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Arandil

Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

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Yes! Our favorite devishly handsome, dashing rapscallion is the first one to have a thread over here! Because Yay!!!!

And because if I cannot fangirl about Hook, I don't know how I will get through my day.

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Nicely done Arandil!  I love the new description and have little doubt that there is much more to discuss and debate about his past villainy, his current role on Team Nevengers: The Age of WWW,  and of course his yet to be revealed year in the Enchanted Forest.

And if in those conversations his blue eyes and chest hair come up from time to time, well, these things happen.

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Love the thread title! I wonder if he still has a drinking problem? We haven't seen him take a drink except with Emma in her apartment. He obviously didn't quit cold turkey!

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I've been wanting this thread renamed this since Pan said it. Totally awesome.

Um, on topic. I am sure that Hook was being supportive of Emma when he said he was glad her heart was broken. He even prefaced his statement with don't take this the wrong way. He will need to come clean with Emma soon though whatever he is hiding.

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I don't know if he was being supportive, so much as encouraging (I know, nitpicky...) Like, yeah, it sucks to have your heart broken, but it means you can still love, which is important.

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One thing I read somewhere else that really resonated with me is that Hook's last true love, Milah, had her heart ripped out of her chest and died in front of him. So it's not just that Emma's heart can be broken and therefore can also love. It's that she still has a heart in the first place. And also remember his comment about saving Emma from a loveless marriage, something he actually already has done once before with Milah.

Even though we don't hear much about Milah and Hook's revenge anymore, we also know how much TPTB love their parallels on this show. So it could get very interesting as Captain Swan progresses to see how Hook's relationship with Milah manifests itself in this new potential relationship of his.

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I'm a sucker for affably evil anti-villains/anti-heroes who are lovesick wrecks.  It doesn't hurt that he's quite handsome.  

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I'm not sure what it is but I'm not excited about what they are doing with Hooks character at the moment. Perhaps the material is not giving him enough range or something but I miss the spunky, fun hook. I do like that they have given him depth and that he is growing as a character, but, I don't know. That mischievous spark seems to be missing now. I'm hoping his centric episode makes room for all the delectable facets of Hooks character we've seen so far.

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I just can't get excited about his character.  I mean, I get why he is appealing, but he does nothing for me.  Plus, I don't think he's atoned enough (nor is contrite enough) to make up for the horrible things he's done in the past.  Maybe a Hook-centric episode will help.

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Well, it's hard to be mischievous when your beloved ship is gone, you're mouring a friend from the past and the son of the woman you loved dearly and the woman you gave your heart to keeps putting up her walls even higher...

But I am biased, as I adore Hook. And i think he did atone more for his deeds than Regina did. And Rumple.

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Yeah I get that. For the record I am a hook fan and a CS shipper. I understand there is a lot going on for him at the moment. I just miss the 'devil may care' attitude Hook had before his neverland centric. Once it was officially established that he is in love with Emma, that spunk diminished and Iv rarely seen it since. I think he can be redeemed and still be...well...Hook :). I'm hoping this next centric allows him to have some cheeky fun. It looks promising.

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Yeah there's no reason really why Hook can't carrying on flirting wildly and inappropriately with other women while being in love with Emma.  It doesn't mean he's interested.  It's more of an act, a strategy to annoy the other person or put them off balance or get something from them, and apart from certain exceptions he would probably run a mile if they did respond to it.  It would be fun to watch Emma roll her eyes while he was doing it or have her snarking about it.

It isn't too bad at the moment but unless Emma starts giving some more encouragement or he walks away or moves on, I could see it all going a bit friends with detriments  https://xkcd.com/513/

 

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Yeah there's no reason really why Hook can't carrying on flirting wildly and inappropriately with other women while being in love with Emma.

I'd be happy if he was just flirting wildly and inappropriately with Emma. When was the last time we saw any innuendo? I miss fun Hook too, but he'll be back next week. I have a good feeling about Hook-centric episodes.

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Sadly, this show's plot, plot, plot mentality has made it really inappropriate for Hook to be flirty at all right now (although given how they're constantly in crisis mode, there's never an appropriate time). Still how ridiculous would it be for him to be flirting with Emma the day after her first love died in her arms? A guy whom he is also mourning. Not cool. That said, I'm done with being sad, Neal wanted Emma to be happy so bring back flirty Hook. He makes Emma smile. 

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You know I think you may have hit the nail on the head for me. Hook was always a bright spot in the midst of the melodrama. Even when he was in vendetta mode and getting his arse handed to him it was light-ish and entertaining. The show needs that to balance out the gloom and I'd prefer it be Hook than some other character because he's so fun to watch. I'm really looking forward to the next instalment!!

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Considering I never felt any attraction toward Captain Jack Sparrow, I didn't think the swashbuckling, eye liner look (let alone the pirate attitude) was an attraction to me. But pictures of Co'D without wearing the Hook garb (or, at least wearing the Hook persona) do nothing for me.

Yikes! I am attracted to bad boys that wear eyeliner! That can't be good.

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Off topic, but same subject: KarateKate, have you ever seen Richard Armitage in Robin Hood? Totally guylined and absolutely fantastic! I think the blue eyes sell the thing, though!

Btw, has anyone noticed that Robert Carlyle wears make up too?

TBH, I'm rather tired of puppy eyed Hook and miss fun Hook a lot. Hopefully we'll have him back?

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I think that New York City Serenade struck the perfect balance between puppy love Hook and the arrogant sauntering jerkass douche that I fell in love with, so I can deal with sad flat-quippy Hook for a few episodes more.

The diner scene with Emma this episode 3.16, I love it. Although the dart board also makes me miss Graham. Hook's getting all up in Emma's personal space even though she almost jabbed him in the face with a feather there.

"What, rum?"

"Doesn't hurt!" Wow, he was holding up that flask as if he had it out already. Why. The bar was right there. Granny obviously caters to daytime drinkers. I was expecting his liquor brand logo to pop up at the corner of the scene, he was so game about it.

"Leather, conditioner, and eyeliner?" Hook actually didn't have eyeliner on in that scene, though.

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the arrogant sauntering jerkass douche that I fell in love with,

I LMAO so hard at that. Because it is accurate. I often wonder what it says about me that I fall in love with characters like this... and then get annoyed at them when they go all woobie or puppy.

And darts made me miss Graham too.

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Hook's a fantasy, so I'd say it's perfectly healthy and this opinion is completely and utterly unbiased of course ;-)

(Although if you want to get all Jungian about it, a dastardly mischievous Animus might be a good sign because we tend to get infatuated with qualities matching unrealized potential within ourselves or something. It's just that as Alex said Hook is usually just so fun.)

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Haha my 12 year old said the same thing about Graham when she saw the dart board scene and that got me thinking about Graham and I had to go back and watch his centric out of curiosity. I must admit I liked him better this time around. Oh well, Hooks still my number one :)

I enjoy Hooks character and was excited for his relationship with Emma to develop. I just didn't think they would do it at his expense. There is a difference between being persistant and being pathetic. He's currently straddling that line. I really hope the writers know what they are doing and can reel me back in with an epic emotional pay-off, without sacrificing All the things that make Hooks character great.

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As I also said on Twop, I do not trust the writers for this new and improved Hook, because it looks to me like they are merging the worst in both Neal and Hook into one character. I fear they will have him do "romantic" stuff like the ones that turned people off Swanfire. Like "protecting her for her own good" or "leave her in jail because some guy and you decided it's best". Frankly, I am most concerned about him becoming boring now that they've decided that he and Emma are end game, take out the "guyliner and leather aficionado sexy pirate" and replace it with angst.

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I loved the remix of the pirate theme in The Jolly Roger episode, and the fight choreography, and seeing Hook's fierce Face of Resolve again.

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I enjoyed the swashbuckling. It was very good for Once. I would like to see Hook have more opportunity to sword fight, Charming too. After the scene on the docks with Hook and Emma I really want him to mention just once that he wasn't really trying to defeat her at Nostos. Not that he exactly threw the fight but he really was just toying with her and she caught him off guard with the punch. He obviously wasn't as knocked out as he looked if he saw her defeat Cora.

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After the scene on the docks with Hook and Emma I really want him to mention just once that he wasn't really trying to defeat her at Nostos. Not that he exactly threw the fight but he really was just toying with her and she caught him off guard with the punch. He obviously wasn't as knocked out as he looked if he saw her defeat Cora.

I heard that there is an interview where O'Donoghue said that Hook did lose on purpose, but I can't find it anywhere, forgot who said that in the first place, and they didn't provide a link.

That said, Hook has been way psychic this season. How did he know that Snow and Regina reconciled their differences? How did he know that Baelfire was going to resurrect the dark one for magic to get him back to Land Without Magic? Hook wasn't there, he was riding away. So if he was truly knocked out cold and still managed to see the power inside Emma when Cora tried to take her heart, I don't know. Maybe Hook will grow a third eye on the palm of his hand and become a Seer!

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Originally I had this, my first post, in the 3.17 thread, because it was about the kiss curse, but then I got more into Hook's motivations and reasons, so... I guess it fits better here? I dunno; confused.

First-time poster; only recently started watching the show and buying past episodes to catch up. I should also note that I seem to have a lot of trouble keeping up with and understanding plots, even without plot holes! Soooo... be gentle, please. ;)

At first, I too was like "Why doesn't he just tell someone about the curse kiss and get it over with / let them deal with it?" I don't buy the "I'm too ashamed to talk about love!" theory, sorry. Yes, he feels bad for everything he's done to Ariel, but I don't think he would let it crush him like this... Really?! C'mon, it was less than a year ago that he was fighting Blackbeard, which obviously required a backbone, right?

Plus, I agree with the poster(s) above who noticed that he was going to specifically see Mary Margret. (I just rewartched that ending; he specifically asked for Mary Margret and was surprised and disappointed to find Emma there.)

I believe he has a plan. A plan that either involved Mary Margret or that he wanted to run by her (perhaps involving her unborn baby... *inquistive eyebrow raise* He's heard that baby is fought over for it's incredible power. And Neverland involves kids... And... )I dunno; I'm grasping at straws as to what his plan is, but I'm sure he has one. I also beliieve his plan is to take down or at least hinder the WW; not just escape from the curse, run away with somebody, and continue running. Why?

A) He's not a coward, even as (oh, what's the fandom adjective? I forget.) crushed as he is right now. This *is* the same guy who ragged on Rumple for being a coward as if it was the WORST thing in the world.

B) He *thrives* on getting out of trouble, handcuffs, or what have you. Not the fighting, necessarily, but outhinking and / or avoiding the trouble. SURVIVING certain death / doom / injury. Isn't that what I've read on every single fan analysis ever?! So he's not going to bow out of this fight either. He's going to make a plan to SURVIVE, as always.

C) I point to his sullen, moody scenes in this latest episode (bleeding through) as evidence of him silently planning this... plan. Yeah, he's sad. Even when you are forming or have a plan to get out of something it still hurts until it's healed / solved, doesn't it? And look again at his dismals of Emma -- when I look at him as a man trying to think and scheme, I see his dismals as his normal / snarky / Captain side coming out and telling Emma to buzz off so he can think. Right then, love and flirting is just a (painfull) distraction for his... *revenge* on Zelena. (Oh gee, where have we seen that connection to Hook before?!)

D) In the very conversation where his lips are cursed, he says something about "I will beat you" or find a way or something. So, even then, his revenge / survival mode was kicking in. That mode isn't going to turn off 10 minutes later is it?... Surely not, or he's more moody than me! ;)

E) We now know Zelena's trying to go back in time. As I said in my intro, I'm not caught up on my timeline yet, but I suspect the time period Zelena wants to go back to is one that we don't know where Hook was or what he was doing. Perhaps he will be plot-aware in that time period (he got to New York somehow, so I wouldn't put it past the writers), and do something to help take down Zelena.

F) Not going to the diner with the family at the end of 3.18 is quite a bit outside my above theories. I chalk it up to point C above; he's hurting and doesn't want to pour salt in the open wound of his heart while he's trying to focus on revenge. He is kinda good on focusing on revenge, from what I gather. ;)

I dunno, but I really don't think he's giving up, or skipping town to run away.

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I love Hook. He reminds me so much of Spike from BtVS (another favorite of mine), with Emma as Buffy and Neal as Angel for good measure.   

Has anyone here come across any info about his wardrobe? I read somewhere there's a reason they're dressing him as they do, and his wardrobe will eventually change, and it's symbolically significant.

Edited by Dianthus

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They really need to give Hook more interaction with characters other than Emma, as that's about the only time he's been at all sparky in 3b - complaining about David setting him up as cannon fodder, his disdain for Smee and the oh so insincere apology to Belle.

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I love Hook with Emma generally -- just not recent mopey Hook.  I liked him better again in 3.20 when he was getting in her face a bit.  That's the Killian Jones I know and love!

 

I absolutely think in season 4 we need Hook to have a storyline that has him out on an adventure for at least a few episodes without Emma, similar to season two when Snow and Charming were separated.  I would love to see Hook and Charming (I love it when Hook calls him Dave...) have to go out on a bromance adventure together and rely on eachother for more than a couple minutes of an episode.  They have great chemistry and the Hook character could really benefit from a storyline (The Jolly Roger episode aside) that is not Emma-centric. It would really help to deepen what is already one of my favorite characters.

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Yeah, Spike was a lot less fun in s7. His redemption was great and all, but "let's-take-our-funniest/sexiest/most-playful-character-and-make-it-so-he-can't-be-any-of-that" kinda sucked.

Hoping Hook gets his groove back soon.

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I cannot seem to stop watching the season 3 finale, and I fully blame Colin/Hook for the addiction.

 

Pretty much every scene he is in, I have to re-watch umpteen times. And every single one is my favorite for varying reasons.

 

And that kiss at the end... (sigh).

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From the finale thread:

 

 

To me, it just seemed like she didn't want to get with him because she was...wait for it!...just not that interested.

 

At first I too thought Hook had no chance in hell with Emma. When she first kissed him, I thought it was out of nowhere!

What sold it for me was the moment in Neverland when Hook is telling her that he would win her heart. Her response was, "This is not a contest". And for me, that said he was in the running. Also, not backing away from him when she was telling him this. It seemed to me they were way up in each others personal space. 

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To me, One of the downfalls of the Emma character is that she often, with everyone, appears to be such a blatant hard ass. And unattractive because of it.

Many times I have just hoped Hook would connect with someone who showed more genuine passion and warmth. Yeah, she has baggage. They all do. The writers gave her some heart at just the right time because she was dangerously close to being a total biatchhhhh .

But being connected heart wise to Emma for more than three episodes is good for the life expectancy of Hook!

She still has a lot more to prove to be trusted as Hook's life partner, but so far A&E seem seriously dedicated to keeping Hook a very major character. Quite often, it seems to me that they don't really know where the heck they are going. Treading plot water only works for so long.

But our luscious leather dude is a survivor! For as long as he is, and if they continue to

allow him to have a sassy, passion driven and temperamental personality, I'll be around to enjoy the trip! They had me at "Yo-Ho" (grin)

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When we met Neal and he came back to Storybrooke I was completely sure he and Emma were endgame. They had a kid together and theirs was a star-crossed lovers story. I hated Neal and I loved Hook since the first moment I saw him, but I had no hope until Neal died for good. I wonder if the writers realized audience prefered Hook for Emma and changed their plans for those characters.

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Is Neal really dead for good? This is the kind of show where that's not so clear cut, I think. I hope so(?), not b/c I hated the character, but I love Hook and Emma so, so much.

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 I wonder if the writers realized audience prefered Hook for Emma and changed their plans for those characters.

 

Honestly, I think (like so many things) in hindsight it is rather blatant that Hook has been slated for Emma since "Tallahassee". Sure, it's possible with "The Crocodile" he was going to be a "just a villain", but based on the filming of that episode (before it even aired to fans, just people inside the show), they decided to make Colin a main cast member (probably so he couldn't join another show, b/c they had plans.. big ones). 

 

The chemistry in "Tallahassee" pretty much cinched it in stone (IMO). It was planned, but had the chemistry not been there, they still could've changed it. 

 

Why do I think this? Because the episode where Hook and Emma got to know each other is the same episode we see her past with Neal. It wasn't to make us see Emma's endgame with Neal, it was done as a contrast to demonstrate why Emma would leave Hook chained on the top of the beanstalk. She was so damaged by Neal in the trust department, that when she found herself trusting Hook and (heaven forbid) actually liking him a bit, she was scared shitless and left him behind even though (logically) it would've been much safer to keep him around until they went through the portal so he couldn't rejoin with Cora.

She couldn't even give Hook a good reason when he pointed out truthfully that he hadn't told another lie, just "I can't be wrong about you". If he didn't have power to hurt her, he wouldn't have been a threat.

 

So yeah, planned way before fans weighed in, and since it was for Emma, a slow journey was always going to be the case. I think Colin's broken leg made his transition seem more abrupt than was initially planned, but I don't think any of it was done for Captain Swan fans: it was done b/c A&E love Hook. They love Colin as Hook. They love the leather. They love the pirate. And they love him with Emma.

There are lots of little things done along the way that when added up form a very clear picture.

I think Neal was always slated to die. Some of the earliest dialogue about Neal was "he died a hero" and surprise, now Snowing are on that bandwagon and named little Snowflake after Neal. Then Emma wished he was dead.

Lines about Hook are always about his survival: "That's not in the cards for you. I want you to live so you can suffer, as I have suffered."-Rumple, "You couldn't have survived that." "You should know by now the one thing I excel at is surviving."-Regina; and of course Emma's "Hook, come back to me." 

I mean, Hook has had someone's hand on his heart, ready to crush it three times (almost a 4th): by Rumple, Cora, then Rumple again and we all know how Rumple wanted to kill him. Yet he lives. Regina betrayed him to Maleficent and left him for dead. Zelena drowned him.

And Hook still lives on. 

Hook isn't going anywhere as long as Colin is happy, and he seems very happy to have consistent work and enjoys playing Hook (and moved his family to Vancouver for filming). So yeah, Hook should be around, as Emma's endgame love interest needs to be. And as the rest of the male main cast are either related to her and/or already a part of a "destined" couple... they can't have her suffer from the same fate of Grumpy with Nova (i.e. actor too busy to be there).

I think it is also the reason Hook has remained un-cursed (minus his lips), to avoid having false memories taint his love for Emma, so that it can be real while simultaneously blowing her mind that she loves a fairy tale character: a pirate who gave up his ship (his home) for her.

While I doubt their relationship will play out with full on rainbows and unicorn stickers, I hope they keep the show true to character (like Castle did), b/c just watching them work together (when Emma isn't being totally closed off) was awesome to watch. There is no reason having them be an official couple (which they have been to everyone BUT Emma, basically) should alter any of that.

Edited by OnceUponSomeChaos
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Methinks Neal is gone. And yeah, it is a good thing. Not for the continuation of Captain Swan, that was going to happen no matter what.

Just because his story was a dead end. Emma had never regained the love for him she had as a teen and never would. He would have been an odd duck out with Henry and his two Moms. And his death gave Rumple a regained hard edge.

 

I think the writers gave a *faux heroic* farewell to Neal and naming the child after him (though I felt the child deserved his own identity) was homage to the fans. But, the baby is here and you can't have two characters with the same name at the same time, so yeah, Neal is gone.

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I agree with OnceUponSomeChaos.  not only I think Hook was meant to be as a love interest for Emma but I also think Neal was doomed in 'Tallahassee', once they had him send Emma to Jail (regardless of his empty excuses and reasoning which don't fly with me) there was no coming back from it, and if it wasn't enough 'Manhattan' nailed his coffin (no pun intended) as Emma's love interest, imo you can't have True love say that if he had known who she really was he would have never come near her, especially when Emma's whole life has been about trying to find out who she is and accept it, this is her journey.

 

I also think that Colin's injury put a hold on the so called 'triangle' and they were forced to change the direction of the plot because of it, if you look at the interactions of Emma-Neal from 'Manhattan' until the end of season2 in almost everyone of them you can see a reason why he is not good for her, once Colin was availible they needed to start with his understanding why his revenge left him empty then deepen his relationship with Emma, 

 

I get why it's hard to see how Emma feels when it comes to pretty much everything and everyone (minus Henry but in S1 it was there as well), because she is so closed off and has tones of walls around her you won't get a blunt dialog that will tell or 'prove' how she feels, she won't even admit it to herself because she can't take her guards off, it's all in the subtext, body movement, little actions and expressions and JMo is so good in those.

I see so many when it comes to Hook, by the end of the season you saw a friendship between them, much like MM was with Emma in S1 and even a deeper one, she was more open about her feelings (on anything) with him than with anyone EVER, s3 to me is a buildup of a strong foundation to a relationship that is based on trust, love, understanding, truth...it was all there she only needed to take her walls down to see what is right in front of her and allow herself it...I loved that Hook knew exactly what she needed and gave it to her, steady steps and with patience

 

Yeah Emma is a tough lass to a point that it might seem that you see no emotions from her, she makes Hook work hard and us as well, but once she is there, she is there completly, the scene beofre the kiss for me was the last brick of her walls.

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I like how Hook wears his heart on his sleeve when it comes to Emma, but he doesn't demand she return his feelings.  He wants her to, but he doesn't believe he is entitled to Emma just because he loves her.  Instead Hook shows her how much he cares by being there when she needs him.  If he disagrees with her about something, he'll discuss it and try to change her mind, but Hook isn't all "You have to do this because it's what I want."

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As with the True Love couples on this show he knows what to say and do to help her be the best version of herself. As she does for him.

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Colin has a film role. With singing!

 

Doesn't specify the role, but sounds like Brennan to me.

 

I would imagine he'd have to start filming pretty soon if he's fitting it in before OUAT starts back. Though since it's a small-budget indie, the shoot will be short. And because one of the creative team works on "Nashville," I demand a Deacon Claybourne/Charles Esten cameo. Or Gunnar Scott/Sam Palladio at the very least. So that two of my fandoms can collide.

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TigerLynx... Absolutley.  His love for her is obvious and he made his intentions clear to her in Neverland, but beyond that didn't pressure Emma.  He expressed his love by being a constant support and believing in her.  Still, he managed to not be a complete love-sick idiot and stood up to her when whe needed hard truths.  Nothing sexier than all of that. 

 

 

 

Souris..    Hmm. Colin in a film role,  Singing.  Yep, I'll be watching that. 

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I still want my musical episode of OUAT.  The entire main cast has talent out the wazoo when it comes to singing, dancing and instruments.  I don't care how they do it, but I think it would be an amusing and light-hearted change of pace.

 

PS - More roles for Colin, yay!  It's quite fun to watch him rise in stardom over the years.  And I love that this is an indie project with a kick starter.

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Has anyone else seen "The Commitments"? Irish Colin in a Nashville-set movie makes me unable to get the image of Bertie singing country-and-western at the end out of my mind. LOL!!

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Has anyone else seen "The Commitments"? Irish Colin in a Nashville-set movie makes me unable to get the image of Bertie singing country-and-western at the end out of my mind. LOL!!

Colin has done American accents before. He could be American in this film, not Irish. I would like to see him in something with his natural accent.

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I was thinking/hoping that since the male lead is named Brennan, which is an Irish name, that he might just be able to use his natural accent.

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