S03.E07: Walter Taffet

Umbelina · March 13, 2015

Can someone explain why she became wary of Clark, instead of rushing to find him and confide in him about the pen? I didn't catch what tipped her toward the frightened suspicion of him.

Walter Taffet really DOES work for the agency Clark told Martha he worked for, the one Martha planted the bug for.

Not only did Walter show up, instead of Clark, who supposedly was on the case at her office? He comes home that night obviously knowing NOTHING about the pen investigation. Also, presumably Walter Taffet would also be well aware of Clark's pen bug.

So, pretty much, suspicions got a hell of a lot of "proof" and that just opened the door to Martha's other *buried* concerns.

I think another reason people liked this one is that the agents Elizabeth and Philip took down weren't FBI, they were South African. Also, after a bunch of reading about the FBI mole Robert Hannsen, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen?%C2'> Yeah, they were pretty stupid, and if they told that story on this show it would really sound unbelievable.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Umbelina

paramitch · March 13, 2015

You guys, they can't cancel this show, this board is my favorite -- I always end up thinking so deeply about the things you guys post. The show is superb, but for me the commentary is just as good here. Kudos to all.

Favorite exchange of the night: "Why is there an empty Aspirin bottle in the drawer?" "Because you finished it and didn't throw out the bottle."

As the (very witty) recap also pointed out, this was the most marriage-y moment of the episode between Philip and Elizabeth. The cabinet-slamming! The grumpiness! The patient sigh as Elizabeth asked him why he saved empty aspirin bottles! Just absolutely spot-on.

Never thought I'd say this, but it was a great Martha episode. As annoying as Martha can be, I've always thought the actress who plays her does a pretty good job. She knocked it out of the park in this one.

I like Martha, and agree that this was a terrific episode for Alison Wright, who plays Martha. I always think she's excellent (and often, very quietly funny), but here she was just superb in those suspenseful moments involving the discovery of the bug right through to her confrontation with "Clark."

I think this is right - Elizabeth's instructions to Hans were to watch for patrol cars, and to tap twice on the horn and drive away if he saw one. What he actually did was kind of freak out when shit got real, lay on the horn repeatedly, and NOT drive away. So I think Hans is not quite ready for prime-time.

To be fair, Hans did the right thing -- he laid on the horn specifically because Philip was in real danger in that fight and not necessarily a shoo-in to win it. However, I agree that Hans came off as very young and inexperienced here, and this was the perfect scenario to illustrate what he is and isn't ready for.

Reuben, the ANC operative, is an interestingly complex character. I kept going back and forth about him. Against apartheid, good. Willing to be violent, bad. Wanting to protect son from being beat up over a motorbike, good. Beating his kid to protect him from a beating, bad. And so forth. That's one of the things I like about this show. There are few characters that are strictly villains or good guys. Everyone has motivations, good and bad. Everyone has a side, but they aren't always supporting it well or at all.

I was so bothered by that entire monologue he gave. It just didn't make sense to me. Yes, I agree that he needs to keep his son from being teased, but his brutality and coldness over it basically seemed to boil down to "beat them before they beat you," and honestly there was absolutely no logic or justification to his "explanation" for beating his son.

To answer an earlier question posed by Dowel Jones (I think, and I am too lazy to scroll back and look), the reason for the South African op is actually to prevent violence, believe it or not. This Venter guy is actually pro-Apartheid... but he is going to American college campuses, recruiting moles to join the anti-Apartheid movement, and then getting them to do violent and disruptive terrorist actions in order to discredit the anti-Apartheid movement. So the Center found a way to lure Venter out (by importing Ncgogo to act as bait) so that P&E could capture him. As was earlier pointed out, Venter had his own kidnapping van all set for Ncgogo, staffed by the now-aerated South African lady lugging a shopping bag. Elizabeth neatly foiled that with her Bindi shot. It was all very well paced, kind of complex, and beautifully planned. I adored that scene!

Thanks for posting this for those who may not have caught on that the woman Elizabeth shot was definitely part of Venter's team (the bad or "pro-Apartheid" South Africans). I thought the entire sequence was suspenseful and superbly done. (Kudos to Emmerich for a terrific directing job on the episode!). I also loved the ways in which it echoed back subtly to the pilot opening sequence, complete with Fleetwood Mac soundtrack. It ably emphasized how perfectly every single piece must function for these operations to come through.

I don't get why people think Martha is stupid or incompetent. She is neither. Maybe she is or at least was a bit naive but she was never stupid. She was the one who complained that the others were leaving top secret files on the office robot a clear violation of policy. Yes Clarke took advantage of her loneliness but that doesn't make her stupid that makes her gullible.

Thank you for this -- I really like Martha and care about what happens to her. I don't think she's dumb either, she's just lonely, vulnerable, and (as you point out) just a hair's breadth too trusting and gullible. I don't blame Martha for trusting Philip or "Clark" -- I instead find it understandable because Philip is so freaking scary and good at his job that he is able to become this other man and to convince her of what he needs to. His explanations have all come across to me as being pretty believable in context. (Out of context, of course, the entire thing's nuts. But within the world Martha lives in, I've rarely blamed her for not questioning Clark further. He obviously did his homework and was very very prepared and persuasive.)

Agreed that his hairstyle is awful. This show seems to be missing out on one of the classic late 70's/early 80's hair trends: feathering. At least one of the younger characters, the boys in particular, could have easily have some feathered layers going on. About half the boys in my class still had that hairstyle around that time, and all of them looked better than Stan's kid.

I love that you brought this up, as I will never forget how badly I wanted "flybacks" or "feathers," as we called them. I loved the look at the time as a kid and thought it was the epitome of glamor. Those carefully cut layers! The mountains of hairspray! The giant comb in the back pocket! But alas, I had board-straight hair that was thick and coarse as a pony's mane and resisted attempts to hold a curl for more than half an hour -- resulting in many, many bad perms, endless sessions with hair dryer and curling irons, and with a truly mind-boggling amount of hairspray. Good times.

I LOVED the scene when Andholt notices the rattle and they all freeze, because they all got what it meant. It takes a crap-ton of acting skill to play a scene without any kind of sounds. My respect for Richard Thomas as an actor, in particular, was renewed.

I loved the delicacy and tension of that entire sequence as they discovered the bug. Really beautifully done (and I have to second the kudos for Thomas -- I really like his work on the show and am glad he's a regular this season).

There was a really rich vein in this episode of the kind deeply humanizing naivete so many people maintain well into adulthood about love, and family. That kind of "He/she wouldn't lie about that...." Like how Martha can clearly be so terrified that she might vomit, pee or faint all at once, but she can't quite really come to terms with it all yet. Same thing with Stan about Nina, or how he really doesn't have a wife any longer either.

Beautifully put. I thought this as well, and this is one of the reasons I am almost never bored by Stan. Just as we see Elizabeth and Philip navigating humdrum ordinary existences at the very centers of their spy personas, so too do we see Stan losing his hold on his own family by allowing the work to consume him. I would even include what happened with Nina here -- Stan reached out to Nina because he thought he was missing something at home. He wasn't. But he didn't realize that until after he had lost both Nina AND Sandra.

I also want to echo those who enjoyed Emmerich's performance as Stan here, especially in the scene with his son. If only he had given this exact same speech to his wife, but it was (perhaps) too soon and too bottled up within him. Yet that honesty was exactly what wiped the cynicism away from the kid's face and made him care about his father and even to respect him. Stan frequently breaks my heart and he did so here again.

Yes, he sometimes comes across as naive or vulnerable, but that's what I like about the character and his place in this show. Nobody can be a superhero 24/7. With Philip AND with Nina, Stan was naive enough and lonely enough to allow himself to forge relationships where he shouldn't have. But people are people first. Work may be saving the world but it's still work and not quite the core -- not quite life. I loved that he and Philip were once again trading real truths and insights about their lives, making a connection there that was real in spite of all the subterfuge.

So I loved this -- a gorgeous episode that I also hope showed fans that the show's quiet and "slow" suspense can build to absolutely superb payoffs if patience is exercised. All the pieces were in play here (even Hans), and it was rewarding to see the way the chessboard changed.

RedHawk · March 13, 2015

Anderholt (Andholt? Anderhalt?)

I was confused, too, so finally looked it up. The FX website and IMDB list his name as "Aderholt". No first name given on either.

Edited March 13, 2015 by RedHawk

ruby24 · March 13, 2015

Exactly how much time do Clark and Martha spend together anyway? Like one night a week? Some weekends? It just seems crazy that Philip could justify so much time away from home with only the "travel agency" as his cover job, without his kids suspecting anything. Now with all the time with the 15 year old too. And speaking of the travel agency, it's a real business they've set up, right? That they're actually running, while doing all their other activities at the same time? That just seems like SO many things to be doing at once.

RedheadZombie · March 13, 2015

No kidding, that guy is sharp! Question, why did Stan specifically refer to him as "a black guy" when he was talking to Philip? What does that have to do with anything? Casual racism?

I hope not, but if so I will be pissed. Stan has shown no signs of racism, and if he starts now, it will be to muddy up the FBI even more, so the spies seem more likable. I also don't want to hear the argument that Stan may have become racist while working with the white supremacists. There are under cover cops who spend years breaking up dog fighting rings, and I doubt they start beating their dogs in their free time. Stan is FBI, and as much as the show is representing that agency as sloppy and clueless, he received training just like Philip and Elizabeth. Sure hope he was spared the old women and fat hairy men.

Speaking of Elizabeth, I like how well she took the Philip's son reveal. I guess because it explains more about Philip's recent behavior. I'm just gonna assume he mentioned that he didn't know about the so-called son until fairly recently, and possibly added he didn't know if Irina was lying or not. I would love it if Elizabeth was the one to find out that there was no Mischa Jr., and to struggle between her Gabriel and Philip. I like to think that if there's any part of him she understands, it's how incredibly deeply he loves his children, and perhaps she won't appreciate Gabriel using that specific manipulation technique on him, since she can see how it's affecting him at an already stressful time. That might be a good moment for her to rethink The Paige Project.

I'm hoping the same thing, but I'm definitely hoping that Elizabeth is not torn, and remains loyal to Philip. If she chooses Gabriel over Philip in this situation, I'm going to have a problem with her. I need Elizabeth to prioritize her family over her country, at least once.

There are so many directions they can take with finding the bug. That is a great storyline, and I love when this show focuses on quiet action like that as opposed to the shootouts and violent interactions that superheroes Philip and Elizabeth always seem to win.

I'm loving this bug storyline. I think it was really brave of the show to plant that bug in season one, and prolong the suspense until season three. So many shows would have forgotten the SL altogether, or written the reveal in the first season finale. I love tiny clues planted over years - kind of like Game of Thrones, as compared to make it up as you go along - kind of like Lost.

beeble · March 13, 2015

No kidding, that guy is sharp! Question, why did Stan specifically refer to him as "a black guy" when he was talking to Philip? What does that have to do with anything? Casual racism?

It is great to see how much times have changed. Stan is about the age of my parents, and that generation was NOT brought up to be color-blind. As an earlier poster commented, this was a time when affirmative action was still in early stages, and (like with women) much of the hiring appeared to be "tokenism" even if the person was much more qualified/better educated/etc than white men who were already working in the office. I definitely noticed this agent because we hadn't seen an African-American agent yet. (We certainly haven't seen any women agents yet.) And I'm sure that if we were to delve into the FBI of 1982, we'd find plenty of FBI agents who would have referred to him as "colored" without batting an eye. They probably would have smoked as well, but that's another issue.

Chaos Theory · March 14, 2015

Exactly how much time do Clark and Martha spend together anyway? Like one night a week? Some weekends? It just seems crazy that Philip could justify so much time away from home with only the "travel agency" as his cover job, without his kids suspecting anything. Now with all the time with the 15 year old too. And speaking of the travel agency, it's a real business they've set up, right? That they're actually running, while doing all their other activities at the same time? That just seems like SO many things to be doing at once.

As far as the travel agency goes: you'd be surprised how little time "the bosses" need to actually be there if they hire good people to keep the place running. My father used to work for a small ice company and his boss basically went on month long vacations. (or maybe he was a spy?) and left him in charge. All you need is someone you trust to keep the business going.

As far a Martha. I don't really think there is any set number of days. A few times he said to Elizabeth, "I think I am going to check on Martha." Or something to that nature. I think he sees Martha whenever he thinks he needs to. Maybe a couple times a week...sometimes less sometimes more. The kids have probably noticed by now. Paige even asked Elizabeth of she thought Philip might be cheating on her. I think Henry and Paige are just used to the late hours their parents put in and not see it as anything unusual at least until now. Paige is starting to see things clearer which is both good and bad.

RedHawk · March 14, 2015

I don't think it has been mentioned yet but obligatory 80's reference: Who Shot J.R.?

There was also a commercial for Orville Redenbacher popcorn when Stan was sitting at home, just before Sandra and Matthew arrived. We heard Orville talking about his "buttery-flavored popping oil".

Stan only downgrades to naive chump when he cares about or loves someone. It seems like as soon as someone gains access to that very carefully guarded ground, he stops viewing them with anything other than loyalty and love.

Which will make it very interesting when/if Stan realizes who Philip really is.

Archery · March 14, 2015

Walter Tappett is from the Office of Professional Responsibility, or OPR, which is the Justice Department's version of Internal Affairs. OPR investigates specific instances of alleged misconduct.

Clark claims to work for a secret oversight team, connected in some way with security and classified information.

I think Stan referred to Aderholt as a black guy because Aderholt is a black guy. Not every mention of race is racism.

RedHawk · March 14, 2015

I think Stan referred to Aderholt as a black guy because Aderholt is a black guy. Not every mention of race is racism.

I think other posters' insight into why Stan might have said it has been worthwhile. It's a script. Dialogue choices are deliberate. I had not recalled how unusual it was then for a black man to work as an FBI agent. Someone mentioned that Stan's comment about it might mean that he was using it as a shortcut to say, even explaining to himself, "Because he's black he has to try harder so maybe that's why he seems to be trying so hard".

BW Manilowe · March 14, 2015

Walter Tappett is from the Office of Professional Responsibility, or OPR, which is the Justice Department's version of Internal Affairs. OPR investigates specific instances of alleged misconduct.

Clark claims to work for a secret oversight team, connected in some way with security and classified information.

I think Stan referred to Aderholt as a black guy because Aderholt is a black guy. Not every mention of race is racism.

The guy from OPR was Walter Taffet, with 2 F's--just like the ep title; not Walter Tappet, with 2 P's.

And the new FBI Agent's named Aderholt, not Anderholt or anything else.

dr pepper · March 14, 2015

That was the neatest van escape since the old Mission Impossible series.

dr pepper · March 14, 2015

No kidding, that guy is sharp! Question, why did Stan specifically refer to him as "a black guy" when he was talking to Philip? What does that have to do with anything? Casual racism?

I think it was "he's black so he feels he needs to come across as a really hard worker, and i understand that, but he's getting on my nerves".

btw, did the woman Elizabeth shot have an accent? Was she not a random bystander but the South African guy's support?)

She did have an accent and it did sound south african. I think Elizabeth ask for the time so as to hear her speak.

SlackerInc · March 14, 2015

Yeah, I was wondering why she was so panicky. If she believes Clark then I'm assuming she would've expected him or his office to intervene on her behalf if she was caught. I'm going with the idea that a part of her always knew something was hinky with Clark and now that the bug has been found she's starting to question her entire relationship.

Yeah, that seemed like a continuity error, or an implied retcon. Martha played the whole thing, from the moment she saw what was going on, like she knew she was in deep doo-doo, as in major prison time, if she didn't hide/destroy the evidence. We know that's actually true, but she shouldn't. She has never shown any sign of thinking Clark might be a spy. She's trying to take in a foster kid with him! And she almost put his name on a job application until Clark's "sister" talked her out of it just in time.

I appreciate your fanwank that she always knew something was hinky with him, but I would have liked this depiction a lot more if they had set it up better by showing her starting to suspect "Clark" was a spy, but basically deciding she would rather be a spy's accomplice than to have to upset the apple cart and destroy her career and her reputation and look like either a traitor or an incredible idiot. To do that, though, they would have had to ditch some of the other plots I referred to above.

I think Stan referred to Aderholt as a black guy because Aderholt is a black guy. Not every mention of race is racism.

Oh, sheesh. Y'know...there really are some people who see racism everywhere, even when it is not warranted. But there are also people who don't see it anywhere, unless it is super blatant like someone sporting swastikas or saying the N-word. The reality is that racism lies on a spectrum, and what Stan said was racist. Not KKK racist, but still racist nonetheless. If Aderholt had been at the party Phil and Elizabeth attended with various FBI coworkers attending, and Phil asked "so wait, which one was he?" and Stan responded "the black guy" (assuming there weren't any others), that's not necessarily racist. But when you are complaining about how someone bugs you, and then you just throw in a superfluous, completely non-relevant mention that the person you are complaining about is black, then yeah: that's racist. But that's also realistic: Stan was born, presumably, in the 1930s, and there just aren't that many white men of that generation who aren't at least a little racist.

Edited March 14, 2015 by SlackerInc

DrSpaceman · March 14, 2015

My opinion is Elizabeth is playing Phillip just like she is Paige. Her "I should have told you about my Paige conversation", or whatever it was, I don't think was sincere in the least bit. She just knows she had to say something. She is going to keep working Paige and Phillip.

will be interesting to see what happens with Martha now. I am still a little fuzzy on that storyline and her reaction, will just keep watching and see what happens.

stillshimpy · March 14, 2015

My theory on this is that it wasn't Elizabeth who needed to hear the accent, it was us, the audience.

Aha! Good point and probably the most likely explanation.

I think Stan referred to Aderholt as a black guy because Aderholt is a black guy. Not every mention of race is racism.

In life that is true. Realistically refusing to ever acknowledge someone's ethnic or cultural background is problematic in that it denies that person's life experience. However, it doesn't work quite that way when it comes to written dialogue within a script. I know that I always analyze the characters on TV as if they are real people, like when talking about Stan's back-story I speculate on what impact it has on him now. However, he's a fictional construct, purposefully made.

His words are chosen for a purpose and to illustrate something. It was in the script for a reason. We, the audience, already know that Aderholt (gods, god and wizards bless you, RedHawk that name was taking on more and more letters every time I saw it posted) is African-American, so we wouldn't need any identifying characteristics like, "The redhead" etc. That dialogue was chosen to illustrate something about Stan.

Considering that it is supposed to be the 80s and Stan did do deep-cover work with the KKK, it is both significant that he used the most PC term that existed at that time, by the way. It's still significant that he felt the need to make a distinction though.

Back to the scene with Stan's son, Noah Emmerich did a great job directing a challenging episode (that kidnap scene was great and I personally enjoyed the pan down the exterior of the Jennings house at the top of the episode), but he did a fine acting job too. Stan both revealed and couldn't reveal things to his son, but he was trying. When his son asks what the man Stan put away did, poor Stan fell back on his lifescript of "Bad" and it was really moving to me. I didn't think he was simplifying it for his son either, I think he just finds it painful to try and enumerate what the guy did (did anyone catch the name, by the way?)

Can I just point out that Martha is also nowhere near a doormat? I mean, Philip's had his hands full managing her expectations and her standards for what will constitute their relationship. He joked (and wasn't sure he was joking) that he could just go home one day and find a foster kid there.

A big part of Martha's entire characterization has been that whereas she's loving and perhaps too trusting, she's also assertive and whereas she might be lonely, she's also very, very far from a doormat and has kept Clark on his toes constantly. She's in love, she's not in anyway pathetic. Phil has had to scramble on multiple occasions to keep her, not the other way around.

Edited March 14, 2015 by stillshimpy

AllyB · March 14, 2015

With regard to Martha I understand her entirely. For years I was married to an alcoholic and I can feel the parallels with her denial of the obvious and the eventual acceptance of what had always been obvious. With me my husband had been sober for years and when I got the first clues that he had started drinking again I was so desperate for it not to be real that I was willing to accept the flimsiest of explanations. If my husband's excuse could potentially be true, no matter how unlikely, then I believed him. And that's where I've always seen Martha. Of course Clark's story and actions make no sense but they just might, potentially be plausible. It isn't completely impossible that he's lying, so without even knowing that she's doing it. Martha has been clinging to that fraction of a percentage of a possibility.

Eventually in my life something really awful happened that woke me from my denial. I could see then that there had never been any "clues" that my husband was drinking, there were just 100% obvious examples that I allowed him to explain away because it was easier. But even then I couldn't quite get my head to accept what that meant for my life. I sort of mentally detached from it and kept 'gathering evidence' in order to be able to eventually act. And that's what has happened to Martha in this episode. The situation has caused her a trauma which despite causing massive emotional trauma, is also giving her the ability to assess her situation like someone outside it would and that's let her see what she has purposefully ignored for so long. She's now got a part of her looking at her situation from the outside. She tested Clark when she demanded to see his apartment straight away. But instead of simply reassuring her and making her feel bad for doubting him, which is what would have happened the day before, the detached part of her is halfway to figuring that Clark having a genuine apartment all ready for her to see could actually mean the opposite of reassurance. Of course rather than get her head around the fact that her recovered alcoholic husband is no longer recovered, which is life shattering but actually an everyday occurrence around the world, Martha has to realise that her fellow government employee husband is actually an enemy spy and her whole relationship with him, including her meetings with her in laws, were a ruse to use her as an unwittingly traitorous asset, which is utterly fantastical. I see Martha going through complete mental turmoil here but it's absolutely believably spot on from my perspective.

RedHawk · March 14, 2015

I appreciate your fanwank that she always knew something was hinky with him, but I would have liked this depiction a lot more if they had set it up better by showing her starting to suspect "Clark" was a spy

It's not at all fanwank to have a character live in a state of denial and then suddenly have her blinders fall away. Happens in real life all the time, as AllyB posted above. Martha has over-ridden her better instincts many times in her relationship with Clark. She knows it's weird to have a part-time secret marriage, and even more out of line to put a BUG in her own boss's office and to give Clark top-secret files. She just didn't allow herself to put it all together.

I saw Martha give us evidence she knew things were off-kilter. Pushing Clark to the altar and toward fostering a child was her (subconscious) way of taking control of a situation where she felt uncomfortable and out of control. IIRC in the early episodes, she did show discomfort about his activities and what he was asking of her. Then she began to work with him, like when she offered to bring home the files. The other side to this is that by giving him what he wanted, she manipulated him to get what she wanted.

When the bug was found she didn't suddenly think, "OMG, Clark is a KGB agent!" I felt that at first she just saw she was losing what made her a valuable wife/asset to him, which first began when she realized she would no longer have easy access to the top-secret files. I saw her first go through a stage where she realized her marriage was in danger. She saw their complicity exposed, their marriage brought to light, etc. After that, she then put the clues together and she realized that Clark might not be who she believed him to be and she'd been duped into doing something very wrong.

At last she is following her true instincts. She is right to suspect him, even fear him. She touched her gun to reassure herself that she had some protection. She lied to him about several things, such as leaving her purse at work. She wants to get ahead of the situation before he realizes she no longer trusts him. Martha is NOT stupid and I can't wait to see what happens next.

Edited March 14, 2015 by RedHawk

stillshimpy · March 14, 2015

It's not at all fanwank to have a character live in a state of denial and then suddenly have her blinders fall away. Happens in real life all the time, as AllyB posted above. Martha has over-ridden her better instincts many times in her relationship with Clark. She knows it's weird to have a part-time secret marriage, and even more out of line to put a BUG in her own boss's office and to give Clark top-secret files. She just didn't allow herself to put it all together.

Precisely. There's a part of Martha that must have realized, long ago, that there was no reason on Earth that Clark wouldn't just pass her off to another agent within his office rather than "we're secretly married, which is a -- fairly suspicious and unbelievable -- infraction, so let's compound the deep shit we'd be in if found, by continuing to work together." That's always been a huge, honking neon sign.

Clark could have said, "I'm in love with you....so I'm going to have you work with Agent Other Fellow from now on...." The whole "we have to be secretly married" thing is something she chose to put blinders on about, because it might really be based in policy, but anything beyond that is something that Martha has engaged the Willful Denial Drive on from that point forward.

Presumably we saw the beginnings of her moment of clarity. Also, Clark playing her that cruel tape was also such a jerk move -- when she was feeling bad about bugging Gaad, since he was a good guy -- is such a classic, abusive "well now, look what you've made me do to hurt you..." .

No man alive, with even one decent bone in his body, would have played that tape for his wife. On some level, Martha does know those things, because she really isn't even close to stupid. She was just in love and we're all a little blind to the faults of those we love in the honeymoon portion of a relationship. It's just Martha was a lot blind.

I'm no biblical scholar (and boy is that ever an understatement), but I think there's something about Scales Falling from Eyes, or something so it's a really, really old "fanwank".

sistermagpie · March 14, 2015

Yeah, that seemed like a continuity error, or an implied retcon. Martha played the whole thing, from the moment she saw what was going on, like she knew she was in deep doo-doo, as in major prison time, if she didn't hide/destroy the evidence. We know that's actually true, but she shouldn't. She has never shown any sign of thinking Clark might be a spy. She's trying to take in a foster kid with him! And she almost put his name on a job application until Clark's "sister" talked her out of it just in time.

I can believe she'd be terrified even if she still trusted Clark in that scene. Because regardless of whether she knows he's a spy, nobody wants to be outed as the office snitch to their boss. So I took the first moment as pure panic and just not liking doing this anymore--and only later she started to think something was actually wrong when Clark knew nothing about it and it wasn't immediately kind of downgraded to an interagency thing. Martha, like Hans, wasn't really prepared for the reality of the bug being discovered even when she was convinced it was the right thing to do. And that emotional reaction fueled her suspicion--would a guy who loved her really put her in that position? This is a moment where all her doubts were there and all her justifications suddenly seemed like potential illusions.

But that's also realistic: Stan was born, presumably, in the 1930s, and there just aren't that many white men of that generation who aren't at least a little racist.

It would honestly be unrealistic for Stan to not be racist at all. And the FBI certainly would be--it's not a coincidence they have all white agents, made jokes about Amador being a token and Martha has the ladies' room practically to herself. Stan's always going to automatically see Aderholdt as an "other." But like I said, I think his line is racist in ways that aren't easily understood because the whole subject is so fraught. If asked he probably couldn't even articulate whether he's saying he thinks Aderholdt's coming on too strong to prove himself because he's black, or whether he's being sympathetic to that, or if his race makes his reaction bad or neutral. Even today in a situation where someone's annoyed with a co-worker I can easily imagine the person wanting to put any racial differences out right away just in case it matters--or they might work hard to avoid it. In this case his race probably is relevant in that Aderholdt knows he's the only black man in the office, he no doubt has always had to be twice as good as everyone around him to get ahead and now that puts him in the awkward position of being not only the only black man in the office but the best agent. Can these white guys deal with that? I think Stan, from what we've seen, ultimately can, but if he's honestly working through his feelings on it he'd be wrong to leave out his race, if only to himself. It makes it even more realistic--if also a bit icky--that he bounces that part off against his white bff as well.

I actually tweeted something about how I thought the meaning of the line was that "race is always a thing in the US" and the producer favorited it--which doesn't mean it's the "correct" interpretation but I think they did mean for his line to echo the quagmire that the subject is. I thought it was a fantastic counterpart to all the characters who were self-consciously making statements about the subject, from Todd to Hans to Elizabeth to, most obviously, Paige.

My opinion is Elizabeth is playing Phillip just like she is Paige. Her "I should have told you about my Paige conversation", or whatever it was, I don't think was sincere in the least bit. She just knows she had to say something. She is going to keep working Paige and Phillip.

I think she was completely sincere and wouldn't have apologized otherwise. She doesn't need to play Philip. She's stated her intentions and he can get on board or not. I think apologizing was personal rather than professional--and if she was playing him he probably would have caught it and not made his own confession. One of the good things about their relationship is how hard it is for them to play each other for long.

Iirc, in the podcast someone in production said that for them that was the big bombshell, that Elizabeth apologized about something. Because Elizabeth is never wrong.

Clanstarling · March 14, 2015

I was so bothered by that entire monologue he gave. It just didn't make sense to me. Yes, I agree that he needs to keep his son from being teased, but his brutality and coldness over it basically seemed to boil down to "beat them before they beat you," and honestly there was absolutely no logic or justification to his "explanation" for beating his son.), and it was rewarding to see the way the chessboard changed.

I may not have been listening closely, but I thought the South African KGB asset wasn't talking about his son being teased - but rather, assaulted - perhaps killed - by someone stealing the motorbike from him. His frustration seemed to be that his son didn't understand the brutality of their situation in South Africa, and therefore he needed to toughen his son up to protect him.

Which, of course, resonated with Elizabeth.

I got a little lost during the final scene (thank you to everyone who helped all of us confused posters) - but I thought Elizabeth's trainee honked because he was instructed to if he saw a cop - but then didn't drive away, as he was supposed to do. Which made me think he'd get captured - and being very new to the game, would be a danger to them.

Edited March 14, 2015 by clanstarling

shura · March 14, 2015

Maybe he should have named his son Sue ;).

I think Stan referred to Aderholt as a black guy because Aderholt is a black guy. Not every mention of race is racism.

In life that is true. Realistically refusing to ever acknowledge someone's ethnic or cultural background is problematic in that it denies that person's life experience.

I used to work at a company that was growing and we had to interview a lot of people. The HR did a quick instructional meeting with us, and one of the things that I got out of it was that it's a huge no-no to mention a candidate's race, ethnicity, religion and anything like that in any context, even at a dinner conversation. The idea is that those things have nothing to do with the job, and if the candidate is not hired, they might start thinking "hmm, they brought up my race, and then didn't make an offer". It's a lawsuit waiting to happen. I'd never thought of it before and it really stuck with me, so maybe that's why Stan's line stood out for me.

Edited March 14, 2015 by shura

RazzleberryPie · March 14, 2015

I don't think Stan referring to that agent as 'the black guy' was racist in 1982 terms, especially in a conservative DC office. The Black Guy, The Woman, The Jewish Guy, The Oriental (yes, I said oriental vs Asian), etc. is rude today, but wasn't then. Everything military and government had been White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Male for so long, anything else was new and noticeable.

In 2015, we know it is inappropriate and rude to refer to someone by their race, gender, ethnic origin, sexuality, etc., as their primary identifier, instead of seeing them as a person who happens to be black, female, Irish, gay, etc., but in 1982, norms were different.

BTW- - best episode of the season, IMO. Suspense, action, character interaction, and no skeevy Kimmie plot line. I'm loving Martha lately, and the whole drama over Paige is intriguing. Stan has the only realistic storyline (having a mid-life crisis affair and then regretting the aftermath), and why no one has noticed that Henry would be a much better spy than Paige makes me want to scream. Henry is sharp as a tack, resourceful, cute enough to appear innocent, yet still finds a quiet, unnoticable way to get what he wants, all while flying under the radar. Sign that boy up, Comrade.

mattie0808 · March 14, 2015

why no one has noticed that Henry would be a much better spy than Paige makes me want to scream. Henry is sharp as a tack, resourceful, cute enough to appear innocent, yet still finds a quiet, unnoticable way to get what he wants, all while flying under the radar. Sign that boy up, Comrade.

I KNOW!!!!

The kid reconned his neighbors because they had something he wanted, repeatedly broke in to their house, used the video game (and apparently occasionally ate their food), and snuck back out and home without anyone noticing until he made a mistake by falling asleep. Then, whether he was being purposely manipulative or not, played his parents PERFECTLY to avoid some really bad scene/punishment. That alone ought to tell them something, lol. Of course, there's more they don't know -- Henry saved his and Paige's behinds when she stupidly hitchhiked and had beers with a creeper. And he's, ummmm, doing recon on his hot, newly single, former neighbor. The kid's got skills. And, because he's younger than Paige, isn't at an age when he has strong political/religious/socio beliefs (or any, that we've seen), and so will be much more amenable to joining the great Red Army. ;) Someone alert the Center!

Edited March 14, 2015 by mattie0808

beeble · March 15, 2015

AllyB - you made a great point about Martha. Denial is denial, and it can take many forms.

stillshimpy -

No man alive, with even one decent bone in his body, would have played that tape for his wife. On some level, Martha does know those things, because she really isn't even close to stupid. She was just in love and we're all a little blind to the faults of those we love in the honeymoon portion of a relationship. It's just Martha was a lot blind.

Absolutely. Somehow, Philip and Elizabeth have learned about emotional intelligence enough that they know how well to play somebody's vulnerabilities. Philip has completely screwed with Martha's sense of worth. She is good at her job but she has terrible taste in men - she was with the agent who treated her badly (the bald one killed by Philip) and now "Clark".

Philip has the harder job, I think. Elizabeth goes out and sleeps with her marks, and occasionally she kicks ass, but Philip has to really manipulate people and continue to pretend as though he cares, and that is exhausting when you really don't give two shits about these people. I think he is going to become more protective of Kimmie in the long run. (I bet he is actually wondering how well she did on her math test.) If I had Philip's job, I'd lose all sense of who I was, and it would make parenting nearly impossible.

Edited March 15, 2015 by beeble

Archery · March 15, 2015

Oh, sheesh. Y'know...there really are some people who see racism everywhere, even when it is not warranted. But there are also people who don't see it anywhere, unless it is super blatant like someone sporting swastikas or saying the N-word. The reality is that racism lies on a spectrum, and what Stan said was racist. Not KKK racist, but still racist nonetheless. If Aderholt had been at the party Phil and Elizabeth attended with various FBI coworkers attending, and Phil asked "so wait, which one was he?" and Stan responded "the black guy" (assuming there weren't any others), that's not necessarily racist. But when you are complaining about how someone bugs you, and then you just throw in a superfluous, completely non-relevant mention that the person you are complaining about is black, then yeah: that's racist. But that's also realistic: Stan was born, presumably, in the 1930s, and there just aren't that many white men of that generation who aren't at least a little racist.

Respectfully, I've been a black person for more than 47 years, and I'm pretty comfortable with my ability to place comments on the racism spectrum. I just didn't think that Stan' s inclusion of Aderholt' s race was hostile, condescending, or coming from a place of power. It just was a fact, which we nowadays do notice but don't verbalize. Based on its tone I would not, personally, label it racist.

I wonder, if Martha doesn't suspect Clark of being KGB - and I'm not sure there have been any clues in that direction except for the basic fact that she works in the counterintelligence unit- then what does she suspect him of? Clearly she suspects something, as she lied to him and basically challenged him to come up with an apartment. We know his life is a lie, but what on earth does she think?

Umbelina · March 15, 2015

Good question.

At first I think she just felt something was wrong. However, she DOES work for the FBI, she's not your run of the mill store clerk who somehow has a connection that's valuable to them, ala Elizabeth's mark from AA. I think it has to at least cross her mind that Clark is from an agency hostile to the USA, and the KGB would probably be first on her list. She's shown awareness of security before.

She may be close, if not there, about Clark.

mattie0808 · March 15, 2015

It's interesting, I didn't think much of Martha's immediate reaction (panic in the bathroom). There's a reason why it takes the longest, most detailed target cultivation to get that pen in Gaad's office...there are very few people who would be willing to take that on, even if they had no reason to think there was something suspicious behind it. Martha doing it gets her labeled as a rat, someone who is willing to sell-out her immediate colleagues, and her job and career at the least are screwed/completely changed forever once she's found out. And even if she thinks that everything happening in the office is simply the result of complacency -- leaving the documents around, etc. -- Clark was at least hinting there was a mole in Gaad's unit (right?), and her colleague/ex was murdered. If there is someone there purposely doing wrong or selling them out, you have to at least worry a little bit about what will happen to you once everything comes out.

After the bathroom and surviving the bug sweep, I think Martha truly expected to be contacted somehow, some way, by Clark or people in his unit with some instructions for next steps (even if it's just Clark telling her to keep up with the charade because they plan to run a normal investigation -- as if they didn't plant the bug themselves -- to see if that shakes anything loose from the group). But not only does that not happen, a guy is sent to do what is apparently a REAL investigation, and Clark acts as though he knows absolutely nothing, even after he knows she's upset and something has made her question him enough to demand to see his apartment. Her not telling Clark was one of the smartest moves she's made...it's almost certainly too little too late regardless, but at least her antenna were up enough once the bug was found.

Edited March 15, 2015 by mattie0808

March 15, 2015

I too can't understand why Martha acted as though she saw through Clark right from the time the bug was found. The scene with her wistful look at the Kama Sutra book and her gun made that clear. She was upset about Clark's identity, not about getting caught bugging her boss for internal reasons. But why?

I also don't understand how Philip doesn't KNOW his cover is blown. She was so transparent.

I don't know if the directing of this episode was that terrific. I was so confused over those things and the whole ending. I had to come read here to find out what happened there.

The first thing that popped into my mind was Alice Cooper at the end, though a Ramone is probably closer.

RedheadZombie · March 15, 2015

Can I just point out that Martha is also nowhere near a doormat? I mean, Philip's had his hands full managing her expectations and her standards for what will constitute their relationship. He joked (and wasn't sure he was joking) that he could just go home one day and find a foster kid there.

A big part of Martha's entire characterization has been that whereas she's loving and perhaps too trusting, she's also assertive and whereas she might be lonely, she's also very, very far from a doormat and has kept Clark on his toes constantly. She's in love, she's not in anyway pathetic. Phil has had to scramble on multiple occasions to keep her, not the other way around.

I agree. It took me a long time to like Martha. Mostly because their sex scenes are unappealing, but I think that's deliberate. When Martha didn't immediately tell Clark that the bug was found, I was afraid it was because she suspected that was the only reason he stayed with her. It became obvious to me that she is now very distrusting of him. She didn't make him show her his apartment so she would feel safer, she did it because she was testing him. That's why she immediately decided to go home. And it was very telling that she didn't want him staying with her. Instead of the SL ending in her death, I would love for her to spill her guts and rat him out. He won't get caught, but at least he and Elizabeth will sweat it out a little.

Considering Stan has nothing to do anymore but think, isn't Philip a little nervous that Stan will notice how much time he spends away from home? And it speaks to how much I enjoy their friendship that I didn't realize that Philip was probably grilling Stan about the FBI. I thought he was just acting like a good friend.

I also don't understand how Philip doesn't KNOW his cover is blown. She was so transparent.

He may not realize his cover is blown, but he realizes something is up. He didn't try very hard to put Martha off about the apartment.

dr pepper · March 15, 2015

I don't think Martha is ready to suspect Clark of being a spy. I think it's more likely that she'd suspect him of being a reporter looking for dirt for a big expose, or else someone from another agency trying to discredit the FBI (or at least that office) so they can get a bigger budget or more responsibility. Either way, it's still a realization that she's being used. I also think he'll be able to talk her down one more time, but the next incident will be the end.

pasdetrois · March 15, 2015

In the 1980s (and even still today) people who were not heavily racist were nevertheless casually saying things like "this black guy came up to me..." or "this Oriental woman at the PTA..." or "this white lady at the bus stop...." People were still subconsciously distinguishing everyone based on race, even if there was no evil intent behind the comments. It was part of the cultural mind change going on.

I noticed when Stan said it, but I don't know if the writers were simply mimicking the times or if it's going to become an issue later.

stillshimpy · March 15, 2015

When Phil didn't immediately pick up on that "something has happened, and my cover is blown" of it all -- demanding to see his apartment made it pretty much crystal clear as well as the "I forgot my purse at work" thing -- I expected him to go home and tell Elizabeth "That jig is entirely up, we have to send someone to remove all photographs and all evidence of Clark, but I can't go near her again."

That he didn't do anything even vaguely similar to that made me wonder if he isn't perhaps also engaging in some willful denial. He pretty clearly decided to pull a wait and see. I wondered if it was because he doesn't actually want to have to kill the poor woman. As horrible as Clark/Phil has been on so many levels -- because you'd need charts and graphs to accurately track the emotional and psychological damage he's done to Marth -- I sort of get the sense that he at least likes her enough to not wish to kill her. He went to her apartment, unscheduled almost as if seeking refuge from the chill in his own home. He then ignored several honking "Dude, something materially changed and you have to actually know that" clues.

Poor Martha, I feel for her and as I said before, getting caught as the coworker betraying, bug-planting office mole would be enough to freak out nearly anyone, but there is slightly more to it than that: Martha wanted to stop bugging Gaad. She felt bad about doing it. That was established previously. It did not actually come out of the blue. Clark/Phil had to manipulate and emotionally wound her to get her to keep doing it, because she actually liked Gaad, Stan, etc. So there was previously established story material that Martha wasn't exactly thrilled with the pen bug as it was.

Then it went boom and there was another element to that: They immediately got that someone in the office could have planted it. Hence the closing of the office blinds so that no one could see that they'd discovered it. So the bug is busted, Martha felt bad about the damned thing anyway. Aderholt has shown a personal interest in her and secure files are no longer stored on the weird roaming cart. So she even has reason to think that Aderholt has been specifically watching what she has been doing.

But I'm moving on from that. It didn't surprise me, or come out of nowhere or even puzzle me, but I get that others are feeling differently about it, so I guess they didn't fully do the establishing job.

It's a lawsuit waiting to happen. I'd never thought of it before and it really stuck with me, so maybe that's why Stan's line stood out for me.

Oh absolutely, in a workplace setting, in the modern-day it is just something no professional person would do. It's just Stan was actually talking to a friend. Whereas I think it is significant that Stan noted Aderholt's race to Phil -- and here's the thing, I don't think that Aderholt being African-American has a thing to do with Stan's suspicions, but I do think it has something to do with why he has made Stan uncomfortable to be around. Aderholt specifically asked Stan how he managed to do that "deep cover with the freaking KKK of all hateful things that are personally aimed at me" and whereas he was honestly inquiring, there's also that thing that right underneath, in that question, Aderholt was also asking about Stan's own views. When your new partner is the only person of color around and the biggest gold-star on your own FBI resume is "successfully infiltrated the biggest bunch of bigoted hicks and haters, who very specifically hate anyone that looks like your new partner"....that's an awkward workplace moment that probably made Stan rather hyper-aware of a marked difference between them. Aderholt flat-out asked him how the heck he got into and stayed in a racist group for three long years.

It sort of makes sense that in that particular moment, Stan felt like the Whitest Guy to Ever White....and whereas it wasn't meant to be a challenge to Stan, Aderholt would also have to have been aware of the fourteen layers of awkward he was carving into, willingly and upfront. It was a question that had enough import to feel like it had mass.

On the Paige and Elizabeth front, I remain sort of appalled and fascinated that apparently no one involved has broached the "Uh....what happens if she freaks out and immediately wants to call the police because we're spies?" thing. There's only been the vaguest reference to it in Phil saying that Elizabeth telling Paige who they are would "blow this all sky high" ....but I'm not sure he has really explored what that might truly mean.

One thing that did give me a bit of about peace it was the podcast where Matthew Rhys talked about his stories this season and someone in the podcast did point out -- one of the people involved with the show -- that it's 1982 so people don't examine their actions in the same way we are so used to doing. They don't realize, "Hey, I know I'm in a bit of denial. I know I'm rationalizing. I know I'm being passive-aggressive" (or that another person is doing any of those things) because it just wasn't a societal focus or part of the mainstream conversation. Our self-awareness kick hadn't really begun in '82.

ETA: because the words "piece" and "peace" actually mean different things.

Edited March 15, 2015 by stillshimpy

RedHawk · March 15, 2015

That he didn't do anything even vaguely similar to that made me wonder if he isn't perhaps also engaging in some willful denial. He pretty clearly decided to pull a wait and see. I wondered if it was because he doesn't actually want to have to kill the poor woman.

That's what I see, also. And I've seen it building toward this. Philip doesn't hate Martha and he doesn't have total emotional distance from her. He married her and that ceremony had resonance for him, even though he was thinking of his relationship with Elizabeth. He has gone through the motions of being Martha's husband -- oh man, has he! -- and shows understanding of her desire to foster a child. While Philip may not want these things, he sees how deeply Martha does and as a human being with an evolving conscience, he's become emotionally connected to her -- much more so than he was to Annaliese, for example.

I will be surprised if he turns violently cold and takes her out, but on this show it could happen. Yet, at this point I think he will try to find a way not to.

sistermagpie · March 15, 2015

That's what I see, also. And I've seen it building toward this. Philip doesn't hate Martha and he doesn't have total emotional distance from her. He married her and that ceremony had resonance for him, even though he was thinking of his relationship with Elizabeth. He has gone through the motions of being Martha's husband -- oh man, has he! -- and shows understanding of her desire to foster a child. While Philip may not want these things, he sees how deeply Martha does and as a human being with an evolving conscience, he's become emotionally connected to her -- much more so than he was to Annaliese, for example.

This is something I was just thinking about elsewhere, that this season Elizabeth's arc keeps circling back to her "true self"--she tells Paige about Gregory and her past, has memories of her mother, is more committed to the Centre than ever, talks to Gabriel, remembers things about what her mother said about her father.

Philip's arc is playing out in large part through his personas. When Elizabeth is Michelle, she hits the right poses with Lisa and walks away. Philip "makes it real" on some level with everyone (even when it's real--as he told Elizabeth0. He's isolated at home, and playing out his feelings instead as Clark, Scott and Jim--and even Philip when he's with Stan. He's been switching disguises and personas furiously this season, it's like flipping through a deck of cards. This week he had drama as Clark and as Philip, plus some memories of Mischa through Irina, and even the new character Jack seemed like a real guy, making goo goo eyes at Elizabeth. (I don't count the disguise at the end since that was mostly just a disguise.) In Salang Pass he was Scott, Philip, Clark, Jim and Mischa all in one ep, and every one of them had important emotional reality.

It's not that he "is" these people, but he does feel some reality in all the relationships he has as these people Martha touched him when she talked about wanting to share with a child who had nothing. Kimmie touched him when she prayed for Jim's son. He and Yousef never meet without the ghost of Anneleise between them.

It sort of makes sense that in that particular moment, Stan felt like the Whitest Guy to Ever White....and whereas it wasn't meant to be a challenge to Stan, Aderholt would also have to have been aware of the fourteen layers of awkward he was carving into, willingly and upfront. It was a question that had enough import to feel like it had mass.

Yes, this is why I feel like Stan wasn't even just referring to Aderholt as 'the black guy' in the office--iirc, he was describing him and the whole situation to Philip and included that in the description as something relevant--which I think it is. And even when white people aren't saying "the black guy" it's still a reality--as Paige pointed out when noting there were no black people in Falls Church.

kikaha · March 15, 2015

I will be surprised if he turns violently cold and takes her out

I don't see how he can't. She has no more inside info for him. She knows something is terribly wrong with him and his story to her. And she knows a whole lot about him. His voice. His face. His height and body structure. An artist working with her should be able to produce nearly an exact replica of Phillip.

So if Phillip realizes or even suspects his cover is blown, I think the KGB has to take violent action.

Martha's only possibility IMO: come clean with Gaad. Calm Phillip's concerns, by going all lovey-dovey with him. But in fact, she is taping him, allowing the FBI to learn who he is, and then grab him when they choose. i.e. Martha could do to Phillip what Irina did to Stan last season. She and Gaad would have to reestablish the bug: maybe hard to impossible, given the differing technologies the Soviets likely used?

Real hard, real tricky, fraught with danger and easily tripped up. But at least it gives her a possible out. Unless we've come to the end of the series, though, this is not an outcome I expect.

sistermagpie · March 15, 2015

Real hard, real tricky, fraught with danger and easily tripped up. But at least it gives her a possible out. Unless we've come to the end of the series, though, this is not an outcome I expect.

I actually don't think they'd need to do to Clark what Nina did to Stan. If Martha comes clean to Gaad they can quickly establish this guy is not FBI and they're minds would immediately go to the KGB, or at least some outsider. So I think it would really be as simple as asking when Martha will see him next and snatching him. Martha doesn't have to lie to him for any length of time. She might not even have to see him again, just not be there when Clark comes over.

So it's actually a really easy grab for Martha with no danger involved to her (besides the trouble she's in as the unwitting traitor and the emotional damage of seeing the reality of Clark). Philip's the one in danger.

kikaha · March 15, 2015

sistermagpie, your suggestion is good and should work. But all it gets them is one person. The FBI knows it has a serious Soviet spy problem. This could be its opportunity to go far deeper into the ring.

Any predictions on what actually happens? Mine is that Phillip acts before Martha does.

sistermagpie · March 15, 2015

sistermagpie, your suggestion is good and should work. But all it gets them is one person. The FBI knows it has a serious Soviet spy problem. This could be its opportunity to go far deeper into the ring.

Not really, would it? Taping Clark would get them no more than what Martha would already be able to tell them about Clark--that there are Illegals who sometimes play his sister and mother. They could follow Clark home to the Jennings house if they could tail him (and he might catch on to that). Although they don't know it they'd get that just from bringing him to the office and letting Stan see him.

But as Aderholdt said, if you catch one they might talk. That's the network connection. Catching even one Illegal seems like it's been established as a huge thing in this universe.

AllyB · March 15, 2015

They could try to get Martha to make Clarke invite his sister and mother around for dinner and nab the three of them.

Edited March 15, 2015 by AllyB

sistermagpie · March 15, 2015

They could try to get Martha to make Clarke invite his sister and mother around for dinner and nab the three of them.

They totally could--but again, the question is whether it's standard to risk the Illegal you have on the chance that Martha can pull this off, or just nabbing this guy. It's certainly possible they would try that, but that's risking a genuine Illegal grab on the hope that a totally untrained secretary can beat Moscow's finest. I wouldn't put my money on Martha, who's already telegraphed that something's wrong, to get Clark to produce his family on her command when it's very possibly that Martha wouldn't even be able to interact with him halfway normally once she knew he was an actual KGB spy. At this point she's just scared and upset but is holding onto the illusion.

I know the FBI has a bad record of using sources this way when it comes to drug stings etc., but if they tried it with Martha my prediction would be that the Illegals would melt away and Martha would be lucky to not end up dead.

Any predictions on what actually happens? Mine is that Phillip acts before Martha does.

I think Philip's going to pull a rabbit of his hat next week and prolong Martha's belief in him. Don't ask me how. Maybe he'll pretend the whole operation was him going rogue so that his bosses will notice him. And once he has to tell that one second story he will hopefully be on the lookout for danger signs.

I just realized this story, like Kimmie's, is reflecting the Paige one. Martha seeing Clark isn't who he appeared to be is like Paige seeing Philip isn't.

Edited March 15, 2015 by sistermagpie

RedHawk · March 15, 2015

Family Christmas dinner??? I would love to see Philip's mother and sister again!

Edited March 15, 2015 by RedHawk

Umbelina · March 15, 2015

They could do many things with Martha's information, should she give it to them. They could even simply plant false information and let Philip have that, act on bad intel, or send it on to the USSR.

I think assuming capture and arrest would be the only options is a mistake.

That said, obviously our leads are not going to be arrested, killed, or deported. So I think we have to look for another option. Now, if Elizabeth were nabbed and held secretly, I could see Philip double agenting it for the FBI for her life. Visa Versa though? I'm pretty sure Elizabeth would sacrifice Philip for the cause, and report everything to Gabriel.

Speaking of that, the whole "bigger fish to fry" might come into play. Elizabeth and Philip are very big fish, but Gabriel is a bigger fish, for example.

Either way, things just got even more interesting!

ETA

I just detailed some "spy" stuff Robert Baer mentioned on RED commentary in the REAL LIFE SPY thread. Oddly enough, one of those things was the illegals and moles were sometimes apparently were simply used by CIA/FBI instead of arrest/deportation, not simply trying to turn them to double agents, but also to either pass on bad info, or see what it was the KGB was after, or look for a larger group of spies, etc. Arrest was not always the chosen option.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Umbelina

SlackerInc · March 16, 2015

When the bug was found she didn't suddenly think, "OMG, Clark is a KGB agent!" I felt that at first she just saw she was losing what made her a valuable wife/asset to him, which first began when she realized she would no longer have easy access to the top-secret files.

So why panic and run to the bathroom, then? That's destroying a valuable, presumably expensive, piece of U.S. gov't equipment for no reason.

Respectfully, I've been a black person for more than 47 years, and I'm pretty comfortable with my ability to place comments on the racism spectrum. I just didn't think that Stan' s inclusion of Aderholt' s race was hostile, condescending, or coming from a place of power. It just was a fact, which we nowadays do notice but don't verbalize. Based on its tone I would not, personally, label it racist.

Respectfully, I don't think being black for 47 years gives you a "get out of racism jail free" card to hand out.

I too can't understand why Martha acted as though she saw through Clark right from the time the bug was found. The scene with her wistful look at the Kama Sutra book and her gun made that clear. She was upset about Clark's identity, not about getting caught bugging her boss for internal reasons. But why?

I know, right? Glad it's not just me. They really played that scene like the discovery of the bug itself tipped off Martha that Clark wasn't on the up and up, which makes no sense. It's not as though the bug being tapped on the table would send some automatic signal to the upper echelons to get on the horn posthaste and tell Gaad to stand down. If they had waited to show her panicking after the OPR guy came, that would have made at least a little more sense.

I also don't understand how Philip doesn't KNOW his cover is blown. She was so transparent.

Agree with that as well. It would be disappointing if Philip were really that much worse at reading people than Elizabeth, who sniffed out what happened with the CIA woman (the one at the bar who gave her the list of names she subsequently lost in the scuffle with Gaad) right away, despite not knowing her as well and the woman (IMO) doing a better job playing it off.

When Phil didn't immediately pick up on that "something has happened, and my cover is blown" of it all -- demanding to see his apartment made it pretty much crystal clear as well as the "I forgot my purse at work" thing -- I expected him to go home and tell Elizabeth "That jig is entirely up, we have to send someone to remove all photographs and all evidence of Clark, but I can't go near her again."

Right, that has got to be in fluorescent highlighter near the beginning of Spycraft 101. Better to break things off too soon, and potentially miss a little more intel, than too late and get busted. It's so obviously time to wash his hands of that whole gig. And if he were to do it now, Martha could just kind of quietly figure things out, not tell anyone, and get on with her life. Win-win.

Speaking of that, the whole "bigger fish to fry" might come into play. Elizabeth and Philip are very big fish, but Gabriel is a bigger fish, for example.

You think? I don't know about that. He passes on orders to them, but more as a middleman than anything. I suspect if "The Centre" had to choose one of the three of them to give up in a trade (like that whole deal with the Mossad agent), it would be Gabriel. He is older, less able to work targets, fight, etc.; and he doesn't have as solid a cover with the family including kids.

Umbelina · March 16, 2015

Yeah, but Gabriel may be handling other agents as well, so watching him might catch them even more illegals, or, as I said, there is always the passing on disinformation angle, as well as watching what the Soviets are looking for.

Martha's initial panic COULD have also been about Philip getting caught, but then she had more time to think, and a lot of things that never really made sense surfaced.

lucindabelle · March 16, 2015

I thought Philip looked hot in the wig.

Was deeply confused about the cafe heist until this board. Wildly off.

I loved h stand son turned from dutiful but annoyed and hungry teen to someone who was interested in dad and saw dad s real and worthwhile, merely through some truth telling, we scoff at ESt but it did do some good for Stan there.

Martha will not kill herself, she'll be angry and hurt but at Philp for the deceit.

Martha just does not seem the broody, introspective type.

What's more, aderholt likes her, and shes aware.

I don't think she ever thought Philip was the only man who'd ever have her.

The panic made sense. She doesn't trust him, she still wants to, she's into something bad.

stillshimpy · March 16, 2015

Yeah, but Gabriel may be handling other agents as well, so watching him might catch them even more illegals, or, as I said, there is always the passing on disinformation angle, as well as watching what the Soviets are looking for.

Someone does things like passes information to the whole network of people who seem to do nothing but perpetually provide cars to be used in crimes (and thereby rendered untraceable) or coordinates things like the woman who answers the phone and interprets the code about traffic on the 405 (or whatever that was). I guess I've also assumed that that person would be Gabriel (Kate, Claudia). I don't know if the FBI would immediately think, "Whoever planted that bug has access to that person in some 'separate by X number of degrees' manner", but they should be able to understand that concept.

I rewatched last night with my husband (who was seeing it for the first time) , I still really like that moment between Aderholt and Stan, I also really like the moment when Stan discusses Aderholt with Phil. Another one of the things Stan says, before commenting on Aderholt's race is that he "asks a lot of questions" and it was sort of ironically funny to me and I think purposefully so. Yes, Stan it is the Federal Bureau of Investigation, there's an implication that that would be an appropriate approach.

Again, the thing that tips Martha off that something has to be off with Clark is meeting Walter Taffet -- who is supposed to work for the same agency as Clark, yet clearly is that office's assigned agent and has no clue who Martha is, although she's allegedly been passing their office information for years. So that's a clue.

The larger question of "Why did she freak out immediately" actually goes towards something else and whether or not people can buy that Martha was initially upset at the whole "I'm in the deep 'doo now! I will soon be outed as the office snitch and lose the respect of every person here. Joy? Not joy. Woe! Much woe!' of it all. She clearly would like to get through the bug sweep undiscovered, with her job intact and about half her personal identity. Starting over from scratch as a woman in '82 would not have been a proposition most greeted with shouts of glee, but she visibly relaxes after her purse clears the (giant, almost cartoonish looking) bug sweeper.

It's after she meets Walter that it seems like she starts to really worry that Clark/Phillip isn't on the up-and-up, because Walter ought to know who she is and there's even really a possibility that Walter ought to manifest as Clark. As for why that doesn't then confirm: Clark is a Fraud Entirely! I would guess that people who work in any kind of intelligence systems know that there can, and often are weird structures.

I think it's still a valid complaint though, even if I can parse it out and find perfectly plausible explanations, it requires a fair amount of time to do so. Admittedly, I think the objections to "But why would she freak out right away?" are also only going to be raised by people giving it a lot of thought, or rewatching (essentially all of us), so I don't know. I think it's a legitimate complaint because she's barely able to keep it together even before "What the ....Walter? Why is there a Walter here? Why does he clearly not know who I am? What the hell is going on? And....Holy shit, I've never even seen Clark's apartment or anyone else from his agency...or...or...fuck!" moment.

Also, Phil does tell Elizabeth that something is up with Martha, but he seems so ...if not unconcerned....at least too ready to assign it to the "could be about that foster kid" situation. Which, by the way, that story gives me greater pause than Martha freaking out fully before it might have been fully warranted. Where does Martha envision putting a child in that apartment?

One more thing that sort of filled me with dread was that Paige and her "When did you stop caring about making a difference?" crap and noting the racial makeup of Falls Church and other injustices made me worry that they really are going to try and sell that Paige would go gladly into the arms of Mother Russia. I dearly hope that on top of no one addressing the entire "Uh....what if she just freaks out, falls down, gets up and calls the police with the power of her lungs alone?" problem, the story will do something other than have True Believer Paige cast aside her faith quite that easily.

There's a reason we foolishly added "In God We Trust" to currencyat the inception of the Cold War. Religion, the existence of it, the freedom of it, were supposed to be one of the things that separated a free society from communism and forced group-think. Seriously, thanks a lot for that mare's nest of idiocy, paranoid-about-the-communist-peril folks from the fifties, it's only led to shit like publicly praying politicians and the horror of things like Sarah Palin once we stake ourselves to godliness via currency. I'm not just drumming my liberal heels there either, that's such a "our current climate" thing that I dearly hope the show has not introduced that aspect, just to conveniently discard what it might mean to Paige to find out that her parents are Soviet Spies.

I mean, clearly Paige isn't going to have been hearing about the Evil, Evil Soviets and the Iron Curtain at home, but she's old enough to have noted an Olympic Boycott for the summer Olympics in '80 and a whole host of other things. At that time people weren't quite as "They'll kill us all!" as people were in the fifties and sixties, but damn, it's also not as if the word Glasnost was being batted about at that time.

Elizabeth's "At least she'll know who she is!" thing better have a back swing to it that includes "Yup, someone who has said the pledge of allegiance in her school every damned day of her grade-school life and who primarily associates the Soviet Union with lack-of-toilet paper and misery, if not human rights violations of their own."

Jeez, that story just bugs the hell out of me for all the things that never get said or talked about. Maybe it makes sense that Elizabeth has that kind of tunnel vision. That inability to see "wow, that could go catastrophically wrong there, you know" but Phillip has some kind of inkling about it. Yet they don't then follow that rabbit down its hole. Instead they talk about Phillip's magically manifesting Paratrooper Progeny at a time when Gabriel wants to shore up his loyalty to the Soviet cause.

Also, I am worried that so much focus on Sad Stan and his life of nearly divorced Sorrow means that when Nina inevitably resurfaces that he'll easily fall prey to whatever machinations she has in store for him.

Between Martha fondly petting the Kama Sutra , Stan talking about Nina being a good person (and she really sort of was, before you blew her friend's head off for nothing he directly did) , Kimmie's Clear and Present Papa issues there's a little too much, "Americans: Cuddle Until Treasonous, Works Like a Charm" going on.

Edited March 16, 2015 by stillshimpy

kikaha · March 16, 2015

Bottom line for me is that that Phillip cannot afford a skeptical Martha. If she talks to her bosses, it's all over for Elizabeth and him, and maybe many others in their spy ring.

Elizabeth trying to turn Paige: I think it has to be a slow seduction. Play to Paige's passions and rage at injustice and inequality. Gradually, step by step, move her down the road to communism/socialism. It's a utopian dream that can cast a hypnotic spell on idealists and the undertrodden. Elizabeth made a great start at doing exactly that.

i disagree with a great deal of what stillshimpy says above, but my understanding is that the owner of this site does not want political discussions/debates, so I will bit my tongue.

sistermagpie · March 16, 2015

So why panic and run to the bathroom, then? That's destroying a valuable, presumably expensive, piece of U.S. gov't equipment for no reason.

That made total sense to me. Even if she thinks she's bugging the office for an internal investigation she never wanted to be outed as somebody bugging the office. When things got real, she panicked and cried and didn't want to get caught. She already felt guilty about it and this just brought it home. Getting caught with the bug, even if Walter Taffet was Clark, would be a horrible thing to go through on an ordinary Wednesday morning. Destroy the damn bug that's been bothering her for months first, then sort through your feelings about it, like your anger at Clark for putting you in that position.

Yeah, but Gabriel may be handling other agents as well, so watching him might catch them even more illegals, or, as I said, there is always the passing on disinformation angle, as well as watching what the Soviets are looking for.

I definitely see all the logic in just watching Clark to see if he leads them to more, but in past episodes it seems like each individual Illegal is like Moby Dick to these guys so I'd be surprised if they were suddenly getting cutesy with plans to get at bigger fish they can only imagine at this point--especially in ways that rely on the untrained secretary continuing to be married to a man she now knows is a deadly KGB agent. (Based on what we see it doesn't seem like Gabriel/Claudia/Kate are automatically more valuable than Philip and Elizabeth anyway.)

One more thing that sort of filled me with dread was that Paige and her "When did you stop caring about making a difference?" crap and noting the racial makeup of Falls Church and other injustices made me worry that they really are going to try and sell that Paige would go gladly into the arms of Mother Russia.

I don't think they will. The show is just way to invested in people having different things they believe in to cast aside anyone's faith as nothing. I do think, though, that they've laid the groundwork for Paige to turn out to not be that strong a Christian just because it seems to me they've shown her more confident about the political stuff. That's not to say she's lying or anything, but she was introduced to this stuff altogether and her mentor, Pastor Tim, sees Christ as the model for activists. It really does make sense that someone as young as Paige who's obviously inspired by the idea but completely ignorant about a lot of history might start with seeing Jesus as the best activist and then move on to humans like herself. They've intentionally left that door open so that we can at least imagine a way she could become a committed Communist. If she was on fire for Christ it would seem just impossible. They made sure that the thing Paige is most focused on is the thing that can seem to overlap with her parents' beliefs.

But that's very different from saying that Paige would then come to reject religion--especially freedom of religion and respect for different faiths. I think at the moment she's in flux and like all teenagers (and all people) can be hypocritical and judgy about others. (Like her little rejection of EST as "not a church" sounding like she thinks it's stupid.) It would take a while for Elizabeth to convince her that Christianity was actually a hindrance to activism, and even more for it to be a bad thing.

I always remember a scene in S1 where Paige mentions her one teacher who always seems (to Elizabeth) to be giving her anti-Soviet propaganda. Elizabeth says she imagines it must be hard to look/listen to him in class because he's got a hairlip. Paige says, "Mom, that's his disability." It's just this little moment where Elizabeth's harder side comes out and she's really trying to get Paige against this guy and all Paige hears is bad manners.

stillshimpy · March 16, 2015

i disagree with a great deal of what stillshimpy says above, but my understanding is that the owner of this site does not want political discussions/debates, so I will bit my tongue.

Well and I'm actually not trying to open up a dialogue about any current day activities and I apologize if it seemed that way.

My frustration is with some absence of discussion within the story between Phillip and Elizabeth. One of things that was really underlined as separating communism and democracy was freedom of religion in the time period of the show as much as anything. That I feel it has current day negative implications notwithstanding on that.

However, I think sistermagpie is right that they aren't just likely to breeze over that aspect with Paige, it just currently feels that way. They made a point of Zinaida talking about the abolishing of religion being against the will of the Soviet people (which isn't entirely accurate, but was yet another note in the show indicating that they won't ignore the issue).

Paige being recently Baptised in the Christian faith should be a significant hurdle to clear and I always wonder how Elizabeth seeming breezes past that as an obstacle even in her thinking.

Edited March 16, 2015 by stillshimpy

Sign In

S03.E07: Walter Taffet

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Chaos Theory

Luciano

crgirl412

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Guest

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment