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Glory

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Jesus Christ. Can you all step away from the Darren hate to see the point that was trying to be made. Seriously. It's silly.

 

What is silly is to conveniently overlook I said his songs were probably going to be OK, as was Matt's direction and Chris's penned episode. I also said that all three were indulgences by the GLEE PTB and I was fine with it.   But geeze, I guess it's "hatred" towards all three.  Seriously, it's silly.  Let' step away from fandom gushing .

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Everyone needs to step away from telling each other how to post. You've all been posting on forums for a while now, most of you on forums with more restrictive rules than this one. You know how to state your opinion without attacking each other. I don't bother stepping in a lot of the time because you're all adults and you can handle yourselves in a debate, but it's been especially snarky for the past couple of days and you need to tone it down.

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(edited)

What is silly is to conveniently overlook I said his songs were probably going to be OK, as was Matt's direction and Chris's penned episode. I also said that all three were indulgences by the GLEE PTB and I was fine with it.   But geeze, I guess it's "hatred" towards all three.  Seriously, it's silly.  Let' step away from fandom gushing .

 

Honestly, your post was a good representation of what had been happening. My post wasn't aimed specifically at you. It's annoying, when I'm trying to make a point about something. (In this case, that yes..Darren actually does have experience writing for a musical..and that's probably good enough for a Glee version of a Broadway hit.) And things get nitpicked. Like I don't know that Starkids isn't broadway. Or like even the biggest Darren Criss fan doesn't know that he's not quite up to the task of writing an actual broadway hit at the moment. 

 

I didn't intend for it to be attacking. Just frustration at what has been occurring.  

Edited by mercfan3
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I didn't intend for it to be attacking. Just frustration at what has been occurring.

 

Fair enough, but the frustration can work both ways.

 

Now we both better shut up before Cranberry taps our knuckles... ;)

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Another one who dropped out of college because he was lazy.

This show really has no respect for hard work. I mean I imagine Broadway performers work their asses off. There are no easy rides.

 

I think Jesse worked plenty hard. Weren't VA on saline drips while preparing for Nationals? And he was adding to his resume, voluntarily, with an acting exercise. Where Jesse failed was in realising that he couldn't continue focusing on his performance to the exclusion of everything else. 

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I thought it was actually in character that Jesse St. James was SHOCKED that his schoolwork wasn't done for him in UCLA like it apparently was in Carmel High.

Jesse was self centered and entitled but yea, he worked hard from what we saw in VA on choir.

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(edited)

Reading the passionate posts about how TPTB have messed up the Rachel character only reinforces what I have thought for a long time: RIB invented a character that was far too complex and fascinating for their abilities to portray. 

 

It would be an interesting exercise to come up with a list of television writers with the chops to have pulled off portraying her properly. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the industry to offer up my own suggestions, but would be very interested in hearing from those here that do.   

Edited by Omnihelix
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Rachel as a character worked well within the fringes of the back comedy that Glee flirted with, particularly in the first season.

Who wouldn't love a self centered manipulative Diva who tricked 3 guys into thinking they were her sole male lead in the glory that was the " Run Joey Run"video.

It was hilarious how Rachel seemed shocked by the guys' annoyance.

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Reading the passionate posts about how TPTB have messed up the Rachel character only reinforces what I have thought for a long time: RIB invented a character that was far too complex and fascinating for their abilities to portray.

 

 

I don't think Rachel is necessarily too complex for competent writers who can sustain a show over multi seasons.  It is just that RIB aren't those writers.  After all they messed up almost every other character just as badly.  

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Rachel as a character worked well within the fringes of the back comedy that Glee flirted with, particularly in the first season.

Who wouldn't love a self centered manipulative Diva who tricked 3 guys into thinking they were her sole male lead in the glory that was the " Run Joey Run"video.

It was hilarious how Rachel seemed shocked by the guys' annoyance.

 

Agreed, but that was just one facet of the character. She also had been raised by two stage-obsessed fathers to have only one overriding focus-- fame--and who, by her own admission, had been practically friendless her whole life. RIB brought that into the mix too, which to me is beyond quirky black comedy.

 

It could have been a truly great story of someone who managed to find success without losing her humanity. The potential for that was what RIB also gave us in the character of Rachel Berry, and just didn't have the chops to actually build a plausible and compelling tale around it. .Or maybe they just didn't care to. I don't know. 

Edited by Omnihelix
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RIB invented a character that was far too complex and fascinating for their abilities to portray. 

 

 

I think this applies to a lot of characters on Glee, one of them being Rachel (I'd add Kurt, Quinn, Santana, maaaybe Brittany and maaaaybe Blaine to the list). 

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I just think RIB couldn't handle Glee being that successful, morphing into a cultural phenomenon.  With time it just revealed they never really had a game plan, but just milked the cash cow dry until the udder didn't have an ounce left.

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I think it applies to almost every character on Glee.  I mean Finn was a fairly standard archetype (high school popular kid who longs to break free of his role) yet they managed to trash him almost completely by mid season 2 and then in season 4 totally up-ended his original story in a misguided quest to franchise Glee through repopulating the choir room.

Edited by camussie
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yet they managed to trash him almost completely by mid season 2

 

Yup, "Finn is cheated on and yet cheats with Quinn and dumps Rachel " WTF Storyl line of Season 2 just confirmed that the shitty resolutions of S1 arcs wasn't a coincidence or first season jitter, but a fundamental, chronic problem of these writers who don't write for the characters at all. 

Edited by caracas1914
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(edited)

I thought it was actually in character that Jesse St. James was SHOCKED that his schoolwork wasn't done for him in UCLA like it apparently was in Carmel High.

Jesse was self centered and entitled but yea, he worked hard from what we saw in VA on choir.

That was my take on Jesse as well. As Carmen also noted, Jesse had passion for performing. He belonged in a school that specialized in the performing arts, or he should have just ignored college completely and headed straight to Broadway to try his luck. Lazy is not a term I would ever associate with Jesse. ND's lack of preparation, hard work, and rehearsal was one of his main criticisms of them, and why he was so disdainful of them as a group.

I think it applies to almost every character on Glee. I mean Finn was a fairly standard archetype (high school popular kid who longs to break free of his role) yet they managed to trash him almost completely by mid season 2 and then in season 4 totally up-ended his original story in a misguided quest to franchise Glee through repopulating the choir room.

I went from finding Finn to be a likeable doofus to hating him; that's how bad the writers trashed him. I didn't have a problem with the writers making Rachel a bit more likeable and aware of others but instead they turned her into a completely different character in season 2 without showing us why. The repercussions of her mother's rejection etc. were never properly dealt with.

All the characters (who had any significant screen time) were continually being rewritten to suit RIB's plot whims. It was only my investment in the actors that have kept me watching, and even then I only saw about half of season 4 and maybe five hours of season 5.

Season 6 I'm watching but frankly if Samchele was going to be endgame I would have stopped watching a few episodes ago. Have all the songs for season 6 been spoiled? I've lost track.

Edited by Casual Viewing
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Ryder was molested and it was treated like a joke

I remember that one being treated seriously. I mean, they handled it horribly, but it was clear the writers thought they were treating it seriously (it had a very special episode vibe, a la "shooting star".) Again, I am not saying they handled it well, just that of the two modes the writers have (very special episode, or make fun of everything in as offensive a manner as one can), the writers thought they were taking that one seriously. Now, some of the characters didn't, but that's very different than the show itself trying to make a joke out of the topic. I think the writers thought they were trying to realistically portray that teenage guys wouldn't take this seriously when it was done to a guy, and they were not trying to endorse that reaction, but rather highlight the issue, or something. They did a crap job and there is pretty much no point to ever watching Glee attempt to take something "seriously", but I think they thought they were not making a joke out of this one.

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I think it's been spoiled the new Noobs win friggin Nationals this year the first time out...

Because all of the other states Glee Clubs died in a fiery plane crash on the way to Nationals.....???? Because otherwise, I am not seeing how this is explainable. 

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Well the synopsis already calls them IIRC a " supergroup ", I mean how can anything stand against the juggernaut of both New Directions and Warblers combined?

The universe reels.

I also love how the first year they lost to VA at Regionals, the next 2 years they competed against VA at Nationals, and yet now they face them at Sectionals.

Oh Glee.

Edited by caracas1914
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So, per the spoilers, we get this.

 

Blaine - Dalton burns down so he's out of a paying job. He's got no school to return to and no prospects at this point. And no real storyline to start laying down the groundwork for any kind of future career. Now I don't even like Blaine, but this is fucked up.

 

Kurt - Is still at NYADA, but then...? No focus on his plans for a stage career, indication that he plans to start auditioning or how he plans to manage starting a professional career. He's got the potential do to something, but the show has apparently no interest in letting him start exploring it. Instead he's basically there to prop up Rachel.

 

Rachel - Goes to beg for her spot at NYADA and not only will be invited to return, but gets a credible prospect on Broadway after attending one fucking audition (this after quitting both NYADA and Funny Girl). Can't decide so she's not only got Kurt and Sam trying to advise her, but they bring back Jesse after a multi-year absence to be her cheerleader.

 

And the show runners apparently are clueless as to why the audience left in droves.

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Hummelberry duet, yay! And a Tina solo! And I totally see pony becoming a guilty pleasure.

Not gonna lie, I wanted kitty to do popular, but Lea and chris sound good, and yay chris gets to sing on something that isn't a Klaine duet!

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Yay, Tina gets a solo, boo, that song sucks.

Loving Popular as a Hummelberry duet, but I thought they would've smashed Defying Gravity and they didn't.

Artie doing Pony... Looks like he starts and finishes with that awful faux rapper persona.

I'm His Child... I can't think of the original.

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I'm His Child... I can't think of the original.

It's a gospel song from the documentary about Thomas A. Dorsey called "Say Amen Somebody", came out in the early 80's. It's a kind of obscure gospel song, I can think of several more relevant, well known songs as I've only ever heard this one in the documentary.

I really liked how Amber sounded on it though, in the circles I run we'd call her voice "anointed".

The original from the documentary.

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His child- Amber sounds great but I don't like the song.

Pony- A cleaner, boring version of the song. Should have just kept it off the show.

Popular- I'm glad  Kurt/Rachel got a duet, I just wish they gave them a better song.

I kiss a girl- I don't like it at all. Tina sounds so different in it and not in a good way. 

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(edited)

I only like Popular Lea/Chris sound great on it.

Amber sounds good but I don't like the song.

I think Pony/ I kissed a girl are both bad. Jenna and Kevin do not sound great,in large part due to the songs themselves, which is a shame since these are probably their last songs.

All in all pretty disappointing for the penultimate episode.

Edited by shoregirl
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(edited)

I still do not believe the episode only has 4 songs.      Could have given Kurt a solo and/or group song.    Even if they weren't sure where it would aired you have these original 5  all together why not a group song.

 

Popular is great and Amber's song sounds good, but not really into church music, the other two I knew they would be a mess when they were announced.

Edited by tom87
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So, per the spoilers, we get this.

 

Blaine - Dalton burns down so he's out of a paying job. He's got no school to return to and no prospects at this point. And no real storyline to start laying down the groundwork for any kind of future career. Now I don't even like Blaine, but this is fucked up.

I am sure you can stop losing sleep over that character. He will be part of the team of coaches for the supergroup (if only the show had enough time left to portray the expected conflicts and disagreements between the four of them). Plus, they will certainly address the issue of his future in the next episodes, even if it's just in a throwaway line of him getting a letter saying he's been accepted by a great other school. In fact, I would not be surprised if the writers make it so that Rachel pleading with Ms. Thibodeau leads to a package deal being struck, with Blaine being resinstated, Kurt getting the highest marks for his "coaching" of ND and her getting a Broadway timeshare.

 

Dalton burning down reminds me how a few years ago, when the Warblers were first introduced, some people were posting that they wished the school would be destroyed, either by fire, a meteorite or an asbestos crisis, so that the Warblers would get off their screens.

 

Well, they are now getting their wish... although with an unintended consequence: even more Warblers screen time! And a merger with ND!!

 

Ah, the delicious irony that the passing of time brings.

 

A win by the new supergroup is both inevitable, ND being the stars of the show and the Warblers the only other choir that can be described as popular, and credible: they will bring an added heft to the vocals and should encourage the McKHS crowd to dance more energetically and in sync. Even though the new Dalton boys can't hold a candle vocally to the S2 Beelzebubs-provided vocals, the S6 Warblers' physical performance skills are quite convincing  (the vocals being supplied by the usual Glee background studio singers).

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(edited)

They won't make Itune money off any of the 2009 songs, but I thought they were all very in keeping with the episode synopsis of explaining why each of the original members joined Glee Club:

 

  • Lea and Chris sounded Broadway-bound on Popular, singing about wanting to be popular.  Joining Glee fit into their eventual career ambitions.
  • Tina sounded like she did back-in-the-day, when she was angry with blue-hair.  I really loved that Tina. I bet she just wanted to be part of a group.
  • Kevin sounds like Artie being a douche. He probably thought joining Glee Club would help get him laid. Again, very in character.
  • Amber sounds great.  I remember reading spoilers about Mercedes and a church scene.  Mercedes absolutely would have been in the church choir, and I can see her church family encouraging her to pursue singing.  Perhaps her actual family encouraged her as well.  Of course, we'll never know because we'll never see her parents or her brother.  I'm still bitter about that one.
Edited by LydiaMoon1
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So... in a episode focusing on the original five of ND, they couldn't figure out how to squeeze in five solos so that everyone gets their moment. Instead Chris has to share with Rachel and ends up as second voice (though the characterization of that song does make sense, which I will get to in a moment).

 

As for the rest... I love Amber and I generally love her solos, but she's been getting the Darren Criss jukebox treatment this season. Her character hasn't had any real storylines that are playing out on screen except that she flits in an out to play Fairy Godmother to Rachel. She's gotten a lot of solos, though, this season regardless of her limited screen time and non-existent plot focus. I don't mind her having a solo in 2009, but then she's also getting one in the final episode. When you consider that Chris hasn't had a single solo this season (and apparently won't be getting one), there's something very screwed up BTS. My guess is that Amber made coming back for the final season (even in a very limited role) contingent on having a certain number of vocal performances to help her potential employment after Glee.

 

As for the song itself, I don't go much for gospel music and the Pagan in me doesn't love hearing Jesus every five minutes. It's sung beautifully, but it sounds pretty much like every one of Amber's other solos.

 

Tina reprising "I Kissed a Girl" makes no sense. It was a great joke when she used it for her ND audition but the joke has long since grown stale. Of all the songs they could have given a girl who (at that point) was so painfully shy that she invented a stutter to keep people at a distance, using this one again is redundant.

 

"Pony" is a fitting song for Artie (who is still quite the horndog), but once you get past the shock value of him singing about wanting a girl to jump on his dick, there's not much there.

 

As for "Popular", as annoyed as I am that Rachel dominates the song (playing the Galinda part) while Kurt is second voice (as Elphaba), it makes sense with their characterization. Rachel is far more a Galinda type - self-centered, selfish, a know-it-all who actually doesn't know much at all and who does a lot of really shitting things to those that she professes to care about because she thinks that she's right), whereas Kurt is much more like Elphaba - more sincere and caring than Galinda, and far, far stronger. Elphaba is the one who learns to find strength in her own uniqueness and never sacrifices those that she loves for her own benefit. It works with a pre-season one Rachel, who thinks that she's God's gift to the musical universe.

 

As far as the singing on "Popular" goes, Lea is no Kristen Chemoweth even though she's trying to imitate the performance for all she's worth. She not only lacks the lightness that I've always associated with Galinda, but the way that Kristen was able to make herself the butt of the joke. I think that what little they gave Chris to sing he does well with and I would have loved to have seen what he could have done with this song as a solo. But that's a pipe dream.

Edited by Hana Chan
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So the series finale is essentially two straight hours of "the original 5 are the only characters that matter."

Oh wait, Sam and Blaine too. My eyes can't roll hard enough.

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So the series finale is essentially two straight hours of "the original 5 are the only characters that matter."

Oh wait, Sam and Blaine too. My eyes can't roll hard enough.

Yet the new newbies are in the second hour.   :) 

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(edited)

The  new newbies are in the second hour.   :) 

Well, we need something to recover from the pandering to the fetishistic devotion by many fans to the original 5 in the first hour.

 

There's also a whole bunch of returning characters in that last hour, mostly walk-ons with probably little or no dialogue I think.

Edited by Florinaldo
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(edited)

 My guess is that Amber made coming back for the final season (even in a very limited role) contingent on having a certain number of vocal performances to help her potential employment after Glee.

 

I  don't think so because this is the way it has always been when it comes to Amber/Mercedes from the start. The writers hardly ever gave her stories but she was always getting songs, that usually had no context story-wise. This is why I think despite the fact that she didn't have many stories, before Blaine came along, she was third when it comes to solos/songs after Finn and Rachel.  Which is why people complained about her getting songs, while her fans complained about her getting no story-line to go with most of those songs. 

Edited by SevenStars
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So the series finale is essentially two straight hours of "the original 5 are the only characters that matter."

Oh wait, Sam and Blaine too. My eyes can't roll hard enough.

 

Since the originals haven't been getting much, some nothing, in the past few episodes leading up to the finale, I'm okay with this. 

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(edited)

 

 

As for the rest... I love Amber and I generally love her solos, but she's been getting the Darren Criss jukebox treatment this season. Her character hasn't had any real storylines that are playing out on screen except that she flits in an out to play Fairy Godmother to Rachel. She's gotten a lot of solos, though, this season regardless of her limited screen time and non-existent plot focus. I don't mind her having a solo in 2009, but then she's also getting one in the final episode. When you consider that Chris hasn't had a single solo this season (and apparently won't be getting one), there's something very screwed up BTS. My guess is that Amber made coming back for the final season (even in a very limited role) contingent on having a certain number of vocal performances to help her potential employment after Glee.

 

I don't know. As much as I love Amber, I really doubt that she has that kind of pull to demand much of anything. I mean anymore then anyone else on this show does. I think Chris not having had more solos is strange as well, but I'm not sure if I agree his singing time is being used up by Amber. I just don't think RIB are trying to go out of their way doing any favors for Amber and her future employment.

 

 

Amber sounds great.  I remember reading spoilers about Mercedes and a church scene.  Mercedes absolutely would have been in the church choir, and I can see her church family encouraging her to pursue singing.  Perhaps her actual family encouraged her as well.  Of course, we'll never know because we'll never see her parents or her brother.  I'm still bitter about that one.

Agreed. I grew up on gospel music and also appreciate it as an art form. I have to admit the song they had her sing was one I had never heard of, but I like it. I'm not sure if I should be impressed with the Glee producers or not. On the one hand I thought maybe they are so broke now they couldn't afford the rights to a more well known gospel song. Maybe something by Mavis Staples? She has crossover appeal. On the other hand, somebody really has to know their gospel history and black music history to know about Thomas Dorsey, in order for them to pick that song. Or my third option Amber suggested it because she certainly knows her gospel music. Regardless, I thought it was a very fitting song for her. It has been established that Mercedes is religious and sings in her church choir. And most R and B singers start out that way as well. Whitney Houston (Mercedes idol) certainly did. 

Edited by spiritof76
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(edited)

I could have sworn there was a quote saying the original five would each be singing solos (which I thought at the time, "Ha! We'll see!"), but I guess that means each get to sing. Sorry, Kurt! You're not important enough for a solo in the present or past (or probably even future--soon to be confirmed). Seriously, they could have fit more songs in--we know they can do it!

Edited by indeed
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I could have sworn there was a quote saying the original five would each be singing solos (which I thought at the time, "Ha! We'll see!"), but I guess that means each get to sing. Sorry, Kurt! You're not important enough for a solo in the present or past (or probably even future--soon to be confirmed). Seriously, they could have fit more songs in--we know they can do it!

 

I think they were talking about the final episode, and I don't think they were talking about the original 5, but the main characters. At this point,  the only ones we know have solo for the final episodes are Mercedes/Rachel/Will, everyone else is a guess but I'm pretty sure Blaine will get one.

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I think Popular sounds cute--I hope it will be a fun performance--it sounds like it will be.

 

I used to get disappointed by the lack of Chris singing, but, eh, the show's in the can, Colfer's gotten everything he needs to out of Glee, and RIB are just so damn arbitrary about every last thing on this show, it's hard to muster up the energy needed to wonder what's going to happen.  Or really, to wonder what's actually happening when watching a scene.

 

I'm still surprised that Blaine has been such a non-entity this season.  I figured the show was going to focus on Rachel, Blaine and Sam getting wherever they were going to go, especially after the early spoilers where both Rachel and Blaine had crashed and burned their way back to Lima.  Instead it's been the Sue Sylvester Insanity Hour with an odd minute here and there devoted to Rachel lamenting the way things have gone and a few other characters encouraging her to buck up.

 

Oh well, whatev, as I'm sure RIB say about anything and everything this show does or might do or doesn't do or won't do.

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