The Winds Of Winter: Book 6 Will Arrive...Someday

[Macbeth]

GRRM has given us a great series.  I would never had read the books, if the show didn't exist. But I have accepted that he will probably never finish the series.

 

The first 3 books were published within a four year period. It has take 11 years for the next 2.  It doesn't appear that GRRM had a plan after the Red Wedding.  He might have had a general direction but that is it. 

 

The last 2 books felt more like he wanted to explore the world he created than to tell a story.

 

It feels like the show has a much clearer vision.  And for that I am grateful.  I want to know how it ends.  As long as it is being told by a good storyteller - its fine if the show takes over.

 

 

[Maximum Taco]

GRRM has given us a great series.  I would never had read the books, if the show didn't exist. But I have accepted that he will probably never finish the series.

 

The first 3 books were published within a four year period. It has take 11 years for the next 2.  It doesn't appear that GRRM had a plan after the Red Wedding.  He might have had a general direction but that is it. 

 

The last 2 books felt more like he wanted to explore the world he created than to tell a story.

 

It feels like the show has a much clearer vision.  And for that I am grateful.  I want to know how it ends.  As long as it is being told by a good storyteller - its fine if the show takes over.

 

I think he has big events planned out and he tries to build towards them, but he doesn't plan out anything inbetween those big events, he just tries to write his way there.

 

Like the first big event was Ned's Death, then the Battle of the Blackwater, then the Red Wedding and now the Battle of Meereen. But he has no clue what to put in the middle. That was fine at first, because the big events happened every book. Ned died in AGOT, Blackwater happened in ACOK and the Red Wedding happened in ASOS. It was easy to fill in those little gaps because he knew where everyone needs to be during the big events.

 

But the Red Wedding and the Battle of Meereen have 2 whole books inbetween them, and that's why it feels like nothing is happening. He just couldn't find a way to put the Battle for Meereen in the giant book that would've been AFFC/ADWD (hence the infamous Meereenese Knot) and therefore it just dragged because there's two whole books of what is essentially filler between his big events.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Minneapple]

I love Sansa's new chapter. This is what I've been waiting for from Sansa, learning how to play the game, learning how to use her feminine wiles yet still retaining her Sansa-ness. Remembering running around with Jeyne Pool and Arya and the mention of Robb (sniff), being kind to the stuttering knight. I sincerely hope she never marries Harry -- the guy appears to be a douche through and through. I also hope that she retains that Sansa-ness and doesn't become a mini-Cersei, i.e. fall too headlong in love with manipulation and game playing.

 

I'm really glad that they've sped up Sansa's arc on the show so hopefully we see this development play out on screen this season.

[Holmbo]

When watching the first episode of the new season I realized that I've no somehow adapted Robin being LF's son as canon. When LF was saying he has other strengths I was like you just don't want to admit that your son is crap. Of course then he made it into a joke but the feeling stuck with me of LF being like a dad who pretends that his kid doesn't suck at some sport.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Holmbo

[nksarmi]

I came to the books because of the series and I have to tell you - if I had read up more about GRRM, I would have never touched them lol.  I'm honestly not sure why books 4 and 5 couldn't have been edited down into one book.  Why didn't he just write some short stories in the same world to explore all these characters that clearly don't matter since the show has cut them (thank goodness)?  When he announced that we wouldn't get a book this year in January (like come on - you know there is no way you can get it done anytime this year????!?!?) - I just gave up. 

 

The only way I will read this next book is if I don't know the fate of Jon Snow when it comes out.  And even then, I might just rely on the Internet to tell me if Jon lives or dies and how.

[Lady S.]

Or you can just wait for Kit to start filming s6 in only a few months to confirm Jon isn't gone for good. They can't really hide it if he's still a major character.

[nksarmi]

Or you can just wait for Kit to start filming s6 in only a few months to confirm Jon isn't gone for good. They can't really hide it if he's still a major character.

You are correct -  I forgot how long they film for this show.  If that is the case, I wonder if they will skip the cliff-hanger altogether and just tell us how he survives at the end of the season.  At this point, that would have more shock value than the stabbing itself.

[Holmbo]

You forgot though that viewers who keep up with who is filming or not are a minority. Most people are just causal watchers who might think No Jon died! And then be pleasantly surprised when he returns the next season.

Personally I'd rather not have a cliff hanger because I think it feels a bit cheap. Like having to lure people back when the show itself is enough. But maybe they won't have time to cover the resolution.

[DigitalCount]

Also, as has been said, Charles Dance was credited for his appearance as Eye Pebbles Guy #3.

[FurryFury]

Obviously, GRRM no longer values his books above fame.  My biggest fear is that Brandon Sanderson will have to finish up the series like he did for Robert Jordan's series - Wheel of Time.  Brandon will produce a better product than GRRM at this point but it will mean a delay in his epic series - Stormlight Archive.  Although it woud be pretty awesome for Neal Stephenson and Joe Abercrombie to partner and give this series a fitting end.

Oh my god, yes. I'm way more invested in Stormlight Archive than I've been in ASOIAF since book 3. And while I've yet to read Stephenson, somebody like Abercrombie could probably finish up the series if need be, his style is close enough.

 

I do think they'll make Jon's death the cliffhanger, although I think choosing his resurrection/warging/whatever would be so much cooler.

 

I haven't been around when Sansa's chapter was released and I'm not sure I care enough about the character to read it only to re-read once the book is out... Could someone tell what was the pre-release fuss all about? What was so "shocking"?

Edited April 27, 2015 by FurryFury

[WearyTraveler]

I didn't find anything shocking in it.  She's learned a lot from LF and is intent on making Harry the Heir fall for her, she flirts with him, but it's nothing outrageous.  Her internal monologue is more mature, but I'd say she's farther along on the show.

[FurryFury]

Thanks.

[ulkis]

Eh, so much for the Star Wars theory.  From Martin's blog:

And while I am debunking rumors, let me also say that this story about me being inspired to finsh WINDS by STAR WARS is also utter bullshit, and I have NO idea where that one came from.

 

 

He seems so offended at the thought. Like, is it because he's being reminded for the billionth time to hurry on the book, or is it the notion that something as pedestrian as apparently he finds Star Wars  could inspire him/excite him?

[Lady S.]

I'd be very surprised if Martin isn't an old school Star Wars fanboy, it's probably just the silliness of the rumor that annoys him.

 

So Stannis is gonna burn Shireen, huh? That sounds like a big book spoiler. (And yes, I don't think Stan's involvement in her demise is a D&D invention. The AA/Nissa Nissa story now feels like foreshadowing for the false AAR, and Martin's whole thing is people in conflict over terrible decisions feeling like they have no choice.) 

[Avaleigh]

I think one of the reasons GRRM is having Val comment on Shireen's greyscale is to give readers a hint as to why the wildlings would stand by and watch some innocent kid being burned. I'm assuming they're going to be thinking about that especially if there's some sort of outbreak at the Wall. 

 

I agree that Patchface is going to burn with Shireen and that his death could be the cause of something sinister although I'm not sure what. There has to be a reason Mel thinks he's so dangerous. 

[benteen]

Patchface seems like he became much more of a prophet for the Drowned God than Damphair ever did.  Seriously, I'd love the Ironborn to figure out that the fool who drowned seems to understand things a lot better than them.

[Danny Franks]

Oh my god, yes. I'm way more invested in Stormlight Archive than I've been in ASOIAF since book 3. And while I've yet to read Stephenson, somebody like Abercrombie could probably finish up the series if need be, his style is close enough.

 

Me too. A lot of people try to mock Brandon Sanderson's writing, for various reasons, but at least he actually writes. Prolifically. The Way of Kings is honestly one of the finest fantasy novels I've read since The Fires of Heaven (the last great Wheel of Time novel), and Words of Radiance just built on it.

 

In fact, there are plenty of new, young fantasy authors now who are doing a much better job than GRRM. Brian Staveley, Anthony Ryan, Django Wexler, Miles Cameron (also Christian Cameron, for his historical fiction), John Gwynne. I've enjoyed their work far more than I enjoyed the last two books GRRM wrote.

 

The World of Ice and Fire proved that GRRM has a wonderful imagination and capacity for world building, history building and short story telling. That seems to be where his passion lies; in crafting a few paragraphs to encapsulate some event or figure or place, and then moving on. Writing actual novels seems like a chore and a burden he has no real desire to carry.

 

Patchface seems like he became much more of a prophet

 

 

 

Robin Hobb should sue. Perhaps it's her fault though, that I automatically see any jester figure as a prophet now. Hell, Brandon Sanderson used that idea as well, in The Stormlight Archive.

[GreyBunny]

^ Thanks for the recommendations.  I'll have to check out those authors. 

[Danny Franks]

^ Thanks for the recommendations.  I'll have to check out those authors. 

 

I'd recommend starting with The Red Knight by Miles Cameron. Really, really good fantasy novel, in a well visualised world and with memorable characters. It has plenty of grit, but never veers into bleakness for more than a few pages.

[Holmbo]

Yes thanks for book recommendations. I feel sad about losing my enjoyment of this show this season. So the best way to remedy that is probably too dive in some new stories. I'll have a lot of time now during the summer to read.

[FurryFury]

A lot of people try to mock Brandon Sanderson's writing, for various reasons, but at least he actually writes.

 

I was very meh on his writing until Stormlight. It was a MASSIVE leap for him as a writer, I think. I was really impressed.

 

Not to mention that a lot of the themes in the series (like depression and other mental disorders) is something that's not often explored in fantasy in general, so this is a huge plus for me.

 

The World of Ice and Fire proved that GRRM has a wonderful imagination and capacity for world building, history building and short story telling. That seems to be where his passion lies; in crafting a few paragraphs to encapsulate some event or figure or place, and then moving on. Writing actual novels seems like a chore and a burden he has no real desire to carry.

 

I guess he's really turning into Tolkien. I've always felt like JRRT was a much, much better worldbuilder than writer.

 

Hell, Brandon Sanderson used that idea as well, in The Stormlight Archive.

 

Not quite. That person, Hoid, is actually a recurring character in many of his work, so jester was simply one of his many guises. Sanderson has a very complicated mythology in his multiverse.

[feverfew]

Me too. A lot of people try to mock Brandon Sanderson's writing, for various reasons, but at least he actually writes. Prolifically. The Way of Kings is honestly one of the finest fantasy novels I've read since The Fires of Heaven (the last great Wheel of Time novel), and Words of Radiance just built on it.

 

In fact, there are plenty of new, young fantasy authors now who are doing a much better job than GRRM. Brian Staveley, Anthony Ryan, Django Wexler, Miles Cameron (also Christian Cameron, for his historical fiction), John Gwynne. I've enjoyed their work far more than I enjoyed the last two books GRRM wrote.

I'll second the recommendation for The Way of Kings: Sanderson's first trilogy The Mistborn had some clever plotting, but his characters often felt flat. With WoK he really hit his stride. Abercrombie is too bleak, too grimdark for my taste, and probably not a good choice if one feels depressed after the lastest episode of GoT.

 

For interesting female characters I'll recommend Robin Hobb's The Liveship Traders. One should probaly read the trilogies in the order of 1) Farseer, 2) Liveship Traders and 3) Tawny Man, but I read Liveship first, and it really made no difference. Actually while I thought The Tawny Man trilogy had some beautiful moments, I never really got nor liked Fitz as a character, and the lone woman in the series, Molly, felt more like a catalyst for manpain than a character in her own right.

 

For a palate cleanser, I alway recommend Diana Wynne Jones. Her Darklord of Derkholm is such a fun take on the traditional fantasy quest novel, and I'll never not love Howl's Moving Castle.

Edited June 17, 2015 by feverfew

[Holmbo]

I agree Abercrombie is probably not the best author to turn to. At least the books I read by him were very dark and very slow.

Robin Hobb has also written The Rain Wild Chronicles which takes place after those three series you mentioned. I guess it is best to read them in somewhat order. I read the last book in the Tawny Man trilogy, then I went back and read all the earlier books with Fitz. Later I read The Rain Wild Chronicles and after that the Liveship Traders. Which was not the ultimate order :D

I don't know if I have any author recommendations of my own to add. I really enjoyed The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch. But it's very different from epic fantasy. It takes place in this sort of late medieval Venice city.

Then if anyone is in the mood for some short books of feel good fantasy you could read The Riyria Revelations by Michael Sullivan.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Holmbo

[DigitalCount]

Holy mackerel more Stormlight praise. The biggest mistake I ever made re: fantasy novels was reading those two books to "tide me over" until Winds. I have since made a pact never to read an unfinished series ever again, since I'm currently dealing with the same in The Dagger and The Coin, as well as ASOIAF of course.

I was okayish on Abercrombie with Best Served Cold, but the others I tried out seemed like Ramsey to GRRM's Roose, if that makes sense. Glad to see some titles that people who seem to have similar tastes have enjoyed; guess I'm heading to the library soon.

[feverfew]

I agree Abercrombie is probably not the best author to turn to. At least the books I read by him were very dark and very slow.

Robin Hobb has also written The Rain Wild Chronicles which takes place after those three series you mentioned. I guess it is best to read them in somewhat order. I read the last book in the Tawny Man trilogy, then I went back and read all the earlier books with Fitz. Later I read The Rain Wild Chronicles and after that the Liveship Traders. Which was not the ultimate order :D

Heh. Yeah, it must have been a bit confusing reading Fool's Fate before the rest :) The reason I didn't mention The Rain Wilds Chronicles was because I found them to be utterly disappointing compared to The Liveship Traders. I wanted to read more about Wintrow and Malta, not random dragons and their handlers, dammit! :)

 

Holy mackerel more Stormlight praise. The biggest mistake I ever made re: fantasy novels was reading those two books to "tide me over" until Winds. I have since made a pact never to read an unfinished series ever again, since I'm currently dealing with the same in The Dagger and The Coin, as well as ASOIAF of course.

If you have the patience for it, there's always Steven Eriksson. His Malazan Book of the Fallen is a finished series of ten books, is high fantasy and rather good. It took me some time to really get into the series, and it reminds me quite a lot of early Jordan, but I think it belongs up there with Wexler/Ryan/Sanderson. Or if you find a series of ten books daunting, you could read Guy Gavriel Kay's Tigana. I'm pretty sure Martin has read that one, because there's a lot of parallels between his world and Kay's: differing POV's, shades-of-grey characters, and marvellous world-building.

Edited June 17, 2015 by feverfew

[Holmbo]

Heh. Yeah, it must have been a bit confusing reading Fool's Fate before the rest :) The reason I didn't mention The Rain Wilds Chronicles was because I found them to be utterly disappointing compared to The Liveship Traders. I wanted to read more about Wintrow and Malta, not random dragons and their handlers, dammit! :)

.

I actually understood everything in Fool's Fate except who Starling was.

I liked the chronicles. I really disliked her latest book though, Fool's Assassin. That one I would never recommend to anyone.

[Danny Franks]

I'll second the recommendation for The Way of Kings: Sanderson's first trilogy The Mistborn had some clever plotting, but his characters often felt flat. With WoK he really hit his stride. Abercrombie is too bleak, too grimdark for my taste, and probably not a good choice if one feels depressed after the lastest episode of GoT.

 

For interesting female characters I'll recommend Robin Hobb's The Liveship Traders. One should probaly read the trilogies in the order of 1) Farseer, 2) Liveship Traders and 3) Tawny Man, but I read Liveship first, and it really made no difference. Actually while I thought The Tawny Man trilogy had some beautiful moments, I never really got nor liked Fitz as a character, and the lone woman in the series, Molly, felt more like a catalyst for manpain than a character in her own right.

 

See, I read the Farseer trilogy when I was a teenager, when I was going through many of the same 'who am I? What do I want?' questions that Fitz was going through. As a result, he's one of my favourite characters in all of literature, right down to his sulky, self-centred boots. He feels so real, and you get inside his head so much (though I've decided not to read the new trilogy because, honestly, I think Fitz's story has been told).

 

I loved the first person perspective, because Fitz is an unreliable narrator at times. He puts his own spin on events, he remembers things in certain ways (or forgets them, which has a serious effect on the narrative), and sometimes things just bounce off his brain, without him recognising them. I've enjoyed re-reading the series, and trying to figure out some more of what was really going on, that he was too dense to pick up on. Kettricken being in love with him, for example, which seemed to be just beyond his realm of comprehension. Speaking of, I always liked her much, much more than Molly.

 

I did find Mistborn a little lacking, really. None of the characters were that interesting, once you got down to it. Vin and Elend were a rather insipid romance. But yeah, the ideas behind the series were really cool.

 

have since made a pact never to read an unfinished series ever again, since I'm currently dealing with the same in The Dagger and The Coin, as well as ASOIAF of course.

 

 

Hey, I picked up books one to seven of The Wheel of Time as a boxed set in 1997, thinking that it was a complete story. I've spent half my damned life waiting for the conclusion!

 

For fans of multi-book series, I would recommend The Expanse by James S.A. Corey (really Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck collaborating). Very cool scifi series, set in a solar system with three different factions, vying for power. Oh, and Syfy are turning it into a TV show, to air later this year.

[FurryFury]

Sorry I could never recommend Malazan to anybody. Erikson may be a good worldbuilder (no idea if it's true) but he's an absolutely shitty writer. Yeah, really shitty. I've tried reading the first book THREE times and the most I could stomach was 1/3. It was just bad. Bad plotting, bad pacing, bad characterization, mediocre prose... Ugh. I've no idea why he's popular. So dull.

 

I've read 1 book of Hobb's ages ago and it was way too slow for me. But it was not bad otherwise. Also, really depressing.

 

Vin and Elend were a rather insipid romance.

 

I actually quit reading because of them (well, Elend) in book 2. Horrible romance, horrible character. I hear good things about the new Mistbord trilogy however. It's after a big timeskip, AFAIK. Maybe I will try it at some point.

 

Or if you find a series of ten books daunting, you could read Guy Gavriel Kay's Tigana.

 

Kay writes probably the best prose in fantasy genre right now (of those writers I've seen at least), but holy shit the only book of his I finished is Lions of Al-Rassan. It's actually one of my favorite books ever and I heartily recommend it to anybody. It's basically fantasy Spanish Reconquista and it's terrific. But his other books? They are all really beautiful and have some awesome moments and memorable characters... but they all have some sort of flaws I can't stand. Like Marty Stu leads, gratuitous bondage, forced romances - stuff like that. Ugh. As for Tigana, the whole concept of a woman falling in love with a man who destroyed her home and people was something I couldn't sympathize with, sorry to say.

[feverfew]

Sorry I could never recommend Malazan to anybody. Erikson may be a good worldbuilder (no idea if it's true) but he's an absolutely shitty writer. Yeah, really shitty. I've tried reading the first book THREE times and the most I could stomach was 1/3. It was just bad. Bad plotting, bad pacing, bad characterization, mediocre prose... Ugh. I've no idea why he's popular. So dull.

 

I've read 1 book of Hobb's ages ago and it was way too slow for me. But it was not bad otherwise. Also, really depressing.

 

I actually quit reading because of them (well, Elend) in book 2. Horrible romance, horrible character. I hear good things about the new Mistbord trilogy however. It's after a big timeskip, AFAIK. Maybe I will try it at some point.

 

Kay writes probably the best prose in fantasy genre right now (of those writers I've seen at least), but holy shit the only book of his I finished is Lions of Al-Rassan. It's actually one of my favorite books ever and I heartily recommend it to anybody. It's basically fantasy Spanish Reconquista and it's terrific. But his other books? They are all really beautiful and have some awesome moments and memorable characters... but they all have some sort of flaws I can't stand. Like Marty Stu leads, gratuitous bondage, forced romances - stuff like that. Ugh. As for Tigana, the whole concept of a woman falling in love with a man who destroyed her home and people was something I couldn't sympathize with, sorry to say.

Going off topic for a moment, this is so interesting, because I've found myself agreeing with you on several other topics in several other shows (The 100, Arrow/Flash etc) so for us to be diverging so much on this makes my head spin ;) While I agree that Malazan isn't poetry in writing, I still think it's a nice summer read and certainly no worse than Jordan. But then again I still love David Eddings' The Eleniad and that one's definitely never going to win any prizes for either prose or characterization.

 

For Tigana, I think the point was to prove that our definition of heroes and villains depend entirely on which characters we are led to sympathize with, and while her story wasn't my favourite, I still found it beautiful and interesting in it's own way. One of the reasons being that I don't think we were meant to read that storyline as romantic at all. It reminded me a bit of the slavegirl in the last season of Spartacus, actually.

 

I'm thinking maybe we could have a thread (in the main topic?) for recommendations while we wait for the next book? I love reading all of you guys' recs, but maybe we are going too off topic here?

Edited June 21, 2015 by feverfew

[FurryFury]

While I agree that Malazan isn't poetry in writing, I still think it's a nice summer read and certainly no worse than Jordan.

 

Well, I've never read Jordan, so you may very well be right. Overall, I'm a story structure nerd, I guess. I get off on good plotting. One of the reasons I'm so frustrated with GRRM lately is that AFFC/ADWD structure makes no sense (now, AGOT was a pretty well-structured book. Not the best, but perfectly serviceable). Malazan was really, really badly plotted. It was obvious from the get-go. No exposition (and I maintain that you HAVE to give some exposition if you're writing in fantasy "secondary world" genre. It may be subtle and slow but it needs to be there). No identifiable main characters, and whose we've got were just all over the place characterization-wise. Nothing, simply nothing made me want to care what happens next.

 

For Tigana, I think the point was to prove that out definition of heroes and villains depend entirely on which characters we are led to sympathize with, and while her story wasn't my favourite, I still found it beautiful and interesting in it's own way.

 

Oh, I got the point all right. I just couldn't care about that guy because I hated him on a visceral level. So I couldn't make myself sympathize with his POV at all. It was rather infuriating because my emotional and intellectual understanding of the book diverged so very much.

 

I'm thinking maybe we could have a thread (in the main topic?) for recommendations while we wait for the next book? I love reading all of you guys' recs, but maybe we are going too off topic here?

 

Yeah, thought so as well. It's amazing nobody has stopped us yet :)

[Avaleigh]

We actually do have the ASOIAF book rec thread.

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/23118-asoiaf-book-club-for-the-night-is-dark-full-of-spoilers/#entry937121

 

I've been enjoying reading this discussion. I feel like I'm totally lost and out of my depth when it comes to discussing fantasy tropes or fantasy as a genre because I haven't read enough of it. I read a lot but mostly prefer non-fiction so as far as fantasy I've only read ASOIAF, Harry Potter, and a few of the Narnia books (and with this last I was probably eleven and twelve when I read those books.) 

 

Before the show debuted and I would post more frequently on IMDB there was an awesome poster who told me that I'd like the First Law triology. (This poster was prominent at Westeros too but also posted over at IMDB under the same name and was kind of a guide to a few new readers like myself who'd been turned on to the series after HBO announced that they'd be adapting the show. It's crazy that I got my first taste of interesting and thoughtful ASOIAF discussion over at IMDB of all freaking places but it's true.) I've been meaning to give these books a try ever since but haven't gotten around to it yet. 

 

Another series that I see referenced so much that I almost want to give it a try is the Wheel of Time series. I'll admit that I read the prologue of the first book a couple of years ago but didn't continue. It wasn't that I didn't like it. I can't really explain what happened. I totally get annoyed and roll my eyes when people ask something like "When does it get good?"  but that's sort of what I'd like to know. I get that it's a stupid and meaningless question in a way but I'd still like to know when the series "clicked" for people who really enjoy it. 

 

For me I knew I was really into ASOIAF somewhere around the death of Viserys. By the time the Blackwater rolled around I was focused on finishing the remaining books. When the release date for ADWD was released I made sure to request a personal day for the following day so that I could get in two solid days of reading/discussion. 

 

The Accursed Kings sounds the most intriguing to me of the three new series that I'm considering starting on. I guess my only hesitation here is that this feels like familiar territory based on other nonfiction books that I've read so in a way it doesn't feel like it'll be like jumping into a new world the way that it will be with the other two series.

 

I'd be curious for anyone's thoughts on what they'd recommend for a person who still considers themselves to be something of a newbie when it comes to fantasy. 

 

I hang my head in shame that I've never tried to read LotR. I can't really explain what happened here other than I feel like the HP/LotR period coinciding for a few years ended up making it so that I read so much about LotR from other posters to the point where I almost feel like I know enough about the differences between the movies and the source material that I don't feel like I need to know more. I guess the bottom line here is that I don't have any burning questions or feel like the books will be more enjoyable for me than the films based on various differences between them that I've read about. 

Edited June 21, 2015 by Avaleigh

[FurryFury]

LotR was one of the first books I've read in English, I was 14 at that time. I didn't really like it much - I think I've enjoyed Silmarillion way more, it had better/more interesting characters, at least. Still respect JRRT a lot, he's the father of my favorite genre and the creator of many, many tropes used in it.

As for recommendations... Hmm... I got into fantasy in my teens, so i read basically every fantasy book i could get my hands on. Yes, even R.A.Salvatore (*hangs head in shame*). Pretty sure I'd hate most of this stuff if I reread it now... Well, except Zelazny's Amber Chronicles (I think I could recommend it) and, well, early ASOIAF (I read AGOT when I was 18 or 19, my first "gotcha!" moment was the birth of dragons - yep, as late as that).

I do like Abercrombie's first four books (The First Law and Best Served Cold), but I think he kinda lost something after them - hope he'll get his mojo back soon, because I want more in that world. Lynch is OK, but kinda light reading. If you're into Pirates of the Carribean you'll probably enjoy The Lies of Locke Lamora. Patrick Rothfuss (The Kingkiller Chronicles) has great prose, but his chacterization isn't very strong (god Della got on my nerves so much). Westeros.org is in love with R. Scott Bakker but i don't think I've ever read a more disgustingly misogynystic book in my life (plus, gratuitous rape that could put Terry Goodkind to shame).

And then there is Terry Pratchett, who is... um, was (*sob*) awesome and whose books deserve attention. Discworld is mostly humor though, not your classic fantasy. Still recommend it (Small Gods is probably my favorite stand-alone book of his).

Not a huge fan of Neil Gaiman, but he has his readers, so you could try his books if you're into whimsical, somewhat fairy-tale-esque esthetic (but kinda dark). China Mieville is another popular author I'm not into, but he has rave reviews and stuff. And well, Jordan... I guess I've missed the time period when i should have read him because right now, reading about a generic male chosen one with a harem of beautiful women feels rather juvenile to me.

Edited June 21, 2015 by FurryFury

[Danny Franks]

Another series that I see referenced so much that I almost want to give it a try is the Wheel of Time series. I'll admit that I read the prologue of the first book a couple of years ago but didn't continue. It wasn't that I didn't like it. I can't really explain what happened. I totally get annoyed and roll my eyes when people ask something like "When does it get good?"  but that's sort of what I'd like to know. I get that it's a stupid and meaningless question in a way but I'd still like to know when the series "clicked" for people who really enjoy it. 

 

I would recommend the Wheel of Time, and ignore the many detractors who complain of it being 'traditional fantasy'. It's a great, epic story, perhaps even on a scale larger than Lord of the Rings. I accept FurryFury's point about certain aspects of it sounding juvenile, but I never thought they came across that way in the writing. What could be tasteless and diminishing to the women involved never seemed that way to me, and I thought it was an interesting way of looking at differences between cultures.

 

When I read it, I was hooked pretty quickly, I have to say. The prologue is out of left field, but becomes clearer as you read through the first book. And once the first couple of scene-setting, character introducing chapters are out of the way, I found it sped along. I've had lengthy discussions on the books with a friend who read them after I did, and he connected with them very strongly, for certain reasons.

 

The books delve into ideas of fate vs. free will, and attempting to force your own path, when everyone around you is telling you, 'this is what you must do'. There are elements of depression and dealing with it, of mental illness and the stigma of it. The idea of time decaying all things, including truth and knowledge. The skewing of darkness and light, and how people perceive it. There is certainly plenty on the ideas of gender, and the power system in the world split into male and female halves. But this is a world where women are in charge, in something as small as a village council, or something as large as a continent-spanning college of magic, available only to women. Lots of people dismissed this as sexist, because apparently women and men being portrayed differently is bad. Perhaps they should just be written exactly the same, as though that would be any better.

 

And over the top of those ideas, it's just a hell of a story. Even if it does sag a little (okay, more than a little, but I think part of that was down to Jordan's illness) towards the end. I found the characters to be well defined, if based on certain archetypes, and my sympathies extended to nearly all of them, at different times. I had my favourites, I had characters I didn't like as much. There were storylines that bored me, but on the whole, I'm extremely glad I read the series.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Danny Franks

[Hecate7]

Or you can just wait for Kit to start filming s6 in only a few months to confirm Jon isn't gone for good. They can't really hide it if he's still a major character.

 

Yes, they can. They may have already filmed all of his scenes.

[Miss Dee]

I read David Eddings' Belgariad, Mallorean, Elenium, and Tamuli series on a regular basis. Yes, the characters are thin (although I still love Belgarath and Polgara), the dialogue gets incredibly trite as the stories wear on, and the plotting starts cheating incredibly as each series wears on. I don't care. They were the first fantasy series I ever read, and I appreciated the world building (which was pretty great and not too riddled with inconsistencies considering they were written over decades) and the down-to-earth feel of the writing, which was perfect for a kid getting her feet wet in this genre. I'll always have a soft spot for it, and it'll always be the equivalent of comfort food for me.

[polyhymnia]

I am old enough that I remember having to wait between installments of the Mallorean and Elenium and I agree that Eddings is a great intro to serial fantasy literature.  Same soft spot, here.  I liked his view of rules as far as the magic of the series went, for example (and I'm thinking more the Belgarion/Mallorean).  But, Eddings and stupid Stephen King's Dark Tower series are why I didn't want to read ASOIAF in the first place.

[Miss Dee]

I really like the way sorcery worked in the B/M as well; it made a lot of sense and had a lot of internal limits that solved the "just hand wave it away" issue. And I loved how the "wise mentor" trope was upended with Belgarath - he was the wisest man in the world, but also an old fart and a lech and a hedonist and just a lot of fun. And the father-daughter partnership was really unique, I think. And I loved how they pretty much sidestepped the "hero must go on alone" trope altogether - it was true, but only metaphorically.

[Holmbo]

Since there's still nothing new to say about WoW I wanted to ask if anyone else has read The Goblin Emperor by Katherin Addison. It's quite new, came out last year. The title is misleading IMO. It makes it sound like it's some high fantasy with lots of magic and different fantasy creatures. But in reality it's actually just a very character driven story about a younger disgraced son who has lived his life in exile and becomes the emperor when his father and older brothers die unexpectedly. It is very light on magic and mostly just about politics and one persons struggle to take on a responsibility he's not at all prepared to handle.

 

The story is not at all similar to ASoIaF. But since I enjoyed it I thought I'd ask if anyone else here has read it and what you thought.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Holmbo

[Scarlett45]

I'm debating re-reads to hold me over until Winds.....I've been steadfast in not reading the sample chapters but I'm losing my resolve.

[Holmbo]

I've read some of them. In Sweden we have a saying, not much to hang in the Christmas tree, which sums up my thoughts on them.

[Which Tyler]

I'm debating re-reads to hold me over until Winds.....I've been steadfast in not reading the sample chapters but I'm losing my resolve.

I'm still waiting on a release date for Winds; then I intend to (try to) time a re-read to have me ready to go straight into it about a month after release (giving Mrs Tyler a chance to read it first without the re-read)

[Brn2bwild]

So should we make (informal, nonbinding) bets as to the exact date Winds of Winter will be released?

 

I will veer toward optimistic: February 23, 2016.

[Avaleigh]

I'll try to be optimistic too. March 29, 2016.

[benteen]

I hope so.  I think there's been some movement on this topic but my confidence for a pre-Season 6 release isn't high.

 

I read a headline that GRRM is fine with the show surpassing the books now. 

[Brn2bwild]

Though Martin must know that the show will conclude before the final book(s) are published, he might still be trying to at least get TWOW out before Season 6, to avoid as much spoiling as possible.

[nksarmi]

I'm hoping for January of 2016 for much the same reason.  Just because it won't be this year doesn't mean it won't go to editing this year.  I always thought giving us a clue to Jon's fate would have been in the show's best interests but since they came out with all this "Jon is dead, dead, deader than dead, deadzo" stuff - I can only assume that they decided to give GRRM time to do his big reveal first.

 

And honestly the show seems to be in this weird limbo of somewhere in book 4/5 and 6 territory all at once.  Like much of the North's story was cut but casting makes it look like at least some of it is either back in or is relevant to season/book 6.  They fast forwarded Stannis story while seemingly set Theon and Sansa on paths that have nothing to do with the books.  They set Loras on a different path and left Marg in a holding pattern.  But Kevin is behind in his fate and Jamie may or may not still get his proper story.  All of Dorne's story seems off so its hard to tell if they are in book 6 territory or just off the reservation altogether - same for Tyrion for that matter.

 

So it seems like season six of the show will simultaneously delve into book six plot while catching up some stories from books four and five and changing some stories around altogether.  The release of book six would at least help us make sense of what D&D are trying to do.

[Crossbow]

January is only 4 months away - if it were going to be out then, we would already know. He's still writing it, so no one knows how long that will take, then usually 9-12 months from editing to printing, although I would assume with a blockbuster like this they could speed that along.

[nksarmi]

January is only 4 months away - if it were going to be out then, we would already know. He's still writing it, so no one knows how long that will take, then usually 9-12 months from editing to printing, although I would assume with a blockbuster like this they could speed that along.

I don't think he get's edited that much.  I'm guessing they review it for errors and that's about it.  And while yes he is getting crabby about his answers, I do believe he said he had 1,000 pages done in January of this year and he was just working on polishing it.  I do think it's at least possible we could get it early next year and we would not yet know about it.

[benteen]

I doubt there's little editing aside from grammatical errors.  When he refuses his editor's suggestion that he stop constantly repeating the phrase "words are wind", you know there's very little actual editing going on.

 

9-12 months?  I always heard the Harry Potter book took five months to publish and I always thought that was the general length of time for a book to be published.  Though GRRM's book do tend to be double the size of an average HP book.

Edited August 29, 2015 by benteen

[SeanC]

GRRM delivered the manuscript for A Dance with Dragons at the very end of April 2011, and it was published in mid-July of the same year, so it will not take anything close to 9-12 months to get the book out when he's done with the manuscript.