S10.E19: Beyond Borders

[thewhiteowl]

 

When a family of four is abducted while on vacation in Barbados, the BAU is called to assist Unit Chief Jack Garrett (Sinise) and his International Unit on their investigation.  Garrett and his unit, the FBI's top division for handling cases involving Americans abroad, work jointly with Hotch and his team when they discover that this case matches one the BAU investigated last year in Florida.

 

[Danielg342]

Still April 8, right?

[normasm]

Yep, they were still filming scenes last week, so they're not ready this week, that's for sure.

[Danielg342]

Not a good sign if they're re-filming. Hopefully they'll be ready for next week.

[zannej]

Harry Bring said they were re-shooting scenes to clarify something. So I guess when they looked at it, they realized something wasn't evident or clear enough to the audience. I wonder if they would have done re-shoots if it had just been a regular episode and not a backdoor pilot (I can't read/type that phrase without giggling bc I think of something perverted). I sort of suspect that they would have let it slide if it was just a regular episode. Which is kind of sad.

[normasm]

There have been many times where we fans have scratched our heads trying to figure what piece was cut out of the puzzle because a story doesn't make sense, A + B = F or something. I do think it's because it's something "special", i.e. not a regular episode.

[zannej]

There have been many times where we fans have scratched our heads trying to figure what piece was cut out of the puzzle because a story doesn't make sense, A + B = F or something. I do think it's because it's something "special", i.e. not a regular episode.

Yeah, I remember quite a few times when I said "Wait.. how did they get that info?" or "What? From who's ass did they pull that out?"

[thewhiteowl]

 

When a family of four is abducted while on vacation in Barbados, the BAU is called to assist Unit Chief Jack Garrett (Sinise) and his International Unit on their investigation.  Garrett and his unit, the FBI's top division for handling cases involving Americans abroad, work jointly with Hotch and his team when they discover that this case matches one the BAU investigated last year in Florida.

 

 

[Danielg342]

I wonder how many similarities this will have to the Natalee Holloway case...almost feels like a similar premise.

[spinner33]

Since it's an entire family, I wonder if they'll base it on the recent missing persons' case that was solved in California, the McStay family.  They were found dead in the desert.  There were rumors for years that they had walked away into Mexico, or that the children had been kidnapped and taken into Mexico.   The father's brother knew all along that his brother would never leave that way, but everyone else kept saying they had left of their own accord. Rumors about drugs and their supposed hippy lifestyle and all that were blamed.  But it was obvious from the way the crime scene was left (interrupted at mealtime with things left out) that the family had been abducted against their will.  It turned out it was the business partner of the father who was responsible for the family's deaths.   

[ForeverAlone]

Here is a little intro video for this episode. I just hope it is better than "The Fight."

http://tvline.com/2015/04/06/criminal-minds-spinoff-preview-video-beyond-borders/

[zannej]

Thanks for that info, spinner. I hadn't heard about that case.

 

Thanks for the video link, ForeverAlone. It actually looks somewhat interesting. I have to admit that I had a completely irrational reaction to Erica every time she was on screen. I just wanted to slap her and tell her to STFU. I think I need a Snickers or something...

[normasm]

There's a half-second glimpse of Reid's hair, and nothing beyond. I see Morgan back in the back twice, JJ featured momentarily, and Garcia with the extra special Monty (ergh). This looks dreadful. But i know, thewhiteowl wants us to wait. I'll try to be good.

[Starchild]

This feels like a back-door pilot. Is this "International Unit" part of the FBI? I thought the FBI's mandate was purely domestic, though granted I am no expert.

[Danielg342]

It is a backdoor pilot. Also, infer what you will from it, but on The Blacklist it was mentioned that, internationally, the FBI holds jurisdiction in American matters.

[ForeverAlone]

An interview with Erica about the spinoff.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/criminal-minds-spin-off-erica-messer-gary-sinise/

[ForeverAlone]

Here are some spinoff sneak peeks. Reid and Kate fans are going to have fun trying to spot them. :)

http://criminalmindsroundtable.blogspot.com/2015/04/criminal-minds-season-10-1019-beyond_44.html?m=1

[normasm]

Looks like this series ought to be renamed Criminal Monty. Let's see: he's a genius who draws; he is a hacker/computer wizard; and he liaises with the families. Just fire Reid Garcia and JJ, why do you need all those bodies when just one Special Someone embodies everything the world needs….

 

Oh, and he profiles, too! Those license plates being so easy to trace must mean…. yes! it's a signature!

[ForeverAlone]

Another interview with Erica about the spinoff.

http://tvline.com/2015/04/07/criminal-minds-spinoff-beyond-borders-preview/

[MCatry]

Well, I just saw the sneak peeks. The four of them.

I honestly can't understand why the CBS believed these were good audience catchers.

I am so-not-watching-this.

[missmycat]

Well, I just saw the sneak peeks. The four of them.

I honestly can't understand why the CBS believed these were good audience catchers.

I am so-not-watching-this.

Neither am I, as I am expecting little to no Reid in this since it is an Erica Messer penned episode, although I do like Gary Sinise. Anyways my interest in the spin off waned quite a bit when I found out we wouldn't be getting rid of EM as some of us had hoped.

[Bookish Jen]

Well, I just saw the sneak peeks. The four of them.

I honestly can't understand why the CBS believed these were good audience catchers.

I am so-not-watching-this.

I agree. Why not improve Criminal Minds: Original Recipe instead of making a whole new show? Sometimes I think my demented cat could run this show better than some of the powers that be.

 

And since Erica Messer penned this episode I guess I can concentrate on writing a book review rather than concentrate on the show. Reid will barely matter. Gee, I wonder what Matthew did to have Erica marginalize his character so much? Pee in her Wheaties?

[normasm]

Thanks, Bookish, now I have that image stuck in my head…. XO

[Bookish Jen]

Thanks, Bookish, now I have that image stuck in my head…. XO

Aww, hugs back to you, normasm. "Pee in his/her Wheaties" is just a weird expression I discovered, and often use. I'm completely clueless on what Matthew could have done to make Erica throw him and Reid under a figurative bus. I've never heard of Matthew acting like a male diva on the set; he seem genuinely happy for his CM experience, especially when it comes to the directing opportunities CM afforded him. And I also haven't heard of him acting like a douchebag elsewhere. ::shrugs shoulders::

 

On-topic: I will watch this episode because it's CM and apparently I am an empty shell with no life. And I do like Gary Sinise. He's a great actor.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Bookish Jen

[normasm]

Yeah, bookish, even if MGG had acted like a diva onset, isn't that the purported default for actors? It's more remarkable if an actor doesn't make some sort of enemy onset, whether it be cast, crew or TPTB. 

 

I'll watch, too, because I can't complain (or praise) for reals unless I've seen it at least once… Happy watching to us all!

[SSAHotchner]

Haven't looked at the previews because my husband and I are watching something together right now. I do want to say, though, that I think it's crappy using CM to promote this new show. It may be a great show. They certainly assembled a good cast. I just don't want to tune in tonight to see CM and have it be all about this other team. I'm already plenty annoyed that my favorites barely get shown as it is. 

[JMO]

So, here's the thing.  Why in the world would you bother to create a show that is premised on an FBI unit getting involved with Americans in trouble in foreign countries-----and then include absolutely nothing about language (English or Creole in Barbados, so a moot point) or culture?  Isn't that what would make the premise actually interesting?  Was there even any interaction with local law enforcement, which might have provided some of the inherent conflict one might expect?  I appreciated the acknowledgement that one needs to be familiar with the law of the crime-hosting country, but since it played no role in this story, it was a non-starter for me.  It would have been far more interesting if the BAU had traveled to a substantially foreign place and had to rely on the new team's expertise about how to operate there. 

 

Instead, we got a story that could easily have taken place in the states---including an American unsub----being investigated by people we don't know. I'd resigned myself to not seeing a CM episode this week.  Instead, I got one, inhabited by a bunch of strangers. 

 

If they want this show to take off, they're going to have to find a way to differentiate it from CM.  There wasn't even a hint of that tonight.

 

Oh, and------it failed the Reid-meter.

Edited April 9, 2015 by JustMyOpinion

[normasm]

Way way waaaaaay too many cooks in this kitchen. There was no need for Rossi, Hotch Morgan and JJ to pile in the bus with the other team. They could have had one or two of the BAU consult over the phone with the BB team and go over the local case connection in DC. No need for both Garcia and Monty, when Monty does everything perfectly.

They should have just made a standalone pilot with 3 or 4 of the CM cast consulting, to draw interest, because this wasn't a CM episode and shouldn't be taking up the space a CM episode should have.

I thought the pilot cast were wooden and bland, and they managed to have Monty make Garcia look even more clueless and ridiculous than she has been in the past. A few glimpses of Reid and Kate is criminal in its underuse of their characters. As JMO pointed out, why was this an international thing? There was no really big distinction between the teams, and more overlap of skills than the last backdoor pilot team.

[Chaos Theory]

I liked it but then again I will watch it just for Anna Gunn. I have been getting bored of the OG Criminal Minds and if it wasn't for AJ Cook and Thomas Gibson I'd have abandoned the ship a long time ago.

[Eliza422]

I'm still watching the ep, but the second I saw Gary Sinise I yelled "Not a fucking backdoor pilot!!!!"

Barf....

It has all the earmarks...sudden relationships between the regular cast and these unknowns, the exposition dump of a lot story lines with the new people (a brother in Thai prison? Ugh...)...regular characters saying how awesome all the unknowns are (I draw! I meet families! I have military contacts!)...regular characters playing the cabbage head role (JJ never thought it could rohypnol???)

What a waste of an hour...

[missmycat]

I liked it but then again I will watch it just for Anna Gunn. I have been getting bored of the OG Criminal Minds and if it wasn't for AJ Cook and Thomas Gibson I'd have abandoned the ship a long time ago.

I feel the opposite way because AJ Cook's character JJ is the biggest reason why this show is no longer must see tv for me. Nowadays Reid is the only thing that keeps me from losing interest altogether.

[Eliza422]

I feel the opposite way because AJ Cook's character JJ is the biggest reason why this show is no longer must see tv for me. Nowadays Reid is the only thing that keeps me from losing interest altogether.

Me too...no Reid, no Criminal Minds.

[Danielg342]

Did anyone else catch the snafu where the text at the bottom of the screen said the U.S. Embassy was in Bridgeport only for, seconds later, we see the facade of the building to reveal the embassy's actual- and correct- location in Bridgetown? I thought they re-shot this to correct mistakes...how did they not catch that?

 

I was ready to write this screed about there's no Bridgeport in Barbados, and that the capital is Bridgetown, but then I realized someone on the production team made a mistake. A huge mistake, in my opinion.

 

Geographical errors, though, wasn't this episode's problem. As JustMyOpinon noted, this was basically a CM episode...in another setting. Note how I didn't say "another country" because, truth be told, this other place didn't act like another country...I mean, even all the extras were practically American. The only differences we had were the weather and the fact that the main "island security" agent was black ('cause, you know, head honchos in the U.S. are never black...they're always white...at least they are when they have a role in the plot and they're not in the background like...oh wait...). I echo what JMO said in that this would be far more interesting if the team had to worry about how to deal with foreign cultures and laws, not just because it provides a challenge- something conspicuously absent tonight besides lip service- but because at least it makes it different.

 

I look at "Machismo" as a great example about how this could have been done. I know it has its detractors- mostly because it was a bit simplistic- but I think it provided a great example that people in different countries do things differently. My memory is a little hazy concerning the episode since it was a long while since I saw it, but one of the scenes I remember well was when Gideon had to explain to Mexican officials that not all people who cross-dress were potential UnSubs...that was just a part of his persona, and they had to look for other characteristics as well before making an arrest. Say what you will about its portrayal of Mexicans as "backwards", but the truth is, this kind of thinking happens a lot in Hispanic countries, who are- for the lack of better terms- not quite as used to the idea of LGTB people as North Americans and Europeans are (and I'm not sure there are a lot of people in the West who are truly comfortable with LGTB people, truth be told). I thought it was a great plot point and drove home the challenges the BAU would face when having to deal with a foreign investigation...and yet, in a show that's supposed to be "international", we didn't get any of that.

 

Pity. I mean, The Blacklist did it better...The freakin' Blacklist. The show where the FBI are a bunch of Keystone Kops that bungle just about everything so that the show's main character can look smart. In "Ruslan Denisov"- where the titular character was played by Faran Tahir- the FBI had to deal with local resistence over coming into their territory, and to solve the case, they needed to have an understanding of the problems Uzbekistan actually faced, in this case being the locals were getting sick because of a rusty oil pipeline. Sure, it glossed over a few things, but at least the show acknowledged that Uzbekistan is a different country with different challenges.

 

(You know, as an aside, The Blacklist tends to get its geography right- in addition to getting Uzbekistan and its capital (Tashkent) right, one episode actually acknowledged that Toronto is a major world centre, unlike so many other Hollywood duds- so there's a lot "Beyond Borders" could learn from them. Never thought I'd say that but...here I am)

 

Then we meet the team...Garrett, Matt Simmons, Anna Gunn's character (who's name escapes me...bad sign) and Monty. Or, as I call them, "the FBI's team of Mary Sues!" I'll get to Monty in a minute, because he was bad- as bad as I thought he would be- but the rest of the team didn't fare much better. Gunn's character had the requisite "angst" line where we're obliged to give her instant sympathy because her brother was framed for a crime she says he didn't commit, Simmons was practically a robot that has no actual emotions or fears (he was only given life because Daniel Henney played him beautifully, so A+ to him), and Garrett can somehow make Rossi stand in awe because, you know, Garrett kept his family together and stuff.

 

Everybody was oh so...perfect!

 

Then we get Monty.

 

Oh Monty...where do I begin? I never thought I could ever see Garcia, ever more the insufferable, unbearable child in this one, as an actual human being but Monty managed to do it. I mean, seriously...he knows exactly what to say to the families to keep their hopes up, he knew how to find all the clues, he acts like nothing bothers him, and, worse than that, knows exactly what to say to Garcia to calm her down and get her to focus on the case and not the...unpleasent stuff.

 

You know, I actually thought Monty, who was so smug and arrogant, would have made a great psychopath...but then I realized I'm supposed to like this character...and, well...there goes my lunch.

 

I mean, for all the faults CM has in its characterization, we can least take comfort in that the characters we see actually have flaws and aren't so perfect...that makes them relatable. Sure, I don't want to see characters that have no strengths to speak of, but whoever came up with these characters forgot that audiences root for characters because they're able to overcome their faults, not because they don't have any. I mean, what exactly does Garrett want for keeping his family together? A ribbon? A gold star? Free drinks at Club 54? It's just so...belch.

 

I suppose I should spend a few minutes on the case, although I don't think it matters much since I suppose the spinoff will have different writers and they won't always succumb to the pratfalls many of the CM cases fall to nowadays...but I will say the acting was great in that I actually did get a sense of the terror that family was feeling and that the UnSub was inflicting on them, even if the family was a bit clueless (how many times did they have the opportunity to escape? Oh, and what would the UnSub have done if one of the family members didn't drink the "complimentary" water?). I also find it hard to believe that an airport shuttle stops at a certain time- maybe I could buy it in less "touristy" areas, but places like Barbados would certainly know that flights happen at every hour of the day. The resort business is huge, they wouldn't mess up a security detail like that.

 

Then I thought of other headscratchers...pretty sure Gunn said at one point that once the boat is in international waters the team couldn't do anything, but there they were at the end, apprehending- I mean, shooting- the bad guy. I also rolled my eyes at the Joran van der Sloot reference- I've read quite a bit about the Natalee Holloway case, and I can tell you the faults with the case have nothing to do with a failure to profile...that was just an awkward way to shorehorn the team into past cases. No, the Holloway case failed because the parents meddled in it way too much, and the police focused their attention too much on the same suspects without considering other possibilities. Nice try for relevance...but it failed...and it made Gunn's character look more like an idiot.

 

Will I watch this come fall? Maybe...but this was not a good start.

[Just Here]

This is my first Criminal Minds episode in a long while, so I'll concentrate on the pilot-y stuff and nitpicks...
 
 
Starting with the biggest nitpick... (I'm not an expert, I just know where to look...)
 
HOLY DIPLOMATIC INCIDENT, BATMAN!  (Maybe): The FBI raiding a foreign-flagged* vessel on the high seas, apparently without asking permission of the vessel's home nation.  This appears to be a big diplomatic faux pas, and I was all set for a big rant...
 
But, after doing some digging, the FBI might be able to get away with just a little scolding:  The FBI could probably justify the raid, if the UnSub's vessel could be considered a "pirate ship,"  due to how he is using the ship and how broad the definition of piracy is. (E.g., from the 1958 Convention on the High Seas, which the USA is a signatory, "piracy" is defined as "[a]ny illegal acts of violence... committed for private ends by the crew... or the passengers of a private ship... and directed... [o]n the high seas,...against persons or property on board such ship.")  And, if  the piracy exception did not apply, then international maritime law may have an emergency or exigent circumstances exception, but this was a planned raid and not a U.S. Navy vessel just coming upon a hostage situation.
 
In any case, not following the diplomatic norms, when they could have been easily followed, does this make this a notable faux pas. 
 
*I'm assuming that this is the case, based on Anna Gunn's dialogue, but I don't remember seeing a specific flag.  And, if there was no flag flying, then any nation could have boarded the ship without any additional requirements.

 

Then I thought of other headscratchers...pretty sure Gunn said at one point that once the boat is in international waters the team couldn't do anything, but there they were at the end, apprehending- I mean, shooting- the bad guy.

 
Gunn's character said "The law of the ship is the law of the flag he's flying," (which could be considered more or less accurate, see, e.g. Article 6 of the Convention on the High Seas) followed by the bit of being in international waters you mentioned.  But, the untouchable part was definitely inaccurate, as all the USA would have to do is get permission from the vessel's home nation to board, or if there was a U.S. Navy ship or U.S. Coast Guard vessel nearby, they probably could have done a "papers, please" boarding.  Plus, there are exceptions for piracy, which is very broadly defined (see above) and unflagged vessels, among others.   (For a general discussion of boarding authority on the high seas, see this Naval War College student essay.)
 

So, here's the thing.  Why in the world would you bother to create a show that is premised on an FBI unit getting involved with Americans in trouble in foreign countries...  Was there even any interaction with local law enforcement, which might have provided some of the inherent conflict one might expect?

 
Exactly.  This new team should have been a floating group of FBI legal attachés ("legats" is the semi-official abbreviation) who consult with the local government's law enforcement on major cases that are too big for the resident legat(s) to handle alone. Following that premise, I would have made Anna Gunn's character the (unofficial) diplomat of the group, being the main one to liaise with the local law enforcement. 
 
And, if they went with the consulting angle, then they would not have to bother with the pesky long-arm jurisdiction issue every episode.  For example not every homicide of a U.S. National overseas is covered.  E.g., covered situations include when the perpetrator is also a U.S. Citizen (18 USC 1119), and when the victim is an employee of the federal government and is essentially killed because of that fact (18 USC 1114).
 
Also, with the legat angle, that could have reduced the number of regulars needed, allowing for more variety of guest stars, and potentially with less salary overhead.  Perhaps, this could be reduced to Leader Guy (e.g. Sinise) and Liaison Expert (e.g. Gunn), while having a Tech Person back in D.C., along with a B-Team of two Junior Profilers who execute search warrants and interview people back in the USA.
 
 
But, in this particular episode, when the teams arrived at the embassy, they used this throwaway dialogue to explain the reason why no local law enforcement was involved:
 

"Ambassador wants to keep this quiet..."
"So, he doesn't want the host government to be embarrassed..."

 
The embassy could have notified the host country, but it seems as if they didn't.  And, this could have been kept on down low, even with notification, if they used whatever unofficial or official liaising channels between the two countries.  And, nothing pisses a host government more than rogue foreign nationals, especially if they are not properly registered as foreign agents (e.g. see this Wikipedia page for the USA's law on foreign agents), covertly acting like cowboys on their soil.
 
In this episode, the police could have arrested Hotch for trespassing (running through the restaurant) and battery (searching the guy running with drugs).  And, looking through the guy's bag, which had drugs?  That could have easily been a trip down to the station.
 
 
Pilot-y Stuff & Other Nitpicks:

• This was way too weighted to the "same" side of the "same yet different" spinoff formula.
• Anna Gunn's character: They forced her backstory's exposition the most, first with the scene in her office, and then Hotch asking about her brother.
• Also, in Gunn's office scene, there was the "It's Lily" -- Call me by my first name, because I'm cool (and maybe maternal) and not some heartless bitch in a pants suit.
• Black Tech Guy over-promised the elderly parents ("I know we'll find...[the perp.]")
• Reid (I think) mentioning that one of the victims of having a "combination" of salt and fresh water in his lungs:  IT'S CALLED "BRACKISH!"

 

I'm not a fan of these backdoor pilots that take over their parent series' episode(s), though I understand why they're done for economic and contractual reasons.  That said, I would have preferred a more graduated introduction, say having Sinise and Gunn showing up earlier in the season, just helping a little on a case, or even some passing in the hallway scene.
 
Also, I think the better angle would have been to either (1) Have this episode's case be an unsolved case from earlier in the season, thus giving the Mothership BAU team a clear reason to consult on this case, or (2) Have this episode's case start overseas and move to the USA, so that the new team would be consulting with Mothership team, which would have kept the focus on the main team, and given the new series (if picked up) more time to figure out its plot logistics, such as foreign legal jurisdiction matters.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Just Here

[zannej]

I initially missed the first few minutes due to stomach issues and wasn't feeling all that great when I watched the rest. I did find a place to watch the episode again so I could catch what I missed, but I found that once I got to the part where I had initially started watching again, I had no interest in watching it again.

 

I will say that I liked most of the spinoff characters. I remember that Anna Gunn's character said her first name is Lily and that the last name is with an L. Lily Lambert? I can't remember. They seemed to be establishing that these characters had things more together than the original team-- with Simmons having 4 kids under 3 and Sinese's character (can't remember his name) being happily married.

 

This episode had several of the typical flaws that happen in an episode written by Erica Messer:

*Too much unsub

*Unsub revealed too early

*Not enough actual profiling

*Garcia behaves like a child

*Her favorites JJ and Morgan get more screentime and importance than many of the other team members

*Reid is pretty much kicked to the curb for no apparent reason (even though we heard Hotch telling him to stay behind with Kate-- there was no legitimate reason) and he didn't show signs of being a genius

*The team did things that violated actual laws-- like Hotch chasing down and tackling some dude in a hat because the guy got spooked and ran when he looked at him. From what I understand, the FBI would not be allowed to do that. 

 

 

I have to agree that there was a huge wasted opportunity to actually learn about the culture in Barbados, but I sort of doubt that Erica actually knows all that much about it herself. Even though she has an FBI consultant and has been with the show since the early days, she still doesn't seem to understand how law enforcement actually works.

 

As for FBI agents looking inept, to be perfectly honest, that may not be inaccurate. My father used to tell me about how anytime the feds got involved in something they would fuck it up. There was a reason other agencies called them "the fucking Feebs". Apparently there were a lot of arrogant agents who felt the need to try to boss other people around and they would not share vital information with other agencies. Granted, things may have changed since then. But the FBI agents had a reputation for being elitist pricks. Obviously, not all of them. My father did have some friends in the FBI who were good agents.

 

Oh yeah, on the food thing (where Rossi was all "you get to eat like this all the time?" or something like that) I have to call bullshit. The feds give people a limited budget for food and its not always realistic for the prices in the area. They will allot less than necessary to cover a single meal as the allowance for an entire day. But since both teams supposedly have a jet, I suppose we can ignore that one.

 

Anyway, on to Monty... It wasn't the character himself that bugged me, it was the way Garcia acted around him. I don't know if it was Kirsten, the dialog, or the directing, but there was just something very off about Garcia in that one. She was way too childish and clueless. Way too dependent and just came off as stupid. I actually liked Monty, but they were trying too hard to show him as so good compared to Garcia.

 

Another misstep I saw is that the writers should have been expecting some new viewers who would be watching for the first time to see Sinese and Gunn, so I think it would not have been bad to sort of establish the role of each of the original recipe BAU members with some one-liners or something. I felt like they really skipped over some of the interacting establishing whether or not characters like Reid and Kate knew the other team. They certainly had enough time for it-- time that was wasted showing the unsub and his flashbacks (some of which just looked very fake). Yes, we get it, the guy was abused. They didn't need to keep showing the flashbacks over and over. And we didn't need to see him terrorizing the family (whom we really didn't get to know much about).

 

I wasn't expecting there to be much Reid so I can't say that I was surprised, but I was still dismayed that Erica can't at least consult Sharon to get more of an idea of how Reid could show his genius without stepping on everyone else. I noticed that so much time was spent showing the new superteam and the unsub that they didn't even seem to try to work in little moments that were revealing about the original team members. I really hated seeing the original team playing second fiddle in their own show.

 

I'm sure the Hotch fans appreciated that he got to wear a shortsleeved shit and chase people down, but it was not even a legal takedown. It's like most of the men in the episode were just eye candy. Hell, Reid was all dressed up and pretty looking, so it was like the writer realized that there was nothing of substance for Reid so the only bone for the Reid fans was that he looked pretty.

 

JJ didn't get on my nerves as much as I expected in this one, although I didn't feel that her hug with Simmons was all that sincere-- something was off to me. And then there was the part at the end where she was shouting at the girl to look at her. There were so many things off with that scene. I know they wanted to capture the confusion with everyone shouting different things, but JJ did not need to be shouting at the girl like that. It was like she was angry at her and it seemed like it would frighten her instead of help. She should have used a softer and more soothing, yet still authoritative tone. She could have said "Just listen to me. Focus on my voice. It's going to be ok. Just focus on me" instead of "LOOK AT ME!" And I don't think the girl would have processed the command to "drop" as quickly as she did.

 

As for the behavior of the family, I like that they tried to escape but it annoyed me that they all just ran off to leave the father. Maybe its just me, but if some psycho was fighting my father, I would have been grabbing a damned chair and trying to bean the guy on the head with it. If I ran out of chairs, I would have just jumped on the guy and started biting the shit out of him.

 

And even though we got to see the unsub terrorizing them, it still wasn't all that clear exactly what he was trying to do. And the family never tried to just talk to the guy? WTF? It just wasn't realistic behavior.

 

Some things I would have changed: Reid should actually have been the one to go to Barbados instead of Morgan, Kate and whoever was with her should have interviewed the parents instead of Monty, there should have been more involvement from the local law enforcement and we should have gotten more about their personalities and culture, Garcia would not have acted like such an inept child, and there would have been far far less unsub. 

 

It would have been nice if they had introduced Kate if the other team didn't know her and maybe had one of them notice she was pregnant and ask how far along she was or ask if it was her first one and then congratulate her. Then they could establish that she wasn't cleared to fly internationally because of her pregnancy (her doctor would say the flight would be too long and it would be bad for circulation or something-- but she would be ok for short flights maybe). If they absolutely had to have Reid stay behind, they should have found a valid explanation for it-- like they needed him to make sure Kate was ok in case she went into early labor or *something*. Ideally, Reid would have made more sense going along on the trip while Morgan stayed with Kate-- then they could have interviewed the parents and Morgan could have told the team what he learned about the family and he could have profiled them from looking at their house. It would at least help them predict how the family members might react toward their captor. Reid could have then made comments about the local culture, population, and statistics and such when they were in Barbados. Maybe he could have been slightly excited because he might not have gone out of the country (other than to Mexico and Canada) before.

 

Anyway, this one was not a terrible episode, but it wasn't great and it wasn't interesting enough for me to watch again, although I didn't hate it enough to immediately change the station.

[Old Dog]

I agree with so much of this zannej except that I didn't take to the new team. Gary Sinise was flat, Anna Gunn had little charisma, the guy with the 4 children was forgettable and Monty for me was a robotic Mary Stu. There was very little to make me want to watch the spin off and it was a typical Messer episode which I seldom find anything to enjoy in. There was so much opportunity to bring something fresh to the table with the international angle but this episode could as easily been set in any US coastal resort. It was all a big Meh for me.

[Oscirus]

Just concentrating mainly on the pilot stuff, I actually thought the pilot did it's job. 

 

Jack's son is probably going to die by the time that the pilot comes around if not the first season.

Hopefully the writers of the new series are smart enough to make Lambert's brother guilty basically turning him into her blind spot.  They established conflict there. I figure if anything she's going to be the star.

Matthew, I didn't really get anything from, I guess we'll have to wait for the series.

Monty actually highlighted quite a few weaknesses, 1. He takes on too many jobs, 2. He overpromises as a liaison which is something that this show established that you should never do. And yea he looks super competent but he's sitting next to Garcia so it's not that hard to do.

 

I'll probably give it a watch. I assume once it goes over to their show that they will be concentrating a bit more on actual international crimes. I can't wait to see how they interact.

 

This episode in general wasn't too bad. But it's been done a lot better before on this show.

 

 

[zannej]

I did think Anna Gunn's line delivery was a bit off in some scenes, and I admit I was a bit jarred at how much he resembled JJ. I'm not going to hold that against her though. I think its normal for there to be some rough edges in a pilot/backdoor pilot. Things may change in the series depending on how people respond to this episode.

 

I agree that it was not good for Monty to make those promises. I didn't really find any of them robotic, but maybe its all a matter of perception. Maybe my fondness of Gary Sinese as Lt Dan is influencing my thoughts on him. Likewise with Simmons. I spent a long time in Southeast Asia and there was something familiar about Simmons that I can't put my finger on. 

 

I totally forgot to mention the ending with the grandparents hugging everyone. I thought that was sweet. I'm not sure, but I think the grandfather may have hugged Reid twice, but I can't remember.

 

I just wish that they had managed to squeeze personality out of everyone that was shown. That doesn't even have to take up more screentime-- it can be done with gestures, facial expressions, and maybe even just short lines. I remember in season 5 how it spoke volumes (to me) about Prentiss being nurturing when she did something simple like set up Reid's crutches for him (to make it easier for him to get up) in the background.

 

My concern is that anyone who watched the show for the first time tonight would not know that Kate and Reid are main characters, would not know that Reid is a genius or that Kate is pregnant. And, I'm shocked to say this, but for once they forgot to mention that JJ is a mother-- at a time when it actually would have been ok/appropriate for her to mention it! All it needed was one line of "I have my hands full with one!" and not even having her say the word "mother".

 

I also forgot to comment on the speculation of Gubler peeing in Messer's Wheaties... LOL. I don't think that she (or any of the cast/crew) have anything against him. I think its more that she can't relate to the beta male genius type character and doesn't know how to write for him. Granted, I think that they all think Gubler is incredibly weird (something of which he's proud) and there may be a problem separating weird silly Gubler from Reid when they write for him. I also suspect that Messer doesn't find Reid all that interesting. I used to think she just absolutely hated or at least disliked Reid and maybe had something against Matthew, but now I think its just lack of ideas and knowledge. She doesn't understand the genius mind and can't write for one. She also seems to lack the sort of planning and thoroughness that Ed seemed to have. Since she can't come up with ideas for Reid and do justice to his dialog, she needs to have someone else (maybe Sharon) help her-- but maybe there's an ego thing and she doesn't want to do that, or maybe she just is so disinterested in Reid that she doesn't want to try. I really don't know. I just know that her episodes don't utilize him well. One of her biggest mistakes is that she seems to equate memorization/fact spouting with intelligence. I've known people who are not all that bright who can memorize whole passages of text verbatim, but if you were to ask them to put it in their own words they couldn't do it because they don't have the comprehension to go along with it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Genius involves the ability to comprehend, evaluate, decipher, and solve. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by zannej

[Danielg342]

Just concentrating mainly on the pilot stuff, I actually thought the pilot did it's job.

Jack's son is probably going to die by the time that the pilot comes around if not the first season.

Hopefully the writers of the new series are smart enough to make Lambert's brother guilty basically turning him into her blind spot. They established conflict there. I figure if anything she's going to be the star.

Matthew, I didn't really get anything from, I guess we'll have to wait for the series.

Monty actually highlighted quite a few weaknesses, 1. He takes on too many jobs, 2. He overpromises as a liaison which is something that this show established that you should never do. And yea he looks super competent but he's sitting next to Garcia so it's not that hard to do.

You have more trust in the writers than I do.

Certainly, I agree- there's room for these characters to grow and the latitude to make changes, and the changes you've suggested would make the characters better. However, I don't trust CM's writers to do those kinds of things, because they've done a horrible job with the characters they already have. Now, likely the spinoff will have new writers who are hopefully better than CM's current staff, but unless I see it in action, I can't know for sure.

Plus I think Erica Messer could have easily written in a few short passages to establish flaws:

For example (and these are just examples):

-Garrett (Sinise's character) could have looked at his phone and seen an angry message from his wife or something wondering why he's out again for the umpteenth time. Or it could be a message from the woman he's cheating on his wife with. Or Rossi could have mentioned that Garrett's son was involved in a “dangerous mission” with something ominous about “hopefully he doesn't repeat your mistakes”

-Lily Lambert's son could have easily been changed so that he's actually in jail because of Lambert's “blind spot”, and Lambert could regret what had happened

-Matt Simmons could also have familial troubles like I listed with Garrett above. Four kids is no picnic, especially for a FBI agent.

-Monty could have told Garcia a story about how he reassured a family that they'd deliver justice for them only for the team not be able to come through for some reason, with Monty getting reprimanded for it. At least then it establishes that Monty is stubborn. Plus, we could have had some stories about other on the job situations (like perhaps people who doubt his abilities as an agent) that establishes that he keeps his sunny disposition as a front for the many insecurities he faces- such as having a limp.

Those are just examples, and, obviously I won't pass judgment until the show airs to give the show the chance to correct its errors. However, I'm firmly in the “wait and see” camp, because this episode had opportunities to write in flaws- and didn't do it.

[Bookish Jen]

I've read all of your comments (so far) and most of you have really summed up my feelings about last night's episode of "Criminal Minds: League of the Mary Sues," so I'll some up my feelings in one simple sentence:

 

"“Spencer, hold my earrings. I’m going all unsub on Erica Messer's ass!”

[Watermelon]

Since it's an entire family, I wonder if they'll base it on the recent missing persons' case that was solved in California, the McStay family.  They were found dead in the desert.  There were rumors for years that they had walked away into Mexico, or that the children had been kidnapped and taken into Mexico.   The father's brother knew all along that his brother would never leave that way, but everyone else kept saying they had left of their own accord. Rumors about drugs and their supposed hippy lifestyle and all that were blamed.  But it was obvious from the way the crime scene was left (interrupted at mealtime with things left out) that the family had been abducted against their will.  It turned out it was the business partner of the father who was responsible for the family's deaths.   

You know, I heard about that story, but never heard the conclusion. It was one of the creepiest 20/20 or Dateline or something I had seen. Thanks for that.

[needschocolate]

You all have pretty much summarized my thoughts on the new team and possible spin-off.  It is like the CSI spin-offs (one with Gary Sinise!) where it is basically the same show set in a different location.  With original recipe CM, they go all over America, so the new ones need to go overseas. Seems like CM is running out of good stories, how are they going to fill another hour every week?

 

As for the plot - what there was of one, given how much time was taken up with the new team's backstories --- How did they know the family was missing in less than eight hours?  Who told the authorities? I doubt the hotel would contact the police because guests didn't show up.  If they keep that close track of the guests, then the shuttle shouldn't have left the airport without them.  Perhaps the grandparents contacted someone.  My mother is an over-worrier, and even she wouldn't have called anyone about us missing that soon (she would have worried, but she wouldn't have called).   It was after 10 pm (last shuttle was at 10) when they got into the van, so the grandparents would have had to contact the authorities by 6 am, Barbados time, which would be hours earlier for the grandparents, depending on where they lived.  

 

Then there was the color of the guy's hats.  He wore a yellow hat for the first two abductions, and now is wearing a blue hat (or the other way around), so they figured that blue and yellow must have something to do with his favorite team or his home country.  Really?  Some guys I know wear caps with the logo or name of their favorite team on them, but I don't know anyone who bases the color of his hat on his favorite team.  Maybe he lost his first hat or got blood on it or something, and someone gave him the second hat, or he stole it from a guy working for a real taxi company.  And did knowing his home country really help them find this family?

 

This isn't necessarily sloppy writing, because this was a family under much stress and it is understandable that they might not be thinking clearly, but their plan to escape was ridiculous (and really was just a plot device to have the rowboat away from the boat so that the little boy could survive being tossed overboard).  The only way the four of them in a little rowboat would have been able to escape the guy in a boat with a motor is if they disabled the motor (no time for that) or they made it so the guy couldn't follow them (knocked him out, killed him, tied him up, etc.).  And if he was unable to follow them, then he would be unable to hurt them if they stayed on the motored boat, and then they could have turned on the motor and headed for the shore.  Instead of running for the rowboat, the mom and kids should have been helping the dad fight - hit the guy with a frying pan or stab him with a knife.  

[Tryangle]

Did anyone else catch the snafu where the text at the bottom of the screen said the U.S. Embassy was in Bridgeport only for, seconds later, we see the facade of the building to reveal the embassy's actual- and correct- location in Bridgetown? I thought they re-shot this to correct mistakes...how did they not catch that?

 

I was ready to write this screed about there's no Bridgeport in Barbados, and that the capital is Bridgetown, but then I realized someone on the production team made a mistake. A huge mistake, in my opinion.

 

I just came by this forum to see if there was going to be any notice of that snafu of "Bridgeport". Because otherwise, they did appear to do their homework with regard to the Barbados flag and the bus stop sign as authentic. The less said about all the extras in floral shirts, the better.

[Chaos Theory]

I am not sure why people are calling the new guys Mary Sues. 2 or 3 already have back stories/personalies which isn't bad for a backdoor pilot. There was Anna Gunn's brother who looks to be in a foreign prison due to mostly American stupidity. The main guy who I know from CSI NY has a well formed family which is unusual for these kinds of shows and a cop son. Then there is the Analayst guy who does JJ/Garcia duty which makes sense because he is usually the only one stateside....he draws. I think there is another team member who used to be in the military. So maybe not extremely well drawn out but not Mary Sue bad either.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[zannej]

Yeah, the family's attempts to get free were kind of lame. I mean, I liked that they actually tried, but it just didn't seem natural. And why the hell didn't they just try to talk to the guy? None of them asked him what he wanted? And he just kept staring at them wide-eyed (which I'm sure the actor was told to do) and it just didn't seem realistic to me. And when the girl was told to run, she didn't run or even act like someone who was scared for her life. She just sort of walked-- and then we had the Scooby Doo chase scene where the girl suddenly runs out the door having somehow gotten past the guy and it was just lame. It also didn't make sense when the guy threw the little boy overboard. There were too many contrived moments in this. They would have been better off just not showing the unsub and the family and leaving it up to the imagination of the teams. Then maybe we could have found out later on what happened-- or something.

[90PercentGravity]

So, this is why Noah had to be violently disemboweled?

 

Didn't they already try a Criminal Minds spin off? Criminal Minds: Too Edgy for this Show or something? With Forrest Whitacker and Jeanine Garafallo and that guy I always mix up with David Cross?

[Chaos Theory]

The problem with Susoect Behavior is that it was THE EXACT SAME SHOW with Forrest Whitaker and less interesting characters. At least this version is trying something new. Foreign countries have weird crazy laws that an American audience might find interesting...and scary as shit.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Old Dog]

The problem with Susoect Behavior is that it was THE EXACT SAME SHOW with Forrest Whitaker and less interesting characters. At least this version is trying something new. Foreign countries have weird crazy laws that an American audience might find interesting...and scary as shit.

It's a real shame they didn't make more of the international aspect with this episode. Apart from a little window dressing, it could have been any Criminal Minds episode in any coastal part of the USA. There was a real chance to show something different and they dropped the ball. Maybe if and when the spin off hits its stride it might be more original and interesting. But even so, it was still a little better than Suspect Behaviour was but its still not tempting me to watch  at all.

[Russet29]

I mostly agree with everything that's already been said. There was far too much squeezed into 1 episode. The simplest solution: cut out the unsub scenes. They yet again added nothing to the story and took away screen time from the BAU and the international team. I think just the opening abduction scene would have sufficed.

 

I feel somewhat meh about the new team, but I certainly see the potential for them to all become full blown Mary Sue/Stu's. I love Gary Sinise and Anna Gunn and their characters were alright. Unlike a previous poster I'm fine with him not having any drama with his wife because we've seen that done to death on this show. I too would love if it turned out Gunn's character's brother is guilty, but I don't see that happening. As Messer might say: "She's an American hero saving other Americans who are not in America. America!!!" Or something like that. The special ops guy is a blank slate but at least the writers didn't fall into the trap of making him a player like Morgan used to be. But 4 kids under 3? Did he knock his wife up the day after she gave birth to the first? As for Monty, I really have nothing else to add. I plan on carving a block of wood into his likeness and worshipping it. He can do no wrong. Though I hate how stupid he made Garcia look and Lord knows I'm not her #1 fan.

 

I'm guessing Reid was largely absent because Gubler was prepping for his episode. He seems like the type of guy who is involved in every detail of his episodes and doesn't want to hand anything off (which makes sense seeing how unique his style is). Kate staying back is fine as she has been fairly prominent the past few episodes and presumably will be front and center in the finale, plus she's pregnant.

 

I'm assuming the reason JJ was yelling in that last scene was because the helicopter was directly overhead. I work in a hospital and every time the medevac lands I can't even hear myself think. The way that climax was directed made me think the daughter was going to get shot. It was almost as if the scene was from her POV. Everyone was yelling different things and she didn't know what to do and ends up getting herself shot and possibly killed. I kind of wish that had happened, these teams can't be heroes every time. It would have been even better if she unknowingly moved into the line of fire and got shot by the special ops guy, at least that would make him more memorable.

[Aethera]

I don't mind a backdoor pilot now and then, though I didn't find this team very compelling.  I thought this was actually better handled that most backdoor pilots are - we didn't get a giant pile of introing in the first 5 minutes.  In fact, I spent the first 15 minutes of the episode trying to figure out if Gary Sinise was still playing Mac Taylor, because his name on this is Jack and it was hard to tell what they were saying. He seems like the same guy if his wife had lived on CSI: NY.  Good family man of course.  

 

And obviously some characters are going to take a back seat to the newcomers for a single episode, so I was fine with that.  I was glad Hotch got some action chasing down that guy.  While I don't generally pile onto the JJ hate, I was annoyed with her yelling at the girl to look at her during the final standoff.

 

Anna Gunn looked pretty 70s-tastic with that hair and outfit.  Otherwise I found her and the rest of the team a bit boring and one-dimensional.  i'll probably give it a few episodes if it airs just the same.  Half-watching CSI crime stuff seems like my job sometimes.

 

I thought the unsub was kind of lame, and that some of his actions, like putting the son overboard, didn't make sense given story.  All in all, eh.  Could take it or leave it.