S02.E09: XVII

[maraleia]

Flint and Miranda come to grips with their past. Bonny makes clear her intentions to Rackham. Vane collects a huge prize. Eleanor issues a declaration of war.

[Nilo]

Mrs. Barlow!!!! I was shocked! That wasn't at all what I expected. Holy crap!

[Garnett7]

So many thoughts on this episode. I need to rewatch it a few dozen times.

 

Awww, but Vane is a fanboy of Billy. Loved their fight and enjoyed their scene together.

 

Poor Miranda. :( I didn't realize how much I'd come to like her until she met her end. And, dude, how much of a pussy is this Rhett guy? A trained soldier, armed with sword and gun, with men at his command and his way of handling an unarmed woman who raises her voice is to shoot her? Overkill, much?

 

I knew  something was up with that clock the first time Miranda took note of it. I assumed it had belonged to Thomas but I figured Thomas might have given it to Ashe, hadn't expected that Ashe secretly double-crossed Flint/Thomas/Miranda all those years ago and threw in with old Geezer Hamiliton.

 

But now that we know Ashe's betrayal I think we can safely declare Thomas not really dead. Cause Miranda said Ashe sent her the letter saying that Thomas had died in the asylum. But if Ashe was in Geezer Hamiliton's pocket then I figure the letter was a ploy to ensure Flint never returned to England looking for Thomas.

 

Randall!!! Man, why you gotta do that, show? Randall was one of the best things on the series. I loved him. He made for great comic relief.

 

Do not care that Hornigold/Dufrense sent Eleanor off to face England's wrath. Good riddance.

 

I know it's a bit cheesy that now Vane must work with Flint's crew to save Flint but I like the motivation behind it, that the pirates must stop in-fighting and ban together if they're to stand any chance. As much as Vane hates Flint, he hates England more and knows what a blow it'd be to Nassau and how it would embolden England all the more if they took out Flint now.

[Ripley Rules]

Miranda Barlow, RIP.  Buh-bye, Eleanor.

 

As usual, it's the female characters on a TV show that end up being the most expendable.

 

I just knew that things would turn out badly for Flint.  I believed from the get-go that Lord Ashe intended to see Flint hang and never intended to honor his word.   Lord Ashe, and the British government by extension, want to annihilate piracy at any cost.  They would never trust a man as high up in the pirate hierarchy as Flint.

 

I can't cheer over Anne helping to protect Jack against Eleanor's men, and getting back together with him.  I'm still disgusted by what she did to Charlotte.

 

Interesting to see that Vane is finally pulling his head out of his butt and seeing the big picture.  He was actually the smarter pirate this time.  His going to rescue Flint makes sense, but what's really going to be fun is what happens afterwords- will he and Flint forge a temporary alliance of convenience?  Or will Flint, with the help of John and Billy, escape?  Will John somehow be forced to admit that he knows the gold is still on the island to Flint?  So many possibilities there.

 

I've always been neutral on Eleanor- she did some bad things, but she wasn't as horrible as some of the other characters on the show.  Ruthless when she needed to be, but also frequently incompetent.  Her story line made no sense to me.  Yes, she directed all the commerce on the island, but she's not actually the one out raiding and killing.  I can't believe that Captain Hume would think she was worth 9 pardons..she's not nearly as valuable to the Crown as someone like Vane, Flint, or Rackham. If Eleanor isn't operating in Nassau then someone would step in and fill the void, or the pirates would simply start taking their booty elsewhere.  It's known as The Law of Supply and Demand.

 

Seeing Dufresne's smirky face after he turned over Eleanor made me want to take a baseball bat to his ugly, oversized chin.  Then whack him again in the nuts.  Unfortunately, I've heard that Roland Reed is confirmed for season 3 so he'll be back.  

Edited March 22, 2015 by Ripley Rules

[Neurochick]

I think thats what bothered me most. The female characters get killed off or sold off but cross eyed Vane is still there.

It was ironic that Miranda was murdered because she was the one last season, who wanted the pardon. Last season Flint was like, fuck England, but she was the one who wanted to go back to something akin to her old life.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Neurochick

[Morrigan2575]

OMG! The show killed me tonight, first Randall and then the shocking death of Miranda. I really liked her this season, so sad to see her go.

I knew something was up with the clock but I thought it was the time, I missed last week's episode and wondered if there was something about 7pm that was important.

I loved the Jack/Anne reunion look forward to their adventure although I don't think they'll get the gold. Then again who knows maybe this show will turn Treasure Island on it's side.

The Billy stuff was awesome but I'm a Billy fan, he's one of the few "good" characters even though by most standards he's fairly bad.

I loved that Vane realized the bigger picture. I think Vane/Flint and Flint/Silver play off each other so well. It's highly entertaining to me, to see those pairings.

[Tabasco Cat]

I think we haven't seen the last of Eleanor Guthrie. The English captain seemed to have recognized her on the beach.

 

Amanda's death was shocking, to say the least. All in all a great episode. Not enough to rescue the season from its string of snooze-worthy scripts, but a really good episode anyway. The biggest disappointment for me was that Anne didn't kill Max in their scene together. Everything else was top notch.

[Garnett7]

 

The female characters get killed off or sold off

 

I think it's a fairly even ratio myself. Did any female characters die in season one? I'm totally blanking if so. This season we lost Miranda (who was a main one) and Charlotte (who was a guest star at best). On the male side, Gates was killed. Tonight saw the end of Randall and the pirate who scares people with the fake teeth, along with a few other of Flint's crew. Richard Guthrie died last week. There was the guy bucking Flint last season who got crushed under the ship. As far as recurring/main characters go, it's been Gates/Guthrie/Randall vs. Miranda.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Garnett7

[Neurochick]

It is only even if you start with an even number of men and women.

[ganesh]

I certainly don't mind a show where lots of people get killed, like the Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. Spartacus. The show universes, like Black Sails, lend to that there is going to be a lot of death. However, I find Miranda gratuitous. This totally was one of those "let's kill character Z to give character X development." I don't think they needed to kill her to develop Flint more. Of course, I'm convinced Thomas is alive. 

 

I did like how Miranda saw right through the "come back to England" bs. Yeah sure. Come back and get hanged. 

 

I did like Billy's point, and I was surprised he was so aware that "they don't see the difference." That's something Silver would say. I also wonder if Silver didn't impress something similar on Vane off screen right before they came out onto the deck at the end.

 

Say what you want about Vane, and there's a lot to say, but you give me an 'unholy alliance' trope and I am *all in*. It's usually a staple of science fiction. Here, it's like, "we're all pirates tonight. also we have a war ship." I'm actually surprised that Vane was able to grasp the big picture, which is why I think Silver had some influence as well. 

 

I'm not convinced this is the end of Elanor. I do agree with the criticism of her value. She's basically a mob boss. Let's say they kill here right there on the beach. Commerce is still going to continue. It's just as likely Max declares herself in charge and not much changes. It's not like removing Elanor destroys the criminal trade in the region. 

[WatchrTina]

 

A trained soldier, armed with sword and gun, with men at his command and his way of handling an unarmed woman who raises her voice is to shoot her?

Taking a page from Daenerys Targaryen, that asshole needs to "die screaming."  Flint will see to that.

 

now that we know Ashe's betrayal I think we can safely declare Thomas not really dead. Cause Miranda said Ashe sent her the letter saying that Thomas had died in the asylum. But if Ashe was in Geezer Hamiliton's pocket then I figure the letter was a ploy to ensure Flint never returned to England looking for Thomas.

Oooh, I like that idea.  I think I read that the actor who plays Thomas is married in real life to the actress who plays, (played?) Lady Hamilton.  Perhaps they will appear in flashback scenes together again next season and then Thomas can surface from wherever he has been kept in the "present."  Though if he did surface after 10 years of imprisonment, he might be in really bad shape.

 

Other thoughts on the episode:

 

So Vane is going to rescue Flint.  Billy, Silver, and even Mr. Scott are going to help.  Talk about a dream team!  I think that convergence of motivations may be the first sign of the apocalypse.  "Cats and dogs, living together!"

 

I actually stood up and cheered at Vane's "let's go get him" speech.  Someone on twitter coined the hashtag #TeamFlane.  I'm not quite there yet but I am interested to see what a Flint/Vane partnership could yield.  Especially since "England" just murdered Flint's best friend and occasional fuck buddy, was revealed to have betrayed Flint's true love (Thomas), and kidnapped Vane's former love.  That's one pissed-off duo.  I wouldn't want them mad at me.

 

I'm having a hard time feeling any sympathy for Eleanor since she tried to kill Jack Rackham (CAPTAIN Jack Rackham.)  Not too fussed that the English dragged her off but I do predict that Hornigold and/or Dufresne will die at the end of Vane's sword as a result.  

 

I'm glad Anne got her groove back and returned in time to put a stop to Eleanor's plot.  Sometimes a homicidal psychopath is just what the doctor ordered.  No, I have not forgiven her for Charlotte yet but Jack's happy she is back so I'll just be happy for him.

 

Vane and Silver finally met!  Vane and Billy finally met!  And the Samurai Pirate survived the battle (I like him.)   In fact, everyone I like is now on the same team.  Oh dear.  This situation cannot hold.  I'm sure this will end in tears.

Edited March 22, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Jeebus Cripes]

Randal was my boy! Not OK, show. Miranda's death shocked the crap out of me. I think I might have jumped out of my seat. I was ill at ease ever since she tripped out on that clock, but I was not expecting her brains getting blown out.

 

 

Say what you want about Vane, and there's a lot to say, but you give me an 'unholy alliance' trope and I am *all in*. It's usually a staple of science fiction. Here, it's like, "we're all pirates tonight. also we have a war ship." I'm actually surprised that Vane was able to grasp the big picture, which is why I think Silver had some influence as well. 

 

This. I'm all about it. 

 

And the Samurai Pirate survived the battle (I like him.)  

 

Yeah, I keep waiting for that guy to get at least one line. Doesn't have to be in English, just something.

 

Dufresne gives me the raging shits. I don't care about Eleanor, but I loathe and detest that bastard. He can't die soon enough for me.

 

Did anyone else half expect Anne to shank Jack when she first showed up? I know it sounds mental, but she's been so batshit cray lately that I let myself imagine she was Guthrie's agent for a moment.

[Ripley Rules]

 

Oooh, I like that idea.  I think I read that the actor who plays Thomas is married in real life to the actress who plays, (played?) Lady Hamilton.  

 

Louise Barnes (Miranda Barlow) is married to Nick Boraine (Lord Ashe) IRL.  They're both South African.

 

I'm having a hard time feeling any sympathy for Eleanor since she tried to kill Jack Rackham (CAPTAIN Jack Rackham.)  Not too fussed that the English dragged her off but I do predict that Hornigold and/or Dufresne will die at the end of Vane's sword as a result.  

 

We can only hope. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by Ripley Rules

[attica]

I think I read that the actor who plays Thomas is married in real life to the actress who plays, (played?) Lady Hamilton.

 

Nope; in addition to what Ripley mentions above, Rupert Penry-Jones (Thomas) is married to Kervla Derwin.

 

Gasped aloud when Miranda bought it. Bastards! At least she had the chance to twig Flint to the real agenda. And I'm guessing Ashe's going to the window, all pensively, was in fact a signal to the launch boat.

 

I would have liked the on-board fight better if I could have seen it. There's no appreciating all that (what I guess to be) fine fight choreography if it's filmed in darkness. And if your plot demands it happens in darkness (as it does), well then, reduce its screen time!

[CatMack]

Pissed about Barlow.  There are fewer named, important female characters on this show to begin with, and the writing for them has been consistently inconsistent.  So throwing one away to motivate Flint is a lot different than killing off any of the male characters.  It just is.  Maybe if I needed more than one hand to count the female characters on this show I wouldn't mind as much.  But I don't, and I do.  Not only have we lost an interesting character with lots of depth played by a great actress, I feel like that chances of us getting a new important female character to "replace" her are slim, which means proportionally this show is even more of a sausage fest than it was before.  And before anyone throws out "historical accuracy" as a reason I, or anyone else, shouldn't get upset at the relative lack of decent female representation on this show, bullshit.  Women didn't just start existing during the women's lib movement.  "Historical accuracy" is only an excuse for writing solely about white men if the only history you're looking at is the one written by white men.  Populating a show like this with so many white men and so few of anyone else is an active choice, not an inevitability, and it's one that's worth pointing out and criticising.  

.

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I will give them this - I actually almost liked Vane at the end.  Which I never thought would happen.  Various posters, myself included, have talked ad nauseum about the various reasons we don't like Vane, so I won't repeat all of them.  I will just say that one of my problems with him was his smug certainty that he knew everything and was always right.  That smugness may not have been there in literally every scene, but it was there often enough to skeeve me out.  So his admitting that Billy was right, his being willing to back down and start thinking about the long term, was a nice change.  Not enough to make not dislike his character still, but enough that I might not resent sitting through his scenes next week.  I feel like before, I could always count on Vane to fuck up things for everyone else, but it didn't make him an interesting foil, not IMO.  It just made him an annoying hindrance to the more interesting plots.  He came off as a petulant child compared to the others often.  Now he feels a bit more unpredictable.  I might not be able to predict every move he makes an episode before he makes it anymore.  So there's that at least.

 

Now if someone would just give Zach McGowan a nice cup of honey lemon tea.  That sore throat of his is really painful to listen to.

[Garnett7]

For a pirate show, I think this series has had a fairly good female to male main character ratio. The main male characters I'd consider to be Flint, Billy, Silver, Vane, Jack and Gates (in season 1) with the ladies being Anne, Eleanor, Max, Miranda and they added Abigail this season (assuming she's to be around long term). With most of the action happening around the pirate ships, no surprise that there is more men in the background or as recurring parts since pirates were predominantly male. 

 

I love that the show has given very strong, badass women like Anne and Miranda. I know Miranda doesn't swing a sword but she was as tough as nails. Max is very shrewd and intelligent, Eleanor . . . well, my feelings on her can never be neutral so I won't even go there. I agree that (sadly) we haven't seen the last of her. Abigail will probably go to England and free her somehow next season.

 

I doubt that Thomas has been locked up in the asylum all this time. I wouldn't be surprised if his father got him out and "imprisoned" him in a country estate somewhere. Once he'd tarnished Thomas' reputation among his peers, had him dubbed insane, exiled Flint/Miranda and turned Ashe against Thomas, Alfred had successfully took all his son's power and sway away. He'd no longer be taken seriously anymore.

[WatchrTina]

 

I think this series has had a fairly good female to male main character ratio.

I have to agree.  It's not the number of women on screen that matters, it's the quality of the characterizations that count.  I've written elsewhere on these boards about how Max, Eleanor, Miranda and Anne all initiate action in this show.  They do things that cause the plot to move forward.  They are not just acted-upon by circumstances or by the men in the show, which I think is a very good thing.  I've complained about the writing for the women because the characters have all made some infuriatingly bad decisions, but I can't complain about a lack of female presence in the show.

 

As for Miranda's death, yes that was shocking and (to my mind) unrealistic.  Would the head of security for the Governor really shoot a woman in the head just for shouting threats?  Why?  Did he fear Miranda would inspire Flint to attack the Governor?  He heard her say that she encouraged Flint to go after Alfred Hamilton (right before he pulled a gun on her the first time.)  Did he know Hamilton and was he offended by Miranda having instigated Flint's hunting him down?  Did he know the story of Miranda's "infidelity" and hold her responsible for Thomas' fall from grace?  These things might have contributed to his being trigger-happy when it came to Miranda but mostly I blame plot necessity.  I hypothesize that the writers want season 3 to be about Vane & Flint teaming up to take on the English and in order to do that the last vestiges of James McGraw had to be killed off so that only Captain Flint remains.  The murder of Miranda Barlow served that purpose.  Any thoughts of reconciliation with England that Flint had before are gone gone gone.  Now they go to the mattresses.  That's my assumption for why Miranda was killed. It had to be outrageous and unjustified to drive Flint off the deep end, but because it was an outrageous act, it loses some credibility for me.

 

One other thought about the loss of Miranda from the show -- I think the timing was right.  What more could Miranda do to move the plot forward?  She is an active agent in the flashbacks, that letter she wrote to the Governor of Massachusetts certainly drove the plot forward, she had a role to play in the imprisonment (and later escape) of Mr. Guthrie and the rescue of Abigail.  But now?  What role could she play going forward in the plot? I think the time was right for her to go.  Her murder and the fall-out from it will reverberate through season 3 much more profoundly than anything Miranda could do on her own now that we (the viewers) know the secrets that bound her and Flint to one another.

Edited March 22, 2015 by WatchrTina

[tennisgurl]

As far as I can remember, Miranda is the only female character who has died who is part of the main cast, right? Last season Mr. Gates was the big death, and then this year, I think it will be Miranda. I am really sad that she`s dead though. I mean, I get why they did it, but I have warmed up to her a lot this season, now that I know more of what her deal is. I`ll miss her a lot, and I`m pissed that she was killed like that, so I`ll be right there with Flint on his inevitable revenge crusade so...it worked I guess. I do hope they add some more female characters soon. I love the one`s we have, but we could always use more. 

 

Anne is way less unstable and murderous when she`s with Jack, so I`m glad they're back together. I missed them as a duo while they were apart.

 

I love how just everyone loves Billy. Cant say I blame them.

 

I`ll admit it, I am a sucker for the "enemy`s have to work together for a common goal" trope, so I am really pumped about Vane and Flint working together. And Vane, Silver, Billy, and Mr. Scott all coming together to have Flint? Its the Dream Team of piracy! 

[WatchrTina]

 

Louise Barnes (Miranda Barlow) is married to Nick Boraine (Lord Ashe) IRL.  They're both South African.

I'm trying to imagine the conversation when the script for this episode arrived at their house.  Nick's character, Ashe, is revealed as the "big bad" -- the person whose betrayal is most responsible for the pain and loss and torment that Flint and Miranda (and Thomas) experienced.  He's probably going to have a big role to play next season (unless #TeamFlane offs him in the season 2 finale). Meanwhile, in the script, one of Ashe's henchmen shoots Louise's character in the head.  

 

Jewelry, NIck.  You can never go wrong with jewelry.  Also flowers.

[Neurochick]

So his admitting that Billy was right, his being willing to back down and start thinking about the long term, was a nice change.  Not enough to make not dislike his character still, but enough that I might not resent sitting through his scenes next week.  I feel like before, I could always count on Vane to fuck up things for everyone else, but it didn't make him an interesting foil, not IMO.  It just made him an annoying hindrance to the more interesting plots.  He came off as a petulant child compared to the others often.  Now he feels a bit more unpredictable.  I might not be able to predict every move he makes an episode before he makes it anymore.  So there's that at least.

 

 

I so agree.  I thought, "FINALLY, Vane sees the big picture."  

 

I thought one of the most interesting lines last night was when Ashe, after explaining how he ratted out Thomas and Flint to Lord Hamilton, told Miranda, "You want civilization, well this is what civilization is," choosing the lesser of the two evils.  Ashe really didn't have a choice.  Hamilton threatened his family, his daughter's future (at that time if a girl didn't marry the "right" man, she was practically fucked for life).  Ashe did what he felt was best for his family.  It was morally wrong, but I bet most people in reality, would have done the same.

 

I think last night's episode was asking, "who are you really?"  I think most of the surviving characters found out quickly who they really are.  Flint is a pirate, Vane too is a pirate who realized that even though he hates Flint, the "civilized" world sees both he and Flint exactly the same way and rescuing Flint is the only way to protect Nassau from the English, Ann realized who she was and sadly so did Eleanor.  Eleanor realized she was someone way over her head, I always saw her as a child trying to navigate the world of adults.

 

I think this season has been cool so far, and I realized that the very first scene in the first episode of the season, the kidnapping of Abigail Ashe, really set the tone for the rest of the season.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Neurochick

[cali1981]

Very sorry to see Miranda buy the farm, especially in the way that she did but then again, Rhett made it very clear from the outset that he would use any excuse to put a bullet in Flint and/or Miranda and I doubt that it was entirely so in order to protect Ashe.  Rhett appeared to have deep seated hatred of all things Nassau and pirate. Flint will, no doubt, rain retribution on his sorry ass.   I've thought all along that Charles Vane is no fool, nor is he naive.  He has shown flashes of a more sophisticated thought process at times and did so last night when he added things up.  He and Flint will now most likely be bound by "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" concept, at least for awhile.  The show, as it usually does, left open so many possibilities that it's hard to believe that next week is the season finale.  That should be fascinating.

[raven]

 

I've thought all along that Charles Vane is no fool, nor is he naive.  He has shown flashes of a more sophisticated thought process at times and did so last night when he added things up.

I've thought this as well.  He just doesn't want anything to do with England, who've now proven they can't be trusted to Flint.

 

I thought the entire back and forth with Ashe, Miranda & Flint was well done; I could see everyone's POV.  The truly loathsome individual, Lord Hamilton, is dead but his awfulness lives on; blackmailing Ashe to go against his friends as well as his principles, destroying his son's life, etc.  I actually don't blame Hamilton for Flint becoming a pirate - that was his own decision - and I'm not 100% sure I believe that McGraw is ready to put Flint to rest.  He became a pirate captain within 2 months and established a pretty terrifying reputation - part of him wanted that. 

 

I liked Ashe challenging McGraw to come forward as Flint - Flint has done horrible things, should he just retire quietly away? Is there a line, or would everyone be pardoned, no matter how many murders they've committed?  I like when shows get me thinking about that.  Then we find out Ashe sold out his two friends and I had a similar reaction to Miranda's,  Like Ashe said, that's how things work.  I agree with those of you who said that Thomas Hamilton is still alive somewhere.  What would he think of McGraw now?

 

Too bad they killed Miranda when she became interesting to me; I'm sorry to see her go.  I wasn't happy that they killed Randall and the scary "you fucked a goat..ha ha ha" guy.  I don't think the show has done badly with women (unless you're comparing naked skin ratios) - we've seen Max's rise to power, Eleanor's ruthlessness and being in charge persona, and they attempted to develop Anne, it just didn't work for me.  Very glad she is back with Jack, in whatever manner, they are better together.  Eleanor is the most problematic IMO - don't know if it's Hannah New or what, I don't care that she's basically unsympathetic, but this season has shown her flailing around and now being turned over as prisoner.  She's better when she's ordering the deaths of a bunch of pirates (EXCEPT Capt Jack Rackham).  Still I'm interested to see what happens to her.

 

I'm also very much looking forward to the unholy alliance of Vane and Flint LOL.  Blow everything up! 

 

This season has been a lot of fun.

[cali1981]

I thought the entire back and forth with Ashe, Miranda & Flint was well done; I could see everyone's POV.  The truly loathsome individual, Lord Hamilton, is dead but his awfulness lives on; blackmailing Ashe to go against his friends as well as his principles, destroying his son's life, etc.  I actually don't blame Hamilton for Flint becoming a pirate - that was his own decision - and I'm not 100% sure I believe that McGraw is ready to put Flint to rest.  He became a pirate captain within 2 months and established a pretty terrifying reputation - part of him wanted that. 

 

 

 

This kind of writing has been one of the great strengths of Black Sails.  When a back story is revealed in part or in whole, not only is it surprising but it makes absolute sense in the context of what is happening currently.  I have seen few, if any, continuity errors this season.

[Ravenya003]

Black Sails is not must-see-immediately viewing for me, but I'll admit - when the Big Moments come, I'm fist-pumping all over the place. This episode it was when Anne/Jack head out to fetch the Urca gold, and then when Vane decides to rescue Flint. Which leaves me completely torn: on the one hand I want Flint's plan for Nassau to work, on the other hand, I really want Anne/Jack/Max to get that gold - which will be detrimental to the big picture. 

 

Was a damn shame to lose Miranda, she was a great character and I've never liked the excuse "his/her story was finished" as a way of justifying a death. If a story is finished, you can just as easily write them out. RIP Randall as well, though in that case I have to admire the guts the writers had in giving a popular character such an inconsequential death like that.  

 

Also enjoyed the haunting story about where Flint originally got that name.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Ravenya003

[tennisgurl]

Poor Miranda. Still not over it. And why Randal? Why show, why? 

[luckyroll3]

So relieved that Samurai pirate survived!

 

We lost Miranda just when I actually started to like her.  She was reading Lord Ashe for filth before that bullet to the head.  And really dude, you couldn't shoot her in the shoulder or the leg or something?  She wasn't even carrying a weapon!  

 

What a complete chicken shit Ashe is.  He made it clear why people prefer piracy: pirates do their dirt in the open while the "civilized" folks hide behind a smile and politeness all while screwing you to get ahead.  And then for him to claim that Flint betrayed his good faith?!?  So fucking foul.  I don't even want to see what Flint is going to do to him and the other dude..

[Neurochick]

 

What a complete chicken shit Ashe is.  He made it clear why people prefer piracy: pirates do their dirt in the open while the "civilized" folks hide behind a smile and politeness all while screwing you to get ahead.  And then for him to claim that Flint betrayed his good faith?!?  So fucking foul.  I don't even want to see what Flint is going to do to him and the other dude..

 

For me, that was the point.  It explained why, in the first season, Flint didn't want to have anything to do with England, and why Vane never did.  

[Fredward]

Fuck man. Can't believe Miranda is dead. I liked her. A LOT. And I haven't read the book so I don't know how all this is 'supposed' to end (and don't spoil it) or even whether Eleanor is a character in it but I seriously, seriously doubt we've seen the last of her. You never see the last of Eleanor Guthrie.

 

But! To get to what I really want to gush over. The characterization. It's so sexy. And not always with the people you'd expect. Like Flint, he's good ofc but we've seen everything that happens to him, we know what he does what he does. There's not much mystery left, not much to chew on because it's already been chewed. And that, for me at least, is really important if I want to gush. Flint is the broken idealist, at his core were those ideals. And they're totally screwed now. The majority died with Tomas, the rest died with Miranda. He's just his hard shell now, but that shell would never have formed if he didn't have warm, fuzzy insides. Insides that, however whithered and hollowed, is still binding that hard shell.

 

But Miranda? Did you hear that speech before she got shot? The way she looked at Flint when she described that she wanted to see that whole city burn? His face? She KNEW the effect it would have, I imagine something simiar (but more subtle) happened when Daddy McAssclown got his hit ordered. The continuous emphasis on 'I' and 'our'? Compare that to Tomas (and Flint's) speeches on Nassua, on redemption. Their ideals and ambitions spread outwards, her's was relatively insular. Of the three I think Tomas was the true idealist/altruist, Flint is a creature of passion he loves those things with such intense fervor (more so than he would have if left on his own) BECAUSE Tomas loved it and he loved Tomas. Miranda was never an idealist, she was the rational one, the pragmatic one. The one drawn to the intense fires and passion of idealism but not necessarily sharing in it. Loving the idealist but not the ideals. Her caring was tied up in herself and by extension those closest to her, those that threatened that inner circle would either have to be avoided or utterly destroyed with not much thought given to the morality of the thing in that instance. She's the exact inverse of Flint, she wears her fluffy on the outside but at her core she's cold and hard and pretty ruthless.

 

This is NOT to say that she was a bad person. Because I genuinely don't think she was. This wall o'test was inspired because she was just to beautifully and nuancedly (I just made that a word yoh) different from Flint. I... am also really going to miss her bosoms.

[ulkis]

I would have liked the on-board fight better if I could have seen it. There's no appreciating all that (what I guess to be) fine fight choreography if it's filmed in darkness. And if your plot demands it happens in darkness (as it does), well then, reduce its screen time!

 

I did appreciate the darkness though during the scene beforehand when the violinist was playing, right before Silver discovered Randall. The ambiance of the scene was great. Out of all the shows McCreary scores for Starz, this show stands out the least imo (except for the amazing theme song); but that was a lovely tune. (Also that is not a diss really, I love and adore the scores for Outlander and Da Vinci's Demons, so saying I don't appreciate this score as much as the former two is like saying I don't like strawberry ice cream as much as chocolate and vanilla.)

[luckyroll3]

Fuck man. Can't believe Miranda is dead. I liked her. A LOT. And I haven't read the book so I don't know how all this is 'supposed' to end (and don't spoil it) or even whether Eleanor is a character in it but I seriously, seriously doubt we've seen the last of her. You never see the last of Eleanor Guthrie.

 

But! To get to what I really want to gush over. The characterization. It's so sexy. And not always with the people you'd expect. Like Flint, he's good ofc but we've seen everything that happens to him, we know what he does what he does. There's not much mystery left, not much to chew on because it's already been chewed. And that, for me at least, is really important if I want to gush. Flint is the broken idealist, at his core were those ideals. And they're totally screwed now. The majority died with Tomas, the rest died with Miranda. He's just his hard shell now, but that shell would never have formed if he didn't have warm, fuzzy insides. Insides that, however whithered and hollowed, is still binding that hard shell.

 

But Miranda? Did you hear that speech before she got shot? The way she looked at Flint when she described that she wanted to see that whole city burn? His face? She KNEW the effect it would have, I imagine something simiar (but more subtle) happened when Daddy McAssclown got his hit ordered. The continuous emphasis on 'I' and 'our'? Compare that to Tomas (and Flint's) speeches on Nassua, on redemption. Their ideals and ambitions spread outwards, her's was relatively insular. Of the three I think Tomas was the true idealist/altruist, Flint is a creature of passion he loves those things with such intense fervor (more so than he would have if left on his own) BECAUSE Tomas loved it and he loved Tomas. Miranda was never an idealist, she was the rational one, the pragmatic one. The one drawn to the intense fires and passion of idealism but not necessarily sharing in it. Loving the idealist but not the ideals. Her caring was tied up in herself and by extension those closest to her, those that threatened that inner circle would either have to be avoided or utterly destroyed with not much thought given to the morality of the thing in that instance. She's the exact inverse of Flint, she wears her fluffy on the outside but at her core she's cold and hard and pretty ruthless.

 

This is NOT to say that she was a bad person. Because I genuinely don't think she was. This wall o'test was inspired because she was just to beautifully and nuancedly (I just made that a word yoh) different from Flint. I... am also really going to miss her bosoms.

Very nicely said!  My mouth dropped open when Miranda was in her rant, because I was saying in my head, "Damn, she knows exactly what to say to get him to wipe out that entire city and she don't give a fuck who gets caught in the wreckage!"  I was actually waiting for Flint to jump on Ashe when the bullet came through her head, so I was doubly stunned and wholly unprepared for that. But your assessment of her, and of Flint, seem spot on to me.  I loved that she was so no nonsense about everything she did (still laughing at her and the preacher last season).  Damn, I'm gonna miss her.

[TobinAlbers]

Something I loved about the blocking of the dinner scene was after Abigail and Rhett left and it was just Ashe, Miranda, and Vane, all 3 are sitting in their same places as during that last dinner with Thomas with Ashe sitting in Thomas's father's place (apt since he was Lord Hamlton's tool) and Abigail's empty chair representing the person not there- Thomas- but whose absence and influence is keenly felt.