Spoilers and Discussion

[truthaboutluv]

It sucks that Karofsky is coming back because I always pinpoint his character as when the show went completely off the rails because it simultaneously wanted bullying to be funny and satirical when it happened to the other glee members but then went this dark serious route when it came to Kurt being bullying.

 

This and frankly I view the character as this annoying rash that keeps flaring up everytime you think it's gone and is worse every single time it returns. 

 

Max Adler is apparently getting tons of hater tweets and in some bizarre collateral damage Grant Gustin (Sebastian) now filming FLASH started getting nasty Glee tweets too and has stepped away from social media . WTF? He's not even on the show anymore.

 

 

I am amazed there are enough people left to care enough to even send hate tweets or whatever else to anyone. At this point, I'm amazed everyone isn't beaten down enough to just say "well of course..." to every new shitty and nonsensical spoiler that comes out. 

 

Love is love, but you gotta hate yourself a whole lot to date the guy who threatened to kill your ex. This is way too fucked for me no matter how they made time jump.

 

 

And this is exactly what I've been saying for awhile with regards to the criticisms about Darren and just to be clear this is in no way an attempt to rehash that debate because just...no. But that being said, while Darren is without question no great thespian, I can't place a lot of the failings on Blaine on him because I think from S4 onwards it's been clear the writers have no fucking clue who the character is and they just kept throwing random shit after random shit and it's all been one crappy thing after another.

 

First there was the weird, gross cheating, then there was the creepy crushing on his straight friend, then there was the engagement that both actors playing the pairing hated, then there was that mess in NY that I don't even have words for. And now this - assuming it's not some fakeout, I can't imagine how Darren must feel. He's probably as confused as the viewers and thinking, "wait why would Blaine of all people have any interest in Karofksy?" 

Edited August 22, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Myrna123]

you gotta hate yourself a whole lot to date the guy who threatened to kill your ex.

Ohhh, or you gotta hate your ex a whole hell of a lot.  Wouldn't it be fantastic if Glee went there--Blaine hating Kurt with every fiber of his being for making him cheat on him and behave in other less than stellar ways and punishing him by dating the guy who bullied him in HS?  A gazillion bonus points if Kurt couldn't possibly--not even one tiny little bit--care less.

[whack-a-mole]

Ohhh, or you gotta hate your ex a whole hell of a lot.  Wouldn't it be fantastic if Glee went there--Blaine hating Kurt with every fiber of his being for making him cheat on him and behave in other less than stellar ways and punishing him by dating the guy who bullied him in HS?  A gazillion bonus points if Kurt couldn't possibly--not even one tiny little bit--care less.

I can almost accept this as the only reason Blaine might ever touch Dave without bleach and Febreze being involved. Or drugs, but Kurt already had that with the Santa guy, so I assume we're done with roofies as plot points in gay "romance" on this show.

[caracas1914]

A gazillion bonus points if Kurt couldn't possibly--not even one tiny little bit--care less.

 

Oh Chris would so  make Kurt throw a  "who gives a fuck" icy stare between the inevitable  soul mate dialogue when Blaine blubbering  begs for forgiveness for the upteenth time. 

 

Agree with whoever  said it's all on the writers...it's so obvious they have nothing but contempt  and cynicism for the soul mates endgame bullshit they shovel out.  Most writers/creators, hell even actors will say how they "care" for their characters.    The Glee writers treat the characters as cyphers to shovel the same storylines over and over  again or throw in a new plot twist  for "shock" treament.  The characters are like hamsters in a  caged treadmill  who sing songs every 10 minutes.

Edited August 22, 2014 by caracas1914

[truthaboutluv]

Agree with whoever  said it's all on the writers...it's so obvious they have nothing but contempt  and cynicism for the soul mates endgame bullshit they shovel out.

 

 

Honestly I can't even buy it's contempt for soul-mates/endgame because the simple solution to that is that you break the couple up, end of story. After the hot mess that was Kurt and Blaine in NY or hell since S4, I for one could care less if those two were ever together. So all the writers had to say was time jump, we find out in passing they broke up and we hear about Kurt and his new boyfriend in NY and Blaine and his new boyfriend in Lima or wherever they've stuck him. This ridiculous Karofsky crap to me seems more about one, being shitty writers, two, not liking their own characters and three, more contempt for the viewers than anything. 

Edited August 22, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[caracas1914]

Honestly I can't even buy it's contempt for soul-mates/endgame because the simple solution to that is that you break the couple up, end of story. After the hot mess that was Kurt and Blaine in NY or hell since S4, I for one could care less if those two were ever together. So all the writers had to say was time jump, we find out in passing they broke up and we hear about Kurt and his new boyfriend in NY and Blaine and his new boyfriend in Lima or wherever they've stuck him. This ridiculous Karofsky crap to me seems more about one, being shitty writers, two, not liking their own characters and three, more contempt for the viewers than anything.

I see what you're saying, I guess what I mean is they have contempt for any of the audience who would still buy this concept of soulmate endgame BS. These writers are straight and gay men ( for the most part) who've been divorced, in different relationships , etc ( I guess the showrunners Brad is dating Paltrow now) so some star crossed lovers who end up together since their teens is just a cynical writing tool for them to justify WTF breakups and reconciliations.

It's like writing Santa Claus stories for materialistic kids. It's a job.

Edited August 22, 2014 by caracas1914

[Camera One]

They're just trying to kill time for 10-11 episodes before the endgame reunion.  So many shows do this in the final season, even though viewers who enjoy that couple would arguably prefer to see them gradually grow closer together instead of 90% of the final season episodes mired in the conflict, and then the series finale with the endgame reunion with no space to actually enjoy the couple together.  

 

One blatant example of this was "Friends" with Ross and Rachel, and how the writers wrote the final season.  

[whack-a-mole]

One blatant example of this was "Friends" with Ross and Rachel, and how the writers wrote the final season.  

Weren't people still watching by the end of that?

[Camera One]

Yep, people were still watching.  Though I'm just saying generally, showrunners can make poor choices in the final season which are counter to what fans would have liked.  Of course, "Glee" is "special" in that they have made poor choices every season, progressively worse from year to year such that the audience has dwindled to almost nothing.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Camera One

[Ann Mack]

Glee has ran amuck these past 2 seasons and it appears they are taking that same approach into their last season. Continuity, character growth or development, and strong story lines have never been a matter of concern for this show or its writers. But even they can't be looking at themselves and patting their backs thinking "we have a sheer fire way to win fans back" with this crap, but then again maybe they are which only makes the show more sad and the writers more pathetic. It is so unfortunate that this show has no direction. Some say it might be partly due to Cory's death, and I'm sure that did contribute to some of the changes in script, but this is MO the show started to derail itself in season 4 and by season 5 had flew completely off the rails, I gather season 6 will be the continued motion of the train tumbling over and over and taking out everything in its path. They completely ran wild with the character assassination of the majority of their regular characters. At this point Dianna, Mark and Harry maybe the ones who were able to escape before the show is completely shredded of its remaining dignity. The luckier ones of season 6 will be the new ones that will only be tainted for 13 episodes. I did enjoy this show once upon a time, but I feel many now watch Glee with a cynical eye and a sarcastic smirk just to see how bad it can really get and Glee never fails to deliver or disappoint. It would definitely be a shocker if anything good came out of S6 based on the ridiculous spoilers and that Lea, Darren and Chord are the only ones they seem to care about. Would love to hear more about "the core originals" Ryan Murphy referred to, actually I wouldn't be surprised if even knew who they are. I'm not a big fan of these 3 but these are the ones he is expecting to carry the final season with a few drives by from Naya, Amber and Jenna. No one from the show has really even mentioned what Kevin and Chris may be doing. Sorry I got side tracked. Done with my rant, I just can't with a show that has turned into such a shabby production as Glee has.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Ann Mack

[tom87]

Naya Rivera Dorsey ‏@NayaRivera 3h

Just got my first batch of songs to pre-record next week for the new season of @GLEEonFOX! You're going to love them!

 

Well Santana seems to be back for at least the first couple of episodes.

 

Wonder if they will show her in Lima or somewhere else.

[Hana Chan]

I've been struggling to find some kind of logic and rational with this awful Blaine/Kurofsky spoiler (because I'm apparently a glutton for punishment who can't help from banging my head into a brick wall). The fact is that they want to give Blaine some kind of romantic complication (whether or not it's an actual relationship is very much up in the air) and they are no going to have the budget to bring in a new character just for him. The gay jock that they're writing is going to be jail bait so that won't work, so they have to use one of the few already established gay male characters.

 

The one that would have made sense would have been Sebastian, as he has a history with Blaine and expressed interest in him. But Grant has moved on and is unavailable. So that leaves Dave Karofsky.There's no storyline foundation for this (not that this ever stopped the writers). Dave's interest had been on Kurt and this was something established all the way back in season two and continued through season four. Blaine has had minimal interactions with Karofsky (a grand total of two times - the first in Never Been Kissed and the second in Night of Neglect - and both were antagonistic interactions). Max has had a lot of work in the past few years outside of Glee but if he's in between projects, there's no issue with him doing a few weeks work on Glee (and getting paid for it - actors want to work). So it's going to end up being Dave by default - basically because the actor is available at the moment.

I don't think that it's going to be a real "relationship" (in that Blaine falls in love with Dave) so here are my theories (and mind you - I'm operating on the basis that that the writers have three rational brain cells to split between them). All start off with the basis that Kurt and Blaine have called off their engagement (I highly doubt they are married because there is no way that Ryan Murphy would allow his big Kledding to happen off screen).

 

1) Blaine is using Dave in order to try to make Kurt jealous (which would be a totally shitty thing to do given that Dave has a history of emotional vulnerability, but not beyond Blaine).

 

2) Kurt has a new boyfriend (in NY who we will never see) and Blaine is trying to make Kurt jealous. Dave is going into this in order to help Blaine because he thinks this will make help make Kurt happy in the end (whether to sabotage Blaine's efforts or to actually help reconcile them remains to be seen).

 

3) Dave goes into this with the intention of trying to split Kurt and Blaine up permanently by flattering Blaine and playing on his weakness (the need for attention), so he can try to win Kurt for himself.

 

Either way it plays out, it's going to end up being like Blaine's crush on Sam did - a lot of lip service about how Kurt is Blaine's soulmate but actually having little (if anything) to actually do with Kurt. And it continues to hit me right in my sore spot - that Chris works hard to develop storylines for Kurt, and the writers just transfer everything to Darren and Blaine (who will win everything that Kurt is not allowed to). Chris had great chemistry working with Max, and Darren apparently is only capable of chemistry with himself so this is going to be a complete mess. Chris wanted Kurt to have a real relationship outside of Blaine (even if he accepted an inevitable Klaine reconciliation), but the relationship with Adam was killed off early in order to force a Klaine engagement. Now Blaine will get the boyfriend storyline while Kurt gets...?

[jaytee1812]

I've been struggling to find some kind of logic and rational with this awful Blaine/Kurofsky spoiler (because I'm apparently a glutton for punishment who can't help from banging my head into a brick wall). The fact is that they want to give Blaine some kind of romantic complication (whether or not it's an actual relationship is very much up in the air) and they are no going to have the budget to bring in a new character just for him. The gay jock that they're writing is going to be jail bait so that won't work, so they have to use one of the few already established gay male characters.

 

The one that would have made sense would have been Sebastian, as he has a history with Blaine and expressed interest in him. But Grant has moved on and is unavailable. So that leaves Dave Karofsky.

 

Surely the character that would make total sense would be Sam. Don't get me wrong, a storyline where Blaine is torn between Kurt and Sam still sounds like it sucks, but at least there is a foundation there. 

 

Hopefully it will end with Kurt telling both Blaine and Karofsky to beat it, but I doubt it. 

[indeed]

I think they would spend more money on bringing Max Adler back for a few episodes than hiring an unknown. Karofsky got a decent "ending". Anything other than Dave helping Blaine decorate Dalton for the wedding because he wants to be involved to make it up to Kurt somehow and accidentally develops feelings in the process, leading to Blaine reaffirming his love for Kurt after a bout of cold feet and Dave running into his twu luv at the reception--or another time-waster scenario that winds up harmless enough--I can't see (don't want to see) happening. But here's hoping the writers know what they're doing and MA wouldn't come back if it trashed his character. No paycheck from Glee is probably worth the hate mail and aggravation from the 50 Klaine fans left.

Edited August 24, 2014 by indeed

[truthaboutluv]

I think they would spend more money on bringing Max Adler back for a few episodes than hiring an unknown.

 

 

This. I don't think this has a thing to do with budgetary reasons but like I said above, more to do with their complete delusion that the headline would be "so shocking" that it will entice people to watch if nothing else out of curiosity. And instead, all it's succeeding in doing is all but guaranteeing even more of the maybe 100 who were going to watch, won't. As I noted above, Glee barely has any casual fans anymore, hell Glee barely has hardcore fans anymore.

 

And when they put out shitty crap like that, they're all but guaranteeing the few individuals hanging on will just throw their hands up and give up. I mean this one spoiler has succeeded in pissing off Klaine fans for obvious reasons, Blaine fans, Kurt fans who shipped him with Karofsky and see this as one more of way Kurt being ignored, Karofsky fans who've shipped him with Kurt and loathed Blaine, etc. That's a lot for a fandom that's already down to maybe 100 people. 

Edited August 24, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[whack-a-mole]

I don't think the writers have the sense to realize this is a terrible and deeply messed up idea that is alienating to viewers. There's no upside to Blaine/Dave beyond shock value. Dave would be better off with some new guy where there's a clean slate and it can end well. Let Blaine run around in his superhero costume, play with his puppets, and plan the inevitable big gay wedding glitter bomb. Seriously, these two characters have nothing in common except an awkwardly violent history and making Kurt ugly cry.

 

All that nice rational stuff aside, they did that Finn/Emma thing back when she was having wedding jitters. They love to repeat the same stories, so it'll probably be almost exactly that again. The more fucked in the head, the more they seem to enjoy doing it.  At least they spoiled the shit out of it this early so I know better than to watch.

[Hana Chan]

It would be the height of irony that Blaine - the guy who was so hot to get married in order to make some kind of political statement that he not only proposed marriage while still in high school but literally three minutes after he reconciled with his ex after a long estrangement over infidelity - to be the one to get cold feet. If course Glee will go there, since all Klaine stories over the past two and a half seasons have centered entirely about Blaine, Blaine's feelings and Blaine's needs (with Kurt as little more than an accessory in his own relationship). But it would make much more sense for Kurt to be the one expressing doubts about getting married at this point, at the stage in his life when his career might be getting traction and starting to consider the difference between building a life with Blaine (which has never been shown to be a bed of roses for Kurt) and the gauzy Come What May fantasy that he'd always had about getting married.

 

What a slam would it be for the Klaine stans (who have gone out of their way to torture anyone who disagreed with their ship) for the boys to mutually decide that they just aren't ready to be married at this point and that they are moving apart from one another. High school and college relationships often fail once they are out of school so presenting the possibility that Kurt and Blaine might not have a happily ever after with one another isn't exactly unrealistic. Especially if Blaine has a continued connection to the Warblers (which would require time in Ohio) while Kurt should be focused on building his career in NY.

 

Knowing this show, however, Kurt will nobly sacrifice his career aspirations in order for Blaine to relive his high school glory days wth the Warblers. Because seriously... when was the last time that Kurt's aspirations were given any kind of importance in relation to Blaine (or Rachel)?

[Pink ranger]

Dot Jones said that she will be in the first episode. She of course plays McKinleys football coach so she could be linked to the new out kid and/or Dave K.

[ShadowDenizen]

If I wanted an edgy, dramatic and ultimately pointless musical, I'd pull out my Dancer In The Dark DVD.

 

Wow! What an awesomely esoteric (and oddly apropos) reference! I love it!

And Rachel/Lea Michelle is cleary the Selma/Bjork of the show....

 

That said, I can't bring myself to get any more worked-up (I haven't been truly UPSET about Glee in 3 seasons) than I already am. (Also, I think RM should go back under the bridge he came from and stop trolling for reactions from amongst the few people still watching this crap-fest!)

[tom87]

No surprise Darren was first in today to record  some music. 

[Ann Mack]

No surprise Darren was first in today to record  some music. 

Wonder when Glee is going to figure out that Darren's (Blaine) voice really isn't that good. I honestly don't know why Kevin never had more songs to sing. I can already see how the song distribution is going to go; it really is going to be the Blainechel show. Chord (Sam) might get a few but his voice isn't the strongest either. So bland singers to try and prop up a bland show. Even Lea (Rachel) voice when she sings now is void of emotion and just seem cold (check out Glitter In the Air)! Oh well I'm thinking the singing might suck just as much as the rest of S6 now. 

[tom87]

I liked her last batch of songs for the most part. I liked Glitter in the Air.    I also thought Who are we now  was great and loved her on Pompeii and Pumping Blood.

 

The songs distribution will go as it has for the past  years Lea, Darren and after that a mix between Kevin who may have the 2nd most song of  guys, Naya who said she knew her first batch of a sogns and Amber who got 4 solos in the last 6 episodes.   I would also think Matt will get more cause he  got more in season 5 while they were in LIma.  Wouldn't be surprised if that was part of a deal for him to stay.  Hopefully they use Chris for more than Kaine duets.

 

I am also hoping for Lea/Matt duet or duets.

 

My bigger concern isn't who is singing  with a a smaller cast they all may get a nice amout, but what.  I hope they don't just pick from the top 40 chart.   Darren already hinted at singing Ed Sheeran's song Sing.

 

But most of this was already discussed in the proper  song thread. 

Edited August 26, 2014 by tom87

[ShadowDenizen]

Wonder when Glee is going to figure out that Darren's (Blaine) voice really isn't that good.

 

I respectfully disagree; I think (save for Lea) Darren is up there with most of the original cast in terms of quality, and above most of the newbies in terms of voice talent.

But, it's also not just about singning alone, it's abut charisma and personality, and conveying yourself and your emotions to the audience.

[CleoCaesar]

I respectfully disagree; I think (save for Lea) Darren is up there with most of the original cast in terms of quality, and above most of the newbies in terms of voice talent.

 

I'm inclined to agree. I think Darren is a mediocre-to-terrible actor but I've liked his voice on more than a few songs. It's pleasing and mild, and there are far worse things. Chris's voice sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me, Amber's vocal runs make my ears bleed, Kevin's voice will never not sound nasally. If anything, Darren surpasses the original crop of singers (with the exception of Lea and Naya). Blaine still sucks though.

[Sara2009]

In terms of pure technical ability(personal preference is another matter), Darren is definitely weaker than Kevin and Matt IMO.

I respectfully disagree; I think (save for Lea) Darren is up there with most of the original cast in terms of quality, and above most of the newbies in terms of voice talent.

But, it's also not just about singning alone, it's abut charisma and personality, and conveying yourself and your emotions to the audience.

Personally, I've seen little of that from Darren live or on " Glee." Different strokes and all that jazz.

[Ann Mack]

These are all my opinions: There are definitely different strokes and preferences. I think Lea has a beautiful voice but I don't get real emotion from her when she sings, crunching her face and crying on most of her songs is not real emotion to me but maybe she's trying to convey visibly what I can't hear or feel from her verbally. However, I did love her renditions of "Make You Feel My Love" and "People". I think Amber has a beautiful voice filled with emotion and not given the proper credit for the many different genres she can sing. No one else has ever sang as many different ones as her. As for her runs I quite enjoy them as she and Kevin are the only ones who deliver the soulful songs on the show. Kevin IMO is the best male singer with Matt being 2nd again this is my opinion. Darren voice has been okay to me on a few songs but he seems IMO to strain sometimes as well as Chord. I do believe Chord would do quite well with country songs since he has said he loves them. Naya is good and has a raspy voice that to me is a cross between jazz and soul hopefully these are the types songs that were delivered to her in that batch she received. Jenna's voice is beautiful, soft, and smooth which makes me wonder why her voice has never been utilized to its fullest on Glee. But as I stated before different strokes for different folks and I'm glad there is civil disagreement on this site. Overall IMO Glee has a proper set of singers who are capable of still delivering beautiful music when given the right songs for their voices (and no I'm not a musical genius or prodigy I just know what I like as you all know what you like.)

Edited August 26, 2014 by Ann Mack

[Sara2009]

When it comes to Kevin, Lea, Matt, and Amber, I think a lot of it is about personal preference. I think a legit argument could be made about any of them being the best singer.

[Danielle87]

Kevin and Matt are definitely better technical singers than Darren. Same with Amber being better than Lea. I'd rather listen to Lea anyday of the week though than Amber, and I tend to prefer Darren's voice over Kevin's and Matt's.

 

 

I'm inclined to agree. I think Darren is a mediocre-to-terrible actor but I've liked his voice on more than a few songs. It's pleasing and mild, and there are far worse things. Chris's voice sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me, Amber's vocal runs make my ears bleed, Kevin's voice will never not sound nasally. If anything, Darren surpasses the original crop of singers (with the exception of Lea and Naya). Blaine still sucks though.

 

This is exactly why I'm not big on those three voices. To me, Lea is ten times the singer Amber is, which I know is an unpopular opinion, and why I prefer Darren's voice over Kevins. I go back and forth on Chris. He sounds great on duets, but I just don't care for any of his solos.

 

Matt's voice is gorgeous, but I really don't care for male broadway voices. I tend to prefer Naya's over Amber's, but Naya doesn't really do it for me either.

[Ann Mack]

Kevin and Matt are definitely better technical singers than Darren. Same with Amber being better than Lea. I'd rather listen to Lea anyday of the week though than Amber, and I tend to prefer Darren's voice over Kevin's and Matt's.

 

 

 

This is exactly why I'm not big on those three voices. To me, Lea is ten times the singer Amber is, which I know is an unpopular opinion, and why I prefer Darren's voice over Kevins. I go back and forth on Chris. He sounds great on duets, but I just don't care for any of his solos.

 

Matt's voice is gorgeous, but I really don't care for male broadway voices. I tend to prefer Naya's over Amber's, but Naya doesn't really do it for me either.

 

Why do you feel its an unpopular opinion? Its yours and you are entitled to it. I just happen not to agree with your assessment but I can't say your opinion is wrong because it is indeed yours and that's fine isn't it? I think once you have the producer, writer or whatever capacity Ryan Murphy is involved with the show constantly stating to everyone whenever and however he can that Lea is better than anyone else it can start to resonate. I personally don't think she outshines if any of the other female vocalist (with the exception of Heather) on the show, I do however, think she is the one Ryan Murphy chose to prop up and has done so for the past 5 seasons and will continue to do so into season 6. So therefore, I guess we will agree to disagree.

[Hana Chan]

This is precisely why having such a huge majority of the vocal performances allotted to the same two singers (Lea and Darren) is part of the reason that completely killed Glee. Not everyone loves their voices or thinks that they are so spectacular. Some people do like Amber's voice better than Lea's (or Naya's). Some people prefer Chris and Kevin over Darren. It's a matter of personal taste. The problem is that if you're not a Lea or Darren fan, you're pretty much screwed as a viewer.

 

Glee's vocal performances were much better in the earlier seasons when there was a better distribution. Some singers like Lea did get more songs than others, but you didn't have complete shutouts over long stretches. It is ridiculous that in season 5 Chris got a grand total of one solo the entire season (and not only did we have to wait until nearly the end of the season, but the song was so badly butchered in editing that it was impossible to appreciate). It is ridiculous now that when you've got a core cast of six performers, all of which are at least passable singers, that it's the same two voices all the fucking time.

 

Despite what some might think, in my opinion Glee was never meant to be the Rachel Berry show. Yes, she's a major character, but this was always an ensemble program. Lea's character might be the keystone, but that doesn't negate the fact that the stories and aspirations of the other characters are equally valid and need to be told properly. And on Glee, song performances have always been a big part of their story telling method. Unfortunately the writing is on the wall that we're going to be overwhelmed with Rachel and Blaine focus this season so if you're not a fan of those characters, you're fucked.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Hana Chan

[ShadowDenizen]

This is precisely why having such a huge majority of the vocal performances allotted to the same two singers (Lea and Darren) is part of the reason that completely killed Glee.

 

Do we happen to know the Top 5 (or 10) selling Glee singles?  That might also add to the larger picture. (And personally, I think it's the writing, far more than anything else, that led to the slow decline into the "Glee" that we have now.)

Edited August 26, 2014 by ShadowDenizen

[Ann Mack]

Not sure which are the Top recent Glee songs any more. I would think probably the songs from "The Quarterback" from the most recent season and possibly "Pompeii". I think the song decline started with season 4 and the wild amount of auto-tuning the show began to add to enhance some of the remaining cast vocals along with some of the song choices. I do believe the heyday of Glee soaring on the charts ended when they graduated the majority of the original cast at the end of season 3. Financial wise I think Glee's biggest musical profits probably happened during Seasons 1 thru 3 (pure speculation, I don't check the charts) I could be wrong and maybe people are still buying the songs on Itunes. I too believe that the writing, rehashing of previous story lines, and character assassination contributed to the decline as well. Not ruling out the opinion that the same voices singing too many songs at all (because that may have been the last straw for some) however, IMO there are also other extenuating factors as well that may have led to viewers leaving the show in mass numbers.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Ann Mack

[truthaboutluv]

And personally, I think it's the writing, far more than anything else, that led to the slow decline into the "Glee" that we have now.

 

 

THIS. I've said it before and I will say it again, people have their favorites, I get that and the actors/characters they hate which I also get but I will never buy this "oh this person sang too much and that's why the show's ratings fell" excuse. The show's ratings fell because the writing for it sucked ass and ALL the characters suffered for it imo, solos or not. 

Edited August 26, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[ShadowDenizen]

I just think (Ryan Murphy's "enthusiasm" for certain actors aside) that they wouln't continue to give that much song-time to the actors who weren't consistently bringing in sales for the singles.

 

And Rachel/Lea & Blaine/Darren (and Chord to a lesser degree, although that one boggles my mind; Chord is absoutely not in the same class as the other 2!!) are certainly the "faces" of Glee for the final season.

 

 

[Ann Mack]

IMO It might not be that they are consistently bringing in sales, but that the show is primarily about music and someone has to sing the songs. With Lea, Darren, Chord, Chris and Kevin being the returning Glee kids and nothing much being said about Kevin and Chris at all I guess there will be lots of focus on Chord, Darren and Lea. Seems with the reduced staff or others pursuing other avenues outside of Glee that seem to indeed be the core focus for the season.  

[Pink ranger]

Do we happen to know the Top 5 (or 10) selling Glee singles?  That might also add to the larger picture. (And personally, I think it's the writing, far more than anything else, that led to the slow decline into the "Glee" that we have now.)

I don't think that a complete up to date tally of single sales is available but Billboard released these digital download figures in February 2011, mid season 3. Glees overall sales started to badly drop not long after this but the Adele mash up and Darren's and Matt Bomers duet from Big Brother where huge break out hits so could also be part of today's best seller list.

10 Total Eclipse of the Heart- 291, 000

9) Singing in the Rain/Umbrella- 315, 000

8) It's my life/ confessions part 2- 325 000

7) Poker Face- 326 000

6) Halo/ Walking on sunshine- 337 000

5) Somebody to love- 338 000

4) Defying Gravity- 375 000

3) Teenage Dream- 440 000

2) Forget you- 526 000

1) Don't stop Believing- 1,102 000

www.billboard.com/articles/list/473833/video-the-10-most-popular-glee-performances?page=0%2C9

[camussie]

Despite what some might think, in my opinion Glee was never meant to be the Rachel Berry show. Yes, she's a major character, but this was always an ensemble program.

 

 

Answering in the general show thread

[jaytee1812]

Hopefully all these new songs are all done sitting down or standing still, because apart from Matthew Morrison there's not a decent dancer left. 

[Sara2009]

Maybe Artie can have a few fantasy sequences. Kevin and Matt are by far the best dancers left, but Darren and Chris are at least decent.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Sara2009

[camussie]

I think Darren is decent but Chris isn't all that good.  Jenna is actually a pretty good dancer so they should have her doing some during her episodes.  

[tom87]

Never cared to much about the dancing tbh.  I like the cheesy  choreography and all the hand gestures in season 1 for the glee club.  Seemed more like a real choir.

When Heather or Harry visit I am all for it but otherwise I do not care if the background players are doing the major moves.

[bjork]

I know you've been anxiously wondering how they get Kurt to Lima. Well, pretty reliable spoiler source mjsbigblog has got you covered:

 

The time jump between the Season 5 finale and the Season 6 premiere is only 6 months.

    Rachel (Lea Michele) AND Kurt (Chris Colfer) are leading New Directions. Kurt is earning NYADA credit for his efforts. So, yes, he’s still a student.

    Blaine (Darren Criss) is leading The Warblers at Dalton. I don’t know the circumstances that bring him to Dalton, or whether he is still a NYADA student or not.

    I’m not sure why Rachel is in Ohio either, but we can probably assume she returned home from Los Angeles after her pilot failed.

    Will Schuester (Matt Morrison) is heading up Vocal Adrenaline

    Karofsky (Max Adler) will be Blaine’s new love interest. Max is locked in for at least half a season’s worth of episodes. I am not clear on whether Blaine and Kurt are together or apart when season 6 begins, or whether they break up later. I also don’t know whether Blaine/Karofsky are together in the first episode, or something develops later.  I am working to find out answers to these questions.

    There are no definite plans to use the Season 4/5 newbies. HOWEVER they will most likely come back near the end of the season for one or two episodes. I am guessing there will be a big reunion of Glee alumni at series finale time.

    The five new McKinley High kids will be incorporated into the first two episodes to some degree, but their story lines are still being developed.

    I don’t have plot specifics at this time on other characters–Santana (Naya Rivera), Artie (Kevin McHale), Sam (Chord Overstreet) etc.  The minute I know something, I’ll post it here.

Doesn't that sound like something...that I hope to never accidentally see on my television screen?

[tom87]

I am so sure the country's most prestigious performing arts school would give credit to a student coaching a glee club in a different state.

 

How is this a good set up for any of these characters to end thier stories on?

Edited August 27, 2014 by tom87

[camussie]

None of that makes sense especially in regards to the season 4 newbies.  They would be in the middle of their senior year so why wouldn't we see them at McKinley?  Also why would both Blaine & Kurt be back in Ohio instead of at school?  I swear RM & team always take the show in the most illogical direction possible.  

[jaytee1812]

None of that makes sense especially in regards to the season 4 newbies.  They would be in the middle of their senior year so why wouldn't we see them at McKinley?  

 

They could be at McKinley but not in glee. Or they've all mysteriously transferred.

[Hana Chan]

If it's only a six month jump, then one of two things are going on with Rachel. Either her pilot failed (not picked up by the network) or she waiting to hear if it's going to be picked up (because they won't film further episodes without the network picking up the show). So she's either biding her time while waiting to hear back about the show or she's actually in Lima at loose ends because she's... gasp... totally fucked her career. She wouldn't have been in LA long enough to have grown bored and disenchanted with being a TV film star (the way they wrote off her Broadway career).

 

Kurt getting NYADA credits is... questionable. Yes, volunteering can get you credits if you're doing work in your field but not as a substitute for actual classwork. It makes absolutely no sense for Kurt to sacrifice a semester of classes (and the intensive training that he's at NYADA for) to schlep out to Lima to work with his old show choir. A week or two... maybe. But I just can't see Kurt staying there the whole time. Maybe just long enough for Rachel to get things off the ground before he either returns to NY for school or finds some kind of professional opportunity.

 

As for Blaine and Karofsky (gonna say it again... Dave does not deserve this)... makes no sense unless Blaine stays in Lima while Kurt goes back to NY. Maybe Blaine drops out of NYADA on the promise of his benefactor getting him work (which didn't materialize) and like Rachel he's in Ohio because he screwed up his career prospects. Or Kurt has broken up with Blaine and this is a conspiracy to make Kurt jealous so that he takes the Grease Stain back. Either way... just can't get myself to give a rat's ass.

 

I was expecting a lot more of a time jump since they now have to explain what happen to the old noobs (who were all underclassmen and should be there) and we get new noobs to take their places. But like everything else here, it just makes no sense.
.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Hana Chan

[whack-a-mole]

I think I threw up in my mouth a little. Six months and all those people are happy to be in Lima again and getting top musical theater in the country credit for running high school show choirs? They wanted nothing more than to leave. We have a goddamn Dave/Blaine/Kurt love triangle, which is the most vile kind I can imagine given the history amongst the characters. They're all fucked up beyond recognition by this as you know it'll swing around multiple ways making them all unredeemable, unrecognizable, and unrootable in any combination.

 

Glee ended in seaon 5. This is their way of punishing the fans for failing to appreciate those new kids they were determined have keep the show going as their cash cow forever.  Fuck the producers, whose shows I'll never watch again. Lesson learned. Fuck FOX who lets this kind of shit happen on their network and is willing to put their name on it. Fuck every last deity that might cause me to fail to fast forward though the commercials so that I might catch any portion of a promo for this that might cause my eyes to bleed from the grossness.  I'm out. Any fond feelings of nostalgia I had about the show that might cause me to tune in ever again are officially dead.

 

Have fun, y'all. If you want to find me I'll be kicking around other forums for shows that aren't having a shark jumping contest.

[Hana Chan]

I'm betting that the writers were genuinely not expecting Chris to be available for filming the first few episodes, hence we have him being shoehorned into Rachel's storyline (because if they're paying their GG winning actor, they might as well use him). As for Blaine... I think that they meant for him and Karofsky to start getting closer while Kurt was "away" (given how well we know of Blaine's ability to stay faithful when separated from his "soulmate"). Whatever real storyline they might have planned for Kurt will probably not happen until midway through the season (when they expected Chris to be back for filming). Now they're going to have to either write an off-screen break up for Klaine, or have Blaine really look like a total asshole and cheating again. They're at the point where they are going to make an eventual Klaine wedding impossible to justify.

 

Even so, it just shows the writers for the total hacks that they are. Chris has been stating in interviews all summer that his movie isn't filming until after Glee finishes production, and with production already pushed back because of the reduced order (and BTS negotiations with the network), there was plenty of time for the writers to make adjustments without looking like total amateurs. It really goes to show just how badly things are being handled behind the scenes.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Hana Chan

[camussie]

Honestly it is just bad plotting to only have a 6 month time jump.  It brings up a lot of issues they have to deal that they wouldn't have had to deal with if they did a 3 year jump

• The sophomores - so they are still going to be at McKinley but we will never see them.  How dumb
• Blaine, Kurt, Dave, and Artie - the stupid contrivances to have them in Lima instead of attending college

 

If they had done a 3 year time jump they could have still

• Had Rachel's TV show going down in flames with her taking the brunt of the blame and she needs to come back to Lima to re-group
• The issue of the sophomores would be moot since they would have graduated
• They could have set Dave up as the football coach at Dalton and that is how he and Blaine connect.  Maybe Blaine is home for a few months after he finishes college as he and Kurt are having problems.  He decides to keep busy by helping out at Dalton and low and behold Karofsky is the football coach there.  They connect/flirt and maybe that ends Blaine/Kurt forever but maybe it doesn't. 
• They could have had Artie undertaking his first post graduate film project about something he knows about - the importance of arts education and how it is playing out with his three former choir mates competing against each other
• Mercedes (since apparently she is going to be a regular according to this article on Eonline) could be taking a sabbatical from a grueling touring schedule.

 

I can't even imagine how contrived the explanations are going to be why Blaine, Kurt, and Artie are all hanging around Lima instead of attending college in New York and why Mercedes is hanging around Lima just as her career was taking off  Why do I foresee another Burt illness coming along?

 

At least someone realized Rachel and the boys was not enough vocal diversity so they are bringing back Mercedes as a regular as well.  That is really the only good thing I can say about these spoilers.

Edited August 27, 2014 by camussie

[Hana Chan]

I have to admit that I am really, really shocked (in a good way) that they are actually going there and having Rachel's acting career on the rocks. Her tv show a flop, presumably blacklisted from Broadway after quitting Funny Girl (and I would not be surprised if there is a lawsuit lurking in the background) and NYADA closed to her because she completely burned her bridges there. They've been setting up Rachel for a big professional fall for a long time now, but kept giving her the magic escape trapdoor. Guess they decided that it's the last season so they might as well go crazy and actually have her deal with some consequences of her decisions.

 

I can totally see her trying to guilt Kurt into sticking around Lima with her since he still has all those opportunities and prospects that she so carelessly threw away waiting for him in NY. I'm hoping that it does come to a head and Kurt stands up to her that she shouldn't expect him to sacrifice his career goals just to make her feel better about totally fucking hers up.

 

Am glad to see that Amber will be back as a regular because they need a more than just one girl and a bunch of white guys to carry this show to the end. Am still expecting it to be a complete and utter train wreak of epic proportions and will make the finale of True Blood look like a masterpiece in comparison.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Hana Chan