S10.E15: The Things They Carried

[rue721]

It's too presumptuous of Cole to be using the nicknames.

 

Presumptuous. Yes, that's the perfect word. I found it too presumptuous. But I found a lot of how Cole was behaving (leaning on the Impala, etc) to be disrespectful, and it rubbed me the wrong way. TAW is honestly rubbing me the wrong way, too, which is probably not helping when it comes to feeling more endeared to the character, lol.

 

The funny thing is, I bet that there were people on set who knew how Cole would come across, but they didn't feel they had authority over TAW or his performance, so they kept their mouths shut out of politeness/respect. Certainly, Jared Padalecki had to have had an inkling that TAW's improvisations, especially Cole calling Sam "Sammy" and "Sammy Boy," were unlikely to go over well -- not with Sam as a character, and not with the audience. But I bet that JP was way too much of a gentleman to tell TAW flat out how to do his job, because that would have been too presumptuous.

 

Having a hard time getting on board with the nickname controversy, although TAW's long explanation is a little strange.  When I heard it, I thought, "Cole's trying to establish himself as an equal or superior to the boys, so he's belittling them with nicknames."  It made sense with his character, so I didn't have a problem with it.

 

My issue isn't that it's out of character for Cole to be disrespectful and belittling and to think he's hot shit. That might be totally in character for Cole! But that's also why I dislike Cole. (Well, among other reasons).

 

I did find it weird that none of the other characters gave him side-eye for being a macho douchebag, but now that it turns out TAW was improvising, that makes more sense.

 

So, yeah, I wouldn't have minded Demon Dean ripping his throat out a little bit. That fight was the only time I found Demon Dean even remotely scary. So, a bit more of that would have been much appreciated.

 

That not-really-a-fight between Demon!Dean and Cole was a highlight of the season, imo. I liked that whole episode pretty well -- I think it's the only one from S10 that I've rewatched. Dean was legitimately frightening in parts of it. That bar scene between him and Sam was great. That scene at the end when he's cuffed in the car and glowering at Sam as Sam turns over the First Blade (to Crowley), and then when he cryptically/chillingly warns Sam that he wasn't merciful to Cole and that he won't be merciful to Sam, were great, too (imo). But I prefer it when Dean burns cold, just in general, and it made sense to me that as a demon, he'd go from his characteristic "burning cold" to seeming downright chilling.

 

Man, I still want to find out what Dean's personality would be like as a demon, I don't feel like we got much of a taste of it. I don't really care about seeing him run amok, he's always killing things anyway, so what's really even the difference? And he actually doesn't even seem like a "run amok" type to me, this is also the man who went completely numb when he was in close proximity to Famine of all people, though YMMV. But I still want to find out how his personality would be different, with the humanity in it all poisoned. @catrox14, #lurking :P

[FlickChick]

 

I'm just thankful they didn't name his character Frank.  Frank, Sammy, and Dean-O? Oy!

No kidding! I'm surprised this writer didn't name him "Frank" just to see if we'd get the reference. Of course they could have had a small rodent running along the bottom of the screen. ;)

[catrox14]

Having a hard time getting on board with the nickname controversy, although TAW's long explanation is a little strange.  When I heard it, I thought, "Cole's trying to establish himself as an equal or superior to the boys, so he's belittling them with nicknames."  It made sense with his character, so I didn't have a problem with it.  I suspect the real reason people have a problem with it is the obvious way this episode pandered to a character no one cares about, in what felt like a transparent effort to make a spinoff show about him, while the Winchesters are mostly pawns in an episode that's all about Cole.

 

So if Azazel calls him  "Sammy Boy!", it's awesome, cause Azazel's a scary badass.  And if Meg says, "Dean-O", it's cool, cuz Meg is a firecracker who'll take on anyone in Heaven or Hell, and she's earned some diminutive name-calling.  But when Cole does it, it's like, "Fuck you, Cole! We don't give a shit about you!" and everyone gets mad about it. Anyway, I don't think it's the nicknames in-and-of-themselves that bother most people but the way Cole has been written into the show.

 

I'm just thankful they didn't name his character Frank.  Frank, Sammy, and Dean-O? Oy!

It's an entitlement that Cole hasn't earned.

[SueB]

I'm just thankful they didn't name his character Frank.  Frank, Sammy, and Dean-O? Oy!

Oh how I wish they had!

[gazebo]

I liked this episode.  Sure, I miss watching the story arc of Dean maybe turning evil and killing Sam, but I still thought this was pretty good.  This is what got me hooked on SN the first place.  I like the story of two brothers going out there and hunting evil things and saving people.  This episode to me is almost classic season 1, except the boys are much older and more jaded. 

 

I also didn't care for Cole giviing nicknames to Dean and Sam.  "Sammy Boy" really grated on my nerves.  Sam shoulda just told Cole to quit that.  I thought "Dean-O" was kind of cute, but still way too familiar.  I mean, Cole has not yet earned the real title of "good friend" to Sam and Dean and he shouldn't be calling these guys these silly nicknames. 

 

The evil Supernatural creature was just incredibly disgusting!  I'm glad I wasn't eating anything when I was watching this episode.  The part where Dean was electrocuting Cole made me wince in almost sympathy.  Poor Kit!  I knew he was a goner!  I felt so sorry for Kit's wife.

 

When I watched this episode, I didn't know whether Cole was going to come back to the Winchesters' lives as friend or foe.  Now I think Cole might end up being a Hunter one day.  His life has been touched by the supernatural and there is no way he can ever return to normal.

 

I give this episode a solid "C+".  I can't wait until the regular storylines of Dean, Sam, Castiel and Crowley continue next week!

[cassandle]

ETA: I may've been thinking of how Demian used to call Dean "Dashing El Deano" in his recaps. Either way, I don't imagine Dean really caring one way or the other.

 

My first thought when he called him Deano was, "Hey!  You've never read the recaps--you can't call him that!"  I, on the other hand, refer to him as Dashing El Deano frequently when I'm talking to the TV (like a crazy person) because I have read the recaps :)

 

"Believe me when I say that if Cole wanted to truly hurt Sam he would have and he also would have tortured him to the point where Sam or any human being for that matter would have broken down and given the information. Well, everyone except Jack Bauer. Cole chose the most humane way to get to Dean through Sam and that is just fantastic writing by the creators of the show."

Um, no. He was phone call away from taking a hammer to Sams knee. He actually used Sams bad shoulder against him and he called him Sammy during the torture. So sorry Travis, unless Cole was possessed by a demon this was human being torturing sam. Shit Gordon didn't even do to Dean what Cole did to Sam. And if all Cole wanted to do was find Dean he could have just kept following him without all the torture.

 

Yes!  Not only was Gordon bonkers to begin with, Dean beat the crap out of him and left him tied him to a chair for who knows how many days.  By all rights Gordon should have been more brutal to Dean.  But Sam had nothing to do with Cole until Cole forced the situation.  So dumb.   If Cole ever does come back (please, no!) hopefully Dean's a demon again and finishes the job.

[catrox14]

My first thought when he called him Deano was, "Hey!  You've never read the recaps--you can't call him that!"  I, on the other hand, refer to him as Dashing El Deano frequently when I'm talking to the TV (like a crazy person) because I have read the recaps :)

 

 

Yes!  Not only was Gordon bonkers to begin with, Dean beat the crap out of him and left him tied him to a chair for who knows how many days.  By all rights Gordon should have been more brutal to Dean.  But Sam had nothing to do with Cole until Cole forced the situation.  So dumb.   If Cole ever does come back (please, no!) hopefully Dean's a demon again and finishes the job.

I hope demon! Dean comes back specifically to kill Cole just for him calling Sam "sammy".

[cassandle]

Or, turn Cole into a monster (like Gordon) so non-Demon!Dean can justifiably kill him.  Or so Sam can kill him.  That should be the punishment Sam dishes out for any non-family members calling him Sammy--bring back that razor-wire decapitation.  I wouldn't care too much about how he dies, so long as it's violent and he stays dead.  I really don't think that's too much to ask.

[Demented Daisy]

I wonder if real life bled through to the character.  In other words, the actor has gotten pretty chummy with Jared and Jensen and subsequently has lost sight of how well the characters know each other.  And no one else gave it much thought.

 

No judgement, just speculation.  ;-)

[DittyDotDot]

Yeah, that's my take on it too. I think Travis Aaron Wade is really excited to be part of the show--seems to really like working on it anyway--I think he probably just thought it would be a fun thing to do and didn't realize there was a history there.  I think fandom forgets not every actor who comes on the show watches the show themselves, that's why TPTB need to be paying more attention to the details.

 

However, I actually think the nicknames fit Cole's character. To me, the character is cocky and full of himself. Seems perfectly reasonable to me the character of Cole would take liberties and all. But, then again, I still don't even remember him using the nicknames, so I might not have the right angle on it.

[SueB]

As a military person I'll say it's in character to make nicknames up for everything. We also acronym up our acronyms.

[rue721]

Sure, it's in character for Cole to act like an arrogant, try-hard dumbass. That's exactly the problem.

[DittyDotDot]

This episode got me thinking about the book it's named after and inspired me to start re-reading it last night since I could only remember bits and pieces and impressions. For those who don't know, The Things They Carried is a Pulitzer Prize winning book by Tim O'Brien. It's a collection of semi-autobiographical short stories about American soldiers in Vietnam. I initially read the book over 20 years ago for a college class, but can't for the life of me remember what class that is now. The first story in the book surrounds a first lieutenant who, due to being distracted by his love of a woman who didn't love him, feels guilty for the death of a member of his platoon and carries that with him long after the war is over. It's full of beautifully written long paragraphs of run-on sentences detailing many of the things soldiers physically and mentally carry. A couple food-for-thought quotes...

 

He felt shame. He hated himself. He had loved Martha more than his men, and as a consequence Lavender was now dead, and this was something he would have to carry like a stone in his stomach for the rest of the war. 

 

This got me thinking of Sam's side of things in this episode. I know it's supposed to be a parallel to Sam not being able to save Dean despite his trying with all his might. I guess I have a hard time connecting with that idea since I know Sam's not going to give up and we all know Dean will be saved somehow, we just don't know how or when or by who. Also, I have a hard time connecting to Sam feeling especially guilty over Kit when it's not the first time they've failed to save someone and Kit was not one of Sam's men. Why is Kit more worthy of Sam's guilt than any of the other randoms they've failed to protect?

 

So it got me to thinking, in the story from the book, as a result of losing a soldier under his watch, the lieutenant burned his pictures and letters from Martha and became focused on being the best lieutenant and leader of men he could be. It seems like this could've been a nice tie-in for Sam, he could've actually had a reason to feel guilty over his failure to protect Kit if it was born out of him being distracted by the MoC problem.  Which would've paid off the conflict with Dean at the top of the episode over Sam's research and Dean wanting Sam to drop it and focus on the case at hand. As it is, Sam's side just doesn't do much for me in the end. Although, I do appreciate how Sam has been more in character and palatable as of late, so I guess I'll take it anyway.

 

They carried all the emotional baggage of men who might die. Grief, terror, love, longing--these were intangibles, but the intangibles had their own mass and specific gravity, they had tangible weight. They carried shameful memories. They carried the common secret of cowardice barely restrained, the instinct to run or freeze or hide, and in many respects this was the heaviest burden of all, for it could never be put down, it required perfect balance and perfect posture. They carried their reputations. They carried the soldier's greatest fear, which, was the fear of blushing. Men killed, and died, because they were embarrassed not to. It was what had brought them to the war in the first place, nothing positive, no dreams of glory or honor, just to avoid the blush of dishonor. They died so as not to die of embarrassment. They crawled into tunnels an walked point and advanced under fire. Each morning, despite the unknowns, they made their legs move. They endured. They kept humping. They did not submit to the obvious alternative, witch was simply to close the eyes and fall. So easy, really. Go limp and tumble to the ground and let the muscles unwind and not speak and budge until your buddies picked you up and lifted you into the chopper that would roar and dip its nose and carry you off to the world. A mere matter of falling, yet no one ever fell. It was not courage, exactly; the object was not valor. Rather, they were too frightened to be cowards.

 

I know it's a very long paragraph, but when I read this last night, all I could see was Dean--not only in this episode, but mostly for the series at large. To me, Dean keeps fighting and soldiers on mostly out of a fear of failing and a fear of doing nothing. So, Dean's side of things in this episode is actually what works for me and keeps the episode from being a total waste. If they hadn't felt compelled to gross everyone out instead of really delving into the meat of the story better, this episode really could've been a standout for me. As it is, I found it fine, but feel like it was a lot of wasted potential.

[supposebly]

 

Also, I have a hard time connecting to Sam feeling especially guilty over Kit when it's not the first time they've failed to save someone and Kit was not one of Sam's men. Why is Kit more worthy of Sam's guilt than any of the other randoms they've failed to protect?

I could kiss your whole post but that was one of the other things that stood out as completely WTF for me. How is this any different or worse than the many many times before?

One springs to mind in The Mentalists in season 7, when the friend of the medium they befriended got killed because they messed up and killed the wrong ghost. And the many many times in all those years when they got it wrong the first time. It's basically a staple of the show that they get it wrong the first time and there tends to be at least one more victim when they are already on the case.

 

Also, I really don't need another story where Sam is not able to save Dean. Just no. I'm getting season 3 flashbacks and the comparisons make this approach look really bad.

 

About the nicknames, I don't have problem with them per se. Ok, that's not true, I don't like them but if it's in character, that's fine. I don't have to like them or Cole. But the thing is, Sam and Dean should have had a reaction. They shouldn't have liked it either. Someone, dropped the ball.

[AwesomO4000]

DittyDotDot: Also, I have a hard time connecting to Sam feeling especially guilty over Kit when it's not the first time they've failed to save someone and Kit was not one of Sam's men. Why is Kit more worthy of Sam's guilt than any of the other randoms they've failed to protect?

 

I see what you are saying here, and it's a good question. I'm just fanwanking here, but I think maybe it's a bit more personal this time. It kind of reminds me of "Metamorphosis," * except that this time instead of Sam being worried that he's not going to be able to stop himself from becoming a monster, he's worried that Dean might not be able to stop himself from becoming a monster, and that Sam will have to kill him (which is in a way worse, since Sam was in a bad place in season 4, so sacrificing himself is one thing, but sacrificing Dean is a whole other kettle of fish). I think the fact that Sam had to literally shoot Kit in the head and he likely died in Sam's arms probably didn't help. Maybe it's one thing to not get there fast enough and a monster kills the person you're trying to save and another when you have to struggle with killing the person yourself while thinking maybe they could've been saved. And Sam's likely thinking that if he couldn't even save this guy, what's going to happen when the stakes are even higher and it's Dean who's on the line?

 

Sam had to kill the guy in "The Mentalists" also, but I don't think the parallels on that one were as big nor the situation as guilt-inducing, because here Kit didn't ask to be infected with the monster - he was actually trying to do a good thing and save prisoners of war - whereas the guy in "The Mentalists" was choosing to be a creep and kill people. (I know there was also the woman they couldn't save, but Sam didn't directly kill her and he wasn't there to witness it.)

 

So for me I think it was maybe the whole package - i.e. that Kit was a good guy who tried to save people (like Dean) and didn't ask to be infected and become a monster (like Dean) and that Sam had to literally shoot him in the head in front of his wife and afterwards maybe think "maybe if I'd just held him off a little longer, I wouldn't have had to kill him" - that added up to this one being a little bit different and more guilt-inducing than previous cases.

 

Otherwise I got nothing.

 

* And if I'm remembering the details of "Metamorphosis" correctly (it's been a while since I've seen that one), in both episodes Sam had to kill the husband in front of the wife.

[supposebly]

In Metamorphosis, the wife ran out of the house long before Sam set him on fire.

 

Thanks, AwesomO4000, you made me feel a bit better about, what I saw as forced angst on Sam's part.

 

However, I still don't want another story where Sam fails to save Dean. I really really don't.

[catrox14]

Can someone explain the idiocy of the worm going through the mouth?

I don't recall that it struck like a cobra. So why did everyone leave their mouth open and not turn away? I don't remember it holding the victims nose shut to force them to open their mouths. Hoyay subtext for Dean and Cole? And NONONO I do NOT ship them because I pretty much loathe Cole now.

Edited March 26, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

In Metamorphosis, the wife ran out of the house long before Sam set him on fire.

 

Thanks, AwesomO4000, you made me feel a bit better about, what I saw as forced angst on Sam's part.

 

However, I still don't want another story where Sam fails to save Dean. I really really don't.

 

Ah, thank you for remembering that about "Metamorphosis." That makes this one even harder than that one then, since here Sam had to kill Kit in front of his distraught wife.

 

I definitely agree with you on the last part though. We already had Sam failing to save Dean in season 3, failing to get him out of hell in season 4, and not being able to save him again in season 9. I don't want to see that again either.

[catrox14]

Ah, thank you for remembering that about "Metamorphosis." That makes this one even harder than that one then, since here Sam had to kill Kit in front of his distraught wife.

 

I definitely agree with you on the last part though. We already had Sam failing to save Dean in season 3, failing to get him out of hell in season 4, and not being able to save him again in season 9. I don't want to see that again either.

Will it be a failure if somehow Dean saves himself?

[supposebly]

It just feels like such a repetition. There, we have the speech about how Dean can't trust anyone to save him and now we might get that story again?

 

I would just like to have Sam save his big brother for once. And not after going completely mental like in Mystery Spot or almost completely mental like at the beginning of this season. It might help Dean with his trust issues and with the problem that he feel he's always responsible for each and everything, including his own salvation.

 

And well, it would be something different.

[AwesomO4000]

Will it be a failure if somehow Dean saves himself?

 

If Dean saves himself only after Sam somehow screws up epically, than yes, I'll consider it a fail for Sam. Mostly because Dean has been able to save Sam more than once, often at great cost to himself. I'm not sure why the show generally has to slant things only that way.

 

Edited to add: Or what supposebly said much more elegantly above.

Edited March 26, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[millennium]

 Oh!  And Cole's source who owed him a favor?  That favor would have cost him A: his career; and B: his freedom.

 

Sorry, I swore I wasn't going to rant about the military stuff.

 

Yeah, but ... this is a show where a couple scruffy guys with five o'clock shadow throw on suits, walk into police departments using rock and roll aliases and flashing fake credentials, and are never questioned, so ...

 I found Sam really irritating here. I'm also trying to understand why Dean didn't just accept a damn piece of cake. 

 

 

The cake weirdness struck me too.   I thought it would come out later the frosting was drugged or hexed or something.  If you're going to make a big deal about a character not accepting a piece of cake, you're kind of obligated to pay it off later.   Chekhov's cake and all that.

The opening was grotesque and I'm disappointed that this continues to be one of the main roles for women on the show. 

 

 

I'm glad you said something because I found the opening to be sadistic and repulsive.   Word to writers: that shit isn't scary, k?   It's just fucked up and sick.   Quit it.   Stop using gore, violence and sadism as substitutes for plot.

 

Okay, I've read the whole thread now.   Lots of outrage about nicknames, not so much the woman being strung up like a hog and bled into a bucket.   Got it.

Edited March 27, 2015 by millennium

[Demented Daisy]

millenium, I'm sorry you were offended that the female soldier's death wasn't more discussed, but:

 

I wish they would stop trying to tackle military-based stories.  It makes my teeth itch, when they get things wrong.  And why did it have to be a female soldier killed in the beginning?  What did that contribute to the story?

 

 

Some of us did complain.  

[millennium]

millenium, I'm sorry you were offended that the female soldier's death wasn't more discussed, but:

 

 

Some of us did complain.  

 

I said "not so much," not "not at all."  I was comparing it to nickname-gate.   Admittedly, I just don't get fandom sometimes.

[DittyDotDot]

I'm glad you said something because I found the opening to be sadistic and repulsive.   Word to writers: that shit isn't scary, k?   It's just fucked up and sick.   Quit it.   Stop using gore, violence and sadism as substitutes for plot.

 

Okay, I've read the whole thread now.   Lots of outrage about nicknames, not so much the woman being strung up like a hog and bled into a bucket.   Got it.

 

To be honest, I rarely pay attention to the before credit "teaser"s anymore (I put it in quotes because they're really not much of a tease, IMO) and usually forget them by the time I get to the thread. I think the show has forgotten how to find the humor in the horror and now just goes for the gross-out for shock value instead. It's not like I am actually offended by gore, but just like gratuitous sex and language, if it doesn't serve the story I just care about it either. So, I actually didn't remember there was a woman strung up like a hog at the top of the episode...but now that you mention it, yeah totally pointless in the end.

 

Also, I didn't understand why Kit was going through so much trouble to target these particular people when I think it would've been easier to grab someone at a convenience store or an alley or pretty much anyone other than a trained military officer. Also, I didn't understand why he went after his wife. He obviously passed up countless people who could've served his dehydration needs on his way to their house, but instead he prolongs his hunger so he can kill his wife? Was there some dialogue I missed while in that special comatose state this show lulls me into lately?

[AwesomO4000]

Though it's not stated in the show outright, I often see a "theme" where someone turned monster seems to be driven, attracted to, etc. their family, either as a victim or to "turn" them in turn. Though not with all  monsters, this does happen sometimes in the show. The monster kid Eve created waited until he got back to family to attack, the people infected with the Croatoan virus turned their family, the ghoul "family", and to an extent, werewolves. It's one of the things I use to explain for me why Dean was so driven to go see Lisa and Ben when he was a vampire even though it was the stupidest thing to do ever, in my opinion. So in my fanwank Dean was drawn to them by monster instinct to maybe turn them, and he couldn't quite fight that instinct.

 

So for me, I placed the Khan worn variant as another of those monsters that came with a "kill and/or turn family" instinct. Though I admit I might just be seeing patterns and / or connections where none really exist.

[supposebly]

Well, it makes for better drama if the monsters attack someone close instead of some random person. ;-)

 

Although I like your fanwank which means there is one less thing I have to be annoyed by. Yeah!

[Dobian]

I thought the cold opening of this episode was the single most disturbing thing I have ever seen on this show.  It was like I was watching a scene from Hostel.  Sure there is violence and death all the time on Supernatural, but so much of it is fantastical and you can watch it without taking it too seriously.  But the woman hanging from the ceiling and getting her throat slit by her all-too-human killer was a little bit too "real".  It was more serial killer than monster thriller.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Dobian

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I decided to follow the good example of someone recently who mentioned watching SPN 'slightly inebriated'.  I wish I could remember who that was, to give credit where credit is due, but you see, I'm slightly inebriated...  And I actually did this on a few eps back in S9 based on good advice from @AwesomO4000 and possibly @DittyDotDot but for some reason got out of the habit.  Silly me.  :)  So this is what happens:

• Hey!  I’ve been to Fayetteville.  Not much there, other than the army base. 
• The beginning was really creepy.  What a horrifying way for the woman to die – to see it coming like that.  I do wish, however, that it would have been a man tied up while a woman slit his throat and drained his blood.   Too common to have the woman be the victim.
• Loved how Dean automatically thought “porn” when Sam slammed his laptop shut.  (Cause yeah, Sam – nothing says “Guilty” like slamming the laptop shut when someone walks up.  Pro tip: just switch to another tab or window.)
• Good Guck, that ‘town’ and ‘Municipal Hall’ look nothing like the real Fayetteville.  I wonder what people who live there and watch the show actually think?  If that were my home town, I’d be insulted.
• Dean eyeing the cake?  Wow.  The MOC is really doing a job on him, isn’t it?  NOW you should be worried, Sam.  And why wouldn’t he let Dean have a piece?  What would it hurt?   I just love the finger swipe in the icing though.  You go, Dean.  Getcha some.
• I actually liked Cole showing up again.  And “working” with the guys.  It felt organic with the military case.  But I don’t know how Sam was able to work alongside him so calmly after what the guy did/was going to do to him.
• When the hell did the guys changed out of their pencil neck suits between the Gas and Sip and Jemma’s house?  Wish I’d been in Baby for that!
• So…”North” of Fayetteville is the Raleigh/Durham area.  I know!  Kit was hiding out in Research Triangle Park!
• Was that the creepy cabin from that episode with the woman ghost who flagged them down on the road?  I can’t remember the episode or season.  I think it was early.  Or was that Bobby’s cabin in “Wyoming”?  I know I’ve seen it before.
• I was just thinking I’d seen this on an episode of Star Trek when Dean mentioned the Khan worm.  Neat to see it again.  Interesting there were multiples within the same host this time.  ...and gross.
• Lol at Dean’s eye roll when Cole chose electrocution. 
• But seriously with the DC (direct current - as in battery, versus household) Cole would have already been dead.  Just saying.  His muscles would have all seized.  His hands would have clenched around the chair arms and not let go.  And he would have had serious burns/bruises at the point of entry.
• I was actually tense wondering if Cole was going to be saved.  Well done, show.
• Whoever said Sam’s hair this season looks like the Dutch Paint Boy was spot on.  Guck, it’s irritating sometimes.

This was a good ep.  I liked it.  Good suspense.  Good feels.  Great acting all around. 

[Dobian]

14 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

• Whoever said Sam’s hair this season looks like the Dutch Paint Boy was spot on.  Guck, it’s irritating sometimes.

I have also been distracted by Sam's hair this season.  I keep waiting for someone to say to agent (insert rock star name here), doesn't the FBI have a hair policy?

[DittyDotDot]

9 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I keep waiting for someone to say to agent (insert rock star name here), doesn't the FBI have a hair policy?

I've been waiting for that since, oh, about S3. ;)

Edited September 23, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[bettername2come]

I finally got an episode in my state! Literally cheered when the screen said "Fayetteville, North Carolina." And I worked there when the episode aired. It made going to work a little more pleasant the day after this one aired. 

On 9/22/2016 at 9:52 PM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Good Guck, that ‘town’ and ‘Municipal Hall’ look nothing like the real Fayetteville.  I wonder what people who live there and watch the show actually think?  If that were my home town, I’d be insulted.

Pretty sure they never get the areas right on this show, so mostly thinking, "Hey, Sam and Dean were thirty minutes from my house! I could've made them pie!"

Gruesome deaths in this one. Nice acting by the gas station cashier who lived literally shaking as he called 911. "Machete brothers" is the best line Cole ever got. I think this is his best episode. Probably saying that because he's not threatening my boys. I do not like his "Sammy" and "Deano" nonsense.

On 9/23/2016 at 0:22 PM, Dobian said:

I have also been distracted by Sam's hair this season.  I keep waiting for someone to say to agent (insert rock star name here), doesn't the FBI have a hair policy?

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/370421138074609904/ "Sam, of course, is an abomination."

[Hanahope]

Ewww, one of the creepier MOTW stories with the parasite inside them, thirsty for blood.

Cole felt a bit shoe-horned in.  He just happened to coincidently be friends with the latest guy infected by the parasite.  And working with the guys also didn't quite feel right, but I get the writers wanted to use him again.  I guess they do need to add some new 'helpers' for Sam and Dean, since so many others have died.

Dean going after the cake was funny, but wait, he's not a cake guy, he's pie.

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Cole felt a bit shoe-horned in.  He just happened to coincidently be friends with the latest guy infected by the parasite.  And working with the guys also didn't quite feel right, but I get the writers wanted to use him again.  I guess they do need to add some new 'helpers' for Sam and Dean, since so many others have died.

I did not like this episode.  And I did not like Cole.  But, I think this episode was to give Cole closure on his dad's death once and for all.

[The Companion]

 

On 3/18/2015 at 9:47 PM, rue721 said:

 

The PTSD thing didn't make sense to me. I mean, maybe the soldiers *also* had PTSD, but that doesn't cause massive dehydration. Once someone is drinking bathwater and bleeding from dehydration, it's maybe time for 911.

 

So much this. Probably covered, but it was absolutely bizarre that these guys didn't get any medical treatment, especially after seeing Cole react: 1. quickly to the worm; and 2. while being totally aware of something being wrong. 

 

On 3/18/2015 at 11:42 PM, supposebly said:

That seemed to be the common theme of this episode, make them look stupid and then have a bowel movement scene about it.

 

I snort laughed at this description.

On 3/19/2015 at 9:25 AM, DittyDotDot said:

I think my biggest irritation with the episode is instead of really using the horror well, they went for the gross/gory instead. Note to show, gory is not terrifying; it's just gross and kinda makes me point and laugh sometimes. 

 

Gore really goes best with humor. I . . . may need therapy. 😆

On 3/19/2015 at 3:30 PM, SueB said:

My Rewatch Opinions (because it always makes more sense for me the second time around):

 

Big Picture:

- While I get that the episode didn't resonate with many, I personally found it did a decent job of setting up the back-half of the season. Specifically, while the boys were together trying to get rid of the Mark, Dean has come to accept that there is nothing that is going to get him out of this.  And Sam is coming to the same conclusion, and is starting to panic.  I thought the MOTW being good heroes turned into monsters that had to be put down was a fitting parallel. Which is what these MOTW are generally designed to do.

 

Specifics:

 

Dean - I think Dean has not "given up". I think the analogy of a terminally ill person is what he's got in his head.  He figures he's going to go beserk eventually.  I think in Dean's mind, Cas can kill him by smiting.  Of course Cas is losing mojo rapidly, but Metatron killed Dean essentially by stabbing him to death.  He didn't smite him.  I think Dean is HOPING that since most Angels can take out demons, Cas (or someone Cas can bring), will take Dean out if Dean goes off the deep end.  He doesn't have much of a plan beyond that.  But then again, they were able to trap Cain, so perhaps Dean figures that if Sam & Cas (and maybe Crowley) team up, they can trap him if he goes off on a rampage.  Cain had centuries "in control", Dean is hoping to have some time and treating this as a remission condition.  In the meantime, he'll save as many as he can.

 

Sam - Is unwilling to consign Dean to this fate so he's looking for the solution that gets Dean back to being regular Dean without the Mark.  Re-looking at the same research is not really going to work.  And now he's had a face-full of reality as he had to kill Kit.  Sam can be just as "in denial" as Dean can sometimes.  This episode made it really hard to accept that. Most importantly, I think this is an obvious turning point for Sam going down a reckless path ala S3. 

 

The Hero Dies Analogy - obvious but effective IMO.

 

Continuity with The Executioner's Song - Although Dean appeared to keep Cain's prophecy to himself, I'm taking his calm demeanor this time as a sign that he took no bloodlust pleasure in killing Cain.  Or if he did, he was able to keep it under control.  Unlike the other kills, it would appear it was a single stab wound to the base of the neck (Execution Style).  If was done out of necessity, not out of desire.  Now Tessa's death was kinda similar in that he didn't want to kill her.  OTOH, Dean has since had a lot more time living with the bloodlust.  I think the "high" it gave him with Tessa was based on his inexperience.  At the end of the day, I'm okay with Cain's execution resulting in cosmic thunder and just emotionally/physically sapping Dean versus Dean losing his mind.  I think it's a testament to the work Sam and Dean did in the first half of the season that Dean came out of that conflict able to eventually move on.  

 

Specifics for this Week's Story:

 

Cole - Yeah, the ad-lib "Deano" and 'Sammy' annoyed. But otherwise I think he served a good purpose of reminding these guys that the "monsters" are sometimes victims.  Cole was put to appropriate use IMO because he already knew how deadly these guys were and had the appropriate military background for getting engaged in the activity.  Plus Cole, as the obvious Dean-mirror, gave Dean a chance to save someone from giving into the inner monster.  That's a plus for Dean who clearly sees that continuing to hold his own inner monster at bay, to keep fighting the effects of the Mark, is what he's going to have to do.  So for Dean, despite losing Kit -- this episode is a "win".  I also thought TAW did a good job in that cabin.  He looked really strung out and "real" in his desperation. 

 

Khan Worm 'Beta' class? - I kinda liked that they went this route.  Eve's went in through the ear JUST like a Khan worm, but this looks like something that could have been buried in Ancient Persia for centuries.  Disturbed by the new prison.  But I could see Eve whipping up a more modern version while she was around.  She needed to control the people, this variant of Khan worm just was a parasite.  But I did notice the green/black goo that came out with Cole's worm.  Which means the electrocution had some effect.  Nice bit of goo-continuity SPN!

 

Overall plot & pacing: worked for me.  It didn't matter if I knew Sam & Dean would live, the question was if Kit or Cole would survive and who would take them out if they didn't. It felt appropriate freaky at the right times and tense at the end.  

 

PTSD and the affects on the Military Family - I thought this was well handled.  Just the grim reminder that soldiers have to continue to face a battle when they get home.  And their families have their own battle to face as well.  The biggest barrier IS the military culture.  Going to see the doc about a mental condition, one presumes when you are active duty, is the same thing as losing your job.  This not necessarily the case, but there's a culture of fear that makes people who have PTSD often unwilling to address it if they can "get by".  Most of us just avoid the doc unless we are ordered to go or it's obviously little and curable (like strep throat).  It doesn't have to make sense, this is just what I've observed.

 

VA versus the Military Medical System - I get why Jenny Klein wanted to comment on the awful waiting times of the VA. But in this case, these were active duty personnel, not retirees.  The Veteran's Administration and the Department of Defense are not the same organization. Like, not at all.  They had "just come back from deployment", were living in what appeared to be base housing (although it was really NICE base housing from my perspective), and the monster timeline did not support there being enough time for these guys to have been discharged from the military.  This means they would have been seen by active duty doctors.  And there would have been no waiting to be seen with the bleeding face and the odd thirst.  It does a disservice to the military medical personnel, who are usually very good, to imply that Kit would have been turned away.  As a military retiree myself, I know I was always well cared for while active duty and now that I'm retired, I still have military medical insurance.  The VA is for those honorably discharged or retired who have no financial means for their care. My yearly medical insurance (as a retired military) is less than what most people pay for a month.  If I couldn't cover that, I COULD go to the VA -- but I don't.  BUT, I do totally agree that if you are discharged and the VA is your only option, it's not in good shape and so Jenny's commentary was not wrong, just not accurate for the plot.  

 

Other military mistakes: Beards, emailing classified data!, a complete lack of a manhunt by the MP's.  Yeah... many liberties taken here.  I just shrug my shoulders because that's kinda Hollywood "par".  

 

Other delightful details: There were St Patrick's Day stickers on the gas pumps.  They must have know it would be airing about now or added it in post-production.  The "every other Tuesday" was perfect except they moved to Wednesday.  Still, Dean saying it was a Monday implied this was a routine hunt.  I liked that.  I also liked that the THEN focused on the unknown nature of what they are dealing with and how they have to fly by the seat of their pants a lot. Sammy's roadside cafe! 

 

Other face palm moments: Fridged the girl in the teaser. Killed a person of color next. Dean not tying up Cole after he went for the water. Jensen keeping his damn second layer on in a sweat lodge.

 

Bottom Line: Per usual, I liked it better on rewatch.  I thought this was a solid MOTW with good parallels and an interesting plot. 

 

(ETA: Sorry for the length...felt kinda strong about the military health care system getting a bad rep)

This is such a great take on everything. I found myself nodding along with so much of it. The episode wasn't one that worked for me entirely, but you make some really compelling points. I think the face palm moments just bugged me too much. Plus Cole is pretty awful. I didn't like his overly macho flat characterization before and I don't feel like this episode improved my opinion.

On 3/23/2015 at 2:23 AM, AwesomO4000 said:

 

As for the episode - I agree with you here. It's too presumptuous of Cole to be using the nicknames. Intimidation or not, Sam and Dean either shouldn't be buying it or they should be annoyed. In either case, they should be side-eying Cole for it. Not everyone answers to just about anything * ... and especially Sam who's shown in the past that he prefers to be addressed in a certain way and generally does the same for others he doesn't know well - unless he's in a situation where he's trying to appear unruffled and/or he just doesn't care (Like when he called the lawyer "Matlock").

 

And also seriously, if Cole called Sam "Sammy" or Sammy boy" when he was torturing him - I'm not positive, but it seems likely - should he then be calling him that still now, because ouch... not the thing he should be reminding Sam of. Sure Sam seems to be generally forgiving, but seriously. Not. Cool.

 

* (like I do - seriously, for some reason my last name gets turned into a similar first name and people call me it on a regular basis. I don't care and answer to it, too, and since I'm terrible with people's names anyway, it's actually kind of fitting).

Without running the nickname thing into the ground, this is a really good summary of what bugged me. I go by a name that is easily reducible into a common nickname, but I don't like that nickname for me. Yet, I will sign emails and in the immediate reply be called by the common nickname. I had a partner at a law firm who refused to call me by my preferred name because he "didn't like it" and another who chose to call me by a nickname he made up that I didn't like at all. I have had people comment on my preferred name in gross and insulting ways. Basically, at the end of the day, I find myself wanting to scream JUST CALL ME BY MY PREFERRED NAME. Now, I give my kids all sorts of cutesy nicknames and my Mom did the same to me, and that didn't bug me. But that is a totally different context. In this context it is presumptuous and awkward and offputting.

And yes, I get what he is saying about military units and nicknames. Every guy in my husband's unit had a nickname. But they got it over time because everyone would be sitting around bored (except that often they were just called by last name because that is what is on their uniform). That is a nickname that arises out of a shared and common experience. The context here didn't match up for me. 

All of that to say, somebody needed to tell him to cut it out. 

 

On 3/27/2015 at 6:13 PM, millennium said:

 

The cake weirdness struck me too.   I thought it would come out later the frosting was drugged or hexed or something.  If you're going to make a big deal about a character not accepting a piece of cake, you're kind of obligated to pay it off later.   Chekhov's cake and all that.

 

I'm glad you said something because I found the opening to be sadistic and repulsive.   Word to writers: that shit isn't scary, k?   It's just fucked up and sick.   Quit it.   Stop using gore, violence and sadism as substitutes for plot.

 

The cake was so weird. What was the point of that? Why didn't Sam let Dean have a piece? Why did Dean suddenly become a toddler and steal some icing? Why was there no payoff? It was an odd choice all around. 

Just amplifying that the first scene was gross and gratuitous and it bugged me a lot. I am not going to have another soapbox moment about this show and women, so I will just agree that it added nothing to the story whatsoever, and there was absolutely no reason to have her in almost no clothing so it was even more disappointing.

This episode had moments ranging from meh to eyeroll for me. If Cole never re-emerges, it will be too soon.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

So much this. Probably covered, but it was absolutely bizarre that these guys didn't get any medical treatment, especially after seeing Cole react: 1. quickly to the worm; and 2. while being totally aware of something being wrong. 

Didn't the first guy's widow say he was on a list to get on a list to see a doctor, but the VA was 

 

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

The cake was so weird. What was the point of that? Why didn't Sam let Dean have a piece? Why did Dean suddenly become a toddler and steal some icing? Why was there no payoff? It was an odd choice all around. 

It's a thing. Sam never lets Dean eat food when it's offered.  I don't know why.

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

This episode had moments ranging from meh to eyeroll for me. If Cole never re-emerges, it will be too soon.

I know you don't want spoilers, but I think you can choose to look at this:

Spoiler

you're safe

 

[The Companion]

38 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Didn't the first guy's widow say he was on a list to get on a list to see a doctor, but the VA was 

 

It's a thing. Sam never lets Dean eat food when it's offered.  I don't know why.

I know you don't want spoilers, but I think you can choose to look at this:

  Hide contents

you're safe

 

Well, aside from the points made above about the VA being the wrong entity, he was emergent and I would have expected ER care. There was a disconnect, I think, with the level of incapacity/illness that was shown and the reaction built into the script. 

I don't know that I have ever noticed that Sam doesn't let Dean eat food. I believe you that it is a thing, but this was so forceful. It made it really noticeable in a bizarre way. 

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I don't know that I have ever noticed that Sam doesn't let Dean eat food. I believe you that it is a thing, but this was so forceful. It made it really noticeable in a bizarre way. 

The only other time I remember off the top of my head is A Very Supernatural Christmas, but I'm pretty sure there were at least a couple of other times.  Maybe he's afraid of poison.  At this point, maybe he still has leviathan doubts and doesn't want Dean eating anything with corn syrup in it.  

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

It's a thing. Sam never lets Dean eat food when it's offered.  I don't know why.

Heh. It's true. It was perhaps one of the reasons we knew that Soulless Sam wasn't really Sam, because he drank tea with one of the witnesses in "Clap Your Hands..."

One good thing from it though... it lessens the chances of them getting roofied or whammied somehow from food, because they can never know when one of the potential witnesses might be the monster. Dean, has had a couple of problems with beer getting him in trouble, for example. Beer got him in the clutches of the dreamwalker in "Dream a Little Dream..." and it got him dosed with Siren saliva in "Sex and Violence."

Of course 99%+ of the time there's likely no problem, but maybe Sam is just paranoid. Heh.

Edited January 21, 2020 by AwesomO4000

[Katy M]

11 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Dean, has had a couple of problems with beer getting him in trouble, for example. Beer got him in the clutches of the dreamwalker in "Dream a Little Dream..." and it got him dosed with Siren saliva in "Sex and Violence."

And don't forget the pudding in The PUrge.  Although, that wasn't exactly offered to him:)