S02.E10: XVIII

[maraleia]

Flint acquires an unlikely ally. Vane's crew seeks a sea change. Silver makes a sacrifice.

[Neurochick]

If you have Time Warner on demand, you can watch this episode NOW.

[ToastnBacon]

If you have Time Warner on demand, you can watch this episode NOW.

They have it available on Comcast too!

[ToastnBacon]

I'll save my comments until after the scheduled airtime tonight, but it did not disappoint.

I loved the episode.

Edited March 28, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[Neurochick]

They have it available on Comcast too!

 

I wonder if Starz made a mistake.  They took a while putting episode 9 on demand.  I went to on demand for episode 9 and when I saw 10 was there too, I was like, OH YEAH.  I can't wait to hear what everybody's take on the episode is. 

[ganesh]

I'm going to watch tonight with dinner like I usually do.

[Ripley Rules]

Seeing Miranda's corpse being desecrated made me wish Flint would kill Ashe in the most horrible way possible.  So glad Abigail was sent Savannah so she didn't have to witness her father's douchebaggery or get hurt in the assault.

I don't think the gold will stay on New Providence for long...at least not all of it.  It's possible that to keep the treasure secret from other crews and the Royal Navy Jack's crew is going to have to find a place to stash their discovery....thus putting everything up for grabs between Rackham, Vane and Flint.

No Dufresne or Hornigold in this episode.  That's always a good thing. 

And Tom Hopper is fucking hot.  That is all. 

Edited March 28, 2015 by Ripley Rules

[Garnett7]

DirecTV has it OnDemand, too. But they seem to have it up early every week. I've watched the last several episodes on a Saturday morning instead of having to wait until that night. :)

[fellini]

I can't believe Silver told Flint about the double cross. I don't understand why he told him. He would of gotten a bigger share with the other two guys already dead. I wonder what next season is gonna be about. Max is really smart.

[Garnett7]

I enjoyed this episode but I kinda think last week would've been a better season finale cliffhanger. I'm not complaining, though. I loved seeing TeamFlane aiding each other in destroying Charles Town. I don't know if we're done with Ashe, though. He was still breathing at the end. I fear Abigail might find him and get him help.

 

I'm surprised that Silver told the truth about the double cross. Not sure what his angle is. I think he'd come out better taking his share with Max/Anne/Jack's crew and heading off into the sunset with it.

[TobinAlbers]

The look on Flint's face when Silver told him about the gold was some amazing work by Toby. Twitching barely restrained rage.

And Silver squirming under his gaze all but pleading with his eyes for Flint not to kill him right then and there was perfect.

I was beaming with pride at Jack and Anne pulling off the heist. And they had to fight off a small Spanish army to get it! Hope we get flashbacks to that next season.

While watching Vane and Flint lay waste to Charles Town was cathartic (and man did they not hold back on showing the slaughter- we saw canon balls blow apart women and men into pieces) but it was also IMO a bit petty. Miranda and Flint were pissed about being betrayed by Ashe, fine, but to slaughter innocent men, women, and children as vengeance? And there were innocents there not party to the public execution spectacle. Not cool. Of course a gives no damns Flint is amazing to watch but boy is this stand gonna come back to bite him. I'm convinced now more than ever that now that James has fully committed to Flint, Thomas is gonna show up alive and not pleased with what his lover has become.

Billy Bones was magnificent. From giving Vane the diary to standing up to John to striking down Vane's men (while being wonderfully backlit by the sun as he came through the window) Billy was aces all around.

[Neurochick]

I get why Silver told Flint.  Everybody's world has been rocked.  The pirates really get that they are a hunted species.  Silver was selfish, he was all "ME ME ME."  But Vane's crewman mutilated him and in the end, the rest of the crew fought to save his life and they voted him quartermaster.  

 

Ashe died as Charles Town was dying.  I watched the episode twice and at first, I didn't get why Flint didn't kill him.  But when I watched again, I realized what happened.  Flint stabbed Ashe in the stomach (quite painful I believe) and said something like, "this will be the last thing you see."  Ashe was so badly wounded that all he could do was sit helplessly and watch as Charles Town was destroyed around him and when the place had been gutted, you see Ashe's head drop, so I took it to mean that he was dead.  

 

While watching Vane and Flint lay waste to Charles Town was cathartic (and man did they not hold back on showing the slaughter- we saw canon balls blow apart women and men into pieces) but it was also IMO a bit petty. Miranda and Flint were pissed about being betrayed by Ashe, fine, but to slaughter innocent men, women, and children as vengeance?

 

 

I was thinking about that too as I watched.  At the end, Flint told Silver that when they stopped on another island, he heard about what happened to Eleanor.  I wonder if the news of the attack on Charles Town has reached Nassau.  They'll probably need most of that gold to arm Nassau.  I think the British might be a little pissed that pirates destroyed Charles Town.

 

Last season I didn't think too much of Ann and Jack, but this season I really started to dig their relationship.  Ann's a ride of die woman and Jack really respects and loves her.  It more like a 21st century type relationship than an eighteenth century one; Ann and Jack are partners, equals and I think both of them get that.  

Edited March 29, 2015 by Neurochick

[WatchrTina]

 

I'm surprised that Silver told the truth about the double cross. Not sure what his angle is. I think he'd come out better taking his share with Max/Anne/Jack's crew and heading off into the sunset with it.

I think the issue is that John is now:

a) disabled and 

b) the quartermaster of the crew.

He's tied to Flint's ship and crew now.  They've made promises to look after him.  If he were to try to leave the ship, which is what he'd have to do to claim his share of the gold , it would quickly become obvious to Flint and the crew that he was in on the lie.  And then he'd quickly become dead.

 

Plus, did you hear the line he said on the table? "What you should be asking yourselves is: where are his keys?  And has he seen them since he took me away from my men?"    MY men.  I do think that selfish, hard-hearted John may actually have been genuinely moved by Billy and the crew trying to protect him.  If so, telling Flint about the gold was a good way to get out from under the lie.

 

Best lines of the episode:

Vane: "What do you suggest?"

Flint: "That we remind them that they were right to be afraid."

Edited March 29, 2015 by WatchrTina

[ToastnBacon]

I don't really want to wait until 2016 to pick up this story again, but as a consolation we get Blackbeard next season.

This season was even better than the first and I'm happy how it ended.

The real Blackbeard was known for operating several ships simultaneously and successfully engaging warships on occasion.

i wonder what role in Nassau he'll play? Could he be the force that attacks the Scarborough and leads to Eleanor's return?

I wasn't expecting Silver to lose his leg just yet, but I'm betting he starts using Randal's wooden leg.

Not really sure if the feud is over between Vane and Flint, but it looks that way.

Max is the new trade boss? Why am I not surprised.

Great season finale.

Edited March 29, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[luckyroll3]

I'm surprised that Silver told the truth about the double cross. Not sure what his angle is. I think he'd come out better taking his share with Max/Anne/Jack's crew and heading off into the sunset with it.

Well, he wasn't completely honest; he conveniently left out that it was all his idea!  But I give him props for at least having one moment of selflessness, although it cost him a leg.  I agree with the previous posts that he is now tied to this crew and the best thing for his survival is to now be loyal to them

 

"We need to remind them....they were right to be afraid."  Sent chills down my spine.  I don't think I've ever been so happy to see an entire town destroyed.  Note to self, don't piss off pirates.

 

This whole episode was a win for me.

[raven]

Was there a reason I'm forgetting that Abigail didn't take her diary with her when she left?  That distracted me a bit.

 

Silver is conflicted now.   He is partly hedging his bets - Max is still around after all - and partly is also feeling some loyalty to the men who saved him & voted him quartermaster. Even before that, lying on the table he calls them "MY men" to Vane's guy.   The story about the gold's going to come out, might as well blame the dead guy and try to figure out a different angle.  Flint is coming back to Nassau, possibly partnered with Vane, strong as ever and totally committed to being a pirate captain.  John Silver was NOT expecting to lose a body part though.  I wasn't expecting it either, ha.   Luke Arnold was very good when he was begging them not to take his leg.  Silver was probably picturing Randall, especially when one of the crew said they would take care of him - nice sentiment and all, but John Silver doesn't want to be taken care of.  He's always depended on himself.  He still has that tricky brain though.

 

Loved that Anne & Jack are partners again.  The two actors work well together and Jack has really proved himself by fighting for and getting the gold AND bringing back the Walrus; probably could not have done it without her.  Great episode too for Max who has really put herself in a powerful position. 

 

Flint & Vane working together was everything I hoped for.  I can't help but root for them, even after we see at Flint's trial how many people he's killed, even seeing non-combatants blown up, even after Flint orders the warship to fire on the town.  Vane was sure digging that, nice work by Zach McGowan there, just the slightest smirk of satisfaction. 

 

 

The look on Flint's face when Silver told him about the gold was some amazing work by Toby. Twitching barely restrained rage.

Totally agree.  I knew he wasn't going to kill Silver but I wasn't sure, if that makes any sense!  I thought he was excellent all around - when he sees Miranda's coffin and realizes what's going to happen and "Everyone's a monster to some one".  McGraw is gone for good now. 

 

 

"We need to remind them....they were right to be afraid."  Sent chills down my spine.

 

Thanks - I knew there was another good line there.

 

Didn't miss Eleanor. 

 

Silver still gets the line of the night to Billy "That was dark".  LOL!

 

I liked too that they ended with the Rackham crew's success and Max's happy face.  Great setup for next season. 

Edited March 29, 2015 by raven

[WatchrTina]

Not really sure if the feud is over between Vane and Flint, but it looks that way.

I'm having fun envisioning the Man 'O War returning to Nassau harbor and Flint and his crew learning that the Urca gold (which they think of as THEIR gold) has been installed in the fort (which Vane and his crew think of as THEIR fort.) Jack & Anne have the gold and they used to work for Vane. That's gonna piss on off Vane as well. Especially since the two of them spent HIS pearls trying to buy the page that would have led HIM to the gold. And oh yeah, that transaction failed because Max double-crossed Vane and now she's got the gold.

Yeah, there's gonna be some blood shed over that gold and Vane & Flint may just team up again to shed it.

A few more random thoughts on the show.

The special effects for the bombardment of Charles Town were great. I kept jumping as things kept blowing up. They certainly didn't skimp on the gore. There was a fair amount of "pink mist" (to use a phrase I learned from the episode of Grey's Anatomy with the bomb.) Ick. But Toby and Zach fighting their way through the bombardement was masterful. For me, they graduated from actors who can swashbuckle to full-fledged action heroes.

So that asshole who shot Miranda died in the bombardment. Good. I said last week that I hoped he'd die screaming. Blown apart by a hot cannonball works too.

I enjoyed the scene between Anne & Jack. That was some nice, subtle, affecting acting by Toby.

Edited March 29, 2015 by WatchrTina

[ganesh]

Ann's a ride of die woman and Jack really respects and loves her.  It more like a 21st century type relationship than an eighteenth century one; Ann and Jack are partners, equals and I think both of them get that.

 

What I got was out of it was,

Ann: I can't love you the way you love me. Jack: Ok, np. That's been my relationship right now with my female platonic friend, and has been for over 6 years. And I told her last week, she needs to buy a hat!

 

Vane: Hey, Flint, we have a plan to fuck shit up.

Flint: Well, how about we really fuck shit up?

Vane: Ok. *stands up* *cannon fire*

 

I like how Vane and Flint fought their way out. It wasn't elegant at all. It was gruesome and awesome. Flint is *all in* on piracy now.

 

One thing I liked was that Flint said early on that having a warship was going to make them invincible. Well, the ship shelled Charleston, and it looked like it sank the other two ships in the harbor too, so that came around. 

 

I just started reading Treasure Island, so I'm psyched to learn about what happens to everyone. 

[dohe]

While that was a heavy bombardment, I did not see Miranda's killer die.  Ashe was dying - a guy wound like that back then, he is a goner for sure.  However by them not showing Miranda's killer dying, I would not be surprised if he fits into next season.  Same as Abigail.  The tension between her and Billy won't be wasted. 

 

Vane was not as unwatchable tonight.  More action, less talking for that character helps.  That said, he still has to rank among the worst written and acted characters on tv. 

 

Silver was going to lose that leg sooner or later.  I like that they went with sooner so we weren't wondering when it is going to happen anymore.  While Silver and Flint continue to be fun characters, Billy has also become quite watchable.  He provides a smoldering toughness that the Fabio like Vane just can't.  More Billy please.

 

Jack and Anne showed a great deal of maturity.  Anne recognized she owes Jack a great deal.  However, as I felt all along, it was evident that she was only having sex with Jack out of obligation.  There are ways to payback someone and then there are ways one shouldn't.  Making love fits firmly in the second category and I am glad Anne recognized that and that Jack understood it.  While it no doubt hurts Jack to know that Anne does not see making love to Max as an obligation but something that is actually desired, he showed how much he loves Anne by respecting Anne's feelings.  That they recognized they can be still be partners and best friends was cool to see.   Max's look at the end was quite something.  It will be interesting to see Max and Eleanor's reactions to each other if Eleanor is saved.  

Edited March 29, 2015 by dohe

[henripootel]

Ashe was so badly wounded that all he could do was sit helplessly and watch as Charles Town was destroyed around him

 

Correct.  If he's gut-stabbed, he's gonna die, period.  Flint just did it carefully enough that he wouldn't bleed out right away.  Horrifically cruel but you know what - fuck you Ashe.

 

The whole attack on Charlestown was kinda awesome.  And it looks like we have some beginnings of a 'pirate's code' of sorts.  This show is really hitting its stride.

Edited March 29, 2015 by henripootel

[ToastnBacon]

Flint cuts down two men on the way over to Ashe. The second one was wearing a pale green coat, and I think that was the guy who shot Miranda.

However, I'm not sure. I might have to watch it again.

[luckyroll3]

Forgot to mention that Abigail's reading of her father was great. She was spot on with everything she said and questioned him about. And of course, he had no response for any of it. He was such a chicken shit. Even at the end, he couldn't admit he was wrong, yet had the nerve to beg for his life. Yeah, fuck you Ashe.

I do hope we see Abigail next season. Billy Bones needs some loving.

[attica]

"So, now that everyone's eyes are on us, what happens next?"  And I literally squealed at my screen: "Pirates! Pirates happen next!" And over the wall they came.

 

Is Silver's amputation above or below the knee? I couldn't tell. Also, lots of clever blocking so the CGI peeps didn't have to do all that much leg erasure.

 

"Would you like to see something shiny?" Well, yes. Yes I do.

 

Very happy with this season. And to think I was ambivalent about rejoining it after my 'meh' reaction to season 1. Glad I did. 

[dohe]

Flint cuts down two men on the way over to Ashe. The second one was wearing a pale green coat, and I think that was the guy who shot Miranda.

However, I'm not sure. I might have to watch it again.

Wasn't the guy who shot Miranda on the dock delegating the shots at Flint and Vane as they were rowing the boat?

[WatchrTina]

 

 

Wasn't the guy who shot Miranda on the dock delegating the shots at Flint and Vane as they were rowing the boat?

Yes that was him.  He was just about to light the cannon when he heard a boatswain's whistle, which clued him in that a ship was masked behind all that smoke.  And then the Man O' War opened up and blew their position apart.  I think it's safe to assume he was cut in half by a hot cannonball. 

 

 

Is Silver's amputation above or below the knee?

 

They couldn't see the damage until his boot was removed so that tells me that destruction was to his shin and the amputation was below the knee.  Even if that's not consistent with Treasure Island I feel certain the creative team would make the decision to go with a below-the-knee amputation -- otherwise the Luke Arnold would really have to struggle to play the role next year and the CGI and visual trickery required to sustain the illusion would be that much more complicated.

 

I really hated the guy -- Vane's quartermaster -- who did that to John. I never liked or trusted him so I was delighted to see Billy cut him in half.  And quite frankly it was a stupid scene.  He wanted the smartest guy in the crew to give him meaningful advice about which of Flint's men were the weakest and thus the least likely to revolt against a new captain.  Is torture really an effective way to obtain that kind of thoughtful analysis?  Again, I blame plot necessity.  I think the show-runners needed a reason to cement John's relationship to the Flint crew and having him lose his leg while refusing to sell out the crew is a nifty little way to accomplish that goal.

 

Back in the last episode Co-conspirator #2 asked John if the reason he was going to cut that line and prevent Vane from leaving was to save himself or to save the crew.  John never answered.  I actually love it that we still don't REALLY know why John did any of the things he did.  Was he simply continuing to act in his own self-interest?  Is he so smart that he knew that if he gave Vane's quartermaster what he wanted his usefulness would immediately end and he would either die with the rest of Flint's crew or, at best, be left alive to be reviled by the new crew for his actions and never be trusted again by anyone.  We just don't know and I don't think we ever will.

Edited March 29, 2015 by WatchrTina

[ToastnBacon]

Yes that was him.  He was just about to light the cannon when he heard a boatswain's whistle, which clued him in that a ship was masked behind all that smoke.  And then the Man O' War opened up blew their position apart.  I think it's safe to assume he was cut in half by a hot cannonball.

Yes, you are right! They even showed his face change expression for a good two seconds before the ship opened fire.

Thanks!

[Ankai]

That was some Spartacus levels of carnage.

 

I had made a long post about why I thought Flint unleashed the cannons on Charlestown, but a simply bad keystroke took me a page back and erased the entire thing. So, short version.

 

1) He had to be unambiguously sure that no troops could follow him.

2) Trying to be the good guy did not work and Britain did not deserve his attempts. Might as well be worse.

3) Britain is now officially the enemy to Flint. And it is a vast and powerful enemy. As such, he cannot simply rely on a fair fight or just cause. He has to exploit a weak point as much as he can.

4) The narrative of a brutal pirate getting captured and making a violent escape still has the narrative of a pirate running away. The narrative of a pirate getting captured, escaping, and DESTROYING AN ENTIRE TOWN shifts the focus and strikes fear into the enemy.

 

This last bit might make future raids easier, but it might simply mean that that group of ships near Nassau will soon get reinforcements. And it seems quite likely that the arrival of that Spanish gold will bring problems even before a wrathful Flint returns. Can Nassau survive a British attack?

 

Additionally, what happened to the group of Vane's men who took over the fort in Charlestown? Did they return to the ship? Did the Colonial troops overrun them?

[WatchrTina]

 

 

The narrative of a pirate getting captured, escaping, and DESTROYING AN ENTIRE TOWN shifts the focus and strikes fear into the enemy. This last bit might make future raids easier, but it might simply mean that that group of ships near Nassau will soon get reinforcements.

I totally agree.  The story of the Charlestown massacre will enhance the reputations of Captains Flint & Vane to the point that most merchant ships will just surrender their cargo rather than fight either of those (now legendary) pirates.

 

But that same reputation and the fact that Vane and Flint now appear to be working together will no doubt further motivate Great Britain to send reinforcements to defeat the new power that they see rising in the area.  Individual pirates robbing merchant vessels is one thing.  Pirates working together and taking out an entire settlement is a whole other level of threat.

 

I'm trying to imagine the scene where Eleanor tries to tell the Brits how she and Flint were working on a reconciliation with mother England and they inform her that Flint and Vane, working together, just blew Lord Ashe and his whole town into little bitty pieces.  I do hope that happens on camera.

 

 

what happened to the group of Vane's men who took over the fort in Charlestown? Did they return to the ship? Did the Colonial troops overrun them?

We saw them scamper back down the lines attached to the grappling hooks they had used to climb up into the town's defenses.  I presume the long boats they arrived on were below in the water.  I'm sure they took and returned fire with the men on the walls but then Vane & Flint arrived, which distracted the men on the walls.  So I think it's safe to say that most of Vane's crew made it back to the ship (where Billy, no doubt, stuck a gun in their faces and made them join the rest of the prisoner pirates).  The guys on the wall didn't get the cannons turned back around to face the water until Flint & Vane were in their longboat.

Edited March 29, 2015 by WatchrTina

[ganesh]

Given how critical the war ship was to the raid and escape, is Vane going to relinquish the ship to Flint? They'll have to get another one. 

[Ankai]

We saw them scamper back down the lines attached to the grappling hooks they had used to climb up into the town's defenses.  I presume the long boats they arrived on were below in the water.  I'm sure they took and returned fire with the men on the walls but then Vane & Flint arrived, which distracted the men on the walls.  So I think it's safe to say that most of Vane's crew made it back to the ship (where Billy, no doubt, stuck a gun in their faces and made them join the rest of the prisoner pirates).  The guys on the wall didn't get the cannons turned back around to face the water until Flint & Vane were in their longboat.

Right. I had forgotten about that for some reason, but now I remember.

[WatchrTina]

 

Given how critical the war ship was to the raid and escape, is Vane going to relinquish the ship to Flint? They'll have to get another one.

 

Vane and his men captured the Man 'O War, and then they lost it.  He may still want the ship and he may still think he's entitled to the ship as payment for Abigail but that and a peso will buy him a cup of coffee, nothing more.  He's doesn't have enough men to sail the ship so he can't take it over from Flint's crew.  Thankfully, he already has another ship.  When Jack was trying to break into the fort a couple of episodes ago it was noted that Vane's ship (the one he took from Ned Low) was still in the harbor.  Vane is still considered a BAMF by the pirates of Nassau and I assume he left some men on board to guard that ship so it's probably still sitting there, waiting for his return.

 

So here's some speculation.  Wouldn't it be interesting if, when Vane & his men leave to go back to the Ned Low ship, Billy went with them?  Billy hates Flint -- he said so last episode.  And Vane has wanted Billy to be a part of his crew for a long time -- he said so last episode.  Vane needs a new quartermaster.  Billy has experience in that role.  And Flint's crew just elected John quartermaster so the position's not available on the Man 'O War.  Billy and Vane teaming up -- now wouldn't THAT be an interesting development?

 

Of course, quartermasters are elected by the crew and Vane's crew probably has a wee axe to grind with Billy right now. But on the other hand, pirates respect success above all else and Billy and his crew re-taking the Man 'O War was pretty damn successful.

 

The "Man 'O War" needs a name.  I'm tired of typing out those words.  I wonder if Flint will re-christen it the "Miranda".

Edited March 29, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Ankai]

The issue with Vane's crew will be one of many issues that will have to be addressed in the third season. The men who went with him probably had not anticipated that Flint's men would take back the ship, but maybe their agreement that "rescuing" Flint was for the bigger picture might keep them from turning against Vane. Maybe not. Again, the gold has arrived at Nassau, the prospect of a British attack is higher than ever, and Flint is still on a warpath that could threaten to kill absolutely everyone. Vane keeping a ship might have to take a backseat.

[ToastnBacon]

 

I'm trying to imagine the scene where Eleanor tries to tell the Brits how she and Flint were working on a reconciliation with mother England and they inform her that Flint and Vane, working together, just blew Lord Ashe and his whole town into little bitty pieces.  I do hope that happens on camera.

 .

That would make for a damn good scene.

I'm wondering if Spain ever finds out what happened to their ships and gold. You have to assume they do because the Urca crashed on a Florida beach within several days walk of St. Augustine.

Even if Rackham's crew didn't leave survivors, the Spanish survivors from Flint's encounter with them would have got word to St. Augustine about the captured warship, I'm sure they can figure out what happened.

Especially when Nassau becomes flush with gold. That will be two very strong empires pissed off at the pirates.

Historically we know it doesn't end well for the pirates, but how closely will the producers of the show track with actual history?

Has anyone seen a good article from Starz that talks about just how far they intend to stray from history? They have already taken significant liberties with the deeds of some of these characters, and I think it makes for a much better story, but I'd like to know where the writer's heads are.

Rackham and Max are clever enough to negotiate their way out of Vane and Flint's wrath, but I'm wondering if Silver will be able to keep his role in this silent.

[WatchrTina]

 

That will be two very strong empires pissed off at the pirates.

When Vane decided to rescue Flint there were a lot of comments on the boards about the use of that old trope, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."  Look at all the destruction that was wrought by two old enemies, Vane & Flint, teaming up.  Now imagine what could be wrought if England and Spain unite in shared pissedoffitude at the Pirates of Nassau.  That could make for one terrifying "big bad" in season 3.

 

BTW, I'm not a student of history but I'm reading a historic novel set in roughly the same time frame and it seems like this era is marked by England being continually at war with either the Dutch or the French but not so much with the Spanish.  Is it inconceivable that English and Spanish war-ships in the area would joint forces against the pirates?

Edited March 29, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Ankai]

When Vane decided to rescue Flint there were a lot of comments on the boards about the use of that old trope, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."  Look at all the destruction that was wrought by two old enemies, Vane & Flint, teaming up.  Now imagine what could be wrought if England and Spain unite in shared pissedoffitude at the Pirates of Nassau.  That could make for one terrifying "big bad" in season 3.

 

BTW, I'm not a student of history but I'm reading a historic novel set in roughly the same time frame and it seems like this era is marked by England being continually at war with either the Dutch or the French but not so much with the Spanish.  Is it inconceivable that English and Spanish war-ships in the area would joint forces against the pirates?

Maaaybe they could join forces. Another possibility is that they step on each other's toes and the pirates exploit this as much as possible.

[WatchrTina]

 

Another possibility is that they step on each other's toes and the pirates exploit this as much as possible.

Oooh I like that idea.  Imagine John (who looks Spanish and speaks Spanish) in a bar, planting the false idea in the minds of some Spanish crewmen that the reason the Brits are going after the pirates is because they (the Brits) are trying to capture the Urca de Lima gold.  That could make for some intrigue.  

 

According to the historical novel I'm reading right now, this era was marked by economic upheavals caused in part by the English not having enough precious metal to mint the reliable currency needed to facilitate trade.  The Spanish, with their new world gold and silver mines, were in a much better position.  This could work.  Somebody tell the writers.

[cali1981]

Just a great season finale but it was painful to see Miranda's corpse being desecrated by the local yokels.  If Flint had an ounce of feeling for "innocent civilians" I suspect that it went out the window as he witnessed that and his rage increased.  The shelling of Charles Town was epic and the Dolby 5.1 audio track was as well.  My surround speakers were just singing with each volley of canon fire.

[ToastnBacon]

When Vane decided to rescue Flint there were a lot of comments on the boards about the use of that old trope, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."  Look at all the destruction that was wrought by two old enemies, Vane & Flint, teaming up.  Now imagine what could be wrought if England and Spain unite in shared pissedoffitude at the Pirates of Nassau.  That could make for one terrifying "big bad" in season 3.

 

BTW, I'm not a student of history but I'm reading a historic novel set in roughly the same time frame and it seems like this era is marked by England being continually at war with either the Dutch or the French but not so much with the Spanish.  Is it inconceivable that English and Spanish war-ships in the area would joint forces against the pirates?

In an earlier episode we had Flint's assessment that one of the consequences of bringing the Urca gold to Nassau would be that Spanish diplomats in London would pressure parliament to clean out Nassau once and for all, or risk a return to hostilities between the two nations.

Whatever the case, Flint and Vane need to repair Nassau's fort and install longer range cannons very quickly.

[WatchrTina]

 

it was painful to see Miranda's corpse being desecrated by the local yokels.  If Flint had an ounce of feeling for "innocent civilians" I suspect that it went out the window as he witnessed that

To quote Lord Ashe, 'This is the civilization you want to return to."  

[JenMD]

Was there a reason I'm forgetting that Abigail didn't take her diary with her when she left?  That distracted me a bit.

 

From what I can remember from the ep where she wrote it, she mentioned in the voiceover that she had no expectation of taking it with her.  She assumed it would be destroyed when she left, but she appreciated being allowed to occupy her time by writing in it..

[ulkis]

Silver was going to lose that leg sooner or later.  I like that they went with sooner so we weren't wondering when it is going to happen anymore.

 

I actually only remembered this once I saw the cable guide info that said "Silver makes a sacrifice"; I figured it would be some kind of body part since he didn't really have anything else to sacrifice, and then I dimly, dimly recalled from the "classic novels I haven't read but everyone knows about in some capacity" part of my brain that Long John Silver is missing a leg. 

 

I really hated the guy -- Vane's quartermaster -- who did that to John. I never liked or trusted him so I was delighted to see Billy cut him in half.  And quite frankly it was a stupid scene.  He wanted the smartest guy in the crew to give him meaningful advice about which of Flint's men were the weakest and thus the least likely to revolt against a new captain.  Is torture really an effective way to obtain that kind of thoughtful analysis?

 

Yeah, but that guy didn't seem like the brightest bulb in the box to begin with, so I wasn't surprised at him doing something stupid and rash. He was panicked and scared and wanted to get out of there. Plus, Silver did previously cave at the threat of torture (in this season's premiere - unless he was faking it at the time just so he could just hit the Spanish sailor on the head - ), so it wasn't actually a bad tactic to take with him, even if the quartermaster didn't know that.

 

Silver was probably picturing Randall, especially when one of the crew said they would take care of him - nice sentiment and all, but John Silver doesn't want to be taken care of.  He's always depended on himself.  He still has that tricky brain though.

 

Yeah, nice sentiments from that guy but I laughed at how he said, "we're not going anywhere!" Yes, people always want as many witnesses as possible when they might just be about to lose their bowels! He gets a gold star for trying to be nice, though.

 

Didn't miss Eleanor.

 

I like her, but neither did I.

 

Silver still gets the line of the night to Billy "That was dark".  LOL!

 

That made me laugh too.

 

I can't believe Silver told Flint about the double cross. I don't understand why he told him. He would of gotten a bigger share with the other two guys already dead.

 

I get why Silver told Flint.  Everybody's world has been rocked.  The pirates really get that they are a hunted species.  Silver was selfish, he was all "ME ME ME."  But Vane's crewman mutilated him and in the end, the rest of the crew fought to save his life and they voted him quartermaster.

 

The look on Flint's face when Silver told him about the gold was some amazing work by Toby. Twitching barely restrained rage.

 

Yeah, all this. Toby Stephens was great when he filled with rage but he was also great in that last scene in general (so was Luke Arnold). His whole demeanor towards Silver changed - the way he said they stopped at Tortuga for news, "and there's been plenty of it" was him trying partly to get Silver's mind off what had happened, I think. It's interesting now that I think about it - Silver used gossip to distract/entertain the crew and in that moment Flint was doing the same thing with Silver. And when he said (paraphrasing), "the men need something to hold on to when their world has been changed so greatly", and then his eyes flickered over to Silver, he was (imo) saying in his hard empty shell pirate hardened way, "I will be that something solid you can hang onto, dude". So I get why he told Flint. Plus what luckyroll3 said:

 

Well, he wasn't completely honest; he conveniently left out that it was all his idea!  But I give him props for at least having one moment of selflessness, although it cost him a leg.  I agree with the previous posts that he is now tied to this crew and the best thing for his survival is to now be loyal to them

 

Although I do think he has had two more moments of selflessness that I can recall off the top of my head - in the first season when Randall was trapped under the ship and Silver rushed up to throw them the ax he had, and last week - and I don't pay the strictest attention to the show so I could have misinterpreted this moment - I'm pretty sure he was going to try to flee the ship until he saw Randall's body and decided to cut the . . . rope thingy instead. (I suck at nautical terms - I've read a lot of historical fiction that takes place on ships and I never retain any of those damn words.)

 

Although a lot of Silver's nicer moments may just have been born of wimpiness as opposed to any sort of genuine selflessness.

 

Back in the last episode Co-conspirator #2 asked John if the reason he was going to cut that line and prevent Vane from leaving was to save himself or to save the crew.  John never answered.  I actually love it that we still don't REALLY know why John did any of the things he did.  Was he simply continuing to act in his own self-interest?

 

That reminds me, was another thing I liked regarding Silver telling the truth/the end scene - when he said, "forgive me, I'm having a hard time right now" - it was the truth, but it was also a way of trying to get Flint's wrath to deflate just weeee bit.

 

I didn't have a problem with Miranda being killed off but propping her body in a coffin/square box reminded me uncomfortably of the "fridging the woman" trope (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge), which it pretty much was. I suppose at least they resisted having her breasts exposed or some other body part, which this being a Starz/cable show, I would not have been surprised if that happened.

 

And agree with everyone who said this, Max's smile at the end was great. Nice to see such a genuine smile of delight on this show. I hope to see her next season in a gorgeous array of gowns that she bought with the gold, heh. 

 

And for anyone who has made it to the end of this post, have some young Toby Stephens playing with puppies!:

 

https://youtu.be/dtDSWiEs1sE?list=PL1734C0D349F1710F&t=148

 

It's amusing to think of Flint frolicking with puppies.

Edited March 29, 2015 by ulkis

[raven]

 

And for anyone who has made it to the end of this post, have some young Toby Stephens playing with puppies!:

Thank you for that!

 

Lots of interesting possibilities for next season, not just with the pirates.  I am wondering about Eleanor.  I don't dislike her either; the unfortunate thing is that she's been mostly reactionary this season.  Will she make it back to Nassau?  If so, what then?  What does she really care about?  We have a sense of what everyone's about now but not her - she seemed to care for Max, she used Vane, she wants to be independent, was on board with Flint's plan, daddy issues - I wonder what she sees as a future for herself. 

 

 

If Flint had an ounce of feeling for "innocent civilians" I suspect that it went out the window as he witnessed that and his rage increased.

He did at least release the slaves, though that may have been to cause more chaos rather than through compassion.

 

I did some research and thought it interesting that real life pirates like Vane, Rackham and others were "active" for about three years before disappearing or being captured and hung, with 1716-1719 being the active period.   I am terrible with history, does anyone know what the year the show is taking place in?  We may be in for the beginning of what's been called the golden age of piracy. 

[ulkis]

Thank you for that!

 

you're welcome! :) I'm gonna reply a little bit about the movie that the scene is from in the "small talk" thread.

 

I did some research and thought it interesting that real life pirates like Vane, Rackham and others were "active" for about three years before disappearing or being captured and hung, with 1716-1719 being the active period.   I am terrible with history, does anyone know what the year the show is taking place in?  We may be in for the beginning of what's been called the golden age of piracy.

 

Well I guess it might be a year later now, or months, or what have you, but the first episode said it was 1715.

[TidalCreek]

Wasn't the guy who shot Miranda on the dock delegating the shots at Flint and Vane as they were rowing the boat?

 

 

Yes that was him.  He was just about to light the cannon when he heard a boatswain's whistle, which clued him in that a ship was masked behind all that smoke.  And then the Man O' War opened up and blew their position apart.  I think it's safe to assume he was cut in half by a hot cannonball.

 

 

 

 

His name was William Rhett -- and IRL he hunted Vane later, which is how he stumbled across Stede Bonnet (known, especially in Charleston, as "the gentleman pirate") and his crew and brought them back to Charleston. For this reason (and because I harbor hopes that Bonnet will make an appearance after Blackbeard does) I think he might have survived the cannon blast.

 

As a resident of Charleston, I found it difficult to watch my hometown being blown to bits. :)  Although I really did feel for Flint and understood why he did it.

Edited March 29, 2015 by TidalCreek

[WatchrTina]

 

I think he might have survived the cannon blast.

Argh!  You may be right.  As we learned from Billy -- if he doesn't die on camera, he's not dead in TV-land.  The same goes for  Lord Ashe.  A blade to the guts should be fatal but he was still breathing when the credits rolled so you never know.

[ulkis]

Oooh I like that idea.  Imagine John (who looks Spanish and speaks Spanish) in a bar

 

Does he actually speak Spanish? I thought he was just parroting what Flint was feeding him in the episode where they were luring the war ship over. I do remember thinking his accent was horrible, heh, and gave him away as an obvious foreigner/English speaker, but I am not a native speaker of Spanish, so I can't say that with absolute surety.

[nodorothyparker]

"Everyone is a monster to someone.  Since you are so convinced that I am yours ... I will be it."  And with that, James McGraw is done with any second guessing or hesitation about who he is and embraces being James Flint.

 

Phenomenal season ender.

[dohe]

Argh!  You may be right.  As we learned from Billy -- if he doesn't die on camera, he's not dead in TV-land.  The same goes for  Lord Ashe.  A blade to the guts should be fatal but he was still breathing when the credits rolled so you never know.

The difference between Ashe and the other guy is the other guy was never shown actually being wounded.  Ashe suffered a sword through the gut.  People did not surive that back then. 

[henripootel]

Ashe suffered a sword through the gut.  People did not surive that back then.

Shelby Foote from The Civil War (more or less): 'You often see pictures of the dead with their clothes in disarray, like somebody's been rifling through the bodies. But this was the men themselves, checking to see where they were their wound was, cuz they knew if they were gut-shot they were gonna die'.  A gruesome truth still, 150 years later.

If Flint had an ounce of feeling for "innocent civilians" I suspect that it went out the window as he witnessed that and his rage increased.

Yeah, as soon as they desecrated Miranda's body and Flint narrowed his eyes a bit, I knew there was gonna be a reckoning.  Not to be too blood-thursty but it was well enough done that I was all 'Fuck you, good people of Charleston' as Flint and Vane cut their way to the wall.  Heck, this episode made me like Charles Vane, which I didn't think was possible. 

[WatchrTina]

 

Does he actually speak Spanish? I thought he was just parroting what Flint was feeding him in the episode where they were luring the war ship over.

My interpretation of that scene was that John Silver speaks Spanish and does it well enough to masquerade as a crew man on a Spanish merchant vessel.  Flint was telling him what to say (because Flint understands Spanish and could hear the questions) but John was doing the talking because with his looks he could pass for Spanish (which Flint decidedly could NOT do.)  I have no idea whether the actor, Luke Arnold, can speak Spanish and since I don't speak it I would not recognize if he has a terrible accent, but I think we're meant to believe that John's accent is good enough for him to pass for Spanish.