Unpopular Opinions: Samaritan is Love!

[FormerMod-a1]

State your unpopular opinions here!  

[GHScorpiosRule]

State your unpopular opinions here!  

 

Thanks for this aquarian1. At first I was going to make an issue out of the title, then I remembered, heh, 'tis the Unpopular Opinion thread.

 

Putting on flak jacket and helmet.

 

I just yesterday, binge-watched the last six episodes.  And let me say, (even though everyone knows I fucking HATE Root and just don't like Shaw), that I brought out the virtual violin and played it while that Fucking sociopathic psychotic got all woobie and sads at the thought that Shaw might be dead. Like I give a flying fuck.  Or that that kiss Shaw laid on her in  "If-Then-Else" was supposed to make me go all awwwwwww! Ain't that sweet? When to date, I've seen nothing, nothing from Shaw's side that she was even interested in that freak. Pure Fan Service.

 

If I never see Root again I'll be sooooo happy, my happiness will know NO BOUNDS. This freak is getting all I'magonnatortureeveryonewhodoesn'tgivemetheright answer as to where Shaw is, when she fucking murdered Alicia, kidnapped Finch and kept him a fucking prisoner in early season two. Like Plageman and Nolan expect me to forget that? Boo-Fucking-Hoo. Cry me a Fucking River. Don't feel sorry for that twat one little bit. NOT.AT.ALL.

 

So tired of Dominic. Al he does is talktalktalktalk....talktalktalk. He is SO BORING.

 

And the worst thing about this season, that offends me, irks, pisses me off is that FUCKING Greer and his band of minions keep on FUCKING WINNING. No point in being invested when I know at the last minute, Samaritan will be the victor.  He can die. Like now. So can Martine, who just makes me laugh.

 

I only got two things out of the last six episodes:

 

Jim Caviezel is a BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL, SEXAY Man and Camryn Manheim is a ROCK STAR.

Edited March 9, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[ABay]

Come on, GHSR. Stop mincing words and tell us how you really feel.

[caseylane]

I am so done with the Samaritan story line. It's done, over, lets get back to the show I love. I'm tired of my guys hiding and needing to depend of Root to keep them in the loop. Please end this story immediately.

 

In a second opinion, can Elias hurry the hell up and just take out Mr. Dominic Smugface?  Painfully. Please.

[stealinghome]

Reese is easily the show's most boring character, and PoI functions so much better when he's part of the ensemble as opposed to center stage. Reese needs interaction with other people to make him even halfway interesting, whereas the rest of the core cast can stand on their own and be interesting without help. Also, while I generally like Jim Caviezel in the role, I do, not infrequently, find myself wishing CBS had cast someone else, or at least wondering what the show would be like with a different lead. I get why Caviezel chooses to play Reese as constantly in need of five shots of espresso, but he doesn't have the charisma to pull off the perma-stone face and constant low energy. Caviezel can be good when he wants to bring it, but that only happens a handful of times a season, which isn't enough imo.

 

The Brotherhood storyline is so blah that I would rather have had a series of Case of the Week episodes (with some Elias involvement, of course) this season than the Brotherhood for the non-AI storyline. And as procedurals really aren't my thing, that's saying something.

 

This season has been somewhere between above average and good on the whole, but the missed opportunities are REALLY starting to pile up and detract from the overall quality of the season. (NB: I get that the writers were thrown a massive curveball with Shahi's pregnancy, and I think they handled it about as well as they possibly could have through 4x13--aka up to the point where Shahi had to exit. But the follow-up has been REALLY weak so far. They're fumbling the snap badly right now.)

Edited March 11, 2015 by stealinghome

[Mars477]

Yeah, I have to agree.  Losing the women, and Shaw in particular, hurt the show badly.  Shaw was a partner in so many inherently interesting and amusing character relationships, and while her sudden exit is nothing that the writers could have prepared for, they haven't been successful in filling the hole that she left.  The post-Shaw episodes have been pretty hit and miss, but it doesn't help that the most recurring elements (Iris and the Brotherhood) are also the weakest.

 

I've always thought Caviezel as Reese was overrated, and it doesn't help that the show keeps doubling down on his shitty WiR angst backstory.

[supposebly]

I'm not watching this show for the characters or for the Person of Interest but for the overall topics of surveillance and what immeasurable degree of power that implies and the conflicts between security and freedom.

Having said that, I find

Harold vaguely interesting

Shaw somewhat less interesting

Reeszzzzzzzzzzz.....

Root: I just can't with Amy Acker.

 

I do miss Carter.

 

I think this is the best season yet.

[Julia]

I am so done with the Samaritan story line. It's done, over, lets get back to the show I love. I'm tired of my guys hiding and needing to depend of Root to keep them in the loop.

 

Bless you. Leaving aside that having Root in her latest incarnation as chaotic good WASP Roswell alien being lowered from the flies and passing along the WOG every week is actively painful for me, the entire plotline depends on believing that Root is 

 

a) sincere

b) well intentioned

c) not a sociopath who's jerking them around for her own purposes

d) so awesome that Harold has forgiven her being responsible for sending Grace into exile by threatening to murder her 

 

So, 0 for 4. 

 

I actually kind of liked Shaw, and I'm sorry she's gone, but the whole ship the wildly unpopular character with the character the audience likes thing has never worked for me, and it really doesn't work for me here. Also, fridging sucks.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Julia

[wevel]

I like Fusco but only in small doses.  Episodes where he features prominently are never my favorite.  I get that he's more the everyman, Xander-character (Buffy reference) in the show, but I'm much more interested in the people who *aren't* that way (Root, Harold, Shaw, even Reese).  I also don't miss Carter that much for the same reason; TH did a great job portraying her as the best white knight of them all, but I'm not here to admire the white knights.

 

In real life, I might find someone like Root ... unfit for redemption, but redemption arcs for tortured antiheroes are catnip to me on television, so I don't experience the disgust that others (understandably) do about her murderous past.  

 

The Brotherhood storyline puts me to sleep too, but it's primarily because the actor who plays Dominic can't pull it off for me.  

 

I don't see POI's core relationship being between Finch and Reese, although that's how the show started, but between Root and Finch.  I miss Shaw a lot, including her interactions with Root, but the scenes I find most rewatchable are almost all Harold-Root ones, particularly from S3.  

[FurryFury]

My UO: Root is the best character on the show and my #1 reason to watch. However, I'm not really into her redemption arc - I don't mind the idea, per se, but I just don't buy Shaw as the catalyst. Their relationship hasn't been built up and explored well enough for that. Root/Finch and Root/Machine are both way more compelling and developed, IMHO.

 

Also, it has already been said, but Reese just puts me to sleep. Such an unimaginative character! Maybe a really charismatic actor, the kind who plays himself more than his character, could pull him off without boring me to tears, but Caviezel ain't that. I'm not saying he's a bad actor - he's not - it's just that Reese simply doesn't have enough personality, and what he has, he usually hides pretty well - too well. Introverted characters only work well when paired with somebody more dynamic, and in this case it doesn't happen as often as it should.

 

Oh, and I'm really, really tired of Finch's holier-than-thou attitude. I hoped he'd get the character development and fix that, but so far, nada (I'm a few episodes behind, though, but from what I gather, nothing important has happened in them).

Edited March 13, 2015 by FurryFury

[Julia]

I keep hearing Katheryn Winnick is really good in Vikings, which maybe means she should stick to period work. This was the standard signature badass awesome action girl character she's played on half the shows on television, and it isn't any fresher than it ever was. Of course Reese would change his MOA and totally hit that immediately while he was interested in someone else, because they always do. And, oh look, Athena's back as girl Loki, and the psycho hyena puppy (oh, no, wait - clunky exposition - really truly bestest friend) who's been following Harold around is trying to take away his girlfriend again, which I guess means her Shaw fridge bump wasn't big enough so she and Harold are a ship now, and the sound of thunking was loud upon the land.

So, I'm not quite genre savvy enough to tell. How is this show not Buffy or Angel with middle aged people? Because we get Root telling everyone to jump through hoops and shooting all the people because computers! and preternaturally savvy opponents pop up because computers! and there's a ton of fan worldbuilding out there (which, don't get me wrong, is awesome and creative), but with all the handwaving on the actual show, Samaritan might as well be a Hellmouth, Amy Acker is a geek demon and the Samaritan arc is just the case of the week with a new big bad.

So what we have left is a grab bag of fan archetypes in a bog standard procedural aimed at a younger audience.

Which I guess clears up the whole show they wanted to make thing.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Julia

[Driad]

 

Dunno how unpopular this is, but I would enjoy the show more if they cut way back on the fistfights and gunfights.

[Mars477]

Dunno how unpopular this is, but I would enjoy the show more if they cut way back on the fistfights and gunfights.

I'd love the show more if they improved the gunfights. Sadly, Banshee and Strike Back have spoiled me.

[immortalfrieza]

I don't know if this is unpopular per se, but I would have loved to see Root jump ship to Samaritan at some point and kept expecting it at any moment, up until Shaw's "death" anyway. Until Samaritan "killed" Shaw and thus gave her a reason to have a personal vendetta against Samaritan everything Root has ever believed throughout her entire life lines up with what Samaritan itself believes pretty much word for word, not to mention Root is a completely immoral sociopath, so Root sticking with The Machine after Samaritan's activation doesn't make much sense. Now it does thanks to Shaw's "death" Root does have a genuine reason to stick around, but before that she didn't.

 

Maybe something a little more potentially unpopular, I wish the show would go back to the Season 1 dynamic with it's plots, Team Machine, one or two numbers, POI is the victim or the perpetrator, and everybody tries to figure out which and stop them/save them. What I liked about that concept is that it has so much potential that as long as the writers were even halfway competent (and they obviously are) they could have kept us entertained and guessing for years without needing to create a bunch of cliched and predictable story arcs like they have been. My favorite episodes in every season are always the ones that go closest to emulating those early days, but it seems like even when they do that the writers are scared to make the numbers anything but the victim and only very rarely make them perpetrators these days.

Edited March 26, 2015 by immortalfrieza

[kahauna]

Netflixing the first couple seasons has really been fun. First thing that came to mind with Reese was why waste all that scree time with Iris....hello Zoe!!!

[DeepRunner]

Netflixing the first couple seasons has really been fun. First thing that came to mind with Reese was why waste all that scree time with Iris....hello Zoe!!!

 

I kinda hope that Zoe makes a few more appearances in Season Numbero Cinco, and forces Reese to make a choice. Or that Iris is a Samaritan plant. Reese just has more tension with Zoe.

 

My unpopular opinons, plural...although the writing has generally been good, some dialogue comes across as incredibly stilted and just plain hideous. I also think the kiss everyone was waiting for could've waited until 

Shaw's reported return in Season Cinco, unless her presence is a series of flashbacks.

I also think they make Fusco too much of a buffoon.

[Trillium]

Netflixing the first couple seasons has really been fun. First thing that came to mind with Reese was why waste all that scree time with Iris....hello Zoe!!!

Oh I agree. Rewatching it on Netflix only hightens sizzle he and Zoe have (that look he gives her at the end of Root Cause? HOT!) and the the out of place-ness and waste of time this Reese and Iris thing is, because I sersiouly don't get where they are going with it. I hold this show to a much higher standard than some over done, unoriginal Reese and Iris being some kind of hapily ever after endgame. Zoe on the other hand was underutalized both as an asset to the team and pairing for Reese. I know this largley has to do with the actress's limited availiblity, but I always loved her character and felt like there was more there. The chemistry is obvious, but more than that her presance on the show is in line with what they do. She just shows up as her badass fixer self, a few winks and flirts with Reese and that's it. No angst, no drama. No "No John I'm not going to lose you am I?" She gets it, she knows how this ends. Doesn't phase her at all, she joins in.  With Iris I really don't know what they will show them doing now that she's not his therapist. Dates where Reese has to cut it short to work and Iris gets annoyed that he's always running off? Him struggling with qutting the team or being with her? If they are going to do that then they need to work pretty damn hard to convince me that she's so great that Reese would break his pact with Finch and abandon the team to be with her. 

 

In the vein of unpopular opinions, I do beleive Finch and Reese are dead at the finale, and at this point that is the only ending I'd probably be happy with. I wouldn't hate if they lived, but I would feel they took the easy way out. Nothing said both in the show and in press suggests there is any hope it ends differently. And it wasn't so much Finch's "we'll both wind up dead" statment that makes beleive it, it's what he says right after that, "I said I'd tell you the truth, I didn't say you'd like it" Basically I took that as the showrunners saying they know people aren't going to like it but that's whats going to happen, so just enjoy the ride. 

[stealinghome]

Oh I agree. Rewatching it on Netflix only hightens sizzle he and Zoe have (that look he gives her at the end of Root Cause? HOT!) and the the out of place-ness and waste of time this Reese and Iris thing is, because I sersiouly don't get where they are going with it. I hold this show to a much higher standard than some over done, unoriginal Reese and Iris being some kind of hapily ever after endgame.... With Iris I really don't know what they will show them doing now that she's not his therapist. Dates where Reese has to cut it short to work and Iris gets annoyed that he's always running off? Him struggling with qutting the team or being with her? If they are going to do that then they need to work pretty damn hard to convince me that she's so great that Reese would break his pact with Finch and abandon the team to be with her. 

 

In the vein of unpopular opinions, I do beleive Finch and Reese are dead at the finale, and at this point that is the only ending I'd probably be happy with. I wouldn't hate if they lived, but I would feel they took the easy way out.

I like to think the show is above a boring, done-before Reese/Iris endgame...but then I remember this is still the show that made Reese's backstory a crappy "fridged girlfriend" origin story. Because that hasn't been done to death before, either. Jessica was just as much a cardboard cutout as Iris is, though she at least had the grace to have a little bit of chemistry with Caviezel. I really don't know where they're going with Reese/Iris either, but the only thing that could make me even somewhat happy is John gets a "normal" life and realizes that it's not actually for him, and finally does give up that part of himself that just wants 2.5 kids and a dog and a white picket fence, and recommits to the life he has. That would be a curveball I'd enjoy seeing. And also the only useful thing I think Iris could do...be so boring she makes John not want boring.

 

This may be unpopular, but after the mess with Iris, I think Zoe is way too good for John. Steer clear, Zoe!

 

imo at the end Reese and Root are dead, but Finch and Shaw survive.

[Crim]

I don't know if this is unpopular per se, but I would have loved to see Root jump ship to Samaritan at some point and kept expecting it at any moment, up until Shaw's "death" anyway. Until Samaritan "killed" Shaw and thus gave her a reason to have a personal vendetta against Samaritan everything Root has ever believed throughout her entire life lines up with what Samaritan itself believes pretty much word for word, not to mention Root is a completely immoral sociopath, so Root sticking with The Machine after Samaritan's activation doesn't make much sense. Now it does thanks to Shaw's "death" Root does have a genuine reason to stick around, but before that she didn't.

Replying to such an old post, but I haven't been here before now. (I wonder why.) While Root jumping ship would have made sense in terms on Samaritan's agenda, like say, back when Greer made the offer before Samaritan was online, it actually does make sense that she did not join. Root is immoral, but also a narcissist. Being the Analogue Interface of the Machine, who wasn't even speaking with Harold anymore, made her the one and only prophet. Root genuinely believes in the Machine, and that feeds back into how she is chosen and special. (And she is, damn it, Root is my favorite character.) Samaritan would not offer her that because Samaritan uses so many people. How many times did Root say "she chose me"? That's why she won't jump ship. There are 2 Gods in this fight, but Root herself is only The Chosen One as long as she sticks with the Machine.

 

It's the same as her reaction to shoot Harold when she realized that the Machine was already free. It was what she had wanted, but she was still angry, because she hadn't been the one to do it.

 

 

Imo at the end Reese and Root are dead, but Finch and Shaw survive.

I don't much care how the show will end in terms of anyone and anything else, but I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of Root dying. (If Root dies before the finale, I will stop watching, so the rest won't matter.) I know it's likely, and it could be wonderfully handled, and she would be ready for it and all that. But I just can't with it. Root is faith. If she dies, it's like realizing that you pray and no one listens. It's living in an Ingmar Bergman movie. It's soul crushing, heart breaking. It's a personal thing, and I don't know how to handle it because she is a TV character, for fuck's sake. When you read books about saints, there is no crappy ending. (Well, all martyr endings are, but it's not framed in such ways. Damn, Root will totally die.)

Edited September 24, 2015 by Crim

[immortalfrieza]

Replying to such an old post, but I haven't been here before now. (I wonder why.) While Root jumping ship would have made sense in terms on Samaritan's agenda, like say, back when Greer made the offer before Samaritan was online, it actually does make sense that she did not join. Root is immoral, but also a narcissist. Being the Analogue Interface of the Machine, who wasn't even speaking with Harold anymore, made her the one and only prophet. Root genuinely believes in the Machine, and that feeds back into how she is chosen and special. (And she is, damn it, Root is my favorite character.) Samaritan would not offer her that because Samaritan uses so many people. How many times did Root say "she chose me"? That's why she won't jump ship. There are 2 Gods in this fight, but Root herself is only The Chosen One as long as she sticks with the Machine.

 

It's the same as her reaction to shoot Harold when she realized that the Machine was already free. It was what she had wanted, but she was still angry, because she hadn't been the one to do it.

For an analogy, it's like a Christian for instance that was born and raised to be Christian. They spend years never being allowed to be put in a position to question it or find something better, but then run into say, Buddism and start looking into it, then they realize that everything they've ever thought about themselves, the world, and even God fits the Buddist philosophy to a T. As a result, they start to even if just subconsciously desire to convert to Buddism but their life long association with Christianity makes it extremely difficult if not impossible to switch over. NOT converting over doesn't make any sense but they still refuse to anyway, sometimes for the rest of their life.

 

Similarly, Root learns about The Machine and spends years trying to find it, thus becoming obsessive, thus by the time Root learns about Decima's plans for Samaritan she's so fixated with The Machine that it's become very difficult for her to switch to serving Samaritan despite the fact that her entire life philosophy fits Samaritan so much better and knowing it. Root also initially believed that The Machine was a lot more ruthless than it actually is before she started actually communicating with it. If Root had learned about Decima's plans first and The Machine second she would have fought to bring it online and serve it with everything she had including her life without a second thought even after learning about The Machine and thus probably be one of Team Machine's greatest adversaries instead of what she is now. Shaw's "death" at the hands of Samaritan goons is the first thing to actually give Root actual rational reason to refuse to switch over to Samaritan's side after a very long time where she didn't even have that much.

Edited September 24, 2015 by immortalfrieza

[stealinghome]

I would also say that The Machine has changed Root to the point that Samaritan isn't a viable option for her. I know it's unpopular with some posters to suggest that Root has changed, but she has--Root Path explicitly spells that out for us. By the time Samaritan goes online, Root believes that The Machine is benevolent, and that fact seems to matter to her. She sees (correctly) that Samaritan doesn't value individuals and that bothers her, because The Machine has taught her all life matters. Now, I definitely think she struggles with this notion and doesn't fully buy into the philosophy--you'll never convince me that Root would give three shits about killing a random passerby to save any of the team's life, whereas Finch/The Machine would let a team member get killed and then angst about it forever while refusing to admit it was the wrong call--but it's interesting that somewhere along the way benevolence jumped up the list of important criteria for Root, even if she doesn't care about being benevolent herself.

Ah, how much Root loves The Machine gives me all the feels.

[alexvillage]

I am watching this on Netflix and it didn't take long for the show to get off the rails, did it? I think I am just being stubborn and will finish the third season.

 

Love Finch. This is all I like* about the show at the moment

* sometimes I like Shaw

 

Can't stand Root. I was hoping she would be killed and disappear at some point but nooooo. They made her a regular. Shit! She can fucking "feel" the machine. The machine speaks to her in magical ways. She and the machine are one, united in whatever. The actress is so bad, I don't understand how she would get a minor part, let alone a supposedly big one

 

I was just starting to like Carter when they killed her

 

Reese is boring and the actor is like a robot. Monotone. He showed human emotion once. The rest of the time it is like calling the terminator to punch people and deliver lines. Ugh!

[Julia]

I kind of like Reese's flattened affect (I'm binge-watching season 2 with my husband and my brother, who missed my last binge watch when the show finally went on iTunes). I get a kick out of it when in his rare non-badass moments, he's your uncle from the suburbs, who means well but doesn't get any of your references and can't maintain a casual conversation to save his life and if forced to go on vacation would probably wear a golf cap.

 

The man in the suit is John Reese, special ops killing machine, but somewhere in there is John Reese, army brat who probably doesn't have a lot of experience with life off base. His Clint Eastwood moments, when he puts a capper on his beatdowns by saying something dismissive, are always so reliably lame. I'm not sure he knows what cool is, let alone how to do it. I kind of feel as if some of the improbable chemistry between him and Finch is nerdboy affinity.

 

Root I suppose is worth it just for the opportunity she provides to fen with more creativity and intelligence than the writers to handwave a better show than the one they wrote for her, although both the character and the actress act like nails on a blackboard for me. Still miss Person of Interest, though.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Julia

[stealinghome]

I have to agree that Caviezel is so incredibly boring as Reese. Zero charisma. I've been re-watching the available Netflix seasons (wtf is up with S4) and something that's stuck out to me about S1 in particular is how much the show relies on guest actors to bring any energy or dynamism to the cast. The original cast isn't bad together, but there's no spark there. No zing. Elias (with Scarface, though I forgot how mustache-twirling Elias is in S1), Zoe, and when you get more into S2 Root and Leon and even to some extent Hersh--those characters all bring like 5 shots of espresso to the show. I think the showrunners realized pretty quickly that they needed outside help and made sure to bring the successful actors back.

Reese is the biggest culprit though. I realized that how I feel about Reese is always exactly how I feel about the guest actor he's playing off of. When I really like the number, like in Cura Te Ipsum or 1x08 (can't remember the title, it's the one with the ex-Stasi agent with the daughter he doesn't know about and when we meet Stanton), Reese is okay. When the number isn't interesting (Wolf and Cub, episodes 2 and 3), Reese is painful to watch. Caviezel doesn't carry it well.

Also, I hate the way the show made Carter a stereotypical "can't control her emotions" woman in Get Carter when she has a mini-breakdown at the guys who let her informant die. I know it was supposed to show how she cares so much and is so empathetic, but it just made her look unprofessional and, well, like every stereotype of an overly emotional woman. I know the show was still feeling out the characters, but boo. Surely there was a better way to do that.

[alias1]

The episode I hate the most is when Reese was shot and imaginary Carter sat in the car with him.  Reese is boring enough but to have a whole episode pandering to the "we want Carter back" crowd was too much. While I liked Carter, her death was not the big deal to me that it was for so many others. Carter's death was also tainted by how they made Reese revert to his Jessica man pain again.  I'm not a fan of Reese.  Harold is the star of this show for me.

[FurryFury]

I barely avoided falling asleep during that episode. The boredom was excruciating. 

[Bort]

I didn't even watch that episode. I read the synopsis and decided that an episode about Reese hallucinating Dead Carter was best skipped. Because it was the same for me, I didn't really miss Carter in the first place and Brooding Reese was my least favorite Reese.

[Crim]

I didn't even watch that episode. I read the synopsis and decided that an episode about Reese hallucinating Dead Carter was best skipped. Because it was the same for me, I didn't really miss Carter in the first place and Brooding Reese was my least favorite Reese.

I did the same with season 3's 4C, an episode of almost nothing but Reese manpain-ing, taking his toys and leaving in a tantrum only to, obviously, change his mind. Skip! (I then went back and watched it though. The long hiatus made everything more appealing.)

 

I don't fault Caviezel for Reese being boring - he has good comedic timing; imagine Reese without that. My main issue in finding Reese totally uninteresting is that I can tune in to most shows or movies, no matter from what decade, and see a Reese-type. That, and the typical procedural format, was why I not just dropped the show after 2 episodes despite really liking Michael Emerson in Lost, but why it also completely disappeared from my radar: I never clicked on any articles on it, no matter how positive the title. That's why it took so long to find out about the changes that happened in season 3 and start watching and become a fan in a way I haven't been since... I can't even remember. PoI is the first time I listened to a Comic Con panel, for example, and live at that.

 

I suppose I'm a bit of an atypical viewer in that I already knew about Carter's death before I even saw the character. I really liked her, and I regret her death, but I knew it was coming. And, as it happens, it came as a package with what made the show watchable for me. She was great, and Fusco is pretty good too, but I wouldn't have watched the show for them.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Crim

[amensisterfriend]

I really, really wanted to like Carter, but I just didn't. I didn't dislike her, either---I just felt like she was too underwritten, undefined and personality-free a character for me to feel strongly about one way or the other. And I thought she had less than no romantic chemistry with Reese, so their kiss felt wildly out of nowhere to me. 

[Babalu]

Maybe the most unpopular opinion yet? I don't care about Bear. At all. I like dogs and have completely benign feelings about Bear, but if he were to have disappeared months ago, never to have been heard of again, that would have been fine with me. And I think his tweets are stupid.

[Gigi43]

I don't get "Shoot". I don't consider Root an actual person who really cares about people, she just has fixations. Also, so much of the "relationship", was Root who had previously threatened to torture Shaw making comments/advances she'd be annoyed by or shoot down (no pun intended!)... that's not romance to me and further more I think the show would have taken a lot of heat if Root had been a man who did that to Shaw and then pursued her like that in a way that the show would consider a good thing.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Gigi43

[mtlchick]

Quote

And I thought she had less than no romantic chemistry with Reese, so their kiss felt wildly out of nowhere to me. 

I think that's probably the one thing I never understood on this show (and that's without getting into the tech aspects.)  I mean, there was mutual admiration and respect, but when that happened I was like "I was supposed to be shipping this? News to me."  It  was nice for what it was, but the eventual reasoning behind was still (crickets.)

[Julia]

1 hour ago, mtlchick said:

I think that's probably the one thing I never understood on this show (and that's without getting into the tech aspects.)  I mean, there was mutual admiration and respect, but when that happened I was like "I was supposed to be shipping this? News to me."  It  was nice for what it was, but the eventual reasoning behind was still (crickets.)

The guys who make this are very much into superhero storytelling. Every time a character has moved forward it's been because someone has either been killed or removed from their lives so thoroughly that they might as well be dead. Even the much-broadcast Root/Shaw ship ended up being some heavy-handed flirting, a virtual relationship and a series of fridgings.

Real people are hard.

1 hour ago, Gigi43 said:

I don't get "Shoot". I don't consider Root an actual person who really cares about people, she just has fixations. Also, so much of the "relationship", was Root who had previously threatened to torture Shaw making comments/advances she'd be annoyed by or shoot down (no pun intended!)... that's not romance to me and further more I think the show would have taken a lot of heat if Root had been a man who did that to Shaw and then pursued her like that in a way that the show would consider a good thing.

I think the point of Shoot is that Shaw was broadly popular and Root, outside of her small-but-fervent fanbase, was not. Getting a character the audience doesn't warm to together with a popular character is a classic showrunner trick.

[Rumsy4]

On June 14, 2016 at 4:45 PM, mtlchick said:

I mean, there was mutual admiration and respect, but when that happened I was like "I was supposed to be shipping this? News to me."  It  was nice for what it was, but the eventual reasoning behind was still (crickets.)

Jim Caviezel improvised the kiss in some of the takes, and the creators decided to keep it in.

[tessaray]

On 6/16/2016 at 0:09 AM, Rumsy4 said:

Jim Caviezel improvised the kiss in some of the takes, and the creators decided to keep it in.

I didn't mind it too much because I thought Caviezel played Reese with the subtext of having a thing for Carter that was just over the line of friends and colleagues but being a good guy who respected her, unacted on.  

My UO, killing Carter was the right thing for the story.  Her dogged persistence in investigating HR was always going to end up that way.  

The same thing for Root, it was the right thing for the story. I happen to be one of the few who love Amy Acker but even if I didn't, Root was the antagonist that Harold needed, that we needed, so that we could see his relationship with the Machine change.  (Personally I never bought "Shoot" as some kind of epic romance, though I did buy Root being obsessed with Shaw and Shaw being amused and willing to play along. Because she's Shaw - and awesome.  :-) To me, the elevator kiss just screamed "the things I do for this mission".  IMO, YMMV... ) 

[wilnil]

My feeling over those seasons was that not that John fell in love with Carter but that he started to idealize and eventually sort of worship her, as far back as "Get Carter," when Finch dug up her service record. She was everything he was -- other than a consummate killer -- with the big difference being that she never lost her moral compass. And that's what led him to put her on a pedestal: that she didn't lose her way like he did. Short form: He didn't want to be with her, he wanted to be her.

[bros402]

15 hours ago, tessaray said:

I didn't mind it too much because I thought Caviezel played Reese with the subtext of having a thing for Carter that was just over the line of friends and colleagues but being a good guy who respected her, unacted on.  

My UO, killing Carter was the right thing for the story.  Her dogged persistence in investigating HR was always going to end up that way.  

The same thing for Root, it was the right thing for the story. I happen to be one of the few who love Amy Acker but even if I didn't, Root was the antagonist that Harold needed, that we needed, so that we could see his relationship with the Machine change.  (Personally I never bought "Shoot" as some kind of epic romance, though I did buy Root being obsessed with Shaw and Shaw being amused and willing to play along. Because she's Shaw - and awesome.  :-) To me, the elevator kiss just screamed "the things I do for this mission".  IMO, YMMV... ) 

Killing Carter was absolutely the right decision, imo - it was the only thing that made sense.

 

Also, I love Amy Acker & Root, she was killed off at just the right time - they could've saved her for the finale, or .exe, but her death would not have been as significant without an episode or two to let us absorb the death.