Ratings, Scheduling, and Watching for Cancellation/Renewal

[topanga]

Maybe. FOX does own the show. They could be trying for syndication, which I doubt, because I never see reruns of the show aired. They really should put it back Monday's, since Minority Report will be gone, but again, that's FOX's launching ground for new shows.

 

I can't help but mourn at what could have been, if people focused on the right things. Instead, I can only quote some Smith's lyrics (I Know it's Over):

 

And I know it's over

Still I cling

I don't know where else I can go

It's over, it's over, it's over

I know it's over

And it never really began

But in my heart it was so real....

 

SH was special to me for very personal reasons, so it really kills me that the show is mostly likely done this year, and that everyone is so focused on the one thing, or complaining about minor aspects of the show, that they a) don't watch, therefore assisting the cancellation and b) miss the big picture.

 

At least I have the time now to get over the show myself, and move on, so to speak. C'est La Vie.

You're going to make me cry. 

[Morrigan2575]

I have no idea what the mid season shows look like but as of right now FOX owns all of their shows except for Gotham and Brooklyn 99.

I don't think FOX owning SH would benefit too much, unless they don't own any of their mid-season dramas.

[HalcyonDays]

I sympathize that you're hurting, but (1) MANY things were done wrong on this show, (2) none of those things were minor, (3) viewers abandoned the show in droves for those very reasons, and (4) the only people who missed the big picture were TPTB in charge of the show and the executives at FOX. 

 

Personally, I hope the demise of Sleepy Hollow teaches Hollywood that viewers like me will no longer tolerate the bait and switch of offering “diversity” only to retreat back to the same old same old as soon as they think they have a hit.

 

Thanks LydiaMoon1 for the sympathy. I appreciate it. SH is the reason I managed to climb out of a debilitating depression. Crazy, but true.

 

But that's the thing...but what is truly wrong with season 3?? Season 2, yeah I totally get. Season three, all people seem to focus on is a) SBR, b) Crane on dates with Zoe c) Crane's lack of job and most importantly d) No Ichabbie "apparently".

 

SBR amuses me now, since she is NOT sexy at all, and is essentially a plot point. What kills me is this. Everyone - EVERYONE lost their bloody minds over the casting announcement about Sexy Betsy Ross. Now I've been waiting about two weeks for a comment about this, and nothing - I didn't say a word because I wanted to see if someone else would post something...Jessica Camacho (Sophia) was promoted to main cast two weeks ago. Her casting announcement has the word "Sexy" in it's description. I've been waiting for the outrage, but there is none. None. Go figure.

 

Sexy is a universal term that Hollywood likes to apply to there female characters. To rant about BR having this "label" but not a peep for Camacho...very telling.

 

So what is "really" wrong with the show??

 

Is Pandora not calculating enough? She is (IMO) hand's down the best villian this show has had. Headless, however violent, just had a machine gun. That's it (not that I didn't love Headless!) Pandora is ruthless, calculating, evil, and very interesting. Hand's down the best of this show. Again, my opinion.

 

Is Abbie not featured enough? Pandora is targeting her specifically. We have information about her reluctance to be with Daniel. Her sister Jenny, is involved with some shady-ass situation,

that is going to affect Abbie directly!!

 

But hey, Ichabbie ain't happening NOW, so screw the show and all of the complexity (which is the mindset I've seen).

 

Ichabbie not happening right now...From comments and posts, yeah, that's what people think, but it's tainting their view of the show NOW. We have a beautiful season 3, with these little nuances and hints and teases that are all being ignored, all because Ichabbie isn't happening (Now). Breaks my heart.

 

I guess I'm finding that the true flaws and problems that people complained about in season 2, are being erroneously applied to season 3, but the so-called reasons's make no sense (to me).

 

This is a huge bloody shift for me - seriously.

 

That's all I got. Time to start the healing.....

[Rina99]

Fridays have less viewers that's why shows on Friday's have lower standards then the rest of the week. As such the odds that SH would pull the same numbers on Friday that it does on Thursday are low.

Not to mention SH moves to Fridays after a protracted break (2 months?) and in the Spring (when ratings are also notoriously lower).

 

I understand that expectations are lower on Friday.  It's at cancellation territory now on Thursdays, with ratings that would be ok on Friday.  But, I'm not that certain that the show will be able to maintain that rating level, particularly after the long break.

[cynic]

...SBR amuses me now, since she is NOT sexy at all, and is essentially a plot point. What kills me is this. Everyone - EVERYONE lost their bloody minds over the casting announcement about Sexy Betsy Ross. Now I've been waiting about two weeks for a comment about this, and nothing - I didn't say a word because I wanted to see if someone else would post something...Jessica Camacho (Sophia) was promoted to main cast two weeks ago. Her casting announcement has the word "Sexy" in it's description. I've been waiting for the outrage, but there is none. None. Go figure.

 

Sexy is a universal term that Hollywood likes to apply to there female characters. To rant about BR having this "label" but not a peep for Camacho...very telling......

I think the difference is that Jessica Camacho was not brought in with the fanfare that Nikki Reed was. Reed was doing the publicity circuit and the show was releasing photos and talking her up as being Crane's sexy partner. Crane already has a sexy partner and I'm not talking romantically. She was brought on with the fanfare of a character of great importance and people were alarmed, because we already went through Abbie getting shoved into the background once and it was fresh and we didn't have any idea what these showrunners would be like. By the time Camacho came in, that wasn't as much of a worry and Camacho was different anyway. Camacho is in a B storyline and didn't get that treatment. Neither did Daniel or Joe. Only Nikki Reed did.

 

As for what's wrong with season 3, I can only speak for myself, but I think the main issue is the lack of a real, fleshed out arc and no sense of urgency or danger. Sossamon has done a great job with what's she's given, but we're almost at the mid-season finale and we still don't know what she's after. What is her motivation? Why is she obsessed with the witnesses? What is she doing with that damn tree? What is her endgame? Who knows? I was interested at first. I don't really care anymore. Every episode has been essentially the same. She sends some random bad guy. It gets defeated. She gets another flower. Woo. Up until last week, there was no variation and no real feeling of progress. You could basically watch the episodes in any order. It would make little difference. Now that she has completed whatever the hell she was doing, I still don't know what she's after. She could be done for all I know. Oh yeah, I just needed these flowers so I could get into this tree. And none of these random MotW were very scary (save the tooth fairy). It seems like she wanted them to be defeated, so why would they be scary? And in turn, why would she be menacing? She could be on the side of good...or at least not super evil...for all we know. She could be trying to free the world from these things. 

 

I frankly miss creepy mirror shattering Moloch, his horse riding minions, and the threat of the apocalypse.

 

Ultimately though, we all watch shows for different reasons. I'm sad when the shows I enjoy are cancelled, but I don't really think it's fair to basically blame it on people "watching it wrong" or for giving up on it when it simply stops being enjoyable for them for whatever reason.

Edited November 12, 2015 by cynic

[HalcyonDays]

I frankly miss creepy mirror shattering Moloch, his horse riding minions, and the threat of the apocalypse.

 

Ultimately though, we all watch shows for different reasons. I'm sad when the shows I enjoy are cancelled, but I don't really think it's fair to basically blame it on people "watching it wrong" or for giving up on it when it simply stops being enjoyable for them for whatever reason.

 

I miss creepy mirror shattering Moloch too. Big time. The pilot was absolutely brilliant.

 

People are "watching it wrong", as you say, because of one reason and one only - shipping. I cannot believe I am saying this, but it is true. The moment that the Cliff interview quote went viral, people lost it and decided to never watch the show again. For many, it's not "enjoyable" because there is no hope of Ichabbie. I'm not joking. I do think there is an urgency that was lost, but no show can maintain that drive or momentum. But when I read countless comments (here and elsewhere) that blatantly state that they've bailed on the show, because no Ichabbie, then what is one to think?

 

It's absolutely fair, in the sense that it's fact. All I am doing is stating fact. It's not that people are watching it wrong, it's that people are so focused and obsessed with A, that they completely ignore B, even though B is what they should focus on. B are the clues and hints. A is just a smoke-screen. Yet A is all people care about.

[cynic]

I don't agree. I think shippers may be more vocal and active on the interwebs, but I think there are many reasons the show has lost five million viewers over 2.5 seasons and most of those people left quietly.

But let's say it's true and the bailing of the shippers is what sank this show, then it was also those same shippers that kept the show on the air for longer than it otherwise would have lasted, despite never getting what they wanted out if it. And if they want to watch something different now, maybe a show that will actually cater to them, one whose fandom will embrace them and their desires, then who am I to blame them for that?

I, for one, have been watching SH for the bonkers craziness, National Treasure-style conspiracy, secret supernatural war stuff which hasn't been much in evidence since halfway through season 1 (unless you count Betsy's lame cameos). Sometimes I wonder why I'm still sticking around. They replaced the machine gun wielding headless horseman, the apocalypse, the Hessians, the Freemasons, and Moloch with Pandora and her tree. I feel Spike seeing Acathla for the first time. It's a tree. I can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a tree this big.

[HalcyonDays]

I don't agree. I think shippers may be more vocal and active on the interwebs, but I think there are many reasons the show has lost five million viewers over 2.5 seasons and most of those people left quietly.

 

The first majority left because of too much emphasis on CFD. That's why season 2 really lacked. Many got sick and tired of it (us included), and decided to not bother anymore. I get that.

 

But let's say it's true and the bailing of the shippers is what sank this show, then it was also those same shippers that kept the show on the air for longer than it otherwise would have lasted, despite never getting what they wanted out if it.

 

Very true. Some who bailed were never completely invested, some who stayed are. The core shippers are the ones still (or were) with the show. Until that interview with CC. Then it was decided that no one cared anymore, that Ichabbie wasn't happening, therefore let's jump ship (ha!)

 

I hear you about the bonkers craziness - that was the best, but as I said - it's unsustainable. There were early season 1 episodes that were not that good, but certain parts were re-watchable (to me). Not all, certain parts. Season 1 was crazy, but save for a few episodes, most wasn't that good overall.

 

The fact that you mention BR (as everyone does) tells me that too many people are focusing on those few scenes to the detriment of the entire show, which is what I've seen these last few weeks. BR is a non-entity, a plot point. In the entire episode, she is a mere 1 minute of screen time yet everyone (here and elsewhere) always comments on her. Not anything else, just her.

 

You mention Pandora with the tree and imply that it's boring. Here's the thing. Her "tree" is a means to an end, that will will find out in the next one of two episodes. It isn't violence for violence sake. It's a slowly unfolding story with hint and clues being unveiled each episode. Headless can only be interesting in moderation. Pandora has been weaving a plan throughout these episodes, that many ignore, because everyone is focuses on SBR or Zoe or however. By focusing on the minor, people are missing the major. Just my opinion, on how I view the season.

 

Fact is, shows moved to Friday, will get poor ratings and will be cancelled. Sad, but true. Makes me sad, and brings back memories of Forever and Constantine (good shows, done before their time).

[vanarnd1]

I don't think really think you can say that Season 3 creatively or fan reaction to any event caused the show's decline. Looking back on it, Season 2 really did end up being the show's demise, even if they got 18 extra episodes after it. This season premiered to a 1.0, which is partly because FOX didn't go out of their way to promote but I think a lot of it just people checked out of the show because of the CFD in Season 2 despite the late improvement in the last 2 episodes. Even if Season 3 had been perfect, TPTB were fighting an uphill battle from the start and it was just too much to overcome.

 

Now despite that, in a lot of respects CC and company did not do themselves any favors with the some creative chocies plus how they engaged the fans. They still insisted on giving Ichabod a past and a present love interest despite what happened with Katrina, and the show hasn't really changed the dynamic where Ichabod is shown as being the more promient character (either through his role as witness or the more in depth focus on his relationships/emotions) even though Abbie often times props him up, and they were aloof and dissmissive of fans concerns, including not addressing/notcing potential racist tropes.

 

And in regards to shipping, I think people were annoyed not as much by not doing Ichabbie right away, it is that they would tease the audience by dropping the idea of a possible relationship, while not really having the intention of doing it. I think fans reacted to that CC interview because they are tired of being strung along and I can't really blame them. I mean even in Season 2 they would use Ichabbie cold opens to tease the fans while giving Ichabod his true love story with Katrina, and I think they are doing similar things now. And I think people would even be happy if they weren't together but they gave Abbie's love life as much of a focus as Crane's but that has not been the case.

 

I think if there is something to take from this, its that showrunners and people in charge need to actually listen to fans. There were warning signs from the fallout from the Season 1 finale, there was very clear outrage for most of Season 2 that could have been addressd much sooner, and Campbell could have taken more lessons of what not to do from Season 2 but has fallen into similar patterns as Goffman. The show realistically couldn't maintain the momentum from Season 1, but with better management the whole way through it could have hung in for longer than 3 seasons. Hopefully at least other shows can take lessons from SH, and espeically in regards to diversity as LydiaMoon1 said.

Edited November 12, 2015 by vanarnd1

[phoenics]

HD - the fans who quietly left during S2 didn't come back. And then we lost more fans in between S2 and S3.

I like this season - but the whole way they played up NR at the expense of NB before the show came back was STUPID. Fans didn't leave because of shipping (well, some might have), most left because of CFD and feeling like Abbie was being shoved to the sidelines. We're having this same debate over on The Flash board because some fans there think the reason people are angry about what's happening on that show this season is because of shipping when that isn't it - it's because the show's lead actress is being sidelined - in this case for a GUEST STAR! LOL. Nuts.

The other problem is that Sleepy Hollow miscalculated about who its fans were. I think they were trying to get a more male audience, when they actually had a HUGE Shonda Rhymes audience and that audience decided to stick with TGIT and Scandal actually got super duper good.

I watch SH live - when I can stream it via my iPad due to my foot injury - and catch up on Scandal later (and also rewatch SH). I binged through 4 Scandal episodes and at the end I just said, "Sleepy Hollow is toast".

I cannot tell you how many of my friends - most of them AA - watched and LOVED Sleepy Hollow. Fox miscalculated its demographic and is sadly paying the price - even if this season is WAY better than S2.

But the promotion was non-existent - half of my friends didn't know it was back.

It's not the "fans" who screwed up - it's Goffman first and then Fox. Fox NEVER should have allowed Goffman to go for so long the way he did. Honestly that man should be run up a flag pole and flayed = I cannot believe how he killed our show.

And btw - most Ichabbie shippers were fine with a slow burn - they just wanted hints of it. This season is totally bringing those - so I don't think this is about shipping. It's about too little, too late, bad marketing (no marketing) and the fact that they burned all their bridges with so many fans and worse, put it on at the same time as Scandal.

[cynic]

 

The fact that you mention BR (as everyone does) tells me that too many people are focusing on those few scenes to the detriment of the entire show, which is what I've seen these last few weeks. BR is a non-entity, a plot point. In the entire episode, she is a mere 1 minute of screen time yet everyone (here and elsewhere) always comments on her. Not anything else, just her.

I only mention BR because she was on my mind after we discussed her earlier when I responded to you bringing her up.I actually agree that she's become a non-entity. I think that TPTB realized that she doesn't work and her screen time has been cut. If the show was better in other aspects, I would happily ignore her.

 

 

You mention Pandora with the tree and imply that it's boring. Here's the thing. Her "tree" is a means to an end, that will will find out in the next one of two episodes. It isn't violence for violence sake. It's a slowly unfolding story with hint and clues being unveiled each episode. Headless can only be interesting in moderation. Pandora has been weaving a plan throughout these episodes, that many ignore, because everyone is focuses on SBR or Zoe or however. By focusing on the minor, people are missing the major. Just my opinion, on how I view the season.

 

I'm not implying, I'm flat out saying I'm bored by it. I'm fine with a slowburning storyline (I watched both Rubicon and the Killing for goodness sake), but it still has to be compelling and I just don't find the rest of it compelling. I do agree that Headless as a villain was unsustainable. That's why I was hoping that the show would expand the rest of the mythos. But they didn't. It feels so small now and the MotW are just not that interesting (to me). And since I'm not watching it enthralled like I used to, I notice all the things that don't work for me. It's sad. It's like falling out of love and realizing that the sound of your bf's breathing now annoys you.

[phoenics]

Yeah - the MoTW has never been my kind of thing... I miss the deeper mythology of the first season and the terror it invoked.

But I am still enjoying it, just not like I had been... hopes dashed, le sigh.

[kimberella]

Everyone - EVERYONE lost their bloody minds over the casting announcement about Sexy Betsy Ross. Now I've been waiting about two weeks for a comment about this, and nothing - I didn't say a word because I wanted to see if someone else would post something...Jessica Camacho (Sophia) was promoted to main cast two weeks ago. Her casting announcement has the word "Sexy" in it's description. I've been waiting for the outrage, but there is none. None. Go figure.

Sexy is a universal term that Hollywood likes to apply to there female characters. To rant about BR having this "label" but not a peep for Camacho...very telling.

I'm sorry, but this is not accurate at all. The journalist, who made the announcement on Hollywood Reporter, called her sexy. It was his own subjective opinion. Why would anyone be outraged about that?

 

In SBR's case, it was one of the producers describing Betsy as the one to bring the sexy and the smarts to the show. TPTB described her relationship to Crane as that between Mrs. and Mr. Smith, hinting at a romantic entanglement. They described her as the key to defeat the monsters. All of that has been proved true. I don't care that she has little screentime (is it any surprise after the fan outrage?), so did Katrina at first. She and her relationship to Crane were the first things they decided to promote and hype over everything else to an already traumatized audience. A character, who is clearly a Katrina replacement. The concerns were valid and right on the money, seeing how awful the character is.

 

Ichabbie not happening right now...From comments and posts, yeah, that's what people think, but it's tainting their view of the show NOW. We have a beautiful season 3, with these little nuances and hints and teases that are all being ignored, all because Ichabbie isn't happening (Now). Breaks my heart.

I don't blame the Ichabbie shippers for giving up. CC admitted he was baiting and switching on them, nothing true or deep to look forward to, which is the same Goffman did. So what if they got tired of getting played?

 

I had already given up on the show, by the time they published that interview anyway. It wasn't enough that Iscove shamelessly described Abbie as a black woman trope. I witnessed that debacle, in which he defended their decision to make her a work horse without a love life, while Ichabod could pursue multiple love interests. Then they had to add insult to injury, by making Abbie a match-freaking-maker for no good reason. Sorry, there is a good reason, they had to use her to sell yet another love interest of Crane's, just like Goffman used her to sell Katrina and the Epic Tru Luv between the Cranes. Gross. That's when I decided I couldn't do it anymore. If I need to be subjected to that narrative, I can watch hundreds of other movies and shows with black women playing little helpers, whose mission in life is to further their white companion's character and romantic development, while they get nothing themselves. Fuck that.

 

It's very telling that I had to wait until a crossover with a show I'm not interested in to see a character tell and show Abbie she is worth something.

 

Workhorse Abbie is not the only problem. They swept under the rug every problematic thing Crane has done, so that they don't have to improve the character and are trying to convince the audience he is great, because every woman (white, of course!) throw themselves at him, this cartoonish character, like he's some sex god. It doesn't seem to be drawing their target audience, as they intended. It could be because it's mindbogglingly stupid. The writers have stopped caring about continuity, world building, not to mention the "bond" between the Witnesses is more unbelievable than ever.

They had the chance to turn this show around, but Campbell chose to make an improved version of the same mistakes Goffman did. They chose to die from Crane on the Brain illness. Nothing has really changed. The only improvement, other than Pandora, is the lack of Katrina. That's it.

If they don't care, why should I? The show's failure is on them exclusively.

[LydiaMoon1]

But that's the thing...but what is truly wrong with season 3??

 

Sorry for the delay in replying.  In the words of Sheldon Cooper, I was AFK.  I can only speak for myself as to why I don’t like season 3, but here a short list off the top of my head.

 

• The Pace-I’m sure the showrunners thought they were going for intrigue and suspense this season, but the lack of urgency and action just makes the show seem boring to me.

• The Premise-Sleepy Hollow was built on the premise of two Witnesses banding together to turn back the biblical Apocalypse.  It was focused.  It was tight.  It was tingly exciting, and they hit the ground running.  Unfortunately, continuing to write an apocalypse story was apparently too hard for these writers, so what’s the show’s premise now? Does anybody know? Seriously, anybody?

• Pandora- She’s been wandering around whisper-talking for half a season now without any explanation. I might be more impressed with her if I could actually hear anything she says.  As it stands, all I really know about her is that she’ really into horticulture. Is that supposed to be scary? 

• Betsy Ross-Although her spots save the show from having to Forrest Gump Crane into every historical flashback, she is an unmitigated disaster.  I roll my eyes whenever she’s on-screen.

• Crane’s love life-I’m not interested in watching Crane go on dates.  I don’t like The Bachelor, so I’m really not interested in watching the colonial version.

• Worst of all, I still think the show treats Abbie like a sidekick.

 

The bottom line is that the show doomed itself from the time they decided to change directions in the second half of season one.  TBH, I don’t think there’s anything the show can do to please me as a viewer at this point, because the show I want to watch is the show they first gave me.  Absent that, I’m never going to be satisfied with these lessor versions they insist on presenting, and TPTB only have themselves to blame.

[Julia]

So I guess the question is, are there enough people who still hope that they'll make it work and hate watchers to keep it on the air.

 

I kind of hope so, because (and again, I don't have the baggage of almost all of season 2) I think would be a shame for a character as unusual for television as Abbie, and the unique opportunity the setup gives her to educate about structural privilege, to go out with the bathwater. And the current showrunner, although he was a bit tone deaf over the summer and _really_ has to do something to rein in the underlings in his writing room who are trying to become celebrities on Twitter, does seem to be willing to change course if he sees that things aren't working.

 

I think it has a chance. But, we'll see.

[LeeLeePanda]

I'm an eternal optimist. I'm enjoying this season for the most part. I like the slower pace. That being said, I hope that the show runners will pay attention to what fans are saying, and retool it a bit before they come back in February.

I also hope they will hype the move a bit. I did something I rarely do, and posted about the move on my Facebook. Why? Because I believe in the show that much. Again, eternal optimist. It ain't over yet.

Oh, I've posted this before, but I highly recommend joining Project Fox. They conduct surveys on all of the Fox owned shows, and there have been at least 3 this year on Sleepy Hollow. They also have a discussion page, and I'd say most of the people there have the same opinions most of us have. It's moderated, and the moderator will actually reply to posts in positive ways.

[Yolapukka]

 

 

Taking my answer to the therapy thread

Edited November 12, 2015 by yuggapukka

[icewolf]

Somewhat Sleepy Hollow related.

The Vampire Diaries and The Originals being moved to Friday nights on The CW in February. With Sleepy Hollow moving there too, looks like Fridays is becoming the night of Sci-Fi/Fantasy again like we had during Grimm's first season when it faced Fringe and Supernatural.

http://tvline.com/2015/11/23/vampire-diaries-originals-fridays-cw-schedule-2016/

[phoenics]

Somewhat Sleepy Hollow related.

The Vampire Diaries and The Originals being moved to Friday nights on The CW in February. With Sleepy Hollow moving there too, looks like Fridays is becoming the night of Sci-Fi/Fantasy again like we had during Grimm's first season when it faced Fringe and Supernatural.

http://tvline.com/2015/11/23/vampire-diaries-originals-fridays-cw-schedule-2016/

I think The Originals and Grimm will be the more interesting matchup. TVD is on its last legs - though I hate it that some fans will have to choose between supporting Bonnie vs Abbie. There is some crossover there. But given how TVD treats Bonnie/KG, I don't think it will be an issue. I hope. I refuse to watch TVD because I cannot stand Julie Plec and her attitude about Bonnie.

[icewolf]

Fox's Second Chance Moving to Fridays, to Be Paired With Sleepy Hollow

http://tvline.com/2016/01/22/second-chance-moved-to-friday/

[benteen]

If it wasn't for the fact that I checked its Wikipedia page in December, I would have had no idea that Sleepy Hollow was returning on Friday.

[HalcyonDays]

If it wasn't for the fact that I checked its Wikipedia page in December, I would have had no idea that Sleepy Hollow was returning on Friday.

 

I knew about it because I saw the announcement on Spoiler TV (I think), but the only advertising I've seen on TV is a quickie commercial adverting Fox Fridays that I saw this weekend. But they never mentioned the air TIME.

 

 But yeah, FOX should have put something a little more substantial out.

[LeeLeePanda]

I knew about it because I saw the announcement on Spoiler TV (I think), but the only advertising I've seen on TV is a quickie commercial adverting Fox Fridays that I saw this weekend. But they never mentioned the air TIME.

But yeah, FOX should have put something a little more substantial out.

Agreed. I wish they would do website banners. I think that's the right word for it. You can't miss them!

[greenbean]

Has anyone seen this new show Lucifer? I saw a trailer and it really reminded me of Sleepy Hollow, apparently one of the SH producers is involved.

 

 

It seems Fox is shoving SH out the door, and replacing it with this, no?

 

Anyway, to add to some of the discussion; I checked out after the CFD. I could see it coming as soon as they cast John Noble, because the same thing happened in Fringe, which was created by the same team. That was billed as having a great female lead, but really by the end it was all about the men.

[cynic]

Has anyone seen this new show Lucifer? I saw a trailer and it really reminded me of Sleepy Hollow, apparently one of the SH producers is involved.

It seems Fox is shoving SH out the door, and replacing it with this, no?

....

Jinx, green bean! Check out the last few posts in the After You, Leftenent thread. Edited February 2, 2016 by cynic

[DearEvette]

Per Tvline:

 

Fox’s Sleepy Hollow christened its new Friday home with 3.1 million total viewers and a 0.9 demo rating, ticking up from its fall finale (2.8 mil/0.8) and on par with its Season 3 average (3.3 mil/0.9) — where it until now benefited from having stalwart Bones as a lead-in.

 

 

If nothing else it proves it has a core of dedicated fans who will watch it wherever it goes.  On the upside, since Fox is also using twitter for ratings it is worth noting that Sleepy Hollow trended for three hours straight, spending probably an hour at #1.  i can't remember the last time it trended so prominently, maybe the S2 premiere?

Edited February 6, 2016 by DearEvette

[phoenics]

Per Tvline:

 

 

If nothing else it proves it has a core of dedicated fans who will watch it wherever it goes.  On the upside, since Fox is also using twitter for ratings it is worth nothing that Sleepy Hollow trended for three hours straight, spending probably an hour at #1.  i can't remember the last time it trended so prominently, maybe the S2 premiere?

You know if they would just advertise it - it might actually flourish there. Many people had no clue it moved. I spoke with a colleague at work and she didn't know it moved.

Literally - one promo on Empire would help the show so much. And honestly - they should really consider doing a marathon. Take S1 episodes, the good few ones from S2 and then S3.

I wonder what will happen when the DVR numbers kick in.

[LeeLeePanda]

Per Tvline:

If nothing else it proves it has a core of dedicated fans who will watch it wherever it goes. On the upside, since Fox is also using twitter for ratings it is worth nothing that Sleepy Hollow trended for three hours straight, spending probably an hour at #1. i can't remember the last time it trended so prominently, maybe the S2 premiere?

I'm really impressed with their social media team. They really go out of their way to engage with fans, and post news things a few times a day. I may be a bit biased since they featured one of my tweets about the shows scariest monster on all of their social media platforms yesterday. My Twitter was blowing up!

[Julia]

Ratings going up after a poorly-promoted move to Friday is pretty impressive. I'm looking forward to seeing the + numbers.

[jhlipton]

Ratings going up after a poorly-promoted move to Friday is pretty impressive.

 

Indeed. And Fox has said they don't go by same-day results (except for the X-Files reboot...)

[icewolf]

FOX moving Sleepy Hollow to Fridays turned out to be a VERY smart move.

 

0.9 rating is just down a little bit from the season 3 premiere (1.0 on a Thursday), AND lower ratings are more tolerated on Fridays. Looks like SH and Grimm actually helped each other last night with both being on Fridays. FOX might have just saved the show with the move.

[Trini]

Hmm, reminds of when everyone thought Fringe would die on Fridays, but it lasted two more seasons.

[CocoaGoddess]

The twitter presence last night was absolutely amazing, and I wonder if Fox was annoyed or thrilled about that. It seems like they're going out of their way to cancel it/not support it, but it's still slugging along. It was a top trending topic for most of the night, which is nothing short of amazing these days.

 

Twitter can't save a show, but it really proves that there's an audience there outside of Nielsen. If we can just make it to season 5 ... 

[vanarnd1]

A .9 exceed my expectations, I was worried the new time slot would cause a big drop.  The fact that FOX renewed Scream Queens, which was getting a .9 rating in the Tuesday slot in its first season has to mean Sleepy Hollow has a chance to be renewed if can remain stable. I just hope FOX hasn't already made up their mind by the fact that they switched it to Friday because last night showed there is still interest in the show

[DearEvette]

Fox made the big announcement in November that they will no longer use Live+Same Day ratings to determine their content:

 

The Live + Same Day rating does not reflect the way people are watching our series. It leaves out the vast majority of fans who choose to watch on DVRs, and virtually ignores those who stream our shows or watch on demand. And those viewers matter: Within a 7-day period, more than one-third of the broadcast 18-49 audience watches after the same-day window. Over 30 days, seven of our FOX series either double or more than double their same-day audience across platforms. And if you compare our total multiplatform audience this season versus last, we are up +14%.

 

 

 

and:

 

Looking ahead, we’re going to stop circulating the Nielsen Live + Same Day ratings, both internally and to press. We will not acknowledge them for any programming other than live events. We know that the daily external dialogue isn’t going to change right away, but internally, we can kick things off by shifting our own mindsets toward a more holistic measure.

 

 

source: http://deadline.com/2015/11/fox-live-same-day-ratings-stop-1201631918/

 

Sleepy Hollow tends to do very well in their +3 & +7 ratings.  In the past they've gone up as much as 70%, so it has got to be one of the seven they are talking about.  And a .9 on a Friday is impressive.  It was one of the better performing shows.  And while I don't think Twitter necessarily will save a show that really is on the chopping block, Twitter has shown itself to be an important enough measure of interest in a show that Nielsen calibrates it for ratings now.  And if Fox is looking at ratings as holistically as they claim, then they really can't discount Twitter as a factor.

Edited February 7, 2016 by DearEvette

[HalcyonDays]

FOX moving Sleepy Hollow to Fridays turned out to be a VERY smart move.

 

0.9 rating is just down a little bit from the season 3 premiere (1.0 on a Thursday), AND lower ratings are more tolerated on Fridays. Looks like SH and Grimm actually helped each other last night with both being on Fridays. FOX might have just saved the show with the move.

 

Yeah, I was bracing myself for a ratings hit due to Friday, but not even close. It actually did better than Novo Ordus Seclorum, the episode before the winter break. So there is hope. plus, the Live +3 and +7 numbers make a difference too.

 

Basically, if it's economically feasible and profitable for FOX to keep SH, they will.

[Morrigan2575]

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/02/ratings-news-13th-february-2016.html?m=1

0.7/3.17 million viewers

Edited February 13, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Julia]

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/02/ratings-news-13th-february-2016.html?m=1

0.7/3.17 million viewers

 

Hard to believe Nikki Reed is the ratings champion of the Somerhalder household. That has to be awkward. 

[phoenics]

I wish Fox would advertise it more - those demos and ratings would go up quite a bit.  But honestly, the ratings aren't bad for Friday night.

[cassandle]

Yeah, they really are terrible about that--I haven't seen any ads for it even though I watch a lot of other Fox shows.  I didn't even realize it had come back last week until my DVR kicked on and I switched channels to see what on earth was recording.  

[Enero]

Does anyone know what the DVR+3, +7 ratings looked like for last week's episode? I couldn't find anything on these when I looked.

It really is too bad about the drop in ratings but as been said FOX is not promoting this show at all, which sadly might not bode well for a renewal. I think even when Fringe was hanging on by the nails of its very dedicated cult following on Friday nights, FOX still promoted the hell out of that show. They're not doing any promotion for SH except on Twitter which IMO is just not good enough. They should at least have a few TV ads specifically during the X-files and Lucifer or on the cable stations. I've seen tons of ads for X-files and Lucifer on FX and A&E but nothing for SH.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Enero

[phoenics]

Does anyone know what the DVR+3, +7 ratings looked like for last week's episode? I couldn't find anything on these when I looked.

It really is too bad about the drop in ratings but as been said FOX is not promoting this show at all, which sadly might not bode well for a renewal. I think even when Fringe was hanging on by the nails of its very dedicated cult following on Friday nights, FOX still promoted the hell out of that show. They're not doing any promotion for SH except on Twitter which IMO is just not good enough. They should at least have a few TV ads specifically during the X-files and Lucifer or on the cable stations. I've seen tons of ads for X-files and Lucifer on FX and A&E but nothing for SH.

 

There was no adjustment in the ratings for last week's episode.  That actually surprised me.  

 

And a lot of fans didn't know SH got a S3 either.

[HalcyonDays]

Does anyone know what the DVR+3, +7 ratings looked like for last week's episode? I couldn't find anything on these when I looked.

 

I can't find a proper link anywhere, but CC retweeted a tweet about One Life.

 

Just got the numbers. The Friday premiere of #SleepyHollow grew from a 0.9 rating to a 1.4 after three days of delayed viewing.

 

That's pretty good.

 

One Life has 3.13 million viewers and a 0.9 demo. Stone Manor has more viewers - 3.17 million - but the demo dropped to 0.7.

 

ETA: Interesting. SpoilerTV and TVLine have changed their cancellation predictions for the show from "sure to be gone" to a toss-up. Could be some hope.

 

This is the closest I could find listing SH. Scroll to the bottom. It had total Live +3 viewership of 4.5 million, which from last season, usually translated to about a 1.4 demo.

[jhlipton]

Fox made the big announcement in November that they will no longer use Live+Same Day ratings to determine their content:

 

And then when X-Files got massive Same Day ratings, they posted that all over the internets.

[cynic]

Where are you seeing the update for TVBytheNumbers? The most current that I could find was from 02/09/16 and has Sleepy Hollow at "Likely to be Cancelled". http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/02/09/fox-renewcancel-standings-week-20-2015-16/

 

SH does have a few things going for it. It's owned by Fox and it's in its 3rd season. That would normally make it a strong contender to be renewed due to syndication Unfortunately, it has had fairly short seasons. It's only going to have 49 episodes by the end of season 3. We'll see what happens.

[HalcyonDays]

Here's SpoilerTVs - it's now in yellow "In danger", not red "Likely to be cancelled" Two week ago it was red.

 

Sorry, not TVByTheNumbers, I meant TVLine. The two sites are very similar. They've switched SH to a 'could go either way'.

 

TVByTheNumbers still have it as likely to be cancelled, but they are the most cautious of the bunch. You are right though, about the fact that FOX owns the show, has 3 seasons in it. etc. Also, there are the filming incentives, and the fact that a lot of FOX shows are doing poorly. Also depends on what pilots FOX picks up.

[phoenics]

I sure hope you're right HD. I don't want to see this show cancelled.

[HalcyonDays]

I sure hope you're right HD. I don't want to see this show cancelled.

 

Neither do I! I keep flipping back and forth between pretty certain it's done, to having hope there is still a chance for renewal. Today, it's hope.

[cynic]

Here's SpoilerTVs - it's now in yellow "In danger", not red "Likely to be cancelled" Two week ago it was red.

 

Sorry, not TVByTheNumbers, I meant TVLine. The two sites are very similar. They've switched SH to a 'could go either way'.

 

TVByTheNumbers still have it as likely to be cancelled, but they are the most cautious of the bunch. You are right though, about the fact that FOX owns the show, has 3 seasons in it. etc. Also, there are the filming incentives, and the fact that a lot of FOX shows are doing poorly. Also depends on what pilots FOX picks up.

Ugh, I have no idea why I thought that said TVBytheNumbers. I'd be curious to see the relative accuracy rates of the various predictor sites. TVBTN may be conservative, but TVLine had the Good Wife as a "safe bet" and it just got cancelled, so who knows.

 

Yes, Fox would have to pick up a ton of pilots if they got rid of all their poorly performing shows. That definitely works in SH's favor. It's fortunate for them that neither Minority Report and Second Chance performed. 

[netlyon2]

*whisper:  I miss Minority Report.*  *sheds a single tear*