S05.E13: Forget

[Nashville]

Yep, it was a sexually intimate moment with Jessie/Jessica. Not like his kiss with Beth or with Carl. 

 

 

Well, I'm going to have to agree to vehemently disagree with your opinion on that one.  

 

IHMO the truth is in-between; the kiss didn't start out that way, but the eye contact afterwards definitely had some crackle going. 

Of course, part of that crackle was Jim Beam-fueled....

[lawless]

I definitely think the kiss wouldn't have happened if Rick hadn't been feeling the Jim Beam. I can only imagine what would have happened if Sasha or Daryl had had some. The fact that Deanna thought a party like that was a good idea says a lot to me about her ignorance of what life is like now outside their walls. And her pie in the sky plans for commerce and government. Raise some chickens and get some eggs for the homemade pasta first, lady, then we'll see about New England style townships. I had initially been more hopeful about her, but she seems woefully naive. But the group needs to spend less time worrying about her and more time getting on top of the place's many vulnerabilities.

Edited March 10, 2015 by lawless

[peach]

The last time Daryl got drunk, he and Beth burned down a house just for fun.  lol

[Nashville]

My favorite part of the entire party? 

 

Abraham and Rosita's arrival, hands down.

[AndySmith]

I instantly screamed 'Terminus' when I first spotted the red 'A' on Pete's hand. I thought it was a tattoo and he was a former Termite. (Even though no one else at Terminus had tattoos, I still managed to think that.)

 

I think, as others have posted, the literally scarlet colored A is supposed to anvilciously symbolize our 2 potentially slutty adulterers, Rick and Jessie.

 

which we also saw a short clip of one of the Termite's  mouths tearing flesh (eating Bob)

 

She also had memory flashes of Tyrese's funeral and Daryl carrying DeadBeth. She definitely wasn't in a good place.

 

Rick's been slogging her around like a sack of potatoes for the past two episodes

 

Yeah, but hasn't he been doing that anyway since her birth?

 

Sasha is breaking my heart. She just looks so broken.

 

Hopefully she won't do anything stupid, that will get her or someone else killed, but, season finale is upon us soon...

 

Honestly - it wasn't the kiss itself. It was the look in Rick's eyes BEFORE he leaned in for the kiss (from how I viewed it). The act itself is something that could be considered very chaste, and something that platonic family members do all of the time.

 

It was the look. I'm a long suffering lover of the show Sleepy Hollow, and we have two words for that look that happened to appear on Rick's face as he leaned in for the kiss ---> eye-fucking.

 

For me, the issue isn't how they kissed or where he kissed it...it was the post-kiss awkwardness that mattered.

Edited March 10, 2015 by AndySmith

[kj4ever]

I would be with you if Rick and Jessie's first scene wasn't a meet cute. The set up for romance is there. I just hope Rick doesn't destroy CDB's chance at happiness in ASZ by creating problems with Pete. As I said upthread, I'll take the town doctor over the new guy in town any day. 

 

Even if Rick started an affair with a married woman, even the town doctor's wife, I don't think it would destroy their chances at ASZ near as much as when it gets out that Carol went psycho on that child.  Can you imagine what would happen to someone if they did that to Carl or Judith(if she were older)?  Rick would gut them from navel to nose.

The main reason I call Jessie's husband as abusive is because it would be the easiest way to get her together with Rick. He gets to ride in, save her from her evil husband, get rid of the bad guy, and get the girl. Really, that`s the only reason I`m calling it.

 

I feel like yesterday, I was too harsh on Jessie. Yeah, she is just kind of blandly nice now, but we hardly know her character. There is nothing wrong with being nice and welcoming as defining character traits. I need to give her more time. I didn't think much of Michonne for ages, and now she`s one of my favorites. Granted, I don't think Jessie will EVER be Michonne, but I could grow to at least like her somewhat. I think the reason I immediately threw so much dislike at her was because:

 

1. Shes obviously being set up as Ricks new love interest. That puts a lot of pressure on a new character, especially when the writers have seemingly been teasing Rick/Michonne, a pairing that, to me, makes a lot of sense than Rick and Jessie. She has to make a really good first impression if she is going to be the main characters new love interest and she was...just alright.

 

2. She kind of gives off vibes of the female characters from season one and two, who just cowered behind the men with the kids whenever the walkers attacked. Which isn't fair, because how could Jessie become a badass like all of our groups lady's when shes been in Alexandria, but it opens up the possibility of her becoming the pretty blond lady Rick has to save. Not a super interesting characterization.

 

I`ll give her a chance, but I am not super confident in all this.  

The women of season 1 and 2 didn't annoy me because they hid behind men.  If this were to happen right now I think there would be a whole lot of people doing that, women and men.  The women of season 1 and 2 were annoying because they were assholes.  Jessie hasn't shown herself to be an asshole yet.

 

I think Douchebag Congresswoman is a typical politician. She sees what she wants and has decided how things are going to be and damn her constituents.

She may know some of what's out there but she doesn't care. Everything needs to go according to her plan. And she needs to be in charge.

You can count on me. I'll have a few extra machetes stashed, too.

I rewatched last night and one thing really stuck out like a sore thumb to me that I kind of recognized the first time but didn't think about again.  When she is talking to Maggie, Rick, and Michonne and Michonne says something about how a windbreaker will make people listen to them Deanna says something like "Yes, because it's what they're used to....Because I will tell them too".  Self important much?

 

I also noticed Jessie cringe when her husband went to put her hand on her back that I didn't see the first time.  It was subtle but it was there.  It wasn't a "don't touch me" cringe but a reflex cringe......It made me feel a little better about the gun touch by Rick.

 

The wall caress thingy....I'll start off by saying my boyfriend always rolls his eyes when I pick things like this apart and can't understand why I don't just enjoy the show...lol  Anyway I was spouting different theories about it and he was all, "He heard a walker by the fence, ran over, but then realized it couldn't get in because of the fence and was happy.  If they didn't have the god awful music playing you would have probably heard it and knew what he was doing."  Makes sense. 

[Watcher0363]

I have to remember to tell my great-aunts and friends that those cheek kisses are sexually intimate.  Have they all been trying to force themselves on me all this time?  

 

A kiss on the cheek, even if it included an embrace (which it didn't), even if it was soft and lingering (rather than stilted and awkward) can't be anything approaching sexually intimate in my book.  It can be suggestive..maybe it could be sensual.  Sexually intimate?  Sexually?  I just can't even get my brain there; even if the two of them were lovers I couldn't find a kiss on the cheek sexually intimate.  

 

Edited to add:  Fully clothed?  With a baby between them?  Still trying to get my head there...

I hope Jessie does not get her own thread. It will be Beth 2.0, because it is apparent she has the same communicable disease as Beth. It causes her to be extremely bland and untalented. to everyone except misguided broken males, who become infected by the blonde thing. Which makes the simplest of acts, such as handing them a pencil, an unbridled sexual pass. An a kiss on the cheek in a crowed room where everyone is watching you, after she has just handed your baby back. Is the equivalent of saying you're mine anytime anyplace. Thank god there was a baby in the picture, else bitch would need to be added to the equivalence.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I think the problem with the Jessie character is there just isn't enough time to get a proper feel for her, or at least they haven't shown it yet.  The only thing they've bothered to do with her so far is "oh hey, just show up and make eyes with Rick".  Its just way too 'crowded' in ASZ.  I mean, to make time for her and her family this week, they kept most the CDB group in offscreensville, or just made a very brief cameo appearance at the party.

 

Even with AB giving some info about herTWDself and family, on TD, I still know pretty much next to nothing about Jessie, or what the actual relationship with Pete is really like, or the whole family dynamic they got going on. 

 

I do know Sam will never want cookies or to sleep again, but that's only thanks to some intense motivational speaking from Crazy Scarol.

Edited March 10, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[kikaha]

 

And if the show really has brought a woman in solely to get Rick hard, with no purpose or personality of her own, then I think that's very regressive and cheapens everything they've built up over the last few seasons in how female characters are treated.

 

Jessie reflects the personality of the entire town.  Safe.  Sheltered.  Sitting ducks for the predators who have survived the ZA. Including Rick?  

 

Someone made the interesting suggestion that Deanna has chosen Rick to take part in a breeding experiment with Jessie.  If so, and Jessie's husband knows it, that might explain some of his behavior.  i.e. he could know intellectually the need for Rick to hook up with his wife (to populate the world).  Yet that could enrage him to no end.  This could be why he insisted on leaving Jessie and Rick alone at the party, e.g., and why he came across so gruffly. 

 

I personally thought the chemistry between Rick and Jessie was so strong, it shocked me to learn she is married. 

 

My prediction: Rick will not turn full-on Governor or Shane.  When things start to go nuclear in Alexandria -- due to outside menaces IMO -- he will rise to the occasion and return to hero status. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Jessie reflects the personality of the entire town.  Safe.  Sheltered.  Sitting ducks for the predators who have survived the ZA. Including Rick?  

 

Someone made the interesting suggestion that Deanna has chosen Rick to take part in a breeding experiment with Jessie.  If so, and Jessie's husband knows it, that might explain some of his behavior.  i.e. he could know intellectually the need for Rick to hook up with his wife (to populate the world).  Yet that could enrage him to no end.  This could be why he insisted on leaving Jessie and Rick alone at the party, e.g., and why he came across so gruffly. 

 

I personally thought the chemistry between Rick and Jessie was so strong, it shocked me to learn she is married. 

 

My prediction: Rick will not turn full-on Governor or Shane.  When things start to go nuclear in Alexandria -- due to outside menaces IMO -- he will rise to the occasion and return to hero status. 

 

That does seem to be something this Deanna woman would do - the breeding thing, and using a married woman to do it.  Kinda makes me wonder if that's why she doesn't like the idea of Sasha being so against ASZ and desperately wanting to hard labor (ie, patrols and constant guard tower duty shifts).  Maybe D sees Sasha as a prime child bearing source... and further speculation, maybe that little thing with it just happening to be Spencer who opened the door for her was a move manipulated by Deanna, as well.

 

I do, too, see a visible and tangible spark between Rick & Jessie.  But her being married and Rick having dealt with Shane in the past, just makes it a bit icky to watch.  If they are setting it up for the future, when Pete the Porch Dick dies, then ok.  But while he's still alive, it just makes Rick come off as the new Shane.  Shane 1.0 was a slipping-into-insanity dick.

[kj4ever]

That does seem to be something this Deanna woman would do - the breeding thing, and using a married woman to do it.  Kinda makes me wonder if that's why she doesn't like the idea of Sasha being so against ASZ and desperately wanting to hard labor (ie, patrols and constant guard tower duty shifts).  Maybe D sees Sasha as a prime child bearing source... and further speculation, maybe that little thing with it just happening to be Spencer who opened the door for her was a move manipulated by Deanna, as well.

 

I do, too, see a visible and tangible spark between Rick & Jessie.  But her being married and Rick having dealt with Shane in the past, just makes it a bit icky to watch.  If they are setting it up for the future, when Pete the Porch Dick dies, then ok.  But while he's still alive, it just makes Rick come off as the new Shane.  Shane 1.0 was a slipping-into-insanity dick.

I don't get the Rick is Shane stuff.  As far as I know he hasn't railed Jessie in the woods.  He does seem to have a bit of feelings for her, but a kiss on the cheek is a far cry from what was going on with Shane and Lori.  I mean has no one here ever developed a crush on someone that was taken???  I will full well admit I'm wrong if next week Rick guts the husband and throws Jessie over his shoulder and takes her back to her cave, but so far I don't see why this is such a big deal.

[AndySmith]

Didn't we meet Shane and Lori post ZA while they were in full sexing-each-other mode? I'm sure their affair started out innocently enough as well.

[Sofie Fatale]

Random...

Ok so I'm going to assume that the minute I see Carol wearing her perfectly fitted za survival gear again that the destruction of ASZ is imminent. There's no way she's back out there in that awful floral sweater or scary twin set. So that'll be my cue lol

I wouldn't have recognized Rosita if not for Sgt Moobs, and I think she could be Enids older sister. They resemble a lot IMO.

Is Deanna Pimping out Spencer to Sasha? Yes please.

[kikismom]

I also don't understand why Jessie or anyone else "has to make a good first impression" if she is going to be Rick's love interest (or anything for that matter).

Why?

Are we his parents and he is bringing his prom date over to meet us?

How many other characters did we get a whole backstory on before they just became part of the mix?

I think the implication is that some viewers feel the show should make them like and accept Jessie before her character may be part of a story arc.

But some hate Deanna and some think she will be good and some don't have an opinion on her at all.

Same for gun-cart girl. Same for Spencer. Etc.

Other characters can just be---as could happen---in the scene, with very little known, and that's perfectly fine.

But Rick gave Jessie a kiss on the cheek and now she's bad because she didn't apply for the job with some viewers who must give their approval first.

 

It is absolutely your right to love/hate/accept/loathe any character on this show.

But just own it as your feelings toward that character.

Don't make a special rule for the admission of a single character because you wanted something else to happen; i.e. don't blame it on the writers not making any character fulfill a viewer's ideal CV.

 

My first impression of Lori wasn't great, or Andrea, or even Herschel (Herschel was nuts as far as I was concerned. Nuts and mean.)

 

That's how characters are built for a story. That's why Original Daryl started by wanting to kill Rick--and vice versa, and Merle redeems himself, and Carol was a prissy mouse, and Carl was the little smart-mouth fuck from hell.

 

Throw tomatoes at will, but if anyone only wants a sexual fantasy about Rick, Daryl, Father PP, or whoever---there is lots of fanfic or write your own.

If you want to watch TWD, let the story play out and see where it goes.

Nobody on the show has to do anything.

[Haleth]

I blame the writers.  We've only seen Jessie interact (in a very flirtatious way) with Rick.  Had we seen her giving Glenn a haircut or trading cookie recipes with Carol we wouldn't be so suspicious of her.  As it is she's be written to focus only on handsome, charismatic Rick, which calls into question her character.

[kj4ever]

I also don't understand why Jessie or anyone else "has to make a good first impression" if she is going to be Rick's love interest (or anything for that matter).

Why?

Are we his parents and he is bringing his prom date over to meet us?

How many other characters did we get a whole backstory on before they just became part of the mix?

I think the implication is that some viewers feel the show should make them like and accept Jessie before her character may be part of a story arc.

But some hate Deanna and some think she will be good and some don't have an opinion on her at all.

Same for gun-cart girl. Same for Spencer. Etc.

Other characters can just be---as could happen---in the scene, with very little known, and that's perfectly fine.

But Rick gave Jessie a kiss on the cheek and now she's bad because she didn't apply for the job with some viewers who must give their approval first.

 

It is absolutely your right to love/hate/accept/loathe any character on this show.

But just own it as your feelings toward that character.

Don't make a special rule for the admission of a single character because you wanted something else to happen; i.e. don't blame it on the writers not making any character fulfill a viewer's ideal CV.

 

My first impression of Lori wasn't great, or Andrea, or even Herschel (Herschel was nuts as far as I was concerned. Nuts and mean.)

 

That's how characters are built for a story. That's why Original Daryl started by wanting to kill Rick--and vice versa, and Merle redeems himself, and Carol was a prissy mouse, and Carl was the little smart-mouth fuck from hell.

 

Throw tomatoes at will, but if anyone only wants a sexual fantasy about Rick, Daryl, Father PP, or whoever---there is lots of fanfic or write your own.

If you want to watch TWD, let the story play out and see where it goes.

Nobody on the show has to do anything.

Aaaaaaaaaand if you don't like it you don't have to watch it!

 

I know I've stopped watching shows when the whole bed hopping starts, especially when they all start doing each other....lol  So if people are so upset just don't watch.

I blame the writers.  We've only seen Jessie interact (in a very flirtatious way) with Rick.  Had we seen her giving Glenn a haircut or trading cookie recipes with Carol we wouldn't be so suspicious of her.  As it is she's be written to focus only on handsome, charismatic Rick, which calls into question her character.

I think they have just shown her being nice to the new guy who is having a hard time.  YMMV

[morgankobi]

An a kiss on the cheek in a crowed room where everyone is watching you...

 

 

I'm not really diving into this debate, except to say I'm pretty sure they were crowded-room-adjacent. Rick was alone looking out a window when Jessie came in. You could see the party through the doorway, but they were alone in that room.

Edited March 10, 2015 by morgankobi

[SHOgirl]

Gonna have to disagree with you on this. The humans are the ones who gave us Woodbury, the rape camps and cannibalism at Terminus, the ones who attacked and burned down the prison. The humans are the ones pillaging and attacking and destroying. Animals are loyal. Humans are not. I'll take the animals any day.

I work in horse rescue and the most vicious thing I've ever seen in person was a horse savaging a rescuer. Neither survived. And one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen was complete strangers working together to save victims of a violent car crash. There are savage animals and there are good and moral people. I'm grateful to my life experience for showing me that nothing is all or nothing and very sorry for those who haven't learned that.

[catrox14]

Some thoughts on "the kiss". I've seen it mentioned that Rick hasn't experienced much nurturing since Lori but I'm not so sure I agree with that.  Michonne was nurturing towards him and Carl once she began to trust them and him here. The house they holed up in became their little home until it was ruined by the Claimers. Michonne talked to him about plans and such (except this time which was some contrived bullshit IMO to highlight that Jessie is now this special person. I personally don't think Jessie and Rick have much on screen chemistry but that's just MO.

 

I guess it comes down to what one considers nurturing and caring. To me whatever Jessie is doing or not doing, is the common everyday normal kindness to others born of living a previously normal life before the ZA.  Anyone could have cut his hair if he allowed it or if the group took the time but they were on 24/7 survival mode so haircuts not a priority. IMO Jessie delivered platitudes about IMO pie in the sky not living in the reality of now sweet talk.  I guess I don't understand why Rick is being painted as needing that brand of "typical" nurturing to find a woman sexy. It seems like a disservice to Rick's characterization.  But that's just MO

[AngelaHunter]

I do know Sam will never want cookies or to sleep again, but that's only thanks to some intense motivational speaking from Crazy Scarol.

 

I'd never sleep again, after that little pep talk! That was one of the most WTF scenes on this show, for me. Awesome.

 

As for Rick putting the moves on a married woman: After the things he's done, I hardly think he feels strongly motivated to bow to social convention. He's a cave man! I was half expecting him to club her over the head and drag her off.  IMO, she's been putting out signals that even Crazy Rick can't miss.

[Boilergal]

At first I thought Pollyannaville was great - but each week it gets creepier and creepier -  as new people were introduced at the party you wonder how in the heck they survived long enough to get Alexandria secured.

 

I fear Aaron is a master manipulator and he is working his magic on Darryl.  He is preying on Darryl's need to feel appreciated, respected and included.  All the praise while out with the horse, the spaghetti dinner, the motorcycle and then asking him to be a recruiter. 

 

I think Carol went so OTT with the kid- so if he did go and tell someone what she said, no one would believe him. Carol has them all fooled into thinking she is  sweetheart - if confronted she could be all shocked and golly gee I would never say anything like that, after all my daughter was killed by walkers and break down in tears

 

Rick kissed Jessie on the cheek - and yes it was inappropriate - he didn't do a full frenchy on her...

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

Carol has them all fooled into thinking she is  sweetheart

 

From Reddit::p

 

[sidekickgirl]

I'm pretty good at sifting through all the shipper posts for most shows I watch, but it seems to me that this is the only thing anyone took away from the episode.  And NGL, it's grating. 

 

I'm still stuck on Carol and that lovely bedtime story she told poor Sam.  Hope that comes back to bite her down the road.  I ship kids not being scarred by "Junior League" cookie makers.  She should have gotten a lookout to spot her as she went in to lift the guns. 

[HalcyonDays]

Just a gentle reminder that it's okay to disagree with others in how you view characters or situations on screen. We all see things through our own unique life lenses. Some will see Carol as a psychopath, some cheer her on. Some see Jessie as having ulterior motives, some thing she's a victim. Aaron could be shady, or trustworthy. Rick is either crazy or diabolical. The fun is figuring out the little tells and quirky little behaviours that hint one way of another. But in the meantime, please respect everyone's posts and opinions and do not simply say 'if you don't like, don't watch.' Let's all enjoy the twisted drama of The Walking Dead, however messed up it may be. Thank you.

[catrox14]

I'm pretty good at sifting through all the shipper posts for most shows I watch, but it seems to me that this is the only thing anyone took away from the episode.  And NGL, it's grating. 

 

I'm still stuck on Carol and that lovely bedtime story she told poor Sam.  Hope that comes back to bite her down the road.  I ship kids not being scarred by "Junior League" cookie makers.  She should have gotten a lookout to spot her as she went in to lift the guns. 

 

It's a bit hard to avoid that part of the discussion since the show itself make Jessie and Rick a focal point of the episode.  So I can't really blame the shippers. Can one really "ship" a kid not being scarred by Carol, the cookie monster?   

[kj4ever]

I'm pretty good at sifting through all the shipper posts for most shows I watch, but it seems to me that this is the only thing anyone took away from the episode.  And NGL, it's grating. 

 

I'm still stuck on Carol and that lovely bedtime story she told poor Sam.  Hope that comes back to bite her down the road.  I ship kids not being scarred by "Junior League" cookie makers.  She should have gotten a lookout to spot her as she went in to lift the guns. 

You and me both, and it will be interesting how it is handled.  I mean Rick and Michonne are the "law" now.  If they don't do something about it then they put out the signal that it's ok to scar kids for life and steal weapons.  Then add to the mix that Rick was in on the whole thing (except for the kid thing - I think that will freak Rick the hell out.  No matter how crazy he is I don't think he'd threaten a 10 year old into submission)

 

I mean would Carol nark him out or keep quiet?  I'm pretty sure the community will exile her for that.  Will the group come to bat for her?  Will they be like this chick has murdered people that had the flu and now this? GOODBYE?

 

All I know is I can't wait to find out!

 

On rewatch I think I figured out when Daryl started trusting Aaron.  When Daryl told him to go ahead and pointed to the horse to put it down you could see how upset Aaron was, and Daryl noticed that big time.  He almost seems shocked by it.

Edited March 10, 2015 by kj4ever

[catrox14]

Question:  Did the kid stamp every CDB members hand that attended the party?

[morgankobi]

I'm still surprised they very first shot wasn't an attempt to put the horse down. I know he was overrun with walkers, but Aaron and Daryl are both great shots.

Question:  Did the kid stamp every CDB members hand that attended the party?

It wasn't shown as such. And, sure, some may say just because we didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. But the production team chose not to show anyone outside his family and Rick with the stamp, so I would say that's intentional.

 

I might humor an immature-acting 10 year old for a bit, but no way I'd let that kids stamp my hand for two years!

 

I don't believe, as some have guessed, that it is an actual mark used by the ASZhats. I doubt something like that would be put in the hands of a 10 year old. They are a closed community of about 30, pre-CDB. No need to mark people, there aren't any visitors here with day-passes.

Edited March 10, 2015 by morgankobi

[HalcyonDays]

I mean would Carol nark him out or keep quiet?  I'm pretty sure the community will exile her for that.  Will the group come to bat for her?  Will they be like this chick has murdered people that had the flu and now this? GOODBYE?

 

Rick's group is a very loyal group. And remember that Carol single-handedly saved them all from the crazies at Terminus. Without her, they would all be hotdogs and steaks. On top of that, Carol (and Tyresse) saved Judith. Everyone - Rick especially - is really in debt to Carol.

 

So if it came to pass that Carol would be exiled, there is no way Rick's group would allow that. I don't think so. Especially since Rick already did it before and obviously realizes it was a mistake (or was it, since she was safe from the Governor attack?).

 

I just think that Rick did it once - exile - therefore will not again. They owe Carol big time and this group is very bonded and loyal. You heard Rick - 'if things don't work out, we take over.' Carol will be fine.

[catrox14]

I'm still surprised they very first shot wasn't an attempt to put the horse down. I know he was overrun with walkers, but Aaron and Daryl are both great shots.

It wasn't shown as such. And, sure, some may say just because we didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. But the production team chose not to show anyone outside his family and Rick with the stamp, so I would say that's intentional.

 

I might humor an immature-acting 10 year old for a bit, but no way I'd let that kids stamp my hand for two years!

 

I don't believe, as some have guessed, that it is an actual mark used by the ASZhats. I doubt something like that would be put in the hands of a 10 year old. They are a closed community of about 30, pre-CDB. No need to mark people, there aren't any visitors here with day-passes.

 

 

Thanks. I thought it was only Rick and family. I think Sasha might have refused the stamp right? 

 

I'm sticking by my crack theory that the stamp is filled with some kind of something that affects the bearer. Of course the kid probably has no idea what's in it and is just happy to put a stamp on someone's hand because kid reasons. 

[morgankobi]

I don't think Sasha had any scenes with Sam. 

She refused to talk anymore with son #2 because he was blathering on about a pasta maker, but I don't think there was a stamp involved.

Edited March 10, 2015 by morgankobi

[catrox14]

I don't think Sasha had any scenes with Sam.

 

I thought she was asked something about the stamp. Sasha's scenes were trippy so I'm probably confused.

[BrokenRemote]

Some thoughts on "the kiss". I've seen it mentioned that Rick hasn't experienced much nurturing since Lori but I'm not so sure I agree with that. Michonne was nurturing towards him and Carl once she began to trust them and him here. The house they holed up in became their little home until it was ruined by the Claimers. Michonne talked to him about plans and such (except this time which was some contrived bullshit IMO to highlight that Jessie is now this special person. I personally don't think Jessie and Rick have much on screen chemistry but that's just MO.

I guess it comes down to what one considers nurturing and caring. To me whatever Jessie is doing or not doing, is the common everyday normal kindness to others born of living a previously normal life before the ZA. Anyone could have cut his hair if he allowed it or if the group took the time but they were on 24/7 survival mode so haircuts not a priority. IMO Jessie delivered platitudes about IMO pie in the sky not living in the reality of now sweet talk. I guess I don't understand why Rick is being painted as needing that brand of "typical" nurturing to find a woman sexy. It seems like a disservice to Rick's characterization. But that's just MO

It definitely comes down to personal opinion because I can't think of one thing Michonne did during their very brief time in that house, or really ever, that was especially nurturing or caring. toward Rick. They had a couple friendly conversations, but I didn't see them as anything but friendly. That one time she put her hand on his a couple weeks ago was a caring gesture, the kind I'd make toward any of my friends if they needed a pep talk. She's been more nurturing by far to Carl--which to me shows she has a caring side. She's just not that invested in using it on Rick.

Aside from the haircut I don't see what Jessie has done that's all that nurturing or caring either though.

As for the kiss, I would like to point out that there are many degrees between chaste and sexually intimate.

Edited March 10, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[GodsBeloved]

I don't think the group or Rick owe Carol anymore than she owes them. She came after Tyreese saved/scooped up Judith and aided in keeping that little group safe.

Carol didn't singlehandedly save them from Terminus. Yes she caused a distraction by blowing stuff up. What she didn't do was storm in, take down all the Termites and impeding walkers and loose the group from their bonds.

Yes Carol helped get things started but the group played a huge part as well in getting out of Terminus..

It's interesting that the group wouldn't let Carol be kicked out for threatening the kid yet if an adult threatened Carl would they think its ok to kick that adult out?

[morgankobi]

It's interesting that the group wouldn't let Carol be kicked out for threatening the kid yet if an adult threatened Carl would they think its ok to kick that adult out?

Yes, definitely.

 

I wonder if the ASZhats banished Carol (a real banishment, not a "banishment" that is really murder), would a majority of CDB decide to leave with her. I can't see them trying to take over unless these guys try to harm the group.

Edited March 10, 2015 by morgankobi

[catrox14]

It definitely comes down to personal opinion because I can't think of one thing Michonne did during their very brief time in that house, or really ever, that was especially nurturing or caring. toward Rick. They had a couple friendly conversations, but I didn't see them as anything but friendly. That one time she put her hand on his a couple weeks ago was a caring gesture, the kind I'd make toward any of my friends if they needed a pep talk. She's been more nurturing by far to Carl--which to me shows she has a caring side. She's just not that invested in using it on Rick.Aside from the haircut I don't see what Jessie has done that's all that nurturing or caring either though.

 

I thought Rick and Michonne had a mutually respectful and nurturing in it's own way without the typical touchy feely kind of nurturing and caring. I don't think they were cold fish to each other after their initial meeting and then once she essentially forgave him for thinking about giving her up to the Governor.  I guess I can see it both ways. 

 

It's interesting that the group wouldn't let Carol be kicked out for threatening the kid yet if an adult threatened Carl would they think its ok to kick that adult out?

 

I'm confused. Do we know for sure that is the case? Did that happen?

[NurseGiGi]

I thought Sasha's reaction to the humdrum, superficiality of the cocktail party was spot on.  Not only for HER but I would have expected some of the others to have a similar, but probably more muted reaction, than poor Sasha.  Come to think of it, I guess they all really did have varying degrees of it.  But Sasha's reaction was my favorite and most in character.  I'm really, really liking her right now, well now that she's developing different layers and is becoming more complex.

 

The problem I'm having (right now, I'm sure I'll have more) with Alexandria is that the Rickettes are not running it.  They have tons of hindsight to fall back on and are very capable of making the place more secure.  They can teach those that are able how to help defend and others still could learn to grow crops and tend livestock.  Just these tasks alone would be enough to keep everyone occupied and too tired for pasta maker cocktail parties.  Hell, they could learn to make home brew and moonshine with the proper ingredients!  Yes, I have made some muscadine and grape wine and tasted some decent moonshine.  And I sneaked into a friends house where we found some homebrew and got my first drunk on.

 

Anyway, I just don't think Alexandria is all that it could be.  I don't think the community is full of nefarious daring doers but they're so damn naive and Deanna is just too much a politician.  Her first language is politic speak.  She might as well be stringing together well know political cliches and propaganda because that's all I hear when she opens her mouth.  My suggestion?  Have the Rickettes take them (Deanna and pasta maker included) on a long stroll so they can meet up with a herd of walkers or even a claimed group and see what they have to say about security after that.

 

The only problem I have with Rick and Jessie is 1) she's married and I really don't want to see another love triangle and 2) I don't really want to see another love story at all.  Period.  Because the writers will not handle it well, judging from their history.

 

I'm definitely in for a PTVwiki.  There are a few acronyms I'm not sure about either.  I don't remember what Unfair Wolves is, probably because I had taken my Ambien before I read it the first time.  Hmmmm........come to think of it, I took an Ambien before typing this.  Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead.

[BrokenRemote]

You and me both, and it will be interesting how it is handled. I mean Rick and Michonne are the "law" now. If they don't do something about it then they put out the signal that it's ok to scar kids for life and steal weapons. Then add to the mix that Rick was in on the whole thing (except for the kid thing - I think that will freak Rick the hell out. No matter how crazy he is I don't think he'd threaten a 10 year old into submission)

I mean would Carol nark him out or keep quiet? I'm pretty sure the community will exile her for that. Will the group come to bat for her? Will they be like this chick has murdered people that had the flu and now this? GOODBYE?

All I know is I can't wait to find out!

On rewatch I think I figured out when Daryl started trusting Aaron. When Daryl told him to go ahead and pointed to the horse to put it down you could see how upset Aaron was, and Daryl noticed that big time. He almost seems shocked by it.

I don't think they'll ever find out. Like a couple have said, if that kid tells (which I don't think he will--Carol knows kids and she read that kid and the best way to silence him) they'll figure it's the kid mixing up nightmares about zombies with reality. Sweet Carol who volunteered to cook for old people and made us cookies?

[Timetoread]

I agree with most that's already been said.

 

But, here's my profound statement/question: Why did Rick (at the end of the show) choose the 6-shooter (and it may only be a five-shooter)? He's already got the Python, which, admittedly, is a cool weapon. But why not go with something that has a clip with 12-15 rounds and is so much easier, and quicker, to reload??????

 

In a pinch, many prefer a revolver to a semi-automatic which can be tempermental and jam.

 

 

I realize there are different interpretations of how Jessie received Rick's kiss (some say she was uncomfortable, myself and others think she was startled because she liked it), so I'm not too keen to bother discussing that ad nauseum. But I think saying Rick almost killed Pete is going a bit far. He didn't even draw his gun. Yes, he touched it, but that could mean a million things. Maybe he didn't like the way Jessie shied away from her husband's touch. Maybe he was reminding himself why they took the extra guns in the first place. And yes, maybe he even considered it for a minute - but I don't think I could say he ALMOST did it. 

 

I'm letting Jessie of the hook for a minute.  So far I don't see anything special about her but that's okay, we don't know her yet.  She's said more than once that she "can handle herself" and noting how Aaron can also handle himself, we don't have to assume that she is useless.  Taking romance aviliciousness out of the equation, I'd say she's on track to be spying on Rick.  It could explain why she seems to always conveniently be in his face when he is not with his crew.  And I found the impromptu haircut to be very intimate in execution - especially considering that she didn't have them pin Daryl to the ground while she attacked him with shears.  In fact, maybe that's what Aaron meant about Rick not knowing the good guys from the bad.  All of that to say, what is striking me most is not HER actions but Rick's.  The more I think about the kiss the more I'm disturbed by it.  That's not HIM.  Even if he was aroused by her, it's not like Rick to put his proverbial paws on a woman, cuz he wants to.  People keep likening him to Shane but Shane didn't do that either, he only wanted Lori and Andrea went after HIM.  Something about this whole group is off to me.  Every last one of them.  Even Daryl - Daryl wasn't THIS anti-social before.  He saved people and scouted and took command (was on the Council) and flirted with Carol and Michonne and Beth.  He's rough around the edges but not a sasquatch.  I've got to feel that this is leading up to something - something that is festering in our group.

 

With all the talk of how they are "family" when is somebody going to deal with Sasha?  I don't think she's behaving badly but she is clearly only hanging on by a thread.  Maggie had 2 minutes with her but more is needed.  I would prefer Carol to work with Sasha over surviving profound grief than terrorizing children.   Michonne too, since they already set them up.

 

Also, why is that Michonne and Carl don't seem to know each other anymore?

Edited March 10, 2015 by Timetoread

[morgankobi]

I'm definitely in for a PTVwiki.  There are a few acronyms I'm not sure about either.

 

 

There was a thread created yesterday, and there's already some good ones in there. Pinned at the top of the front page, "WTH is a CDB."

 

It's interesting that the group wouldn't let Carol be kicked out for threatening the kid yet if an adult threatened Carl would they think its ok to kick that adult out?

 

I'm confused. Do we know for sure that is the case? Did that happen?

 

 No Sam hasn't squealed, but I think one thing we can mostly agree on is CDB wouldn't just say, "Bye, Carol" and close the gates.

Edited March 10, 2015 by morgankobi

[Nashville]

The women of season 1 and 2 didn't annoy me because they hid behind men.  If this were to happen right now I think there would be a whole lot of people doing that, women and men.  The women of season 1 and 2 were annoying because they were assholes.  Jessie hasn't shown herself to be an asshole yet.

 

Thankyouthankyouthankyou.

The wall caress thingy....I'll start off by saying my boyfriend always rolls his eyes when I pick things like this apart and can't understand why I don't just enjoy the show...lol  Anyway I was spouting different theories about it and he was all, "He heard a walker by the fence, ran over, but then realized it couldn't get in because of the fence and was happy.  If they didn't have the god awful music playing you would have probably heard it and knew what he was doing."  Makes sense.

This, in quadruple spades. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only person on the planet who saw it that way. What I saw:

• Rick hears a rattle of metal.
• Fearing the worst - a walker has gotten through - he charges over to (hopefully) close the breach and stem the bloodbath which would inevitably follow if a herd got in amongst the ASZhats.
• Rick gets there to find... nothing. A walker came up against the Wall - but the Wall held with no problem, and the walker is simply jostling against it with no effect.
• Rick feels something close to a sense of wonder at the stark realization: unlike so many in the past, this is a Wall which WORKS.

  

Question:  Did the kid stamp every CDB members hand that attended the party?

He was stamping - or trying to stamp - everyone, CDB and ASZhats alike. Don't know if he succeeded. No, I don't think the kid was instructed to selectively stamp folks to mark them for the ASZ's Harlan Ellison Memorial Eugenics Breeding Program; I think he was a kid with a stamp and stamp pad. If the ASZhats had a cat, I'm sure it would've been catstamped before the evening was over.

[GodsBeloved]

I'm confused. Do we know for sure that is the case? Did that happen?

No. I was responding to the idea that if it did happen, if the kid told his mom about Carol threatening him and if Deanna kicked her out or at least tried to and the group wouldn't let it happen. Edited March 10, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[catrox14]

No Sam hasn't squealed, but I think one thing we can mostly agree on is CDB wouldn't just say, "Bye, Carol" and close the gates.

 

Okay. Thanks. I don't think CDB would exile anyone at this point for anything they do to the ASZhats because it's 'us or them' still IMO

[GodsBeloved]

There was a thread created yesterday, and there's already some good ones in there. Pinned at the top of the front page, "WTH is a CDB."

No Sam hasn't squealed, but I think one thing we can mostly agree on is CDB wouldn't just say, "Bye, Carol" and close the gates.

I don't think they would just say bye either. Considering they are the "guests" they can walk through those gates with her. Edited March 10, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[BrokenRemote]

I thought Rick and Michonne had a mutually respectful and nurturing in it's own way without the typical touchy feely kind of nurturing and caring. I don't think they were cold fish to each other after their initial meeting and then once she essentially forgave him for thinking about giving her up to the Governor. I guess I can see it both ways.

I'm confused. Do we know for sure that is the case? Did that happen?

We agree on that. I don't think Rick and Michonne were cold fish toward each other (although Michonne was kind of a brick wall to everyone at first) and there's definite respect there, and friendship. I personally don't think I could have ever forgiven him for agreeing to sell me to the governor for the group's freedom if I were her, whether or not he changed his mind. I'd always be wondering if he truly had my back if the chips were down because of that as well. Even if I could forgive, I'd never be able to forget it.

Where I think we differ is that I don't see Rick and Michonne's friendship as a special relationship. He's shown he trusts her, respects her abilities and opinions, but I don't think we've seen that he does so any more than he does Glenn or Daryl or that she and Rick are closer than he is with those two.

As far as relationships, I think she deserves better than Rick. And I don't think if either of them has a romantic relationship that it means they stop being friends.

[morgankobi]

I do love that the wall stroking scene can be interpreted differently (I also love there is now such thing as a "wall-stroking scene"). My first read was that it was Rick seeing how the danger is still right there. There was a fence at the prison and a wall at Woodberry, too, so Rick knows a fence/wall is not enough (against walkers or people). Also, AGAIN BS on Deanna's we haven't seen anyone, alive or dead, for a long time!

 

I think it was intended to juxtapose the light scene of Jessie and Pete strolling along, Jessie showing off the stamp her goofy, carefree son gave her, la, la, la. (yes, I know there was the close-up of Rick's gun right after, but I'm speaking to the tone of the community being presented here.) I think the walker outside shows the danger, not enforces the security.

 

Plus, a walker who hears noises will keep pushing on the wall until killed, or distracted. That walker will attract more walkers. We have had absolutely no indication that people stay quiet in ASZ, so I'm still unsure why we should think they don't need to exterminate around their walls like Woodberry had to.

Edited March 10, 2015 by morgankobi

[maczero]

I'm willing to wait to see what happens.  His behavior I actually find the most believable, given the arc the show's been following with him.  I just don't think the show would have him go over the edge - assault Jessie or her husband for no reason - he could never be the face of the show again.  He's in this "grab all the goodies" kind of mode because he and his family (which I include everyone in the group, not just his kids) have been without for so long. 

That's probably true but I think it's a little more than that.  I think Rick has developed an attitude that if you're too inept to handle your business then you deserve to have your shit taken.  I already see that in our society now.  You leave your purse in plain sight in your car and a lot of people have very little sympathy if it gets stolen.  

 

They need better security and  I am shocked that they don't seem to have any sort of full-time watch-tower schedule, given how organized everything else is. Maybe organized isn't the best word, perhaps controlled is a better word. 

I think organized is the right word.  I've spent a few months researching prepping.  A lot of the prepping community has an almost ocd level of commitment to organization.  

 

But, I know this is a TV show so I'll say that horse could really act. Very well trained.

I thought so too.  I was impressed that it was able to realistically put up a little bit of a fight without seriously hurting one of the actors.

 

Okay, I seriously am completely done with this show! There was already a horrific horse killing scene in the first season. What was the fucking point of adding a horse for one episode is this was just going to happen?? I hoped the show wouldn't go there but I should know better. It's extremely upsetting to me! I haven't cried about anyone dying throughout this whole series but I am about this.

Thats one.

[econ07]

Why does this community have no procedures for sleeping, so that if someone dies in their sleep, they don't turn everyone else into a zombie?  I mean CDB can't afford that luxury, but certainly this walled off community could, no?

[morgankobi]

Two horses in two years of the ZA and almost 5 seasons is a pretty low average. If anything, horses are being under represented. Where's the horse union when you need them, this series is species-ist!

[Iamsweetdee]

Why does this community have no procedures for sleeping, so that if someone dies in their sleep, they don't turn everyone else into a zombie?  I mean CDB can't afford that luxury, but certainly this walled off community could, no?

Do we have any evidence that they know that everyone is already infected? The biggest fault I have with this show (and TV in general) is that normal conversations do not take place. Someone should be spouting everything they know about the walkers and everything else out there. But, I guess no drama.