Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

[kitticup]

I don't think Hook was present or helped with the massacre.  In the sparkly dirt scene, it seems to me that Cora has called Hook from place where he was preparing the Jolly Roger for travel.  IIRC, Cora tells him she has something important to show him.

 

There was nothing Hook could do to stop Cora, and taking her to a land without magic was  a good move.  Without magic, like Rumple, Cora would be vulnerable to anyone and was effectively neutralized.  Unfortunately for Hook, Rumple would never give up his power (For me that is the reason he needed someone to cast the curse.  He wanted to be able to keep his magic and find Bae.)  and had brought magic to StoryBrooke.    

 

Anyway Hook is quick to deny that he had anything to do with the massacre and he has never been shy about admitting when he did something bad.  In fact admitting good acts is harder for him because he can't show weakness without putting a target on his back.  Admitting bad acts makes him less likely to be a victim.  He freely admitted to taking Aurora's heart.  In addition, Hook seemed to dislike Cora and tells Cora he would enjoy seeing her suffer. 

[Shanna Marie]

After rewatching "The Doctor," I think we might have seen some of his reaction to the massacre. While he was definitely playing Team Princess and lying about who he was and why he was there, I'm not sure that all of his reaction to the massacre was acting. He may have genuinely been wigged-out and in shock. After all, the best lies are built on a foundation of truth, and Emma kept giving him really funny long looks when she was trying to evaluate him. Not that her superpower is ever all that accurate, but if he was both lying and telling the truth at the same time, that might have made him really hard to read. Then I'm not sure his second story about it all having been a plan he was in on was the truth, either. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle -- there may have been a plan to make Team Princess think he was an ally against Cora by making him look like a victim, but the plan didn't involve a massacre. Knowing Cora, she probably went nuts and started ripping hearts out, and when he objected, she threatened to rip his, too, and threw him magically across the camp so that he ended up buried in rubble. Then he went along with the plan to ally himself with Team Princess, but with the twist that he really wanted to team up with them since he'd realized that he didn't want to hitch his horse to the crazy wagon of Cora.

[Dianthus]

Gah! It's like BtVS all over again! The big rap against Spike was that he only did good 'cuz he wanted to get into Buffy's pants. It's freaking me out! It's just so reductive and disingenuous. Heaven forbid a character like Hook or Spike could truly evolve. Dammit! Now my head hurts and I need a new desk.

 

JM has a scar thru one eyebrow. I'd never really noticed it, but now I read that CO has a scar too. Plus, JM had a band (played guitar, lead singer) and CO has a band. Mind blown. Like the similarities between their characters wasn't enough. Does anyone know if CO rides a motorcycle too?

Edited July 9, 2014 by Dianthus

[Mari]

Gah! It's like BtVS all over again! The big rap against Spike was that he only did good 'cuz he wanted to get into Buffy's pants. It's freaking me out! It's just so reductive and disingenuous. Heaven forbid a character like Hook or Spike could truly evolve. Dammit! Now my head hurts and I need a new desk.

I actually don't have a problem with that being the initial reason a character starts changing his (or her) behavior.  It only is an issue if that's the main (or only) reason a character continues.

 

People take a personal inventory for lots of different reasons--and if attraction to someone kick-starts it, I don't see what the problem with that is, as long as the character in question continued to evolve and change, and his/her motives develop into a genuine desire to be that good person he/she thinks the other wants/deserves, instead of a manipulative tool.

 

I think it's a problem when it stays a manipulative tool.  (Although, I think in Hook's case, while Emma's pants might've been a contributing factor, I don't think it was the main reason.  IIRC, hat episode paired Hook with Bae in the fairybacks.  I think his memory of Bae might've been a bigger factor.)

[MaiLuna]

I loved the flashbacks with Bae. I think that was the final straw for Hook to change his ways (especially remembering that Bae told him he was just like Rumpel, the person he hated)

Edited July 10, 2014 by MaiLuna

[sharky]

I loved the flashbacks with Bae. I think that was the final straw for Hook to change his ways (especially remembering that Bae told him he was just like Rumpel, the person he hated)

Which is interesting because then Hook turned it around and told Henry that he was very much like his father, which Henry seemed to be quite enamored with. I really feel like that was another example of Hook getting a second chance to be a father figure and this time get things right that he got wrong last time with Bae. It's too bad the actor who played young Bae has probably grown up too much because I really enjoyed seeing Hook act like a mentor to him.

 

Does anyone know if CO rides a motorcycle too?

After the whole skiing accident, let's hope not! :)

[Shanna Marie]

In rewatching, I noticed that in "Tallahassee" when Hook is playing bait with the giant to get him in position for Emma to drug him and he's trying to goad the giant into attacking him, he says something about how the giant hates humans, "and I'm the worst human who ever lived." I wonder, was that just to egg the giant into attacking him, or had the self-loathing already started? It's possible that he knew all along that he was going down a bad path and he wasn't the man he wanted to be, but he just couldn't let go of the revenge scheme because he thought that getting his vengeance would make everything better. Then the final turn was realizing that getting his revenge didn't change anything, so he'd wasted his life for nothing. His being Emma's cheerleader also started then, when she pulled him out of the rubble after she got the compass from the giant and he enthusiastically told her how brilliant she was. That seemed genuine.

 

I'm also seeing that pattern of the innuendo coming out when he's particularly vulnerable, like it's his way of evening the playing field a bit. There were his bits about Team Princess fighting over who got to go with him up the beanstalk and feeling free to really get into it when he was their prisoner. Then he turned the bedroom eyes on Cora and got up close to her right after she started talking about him being useless to her. I have to give props to Colin for managing to get across a flash of sheer terror in his eyes just before he turned seductive because it turned that scene into something more, where you realized he wasn't just flirting, he was absolutely desperate.

[MaiLuna]

Hook is pretty self-aware. I don't know if there was some self-hatred but he knew he was a villain and he didn't try to hide it or pretend he wasn't one. 

[KAOS Agent]

I suspect that a part of Hook really did believe he was the "worst human around" and it did play into his feelings of self-loathing. However, I would also bet that reputation means a lot in the pirate world (as we saw in "The Jolly Roger") and that being feared can go a long way to keeping others from attacking you or striking fear in the hearts of those he's attacking. Acting big and bad would be ingrained in Hook to help maintain his reputation even if the person he's acting in front of isn't going to be talking to others about him. And I don't think it's a case of Hook creating a false image of the big bad Captain Hook because I truly do believe he wasn't some benign pirate that was all reputation and no substance, but any pirate would want to cultivate as many rumors about himself that he can that would make him seem more dangerous and terrible than any other pirate on the high seas. 

[YaddaYadda]

But Hook was all set to go to Storybrooke with the ladies.  So is it so important for him to "maintain" some sort of reputation about his badassness when he's leaving?  Tallahassee and The Crocodile were actually 2 of my favorite episodes in the whole series.  They were just fun (minus the heart crushing and the hand cutting obviously).  The Crocodile especially, those final shots of the ship sailing were just really awesome.

[Shanna Marie]

The Crocodile especially, those final shots of the ship sailing were just really awesome.

Yes, there's just something about a tall ship sailing that stirs the soul. Taking one of those tall ship cruises is on my bucket list (though it doesn't look like the period ships were actually all that pleasant, if they're anything like the USS Constitution, which made me so claustrophobic I had to get back on deck immediately). So we either need to get the Jolly Roger back or have flashbacks of the Jewel of the Realm/Jolly Roger, and it needs to leave port (and not just in greenscreen) at least once.

 

I don't know if there was some self-hatred but he knew he was a villain and he didn't try to hide it or pretend he wasn't one.

That's where he and Rumple have a lot in common, even though they loathe each other. While Regina sees herself as a victim doing what she had to do to find happiness, both Rumple and Hook had the approach that they knew they were doing bad things, but they felt they had good reasons that justified what they were doing. I think they both see/saw themselves as monsters, to some extent, but they were so driven by their goals that they made themselves do things they hated. However, I think Rumple's levels of self-loathing are much lower, as much as he tells Belle he's a monster in need of change, and he did a lot of evil that had absolutely nothing to do with his goal that he seemed to relish and enjoy. I also don't think he would change anything if he got a do-over. Hook, though, came to realize that his goal was a bad one that hurt himself along with so many others and that did no good at all, and he loathes the person he used to be. The big question is when did that self-loathing start? I don't think what he said to the giant was about reputation because that seems to be the kind of thing where if you have to say it about yourself, it isn't true. Any pirate trying to create or maintain a reputation by talking about how bad he is isn't worth his salt. He may have just been trying to make the giant want to fight him. Or he may already have been aware that he was allying himself with people he despised and doing things that were wrong, but he just couldn't give up yet. He was pretty much courting death, and someone in "go ahead and kill me" mode isn't in a great mental and emotional place. The other big question is how does he feel about himself now? Is he carrying guilt? Does he have a lot of regrets? Or is he at peace, knowing he can't change the past but can only move forward in a different way? He's got something to live for in Emma (and possibly also Henry, if he feels an obligation to look after Bae's son/Milah's grandson), so I don't think he's still got the death wish, but it will be interesting to see how he lives with himself and deals with his own past.

[retrograde]

I also watched "Tallahassee" recently and also picked up on the "worst human around" thing. I think there is an element of self-loathing about Hook. He spends a fair bit of time on his own moping and drinking. And Pan was pretty good at finding peoples' weaknesses and getting in their head, so he must have believed the "one-handed pirate with a drinking problem" bit would sting.

 

As much as Hook has been open with Emma about his feelings for her, he has been pretty closed off when it comes to his own past and demons. I kind of hope they switch roles a bit next season and she pushes him to deal with some of that. It will be a bit of a cop-out if he's able to just put hundreds of years of anger and violence and hurt behind him because he's fallen in love. I very much doubt the show would extend that courtesy to Emma, and as messed up as her life has been, it hasn't been anywhere near as messed up as his.

[KAOS Agent]

What I liked about Hook's change in mindset is that he looked around and realized that he had no one and it was because of his own actions. He didn't like himself at that point, but it must have really thrown him that both the Evil Queen and Rumpelstiltskin had someone in their lives. I mean how bad are you if no one likes you but those two have someone in their lives? Hook's self-awareness is what spurred him to make a change and it must have helped to have gotten some hope from the idea that if those two could find someone after all they'd done in the past, he'd have a chance at happiness too if he could change.

 

I like that Captain Swan never really had anything aside from some sexual attraction until after Hook started to shape up. Emma can get past things that happened in the past, but would never be on board with going anywhere with someone who was still acting like the worst human around. Rumpel/Belle disturbs me because she fell in love with Rumpel while he was doing heinous things and stayed with him even as he continued those actions. She's never pushed him to feel bad about his actions or really evaluate his life in light of them. He gives a token effort to appease Belle and just goes right on being bad. Regina/Henry is even worse because they have whitewashed things to the point where they don't even acknowledge that Regina's actions towards Henry were terrible and she's never had to face those actions and earn back his trust & love. Hook, on the other hand, actually hit rock bottom and realized that what he was doing was not only hurting others, it was hurting him. He was never going to be happy unless he changed and he could actually like himself. It's this difference between Hook and the other villains that makes me more willing to buy that Hook's change is genuine.

[Serena]

Picking up a conversation from the Spoilers thread, am I the only one who doesn't want Hook to ever get his hand back? I kind of like that the dashing love interest, who has the swoonworthy romantic lines, is a man with a disability and it's mostly not a big deal. I wouldn't like the message giving him the hand back would send - that he needs to be "whole" to have his happy ending.

[kili]

Picking up a conversation from the Spoilers thread, am I the only one who doesn't want Hook to ever get his hand back?

 

I could go either way. I like the idea of keeping Hook iconic with his hook and that he doesn't let his disability stop him from doing anything. On the other hand (couldn't resist), it could at some point be an amazing gesture for Rumple's redemption arc for him to get to the point of making amends and given Hook back his hand (he has blamed Hook for taking his wife and causing him to lose his son, so cutting off his hand was part of the punishment for that. Restoring the hand would mean that Rumple has come to terms with what happened and shouldered his own blame). Plus, it opens up the wardrobe options for the character.

 

Finally, as a long time ER watcher, I have to wonder what faking a disability is doing to the actor. On ER, they had a character that had to use a cane to walk. It was much appreciated that it was explained for years and it was never an issue. In the end, they did have to cook up a cure for the character because faking a limp was actually having detrimental effects on the actress's spine. I'm not sure if having your hand crammed into a brace and stiffening your arm movements for hours at a time is the best thing to do to yourself either. Granted ER was on for a lot of years. I also cringe a little when I see Robert Carlyle faking a limp.

[sharky]

Yea, I could go either way too. It's a tough decision for the writers to make either way. That being said, I do feel sorry for Colin sometimes. On the Nerdist podcast Jennifer did, she said Colin laughs at scripts sometimes when the writers have him doing crazy stuff because they forget that Hook only has one hand.

[FurryFury]

There was a post in the Spoilers thread which I felt compelled to answer:

 

I think changing Hook into civvies will ultimately just highlight the basic blandness of the character that began when they switched him from "revenge" mode to "romance" mode.

I can't really, 100%, agree that he's a bland character even now - Neal was a bland character, Graham was a bland character (at least, his Storybooke self, his EF persona was a bit better, as was Neal's younger alter ego), and compared to them, Hook's a veritable fountain of personality. Hell, he's probably less bland than Charming, especially pre-s3 Charming. Also, I never think Hook as villain worked really well (until The Evil Queen and Evil Mastermind Rumple) - he was almost comically inefficient, his powers were incomparable to both of the main villains (and Cora) whom he was working either with or against, and his grievance against Rumple was perfectly legitimate, to the point I was actually rooting for him to avenge Milah (her murder was one of the worst things Rumple has done on-screen and very much inexcusable). So, in s2 finale, I was pretty much ecstatic he was leaving his villainous past behind to become someone I felt he should have been from the beginning - a lovable rogue, trickster, jerk with a heart of gold character. Clichéd, yes, but there is a reason why clichéd stuff works. Tropes are not bad.

 

And it was all good... until, I'd say, "Echoes". Starting with this episode, Hook began to develop/devolve into a love interest for Emma first, character second, and the worst thing is, the writers became obsessed with making him a boyfriend they felt Emma deserved. Partly, I can understand this logic - if anyone deserves happiness and a nice relationship, it's Emma - but it has pretty much "defanged" Hook, to borrow the term. I even understand why people call him bland now - because in 3B, he often was. The belligerence in their relationship is gone, and so are the sparks, mostly. During the finale kiss, I felt nothing (the awkward filming angle surely didn't help, ugh). There are still moments when I remember why I used to like, even ship Captain Swan, like the two Hooks scene in the finale, but they are rare and far between. Hook, as a character, now feels artificial and not real.

 

TLDR: Hook worked best for me in the first 6 or so episodes of season 3, after which he started to gradually lose his edge which made him and his relationship with Emma become less interesting, for me. 

[Serena]

I'm not sure what episode "Echoes" is. You mean "Bleeding Through"? (I'm trying to think which episodes has echoes in it and the only thing that comes to mind is ghost Cora...)

[FurryFury]

Oh, I'm sorry, I meant "Dark Hollow". 

[Shanna Marie]

Hook worked best for me in the first 6 or so episodes of season 3, after which he started to gradually lose his edge which made him and his relationship with Emma become less interesting, for me.

And I'm the exact opposite because that's when I started really liking him. I found him interesting and charismatic as an antagonist, and I had to admit that he had a valid reason for being angry, but I don't really get into the bad boy type. I found him physically attractive because that dark hair, fair skin, blue eyes thing is my type, and the voice and accent are lovely. He was growing on me, and it was kind of bothering me because that whole bad boy with a heart of gold thing leaves me cold. And then there was "Good Form," and I got it. I find the good man who took a fall and is trying to find his way back again so much more interesting than the bad boy with a heart of gold. I love how supportive and caring he is with Emma (forget that final kiss, I think my swoon moments were when he held her while Snow was being burned at the stake and when he wiped her tears after Snow's return). He'll never be that idealistic Lt. Jones again, so he'll never lose the edge entirely, but I'm fascinated by his journey to find himself again, and there's that mix of pirate ruthlessness and gentlemanly gallantry that makes for a lot of potential fun. I guess it's a case of good guy with a dark past vs. bad boy with a heart of gold, and I prefer the former.

 

However, I would love it if in the future they do bother to develop his arc so that it's not just about Emma, so that we see him trying to find his place in a way that's not always about her. His story in season 3 was mostly about supporting and helping her, and that did help him because he'd been on a very selfish path and making his life entirely about another person wasn't a bad step for him to take to shake him out of the selfishness, but he's got a lot of stuff to work out on his own and decisions he needs to make about himself that he shouldn't be making with Emma being his only consideration. I think he's not changing just because of Emma, but I would like to get a stronger sense that he'd still stay on this path even if he were never going to see Emma again.

[YaddaYadda]

I think Hook helping Emma helped heal him, so for me it's a win-win situation for the character.  One of my favorite moments was when he told Emma that him going to find her in New York was the "right thing to do".  I think that may have been the first time that they actually voiced something like this for him, because he has been trying to do or has done the right throughout season 3.

 

I've been thinking about something, how Hook has been going up and even staring down Cora, the Evil Queen, Maleficient (would love to know what the story there is) and Zelena, like how defiant, completely unworried and sort of crazy in the way he has been about them when confronting them, I've been wondering if there isn't something in his backstory to explain his sort of behavior.  I just get the impression there's something more, that goes beyond what he needed from either Cora or Regina for his revenge.

[Shanna Marie]

I think Hook helping Emma helped heal him, so for me it's a win-win situation for the character.

I think it was good for both of them. He'd been incredibly selfish for so long that it was good for him to focus everything on someone else's well-being, with little regard for his own, and she'd never had another person focus entirely on her well-being. But going forward into a relationship, if that's what happens, things need to even out a little and he needs to start working through some of his own issues, perhaps with her help. He's not going to be able to heal entirely or build much of a life if he remains 100 percent about her.

 

I've been thinking about something, how Hook has been going up and even staring down Cora, the Evil Queen, Maleficient (would love to know what the story there is) and Zelena, like how defiant, completely unworried and sort of crazy in the way he has been about them when confronting them, I've been wondering if there isn't something in his backstory to explain his sort of behavior.  I just get the impression there's something more, that goes beyond what he needed from either Cora or Regina for his revenge.

It seems that he's lost so much, over and over again, that he's got a bit of a death wish. He's a survivor and does what it takes to survive, but you also get the feeling that he's not all that afraid of dying as long as he puts up a fight. So far, from what we've seen of his past, his life has been a pretty extreme roller coaster. From the story he told Bae, he seemed to be enjoying the idea of traveling with his father, and then his father abandoned him. Then he was on top of the world as a naval officer serving under his beloved brother, only to have his brother die and his king betray them, which sent him plummeting into piracy. Then he met Milah and they seemed to have had a pretty good time together, but then she was killed and he lost his hand, and he went on another downward spiral. Each time he finds something or someone to live for, something rips it away from him. It actually must take a lot of courage for him to even try again.

 

When they were climbing the beanstalk and he quite accurately sized up Emma and her issues, it reminded me of something I read recently about how survivors of abuse tend to be more acute about reading other people, since it's a survival skill to be able to accurately read another person and be able to anticipate actions, and that made me wonder about him, since he does read other people so well, and he's especially sharp on reading Emma, which could mean they have similar backgrounds and he recognizes things in her that he knows about himself. Not that someone has to have been abused to read people that well because some people are just naturally sensitive or teach themselves to be that way, but the navy and piracy are generally more blunt-force than chess because you don't normally get close enough to your opponents to read their emotional states. He's such a survivor and so bold in the face of bullies, while also being adept at changing his tune on the fly to appease people with power over him, that I get the impression there's some ugly stuff in his backstory that took all these skills to survive, and I don't think it all started with Liam's death. That's part of what made me wonder if Liam was an adoptive brother, and that was a family he fell in with after being abandoned, which would mean yet another hill on that roller coaster, going from abandoned to finding a family to losing that family.

[Souris]

My head canon is that he had to survive by himself on the streets after his father abandoned him at age 7 until he was able to reunite with Liam. (Because of the lack of a mention, I'm assuming their mother was dead.) To me, Liam seemed older enough that he was likely already a cabin boy or in whatever their version of a naval academy was when Killian was abandoned, so it would have taken some time and effort for them to be reunited. So that would have been a pretty dire time period for wee Killian.

[YaddaYadda]

Because of the lack of a mention, I'm assuming their mother was dead

 

I'm starting to have some serious doubts about that, but maybe my brain has totally runaway with my thoughts and expanded them into complete fanfic territory.

[daxx]

I'm starting to have some serious doubts about that, but maybe my brain has totally runaway with my thoughts and expanded them into complete fanfic territory.

You say that like its a bad thing!

[ShadowFacts]

 

It seems that he's lost so much, over and over again, that he's got a bit of a death wish. He's a survivor and does what it takes to survive, but you also get the feeling that he's not all that afraid of dying as long as he puts up a fight.

 

I also have that impression.  I wonder if it doesn't come in part from being alive for a very long time.  However he might now switch gears a bit and feel he has something more to live for.

[Shanna Marie]

My head canon is that he had to survive by himself on the streets after his father abandoned him at age 7 until he was able to reunite with Liam.

That was my primary head canon until this week when the thought popped into my head that we don't know for sure that they're biological brothers, and then everything snapped into place. If Killian was adopted by, say, an admiral's family after surviving on the streets and in their equivalent of the foster system (basically, people taking in children to use as slave labor) for a while, then that would explain how the abandoned son of a fugitive managed to become a naval officer instead of just an ordinary sailor, how he learned to be at home at a royal ball and otherwise act like a gentleman. He took offense and said "I am a gentleman" when Emma made a snarky remark about him being a gentleman when they were climbing the beanstalk, and coming from his world, that means a particular status in society, while in Emma's world it's come to mean the kind of behavior that you expect from someone with that status. If he was a little insecure about his status in that world, that could explain why Lt. Jones was trying a wee bit too hard about having Good Form.

 

Of course, I'm probably wrong, but I have a new head canon running now about young Liam finding a little boy bravely standing up to a gang in the streets and taking him home to get that cut on his face tended to, and the family deciding to take him in once they learned of his plight. It's possible I've read way too much Dickens.

[Souris]

They've certainly left Killian's past open enough that a great many things could work. Honestly, the only things we really know about his early years are that: 1) His father abandoned him when he was 7, because Dad was a fugitive, and 2) He had a brother named Liam. Vast amounts of things could fit in there. Your adoption idea could certainly work.

 

I hope they do something to fill in the copious gaps.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Souris

[Shanna Marie]

Honestly, the only things we really know about his early years are that: 1) His father abandoned him when he was 7, because Dad was a fugitive

We don't even know how true that is, since we haven't seen it in flashback and we know Hook is a rather adept liar when he's trying to manipulate people, especially during his villain days, so he could have been spinning a yarn based on what Bae said in order to get Bae to relate to him and trust him. I'm inclined to believe there was at least a germ of truth in there because he gets Emma too well not to have some background in common with her, but given what we know of Hook in that phase of his life, I wouldn't scream "Continuity Issue!!!" if we later get a flashback that contradicts part of that story because him lying is entirely plausible. At the very least, the story was edited because it left out the older brother and made it sound like he was utterly alone in the world, and we know the brother existed. It's possible that he was alone at that time and the brother wasn't nearby, but he didn't mention a brother to Bae, and probably because it made their situations less similar. I guess I'll reassess when I get there in the rewatch.

 

We've been discussing his costume in the spoiler thread, and the outfit he was wearing in the "Queen of Hearts" flashbacks was mentioned -- the doublet/vest over a shirt. I think that's actually his normal outfit, what he wears under the coat. It looks like the same shirt/vest, and the collar of the vest comes up over the collar of the coat. I think that's just the only time we see his usual outfit without the coat.

[KAOS Agent]

The vest is different. It's made of some sort of velvet-like material and is double breasted I think, not the leather one with the silver clasps he wears now. The shirt is probably the same though since it would be designed to fit with the hook. 

 

 

At the very least, the story was edited because it left out the older brother and made it sound like he was utterly alone in the world, and we know the brother existed. It's possible that he was alone at that time and the brother wasn't nearby, but he didn't mention a brother to Bae, and probably because it made their situations less similar.

 

Or you know, Liam was an idea the writers came up with later to create Hook's Neverland story, so he's sort of a ret-con that isn't because I agree that Hook's tale of parental abandonment to Bae seemed a little too exact to not be embellished if nothing else.

[InsertWordHere]

I love the velvet vest. I think Shanna Marie might have been referring to his non-flashback leather tunic seen here (the angle of that photo make the hook look like a deadly letter opener). I believe he's had it on in every current timeline scene he's been in since The Crocodile, except for the lovely poncho he wore when pretending to be a blacksmith. I've always thought it was the same except its collar might be pushed down and the collar of the linen shirt is pushed up when he has the coat on and I think they removed one of the clasps. Here's  some behind the scenes pics of him with the coat on where you can still see the lacing on the sides of the tunic.

Edited July 12, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[daxx]

The only time this season we saw him in the black without the coat on was the coconut sharing scene. But I cannot get a good look to see if the vest has the capped shoulders.

[InsertWordHere]

Doesn't look like it, daxx. Hmm.

 

But in this one, doesn't it kind of look like they just puled the laces out and took the sleeves off?

Edited July 12, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[sharky]

Yea, I've always just assumed that the vest he wears under the leather jacket is the same as the one he wore climbing the beanstalk with the cap sleeves unlaced to accommodate the coat. Either way, I miss them all. In season 2, he had a nice variety of vests. Last season, we got a few flashbacks with the red vest and that's it. I can understand that with situations in each half season, it would be impossible to change but I need variety!

[daxx]

Colin has such great long legs please give him something that doesn't cover them all season. :)

[Shanna Marie]

Or you know, Liam was an idea the writers came up with later to create Hook's Neverland story, so he's sort of a ret-con that isn't because I agree that Hook's tale of parental abandonment to Bae seemed a little too exact to not be embellished if nothing else.

That is entirely possible, but they did establish in Hook's very first appearance that he knew about Neverland and that it was a place to go to get something he needed to kill Rumple, so they already must have had something in mind for a backstory that probably involved someone dying in Neverland. They may not have pinned it down to the death of a beloved older brother, but I would hope they had at least some sense of an origin story for Hook -- was he always a pirate, how did he become one, etc. They've been vague enough so far, and Hook is enough of an unreliable narrator about his own life, that they can probably do just about anything pre-"Good Form" without it being a real retcon. Abandoned/fatherless kids seem to be a trigger for him, enough that he was willing to give up pursuit of Emma so Henry could have his father in his life, and he figured out Emma's past without her having said a word, which indicates there may have been some truth to the story, and my guess is they'll go in that direction because they like showing parallels between Hook and Emma. Where Liam fits into the abandoned kid scenario remains to be seen -- was he actually not present, or was he conveniently edited out of the story for maximum empathy?

 

I think one of my favorite Villain!Hook moments was when he and Cora first arrived in Storybrooke and Cora turned the man on the dock into a fish. Hook then kicked the fish into the water in a way that made it look on the surface like he was being all badass and cruel, but the fish had been floundering and was dying, so his action saved its life. It was such a funny little touch that suggested there might be hope for him while he still didn't look mushy. My initial response to the kick was "What a jerk," and then there was the "oh, wait, that saved his life" realization.

[Souris]

Colin's scruff is definitely back. Pics of him and Josh at a soccer match tonight:

https://twitter.com/lemon_buzz/status/488143294459674625/photo/1

https://twitter.com/lemon_buzz/status/488147087645609984

https://twitter.com/lemon_buzz/status/488151376409542658/photo/1

Edited July 13, 2014 by Souris

[pezgirl7]

Well that didn't take long! Here's another pic:

https://mobile.twitter.com/lemon_buzz/status/488151376409542658

They both look awesome.

[retrograde]

What's funny is Josh seems to have been cultivating his beard all break, but he has been bested in two weeks.

[Souris]

A few more:

https://twitter.com/lemon_buzz/status/488179254006263808

https://twitter.com/lemon_buzz/status/488180483612610560

https://twitter.com/sofdelrio/status/488179192547115008/photo/1

Edited July 13, 2014 by Souris

[CatMack]

How did they get more attractive over the hiatus? This is entirely unfair of them.

[Shanna Marie]

And now I think we can see why they put Hook in all the bulky layers. In normal clothes, Colin's so tiny next to Josh. Not a big height difference, but he's more slightly built.

[Kaw912]

And now I think we can see why they put Hook in all the bulky layers. In normal clothes, Colin's so tiny next to Josh. Not a big height difference, but he's more slightly built.

Yeah, I've noticed that before. You can tell that Colin was "the skinny kid" growing up from his build. That may explain some of his shyness in real life. Guys can be really self conscious about being skinny, especially in their teens.

[Souris]

Colin amused by a fan's Hook shirt on-set (no spoilers in pic).

[Dianthus]

Random Thought #1:

As someone who's spent the majority of his adult life at sea, I think it's very possible that Hook served with what we would call gay men. He seems secure enough in his own sexuality, and just pretty chill in general, that he wouldn't have a problem with this. There's nothing to argue that Liam himself was straight, and it's one possible explanation of why Hook referred to him as 'brother' so often, so people didn't get the wrong idea. 

 

Random Thought #2:

While 'pirate' sounds more dashing and romantic, Hook was (essentially) the CEO of a small, employee-owned-and-operated company. Given that a sailboat is 'a hole in the water you pour money into,' it's no wonder that money would be a constant source of concern for him. There's repair and maintenance on the ship (hull, rigging, and sails), provisions for the crew, and bribes for the local authorities. 

Then you've gotta know the right people, to get the best return on loot/goods, and know your market(s) for the same reason. Staying in good with the local working girls could be a profitable source of info, as well as a way of blowing off steam. I see Hook as having an eye for the finer things, so I'm thinking small shipments of this-and-that (most perfectly legal) like antiquities a/o objet-d'art. We know he didn't rely entirely on piracy to pay the bills, considering his willingness to take on paying passengers.

His men (shareholders all) seemed to respect and admire their captain a great deal.

[pezgirl7]

I just have to share part of a dream I had last night. I basically dreamt an entire episode of OUAT, and at the end, Emma was trying to convince Hook to not let certain people bother him, and she says "Screw them, Killian!" And then he says, with total sincerity, "Emma, you know you're the only one I screw". Fade to black. I remember thinking that was kind of shocking dialogue for the show, but that the girls on tumblr are probably going nuts because it confirms that they've been sleeping together. I also thought that the line was total fan service and pandering to the CS fans, but I didn't care because I'M a CS fan! LOL Then I dreamt the preview for the next episode, which involved Ariel and a very young Killian. Then I woke up!

Edited July 23, 2014 by pezgirl7

[Souris]

Looks like Colin initiated the Frozen newbies into his pastime of attending sporting events. They're just too effing adorable all in their hats. Pardon me while I flail off into a cuteness-overload stupor.

 

I have to say, it hit me hard that Georgina and Ellzabeth look freakily like they could be sisters for real in this pic. They look like they have the EXACT SAME NOSE AND MOUTH. (FYI: Apparently the other guy is Georgina Haig's hubby.)

 

As an aside, I may have been looking at a OUAT web page at work today, and a co-worker may have walked past and asked, "Hey, is that a Once Upon a Time page? My wife thinks Hook is hot!" And I may have concurred.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Souris

[Shanna Marie]

Spinning off a speculative discussion in the spoilers thread (but no actual spoilers here): Would Hook want his hand back, if such a thing were possible?

But I feel like we still need more from Hook's end with him realizing he wants his hand back, because so far, we've actually seen that he enjoys his hook and it isn't a hindrance for him. Why would he want something back that he hasn't missed?

I don't know how much he enjoys it and doesn't consider it a hindrance and how much he's making the best of the situation. He very much has that "never let 'em see you sweat" attitude toward life in general, like the way he never outwardly shows any fish out of water reactions to our world and seldom acts at all surprised or shocked by anything. I'm not sure I can recall him complaining about much of anything, other than having his hook taken away from him. He's stoic to a fault. I think it would just about kill him for Rumple in particular or probably anyone else to know that losing the hand bothered him. So instead he turns the loss into a weapon and adds it to his swagger, making it iconic. That doesn't mean he wouldn't jump at the chance to have two good hands again (not that he'd let any eagerness show). There are a lot of things he can't do, even with the hook. I think it would be difficult and dangerous for him to pick up a baby, for instance. He could hold one placed in his arms, but he wouldn't be able to get a grip to lift. It would be a real challenge to wash dishes (not that anyone would necessarily want to wash dishes, but if you're an independent person, not being able to do something for yourself would be annoying). Multi-tasking would be difficult. Even if he learned to drive, he might have trouble driving Emma's car, since it's a stick shift and I'm not sure the hook would be good for holding onto a steering wheel while he shifted with his other hand.

[kili]

Even if he learned to drive, he might have trouble driving Emma's car, since it's a stick shift and I'm not sure the hook would be good for holding onto a steering wheel while he shifted with his other hand.

 

LOL. That's easy. Hook can hook the hook around the "spokes" of the steering wheel (it would be old school style without an air bag). He'll be doing a hell of a lot better than those goobers who drive stick while drinking coffee or texting. For washing dishes, he can use an attachment (look how many he has at the :57 second mark). The baby is tricky. He should probably wear his fake hand or nothing at all. Experienced parents can use the football hold.

 

But he could use the hand back for playing guitar, for beating Henry at Diablo 3 or for more options when making tacos with Emma.

[Serena]

I just think it sends a shitty message. I can understand all the character-driven motivations for giving him his hand back - he's made whole again, Emma "fixes" him, blah blah blah - but the thing is, Hook is one of the very few disabled characters on television. Giving him his hand back just when he finally gets with the heroine is truly terrible. I get all the "but every disabled person in the world would jump at the opportunity to get their hand reattached if they could!" - yeah, but there's no magic in the real world, and sending a "you need to be fixed to get your happy ending" message to people who don't have the opportunity to be fixed is problematic. How about "you don't need to be physically whole to be happy" and "you can be a dashing leading man who gets with the beautiful, kickass princess even if you're disabled"?