

I hope both Heaven and Fanny will have dark hair and the actress hired to play Kitty better be sporting some red hair since the character in the book was described as having Flame red hair and wearing hot pink.

 

Also, I'm sorry but enough with filming in Canada... the book took place in the backwoods in Virginia as well as in Atlanta Georgia.  

Edited February 28, 2018 by JAYJAY1979

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Cast listed on IMDB:
Heaven Casteel - Annalise Basso
Cal Dennison - Chris McNally
Kitty - Julie Benz (Darla from BtVS!)
Logan - James Rittinger
Luke - Chris William Martin (Zach Salvatore! Dylan from Fifteen!)
Tom - Matthew Nelson-Mahood
Fanny Casteel - Jessica Clement
Sarah Casteel - Samantha Coughlan
Keith Casteel - Christian Convery
Janey Casteel - Madeline Hirvonen
Reverend Wayland - Todd Thomson
Logan's mother - Karyn Mott

Crew listed on IMDB:
Director - Paul Shapiro
Screenplay - Scarlett Lacey (she also wrote the screenplay for My Sweet Audrina)

ETA: Normally I'm not too worried about hair color because that's easily fixed with wigs or hair dye, but just looking at the headshots of who's been cast so far isn't giving me much hope. Fanny and Luke are supposed to have bronze skin, ebony hair, and black eyes because of Luke's "Indian ancestor" but they have cast a fair skinned blue-eyed 40+ year old man to play 28 year old Luke and a fair skinned redhead as Fanny. Meanwhile, Tom, Keith, and Our Jane are supposed to get their red hair from green-eyed Sarah, who is being played by a blue-eyed blonde. Heaven is supposed to have cornflower blue eyes. The actress playing her has hazel (or maybe green?) eyes in her headshot - definitely not the bright blue that we're told is soooooo unique to Heaven.

Edited March 7, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[msrachelj]

when is this new movie going to be on?

[Queena]

On 2/27/2018 at 2:18 PM, Avaleigh said:

Is this the place to discuss the upcoming Heaven movie? I read the casting news and am curious about what people's overall thoughts are. The actress who's been cast as Heaven looks like she auditioned to play Ruby. I know casting isn't only about who looks best for the part but wow, she and the actress playing Fanny don't even look like they could be cousins let alone half sisters. 

I hope this is better than the Audrina movie. The less said about that the better.

Well, they aren't half sisters biologically... 

[Avaleigh]

19 hours ago, Queena said:

Well, they aren't half sisters biologically... 

Right, I know, but since they're under the impression that they are, I feel like it makes more sense to give them the same hair color. Otherwise where is the surprise element for non book readers that Tony is her real father? Heaven already sounds like she's going to be the proverbial (non) redheaded stepchild when we're supposed to wonder why Luke would hate his only child from Heaven. I feel like the non book reading audience is going to pick this up from the jump based on casting alone. (Although I'm remembering now that Tony and Jilliam don't appear until the second book.)

I'm curious as to how the movie will handle the plot with Fanny and Reverend Wayland. I can't imagine that they'll run with the idea that 14(?) year old Fanny supposedly seduced the good reverend. At least Heaven understood that Fanny was the victim and that the Waylands were sick and criminal hypocrites. I can't remember if they kicked Famny out or if she left of her own accord. Do we ever find out how Fanny's first kid turns out? Did she ever see her again? 

Also, when do we find out that Luke II is Logan's son? Is it in Fallen Hearts or Gates of Paradise?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 3/20/2018 at 8:11 AM, Avaleigh said:

when do we find out that Luke II is Logan's son? Is it in Fallen Hearts or Gates of Paradise?

Fallen Hearts. Fanny tells Heaven she’s pregnant with Logan’s baby. Heaven confronts Logan and he admits that he slept with Fanny while he was in Winnerow. 

On 3/20/2018 at 8:11 AM, Avaleigh said:

I can't remember if they kicked Famny out or if she left of her own accord.

The reverend paid her to leave town after Darcy was born. 

ETA: The Wises paid Fanny to leave so that they could pass Darcy off as their bio kid. Heaven later theorizes that their real motive for buying Fanny was for this exact purpose (getting her knocked up) because the reverend’s wife was barren. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Avaleigh]

Oh right, and then Heaven says they should try to get Darcy back and Fanny isn't all that interested IIRC.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

22 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Oh right, and then Heaven says they should try to get Darcy back and Fanny isn't all that interested IIRC.

The opposite! When Heaven visits Fanny in Nashville, Fanny says she wants Darcy back and demands that Heaven somehow make that happen. Heaven points out that if she got Darcy back, 16 year old Fanny couldn’t keep going to auditions by leaving baby Darcy alone in her motel room. Fanny threatens to tell Jillian and Tony that Luke was an abusive cheater to Leigh if Heaven doesn’t get Darcy back for her so Heaven reluctantly agrees. 

Heaven calls Tom to tell him that she’s going to Winnerow to get Darcy from the Wises for Fanny. Tom’s response is basically WTF? Remember how Fanny is the worst at everything and would be a terrible mother if she had to take care of a baby?

Despite this, Heaven goes to Reverend Wise and his wife to try to get Darcy back for Fanny. First the reverend denies that Fanny even had a kid. Then he switches gears and blames Fanny for being a slutty slut who pressed her slutty body against him and he was just powerless to resist having sex with the 14 year old girl he bought for $500. By the time he’s done slut shaming and gaslighting, Heaven remembers that Fanny never did anything to help take care of Keith and Our Jane and concludes that Darcy is better off being raised by Reverend Rapey. She even apologizes to the wife as she’s leaving. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Fanny was the most interesting character in the Casteel series from what I recall.  It will be interesting to see how the movie will portray her character since the character was pretty wild and in your face.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

12 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Fanny was the most interesting character in the Casteel series from what I recall.  It will be interesting to see how the movie will portray her character since the character was pretty wild and in your face.

I feel like they're probably going to tone Fanny down because of her age. She's pretty young for most of the first book. She's 11 or 12 years old at the beginning of the first book, 12 or 13 when she is sold, and 16 at the end of the first book when she's pregnant with Darcy. She's only a year younger than Heaven so they can't age her up without messing up Heaven's age and the later plotlines (like being in high school when she moves to Boston).

Edited March 22, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Queena]

On 3/20/2018 at 10:11 AM, Avaleigh said:

Right, I know, but since they're under the impression that they are, I feel like it makes more sense to give them the same hair color. Otherwise where is the surprise element for non book readers that Tony is her real father? Heaven already sounds like she's going to be the proverbial (non) redheaded stepchild when we're supposed to wonder why Luke would hate his only child from Heaven. I feel like the non book reading audience is going to pick this up from the jump based on casting alone. (Although I'm remembering now that Tony and Jilliam don't appear until the second book.)

I'm curious as to how the movie will handle the plot with Fanny and Reverend Wayland. I can't imagine that they'll run with the idea that 14(?) year old Fanny supposedly seduced the good reverend. At least Heaven understood that Fanny was the victim and that the Waylands were sick and criminal hypocrites. I can't remember if they kicked Famny out or if she left of her own accord. Do we ever find out how Fanny's first kid turns out? Did she ever see her again? 

Also, when do we find out that Luke II is Logan's son? Is it in Fallen Hearts or Gates of Paradise?

That's the thing that sets Heaven apart, the fact that she looks different than everyone. You are suppose to notice. The movie should start off showing you Heaven's difference, remember Granny tells Heaven about her Mother and gives her the portrait doll. 

On 3/22/2018 at 6:54 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I feel like they're probably going to tone Fanny down because of her age. She's pretty young for most of the first book. She's 11 or 12 years old at the beginning of the first book, 12 or 13 when she is sold, and 16 at the end of the first book when she's pregnant with Darcy. She's only a year younger than Heaven so they can't age her up without messing up Heaven's age and the later plotlines (like being in high school when she moves to Boston).

Fanny should be 2 years younger than Heaven. Tom is exactly 9 months younger than Heaven. It may be a little less.. But Luke was cheating on his precious Angel it is implied. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

19 hours ago, Queena said:

Fanny should be 2 years younger than Heaven. Tom is exactly 9 months younger than Heaven. It may be a little less.. But Luke was cheating on his precious Angel it is implied. 

At the beginning of the first book, it's stated that Tom is four months younger than Heaven and that Fanny was born the year after Tom. Near the end of the first book when Heaven visits Fanny at the reverend's house, Heaven says Fanny is 16 years old and 4 months old and that both Heaven and Tom are 17.

ETA: Heaven was born on February 22 and Tom was born in June, so Fanny was born anywhere between March of the following year (which would make Heaven 1 year and 1 month older than Fanny) and December of the next year (which would Heaven 1 year and 9-10 months older than Fanny.

Heaven went back to Winnerow in mid-August (Logan was hanging around until he went back to college for the fall - I think Heaven and Cal were in town for around a month before Kitty died). Heaven went to see Fanny and Toby the day after she arrived in Winnerow. Since Fanny was 16 years and 4 months old when Heaven visited her, she must have been born in April (or possibly late March depending on how specific Heaven was), which would make Heaven 1 year and 1-2 months older (depending on whether Fanny was born at the beginning or end of April).

I have officially given too much thought to Fanny’s birthday! 

VC Andrews clearly had timelines for her characters and stories, and I appreciate her attention to detail. Unfortunately the ghost writer did not pay attention to things like dates and birthdays which resulted in discrepancies in some of the books, particularly Garden of Shadows vs the earlier Dollanganger books. It drove me crazy whenever I noticed!

Edited March 26, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[AnnieHeights]

Does anyone else agree there is no way to do these books justice in movie form unless someone like Netflix takes them on?  I have never been happy with who they cast in the Dollanganger roles.....none of the actors have been as beautiful or handsome as described in the books.  If they made a Netflix series and really tackled the darkness the books are about and gave it the proper length to tell the whole story it could be awesome.  There is just no way to depict the books on a channel like Lifetime in two hours with a soap opera vibe and do it justice.  Casting, of course would be crucial.                   

[Daisy]

19 hours ago, AnnieHeights said:

Does anyone else agree there is no way to do these books justice in movie form unless someone like Netflix takes them on?  I have never been happy with who they cast in the Dollanganger roles.....none of the actors have been as beautiful or handsome as described in the books.  If they made a Netflix series and really tackled the darkness the books are about and gave it the proper length to tell the whole story it could be awesome.  There is just no way to depict the books on a channel like Lifetime in two hours with a soap opera vibe and do it justice.  Casting, of course would be crucial.                   

 

i've  always thought  that. 
these books need more time + budget to be really really accurate. 

[Avaleigh]

To me it would have made more sense to do a limited series type of thing. They should have included the period with Paul and allowed the viewers to see the transition from the attic to life on the outside. I think the Paul period is a big part of understanding where Cathy is coming from psychologically. 

The casting for Flowers in the Attic really didn't work for me. I loved Kiernan Shipka in Mad Men but she was totally miscast IMO. Heather Graham was flat out embarrassing. I can understand going OTT with the role but her line delivery was positively cringe worthy at times. The actor who played older Chris was definitely a weak link. 

I'm not hopeful for the Casteel series. Nobody looks the way they should and we already know that they're going to rush the story and focus on the sensational parts instead of giving time to smaller details that made this story work. The Willies was basically a character in Heaven and a recurring character in the other books but I don't expect we're going to get much to really show viewers what kind of place it is and how there could be warmth even in the poverty and hardship. 

If there was one thing that V.C. Andrew's did well in terms of writing it was creating atmosphere. The houses in her stories come alive whether it's the estates like Farthingale or Foxworth Hall, a manor house like Whitefern, Troy's cottage, an attic, or a backwoods cabin---she knew how to make these locations haunting and memorable and the movies have all utterly failed at achieving that so far.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The time constraints of covering everything in the books within 90 minutes has been one of the biggest problems because there's just so much material, particularly with Petals in the Wind which covers over a decade of stuff. Even cutting out their immediate post-attic years with Paul still left a lot of plot to cover. 

The second major problem was definitely the casting. Not only did they need to cast some straight up gorgeous people (which they mostly didn't), they needed to cast actors who were capable of conveying complex emotions (and, no, Heather Graham yelling didn't fulfill that).

I know that people like to mock VC Andrews for her purple prose, but I agree that she was able to create very distinct and creepy settings. Foxworth Hall, Whitefern, and the Casteel cabin were all so different but so easy to picture.

[qtpye]

On 5/31/2018 at 12:32 PM, AnnieHeights said:

Does anyone else agree there is no way to do these books justice in movie form unless someone like Netflix takes them on?  I have never been happy with who they cast in the Dollanganger roles.....none of the actors have been as beautiful or handsome as described in the books.  If they made a Netflix series and really tackled the darkness the books are about and gave it the proper length to tell the whole story it could be awesome.  There is just no way to depict the books on a channel like Lifetime in two hours with a soap opera vibe and do it justice.  Casting, of course would be crucial.                   

 

On 6/1/2018 at 8:20 AM, Daisy said:

 

i've  always thought  that. 
these books need more time + budget to be really really accurate. 

 

On 6/1/2018 at 9:35 PM, Avaleigh said:

To me it would have made more sense to do a limited series type of thing. They should have included the period with Paul and allowed the viewers to see the transition from the attic to life on the outside. I think the Paul period is a big part of understanding where Cathy is coming from psychologically. 

The casting for Flowers in the Attic really didn't work for me. I loved Kiernan Shipka in Mad Men but she was totally miscast IMO. Heather Graham was flat out embarrassing. I can understand going OTT with the role but her line delivery was positively cringe worthy at times. The actor who played older Chris was definitely a weak link. 

I'm not hopeful for the Casteel series. Nobody looks the way they should and we already know that they're going to rush the story and focus on the sensational parts instead of giving time to smaller details that made this story work. The Willies was basically a character in Heaven and a recurring character in the other books but I don't expect we're going to get much to really show viewers what kind of place it is and how there could be warmth even in the poverty and hardship. 

If there was one thing that V.C. Andrew's did well in terms of writing it was creating atmosphere. The houses in her stories come alive whether it's the estates like Farthingale or Foxworth Hall, a manor house like Whitefern, Troy's cottage, an attic, or a backwoods cabin---she knew how to make these locations haunting and memorable and the movies have all utterly failed at achieving that so far.

 

On 6/27/2018 at 5:27 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The time constraints of covering everything in the books within 90 minutes has been one of the biggest problems because there's just so much material, particularly with Petals in the Wind which covers over a decade of stuff. Even cutting out their immediate post-attic years with Paul still left a lot of plot to cover. 

The second major problem was definitely the casting. Not only did they need to cast some straight up gorgeous people (which they mostly didn't), they needed to cast actors who were capable of conveying complex emotions (and, no, Heather Graham yelling didn't fulfill that).

I know that people like to mock VC Andrews for her purple prose, but I agree that she was able to create very distinct and creepy settings. Foxworth Hall, Whitefern, and the Casteel cabin were all so different but so easy to picture.

It seems so petty, but looks are a very important part of the VC Andrew's world. The Dollangangers were supposed to be amazingly beautiful. This great beauty was both a blessing and a curse. Corinne was so beautiful and charming that she practically had every man she met wrapped around her finger. The amazing beauty was also one of the things that also made the children feel like freaks when they got out of the attic...it was impossible to blend in. Carrie was tormented because her beautiful face and hair were much too large for her undersized body. Similarly, Heaven was supposed to be so stunning that she was the most beautiful girl in town despite her raggedy clothes and poverty. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but like Game of Thrones, hair/eye color is very important in this world. It is like the casting people have no understanding of the books are like "Oh, we need a cute blonde...how about Heather Graham"?  Also, Corrine was raised very privileged and that polish was something Graham could not really convey.

[msrachelj]

yikes, i need to rewatch every previous movie before the new one comes out. i don't remember half this stuff.

anyone know when the new movie is going to be on?

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

 

yikes, i need to rewatch every previous movie before the new one comes out. i don't remember half this stuff.

anyone know when the new movie is going to be on?

 

If you mean Heaven, you won't need any of the others; they're a different series (though full of similar themes, like all of VC's books), and Audrina was a standalone. 

Edited July 29, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[Dr.OO7]

On 4/10/2015 at 6:54 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm not a huge fan of Seeds of Yesterday either because Bart is such a dick and Cathy becomes such a judgmental hypocrite about Cindy (heaven forbid that a 16 year old have sex with her 18 year old boyfriend, completely disregarding the fact that when Cathy was the same age she was having sex with her legal guardian who was 25 years older). Suddenly Cathy is lecturing Cindy about not having sex until she's married. You know, because Cathy totally waited to have sex until she got married!

And the way she won't stop harping on Bart and Melodie's about their affair. Bitch, shut up and let someone who isn't FUCKING HER BROTHER talk.

And she also has the nerve to chastise Bart for idolizing his father--"He wasn't faithful to his wife". With YOU, you fucking hypocrite! Jeez!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Haha and one of the ironic things is that Cathy was yelling at Cindy to wait until marriage to have sex yet one of Cathy's two legal marriage was to Paul and she waited three years to have sex with him because of his four heart attacks. You know, after having sex with him a lot when she was 16!

[Scarlett45]

On 7/31/2018 at 1:08 AM, Camille said:

And the way she won't stop harping on Bart and Melodie's about their affair. Bitch, shut up and let someone who isn't FUCKING HER BROTHER talk.

And she also has the nerve to chastise Bart for idolizing his father--"He wasn't faithful to his wife". With YOU, you fucking hypocrite! Jeez!

Who was Bart’s bio dad again? I cannot remember. 

Corrines husband- yes!

Edited August 29, 2018 by Scarlett45

[Lisa418722]

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Who was Bart’s bio dad again? I cannot remember. 

Corrines husband- yes!

Correct.  Bart's father was Corine's husband, a/k/a her stepfather, Bart.  Yeah, Cathy has no reason to judge.  

[qtpye]

On 7/31/2018 at 2:08 AM, Camille said:

And the way she won't stop harping on Bart and Melodie's about their affair. Bitch, shut up and let someone who isn't FUCKING HER BROTHER talk.

And she also has the nerve to chastise Bart for idolizing his father--"He wasn't faithful to his wife". With YOU, you fucking hypocrite! Jeez!

 

On 8/1/2018 at 10:04 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Haha and one of the ironic things is that Cathy was yelling at Cindy to wait until marriage to have sex yet one of Cathy's two legal marriage was to Paul and she waited three years to have sex with him because of his four heart attacks. You know, after having sex with him a lot when she was 16!

Of course, it was a given throughout the series that if any man was around Cathy, he would fall madly in love with her. It was even implied in Seeds that a lot of Bart's problems stem from being obsessed with his mother, kind of like Malcolm.

[JAYJAY1979]

Since we're discussing the FITA movies, if you think about it.. Carrie's death altered/changed the course of the story.. since had she not passed away than Cathy/Chris wouldn't have been able to live as 'spouses', etc.  Out of all the characters in the series, the most tragic and memorable for me was Carrie's.  She ended up finding a great guy that loved her for her, but her inability to move beyond what happened to her in the attic ended up being her undoing.  Carrie's arc in the Petals in the Wind movie was the only think I thought was done right.

[Amtosbm]

How the hell did I miss that they were making Heaven into a Movie. I loved this series mostly because of bad girl Fanny. I loved Heaven too (mostly) but honestly just like Cathy she was a supreme hypocrite most of the time.  I wouldn't want a sister like Fanny in real life but holy hell was she entertaining to read. Is it evil I laughed so hard that she ended up being the mother of Logan's only child. Cause he honestly deserved it. He and Heaven were perfect together - two hypocrites on high horses a little too often.

On 6/1/2018 at 9:35 PM, Avaleigh said:

I'm not hopeful for the Casteel series. Nobody looks the way they should and we already know that they're going to rush the story and focus on the sensational parts instead of giving time to smaller details that made this story work. The Willies was basically a character in Heaven and a recurring character in the other books but I don't expect we're going to get much to really show viewers what kind of place it is and how there could be warmth even in the poverty and hardship.

I hear you.

The casting though - ugh redheads!!! WTF!! As someone mentioned Heaven is distinctive and doesn't look like the others, she is supposed to have I guess what you would call a classic beauty like her mother. Which, I can't see this actress as a blond later down the road. I am already losing faith. Cal looks hot but he is such a whiny sad sack in the books that I pictured him more as a pathetic pretty boy. This guy looks I don't know tougher or something. Most of all I need Fanny to be wild. Someone has to inject some fun into these movies cause no one else will be able to. I wonder if they will end up making it the last book where Tony rapes 12 year old Leigh after painting her NAKED for weeks and her mother blames her. Because that will be hard to watch. I just loathed Gillian.

Troy really was the cream of the Andrewsville men which is course why he ended up alone, insert eyeroll.

[qtpye]

18 hours ago, Amtosbm said:

How the hell did I miss that they were making Heaven into a Movie. I loved this series mostly because of bad girl Fanny. I loved Heaven too (mostly) but honestly just like Cathy she was a supreme hypocrite most of the time.  I wouldn't want a sister like Fanny in real life but holy hell was she entertaining to read. Is it evil I laughed so hard that she ended up being the mother of Logan's only child. Cause he honestly deserved it. He and Heaven were perfect together - two hypocrites on high horses a little too often.

I hear you.

The casting though - ugh redheads!!! WTF!! As someone mentioned Heaven is distinctive and doesn't look like the others, she is supposed to have I guess what you would call a classic beauty like her mother. Which, I can't see this actress as a blond later down the road. I am already losing faith. Cal looks hot but he is such a whiny sad sack in the books that I pictured him more as a pathetic pretty boy. This guy looks I don't know tougher or something. Most of all I need Fanny to be wild. Someone has to inject some fun into these movies cause no one else will be able to. I wonder if they will end up making it the last book where Tony rapes 12 year old Leigh after painting her NAKED for weeks and her mother blames her. Because that will be hard to watch. I just loathed Gillian.

Troy really was the cream of the Andrewsville men which is course why he ended up alone, insert eyeroll.

Even though she lived in poverty and wore rags...Heaven was supposedly still the most beautiful girl in the area. I liked Heaven but the way that she was put on a pedestal by almost every man she met was annoying. I hate Cal and thought he took advantage of a young girl in a desperate situation and that made him not much better than the Reverend that adopted Fanny. I also hated that he let Kitty abuse Heaven, but thought it was HIM that needed comfort.

Fanny was a lot of fun if nothing else because she was such a cartoony foil to the perfect Heaven. I love it when Fanny refused to fawn over "our Jane" because she was just so gosh darn cute and dropped her in a mud puddle.

Edited September 5, 2018 by qtpye

[Amtosbm]

Quote

Quote

I also hated that he let Fanny abuse Heaven,

 

I think you meant Kitty but anyone who read the books would know who you meant.  (I have hope for Julia as Kitty, we know she can play sweet and a bitch)Yes Cal really did just as good a job manipulating Heaven as the Rev. did with Fanny. And of course Logan blamed Heaven for not waiting on him. Which yeah - cosmic payback with Fanny and Luke junior in my opinion. 

Luke Sr. really was an asshole, but sometimes I wonder if he shipped off Heaven because he was afraid he would end up raping her as well. His mother seemed to think so, with him watching her as she slept so often. What he did to his own kids showed just how selfish he was. I never could stand Drake either and Heaven's obsession with taking him in.

I saw some still frames from the movie after reading the casting, and I hate to rag on actors looks, but this Heaven is no head turning beauty. Is it so hard in Hollywood to find actors that could better match these parts or does the casting person owe some agents some favours?  I was already pissed about it as others mentioned in the Dollanger series. I see soap actresses all the time who are stunning looking, these people are out there. Ugh. I need to stop since I guess its done but honestly I wish these books were being done by real fans and maybe then at least we could watch them and have some things to positively comment on. I am already doubting the look of Tatterton mansion with its mosiacs will be as  I pictured it. I am only half-heartedly excited about this now.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Amtosbm

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, Amtosbm said:

I think you meant Kitty but anyone who read the books would know who you meant.  (I have hope for Julia as Kitty, we know she can play sweet and a bitch)Yes Cal really did just as good a job manipulating Heaven as the Rev. did with Fanny. And of course Logan blamed Heaven for not waiting on him. Which yeah - cosmic payback with Fanny and Luke junior in my opinion. 

Luke Sr. really was an asshole, but sometimes I wonder if he shipped off Heaven because he was afraid he would end up raping her as well. His mother seemed to think so, with him watching her as she slept so often. What he did to his own kids showed just how selfish he was. I never could stand Drake either and Heaven's obsession with taking him in.

I saw some still frames from the movie after reading the casting, and I hate to rag on actors looks, but this Heaven is no head turning beauty. Is it so hard in Hollywood to find actors that could better match these parts or does the casting person owe some agents some favours?  I was already pissed about it as others mentioned in the Dollanger series. I see soap actresses all the time who are stunning looking, these people are out there. Ugh. I need to stop since I guess its done but honestly I wish these books were being done by real fans and maybe then at least we could watch them and have some things to positively comment on. I am already doubting the look of Tatterton mansion with its mosiacs will be as  I pictured it. I am only half-heartedly excited about this now.

Thanks...I corrected it. I totally agree...like soap opera these books are supposed to be filled with beautiful people. Heaven is always supposed to stick out because of her beauty and how she is so much better than her surroundings. It is not like it is hard to find good looking people in Hollywood.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 6/27/2018 at 5:27 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The second major problem was definitely the casting. Not only did they need to cast some straight up gorgeous people (which they mostly didn't), they needed to cast actors who were capable of conveying complex emotions (and, no, Heather Graham yelling didn't fulfill that).

I'm rewatching the movies today on Lifetime. I actually like the second Cathy in Petals but...she is clearly a redhead! It's not carrot red but it is quite noticeably red hair. It takes me out of the scene at the party--one reason Cathy is able to convince everyone she's telling the truth is that she strongly resembles her mother. Not with this cast!

[Scarlett45]

On 8/29/2018 at 5:26 PM, JAYJAY1979 said:

Since we're discussing the FITA movies, if you think about it.. Carrie's death altered/changed the course of the story.. since had she not passed away than Cathy/Chris wouldn't have been able to live as 'spouses', etc.  Out of all the characters in the series, the most tragic and memorable for me was Carrie's.  She ended up finding a great guy that loved her for her, but her inability to move beyond what happened to her in the attic ended up being her undoing.  Carrie's arc in the Petals in the Wind movie was the only think I thought was done right.

I did feel very sad for Carrie......her suicide really was so tragic. 

Edited to add- but I think losing her really sent Cathy over the edge regarding revenge towards Corrine (if I have the time line right?) & not giving two fucks about being with Chris. Life is short I suppose. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Scarlett45

[andromeda331]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I did feel very sad for Carrie......he suicide really was so tragic. 

It really was. The poor girl. Why no one bothered to get her into therapy I don't know. All three really needed it after what they went through. The one reason I like Cathy is that I like that she's angry over what happened to her and her siblings growing up and wants revenge. Even if though it wasn't for a few decades. Carrie was too hurt and traumatized and Christopher just wants to let it go because he still can't hate Corinne and wants bed with Cathy. It was nice that someone was still angry and wanted revenge. Then decided to get it. Other Girls in other V.C. Andrews series go through a lot too. But they don't ever go after the person or persons responsible for that crap. Audrina's ending shouldn't have been deciding to stay instead of get out of there and far from her horrible father and equally horrible husband. Tell them off, strike a match, or let Sylvia take both out.  Heaven just cuts Tony out of her life but remains with stupid Logan who will eventually kill both of them and leaving their daughter back in the hands of Tony. Why can't she do more to Tony then that? Why does she have to end up with stupid Logan? She and Fanny should have both ditched him.  Why can't the villains in these stories ever actually really pay for their crap or have someone dish it back? Reading about Cathy exposing Corinne was awesome. Corinne trying to talk her way out of it but can't. Cathy has the birth certificates and easily manages to destroy every argument Corinne has. Foxworth Hall is destroyed and she's committed. You have Cathy right before she's about to be whipped by Olivia threatening that one day she's going to whip her back and then seeing her actually do that? It was awesome.    

[qtpye]

16 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It really was. The poor girl. Why no one bothered to get her into therapy I don't know. All three really needed it after what they went through. The one reason I like Cathy is that I like that she's angry over what happened to her and her siblings growing up and wants revenge. Even if though it wasn't for a few decades. Carrie was too hurt and traumatized and Christopher just wants to let it go because he still can't hate Corinne and wants bed with Cathy. It was nice that someone was still angry and wanted revenge. Then decided to get it. Other Girls in other V.C. Andrews series go through a lot too. But they don't ever go after the person or persons responsible for that crap. Audrina's ending shouldn't have been deciding to stay instead of get out of there and far from her horrible father and equally horrible husband. Tell them off, strike a match, or let Sylvia take both out.  Heaven just cuts Tony out of her life but remains with stupid Logan who will eventually kill both of them and leaving their daughter back in the hands of Tony. Why can't she do more to Tony then that? Why does she have to end up with stupid Logan? She and Fanny should have both ditched him.  Why can't the villains in these stories ever actually really pay for their crap or have someone dish it back? Reading about Cathy exposing Corinne was awesome. Corinne trying to talk her way out of it but can't. Cathy has the birth certificates and easily manages to destroy every argument Corinne has. Foxworth Hall is destroyed and she's committed. You have Cathy right before she's about to be whipped by Olivia threatening that one day she's going to whip her back and then seeing her actually do that? It was awesome.    

Not to mention the most logical thing to do would be to go to the police, asap in all the circumstances. Best revenge...Corrine and her parents spending a good amount of time rotting behind bars. This never happens because waiting to grow up and seduce your mother's husband is a much better strategy.

Edited September 9, 2018 by qtpye

[Scarlett45]

25 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Not to mention the most logical thing to do would be to go to the police, asap in all the circumstance. Best revenge...Corrine and her parents spending a good amount of time rotting behind bars. This never happens because waiting to grow up and seduce your mother's husband is a much better strategy.

Would anyone have believed them though? I understand why abused children don’t go to the police in “typical” abusive situations. Just after all they had been through Cathy and Chris still ended up being pretty decent human beings considering.....

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

Not to mention the most logical thing to do would be to go to the police, asap in all the circumstance. Best revenge...Corrine and her parents spending a good amount of time rotting behind bars. This never happens because waiting to grow up and seduce your mother's husband is a much better strategy.

It really would have. Both finally locked up for their crimes and spend the rest of their lives in jail.

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Would anyone have believed them though? I understand why abused children don’t go to the police in “typical” abusive situations. Just after all they had been through Cathy and Chris still ended up being pretty decent human beings considering.....

Well, they would be able to do medical work up on all three kids and easily find the arsenic as well as being underweight and suffering the effects of being malnourished and probably a host of other problems from being locked away and barely fed. Cathy does still have the birth certificates including one of Cory who isn't with them so you could probably make a case against Corinne and Olivia.  The police even then should have been able to search the estate and find the bedroom and attic exactly how the kids left it. Plus Cory's body, as Cathy realized in Petals in the Wind they dumped Cory's body in the attic. I think the reason that was given was the three didn't want to be separate which make sense but I don't really think they would be. Once it hits the newspapers that four kids were locked in attic by their horrible mother and grandmother, abused and then tried to kill them all and seceded in killing one. They'd be flooded with people wanting to take in all three kids and by people better fit then creepy Paul who doesn't get them any help they need, zero therapy and thinks sending Carrie of all people off to a boarding school is an excellent idea. But it is possible they don't know that. It could still be possible that Paul ends up with custody of them since he rescued them and saved Carrie's life.  Although they really should end up with people who are going to get them the help they need medical and physically. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by andromeda331

[ElectricBoogaloo]

ITA that the best thing about Cathy was her unabashed need for revenge, which is what makes her different from other VC Andrews characters. Audrina just goes back to fucking Arden who cheated on her with Vera (and was going to let Vera pull the plug on her!) and her awful father. Heaven stays with lame Logan (he's nowhere near as bad as Arden, but I still hate what a sanctimonious dick he was about Heaven not being a virgin), even after he sleeps with Fanny. Cathy, on the other hand, burned because she needed revenge so badly. At least she had the common sense to know that she had been horribly abused and she tried to do something about it. (I don't consider any of the books after the Heaven series to really be VC Andrews books since all the ghost writer did was recycle the same tired plots with different names and locations so Cathy, Audrina, and Heaven are the only three protagonists that count)

While I don't necessarily agree that the method she chose was the best, it was clear that she had thought about it and believed this was the way to make her suffer the most. In the book, she talks about how she wanted her mother to lose her young hot husband and be left alone and that she wanted her mother never to be able to lay claim to them or see her grandchildren. She thought prison would be nothing compared to the torment of missing out on everything in their lives, which is why she kept sending her notes and letters. Later she found out from Bart that Corinne used to drag him to every performance that Cathy and Julian did and that she would look at an old photo album of their family and cry, so maybe she chose the correct method of revenge!

The other reason she chose not to go to the police was because Chris told her that if they tried to, social services would split them up. He was about to turn 18 when they escaped so he would be left to fend for himself (without a high school diploma or any work experience) which would mean no possibility of college and becoming a doctor. Cathy was 15 and Carrie was only 8, so they would be put into foster care and even they might not get to stay together. To Cathy, it was more important that the three of them stay together.

[andromeda331]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 6:24 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA that the best thing about Cathy was her unabashed need for revenge, which is what makes her different from other VC Andrews characters. Audrina just goes back to fucking Arden who cheated on her with Vera (and was going to let Vera pull the plug on her!) and her awful father. Heaven stays with lame Logan (he's nowhere near as bad as Arden, but I still hate what a sanctimonious dick he was about Heaven not being a virgin), even after he sleeps with Fanny. Cathy, on the other hand, burned because she needed revenge so badly. At least she had the common sense to know that she had been horribly abused and she tried to do something about it. (I don't consider any of the books after the Heaven series to really be VC Andrews books since all the ghost writer did was recycle the same tired plots with different names and locations so Cathy, Audrina, and Heaven are the only three protagonists that count)

While I don't necessarily agree that the method she chose was the best, it was clear that she had thought about it and believed this was the way to make her suffer the most. In the book, she talks about how she wanted her mother to lose her young hot husband and be left alone and that she wanted her mother never to be able to lay claim to them or see her grandchildren. She thought prison would be nothing compared to the torment of missing out on everything in their lives, which is why she kept sending her notes and letters. Later she found out from Bart that Corinne used to drag him to every performance that Cathy and Julian did and that she would look at an old photo album of their family and cry, so maybe she chose the correct method of revenge!

It really was. Cathy needed revenge, she was angry over what happened to her and her siblings. The other VC Andrews girls always just ended up letting it go and end up remaining with their crappy family and husband. After reading what each girl went through I wanted to read about them getting back at who hurt them. I don't want to see Damian and Arden basically getting away with everything and Audrina remaining with them. No, they need to lose. Jail, murdered, something. They need to suffer for what they did. Tony needs to pay for what he did and I wanted to see Heaven kick Logan to the curb.  I don't agree with Cathy's method. She could have found other ways to make her mother suffer. But she really did think about it and she really need to do it. Given how Corinne did go to all of her performances Cathy probably was right. That was the best way to hurt her. It was great that after everything that Corinne did she finally paid the price. Locked up in an asylum everyone knows what she did to her kids. Olivia dies in the fire. 

Quote

 

The other reason she chose not to go to the police was because Chris told her that if they tried to, social services would split them up. He was about to turn 18 when they escaped so he would be left to fend for himself (without a high school diploma or any work experience) which would mean no possibility of college and becoming a doctor. Cathy was 15 and Carrie was only 8, so they would be put into foster care and even they might not get to stay together. To Cathy, it was more important that the three of them stay together.

 

So that was the reason. I thought it might be but wasn't sure if I was remembering wrong. I can see why Chris would think that but I do think he was wrong. Once the media found out what happened to them. They'd be flooded with calls from people wanting to take in all three kids. I bet colleges would be calling too with offering free rides. 

[Daisy]

On 9/10/2018 at 8:24 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA that the best thing about Cathy was her unabashed need for revenge, which is what makes her different from other VC Andrews characters. Audrina just goes back to fucking Arden who cheated on her with Vera (and was going to let Vera pull the plug on her!) and her awful father. Heaven stays with lame Logan (he's nowhere near as bad as Arden, but I still hate what a sanctimonious dick he was about Heaven not being a virgin), even after he sleeps with Fanny. Cathy, on the other hand, burned because she needed revenge so badly. At least she had the common sense to know that she had been horribly abused and she tried to do something about it. (I don't consider any of the books after the Heaven series to really be VC Andrews books since all the ghost writer did was recycle the same tired plots with different names and locations so Cathy, Audrina, and Heaven are the only three protagonists that count)

While I don't necessarily agree that the method she chose was the best, it was clear that she had thought about it and believed this was the way to make her suffer the most. In the book, she talks about how she wanted her mother to lose her young hot husband and be left alone and that she wanted her mother never to be able to lay claim to them or see her grandchildren. She thought prison would be nothing compared to the torment of missing out on everything in their lives, which is why she kept sending her notes and letters. Later she found out from Bart that Corinne used to drag him to every performance that Cathy and Julian did and that she would look at an old photo album of their family and cry, so maybe she chose the correct method of revenge!

The other reason she chose not to go to the police was because Chris told her that if they tried to, social services would split them up. He was about to turn 18 when they escaped so he would be left to fend for himself (without a high school diploma or any work experience) which would mean no possibility of college and becoming a doctor. Cathy was 15 and Carrie was only 8, so they would be put into foster care and even they might not get to stay together. To Cathy, it was more important that the three of them stay together.

I could have sworn some of Dawn was written by V.C. (though near the end was very "cut/rinse/repeat" I think that was one of my favourite series though, the first three anyway, the Daughter/Grandma book was very cookie cutter and dumb). 

I personally feel that  what happened in Heaven  - would have been different had V.C. not have died I mean this is obvious - but - as book 1 and 2 were written by VC and books 3-5 were not you could tell the tone change. I don't think Heaven would have stayed with Logan due to what she knew about he and Fanny (which was also deliciously twisted in itself). But I like though how Heaven became everything she hated in her quest for power. Not cruel per-se but just looking down at everyone, being judgemental, buying Drake . it was awesome. 

I honestly feel they just wanted to keep the secret. If they went to the police - it would have come out that they were products of incest and who knows how sympathy would have run then. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

OMG I just found out that the ghost writer released a sequel to My Sweet Audrina in July 2016. How did I not know about this until now?! It’s called Whitefern and it takes place several years after the original book ends. I haven’t read it but most of the reviews I read said it was horrible (no surprise there). 

Minor plot details:

Spoiler

The book begins with Damian’s death. His will leaves 51% of his company to Audrina which angers Arden. If you hated Arden in the original, you will hate him even more now that he is a rageaholic who throws Audrina’s child assault in her face  

Sylvia is now a talented artist who can speak in complete sentences when the plot calls for it  

Audrina is unable to get pregnant  

 

The big twist:

Spoiler

Sylvia gets pregnant, ostensibly by her art teacher, but it turns out that Arden is the father  

 

There - saved everyone the $7 and two hours you would have wasted on this book. 

 

On 9/22/2018 at 3:48 PM, Daisy said:

I could have sworn some of Dawn was written by V.C. (though near the end was very "cut/rinse/repeat" I think that was one of my favourite series though, the first three anyway, the Daughter/Grandma book was very cookie cutter and dumb). 

According to everything I’ve seen at various sources, VC Andrews had nothing to do with Dawn or any of the later series. Despite the note from the family and publisher in the books published shortly after her death that said the ghost writer was using her notes to finish the Dollanganger and Casteel series, I found this info:

Quote

According to court records, the estate originally gave Neiderman permission to finish Andrews' original series (Garden of Shadows and the last three Casteel books). The same records state that Neiderman didn't use any of Andrews' notes or drafts for those books. After that, the publisher gave Neiderman a contract to continue writing books to be published under Andrews' name

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

OMG I just found out that the ghost writer released a sequel to My Sweet Audrina in July 2016. How did I not know about this until now?! It’s called Whitefern and it takes place several years after the original book ends. I haven’t read it but most of the reviews I read said it was horrible (no surprise there). 

Minor plot details:

  Reveal hidden contents

The book begins with Damian’s death. His will leaves 51% of his company to Audrina which angers Arden. If you hated Arden in the original, you will hate him even more now that he is a rageaholic who throws Audrina’s child assault in her face  

Sylvia is now a talented artist who can speak in complete sentences when the plot calls for it  

Audrina is unable to get pregnant  

 

The big twist:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sylvia gets pregnant, ostensibly by her art teacher, but it turns out that Arden is the father  

 

There - saved everyone the $7 and two hours you would have wasted on this book. 

 

According to everything I’ve seen at various sources, VC Andrews had nothing to do with Dawn or any of the later series. Despite the note from the family and publisher in the books published shortly after her death that said the ghost writer was using her notes to finish the Dollanganger and Casteel series, I found this info:

Spoiler

Wow, that's horrible. I also don't by Sylvia sleeping with Arden. Murdering him sure. But not that.

So he really didn't have any notes for Dawn or any other books. I really leaned towards him not because it felt different from the other two. But it wasn't completely impossible that VC Andrew might have a had notes for other books, outlines or even just ideas. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

  Hide contents

Wow, that's horrible. I also don't by Sylvia sleeping with Arden. Murdering him sure. But not that.

 

I haven't read the book myself so I can't say for certain but based on what some of the reviews said:

Spoiler

I don't think it was consensual.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I managed to find a copy of Whitefern today and I can now confirm that IT SUCKS. A good portion of the book is Audrina talking about the events in the first book (just in her head, although a few times she and Arden discuss some of what happened in MSA) and telling us things that Aunt Ellsbeth allegedly said (even though we never heard her say most of these things in the first book). In other words, lots of filler. Arden is an even bigger jerk than he was in MSA (and I already loathed him in the first book so I didn't know that was possible). Sylvia is 20 which means that it's eight years after MSA ended and Audrina is 31.

There are some really annoying inconsistencies from the first book, the biggest one being that in Whitefern, it's mentioned more than once  that Damian and Billie were married. Another one: in Whitefern, it's said that Billie's legs were amputated due to diabetes but if I recall correctly, she cut herself when she fell ice skating and the wound became infected. It's pretty pathetic when there's only ONE book you have to keep track of and the ghost writer can't even handle that amount of information.

The actual plot can be summed up pretty quickly:

Spoiler

The book begins with Damian's death. He left 51% of the company which enrages Arden because he thinks he should have it all. He demands that Audrina sign her half of the company over to him and she refuses. Sylvia begins rocking in the infamous rocking chair and says that Damian tells her secrets while she's in the rocking chair. She claims Damian told her that a baby would be coming soon. This seems unlikely because Audrina has not been able to get pregnant in the 10+ years that she's been married to Arden. When Audrina tells Arden what Sylvia said, he rapes Audrina AGAIN. For the record, when Audrina brings up the possibility of adopting, Arden talks about how he doesn't want to raise some stranger's kid and how he wants the baby to be biologically his. Yup, he's one of Those Guys.

Audrina is concerned about Sylvia's reaction to Damian's death so she hires an art teacher to come to the house a few times a week. Arden thinks it's a waste of money. He also never misses an opportunity to complain about how useless Sylvia and describe her as mentally deficient but Audrina refuses to entertain the idea of putting her in an institution. One day, Audrina goes into the cupola where Sylvia is having her art lesson and finds her undressed while the art teacher draws her. Audrina throws his ass out. Sylvia keeps telling her that a baby is coming so Audrina begins to suspect that the art teacher raped Sylvia and got her pregnant.

Arden calls a retired nurse he knows and has her examine Sylvia. The nurse confirms that Sylvia is six weeks pregnant. Arden suggests that (and get ready for the obvious plot recycling here) Audrina pretend to be pregnant and then raise Sylvia's baby as her and Arden's child. Audrina reluctantly agrees. Arden hires the nurse to come to the house a few days a week for the beginning of the pregnancy and then she eventually moves into the house. Insert recycled plotline about Audrina feeling like a prisoner in her house because the nurse won't let her leave the house. When Audrina asks Arden how he was able to hire this nurse, he says that he knows a big secret of hers but won't tell Audrina what the secret is.

After the baby is born (a girl named Adelle), Nurse Ratchet moves out but not before making some pointed remarks to Audrina but the light bulb doesn't go off until later when she is visited by the widow of Sylvia's art teacher. Mrs. Art Teacher says that her husband died recently and that she wanted to try to explain and apologize for her husband who just saw Sylvia as a beautiful art subject. Audrina loses her temper and tells Mrs. Art Teacher that her husband raped and impregnated Sylvia. Mrs. Art Teacher says that isn't possible because he had testicular cancer in his 20s and the radiation made him sterile. She says they tried having kids but eventually adopted.

Audrina finally realizes that Arden was raping Sylvia to get her pregnant so that he could have kids that were biologically from his family and Audrina's family. He says he can do it again later because he still wants a son. He admits that when Sylvia was in the rocking chair, he would whisper things while pretending to be Damian. When Audrina is understandably upset about all of this, he tells her that it was a good plan and that she should be thanking him. When Audrina tells him that she will not sign the papers giving Arden control of the company, he freaks out. Audrina tells him to move out of the house. As they are arguing on the staircase of doom (killer of Ellsbeth, Billie, and Vera), Sylvia pushes him and HE DIES. Audrina tells the police that he was drunk and fell.

Right after the nurse moves out, Audrina makes Arden tell her what he was holding over the nurse's head to get her to work for them and keep their secret about the baby's parentage. He says that her son was one of the boys that raped Audrina. Arden told the nurse that if she helped take care of Sylvia during her pregnancy and didn't tell anyone the truth about the baby, he wouldn't go to the police about her son. What a thoughtful and considerate husband, keeping the identity of one of his wife's rapists a secret from her but using the information to blackmail the rapist's mother!

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I managed to find a copy of Whitefern today and I can now confirm that IT SUCKS. A good portion of the book is Audrina talking about the events in the first book (just in her head, although a few times she and Arden discuss some of what happened in MSA) and telling us things that Aunt Ellsbeth allegedly said (even though we never heard her say most of these things in the first book). In other words, lots of filler. Arden is an even bigger jerk than he was in MSA (and I already loathed him in the first book so I didn't know that was possible). Sylvia is 20 which means that it's eight years after MSA ended and Audrina is 31.

There are some really annoying inconsistencies from the first book, the biggest one being that in Whitefern, it's mentioned more than once  that Damian and Billie were married. Another one: in Whitefern, it's said that Billie's legs were amputated due to diabetes but if I recall correctly, she cut herself when she fell ice skating and the wound became infected. It's pretty pathetic when there's only ONE book you have to keep track of and the ghost writer can't even handle that amount of information.

The actual plot can be summed up pretty quickly:

  Reveal hidden contents

The book begins with Damian's death. He left 51% of the company which enrages Arden because he thinks he should have it all. He demands that Audrina sign her half of the company over to him and she refuses. Sylvia begins rocking in the infamous rocking chair and says that Damian tells her secrets while she's in the rocking chair. She claims Damian told her that a baby would be coming soon. This seems unlikely because Audrina has not been able to get pregnant in the 10+ years that she's been married to Arden. When Audrina tells Arden what Sylvia said, he rapes Audrina AGAIN. For the record, when Audrina brings up the possibility of adopting, Arden talks about how he doesn't want to raise some stranger's kid and how he wants the baby to be biologically his. Yup, he's one of Those Guys.

Audrina is concerned about Sylvia's reaction to Damian's death so she hires an art teacher to come to the house a few times a week. Arden thinks it's a waste of money. He also never misses an opportunity to complain about how useless Sylvia and describe her as mentally deficient but Audrina refuses to entertain the idea of putting her in an institution. One day, Audrina goes into the cupola where Sylvia is having her art lesson and finds her undressed while the art teacher draws her. Audrina throws his ass out. Sylvia keeps telling her that a baby is coming so Audrina begins to suspect that the art teacher raped Sylvia and got her pregnant.

Arden calls a retired nurse he knows and has her examine Sylvia. The nurse confirms that Sylvia is six weeks pregnant. Arden suggests that (and get ready for the obvious plot recycling here) Audrina pretend to be pregnant and then raise Sylvia's baby as her and Arden's child. Audrina reluctantly agrees. Arden hires the nurse to come to the house a few days a week for the beginning of the pregnancy and then she eventually moves into the house. Insert recycled plotline about Audrina feeling like a prisoner in her house because the nurse won't let her leave the house. When Audrina asks Arden how he was able to hire this nurse, he says that he knows a big secret of hers but won't tell Audrina what the secret is.

After the baby is born (a girl named Adelle), Nurse Ratchet moves out but not before making some pointed remarks to Audrina but the light bulb doesn't go off until later when she is visited by the widow of Sylvia's art teacher. Mrs. Art Teacher says that her husband died recently and that she wanted to try to explain and apologize for her husband who just saw Sylvia as a beautiful art subject. Audrina loses her temper and tells Mrs. Art Teacher that her husband raped and impregnated Sylvia. Mrs. Art Teacher says that isn't possible because he had testicular cancer in his 20s and the radiation made him sterile. She says they tried having kids but eventually adopted.

Audrina finally realizes that Arden was raping Sylvia to get her pregnant so that he could have kids that were biologically from his family and Audrina's family. He says he can do it again later because he still wants a son. He admits that when Sylvia was in the rocking chair, he would whisper things while pretending to be Damian. When Audrina is understandably upset about all of this, he tells her that it was a good plan and that she should be thanking him. When Audrina tells him that she will not sign the papers giving Arden control of the company, he freaks out. Audrina tells him to move out of the house. As they are arguing on the staircase of doom (killer of Ellsbeth, Billie, and Vera), Sylvia pushes him and HE DIES. Audrina tells the police that he was drunk and fell.

Right after the nurse moves out, Audrina makes Arden tell her what he was holding over the nurse's head to get her to work for them and keep their secret about the baby's parentage. He says that her son was one of the boys that raped Audrina. Arden told the nurse that if she helped take care of Sylvia during her pregnancy and didn't tell anyone the truth about the baby, he wouldn't go to the police about her son. What a thoughtful and considerate husband, keeping the identity of one of his wife's rapists a secret from her but using the information to blackmail the rapist's mother!

Spoiler

Wow, that is so much worse. Why can't any of these villains ever get what they deserve? I mean screw Arden why can't Audrina murder the bastard or Sylvia murder him? Oh no let's keep Arden and make him even worse then he was one the first book which is a huge order considering how horrible he was in that book. Why can't Audrina divorce him at any point and find someone better? Again the still was no reason for her to remain at the end of MSA after the shitty and horribleness of Damian and Arden. Can't the two end up paying for their crap? Violently murdered or something? 

[Snow Apple]

Wow. If I didn't already think the ghostwriter was a hack, this cinched it. Yeah Arden was terrible in MSA but I still can't imagine him being like that and doing that stuff.

This guy is ruining Ms Andrews legacy. He's nothing but a fanfiction writer and a bad one at that. Is he still earning money for the estate? Otherwise I can't imagine what he has over their heads that he's still has the job when there are many good writers out there.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Not only was it a stupid storyline but it was padded with so much filler. If you can believe it, that book was almost 400 pages long. How did he manage to stretch that very simplistic (and, frankly, unoriginal) storyline out that much? With too much rehashing of the first book and A LOT of Audrina telling us things that she claimed Aunt Ellsbeth said.

The other really bad thing about the book is that the characters speak in a very contemporary way. Anyone who has read the older VCA books knows that she wrote their dialogue in a very specific way. The dialogue in Whitefern is very modern which makes it seem like it's not a VC Andrews book at all.

There was nothing redeeming about this book. Okay, maybe ONE thing:

Spoiler

Arden is finally dead and gone!

It's not worth reading this shitty book to get that one thing though.

Edited September 25, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I managed to find a copy of Whitefern today and I can now confirm that IT SUCKS. A good portion of the book is Audrina talking about the events in the first book (just in her head, although a few times she and Arden discuss some of what happened in MSA) and telling us things that Aunt Ellsbeth allegedly said (even though we never heard her say most of these things in the first book). In other words, lots of filler. Arden is an even bigger jerk than he was in MSA (and I already loathed him in the first book so I didn't know that was possible). Sylvia is 20 which means that it's eight years after MSA ended and Audrina is 31.

There are some really annoying inconsistencies from the first book, the biggest one being that in Whitefern, it's mentioned more than once  that Damian and Billie were married. Another one: in Whitefern, it's said that Billie's legs were amputated due to diabetes but if I recall correctly, she cut herself when she fell ice skating and the wound became infected. It's pretty pathetic when there's only ONE book you have to keep track of and the ghost writer can't even handle that amount of information.

The actual plot can be summed up pretty quickly:

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The book begins with Damian's death. He left 51% of the company which enrages Arden because he thinks he should have it all. He demands that Audrina sign her half of the company over to him and she refuses. Sylvia begins rocking in the infamous rocking chair and says that Damian tells her secrets while she's in the rocking chair. She claims Damian told her that a baby would be coming soon. This seems unlikely because Audrina has not been able to get pregnant in the 10+ years that she's been married to Arden. When Audrina tells Arden what Sylvia said, he rapes Audrina AGAIN. For the record, when Audrina brings up the possibility of adopting, Arden talks about how he doesn't want to raise some stranger's kid and how he wants the baby to be biologically his. Yup, he's one of Those Guys.

Audrina is concerned about Sylvia's reaction to Damian's death so she hires an art teacher to come to the house a few times a week. Arden thinks it's a waste of money. He also never misses an opportunity to complain about how useless Sylvia and describe her as mentally deficient but Audrina refuses to entertain the idea of putting her in an institution. One day, Audrina goes into the cupola where Sylvia is having her art lesson and finds her undressed while the art teacher draws her. Audrina throws his ass out. Sylvia keeps telling her that a baby is coming so Audrina begins to suspect that the art teacher raped Sylvia and got her pregnant.

Arden calls a retired nurse he knows and has her examine Sylvia. The nurse confirms that Sylvia is six weeks pregnant. Arden suggests that (and get ready for the obvious plot recycling here) Audrina pretend to be pregnant and then raise Sylvia's baby as her and Arden's child. Audrina reluctantly agrees. Arden hires the nurse to come to the house a few days a week for the beginning of the pregnancy and then she eventually moves into the house. Insert recycled plotline about Audrina feeling like a prisoner in her house because the nurse won't let her leave the house. When Audrina asks Arden how he was able to hire this nurse, he says that he knows a big secret of hers but won't tell Audrina what the secret is.

After the baby is born (a girl named Adelle), Nurse Ratchet moves out but not before making some pointed remarks to Audrina but the light bulb doesn't go off until later when she is visited by the widow of Sylvia's art teacher. Mrs. Art Teacher says that her husband died recently and that she wanted to try to explain and apologize for her husband who just saw Sylvia as a beautiful art subject. Audrina loses her temper and tells Mrs. Art Teacher that her husband raped and impregnated Sylvia. Mrs. Art Teacher says that isn't possible because he had testicular cancer in his 20s and the radiation made him sterile. She says they tried having kids but eventually adopted.

Audrina finally realizes that Arden was raping Sylvia to get her pregnant so that he could have kids that were biologically from his family and Audrina's family. He says he can do it again later because he still wants a son. He admits that when Sylvia was in the rocking chair, he would whisper things while pretending to be Damian. When Audrina is understandably upset about all of this, he tells her that it was a good plan and that she should be thanking him. When Audrina tells him that she will not sign the papers giving Arden control of the company, he freaks out. Audrina tells him to move out of the house. As they are arguing on the staircase of doom (killer of Ellsbeth, Billie, and Vera), Sylvia pushes him and HE DIES. Audrina tells the police that he was drunk and fell.

Right after the nurse moves out, Audrina makes Arden tell her what he was holding over the nurse's head to get her to work for them and keep their secret about the baby's parentage. He says that her son was one of the boys that raped Audrina. Arden told the nurse that if she helped take care of Sylvia during her pregnancy and didn't tell anyone the truth about the baby, he wouldn't go to the police about her son. What a thoughtful and considerate husband, keeping the identity of one of his wife's rapists a secret from her but using the information to blackmail the rapist's mother!

 

9 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Not only was it a stupid storyline but it was padded with so much filler. If you can believe it, that book was almost 400 pages long. How did he manage to stretch that very simplistic (and, frankly, unoriginal) storyline out that much? With too much rehashing of the first book and A LOT of Audrina telling us things that she claimed Aunt Ellsbeth said.

The other really bad thing about the book is that the characters speak in a very contemporary way. Anyone who has read the older VCA books knows that she wrote their dialogue in a very specific way. The dialogue in Whitefern is very modern which makes it seem like it's not a VC Andrews book at all.

There was nothing redeeming about this book. Okay, maybe ONE thing:

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Arden is finally dead and gone!

Spoiler

Good Lord, Arden might end up being one of the worst villains in the VC World. Raping his wife's developmentally delayed sister? Bullying Audrina to get her money? Honestly, death was too good for this guy. I guess when someone is raised as fucked up as Audrina it is unlikely that she will marry a prince charming but this is really over the top. Death is too good for this guy.

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by qtpye