Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

[RadioGirl27]

Yeah, all this would be interesting but instead we would discover that Hook accidentally killed Charming's father while he was kidnapping Jasmine for Jafar after having a sexual affair with both Cora and Regina (but not at the same time).

Edited July 24, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[Camera One]

Charming would probably realize his father deserved to die anyway, so no biggie.

[Curio]

17 hours ago, Kktjones said:

Okay - this is total and complete speculation, but based on this interview, I predict we will learn that Hook has something to do with the death of Charming's father.

Oh god, they're going to make Hook the one who convinced Charming's father to get really drunk that final night, aren't they? Charming will catch Hook really drunk one night in Storybrooke, open up about how his father died, and Hook will make the connection that he knew the man who fell in the ravine—AKA Charming's father. And Hook's secret they're alluding to is that he's the one who nudged a few shots over his way and witnessed him falling into the ravine. (I can't see them going so far as making Hook deliberately kill him or push him in, so I'd imagine it would be the two of them drunkenly wandering home, and Hook not being able to stop Charming's father from getting too close to the ledge, but he'd still feel guilty about it.) So not only would Hook be kind of responsible for Charming growing up without a father, he's also responsible for making Liam 2.0 fatherless, and (according to Rumple) the reason Bae grew up without a mother. If they actually go this route, no wonder Hook would be terrified of getting too fatherly with Henry. Maybe there was a reason they showed the flashback of Killian getting really drunk on Silver's ship because they were setting it up for this Season 6 plot? 

(And then Belle and Hook can have a support group about accidentally letting people fall to their deaths.)

Edited July 24, 2016 by Curio

[Kktjones]

2 hours ago, Curio said:

Oh god, they're going to make Hook the one who convinced Charming's father to get really drunk that final night, aren't they?

This is pretty much the exact scenario I was picturing as well. Though I think he might even be more involved/at fault. I know in the end it will be about he and Emma/Charming working through the secret and getting past it, but I'm kind of over these flashbacks that just keep piling on with the evil acts...

[Curio]

33 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

Though I think he might even be more involved/at fault.

This is what scares me. These are the writers who think, "By showing a character acting absolutely awful in the past and comparing it to the better person they are in the present, it shows how far they've come! Look at that redemption!" NO. It just ruins their characterization, makes their redemption arc feel undeserved, and puts a bad taste in my mouth as the viewer.

But yes, I could also easily see the writers going down the route where Charming only thinks his father caved on the fourteenth day when he went into the tavern. However, in reality, his father was sober the entire time, ran into a drunken Killian, and they somehow got into a situation where Charming's father tried to help save Killian, but ended up at the bottom of a ravine because of it. So at the end of the episode, Charming's all, "Well, it sucks that you had a hand in my father's death, but at least I know he was trying to become a better father for me and that he didn't cave into his alcoholism after all. And he saved your life, so that's cool I guess because you're my daughter's True Love." They hug, and then the plot is never mentioned again.

It makes me angry, but I wouldn't even be surprised with TS;TW.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Curio

[Camera One]

The scary thing is I can already picture that episode playing in my mind!

[KingOfHearts]

If Hook had a cursed personality, what would his name be? I struggle to find one satisfying that isn't creepy or too on-the-nose. 

Edited July 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

I figured they might have gone with a real life pirate's name, like John Rackam or Francis Drake.

[Rumsy4]

James. For James Hook.

[KingOfHearts]

10 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

James. For James Hook.

I thought about, but I thought it could be confused with Prince James or David's alias.

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe they would have come up with another name for the twin had they had Hook from season 1, especially if he was going to be a regular. He probably would've gotten the name "priority".

[kitticup]

Someone on TWOP, suggested Cody Fishe.  I thought it was funny.

[Rumsy4]

I was thinking back on a debate we had a while back on making Killian Irish/English in fanfic. I know Colin uses an English accent for his character, but I think it makes sense to have Killian be Irish in modern AUs. For one--Colin has the typical Irish facial features, and modern AUs tend to draw on Colin's persona and background more than EF AUs. It's not like the Jones Brothers are from our world in the Show. They're from one of the many kingdoms in the EF. I'm not saying there's nobody with Irish background settled in England, but it seems to make it easier to have Killian be Irish in fics. 

[RadioGirl27]

I don't have a problem with Killian being Irish or English in fic, being born in one country or another doesn't change him. But the other day there was an interesting debate on Tumblr about him having two hands in fanfiction, especially in modern AUs, with valid arguments in both camps. I prefer it when he doesn't have the hand, because I tend to prefer the stories (even modern AUs) that are close to canon. Being abandoned by his father, loosing his brother, Milah and his hand is what made Killian who he is, the same way that being an orphan, Neal's betrayal and giving Henry in adoption are the things that made Emma who she is. I mean, I have read some great stories where Liam is alive, or Killian has two hands or Emma grew up with her family, but my favourites are usually those that keep all (or at least the majority) of the elements that made me fall in love with the characters.

[Shanna Marie]

I don't think it matters all that much in fanfic or in AU what accent Hook has. I don't write fanfic because I don't have time for non-profit writing, and even in my mental speculation I don't really do AU other than playing with ideas of how things might have gone if some plot elements were fixed, but in my ponderings about Hook having a cursed personality, he usually has an Irish accent. Part of that's because I love Colin's real accent and part because I've always loved it when actors who don't get to use their real accents in a show are given some excuse to do so, whether in AU, an undercover operation, a dream, etc.

On the hand issue, which has come up in a few other threads, I'd have been okay before "The Apprentice" if he'd stayed with the hook forever. They'd have had to address the hand in the jar, but that would have been easy enough -- have Belle make Rumple offer to return it and Hook reject it because this is who he is now and he likes the hook, have the hand not be viable outside the jar, have replacing it not be possible because the hand didn't go to Neverland and therefore has aged differently than Hook so they're no longer compatible, or have Rumple use the hand for a spell, so it no longer exists.

But so many things have happened that make it seem more contrived that he still has the hook than if he got the hand back:

1. We saw that it is possible for the hand to be replaced
2. The reason Hook asked for the hand back hasn't changed and, if anything, has grown stronger -- it's awkward embracing Emma, he can't hold her with both hands, he can't touch her hand while holding something else. And what about handling a baby, should that come about?
3. We still don't know if Rumple just psyched him out, if the hand really was "evil," or if Rumple put a whammy on it.
4. The reason for the psych-out was so bogus, since Hook was at his worst with the hook, not with the hand. He had the hand when he managed to turn his life around and become a naval officer, when he was probably at the best he's ever been, and he had the hand when he was happy and in love. It's super-bogus if we're really meant to believe that the hand was an evil influence. It's also hard to believe that he believed it.
5. If the hand wasn't whammied, it's weird that a right-handed person who hasn't had a left hand in more than a century was suddenly instinctively using his left hand to hit people.
6. There are multiple people who have the power to replace the hand now. We saw Zelena cut off and repair her own hand. Emma has done all kinds of healing with the wave of a hand, and Hook trusts her. He's not dependent on Rumple to repair the hand.
7. Hook was the Dark One and capable of replacing his own hand and shouldn't have worried at that point whether or not the hand was a bad influence, and yet he didn't return it while he was in Rumple's shop and talking about getting payback for the hand.
8. As the Dark One, Hook healed Rumple's disability but not his own
9. Hook's Underworld incarnation, which was supposedly an embodiment of his soul, somehow was missing a hand and had a hook that had all the properties of the real hook, which was still up in Storybrooke
10. Zeus returned Hook to life, either giving his Underworld body that was the embodiment of his soul corporeal life or healing the unhealable mortal wounds caused by Excalibur but without healing the hand

[Curio]

Can we talk about the emotional rollercoaster Hook has been on the past few episodes?

In the last 24 hours or so, Hook...

• Learned Emma was his True Love
• Decided to let go of Emma forever
• Ran into the man who killed him, then had to work with him as a team
• Met an Olympian God
• Returned from the dead
• Reunited with his True Love
• Found out one of his friends died
• Didn't get much more than a hug from David after returning from the dead, no one else really seemed to care much
• Was ditched by his girlfriend who couldn't even be excited about his resurrection since she felt guilty, again, because of Regina
• Traveled to another world
• Spent time in a cage and nearly got choked to death
• Reunited with his girlfriend
• Couldn't even drive back in the same car with his True Love he just got reunited with
• Finally heard "I love you" from Emma in a moment of calm
• Almost had sex
• Got cockblocked by a dirigible
• Was lied to by his girlfriend and knows it
• Spent more time being separated from Emma, by her choosing, even though they've barely spent 5 minutes alone together since his return from death

I'd love to dig into Hook's psyche right now, but it seems like the writers only like to explore his head space whenever he's a villain (Dark Hook) or it's his annual centric episode. 

[Shanna Marie]

Hook really should have a raging case of PTSD right now when you factor in the stuff that went before the last 24 or so hours. He now has memories of being killed three times -- the AU, when he was all but dead in Camelot (even if he didn't die all the way, he definitely passed out believing he was dying), and again when Emma ran him through with Excalibur. All three were painful, traumatic deaths. He's said his farewells to Emma, believing it was for the last time, three times -- dying in Camelot, sacrificing himself to end the Dark One, staying behind in the Underworld. Then there was the imprisonment and torture. Not to mention the things he did as Dark One that you know have to haunt his conscience, since he's all about the guilt. He may have decided to forgive himself enough to feel worthy of life, but that doesn't mean he forgot it all. Even though coming back to life was a pleasant surprise, it had to be a shock to the system when he'd made the decision to move on for good and thought he was going to the afterlife, only to find himself in Storybrooke. Then you throw in all the stuff that happened right after that. It's a miracle he's still functional.

I also find it highly unlikely that he would have let Emma go off on her own with Regina after Henry instead of insisting on being glued to her side (and vice versa -- would she really have left him behind after what they went through?). And even if there were Reasons for that, would they have left each other's sides once they were reunited after they thought he might be trapped in another world? He'd have planted himself in the front passenger seat of that Bug and let everyone else figure out who rode where for the drive home, if Emma hadn't already insisted he be with her.

But instead, they didn't even mention what had just happened. If you missed last season, you'd never have known that he died.

[Curio]

It was asked at Comic-Con whether or not Hook would experience any lingering symptoms after coming back from the dead, and A&E were like, "Nope! He's totally fine. Nothing to explore there." What?? Why put a character through all that drama and pain only to completely drop it the next season? This isn't the first time Hook went through something major only to be forgotten about. Hook outruns a curse, finds a magic bean, trades his ship/home, and travels to NYC to find Emma? All summed up in 10 seconds. Hook had his heart stolen for multiple episodes, got his hand back, lost his hand, and nearly died? Girlfriend ditches him for shots with Regina and no one ever discusses what happened with the heart. Season 5 is probably the only time the writers will ever give Hook a somewhat prominent focus, and even then, they decided to add weird things like the Brennan situation, the cliche heel face turn, and writing a Liam centric that was worse than most fan fics. There's so much potential with Hook's character that the writers haven't even tapped into yet, it's so frustrating. 

[RadioGirl27]

2 hours ago, Curio said:

I'd love to dig into Hook's psyche right now, but it seems like the writers only like to explore his head space whenever he's a villain (Dark Hook) or it's his annual centric episode. 

This is what fan fiction is for. The writers don't care about Hook as an individual. That's why all this things get forgoten and/or ignored.

[Curio]

I'm not the biggest fan fiction reader because I'm the kind of person who only accepts whatever is shown on screen to be canon, but this is the one show where I might have to break that rule. There's too much good stuff there to explore that's being ignored.

[daxx]

@Curio I was that way with FF, I started out with just canon divergent or canon compliant. I of course branched out dramatically since. :) there is a lot to explore in Hook's personality and history that is never touched on in the show.

[Shanna Marie]

On 9/28/2016 at 11:11 AM, Curio said:

It was asked at Comic-Con whether or not Hook would experience any lingering symptoms after coming back from the dead, and A&E were like, "Nope! He's totally fine. Nothing to explore there."

Attempting to be charitable, maybe they're talking about physical symptoms and they just mean that the Excalibur wounds aren't going to suddenly reappear and are totally healed? But with these writers ... yeah, he'll not show any signs of having been through anything, whether it's PTSD from the trauma (you'd think that remembering being killed would leave psychic scars) or a changed worldview after getting a second chance at life or even a changed attitude from knowing what happens in the afterlife based on whether someone has unfinished business.

[InsertWordHere]

I realize I was probably alone in worrying about this, but I'm glad we have confirmation that Hook didn't get a Modern Living 101 download when he cast the (completely unneeded) Dark Curse. I like how Hook is clueless to pop culture references but still able to successfully navigate life in the modern world.

On another not, while that conversation with Belle was perfect and I wouldn't change a single thing about it, if the scene had been longer, it would have been the perfect time to have Hook mention how he's dealing with being back from the dead. They also could have had Belle, you know, react to him being back from the dead. 

[andromeda331]

55 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

I realize I was probably alone in worrying about this, but I'm glad we have confirmation that Hook didn't get a Modern Living 101 download when he cast the (completely unneeded) Dark Curse. I like how Hook is clueless to pop culture references but still able to successfully navigate life in the modern world.

On another not, while that conversation with Belle was perfect and I wouldn't change a single thing about it, if the scene had been longer, it would have been the perfect time to have Hook mention how he's dealing with being back from the dead. They also could have had Belle, you know, react to him being back from the dead. 

Me too. I especially liked Hook remembered parts that Belle wouldn't remember. He didn't have to bring that up and yet he did. It was a real nice scene. 

[Dianthus]

Given that David was still 'David' under the curse, I don't see why Killian couldn't still be Killian (even Jones, or maybe Smith?). Plus, he already has an alternate persona with Hook. Early on I was mostly reading fanfics that stayed close to canon, but I've read a number of good AUs since. Hell, I even wrote a story called Give the Boy a Hand that was slightly AU.

As for what he might do, and living in a small coastal town myself, I can say we've got a fishing fleet, a Coast Guard station, lots of tourist-y shops/restaurants/inns, a marina, kayak rentals, an old power plant, a small natural history museum, and a state park with a golf course all close to the waterfront. We've got a lot of local artists too.

[InsertWordHere]

When Hook whipped that shell phone out from under his shirt, it made me wonder just how many previously unmentioned necklaces this guy is lugging around. No wonder he couldn't dodge Excalibur in Camelot, he's probably carrying 20 extra pounds of weight on his chest! Or maybe more like 19.8 since he had just given the ring to Emma. 

I'd love it if it became a sort of running gag with Hook just pulling items out of his shirt to save the day. 

[Rumsy4]

Heh. Also, who needs a cell phone when you have shell-phone?! ;-)

[Kktjones]

I know it's more than a week away, but wondering if anyone has thoughts about the upcoming Hook-centric episode (6x06)? Since 3B, his centrics have pretty much followed a pattern:

In the past:

• He meets someone and his first impulse is to help that person (Ariel, Ursula, his father)
• Something happens and he ends up screwing the person over usually in the name of revenge against Rumple

In the present:

• He tries to atone for his past sins
• There's a lot of self-loathing and brooding

I'm guessing this one will play out exactly the same, 

Spoiler

(with Captain Nemo)

but it would be really nice to see something different. I always get excited for a Hook-centric, but I'm not sure why. They always use it to make him look even worse in the past and he's usually isolated from the rest of the cast in both the past and present. 

Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out there as a topic since conversation seems to be slow around here...

Edited October 19, 2016 by Kktjones

[Katherine]

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Kktjones said:

I know it's more than a week away, but wondering if anyone has thoughts about the upcoming Hook-centric episode (6x06)? Since 3B, his centrics have pretty much followed a pattern:

In the past:

• He meets someone and his first impulse is to help that person (Ariel, Ursula, his father)
• Something happens and he ends up screwing the person over usually in the name of revenge against Rumple

In the present:

• He tries to atone for his past sins
• There's a lot of self-loathing and brooding

I'm guessing this one will play out exactly the same, 

  Reveal hidden contents

(with Captain Nemo)

but it would be really nice to see something different. I always get excited for a Hook-centric, but I'm not sure why. They always use it to make him look even worse in the past and he's usually isolated from the rest of the cast in both the past and present. 

Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out there as a topic since conversation seems to be slow around here...

I would love to see something different but it seems like the writers believe this pattern works, so chances are they'll stick to it. On the other hand, maybe this will be the episode when other characters (besides Emma) finally profess their faith in Hook? Maybe the bad thing will be revealed, the self-loathing will set in, but then we'll get everyone rallying around him and embracing him as part of the family? It's not that I believe all of his sins should be forgiven and forgotten, but it sure would be nice to see something different, and meaningful interactions with Emma's family would definitely be different. Dare to dream, I guess...

Edited October 29, 2016 by Katherine

[OnceUponAJen]

Killian's been around for a while,  but Emma has never had to live with him before.  I wonder what interesting things she'll find out about Captain Hook? And can we please get him a black robe to wear around the house in the morning?  Black pyjamas? Something?  Honestly,  I'd love to see Emma go through his closet.  LOL!

[Curio]

I need a scene where Hook and Emma put on makeup together in the bathroom as part of their daily morning routine.

I would just like to thank the writers of the last episode for putting Hook in an old school diving suit. Can we please get more Hook adventures in the Nautilus? That set was badass, and I love the juxtaposition of a pirate interacting with a submarine. Maybe Hook and Nemo can run into Sinbad if the show ever decides to actually go to Agrabah.

[OnceUponAJen]

4 hours ago, Curio said:

I need a scene where Hook and Emma put on makeup together in the bathroom as part of their daily morning routine.

I can see this.

EMMA (looks at Killian putting on kohl): "Umm, honey?  That's mine."

[InsertWordHere]

21 hours ago, OnceUponAJen said:

I wonder what interesting things she'll find out about Captain Hook?

His breakfast choices are not the best but at least she won't get scurvy. 

[KAOS Agent]

I laughed at the scurvy comment because both Emma and Henry were drinking orange juice. I think they had the scurvy issue well covered even if the main part of the breakfast was Pop-Tarts. I do wonder if Hook went grocery shopping and bought a bunch of mackerel for breakfast.

[Curio]

Grapefruit and mackerel actually sounds like a delicious breakfast, but I'm also the type of person who prefers salmon, cream cheese, orange slices, dill and avocado on my morning bagel.

[OnceUponAJen]

On 11/02/2016 at 6:50 PM, Curio said:

Grapefruit and mackerel actually sounds like a delicious breakfast, but I'm also the type of person who prefers salmon, cream cheese, orange slices, dill and avocado on my morning bagel.

I love lox and bagels! And capers. And cream cheese.  I don't think I've ever had mackerel.

[Curio]

I guess we finally have a canon reason why Hook drinks rum so much...it's for his health.

[Shanna Marie]

Something from a random 3 a.m. train of thought ...

We've wondered how, exactly, Hook finally escaped Pan for good, when he left Neverland and was permanently in the Enchanted Forest world, why he didn't take Bae with him (did he offer and Bae declined?), etc. But did he actually ever escape for good?

He went to Neverland by choice, knowing what was there. It was his plan to stay there to buy time until he came up with a way to defeat Rumple. He wouldn't have wanted to escape. Pan didn't need to do anything to force him to return from the cake runs. He seems to have used the cake runs to try to track down more info on the Dark One or to try to find some way of defeating him, and when he didn't, he willingly went back to Neverland to bide his time some more. What if when he made what turned out to be the final cake run, that was when he learned about the prisoner who knew the Dark One, then he got caught by Regina, sent to Wonderland, teamed up with Cora, and learned about the curse? Finally, he had an actual plan, so he stayed rather than returning to Neverland. When we saw him during the time travel, he may have been on a cake run rather than back for good (I don't think there was any indication that he wouldn't be going back to Neverland then). When he left on that final run, he didn't know it would be for good, so Pan didn't "let" him go. He was always a bit cagey about how he got away, which would fit with the fact that he didn't have any real secret. It was, in a way, a deal he made with Pan, that he would be allowed to run errands. It just wasn't meant to be permanent, and therefore that way of getting out would have done them no good when they went to save Henry. And if he didn't know when he left that it would be the final run, he wouldn't have had a reason to invite Bae to come. It's possible that there was an open invitation and that he stopped by the cave before each run to ask if Bae wanted to go or to offer to bring him something, but this run would have been no different if he didn't know he'd get the key info this time. He just didn't go back in between finding out about the curse and the casting of the curse, probably in part because of that focus on revenge so that he wasn't going to take any chances of missing it and in part because he knew Bae would probably turn him down anyway, since he knew Bae didn't want to go anywhere near his father.

This does rather simplify things if there was no escape from Neverland, no time that he planned to leave for good, and it helps his timeline if he wasn't permanently in the Enchanted Forest from before Snow and Charming met, if he was still going back and forth during however many years that was.

[KingOfHearts]

Ok guys, help me out here - why are these so many people that think Hook is a rapist? Have we ever actually seen him rape anyone?

Edited November 29, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[daxx]

Shipping bias combined with his joke in Snow Drifts about getting someone drunk being his "tactic".

All his actual canon actions indicate the exact opposite in that he's very good about consent.

Not to mention I doubt he needs to get anyone drunk in order to find a willing partner.

[Kktjones]

There are a few reasons people think Hook is a rapist - one being that he's a pirate and that's what pirates do. Also, back in Season 2 he made many sexual innuendos. But I think the main reason is a line from the Season 3 finale when Emma is in the tavern keeping the "past" Hook occupied (while the present day Hook went to talk to Snow on his ship). Emma was plying him with rum and he said "If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were trying to get me drunk, which is usually my tactic."

Within the SQ fandom (which makes up the majority of the "many people that think Hook is a rapist") this line has now turned into the universally agreed upon fact that Captain Hook used to get women drunk to sleep with them. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like what the line above implies, but the fact is that Emma was getting him drunk to distract him, so he could very well have meant that he uses alcohol as a way to distract or get information. In the very same scene he asks Emma if she wants to go back to his ship or not, so he doesn't seem to be all about coercion (he also asks her on the ship if she's having second thoughts), which indicates to me that he's not interested in taking someone against their will.

A few VERY vocal and nasty fans on Twitter refer to him as Captain Rapist or the dirty pirate rapist and call all CS fans rape apologists. It's especially rich considering their favorite character is Regina (an actual rapist in canon).

ETA: Daxx beat me to it with a much more concise answer!

Edited November 29, 2016 by Kktjones

[Rumsy4]

34 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

Don't get me wrong, I don't like what the line above implies, but the fact is that Emma was getting him drunk to distract him, so he could very well have meant that he uses alcohol as a way to distract or get information

Pretty sure that's what he meant, especially considering Captain Silver got him drunk and induced him to gamble his money away as a kid.

[Curio]

6 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Ok guys, help me out here - why are these so many people that think Hook is a rapist? Have we ever actually seen him rape anyone?

No. The only answer is no. 

Even the line about alcohol in Season 3 is a total overreaction by fans. Like what has already been said, I interpreted that line as Hook using alcohol to gain an advantage over other pirates and didn't even think of the other interpretation until I saw people discussing it online. Captain Silver getting young Killian drunk all but confirms this. But even if we interpret that line differently, if Hook uses alcohol to try and get people drunk...that's kind of the point of alcohol? When you're having drinks with your friends at a pub and watching a sporting event and your team loses, you don't go, "Oh well, let's drink some water and rationally think about this loss." No, you go, "Damn it, this sucks. Next round is on me!" If you've ever done that, guess what? You're using Hook's tactic to get people drunk. If you've ever bought your friends a round of shots or brought wine to a party, you can't clutch your pearls when one of your friends get drunk. I try to give the benefit of the doubt to some of these fans though, and maybe most are teenagers or are too inexperienced to understand drinking and socializing culture. But I have a feeling it's more about psychological projection and trying to deflect any conversation about Regina's treatment of Graham over to Hook instead.

[RadioGirl27]

The funny (sad) thing about this is that 95% of people saying this are fans if either Regina or Neal, both of whom are rapists in canon. 

[KingOfHearts]

It all sounds pretty sexist to me, like Hook is an easier target because he's a man and fits the playboy-pirate archetype. 

[PixiePaws1]

I have never once considered Hook was a rapist at any point in his piratical career for one reason above all others....man IS vanity personified. I  don't think he's too interested in rape because that would mean his looks and his charm would have failed him. He's always gotten what he wants from women as freely given. He's likely had a few he had to work a little harder for...he's probably seen them as the challenge for his charm.

Sadly i doubt that he did much to discourage his pirate crews from rape.....he was a true pirate after all.

[Shanna Marie]

6 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

I have never once considered Hook was a rapist at any point in his piratical career for one reason above all others....man IS vanity personified. I  don't think he's too interested in rape because that would mean his looks and his charm would have failed him. He's always gotten what he wants from women as freely given. He's likely had a few he had to work a little harder for...he's probably seen them as the challenge for his charm.

Even beyond that, he seems to go for strong women and likes for them to take the lead. He seems to enjoy having to work to woo a woman, while still leaving the ball in her court.

The thing that's interesting about his line about getting the person drunk being his tactic is that at the time he was having that done to him, and he continued going along with it. You could read it as his way of letting Emma know he knew what she was doing, and he was cool about it. She was trying to remove his ability to consent, he noticed, and essentially gave his consent. And then even though he was incredibly drunk at the time, he kept checking for her consent at each step of the way. You could practically use the whole sequence of them leaving the bar and coming to the Jolly Roger as an example in teaching a seminar on how consent works and how it doesn't have to be non-sexy to keep making sure your partner is okay with the way things are going.

[KingOfHearts]

I won't ever understand why so many people put Hook in the same boat as Regina, Zelena and Rumple as far as who isn't trustworthy as a redeemed villain. If someone did bad things in the past, has worked to redeem themselves, and hasn't done any of it since, (especially in a TV show) it's unlikely they'll just snap. There are many reasons why Hook's reformation has been the most legitimate, which I don't think I need explain here. Hook has said nothing like, "I hate doing good", or "I want to murder this person" or "why can't I have my happy ending". He's the only "villain", in my opinion, who genuinely hates the person he used to be. He has no reason to go back to that.

Even though I've never been a huge fan of his character, (I haven't found him really entertaining since 3A), his redemption was always the best on the show. Not perfect, but better relative to the others. He has had the most consistent progression and character development. He hasn't flip-flopped around depending on the plot's needs. His character has writing problems like the others, but to me, his arc has been his strong point.

Edited December 1, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

7 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Even though I've never been a huge fan of his character, (I haven't found him really entertaining since 3A), his redemption was always the best on the show.

It's nice to hear this from someone who is not particularly a fan of Hook. heh

Adam and Eddy apparently wanted to bring on Captain Hook and Peter Pan from the start. That, and the fact that he is the supposed heroine's love interest, plus his general popularity, have ensured that he gets better writing than many other main characters (including Snowing). He's had his WTF regression moments too (Dark Hook teaming up with Nimue, for instance), but for the most part, his redemption arc has been handled the best among the villains (including Cora and Ingrid, IMO).

I just wish the writers would bring back some of the fun and lightness of the character. There's just too much angst all around. 

[KAOS Agent]

Hook's character is saved from the massive flip-flopping of good/evil by the writers because he's not essential to the story like Regina/Rumpel. If Hook goes completely off the chain on his own, Emma would dump him and that would be that. In order to remain relevant to the story and connected to the mains outside of Rumpel, Hook generally needs to stick to his reformed ways with little backsliding. 

The writers found a way around this in S5 with the forced Dark One storyline, but that involved a Hook who was compromised by something he knew he couldn't fight and begged Emma not to do. Even then, he still fought back and ultimately sacrificed to clean up his mess. If Present!Hook goes off and starts attacking Belle again or steals Baby Gideon on his own, there would be no use for him once they'd defeated him.