More Dramatic Than the Show: Behind the Scenes

[blixie]

 

If Juliana threatened to leave, they should have called her bluff.

 

But, I'm pretty sure they DID call her bluff (writing in the a reconciliation she had repeatedly said should NEVER occur), and they LOST, it's fairly obvious that JM had the 100% backing of both CBS the studio, and CBS the network, and that those companies valued their relationship with JM as a *star* (and in TV I'd say she's A list)  more than they valued their relationship with the Kings. We wouldn't be 50 some episodes into this farce if JM wasn't being coddled and not by the Kings, but people far above them.

[whatsatool]

I think JM might have gotten rid of Kalinda if not for the award. She has minimized everyone else in her cast.

[Kromm]

Here's the Gawker link for those interested - there's an article and then the comments from people purporting to be cast members in the comments section: http://morningafter.gawker.com/the-good-wife-conspiracy-actress-rivalry-led-to-doctor-1703816484

 

I know it'll piss Kromm off that the word "conspiracy" is used by Gawker, but the author doesn't try to debunk anything.

The article is fairly thin overall, so mostly the tone is fairly neutral.  It's not dripping with disdain (using loaded phrases like "truthers" or putting targeted words like "feud" in quotes to indicate dismissiveness of them) like that Washington Post piece.  So overall?  It doesn't really piss me off.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Kromm

[pivot]

I stopped watching The Good Wife during Peter's stupid running for Governor storyline. Eli campaigning for Peter to give the keynote speech at the DNC made my eyes roll so much that I had to give up the show.

However, this thread is the most entertaining thread on Previously TV right now. I love behind-the-scenes gossip. For what it is worth, there were plenty of rumors that JM was a diva on the ER set as well and stories from the Sopranos set as well.

Edited May 13, 2015 by pivot

[Maherjunkie]

I wish AP would take the words of the wonderful Polly Holiday/Flo and tell JM/"Alice" to "KISS MY GRITS!"

 

We all know what happened there.  That show was never the same.

[LNDNgirl]

I'd never heard of any discord backstage or the issues between JM and AP until I stumbled across the forum, so this is all really interesting to me.  I really used to like the show (own the first two seasons on DVD), but kind of started tapering off sometime during season four. I still caught every episode, but it wasn't "must-see" tv, but rather catch up when I remembered. I never really noticed that Kalinda and Alicia shared no scenes, again, until I stumbled across this forum.  Maybe I just don't pay as much attention as I think when watching TV.

 

I follow Josh Charles on Twitter, and he posted something on Sunday that had AP's twitter name in it.  I clicked on her page, and she had a post that read (paraphrased) "Well you guys got what you've been wanting for some time."  Referring, I think, to the onscreen reunion of Alicia and Kalinda.  I went back this morning after reading some posts about the finale, and the post is gone. Hmmm....

[possibilities]

I have no problem blaming CBS rather than the Kings, actually. I think it's a mistake to coddle divas, but then again there may be lots of diva types at the network executive level, too, so maybe they have a natural affinity. It's just bad for the business long term, in my opinion, and definitely bad for the world.

[crashdown]

But, I'm pretty sure they DID call her bluff (writing in the a reconciliation she had repeatedly said should NEVER occur), and they LOST, it's fairly obvious that JM had the 100% backing of both CBS the studio, and CBS the network, and that those companies valued their relationship with JM as a *star* (and in TV I'd say she's A list)  more than they valued their relationship with the Kings. We wouldn't be 50 some episodes into this farce if JM wasn't being coddled and not by the Kings, but people far above them.

 

 

That's more or less what I assume as well. And if that's true, I'd be surprised if the Kings didn't really hate JM's guts by now.  But even with all of the little maybe-true maybe-not leaks about the growing discord between JM and AP since season one, what's missing is WHAT happened in season four that caused it all to come to a head.  Alicia and Kalinda had plenty of interaction in season 4a, including a seeming buildup to the revelation that Kalinda was actually in love with Alicia.  But that all came to a screeching, definitive halt in season 4b.  What could have happened to catalyst all that? I'd love to know!

[Ohmo]

it's fairly obvious that JM had the 100% backing of both CBS the studio, and CBS the network,

 

I think that's less about Julianna specifically and more about CBS. I mentioned this several pages back. CBS tends to have a format for many (not all, but many) shows where they rotate around one main character. Whoever that person is has most of the power in the series. In the case of The Good Wife, that person is Julianna.  CBS would be true to its own form by backing her.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Ohmo

[blixie]

I never said CBS backing JM was specifically about her, it's about valuing FOTH stars over BTS talent.

 

 

what's missing is WHAT happened in season four that caused it all to come to a head.

 

I think it was that whatever the "plan" was in terms of Kalinda and Alicia, that husband story line was pilloried almost from the start, it was Blake times 100, so not only were they fucking with JM by pursuing a story line she didn't want to act, the show was getting hammered in the press for that exact story line, and CBS finally stepped in and took her side, and once she had that she kiboshed ever having to work with AP again.

 

If that one post at Gawker is correct it sounds like maybe Archie's husband got into it with JM, and hence the insistence on not having to share a set or a Christmas party with her ever again ( and IF he did I actually think JM behavior is slightly more understandable), BUT I would think if some kind of major altercation like that did happen it seems like it would have leaked especially in concert with the increasingly obvious separation on screen. Basically I don't think anyone in the press, other than that Buzzfeed writer, cared much in S5 what was going on with the supposed feud, because most critics felt the show was kicking ass, and it wasn't until the dust settled in the back half of floundering S6 that they were ready to go oh right what the actual fuck is up with this?

Edited May 13, 2015 by blixie

[Ohmo]

I never said CBS backing JM was specifically about her, it's about valuing FOTH stars over BTS talent.

 

i didn't intend for that to come across as a criticism of you, so I apologize if that's the way it was received.  I meant that JM had the 100% backing of both CBS the studio, and CBS the network because that's what CBS tends to do, whether it's Julianna or not.  Like you said, CBS backs FOTH talent, and even more specific than that, CBS tends to back the LEAD "front of the house" talent.  I don't think "A-list" talent has anything to do with it either.  Julianna could be B-list talent or C-list talent.  If CBS picked her to lead a show, it would back her because of that selection as the lead. During the run of CSI: Miami, I think it would be a stretch to call David Caruso A-list talent, but he was lead talent, and I've similarly read that he threw weight around in certain situations...which likely happened because Caruso knew that CBS typically backs its leads.

[whatsatool]

I wonder how many male divas there are. I suppose Perry Mason was one. Andy G?

[Janimo]

I betcha David Caruso was one. It's just a feeling.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I wonder how many male divas there are. I suppose Perry Mason was one. Andy G?

 

Why would you think that? From everything I've ever read and seen, the opposite is true.

[whatsatool]

I guess I wonder if there is a double std. Maybe male actors have reacted and controlled like JM and never been criticised.

Edited May 13, 2015 by whatsatool

[crashdown]

Could someone define FOTH for me?  I realize from the context that it means the on-air talent, as opposed to the behind-the-scenes crew.  But I can't figure out the specific acronym.

 

I'm sure that the terrible Kalinda's husband storyline was used as ammunition in whatever-it-was in season four, but it couldn't have been the thing itself.  And no, I don't think it's any more understandable for JM to refuse to act in scenes with AP, even if AP's husband screamed at her in public (let's say, for the sake of argument). Not wanting to see the two of them in a social context, sure.  Not wanting to do her job?  Not so much.

[merylinkid]

Yeah you do your fucking job.   I don't care if you like someone, you are hired to tell a story.   Tell the story go on with your life.

 

Now I can maybe JM objecting to the Kalinda is in love with her storyline.   ALicia has never been played as even bisexual.   And given what I witnessed over on the old TWO  L & O SVU storyline, she doesn't need the crap of people shipping the actors in real life.   But to go from "hey, let's not do a lesbian love story, I don't think it's right for this character" to "I will never even be on the same set with that woman or breathe the same air" is a bit much.   Kibosh a specific storyline, not all interaction with the character forever and ever.

[Ohmo]

Could someone define FOTH for me?  I realize from the context that it means the on-air talent, as opposed to the behind-the-scenes crew.  But I can't figure out the specific acronym.

 

I interpreted it to mean "Front of the House."  It's a term used in the hospitality industry (according to a family member) to talk about the people that the public sees (servers, concierges, etc.).

[CleoCaesar]

And given what I witnessed over on the old TWO  L & O SVU storyline, she doesn't need the crap of people shipping the actors in real life.

 

Plus pretty much every show where there is some kind of intense friendship between two characters, canon sexualities be damned.

 

There already was a lot of Kalicia speculation going on before season 4, if memory serves. Intense female friendships aren't that common on TV so fans tend to really grab onto what they are given and run with it. JM's discomfort with Kalicia (and any real-life shipping that inevitably follows) is my theory why she so COMPLETELY shut down the Kalicia friendship.

[Ohmo]

There already was a lot of Kalicia speculation going on before season 4, if memory serves. Intense female friendships aren't that common on TV so fans tend to really grab onto what they are given and run with it. JM's discomfort with Kalicia (and any real-life shipping that inevitably follows) is my theory why she so COMPLETELY shut down the Kalicia friendship.

 

Was there actually any on-screen suggestion that Kalinda/Alicia might turn into romance, or are we still talking speculation?  I've seen every episode (except for this year's finale.) If there was a suggestion of romance on-screen, it clearly went over my head.  I never got that sense at all---not even a little bit.  With Jill Flint and Kellie Giddish's characters, sure.  They were love interests for Kalinda, but I never interpreted Kalinda/Alicia as anything beyond pleutonic friends.

[crashdown]

There never was a suggestion of anything on Alicia's side beyond subtext (but I think that there WAS subtext).  On Kalinda's side, I think it was pretty clear in season 4a that the Kings were writing toward the "revelation" (I'm putting that in quotation marks, because it wouldn't have been all that revelatory for those of us who were invested in it) that Kalinda was in love with Alicia.  I think that was Nick's narrative purpose--he was there to find out who it was that Kalinda loved.  He kept getting it wrong--first he thought that she stayed in Chicago because she was in love with him, then he thought she was in love with Lana.  Then he heard Kalinda talking to Alicia on the phone and told her that her "voice on that phone was not work."  Then he thought perhaps she was talking to Cary, whom he promptly beat up.  It was all circling around and around to the fact that the REAL reason Kalinda stayed in Chicago, and the REAL person she loved, was Alicia.  I'm pretty sure that Nick was supposed to say just that before he sauntered out of Kalinda's life, leaving the audience with that bombshell.  It would have pretty much paralleled what happened with Blake in season 2--Blake just told the audience openly that Kalinda cared about Alicia, and Nick would have gone one step further and told the audience that Kalinda was in LOVE with Alicia. But that never happened--the Nick storyline was truncated, and after that arc for all intents and purposes Kalicia was dead.

 

As an unapologetic shipper, I really thought that the Kings WERE writing toward Kalinda and Alicia as some sort of endgame.  It would have been a dramatic twist on network TV, and I honestly believed that Alicia was someone who might be open to a late-life reassessment of her sexuality.  I no longer think that they *were* writing toward that sort of happy ending, because I see now that they're just not happy ending sorts of people.  I think Kalinda's love for Alicia would have become obvious to the audience, and then Alicia herself would have found out about it.  Whether she would have been open to the idea or whether she would have completely shut Kalinda out for a good long time, well, I can't really say at this point.  I *can* say that it would have been pretty interesting TV, even if it didn't end well for anyone.  If JM shut the storyline down for creative reasons, she was really shortsighted.  Done correctly, it could have been Emmy bait and would have really made a splash both for her and for CBS among the critics.

Edited May 14, 2015 by crashdown

[whatsatool]

Oh well if that was true, all is forgiven JM, but it still doesn't explain the minimalist interaction with everyone but Eli. Also the really sucky plot lines for Kalinda. Too many Alicia alone scenes.

Edited May 14, 2015 by whatsatool

[CleoCaesar]

Was there actually any on-screen suggestion that Kalinda/Alicia might turn into romance, or are we still talking speculation?  I've seen every episode (except for this year's finale.) If there was a suggestion of romance on-screen, it clearly went over my head.  I never got that sense at all---not even a little bit.

 

Crazy Internet shippers do not need actual in-canon suggestions. They can read subtext into literally the most benign of gestures.

 

Edit: Not to sound too dismissive. I am, or used to be, a crazy Internet shipper for the most cracked-out pairings. It's fun.

Edited May 14, 2015 by CleoCaesar

[possibilities]

Kalinda could have been in love with Alicia without Alicia being in love with Kalinda. That sort of thing happens all the time in real life. TV knows what unrequited love is, and if that was all it was, then why did Kalinda have to be banished from set entirely? Even if you wanted to kill the story, you didn't have to kill the character. They had been functioning perfectly well as friends and colleagues for several seasons already. There's more to whatever happened than just a storyline objection. It was taken to hysterical and/or spiteful extremities for them to marginalize the character and the actress, way beyond just quashing a particular plot possibility.

 

Was Robin in love with Alicia, too? Why did she disappear?

[crashdown]

I just noticed this Chris Harnick tweet from this morning's CBS upfronts:

 

CBS reel just showed Alicia and Kalinda's goodbye scene.

 

 

Oops! :-)

[kdm07]

I think the most galling thing for me is not who is at fault (unless someone writes a tell-all we'll never know) but the fact that the showrunners/CBS let it affect the show and it's writing. Who hasn't worked with someone they despised? Everyone has and will probably do so again but at least most people just get on with it. What makes this show so special that the quality of the show was compromised just so co-workers didn't have to share the same air?

[Morbs]

I've never heard the theory about Kalinda/Alisha before, it definitely would have kept me interested and more invested in watching, and IMO JM has never had much chemistry with her male love interests anyways so it would have been believable to me.

[dcalley]

I wish AP would take the words of the wonderful Polly Holiday/Flo and tell JM/"Alice" to "KISS MY GRITS!"

 

We all know what happened there.  That show was never the same.

And now Linda Lavin is on The Good Wife!

[Maherjunkie]

Oops!  Forgot the irony.  She could say to her "My character had low charisma too.  Just go with it."

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't know what happened behind the scenes of Alice (I was a kid). But Linda Lavin is by far, the better actress, and even when Polly Holiday, got her own spin-off Flo, it bombed spectacularly. That much I do remember. It wasn't as funny, she wasn't as funny, as when she was on Alice. And Alice ran for 10 seasons. So count me in the group as No, I don't know what happened there.

 

As for this show? All I see on my computer, are articles about Kalinda, this feud, but nothing, Not.A.Thing about Margulies or her thoughts on the finale or even the Kings. I find it...interesting.

 

And I know I've said it before and I'll say it again for the last time, (I promise), that the Kings should have just put their foot down when all this imploded.  I had referenced how back in the 50s, on I Love Lucy, how William Frawlley (Fred) and Vivian Vance (Ethel) couldn't stand each other.  Granted, they weren't the stars, but they did their fucking job. You couldn't convince me that there was any tension between them. Or between Lucille Ball and Vivian Vance.

 

Or Pierce Brosnan and Stephanie Zimbalist.

[Sydneyside]

I'm late to this delicious thread!

I think "the Kings should have put their foot down" position doesn't understand the power dynamics at work. Showrunners don't put up the money, CBS does. JM has a lot of clout and clearly did from day 1 when she got them agree to shoot the show in NYC despite pre and post production being done in LA. Then in Season 3 she got herself made a producer just at the point where she is publicly on record disagreeing with the Kings on a storytelling choice (A/K reconciliation) and claiming a victory for good sense in making them slow the pace of it down.

JM has CBS in her pocket. The Highest of higher ups at CBS have a decades long relationship with her going back to ER. Les Moonves green-lighted ER, and Nina Tassler developed it when both worked for Warner prior to their current tenure at CBS. They've also now given JM a producing deal, so she does have a project to go on with after TGW ends. I don't think it was a coincidence that JM made her move to get Kalinda and Kalicia shanked just at the point when Kalinda's stock was lowest because of the public outcry over the Nick storyline.

Archie Panjabi was a relative unknown and the last person cast when TPTB were at the point of changing Kalinda's ethnicity when they couldn't find anyone of Indian heritage they liked. She unexpectedly became a breakout star and got a lot of buzz including the Emmy. Anyway who remembers S1 and 2 publicity for the show (including 2 lavish and expensive photo shoots for CBS Watch) can see how differently she was treated later on. Official accounts for the show congratulated JM on nominations and didn't do the same for AP when she was up for the same awards in her own category until fans noticed and started calling them on it. I could see how petty it had become when the show had it's 100th episode. There was much congratulatory tweeting and shots of parties on set. Then when it aired AP didn't have a single scene with her regular cast mates (she is on the phone to Diane only) and would have scarcely been on the lot because most of her material was on location.

I think the Kings didn't want to write in the direction they've been forced to, but they've well and truly bought stock in JM's Kool-Aid factory. They're both on the board of JM's ALS fundraising organisation for instance. I think they saw the way the wind was blowing and stopped tacking into the breeze. They make their risible "it was all intentional" statements that contradict what they said when the shit hit the fan at the time at the end of Season 4.

I blame JM 100% for what took place because she is the one refusing to work with Archie. Whatever "happened" Archie remained willing to show up and do her job. I also can't believe that it's been "Archie behaving badly" that has caused it. If she were being unprofessional on set, well, you'd expect MC to keep speaking well of her because they are clearly friends. But CB started going out of her way to say nice things about Archie last year, and we saw they met up at the after-party for The Follies in London. Also, people who *are* friends with JM like her stand-in and double Danielle Sepulveres, and the series' most prolific director Rosemary Rodriguez who got the gig because JM liked her back from Canterbury's Law keep tweeting in friendly fashion with Archie. If Archie was the "difficult one" why are all her working relationships with the rest of the cast/crew so good?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, I stand corrected. Silly me, thinking that the creators of the show had any say to actors who become difficult.  And no, I'm not being sarcastic at you, Sydneyside, but at myself. Just picture me smacking myself upside the head.

 

I was also wondering where you've been all this time!

[Sydneyside]

Aww, I had no idea I'd been missed! Thank you :-)

I'd like to add to my collected tin-hatting above:

Since their first appearance on Twitter the show's writers account had the still of Alicia and Kalinda drinking from the Pilot as their avatar.

After JM threw down her "nothing left to explore" comment after the finale of S4, and the Kings said "we don't want to get into a public fight" etc, they changed it briefly to an image of Anonymous that they'd used in a recent episode, and then to what it's been ever since: Chummy the ChumHum mascot.

So anyone who thinks Kalicia shippers were delusional about the central nature of A/K should think about the fact that it was the image the show's creators used to symbolise what they'd written, until they were prevented from exploring that relationship anymore.

[whatsatool]

Who was responsible for the subversive scenes of Kalinda in the frozen foods aisle?

[OptimisticCynic]

Michael Ausiello confirms that they did not film the scene together. He doesn't mention if it was a source from set or how he received this info.

http://tvline.com/2015/05/15/good-wife-alicia-kalinda-finale-scene-julianna-margulies-archie-panjabi/

[pennben]

Yes.  We are are not the idiots they want us to think we are for questioning it.

[Sydneyside]

We're also not illiterates when it comes to the screen language TGW uses for shooting. They have never shot a "two people at a bar" scene like that, and everyone that watches the show with attention to detail knows it.

[pennben]

Honestly, that scene was insulting. And it was even more insulting that they said it would be "satisfying". 

[Kromm]

Michael Ausiello confirms that they did not film the scene together. He doesn't mention if it was a source from set or how he received this info.

http://tvline.com/2015/05/15/good-wife-alicia-kalinda-finale-scene-julianna-margulies-archie-panjabi/

I double dare that idiot at the Washington Post to write a new column calling Ausiello a "Truther" and a "Conspiracy Theorist".

[Sydneyside]

Honestly, that scene was insulting. And it was even more insulting that they said it would be "satisfying".

True dat. Why would watching Kalinda apologise *again* be satisfying? Why was there no acknowledgement from Alicia that she was the one who shut Kalinda out with no explanation after formally asking her "try to make this work" a season earlier?

What happened to the line that was in the promo? (Alicia saying "I have no friends, and I don't know why.") Was there a reason it was cut other than the usual last minute time-trimming? Did JM veto it?

[ACS]

I'm not one for treating the lives and conflicts of real people (who have not signed on to a reality show)like a spectator sport.  That said, Team Archie F.T.W! I'm enjoying the shit out of this speculation!  Thought I'd pile on Queen Julianna with some evidence of her unpleasantness that I've culled over the week and hasn't shown up here yet.

 

1.  "CBS's sexy "The Good Wife" clip gets press hot, Margulies bothered" - Found this lead on L Chat.  I am including because it's one more depiction of JM as self-serious, humorless and priggish.  Edited to add: corraborating sources for this incident (because it sounds OTT enough to be made up)  here and here.  She sounds like an effing.nightmare.

 

2.  Emmy Roundtable video -  Found this one on tumblr. JM starts talking about fandom at 4:10 and basically rants until the end of the video.

 

Clearly, part of her objection to the Kalicia-relationship-revival comes from her utter disdain the fans. (While I agree that writers should not be completely at the will of viewers), her tone and language are incredibly disrespectful.  She seems to think we are idiots.  If she called some of the shots about how they handled the conflict then it is no surprise at how unconvincing and ham-handed it was; she seems to have very little regard for the audience.She did use of the phrase "my writers" after all...  Contrast JM's attitude with how Archie talks about the fans and the fans commitment to these characters.  It really is like night and day.  I wonder if that contrast is in some way mixed up in this conflict.

Edited May 16, 2015 by ACS

[JodhaBai]

Read Michael Ausiello article on the whole thing and I'm kind of annoyed with his attitude of "I don't know what happened with the actresses nor do I care"

Isn't that part of his job?   To question what the heck happen and why the producers are feeding us BS

[cleo]

Yeah. Wow. That Emmy RoundTable video. I get not wanting writers to be swayed by popular opinion, I feel that way myself. But yes she sounds quite dismissive of fans just taking an interest, like those of us writing and analyzing. It's kind of insulting. No worries though, JM, I won't be taking an interest in future.

 

Her comments on Alicia and Kalinda- it did feel like there was an edge when she discussed it.
 

ETA: How awesome is John Hamm? Cause it has to be said. I wish she had let him continue to speak.

Edited May 16, 2015 by cleo

[meisje]

Count me in as satisfied to find someone (bless you madam or sir!) making it public that the watchers are indeed not a bunch of fruit loops scarring their DVRs looking for a reason to question the show's integrity! Something that struck me today after thinking about this mess (that I hadn't considered before) is the ungenerous spirit and narcissism of an actor whom herself managed to get gain breakout status on a hit network ensemble show, creating an environment where that type of opportunity is completely stamped out for another actor. That's just the lowest of lows, really. Yes, we're all lucky that The Fall has been available to US watchers, but if not for Netflix, this might be the only series in which the US audience would get the chance to see Archie Punjabi's work.

 

Man, I really wish some of the named actors had shoved Julianna off of ER before she ever became the great force in acting that she is today (cough... but seriously), and then Helen Hunt would have had the role as originally proposed (or many other actresses), and a great ensemble show could have left a great legacy. I'm so over JM's "let them eat cake" mentality that I can safely say I will FF through every Alicia scene next year if I find that I tune in. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater given all of the talent still on the show, but that bathwater is rank and needs to go! At least I won't be sad when the show ends, though it feels like it has already.

 

2.  Emmy Roundtable video -  Found this one on tumblr. JM starts talking about fandom at 4:10 and basically rants until the end of the video.

 

Thanks for posting this, it was a great group to listen to speak about their roles/shows. And wow, yeah Julianna, it really does suck when someone's personal feelings get in the way of the vision of the show, totally. Every other person who addressed that question had some notion of where the showrunner and audience meet except for Bitchy McComplainy-pants. Her response about how a woman would never end up the friend of another woman whom she knew slept with her husband is another example of how the problem the fans have with the show keeps getting bastardized by Julianna or the Kings: the issue was not about whether the two characters were besties, the issue was that one major character was systematically shut out of all ongoing plots and the show was altered for the worse and it went on for years. Jesus, if none of the actors in that room could make any headway, I can't imagine who's important enough to explain to her that she got it wrong? It was funny as well when she made the comment about what type of people had the time to give opinions on the show and the roles/characters: maybe types just like the husband who called in favors for you to sit in on cases Julianna, people whose jobs and lives overlap parts of the show (hence why it's compelling at all to an audience) and wanted to hail it when it did right and call it on its bullshit. Based on her career outside of TGW and ER, it's pretty safe to say her viewpoint won't be relevant for much longer. It would have been great if anyone else at that talk had asked her about how it felt when her other law drama got canned so quickly!

Edited May 16, 2015 by meisje

[merylinkid]

I do not get how actors can be dismissive of fans.   I get not wanting them to control things -- because you will never satisfy everyone.  But, if it weren't for fans of the show -- it wouldn't exist.   She has a very healthy regular paycheck because of fans.  

[crashdown]

Honestly, that scene was insulting. And it was even more insulting that they said it would be "satisfying".

 

 

 

That's the thing that gets me too--it's yet another instance of how stupidly and badly the Kings have managed this whole mess from the beginning of it.  They've said ridiculous, blatantly contradictory things right along, leading up to the absurd idea that the 50-episode separation between Alicia and Kalinda was intentional and designed to whet our palates for the final, boffo scene--when they should have known perfectly well that the scene was going to be anything but boffo.  I just read a comment to the effect that the show tells us every other episode how important it is to get ahead of a scandal story and control the narrative, and they've done a miserable job of getting ahead of THIS narrative, especially when they had two and a half years to get it done.  Their publicity people are so clueless about the perception of all this that they EVEN PUT THE A/K SCENE IN THEIR REEL AT THE UPFRONTS!  It boggles my mind.  And now they're faced with the further embarrassment of Ausiello, of all people, confirming the rumbling Internet rumors.  It's going to be a thing that people remember from the show when it's all over, and it never needed to get this far.

 

I know that Emmy roundtable video well--it made me furious when I first heard it, and I braved it again to see what I thought now.  What's hilarious to me (in a depressing way) is JM's pious insistence that forgetting what had transpired on the screen (she was talking about Peter and Kalinda's ONS) was sacrilege to a narrative.  But of course, she was perfectly happy to jettison the fact that Alicia and Kalinda spend seasons 3B and 4A doing a lot to repair their friendship when she decided that she would no longer do scenes with Kalinda; suddenly, what had transpired didn't matter nearly as much!

 

I've been doing some thinking about how I would have tried to handle the narrative problem, assuming that there was some cataclysmic break midway through season 4, such that the buildup of the relationship between Alicia and Kalinda could no longer continue.  There would be no believable way for Kalinda to hurt Alicia *again.*  I think the only thing that would have made sense would have been for Kalinda to have made (or better, ALICIA to have made) a drunken pass in that hotel room in Minnesota, one that happened in front of the viewers and not alluded to behind the scenes.  Then it would have made sense for both characters to avoid each other at work, and after work, for a good long time.  It would have been interesting, and it's something that fans might have accepted as plausible. It also would have fit into what I think the Kings' strategy might have been--I believe they always hoped that they could change JM's mind eventually.  A foolish optimism, that!

 

I think the Kings didn't want to write in the direction they've been forced to, but they've well and truly bought stock in JM's Kool-Aid factory. They're both on the board of JM's ALS fundraising organisation for instance. I think they saw the way the wind was blowing and stopped tacking into the breeze.

 

 

I think the whole thing is a real-life exhibit of a theme that we see over and over on the show: it sucks to be a grownup in a professional world, and it often requires us to do things that we hate to do.  I can't imagine that the Kings don't despise JM in their secret hearts, but you're probably right that they decided a little sucking-up would be better for them in the long run than a huge, public fight.  I think the biggest problem is that the Kings are consensus-builders, and you can't build a consensus when one of the parties in question is a terrorist at heart.

[Morbs]

Read Michael Ausiello article on the whole thing and I'm kind of annoyed with his attitude of "I don't know what happened with the actresses nor do I care"

 

And seriously, how could anyone not care?  I'd watch a 2 hour Dateline about the different theories.

[Janimo]

The more I read about what I perceive is JM's foolishness and pigheadedness, the sorrier I feel for Archie for having to put up with this for so long. I wish AP a long and successful career, and I'm gonna be along for the ride.

 

As for JM.....bleh. Maybe she can eventually get kicked off of or leave TGW and let Christine Baranski and the rest of the "non problem makers" shine with a spin off of some kind,.

Just my wishful two cents.

 

PS Thanks to those of you who post links to old articles as well as to those who express their opinions here, even if they might differ from mine. (Y)

[Sydneyside]

ETA: How awesome is John Hamm? Cause it has to be said. I wish she had let him continue to speak.

Totally.

Michael C Hall also looks clearly uncomfortable for the dissing of the fans that (indirectly) pay his bills. I loved him trying to explain that having a sense of longing isn't wrong.

[TimWil]

If Andy Samberg doesn't make a joke (or two or three) out of this during his opening monologue at the Primetime Emmy Awards then he won't be doing his job. Amy Poehler and Tina Fey would definitely have had the balls to make a joke of it if they were co-hosting the next Golden Globes.