The Jinx: The Life And Deaths Of Robert Durst - General Discussion

[hendersonrocks]

holyshitholyshitholyshit

 

That ending. I'm dying to know when that interview was taped, and when Jarecki showed it to the authorities. Mr. hendersonrocks's immediate theory was that he must have showed them just this week, but I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

 

(Your move, Sarah Koening.)

[editorgrrl]

I'm dying to know when that interview was taped, and when Jarecki showed it to the authorities.

According to the New York Times, "More than two years passed after the interview before the filmmakers found the audio." And, "They began speaking to Los Angeles investigators in early 2013."

http://nytimes.com/2015/03/16/nyregion/robert-durst-subject-of-hbo-documentary-on-unsolved-killings-is-arrested.html

Edited March 16, 2015 by editorgrrl

[walnutqueen]

Well, that was amusing.  The tricky Mr. Durst forgot about his mic - AGAIN!  hee.  Durst just can't help talking to himself, can he?

 

I hope L.A. has gathered a mountain of circumstantial evidence while waiting to arrest him.

 

I can hardly wait for the trial.

[editorgrrl]

Another New York Times story with the show title in the headline: Robert Durst, Subject of HBO’s ‘The Jinx,’ Says He ‘Killed Them All’ .

Edited to add it was written by Charles Bagli, who's been featured on the show.

Edited March 16, 2015 by editorgrrl

[panthergirl13]

Holy fuck. I still can't breathe after that.

[myname2use4now]

I wonder how far into the back of his head did the eyeballs of Durst's lawyer roll during the last minute of the show? 

[hendersonrocks]

Jarecki said in one of the phone calls that it was before November 3.

 

I couldn't pinpoint when it actually took place, between the not-actually-Madrid trip & the trespassing charge (which he was acquitted of in December)--thank you!

 

So, Chip Lewis--the lawyer from the Galveston case with the beard who they interviewed again tonight--is still his lawyer. It's WILD to me that he actually agreed to be interviewed on tape when he's still representing Durst. In this Washington Post story from this afternoon he's puffing his chest that they took some of the air out of Jarecki's balloon tonight by revealing themselves (this morning) that Durst was charged, and is accusing the LAPD of working in cahoots with Jarecki to make a big PR splash with the charge & finale. Frankly, I can see some merit to that if this interview is months old.

 

But still: YOUR DUDE IS SCREWED.

Edited March 16, 2015 by hendersonrocks

[Morbs]

I guess that's why you shouldn't talk to yourself.  I think Bob wanted this, in a way.  It's kinda like a killer returning to the scene of the crime to watch. 

 

They better have turned over that evidence as soon as they got it and not waited for the doc to start airing

[hendersonrocks]

Well, this is interesting--according to a story the New York Times just put out (with the headline pulled from the last moment of tonight's show), the bathroom mic comments are years old.

They also wanted to preserve a journalistic privilege not to disclose sources or testify in court. Still, Mr. Smerling said in an interview, “We had a moral obligation and an obligation to the families of the dead to see that justice was done.” They began speaking to Los Angeles investigators in early 2013.

 

Near the documentary’s end, the filmmakers were packing up their equipment when Mr. Durst asked to use the bathroom. He did not remove his wireless microphone as he closed the door, however, and began to whisper to himself.

 

More than two years passed after the interview before the filmmakers found the audio.

 

Edited March 16, 2015 by hendersonrocks

[Morbs]

I find that hard to believe since Durst was talking to himself during the first interviews as well when alone on camera.  They probably sat on the most damning evidence to further their publicity and careers.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Morbs

[panthergirl13]

Know who I wouldn't want to be tonight? That retired NYPD detective who thought Kathy Durst just "ran away". 

[missy jo]

Shout-out to the hot mic. It's the real MVP.

[Kostgard]

I too wonder if Durst, on some level, wanted to get caught. Why do the interview? I don't think he gets off on playing games, and the same guilt that compelled him to write the letter to the police to alert them to Berman's body also wants him to pay for what he has done.

I have a hard time believing that they didn't find the audio for two years and the work with the police just happened to culminate in his arrest right before the series finale. I hope they didn't shoot themselves in the foot with this and it allows Durst to get off on some sort of technicality.

[pennben]

I can't escape the notion that this whole documentary has been one big fucking game for Robert Durst. 

 

And I can't also let go of the notion that he still might get away with it:  (i) are we sure the utterances in the bathroom will be admissible in court and (ii) the envelope puts him there, at best, but doesn't necessarily say he pulled the trigger, did he just walk in on his friend after she was already dead, and send the note to alert police so that she didn't rot on the floor.

 

Do I think he did all three murders intentionally?  Absolutely.

Do I think he enjoyed how ever much time it took to make this show and puff his chest and play a game with the interviewer (while blinking throughout that he did it)?  Absolutely. 

Do I think he was aware that his mike was on in the bathroom when he said what he said?  I think maybe. 

Do I think he will be convicted?  I'm not so sure, my first impression is no, depending on evidence allowed in court.

 

I just can't help but to walk away thinking he is playing the most high-stakes fucked-up game of "catch me if you can" that I've ever seen.

[cpcathy]

I hope there is evidence that we don't know about, but I definitely think Jarecki has a "Jink Two--The Murdering Bastard Goes on Trial" on his hands.

[formerlyfreedom]

Yeah, that was a definite "HOLY SHIT!" moment. Nuts.

 

I really wonder if they'll be able to make any charges stick. And also, will Kathie's family ever find out what really happened to her?

[pennben]

Another idea on Durst's ramblings in the bathroom, via twitter (Shawn Ryan, producer of The Shield, other tv shows):

 

There is a way to interpret Durst's "confession" as him articulating how people would react, not as actual confession

 

[Pallas]

A once-in-lifetime documentary "get."  For us the viewers, not only the filmmakers.

Durst's "Claudius goes to the bathroom while Hamlet listens nearby" monologue...I want to know who, to Durst, is the "he" in, "He was right. I was wrong." The obvious and most likely answer is his lawyer. Yet other possibilities might include some unknown confidant, or even Durst himself.  

My best guess is that Durst, watching All Good Things, was fatally provoked by what Jarecki got wrong, or couldn't prove, or consciously fictionalized. That these discrepancies tantalized his ego and his literal-minded, order-obsessed disorder. That making the documentary was, in a way, Durst's attempt to shoot the film: to walk up behind Jarecki's fiction, blow it away, and leave nothing standing but his own lies. 

[Mannahatta]

Well, this is interesting--according to a story the New York Times just put out (with the headline pulled from the last moment of tonight's show), it says that the bathroom mic comments are years old.

 

When Durst was presented with the envelope all I could think was "Check-mate!". He really didn't see it coming. I'm glad the filmmakers included the footage of them figuring out their strategy on how to approach him with this evidence. Too bad the original investigators didn't put that much thought into their respective cases.

 

Interesting article. Thanks for posting it, hendersonrocks. But I still don't understand the legal rationale given for not handing the evidence over sooner. But then everything about this case is so bizarre.

 

Another big question - since Durst had the time and the money, why didn't he immediately flee the country after this second interview?  Was it because he knew he was being watched by the authorities? Or maybe because he felt too old to go on the lam again. (He really looked out of shape, even for a 71 year old, when he was climbing the stairs of his brother's brownstone.)

 

And how macabre - on top of everything else - that he asked to keep the photo of him and Susan Berman. No doubt, he's become very adept at coming up with the lines that an innocent person would say.

[NumberCruncher]

I can't escape the notion that this whole documentary has been one big fucking game for Robert Durst. 

 

And I can't also let go of the notion that he still might get away with it:  (i) are we sure the utterances in the bathroom will be admissible in court and (ii) the envelope puts him there, at best, but doesn't necessarily say he pulled the trigger, did he just walk in on his friend after she was already dead, and send the note to alert police so that she didn't rot on the floor.

I won't be surprised if he gets away with it as well. Even if the mic recording is somehow admissible in court, I can see the defense attorneys excusing them as Durst simply mocking Jarecki's line of questioning. And I agree that the envelope is just evidence that he saw Susan Berman lying dead on her apartment floor, not that he actually killed her. Anyone looking at all 3 cases and all the circumstantial evidence wouldn't have a problem reaching the (correct) conclusion that this man killed all 3 victims, but unfortunately, I can see a scenario where both Durst's wife's case and Morris Black's killing are kept out of the Berman murder trial--even though they're all very much connected.

Edited March 16, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[JR Labrador]

I can't escape the notion that this whole documentary has been one big fucking game for Robert Durst.

 

 

I think Bob's whole life has been a game. To see what he can get away with, to cause his family as much grief as possible, and above all to prove how much more clever he is than the rest of us mere mortals. And yet, clearly, there's enough self-doubt and self-loathing to manifest a deep-seated need to get caught. To finally be made to pay will probably come as a huge psychological release.  I keep going back to that fucked up story of Seymour showing little Bob his mother about to plunge to her death, and how everything that followed was set in motion in that moment. [/snap analysis]

Edited March 16, 2015 by JR Labrador

[pasdetrois]

 

Durst just can't help talking to himself, can he?

 

I had the feeling he was talking to another person in the bathroom.  Only, um, he was alone.  Combined with the groaning, it was really weird.

[missy jo]

Durst, watching All Good Things, was fatally provoked by what Jarecki got wrong, or couldn't prove, or consciously fictionalized.  That these discrepancies tantalized his ego and his literal-minded, order-obsessed disorder. That making the documentary was, in a way, Durst's attempt to shoot the film: to walk up behind Jarecki's fiction, blow it away, and leave nothing standing but his own lies.

 

 

Excellent analysis.

 

I had the feeling he was talking to another person in the bathroom.  Only, um, he was alone.  Combined with the groaning, it was really weird.

 

 

He was even talking to himself in the hotel lobby when he was arrested!

 

I don't think Durst's actions came from a subconscious need to be caught. I think he is a psychopath who thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, and frankly, getting away with three murders, up to that point, had proved him right!

 

Question: His facial tic, the blinking - does anyone know if that has ever been explained? For ex., it can be a side effect of certain medications.

 

The other tells included that sudden burping, that he even referenced on the hot mic in the bathroom (!). Also, when he tugged at his ear and they zoomed in on it. Military and other interrogators know that motions like that can signal a lie. I was watching closely to see if he did it again, but if so it may not have made the final cut. Fascinating. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by missy jo

[TVHappy9463]

Now if only someone could get OJ to confess. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I had the feeling he was talking to another person in the bathroom. Only, um, he was alone. Combined with the groaning, it was really weird.

Me, too. I'm wondering if maybe Bob has multiple personality disorder. One of the personalities is the killer and the other(s) witness the killings and are trying to help cover it up because it would be bad for every personality if Bob was convicted. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist or anything, though. But that was the first thing I thought of when I heard that conversation Bob had with himself in the bathroom......cause that was some major "Sybil"/"Three Faces of Eve"-sounding shit right there.

(and of course, I'm not trying to imply if Durst has multiple personalities that he's somehow not a cold-blooded killer, because HE IS)

ETA: I just remembered Multiple Personality Disorder is now known as Disassociative Identity Disorder. Oops.

Edited March 16, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[FuriousStyles]

I've been obsessed with this series, and yes the last 5 minutes or so saved this episode.  I was SHOCKED when he went into the bathroom and said something to the effect of "Well, that does it, you're caught."  And then he says "killed them all".  

 

With that said, I'm not holding out any hope for an actual conviction.  Surely the LAPD have found more evidence than the letter?  If there is one thing I've learned while watching certain high profile criminal cases play out, is that juries want more than just circumstantial evidence no matter how much of it you give them.

 

The funniest part of this episode for me was when Jareki  and some other guy were talking about whether or not Durst went to Spain, and they were like "yeah he probably went.  He's usually very truthful".  And then the guy behind the camera goes "Are you guys fucking kidding me?"  I was like THANK GOD there is at least one person with a brain in that room.  Durst is a freaking lying serial killer.  I have no doubt he's killed more than the 3 people he's linked to.  His old age and hubris hopefully have done him in.  

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Props to Durst's second wife (from whom he's allegedly now estranged) for staying alive as long as she has. And props to Jarecki & crew as well as Sareb for staying alive after the taping of the confrontation with Bob over the envelopes.

I really hope Bob isn't released on bail. If so, Jarecki, the other crew members, and Sareb might want to get the number of the people behind Douglas Durst's security team; they've managed to keep Dougie from being killed for a long time (and I guess this another obvious perk of having the immense Durst fortune behind you- you can afford protection from Bob that people like Susan could not).

One would think Bob wouldn't get bail since he's an obvious flight risk, but the luck this man has is unbelievable. I don't think Bob Durst is the one who is "jinxed." Those who are jinxed are those whose lives cross his.

Edited March 16, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[biakbiak]

I wonder how far into the back of his head did the eyeballs of Durst's lawyer roll during the last minute of the show? 

 

The second greatest part of the episode was when they handed him the two samples. Even though he came up with a lawyer like excuse, the first reaction was glorious.

[biakbiak]

Yeah I think that Sareb just had one box of hers that he never went through when he called Marc he said he needed a reality check, I imagine though he heard about the cadaever note he might have never seen the original until the documantry or hadn't made the connection. I imagine if he knew he had the envelope this entire time that could have connected Durst to Susan's death he would have either gone to the police or tried to sell the note to Durst, I will give him the benefit of the doubt because he did seem to love susan and kept her boxes for over a decade that it would be the former not the latter.

[bunnywithanaxe]

We still don't know what was on those tapes.  whatever it was may have been the primary reason Jarecki put preserving evidence for conviction at the top of the list.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

With this development, I'm wondering if Douglas Durst is relieved (kid brother is no longer presenting an immediate risk of offing me) and/or more shitting himself (kid brother's end game might be to take me down with him, by showing what I knew about Kathie's disappearance/murder/etc. back in the day). Maybe both.

If Robert really does have brain cancer (as was reported somewhere, I think linked in another thread), maybe he's ready to go out guns blazing. Metaphorically speaking, I hope.

Now I wouldn't take Bob's word alone that he does have brain cancer BUT if he does.....

Perhaps the brain cancer could explain why he'd allow himself to slip up to this degree. I have no doubt he thinks he's smarter than everyone and couldn't wait to get some attention by doing these interviews. But he didn't do any interviews for years. He was able to keep his desire to talk under control. Sometimes people with brain tumors start to do and say things they normally wouldn't do or would know are not okay to do. Maybe the brain cancer finally effected his brain to a point where he could no longer control his need to get more attention, "outsmart" Jarecki & the public, etc. In the taped conversations he had from jail while awaiting trial for Morris Black's murder (articles about which can be found using Google), he knew when to catch himself and not say certain things. I don't think he knows that anymore. He didn't check the mike to see if it was hot despite having a hot mike moment in a previous interview. He even said to Jarecki's face while the camera was obviously filming during the interview that he is "complicit in Kathie's not being here."

Edited March 16, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[bunnywithanaxe]

I guess that's why you shouldn't talk to yourself.  I think Bob wanted this, in a way.  It's kinda like a killer returning to the scene of the crime to watch. 

 

They better have turned over that evidence as soon as they got it and not waited for the doc to start airing

I was thinking, they might have turned over the evidence right away and convinced law enforcement to delay action until they nailed him in the interview. Not just for drama, but for their own safety. If Bob got a whiff that they were not completely sold on his version of things, there might have been a couple of documentarians  missing.

 

[hendersonrocks]

Gawker tries to get clear on the timeline of events shown on tonight's episode & how it leads to today. (Spoiler: STILL CONFUSING.)

 

I also think it's not quite right to label the hot mic moment as his "confession"--there's a long way to go between what was recorded in that bathroom and that.

[pennben]

 

We still don't know what was on those tapes.

 

I assume you are speaking of what else was in the box with the letter that the stepson found. I hear what you are thinking, but I'm not sure how it could work.  How do you foresee those tapes getting into evidence? But good on these guys if they "buried the lead" of the smoking gun on tapes they just gloss over on their show.  I don't see them doing that...they wanted the smoking gun on their show.  And I think they ended with the smokiest gun that they had.

Edited March 16, 2015 by pennben

[bunnywithanaxe]

What would stop them from being introduced? (real question) As far as any of us know, the only person who may or may not have viewed them is Sareb. And As I speculated aloud on another thread, they might have handed the box over right after the envelope reveal, which might have been chronologically much earlier than it turned up in the finished version.

Sorry, to clarify I was talking about the VHS and cassette  tapes stacked in the box with the envelope. The film audio I understand would not fly in court, obviously.

[Morbs]

 

I was thinking, they might have turned over the evidence right away and convinced law enforcement to delay action until they nailed him in the interview. Not just for drama, but for their own safety. If Bob got a whiff that they were not completely sold on his version of things, there might have been a couple of documentarians  missing.

 

I mean the audio of him in the restroom though.  That should have been taken to the police right away..  It looks like they went to police with the letter evidence in 2013, but then held off on taking the audio tapes to the police until the show was on the air.

 

It seems like they admitted they had begun to be afraid of Robert Durst, but then waited to nail him, putting their lives and countless others in danger while letting Durst go free so the arrest could be timed out with the finale.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Morbs

[missy jo]

The second greatest part of the episode was when they handed him the two samples. Even though he came up with a lawyer like excuse, the first reaction was glorious.

 

 

To his credit, he came up with a non-answer in a lot less time than it would've taken me! I've been in PR for 20 years, and those identical handwriting samples were hard to spin.

 

The funniest part of this episode for me was when Jareki  and some other guy were talking about whether or not Durst went to Spain, and they were like "yeah he probably went.  He's usually very truthful".  And then the guy behind the camera goes "Are you guys fucking kidding me?"  I was like THANK GOD there is at least one person with a brain in that room.  Durst is a freaking lying serial killer.  I have no doubt he's killed more than the 3 people he's linked to.  His old age and hubris hopefully have done him in.

 

 

Not a funny documentary, but I laughed out loud. And YES I wonder what his real body count is. There are an obvious three murders that we know about. How many others have fallen by the wayside?

[bunnywithanaxe]

 

 

It seems like they admitted they had begun to be afraid of Robert Durst, but then waited to nail him, putting their lives and countless others in danger and letting Durst go free so the arrest could be timed out with the finale.

As I said on the "Breaking News" thread, I wonder about what else was in that box with the envelope. Perhaps law enforcement already had enough evidence out of that that they could afford to let the filmmakers hang on to their audio, or maybe they knew the way the audio was procured would make it inadmissible in court.

[pennben]

There's lots of reasons that tapes can be excluded from evidence.  Without knowing what is on them, I can't stab in the dark.  We were given no clue that the random tapes in the box mattered at all, only that the envelope did.  If it turns that the tapes are key, I will tip my cap to you..it was something I didn't think of until you brought it up earlier.

[missy jo]

I sure hope jurors in LA are smarter than those numbnuts in Galveston!

[bunnywithanaxe]

I guess I just wondered why we didn't  get some info on what else was in the box. The answer is either that is was useless-- home movies and such-- or that it was was legally important for the contents not to be broadcast. 
 

[biakbiak]

Yeah I don't think the tapes had anything to do with the case, she was working on various projects and Sareb described them as interviews with people and her memorial. It appeared the letter was in a larger manila envelope that probably contained a variety of different correspondance.

 

They mentioned in an early episode that the BH cops sort of ignored Durst in the early stages of the investigation which would explain how Sareb got the boxes after her death they had probably been ruled out as evidence. I mean it is weird that they missed the letter because of the misspelling but it was written before the Westchester County DA reopened Kathie's case and so they might have just looked at the date stamp on the enevelope the completely harmless note inside and moved on, yes not the most thorough of police work but given that even the WC DA didn't know what Susan knew and it was a decade before Black's murder not necessairly ridiculous.

Edited March 16, 2015 by biakbiak

[biakbiak]

I sure hope jurors in LA are smarter than those numbnuts in Galveston!

 

Especially the one juror who was interviewed, who stated he "knew" Durst was innocent in the Gavelston case (dude you ruled him not guilty, not the same as innocent) and that Durst was just unlucky. I mean even if you think he wasn't guilty of first degree murder he acknowledges that he killed Black and dismembered his body, describing him as "innocent" and unlucky is just crazy weird! It wouldn't surprise me if he started doing the media rounds he seemed like the type and if his opinion has changed.

 

I also liked Pirro's reaction to seeing the handwriting comparison. I think it was "son of a bitch!"

Edited March 16, 2015 by biakbiak

[Morbs]

I liked Pirro's reaction too.  Thank god I wasn't the one just presented with the letters like that on camera, I'd probably miss that beverly was misspelled on each.

[bunnywithanaxe]

On a production note, can I just say, this was probably the creepiest ending/ credits I have ever seen since I first saw "The Blair Witch Project"?

 

No lie, I will probably sleep with the lights on tonight. That muted piano... brrrrr.

Edited March 16, 2015 by bunnywithanaxe

[Kostgard]

And how macabre - on top of everything else - that he asked to keep the photo of him and Susan Berman. No doubt, he's become very adept at coming up with the lines that an innocent person would say.

I do think he does care about these people in his own sick, twisted way. It's why he carries around pictures of Kathie years after her "disappearance" and writes the letter to the police about Berman's body so she wouldn't lie there and rot. I think he kills people who get in his way/cause problems and he just sees it as an unfortunate necessity.

[pennben]

 

I sure hope jurors in LA are smarter than those numbnuts in Galveston!

 

Welp, don't hold your breath on LA jurors....cough...OJ....cough.....

[spaceghostess]

What, no bail for Bob's millions to cover? It's about damned time. I was on the edge of my seat throughout the episode, and the payoff in the final scene was chilling and masterfully presented. I wonder if the surfeit of "What should we do/how should we handle this?" conversation was there for padding or if Jarecki, et. al thought it would build suspense. I could have used less of that and more of the reactions of everyone who saw the handwriting samples, especially the Durst lawyer, who went so still he looked like he'd been freeze-framed. 

 

And yeah, "Are you guys fucking kidding me?!" gave me a laugh on par with the Post's RUN FOR YOUR LIVES headline. OTOH, still dealing with the wiggins from "Killed them all, of course."

[FuriousStyles]

Juries in LA arent known for their intelligence. IMO, they come in second only to Florida juries in the "wtf were you thinking" category.

I think Robert is a cold blooded killer. Maybe he did care about his victims, but never as much as he cared about himself.

I cant get over the info little bro Dougie provided about how Robert had several dogs by the name of Igor that he killed, and said those dogs were his way of "practicing". I mean, that is classic psychopathic/killer behavior.

And dismembering a body limb from limb just baffles me. How do you go from never committing murder to being about to tear a body a part with a handsaw. Its like going from 0 to 1 million. Don't know how that juror could think Robert was innocent. Guess it was pure coincidence that the only part of Black's body that could prove or more accurately disprove Robert's story (his head) was the only part that was never recovered.

That is one thing though that I have oddly questioned, is Robert's knowledge of the law/criminal procedure. Would it occur to any other criminal to keep the head? And some of the other things he did to get away with these murders. I can see why he would think he's the smartest person in the room.

[bunnywithanaxe]

 especially the Durst lawyer, who went so still he looked like he'd been freeze-framed. 

 

I thought the same thing, at first. I thought, what a cheesy dramatic ploy, freezing like tha-- and then he gulped.