The Buccaneers - General Discussion

[Mikay]

*Dusts off account to speak about a Bridgerton-inspired period piece. 🥰

Honestly, I’m not sure how closely the show will follow the previous versions. Either way, I think we’re supposed to believe that Guy had a conversation with her in New York and there was an instant spark. Then his mother died and he had his money concerns, and he wanted to marry Nan because he liked her and she had money. But then she told him she was illegitimate and he had to consider the scandal and that she might not inherit. He decided his feelings were strong enough and went to propose, but it was too late.  

Having written all that out, I’m not sure I really feel or understand how or why Guy is so deeply in love with Nan. The same goes for Theo tbh. He’s a nice guy, but when he confesses his love for Nan, I’m like—-not sure I really buy this connection? The central romances happened so fast without any build up, and I’m not sure I feel the smoldering chemistry needed to sell me on either couple. Speaking of a show that’s clearly an influence, Bridgerton tends to really drag out a couple coming together, so by the time they do it feels a little more earned.

Though this show clearly has things other than romance on its mind like female friendships, complex marriages, societal restrictions on women. I think those elements are much stronger. 

[shapeshifter]

31 minutes ago, Mikay said:

Having written all that out, I’m not sure I really feel or understand how or why Guy is so deeply in love with Nan. The same goes for Theo tbh.

How old are they? If no older than early-to-mid 20s, I can definitely buy the characters' being "in love" — maybe even if a bit older.

[AnimeMania]

S01.E05: Failed Betrayal

Things unravel during a weekend at Guy’s family home, as Nan finds herself feeling torn. Mabel and Honoria get closer.

Premiere Date: November 22, 2023     Apple TV+   

[shapeshifter]

Ugh.

[A.Ham]

Not sure why I am even spending time watching this, pretty sure I am hate-watching at this point. The lead characters are either insufferable or being humiliated. Ugh indeed.

[shapeshifter]

14 hours ago, A.Ham said:

 Ugh indeed.

Thank you.

Up next sometime tonight or tomorrow morning:

• Episode 6: "Time for Christmas"
  "The gang head to Scotland for a Christmas getaway. Lizzy makes a confession. James’ behavior escalates. Nan faces a hard choice."

Can it be any worse than the last episode?

[Haleth]

I thought this was only 4 episodes so I thought I could slog thru to the end. How many more can they drag this out?  Not only are the characters all childish and unpleasant, the acting is awful. Such a waste of an interesting book. 

[shapeshifter]

On 11/28/2023 at 11:59 AM, Haleth said:

I thought this was only 4 episodes so I thought I could slog thru to the end. How many more can they drag this out?  Not only are the characters all childish and unpleasant, the acting is awful. Such a waste of an interesting book. 

A total of 8 episodes, so, 2 more.

I just watched Episode 6: "Time for Christmas."
So weird.

[snarkysnarkerson]

So what’s the deal with the married guy and the governess?

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

A total of 8 episodes, so, 2 more.

Kill me now. 

[TwoBitUsherette]

4 hours ago, snarkysnarkerson said:

So what’s the deal with the married guy and the governess?

I'm glad I'm not the only person wondering this. I can't tell if I missed something while distracted or if this show is kind of awful at explaining character motivations. Maybe both.

[RachelKM]

On 11/17/2023 at 1:04 AM, anamika said:

I feel like the show wants us to root for Nan and Guy because they get together in the unfinished novel and the '95 miniseries. But Theo comes across as a nice fellow and didn't Guy want to marry her for her money in the first place? Is it a love triangle?

I have the same issue. I get what @Mikay is saying and I can see the evidence of this.  But I just feel like we haven't seen enough of this "spark" in their limited interactions for me to buy the angst, especially with Guy being so close with Theo.  

Of course, the interactions with Theo are even more limited prior to their engagement.  But I've actually enjoyed their interactions far more and, since the engagement, think they've shown more chemistry and compatibility.

Of course, I for the introduction scenes with Nan and Guy sort of obnoxious, so that doesn't help. They seemed to be leaning into the manic pixie  dream girl trope in the first half of that first episode, particularly between Nan and Guy (though there was a touch of it on the beach with Theo too). Nan seems to less annoying since learning she's (GASP) illegitimated.  Learning her mom isn't her mom is a thing that would be hard to process. And it's been the thing I've found most  sympathetic about her, both in concept and execution.

Quote

Seadon is such a repulsive worm and the actor plays him perfectly.

Eke, yes.  That scene with Lizzy and leaving her naked was so awful and demeaning.

Speaking if Seadon, what is his title based on? The younger sons of dukes and, I think, marquesses are styled "Lord" but not any of the lower ranks. Also, he has a different last name than Honora whos last name is Marabel as is Richard's.  Did I miss an explanation?

Quote

I find the stories of Lizzy/Jinny, Conchita and Mabel/Honoria more interesting than Nan's tbh.

Yes to all but Conchita.  She's so obnoxious that, while Lord and Lady Brightlingseas are absolute dicks, it's hard to fault them for not liking her.  It's not that I think it's Conchita's fault they don't like her; I doubt anything was going to make them approve of her. It's just that I can't stand her either, so...

I'm three eps in and, so far, the scenes I've enjoyed most have all involved woman interacting with one another absent the men present, i.e. the friendships and sisterly interactions, Mabel/Honoria, the duchess and Nan, etc. 

On 11/29/2023 at 3:46 PM, snarkysnarkerson said:

So what’s the deal with the married guy and the governess?

OMG, thank you.  What is that?  If they hadn't established so vehemently that Richard loves Conchita, I would wonder if they were plotting together to get her money.

Edited December 6, 2023 by RachelKM

[shapeshifter]

On 11/29/2023 at 6:46 PM, snarkysnarkerson said:

So what’s the deal with the married guy and the governess?

4 hours ago, RachelKM said:

OMG, thank you.  What is that?  If they hadn't established so vehemently that Richard loves Conchita, I would wonder if they were plotting together to get her money.

A plot to get Conchita's money while freezing her out so she goes back to NY does make much more sense than what I thought.
The vibe is so weird that I wondered if the governess had been Richard's first lover.

But before the governess left town, I thought maybe she was Richard's mother — which could be why Richard is nicer than his brother.

 

I'm half expecting Theo's mother to reveal that she had already suspected Nan's parentage, but still believed she was the right one for Theo, and so didn't say or do anything until Jinny spilled the tea to James, and James told Theo's mother — and then Theo's mother hoped Theo would step up — which he did — because Theo's mother really does appreciate Lizzy as a person.

But with all the book spoilers leaked here, I guess that's not in the cards/script?

Edited December 4, 2023 by shapeshifter

[AnimeMania]

S01.E07: First Footing

The Brightlingseas host a New Year’s Eve party where the bombshell news is the hot topic. Tensions flare as Theo and Guy’s rivalry explodes.

Premiere Date: December 6, 2023     Apple TV+  

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

S01.E07: First Footing

A tiny bit better in that it we at least got some of the weird loose threads tied up, albeit still into a Gordian Knot.

[RachelKM]

Up to Episode 5 and I'm utterly confused about whether I'm supposed to like Theo.  I barely remember the book. I remember the 1995 miniseries slightly better. But my memory is that the Duke was a total cold fish (or a least that is how my teenaged brain saw him).

Theo has been mostly likable in this version.  So much so that Guy seems llike a total twat having even considered sending that telegram, let alone being pissy about thinking Nan read it and didn't respond how he thought she should.  But then Theo is being a dick in this epi... only to be a decent guy at the end. It seems like an odd choice if Im supposed to see Guy and Nan's feeling for Guy as anything other than shitty.

Perhaps if I thought any of the three of them had actual chemistry I would see this as interesting. But I mostly just find myself annoyed with Nan and Guy and sorry for Theo.  Sure, he was a big enough dick through most of this episode to at least loose the moral high ground for a bit.  But he's still the least offensive party in this triangle.

You know who Guy did have chemistry with? Lizzy.  That scene with the bowl of marshmallow was really good. It might just be the actress. I think she was great with Jinny too and I am utterly agnostic when it comes to her. I pity Jinny's circumstances with Lord Sociopath. But that's about it.  Her hanging out with Lizzy was actually cute. 

Poor Honora. I understand what where Mable is coming from. But give a baby les a break, Mabs. She's excited and this is new.

Also, poor Jean. That must have been awkward and uncomfortable. Here's hoping she finds a nice person, I assume man, who appreciates her.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Up to Episode 5…
Also, poor Jean. That must have been awkward and uncomfortable. Here's hoping she finds a nice person, I assume man, who appreciates her

Reading this👆after E07: First Footing,
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

I think I see where this is going…
Perhaps Jean and Theo will marry? 
But then Mrs. St. George would not become the Mother of a Duchess. In that case, would she still have the means to divorce her philandering husband? 
IDK.
Having myself come of age in the 1960s, I accepted a lot of still-in-place societal rules for women, even as I became aware of their wrongheadedness. 
All these dissatisfied, so-called Buccaneer women are enjoying a lot of wealth gained from the labor of others.
Too bad there were no marriage counselors.

As for tragically beautiful Lizzy with the Crying Eyes:
Generally when a character is seen as irreparably injured, it's like wearing a red shirt on Star Trek.

Edited December 7, 2023 by shapeshifter

[RachelKM]

On 12/7/2023 at 2:04 AM, shapeshifter said:

Perhaps Jean and Theo will marry? 

God, I hope not. At least not this season (is it meant to be a series or a limited series?). There is only one more episode and there has been absolutely nothing thus far to set that up and at present, as of the end of E7, Jane is apparently engaged to Guy. Swapping fiancé(e)s is not a really a thing.  Hell, it's not a thing now. Not that this show troubles itself to make must in the way of sense or demonstrate realistic human behavior.

Good Lord, Nan is insufferable. She is either completely stupid or a willful, shit-stirring drama monger. "What was in the telegram?" Girl, WTF do you think it was? Also, I get that she's been stressed out about Theo learning the truth.  But she's mad at him for not telling her he knows something that was her secret that she chose not to tell him?  Jesus, she's an entitled brat. She just wants an excuse to choose Guy.

And now Guy has chosen to let her go. And it was the first time I've really liked him.  Also enjoyed him with Jean and even more in his last scene with Theo. So I guess I just don't buy his chemistry with Nan.

I still like Lizzy. But Honoria has emerged as the best of the young set. I get what Mable is doing. Hope it works out for her. I get why Honoria is confused.

Jinny is just very sad. I found myself hoping she was taking that carriage to a port and sail away. But, she didn't and she won't.

I hope, somehow, in the end, Jinny and Mrs. St. George find someplace to live away from their respective shitty husbands and Grandma Patty getting baby snuggles.

Edited December 11, 2023 by RachelKM

[AnimeMania]

S01.E08: Wedding of the Season

(Season Finale)

Nan must figure out her path forward. Jinny feels trapped. Mrs. St. George reckons with the state of her family.

Premiere Date: December 13, 2023     Apple TV+    

[shapeshifter]

So this was not intended to be a one season show.

The explanation for the ending actually made sense, but that information was conveyed by 2 characters speechifying rather than an organic revelation, or even more deftly written dialogue.

The editors tried to make the info dump more elegant via splicing, but there's only so much you can do when revelations are reduced to footnotes.

Edited December 13, 2023 by shapeshifter

[RachelKM]

I think I'm supposed to like and respect Nan for her sacrifice. But I just feel sorry and yet a little annoyed with everyone involved... except for her. She has been a selfish brat throughout and Theo has, while occasionally being a momentary jerk, really done nothing to deserve what she's about to do. 

Theo asked her point blank if she loved Guy and she said no.  Once again, because she thought she couldn't have Guy, she led Theo to believe she wanted to be with him. On the other hand, he really should have seen that it couldn't work at the NYE event when it was clear she wasn't as in it as he was. 

Also, what were we meant to think of Nan's trek to his studio? Was she committing to him?  If so, did she mean any of it given the "Love finds a way" schtick as Guy was leaving her at the church?

Speaking of Guy, he has also been selfish, or at least self-involved and self-justifying throughout making him only a bit sympathetic in that he's apparently tossing aside his life to help Nan's sister. But he probably at least thinks it's a good thing and necessary in its own right. So it's maybe not just a case of gallantry for Nan?

Jinny, despite being often an asshole to her sister and friends, was probably the most sympathetic in that situation. At least she decided to leave to protect her baby. And she apologized to Nan and Lizzy.

Lizzy remains pretty great while having almost nothing to do but react to others' and they stories and actions. But she was great with Mabel, however implausibly modern her response.

And yay Honoria and Mable. They are adorbs together. If Mabel hurts her again, I will seek to avenge Honoria. But I sincerely hope Mabel gets her money and tours Europe with Honoria as her "companion." 

I hope Patricia moves in with Nan and Mr. St. George goes home to NY alone. Nan's bio mom can do whatever. I don't care about that story.

[AnimeMania]

The Buccaneers’ Renewed for Season 2 at Apple TV+

[PRgal]

I just found out about this show and have started watching.  Surprised there's no separate thread/board!

[Shermie]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:32 AM, PRgal said:

Surprised there's no separate thread/board!

Well, the entire season generated barely a page and a half of comments, and half of those were about the previous British version. 

Just finished this and ugh, what a sub-par effort considering the cast and the budget for costumes/locations. I didn’t care for the casual modern way of speaking, although the modern music didn’t bother me.

Nan was just a no. Maybe if someone more appealing was cast, I would have understood two good suitors fighting for her. She’s just average looking, and her hair is atrocious - would having it hang there lankly at shoulder length even be allowed in the gilded age? All the other women had curls and updos and other elaborate tresses in keeping with the style/expectation of the times. You could argue that she’s a free spirit who doesn’t follow the restricting ways of style, but she wore the corsets and the cleavage revealing dresses without any problem. And then there was Nan’s personality, intentionally going back and forth, back and forth between two decent guys. Pick a lane, honey, and stop being so damn entitled.

The dresses were pretty and the settings were amazing.

[shapeshifter]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:32 AM, PRgal said:

I just found out about this show and have started watching.  Surprised there's no separate thread/board!

Although I don't know that it would warrant it, with the new board updates here at PT, we certainly could create episode threads next season.

[Shermie]

Episode threads for less popular shows are just unwieldy. You get 3 or 4 posts per ep if you’re lucky. Most people watch the season and post in the final ep thread anyway. I prefer this show just stays with one thread. People who want to discuss the latest ep can post as they go.

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, Shermie said:

Episode threads for less popular shows are just unwieldy. You get 3 or 4 posts per ep if you’re lucky. Most people watch the season and post in the final ep thread anyway. I prefer this show just stays with one thread. People who want to discuss the latest ep can post as they go.

OTOH, people tend to not watch less popular shows as soon as they drop, so a single thread can be confusing. 
And there's the spoilers issue.

But since anyone can start a thread, and anyone can choose to post in an all-season thread, it doesn't really matter too much, especially since, as you pointed out, there won't be too many posts to skim through. 

Plus, it's not like back in the 90s when I would read a page or two of some text book while waiting for a page to load.
Or maybe I'm somewhat wrong about that? 
Do some here have to wait for pages to load?