The Buccaneers - General Discussion

[Milz]

WETA UK is rebroadcasting this series based on Edith Wharton's unfinished novel. Here's the MT websites' summary page:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/archive/168/168.html

 

Scroll to read Russell Baker's intro: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/archive/168/168e.html

 

The series is on youtube.

 

I watched it when it first aired in the early 90s.  I recall reading at that time that they moved the timeline in the series forward so that it occurs in the 1880s.

 

 

[M. Darcy]

I watched the first episode Saturday!  Or rewatched.

 

A very young Greg Wise!  I think when I originally watched it, the only "famous" person in the cast was Connie Booth.  Now, a lot of the cast is well known.

[Milz]

I watched the first episode Saturday!  Or rewatched.

 

A very young Greg Wise!  I think when I originally watched it, the only "famous" person in the cast was Connie Booth.  Now, a lot of the cast is well known.

 

And not much later,  Mira Sorvino wins the Oscar. I remember I kept wondering if Mira Sorvino was related to Paul Sorvino (I used to watch Law And Order).

 

Do you know which historic homes they filmed at? Some of the exterior shots look like Highclere or Kedleston.

 

i can see Julian Fellowes totally ripping this off to do the Down Abbey prequel (if that will ever be done).

 

Anyhow, I can't understand the mentality of the 'nouveau riche' wanting to be accepted into "society" so badly that they would, essentially, sell their daughters to these titled families. Shoot.....if I had the gobs of money they had, I'd throw my own parties inviting other nouveau.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Milz

[abbyzenn]

The is my first time seeing this.  It was okay but I will watch the whole series.

I hate the fashions - fashions were much better by the Downton era.

Not really crazy about any of the girls.

I agree Milz - I'd take my money and spend it on what I want - which wouldn't necessarily include an English title.

[Milz]

The is my first time seeing this.  It was okay but I will watch the whole series.

I hate the fashions - fashions were much better by the Downton era.

Not really crazy about any of the girls.

I agree Milz - I'd take my money and spend it on what I want - which wouldn't necessarily include an English title.

 

The series is supposed to take place in the early 1880s, so the fashion reflects that late Victorian era. Downton started in the post-Edwardian era. It's been awhile since I read the book, but I think it is set in the 1860s because Edith Wharton based the girls on Jennie Jerome (Lady Randolph Churchill/Winston Churchill's mother) and Consuelo Iznaga (The Duchess of Manchester) and some of the later "Dollar Princesses", like Consuelo Vanderbilt (The Duchess of Marlborough).

 

What's interesting about this series is that we get to see the culture shock the girls experienced when they married into these titled families and their country estates. In the first episode when the girls visit Connie, she says that the houses are cold because they don't have central heat. Ginny and Nan comment about the lack of gas lights. And there was a definite hierarchy and schedule within the family.

[M. Darcy]

 

Anyhow, I can't understand the mentality of the 'nouveau riche' wanting to be accepted into "society" so badly that they would, essentially, sell their daughters to these titled families.

They really really wanted to be a part of New York Society but were totally blackballed.   It was easier to just buy their way into London society.  Both sides really needed each other.  But it worked out well for history - that's how we got Winston Churchill.....and Mary and Edith :-)

 

 

Do you know which historic homes they filmed at?

One of them is Castle Howard of Brideshead fame.

[Milz]

They really really wanted to be a part of New York Society but were totally blackballed.   It was easier to just buy their way into London society.  Both sides really needed each other.  But it worked out well for history - that's how we got Winston Churchill.....and Mary and Edith :-)

 

One of them is Castle Howard of Brideshead fame.

 

It's also how we got Lady Diana Spencer and a whole host of British aristocracy.

 

But like I wrote, if I had the gobs and gobs of money they had, I wouldn't care if Mrs. Astor invited me to one of her parties or not. In fact, I would throw my own barn dance and invite everyone Mrs. Astor snubbed.

 

It's odd isn't it? If you watch enough Brit tv, you begin to recognize some of the homes used in them. Sometimes I think the homes should get a mention in the credits.

[M. Darcy]

But imagine being able to say to Mrs. Astor - suck it bitch, my daughter is a Countess now.   Hmm.  That's probably why I wouldn't have been invited either with my naughty language.

 

 

And not much later,  Mira Sorvino wins the Oscar

Even more important - two years later - Romy and Michele's High School Reunion.

[Milz]

And don't forget Carla Gugino co-starred for a season or two with Michael J. Fox on Spin City and then did those Spy Kid movies with Antonio Banderas

 

You and your foul mouth and I with my meanspiritedness would have thrown the best barn dances in Noo York City if we had the same kind of money Morgan, Carnegie and the Vanderbilts had. 

[Milz]

So Ginny marries Seadown and learns 1. he married her for her money, 2. he married her for her money so he can restore a wind of the house, and 3. he married her for her money. But seriously, did Ginny and Nan really think their father's money didn't make them more attractive, alluring and appealing?

 

Julius always struck me as a creepy, vampire-like creature.

[proserpina65]

But seriously, did Ginny and Nan really think their father's money didn't make them more attractive, alluring and appealing?

 

I think Nan realized that, and Ginny probably did too, but she really was caught up in her own fantasy about Seadown.  Poor deluded girl.

[Milz]

Early in the episode, one of them says that Connie never seems to have any money<------that should have set off warning lights, sirens, and fog horns.

 

As I wrote up thread, if Julian Fellowes ever makes a Downtown Prequel, I can see him totally ripping this series off. Martha as ditzy as Mrs. St. George. Cora has a prettier rival for Robert's title. Alas, the rival's daddy is a couple million poorer than Cora, which makes her less suitable.

[abbyzenn]

I thought last night's episode was the most enjoyable yet.

I just can't imagine why Nan married Julius.  She should have waited for Guy or anyone else or stayed single.  Julius is just creepy and weird.  It's not like she really wanted to be a Duchess or wanted the huge house.

It's funny that the only one of the girls that is happy is Lizzy - she's the only one that married for love.  Well, maybe Ginny was in love but I'm not sure.

[ichbin]

The series is on youtube.

 

It's on Hulu too.

[Milz]

I thought last night's episode was the most enjoyable yet.

I just can't imagine why Nan married Julius.  She should have waited for Guy or anyone else or stayed single.  Julius is just creepy and weird.  It's not like she really wanted to be a Duchess or wanted the huge house.

It's funny that the only one of the girls that is happy is Lizzy - she's the only one that married for love.  Well, maybe Ginny was in love but I'm not sure.

 

Laura said that Nan was still very child like in the way she analyzed things. So immaturity, compounded by being on the "rebound" (in her mind at least),  not wanting to return to Noo York City, and the cute puppy, made Julius' proposal very appealing. Anyhow, I don't think Nan realized that she would have to run the house and would have a bunch of responsibilities. She had that "oh crap!" look on her face when she and the Dowager were going through the conservatory.

 

I think Ginny, like Nan and Connie, were in love with the idea that they would be titled ladies. I think in the book that was finished with the blessing of the Edith Wharton foundation, Ginny becomes one of the mistresses of The Prince of Wales.

[Milz]

Just a reminder for everyone watching this on WETA UK. On April 4, two episodes will be shown, which will conclude the series. After the Downtown Abbey marathon on April 11 and 18, WETA UK will show Call the Midwife.

 

Heh, too bad, they didn't show the conclusion of The Buccaneers after the Downtown Marathon.

[dcalley]

This is on Netflix instant as well but is expiring at the end of the month. I feel like I must have seen this at some point, but I don't remember it now, so I guess I will try to watch it sometime this month.

 

4/2/15: Never mind. Netflix seems to have renewed the rights to it.

Edited April 3, 2015 by dcalley

[proserpina65]

You know, for years I've thought Seadown was played by Mark Strong, only to discover just now that I was wrong.  There goes my "I saw him waaaaay back when" bragging rights.

[Milz]

He was on As Time Goes By. Lionel brings Jean to a cocktail party at Alistair (first time Jean meets Alistair).  It's a very Seadown-like character: detached, snobbish. of course, Lionel and Jean think everyone at that party are superficial idiots.

[proserpina65]

He was on As Time Goes By. Lionel brings Jean to a cocktail party at Alistair (first time Jean meets Alistair).  It's a very Seadown-like character: detached, snobbish. of course, Lionel and Jean think everyone at that party are superficial idiots.

Okay, so I can say I saw him waaaaay back when, then.  Thanks.  :-)

[M. Darcy]

There really are only 4 British actors...

[Milz]

Ginny, Ginny, Ginny.....you know Seadown crawled back to you because 1. your Daddy has money again, 2. Idina is dead, 3. your Daddy has money again, 3. your Daddy has money again, and 4. your Daddy has money again.

[Megan]

I love this mini series so much. I just re-watched it this weekend - Prime has a lot of the 90's Masterpiece series up, Aristocrats, Tom Jones.  I have all these of DVD but I've become spoiled and prefer to watch things streaming, also Prime seems to have all the PBS removed scenes added back, at least on Buccaneers.

And @Milz seems to have been correct, with Fellowes upcoming Gilded Age series. (And funny that he shows up as the Duke of Richmond in Aristocrats)

I love the cast. Especially, Colonel St. George (who I just realized is Brian's father in Father of the Bride, I never connected that until this weekend) and the elder Brightlingseas.

Anyone know what house served as Lizzy and Hector's home? That staircase looks familiar but it doesn't seem to appear in any of the houses imdb tags as filming locations.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Megan

[Harvey]

New series debuts on november 9 on Apple TV

[Snazzy Daisy]

The Buccaneers — Official Trailer | Apple TV+

 

[AnimeMania]

The Buccaneers is an 8 episode Drama TV Series with the first 3 episodes streaming on November 8, 2023 on Apple TV+. The TV Series is based on the unfinished last novel "The Buccaneers" (a term for daughters of America’s nouveau riche) by Edith Wharton. Wharton had 3/5ths of the book written before her death in 1937. The novel was finished by a Wharton scholar, Marion Mainwaring, based on the detailed outline left by Wharton, and published in 1993. The book in set in "The Gilded Age" somewhere after the Civil War (1865) and the start of the twentieth century, a time of great excess and economic plenty. The BBC also created a 6 episode mini-series, "The Buccaneers", in 1995.

Despite the best efforts of England’s finest governesses, these heiresses from New York City are beautiful and untameable, and they are on their way to disrupt Victorian London, in an effort to snag themselves an single English aristocrat, secure a title, and enter into the height of British society. Can a little bit of money allow people to overlook centuries of tradition. 

Christina Hendricks as Mrs. St. George, mother of Nan and Jinny, a social butterfly, her husband amassed a large fortune on Wall Street. She just wants to ensure her children's happiness.

Kristine Frøseth as Nan St. George

Imogen Waterhouse as Jinny St. George

Alisha Boe as Conchita Closson

Josie Totah as Mabel Elmsworth

Aubri Ibrag as Lizzy Elmsworth

Mia Threapleton as Honoria Marable

Josh Dylan as Lord Richard Marable, a repressed English lord swept up in a holiday romance with fiery American heiress Conchita.

Barney Fishwick as Lord James Seadown, Marable’s brother

Guy Remmers as Theo, Duke of Tintagel, English bachelor

Matthew Broome as Guy Thwarte, charming English playboy

[AnimeMania]

[Snazzy Daisy]

The Buccaneers’s Costumes Give The Gilded Age A Modern Twist

[NeenerNeener]

Oh lord, they've given this the Reign treatment, with a dash of Bridgerton.  I don't know if I'm going to be able to watch this all the way through; there's a limit to the number of anachronisms I can handle in what are supposed to be period dramas.

[shapeshifter]

Am I the only one who  — I think during the 3rd episode:

Spoiler

when Nan and Theo dipped their fingers in the light blue oil paint and smeared it on each others' faces, thought they were going to die prematurely of cobalt and lead poisoning? 

The lighting and cinematography is worth the watching. 

I read the reviews comparing it more favorably to Bridgerton, and I agree.
Less porn and more psycho-social stuff.

[AnimeMania]

The Buccaneers    November 8, 2023     Apple TV+    8 EPISODES

Episodes 1-3   Titles and Descriptions

Spoiler

S01.E01: American Poison

A group of young American heiresses are changed forever when they’re whisked across the Atlantic to London.

S01.E02: Women or Wives

Conchita hosts a raucous country house party. Jinny and Lizzy go head-to-head for the same man. Nan reveals a secret.

S01.E03: The Perfect Duchess

At the exclusive Tintagel ball, Nan considers the prospect of becoming a duchess. Conchita struggles with her mother-in-law’s approval.

[Snazzy Daisy]

A 1870s drama with a modern soundtrack.

Nan who is “never meant to be the main character” has (not only one but) two potential suitors but where’s the sizzling chemistry?

This is my first time seeing Kate Winslet’s daughter on screen. She plays a closeted queer character - Honoria.

Oh gosh, I CANNOT stand Conchita. Whining, shrieking and American defiance are her things. Is she supposed to be a firecracker or anti-English?

None of the guys in this show are attractive and charismatic. Even the Duke of Tintagel - "the greatest match in England" is so MEH.

And Christina Hendricks isn’t given much to do.

After 2 episodes, I don’t really care for any of the characters, their marriages or their engagements. Not gonna watch this anymore. Am out. 😣

[NeenerNeener]

8 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

After 2 episodes, I don’t really care for any of the characters, their marriages or their engagements. Not gonna watch this anymore. Am out.

I've made it through 3 episodes  but all it does is make me want to watch the 1995 version on BritBox. The writer for this usually writes for comedies/comedians and it shows. This reminds me of all the things I hated about Dickinson. To take a break from rolling my eyes I looked up the main actresses on the IMDb to figure out where I'd seen them before: Nan was the title character on Finding Alaska, Conchita was female lead on season 3 of Thirteen Reasons Why, and Ginny played Queen Gwynn in The Outpost. 

I wonder if the "gay husbands" plot from the '95 series is going to be replaced by a lesbian sister plot or if they'll do both.

Edited November 9, 2023 by NeenerNeener

[Harvey]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Am I the only one who  — I think during the 3rd episode:

  Hide contents

when Nan and Theo dipped their fingers in the light blue oil paint and smeared it on each others' faces, thought they were going to die prematurely of cobalt and lead poisoning? 

The lighting and cinematography is worth the watching. 

I read the reviews comparing it more favorably to Bridgerton, and I agree.
Less porn and more psycho-social stuff.

Does it give Bridgerton vibes?

[Snazzy Daisy]

2 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I've made it through 3 episodes  but all it does is make me want to watch the 1995 version on BritBox.

Does the BBC version of The Buccaneers have a better storytelling, characterizations and production value than this Apple TV+ version?

Two names stand out for me - Carla Gugino and Mira Sorvino. I may need to check it out. 🤨

[Snazzy Daisy]

‘The Buccaneers’ Showrunner Explains the Meghan Markle & Prince Harry Parallels in the Apple TV+ Show: “There is an Obvious Comparison There”

 

[NeenerNeener]

2 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Does the BBC version of The Buccaneers have a better storytelling, characterizations and production value than this Apple TV+ version?

Yes, IMHO, with the exception that HD wasn't available in 1995.

Edited November 9, 2023 by NeenerNeener

[badhaggis]

1 hour ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Does the BBC version of The Buccaneers have a better storytelling, characterizations and production value than this Apple TV+ version?

Two names stand out for me - Carla Gugino and Mira Sorvino. I may need to check it out. 🤨

You should, it is amazing!!

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

‘The Buccaneers’ Showrunner Explains the Meghan Markle & Prince Harry Parallels in the Apple TV+ Show: “There is an Obvious Comparison There”

That Conchita and her Lord are stand-ins for Meghan Markle and Prince Harry is so obvious that I wonder whether the Royals in (not so) Jolly Old England are discussing lawsuits in 2023. 
Still, somewhat surprising to me was this info from the Decider interview:

Quote

…The Buccaneers creator Katherine Jakeways told Decider…
"all of that is in the book actually.”
Jakeways had previously told Decider that despite surface appearances, she really sought to honor the spirit of Wharton’s unfinished novel. That includes her approach to Conchita’s storyline.
“That’s what’s so fascinating about it. Conchita is described as looking different from — the color of her skin is different from — the Brightlingsea family when she turns up and they disapprove of her.…"

The original "unfinished" Wharton version of The Buccaneers is available as an ebook on The Internet Archive, and actually does validate Jakeways' claim that "all of that is in the book" with Wharton's descriptions of:

Quote

…And her skin was dark, under the powder which (yes, my dear— at eighteen!) Mrs. St George was sure she applied to it;…

and then later:

Quote

…She says the thing is to be in the Prince of Wales's set. That's what all the smart women are after. And it seems that Miss March's friend, Lady Churt, is very intimate with the Prince and has introduced Conchita to him, and he's crazy about her Spanish songs. Isn't that funny, girls?"…

All of this👆 is enough for me to at least watch next week's episode.

Edited November 9, 2023 by shapeshifter

[poeticlicensed]

My beloved Edith Wharton is this? I guess I'm just a purist, but I feel like I'm watching a CW teen girl drama. I am beyond disappointed. While I recognize the effort to include diversity, that never ever would have happened. Girls wearing their hair down, talking back, drinking, meeting with men out of the watchful eye of a chaperone. Swimming? Just no. Edith Wharton wrote about the social customs and mores of the age and their constructions. This is just awful. Awful. I hear Sofia Coppola is working on an adaption of the Custom of the Country. Her updated Marie Antoinette was so well done. This is just bad. I dont think I can make it through episode 2. Too bad. I had such hopes. 

 

[Haleth]

On 11/9/2023 at 9:02 PM, poeticlicensed said:

My beloved Edith Wharton is this?

She did not write this. 

I almost turned it off because the girls are so annoying.  There is no way young ladies who wanted to be accepted in society would behave so vulgarly.  It's true American girls were found appealing for their vivacity, but these girls are too loud, too indecorous, too willing to stand out, and not in a good way.

The Carla Gugino version was much better.

[AntFTW]

I just discovered this show today. I'll start watching soon.

[braziliangirl]

Are the storylines similar to the book? Nan and her mother?

[Ilovepie]

On 11/12/2023 at 4:40 AM, Haleth said:

She did not write this. 

I almost turned it off because the girls are so annoying.  There is no way young ladies who wanted to be accepted in society would behave so vulgarly.  It's true American girls were found appealing for their vivacity, but these girls are too loud, too indecorous, too willing to stand out, and not in a good way.

The Carla Gugino version was much better.

These girls would be annoying in 2023! And I don't know if it's the directing, but the acting in this is atrocious. None of these people are likeable with the exception maybe of Nan's two love interests. I watched two episodes but I'm out. It's not worth my time especially with the Gilded Age to view instead right now. I am so tired of these cheeky modern period pieces.

[AnimeMania]

S01.E04: Homecoming

The girls return to New York for a grand celebration. Nan seeks answers from her family. James begins to manipulate Jinny.

Premiere Date: November 15, 2023     Apple TV+    

[Atlanta]

I watched the first ep and am halfway in ep two. Don't think I'll be finishing this. Wharton must be rolling in her grave. I know critics didn't like the 1995 series, but apparently the ending is similar to what EW planned (I've read that the person who finished it worked with an outline she left before she passed). Of course the book didn't have modern flourishes like the (spoiler tags if you haven't seen the '95 version)

Spoiler

gay duke or abortion storyline--he was an ice cold fish, but no hints he was into men, and no marital rape. The Brightlingseas were poor and always asking for money.  Nan gave Connie money to settle a debt. 

I guess we're not getting Idina, but in the 1995 one we also didn't have Mabel. Lord Richard's sisters were much nicer in that version.

The music takes me out of it all. It doesn't work like it did in "A Knight's Tale," and the pop songs are played orchestral in "Bridgerton." This seems like a very cheap knock-off. The actors aren't bad, but so much is distracting. Where is Conchita's Brazilian accent?  I love Testvalley in the earlier one and her BFF relationship with Nan. That charm is gone here.

[shapeshifter]

S1.E4 "Homecoming" had already dropped when I looked around 10:30 ET. 

Like the other episodes, it had parts that were very good, and there were parts that were unnecessary.

[AnimeMania]

Most Apple and Prime Video shows come out around 9pm ET.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Most Apple and Prime Video shows come out around 9pm ET.

And The Buccaneers apparently is “most,” despite a lot of websites saying for the show, for example, “New episodes land on Apple TV+ every Tuesday night at 9 p.m. PT/12 a.m. ET Wednesday” (Yahoo and The Wrap), and Apple and Wikipedia listing the episode day as Wednesday. 😵‍💫🙃🤔

So I guess this…

16 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Premiere Date: November 15, 2023     Apple TV+

…should have been “Premiere Date: November 14, 2023 Apple TV+”?

Interestingly, it would have dropped Tuesday the 15th in China, where Apple made my phone and laptop. But I have no idea whether this show airs in China.
Still, maybe the news releases for the show are generated in China and the info gets bungled crossing the International Date Line?

The Wrap also shows Apple's Lessons In Chemistry dropping 3 hours later than it does: "New episodes arrive on Fridays at midnight Pacific, 3 a.m. Eastern."

Some of The Buccaneers characters might have had similar confusion when they crossed the Atlantic.
Here's the best I could find:

Quote

…Numerous technical obstacles had to be overcome in creating a universal system of standard time. In 1872, when the first transatlantic cable, the transmission of messages revealed that Paris was half a second further away from London than had previously been thought. Trying to fix a precise difference in longitude between Paris and Berlin, engineers noted that signals were slowed by mechanical and other factors such as the 'non-instantaneity of the transmission of the electric flux'. Despite such technical problems, and overcoming a bitterly fought rearguard action by the French, who eventually abstained on the decisive motions, in 1884, delegates from 25 states met in Washington to agree on the standardization of world time. Sailors had already synchronized time using chronometers set by longitudinal measurements based on the Greenwich Meridian, reflecting British dominance of seaborne mercantile traffic, and this was the standard adopted at the Washington conference, which divided the world into 24 time-zones by longitude, treating the meridian as the zero line, dividing the Eastern from the western hemisphere.…

"The Victorians: Time and Space - Professor Richard J. Evans, Gresham College," Aug 9, 2011.

Transcript:  https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/victorians-time-and-space

YouTube: https://youtu.be/EF73ae419f4

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by shapeshifter

[anamika]

I feel like the show wants us to root for Nan and Guy because they get together in the unfinished novel and the '95 miniseries. But Theo comes across as a nice fellow and didn't Guy want to marry her for her money in the first place? Is it a love triangle?

Seadon is such a repulsive worm and the actor plays him perfectly. I find the stories of Lizzy/Jinny, Conchita and Mabel/Honoria more interesting than Nan's tbh.