Sam McCall Morgan: Fierce P.I. or Tsunami of Tears?

[aw86]

Totally agree that Sam has been written as a victim for the past few years, particularly since FV/RC took over.  Think about it.  There's has not been a single story where she has not been the victim of outside forces

1.  Franco "raped" her

2. Jason rejected her rape baby

3.  Danny was presumed dead and kidnapped by Todd and Heather

4.  As soon as Danny is found, Jason dies

5.  She is stalked by vampires

6.  Danny gets cancer

7.  Ava and Nina are the baddies in her relationship with Silas

8. She builds a friendship with Patrick not knowing he is lying to her about Jason.  

9.  Liz and Nik conspire to keep her husband away from her. 

10.  She finds out about Jason, and he is rude to her and doesn't believe  her when she says Liz was lying

 

Perpetual victimhood since 2012

[Oracle42]

I think the only saintly thing Sam has done is refrain from punching Liz, smothering Nik in his hospital bed and burning down Wydemere. Since I deeply disapprove of those bullshit choices, she gets no points from me

[dr. gailey]

I wish Sam would go back to doing bad shit. There are a couple of people she needs to take down.

 

1. Her bitchass cousin Nic. I remember that time he was lecturing her about stealing poor Lucky from Liz and her family. Yet here he is freely giving away Sam's husband.

 

2. She needs to smack the ever loving shit out of Liz just once. She has beat Carly's ass many a time for her bullshit. Liz should get a taste.

 

3. She needs to shoot Jason again. Even though he doesn't remember his life, he deserves it for being a jerk. Also when he gets his memories back, Sam needs to beat his ass for his treatment of her during her pregnancy. It got glossed over cause Steve Burton left. Now they need to hash out everything that happened.

 

I am all for character growth, but not enough to make a person completely boring.

[KerleyQ]

Current day Sam is boring as hell.  Does she even actually do anything now?  How she's not either trying to help Jason get his memories of their relationship back or saying "screw it if he doesn't remember loving me," while she either finds some hot new guy to distract her with or decides to rain hellfire on her cousin for screwin her over is beyond me.  She just sits there fending off her family's urge to gossip about her (currently) non-existent romance with Jason.  I swear, there used to be a time when I liked Sam, and even liked JaSam, but she's currently a non-entity in her own damn story.  They could replace her on set with one of her special happy meal toys and not miss much action. 

[Oracle42]

I don't think the "writers" (including RC) were at all interested in writing for this particular character. She been on a LOT but...not as "Sam"

[Sugarbaker]

I honestly loved Liz's catty "come back later" bit. Classic soap

 

Sam was not hired to do jack shit and is still up Jason's ass 24 x 7.

When we see the character she's either playing at being a Goth Nancy Drew detective

 

Nothing else seems to happen in Sam's monotonous life. Does she think or reflect about anything else at all besides Jason?

 

Yet, somehow Sam having a heart to heart with her college aged sister or helping to get her husband cleared from his potential murder charge isn’t classic soap, and she’s the pathetic one….

 

 

Oh those damn 30 second clips of Sam scaling the walls of Jason’s colon while probably streaming emo/goth music on her iPhone.

[Oracle42]

I do not understand why the rules that obviously applied to Patrick/Robin or the basic soap rules of a wife with an amnesiac husband aren't supposed to apply to Sam.

Why is she supposed to just ignore/walk away from her husband?

That's not how soaps work! Hell, that's not how soaps/movies/books/real life works.

The fact that Liz hasn't matured or changed in a decade is a problem but it shouldn't be Sam's problem

Edited January 20, 2016 by Oracle42

[HeatLifer]

I do not understand why the rules applied to Patrick/Robin or the basic soap rules of a wife with an amnesiac husband aren't supposed to apply to Sam.

Why is she supposed to just ignore/walk away from her husband?

The answer to this will always be...fans opinions differ based on what they like/dislike. Some want Sam to walk away because they either don't like Jason, don't like JaSam, like Liason, like Liz, etc. Just like some didn't give a crap that Patrick conveniently started acting like Robin was someone he dated for 2 days back in high school and Sam was the bestest because they either didn't like Robin, didn't like Scrubs, liked Sam, etc.

I just don't think there is some overarching rule that applies to everyone else but Sam and JaSam. It's all the same.

[LeftPhalange]

Liez continues to spend more time with Jason than Sam does so I'm not sure how Sam is the one who's up his ass. 

[Oracle42]

The answer to this will always be...fans opinions differ based on what they like/dislike. Some want Sam to walk away because they either don't like Jason, don't like JaSam, like Liason, like Liz, etc. Just like some didn't give a crap that Patrick conveniently started acting like Robin was someone he dated for 2 days back in high school and Sam was the bestest because they either didn't like Robin, didn't like Scrubs, liked Sam, etc.

 

 

I think I'm avoiding the right message boards because most of the posts I ever saw regarding Patrick/Sabrina or Patrick/Sam acknowledged that 10 year relationship >>>> underdeveloped relationship that lasted less than a year.

 

[HeatLifer]

I think I'm avoiding the right message boards because most of the posts I ever saw regarding Patrick/Sabrina or Patrick/Sam acknowledged that 10 year relationship >>>> underdeveloped relationship that lasted less than a year.

I'd hope the majority felt that way. But I'm just saying, there were people who didn't care about Robin in both Patrina and Samtrick. Just like there are people who don't care about Sam when it comes to Liason or Liz, you know?

[Oracle42]

I understand the sentiment in terms of lack of investment/outright dislike of the couple - but from a history /story line perspective? I don't think it makes sense for Sam to ignore or avoid Jason

[HeatLifer]

I understand the sentiment in terms of lack of investment/outright dislike of the couple - but from a history /story line perspective? I don't think it makes sense for Sam to ignore or avoid Jason

Oh, of course. I certainly agree with you. Just like it never made sense for Patrick to turn into a pod. But not every fan will even look at it from a storyline perspective or from a realistic perspective. Most fans are about likes/dislikes, first and foremost. And that's not a knock or anything, it's just an observation from what I've seen for years and years.

[Badsamaritan]

I've always liked BM as an actor but this amnesia story has damn near ruined him for me. Right now, I'm hanging on because I'm a Sam fan, and I want her to have what she wants. Which is Jason's bitch ass. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Stone Cold back (the further he stays away from Sonny's crap, the better) but I also think Sam wouldn't really want that part of him back either. She thought she lost him because his chickens came home to roost, so I don't believe she would be all rah rah, yay mob. She would ultimately support him no matter what he chose but I could see her voicing her concerns and trying to find out why he would want to go back to that life when he's a real boy now who feels things.

That's why I want them to focus on ELQ for real, and other legitimate businesses, I think Sam and Jason running a legitimate security business together could be good story for them. They could cross several stories if they had them doing different kinds of security, from guarding high profile people to cyber security. Spinelli could recommend a couple computer wizards. They could do some work for Crimson or the hospital or ELQ or all 3.

Frank, man. Fucking jackhole has no imagination whatsoever. Oh, and because it can't be said enough, get Liez the fuck away from Sam for good, damn.

[JaneDigby]

The show has been too shit for me to watch so I've been catching up on old school GH circa 2006-2007. Sam has never been my favorite character but I've never hated her. (Love Kelly Monaco, tho.) A poster I respected on TWOP once wrote that for her the Sam/Jason love story (original flavor) was about unconditional love. I'd like to see their story through that lens because it would be a ton more enjoyable. Jason is vile so it's all gonna be on Sam. Basically, for me, Sam's a character who should happen but due to craptastic writing never actually happens. I YouTubed that era of GH as my own little investigation of "where did it all go wrong?" 

 

Sam's downward spiral after being shot and finding out she can't have children AND Jason dumping her made sense and absolutely gave KeMo a meaty story to play. It also gave me another reason to hate on Alexis. I was appalled when she trashed Sam for still wanting to be with Jason (said Mrs Ric Lansing) and then played mind games with them after seeing them having sex. The line at the cabin was a long one and Ric must be able to go all night in order for a hundred people to independently witness their coupling. I was cheering Sam on through this crap.

 

And then it happened. The scenes with Jason where she begs, BEGS, his forgiveness for sleeping with Ric while she not with Jason. And Jason yells how awful it is and he can never forgive her because Ric is his ENEMY. Sam groveled some more, tried to point out that the Liz thing kinda hurt but you know, not as much as Ric hurt him and how she was just punishing herself (which, WTF? Ric is hot!) and blah blah blah. Then Jason judged her MORE and told her that he figured she knew that he only dumped her for her own good. Then Sam grovels some more and apologizes some more. Again, WTF? What does Sam owe Jason at this point? Jason says oh yeah, I know it was kinda my fault but it was actually totally your fault. More Sam groveling. More I know I cheated first. Again, Jason dumped Sam after putting her in a position to get shot and lose the ability to have a child. Why is Sam groveling? More importantly, is this the touching stuff she wants Jason to remember?

 

It's shit like that which makes it hard for me to invest in this character. I don't get it. And I know the fun is just starting for Sam. She gets to abet a kidnapping by silently standing by, then she gets to hire muggers, she hits the bottle and (worst of all) she is punished with some very bad hairstyles. I have to hang on until she hooks up with GV's Lucky so I can enjoy how gorgeous they looked together. 

[Oracle42]

That was terrible, terrible time for hair but NGL I enjoyed quite a bit of Drunk!Sam

[dubbel zout]

Drunk!Sam is the best Sam. We need her and her air quotes back.

[JaneDigby]

If I wear a t-shirt that says "Franco is Love" can I have this Sam on my screen, please?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhg6qwNslvY

 

and this one

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COjUos-9sjk

Edited January 22, 2016 by JaneDigby

[mybabyaidan]

Is Liz not allowed to defend herself? She's not doing what she's being accused of, so she doesn't have to just stand there and take it. Sam isn't right this time. Jason doesn't have to believe Liz, but Liz is allowed to defend herself.

 

It would also be nice, if the next time Jason throws Liz keeping Danny from him in her face, if she let him know that he's kept a child from his father too, and that so has perfect Saint Sam. Of course, that will never happen because the writers have erased Sam and Jason's history.

 

They haven't erased anything.  Jason doesn't remember and NOBODY has sat down and told him his history because he doesn't want to know.  And what will Liz say?  Hey, Sam watched Jake get kidnapped and hired thugs with guns to scare us.  But that was before you married her....so obviously you forgave her.  Just like he forgave Liz for the Danny DNA switch. 

 

Yeah, Sam clearly gets the "pass" edit on the way she acted when Jake was a baby.  I'm sure any day it'll be rewritten that she actually rescued Jake from his kidnappers.

 

How is something that happened years ago, and was atoned for considered getting a "pass"?  Sam did a shitty thing, but she took her lumps and was actually shown ONSCREEN to be remorseful for what she did.   Jason forgave her a long time ago....Liz did too.  So just because it's not brought up every second doesn't mean it gets a pass.  Jason will most likely get all his memories back, and when he does he will remember EVERY horrid thing Sam did AND he did.  That whole Jake kidnapping story line is WHY I feel bad for Liz fans right now.  I hate the witch, but I know how horrible it feels to watch your fav do horrible things onscreen that don't make any sense really.  But hopefully Liz will redeem herself some way down the line, like Sam did. 

[ulkis]

And then it happened. The scenes with Jason where she begs, BEGS, his forgiveness for sleeping with Ric while she not with Jason. And Jason yells how awful it is and he can never forgive her because Ric is his ENEMY. Sam groveled some more, tried to point out that the Liz thing kinda hurt but you know, not as much as Ric hurt him and how she was just punishing herself (which, WTF? Ric is hot!) and blah blah blah. Then Jason judged her MORE and told her that he figured she knew that he only dumped her for her own good. Then Sam grovels some more and apologizes some more. Again, WTF? What does Sam owe Jason at this point? Jason says oh yeah, I know it was kinda my fault but it was actually totally your fault. More Sam groveling. More I know I cheated first. Again, Jason dumped Sam after putting her in a position to get shot and lose the ability to have a child. Why is Sam groveling? More importantly, is this the touching stuff she wants Jason to remember?

 

It's the Jason factor. Jason is never allowed to be wrong.

 

I don't know where you came in on the Alexis stuff but it was months and months and MONTHS of Sam blathering how mean old Alexis drove grown man Jason from her and she hated her forever and blah blah blah and finally Alexis snapped and told her if she didn't want to improve herself, then fine, go be Jason's mindless drone, fine. It was harsh but like I said she snapped. I thought it was a human reaction and pretty realistic. It was a moment that hurt watching because it felt real, imo. Sometimes you say something nasty you don't mean to say to family, when you're feeling hurt and tired and exasperated. At least, admittedly, I have in the past.

[fishcakes]

I'm sure any day it'll be rewritten that she actually rescued Jake from his kidnappers.

 

Sam did rescue Jake when he was kidnapped by the Russian mob. She and Jason went to their hideout and Sam ran out of the building with Jake right before it exploded. Jake has been kidnapped a lot. I hope when they finally write him out of the show, it will be a Ransom of Red Chief story and Liz and Jason/Lucky/Whoever let the kidnappers keep him, never to be heard from again.

Edited January 22, 2016 by fishcakes

[JaneDigby]

I don't know where you came in on the Alexis stuff but it was months and months and MONTHS of Sam blathering how mean old Alexis drove grown man Jason from her and she hated her forever and blah blah blah and finally Alexis snapped and told her if she didn't want to improve herself, then fine, go be Jason's mindless drone, fine. It was harsh but like I said she snapped. I thought it was a human reaction and pretty realistic. It was a moment that hurt watching because it felt real, imo. Sometimes you say something nasty you don't mean to say to family, when you're feeling hurt and tired and exasperated. At least, admittedly, I have in the past.

 

(shakes fist at sky)

 

Damn you, Helena!

 

Ok, I'll cross that off my list of reasons to hate Alexis. I've got plenty of others so I'm good. 

[MissE]

Sam did rescue Jake when he was kidnapped by the Russian mob. She and Jason went to their hideout and Sam ran out of the building with Jake right before it exploded. Jake has been kidnapped a lot. I hope when they finally write him out of the show, it will be a Ransom of Red Chief story and Liz and Jason/Lucky/Whoever let the kidnappers keep him, never to be heard from again.

Sam's great whitewash. Its amazing to me that these writers have completely erased Sam's history in regards to Liz and Jake. Anytime Sam says that she would never hurt Jake, I wish Liz would punch her in the face. Sadly, no one will ever be allowed to call out the Saint of Port Charles. She's a perfect angel, while evil Liz and Jake are just being mean to her.

 

I will say though, the writers making her such a saint, has made her the most boring character on this show. Sam literally does nothing. She basically just sits around sucking on her necklace, waiting for Jason to do something.

 

I don't know where you came in on the Alexis stuff but it was months and months and MONTHS of Sam blathering how mean old Alexis drove grown man Jason from her and she hated her forever and blah blah blah and finally Alexis snapped and told her if she didn't want to improve herself, then fine, go be Jason's mindless drone, fine. It was harsh but like I said she snapped. I thought it was a human reaction and pretty realistic. It was a moment that hurt watching because it felt real, imo. Sometimes you say something nasty you don't mean to say to family, when you're feeling hurt and tired and exasperated. At least, admittedly, I have in the past.

Alexis going off on Sam like she did was beautiful, especially because that was the time period when Sam treated Alexis like shit. Everything Alexis said about Sam that day was true. She was nothing but Jason's play thing. She had no goals, no life of her own, she lived to serve Jason. She was pathetic.

Edited January 23, 2016 by MissE

[fishcakes]

Sam's great whitewash. Its amazing to me that these writers have completely erased Sam's history in regards to Liz and Jake. Anytime Sam says that she would never hurt Jake, I wish Liz would punch her in the face. Sadly, no one will ever be allowed to call out the Saint of Port Charles. She's a perfect angel, while evil Liz and Jake are just being mean to her.

 

It's not a whitewash. It's what happened.

Edited January 23, 2016 by fishcakes

[MissE]

It's not a whitewash. It's what happened.

What happened was a whitewash. Sam saved Jake, so her watching Jake get kidnapped, and gloating to Liz that he was dead, was all forgiven. 

[mybabyaidan]

AKA Character growth.  She did a terrible thing, she realized what a truly shitty thing she REALLY did, and she atoned for it.  It's a classic soap troupe.  It wasn't forgotten in 2 months.  She had to earn trust and respect back.   She always recognizes that she has done some really horrible things in her past, but she LEARNS from them and doesn't act like a perfect princess that the world is against. 

Alexis snapped and told her if she didn't want to improve herself, then fine, go be Jason's mindless drone, fine. It was harsh but like I said she snapped. I thought it was a human reaction and pretty realistic. It was a moment that hurt watching because it felt real, imo. Sometimes you say something nasty you don't mean to say to family, when you're feeling hurt and tired and exasperated. At least, admittedly, I have in the past.

 

Yeah, that moment was really really hard to watch.  Everything Alexis said was what Sam always hated and feared about herself, and here was her mother saying it to her.  She NEVER thought she was good enough, she grew up thinking she was trash.  So to have her newfound mother, one whom she already had a rocky relationship with to start say it to her....was like a knife straight in her heart.   Both NLG and KeMo did amazing work with those scenes.  I'll have to find the exact dialogue, but it was brutal.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Sam shouldn't have rescued Jake.

 

Because the demon spawn is not supposed to exist in the first place.

 

Sam's character has paid dearly since before his conception and continues to pay to this day. The little shit is doing nice imitation of his mother and the shitty things Sam did during the time of his birth his birth and beyond is held against her up till today. Just scroll up for an example.

 

I wish Sam had left him to die to prove without a doubt that she hates the demon child and truly wants him dead. 

[instant karma]

I will say though, the writers making her such a saint, has made her the most boring character on this show. Sam literally does nothing. She basically just sits around sucking on her necklace, waiting for Jason to do something.

Sam's always been one of the most boring character's on the show. A whispering, mumbling, no personality dimwit. I can never sit through her scenes without my eyes glazing over.

Edited January 23, 2016 by instant karma

[MissE]

Sam shouldn't have rescued Jake.

Because the demon spawn is not supposed to exist in the first place.

Sam's character has paid dearly since before his conception and continues to pay to this day. The little shit is doing nice imitation of his mother and the shitty things Sam did during the time of his birth his birth and beyond is held against her up till today. Just scroll up for an example.

I wish Sam had left him to die to prove without a doubt that she hates the demon child and truly wants him dead.

How is she paying for what she did to Jake? The writers have completely erased it from her history. No one is allowed to mention it now, even though there have been plenty of times for Liz to throw it in her face.

Even when Sam was telling Patrick about her history with Liz, and what Liz did to Danny, she conviently left out what she did to Jake. Sam isn't paying for shit. She's a saint.

[Jazzy24]

How is she paying for what she did to Jake? The writers have completely erased it from her history. No one is allowed to mention it now, even though there have been plenty of times for Liz to throw it in her face.

Even when Sam was telling Patrick about her history with Liz, and what Liz did to Danny, she conviently left out what she did to Jake. Sam isn't paying for shit. She's a saint.

She's not a saint us viewers haven't forgotten and some haven't forgiven Sam for what she did. Sam's past should defiantly be brought up and she should be yelled at.

I just think the writers don't know how to write her at all so she's stuck in the same writing pattern, which is boring and uncreative.

[LeftPhalange]

I vote for the thread to be renamed "Saint Sam: Destroyer of Liz's Happiness."

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

 

Well, I don't think anyone should be able to just walk into someone's house and declare they're going to go ahead and take a look around, especially when it's someone they hate and the feeling is mutual.  Liz fucked up big time.  But I do think she has the right to say who is allowed in her own house and who isn't.

As far as having her own place, meh.  She's lived off Jason's money, not that there's anything wrong with that.  As far as being a PI, meh again.  She never mentions any PI cases in passing, at least Liz wears scrubs on occasion.  It seems she's only a private investigator when she's working on a case that a real pi probably wouldn't take since it would be a conflict of interest.

 

Your post that I was replying to said that Sam had no job and no home of her own, both of which are completely false. It doesn't matter that she takes on cases with a conflict of interest, it's still her stated job on the show that she's a private investigator.

 

 

How is she paying for what she did to Jake? The writers have completely erased it from her history. No one is allowed to mention it now, even though there have been plenty of times for Liz to throw it in her face.

 

That isn't true at all. The writers have not erased it from her history. I'm fairly sure Liz threw that in her face when Sam accused Jakeson of accosting her at the police station when he released Faison. Liz marched over to the PH and they got into a big fight and Sam finally revealed that she knew about Liz knowing who Danny really was and lying to Jason about it before Jason "died" and Liz threw it back to her about what she did to demon Jake. So they both ended up calling a truce of sorts.

 

And no she's not paying for what she did to Jake now. Nor should she. She paid at the time and apologized and made amends over it. She doesn't need to still be punished over it.

 

 

It also gave me another reason to hate on Alexis. I was appalled when she trashed Sam for still wanting to be with Jason (said Mrs Ric Lansing) and then played mind games with them after seeing them having sex. The line at the cabin was a long one and Ric must be able to go all night in order for a hundred people to independently witness their coupling. I was cheering Sam on through this crap.

 

 

I don't know where you came in on the Alexis stuff but it was months and months and MONTHS of Sam blathering how mean old Alexis drove grown man Jason from her and she hated her forever and blah blah blah and finally Alexis snapped and told her if she didn't want to improve herself, then fine, go be Jason's mindless drone, fine. It was harsh but like I said she snapped. I thought it was a human reaction and pretty realistic. It was a moment that hurt watching because it felt real, imo. Sometimes you say something nasty you don't mean to say to family, when you're feeling hurt and tired and exasperated. At least, admittedly, I have in the past.

 

Ugh, I ended up watching those scenes last weekend. I was actually on YouTube looking for the train wreck scenes where Alexis gave birth to Molly and I surprisingly couldn't find anything from the train wreck other than JaSam's scenes and some of Carly's. Anyway, that led me down a rabbit hole of looking at different scenes and I saw the scenes leading up to Alexis finding Sam and Ric. I swear, if I didn't like Sam so much now those scenes would have brought my hatred back. I think this was the zenith of my Sam hate. Actually, I think the whole Alexis/Sam war years was the zenith of my hatred for Sam (starting with Alexis being accused of killing baby Lila to her being made to look bad after Sam/Ric slept together.)

 

IMO Sam was at her worst during this period. After Sam lost baby Lila every time she and Jason would run into Ric and Alexis Sam would scream at her for being a bitch. This included one time where Alexis accidentally spilled a drink on Sam at the Haunted Star which led to Jason actually threatening to MURDER her over it. (It's one of the reasons, even with BM's Jason, I get a little weirded out when Alexis is nice to Jason.) And of course, Sonny just stood by and shrugged his shoulders as one of the many mothers of his children's life was threatened. I think after that it was Sam screeching at Alexis and blaming her, during that virus storyline, for her brother's death because Alexis didn't commit suicide and let Sam's brother have the antidote. Then we find out Alexis is Sam's mother and Sam was still pretty horrible.

 

Which led to that scene where Alexis blew up at her. This was after Alexis came home to finding her daughter calling her a bitch in her own home. Sam didn't even have the decency to be ashamed of it. She continued to berate Alexis for "forcing" her grown-ass fiance into dumping her. Then when Alexis finally unloads on her (I don't remember the dialogue word for word but at one point Alexis tells her to get out because she doesn't want Sam poisoning her sisters' minds with her pathetic and degraded attitude) Sam sits there and watches Ric dress down his own wife and defend Sam. Then, instead of realizing her part in all of this, Sam whines about Alexis thinking she's trash. I'm sure it all came from a serious place of hurt for Sam, but it didn't excuse her calling Alexis a bitch in her house and then sexing up her husband in said house. And then of course Alexis is made to look bad after that because she doesn't admit what she saw right away and manipulates Sam and Ric afterwards.

 

I can't remember how long after that it took for me to warm to Sam again, but I think the whole Jiz/Jake crap helped that along. It's one of the many reasons I hated Jiz because so many pairings I liked (JaSam, Ric/Alexis, L&L2 with GV) were blown apart to prop Jason and that stupid pairing. And then the whole ridiculous Sam watching Jake be kidnapped completed her destruction. I think that's one of the reasons I will always root for Sam over Liz in the endless JaSam/Jiz wars.

 

I think it helped that, like mybabyaiden said, Sam has actually grown as a characters, whereas a lot of characters have not.

Edited January 23, 2016 by FilmTVGeek80

[ulkis]

Yeah, that moment was really really hard to watch.  Everything Alexis said was what Sam always hated and feared about herself, and here was her mother saying it to her.  She NEVER thought she was good enough, she grew up thinking she was trash.  So to have her newfound mother, one whom she already had a rocky relationship with to start say it to her....was like a knife straight in her heart.   Both NLG and KeMo did amazing work with those scenes.  I'll have to find the exact dialogue, but it was brutal.

 

Found the dialogue. August 10, 2006:

 

Sam: My mother is a controlling bitch. Oh, did you hear that or do I need to say it again, maybe a little bit louder this time?

 

Alexis: I know that you're angry, but you need to show some respect, Sam.

 

Sam: Oh. Res-- respect? I am supposed to respect a liar who's trying to control my life? You kept hammering away at Jason, working him, working his guilt until he finally shut me out. I am miserable, he is miserable, but you don't give a damn as long as you get your own way!

 

Alexis: It was Jason's choice.

 

Sam: Oh, his choice -- oh, no, no, no, no. Hold on, right. Jason chose to leave me, but that still wasn't enough for you. I am not allowed to talk to him! You will not let me talk to him! That is sick! You are sick! But you are not in control of my life! You don't tell me where I can go, what I can do, or who I can sleep with! Stay the hell out of it!

 

Alexis: Fine. You want to be with Jason, go ahead. Be my guest.

 

Sam: No, no, no, no. That's right because it's not your fault. Nothing is ever your fault, not -- not you. This was Jason's choice. I -- his choice.

 

Alexis: I'm done, Sam. I'm done fighting for you. I am done trying to save you, and the interesting thing is, is that you never asked me to, and it's evident that you don't want me to, so you win. I'm done. You want to spend the rest of your life with Jason, being his plaything, being his appendage, taking orders from him and getting shot at, that is entirely up to you. I'm not going to do anything to stop you because it is clear to me that you have absolutely no self-respect. You have no identity of your own, so being with Jason is really your only option, isn't it? If I were you, I wouldn't go to school. I wouldn't go to college. I wouldn't go to law school. Why don't you just let Jason take care of you for the rest of your life because that way you don't have to think? Wouldn't that be great? Get out! Get out of my house -- I don't want you poisoning your sisters' minds with your pathetic, degraded attitude!

 

Reading Sam's dialogue brings back my rage at her all over again as well, heh. That said, Alexis definitely hit below the belt.

 

Man, I miss the old dialogue writers. They were good, and I don't think I ever really appreciated it. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by ulkis

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

 

Reading Sam's dialogue brings back my rage at her all over again as well, heh. That said, Alexis definitely hit below the belt.

Man, I miss the old dialogue writers. They were good, and I don't think I ever really appreciated it.

 

Word about the old dialogue writers! They were amazing. And, as much as I hated Sam in that scene, KMo was really good, as was NLG. Like I said, I watched it last week, and you can see when Sam says that Alexis is sick, that is the point that Alexis loses it. I don't remember if the audience knew at that point, but Alexis had just found out (I'm not sure if it was that day or a few days before) that she had cancer. So Sam calling her sick was just a breaking point. She hit below the belt, but I still think A) a lot of it was true and B) Sam deserved it for calling her a bitch. If she didn't like her controlling mother she never should have moved into her home. 

[mybabyaidan]

IMO Sam was at her worst during this period. After Sam lost baby Lila every time she and Jason would run into Ric and Alexis Sam would scream at her for being a bitch. This included one time where Alexis accidentally spilled a drink on Sam at the Haunted Star which led to Jason actually threatening to MURDER her over it. (It's one of the reasons, even with BM's Jason, I get a little weirded out when Alexis is nice to Jason.) And of

Which led to that scene where Alexis blew up at her. This was after Alexis came home to finding her daughter calling her a bitch in her own home.

 

 

 See, the reason why I hated this bullshit sooooo much is that it came out of nowhere.  Yes, initially when Sam lost baby Lila she blamed Alexis.  But it was right after the baby died and she was still in the hospital grieving.  She eventually (I think only a few days later) came to realize that nothing Alexis did caused her baby to die.  She NEVER held that against her....until they needed to stir up some bullshit drama because they were going with the Sam/Alexis mother/daughter reveal.  When they decided to create drama, Sam brought it up a million times, even though we SAW ONSCREEN that she didn't blame Alexis anymore after it happened.  Ugh, it was so frustrating.

[fishcakes]

Wait, I thought all this had been erased from Sam's history. Come on, guys.

 

Actually, I think the whole Alexis/Sam war years was the zenith of my hatred for Sam (starting with Alexis being accused of killing baby Lila to her being made to look bad after Sam/Ric slept together.)

 

I couldn't stand Sam during that time. Every time she saw Alexis, she'd give her a hard stare and then slowly intone, "You killed my baby. You killed my brother." It felt like that went on for months. I was like, damn woman, get another interest.

 

I can't remember how long after that it took for me to warm to Sam again, but I think the whole Jiz/Jake crap helped that along. It's one of the many reasons I hated Jiz because so many pairings I liked (JaSam, Ric/Alexis, L&L2 with GV) were blown apart to prop Jason and that stupid pairing.

 

I think that's when I started to like Sam too, even though I did like Jason and Liz together back then. She was so hated by almost everyone -- hell, even Jason threatened to kill her -- but then she had a slow, believable redemption arc. She built her own life and career, she saw that Lucky really loved Liz and let him go with no drama, and gradually everyone forgave her. The day she showed up at Jason's wearing the French maid outfit was the day she won me over; I figured anyone who could make Steve Burton have a facial expression was his one, true love.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Found the dialogue. August 10, 2006:

 

Sam: My mother is a controlling bitch. Oh, did you hear that or do I need to say it again, maybe a little bit louder this time?

 

Alexis: I know that you're angry, but you need to show some respect, Sam.

 

Sam: Oh. Res-- respect? I am supposed to respect a liar who's trying to control my life? You kept hammering away at Jason, working him, working his guilt until he finally shut me out. I am miserable, he is miserable, but you don't give a damn as long as you get your own way!

 

Alexis: It was Jason's choice.

 

Sam: Oh, his choice -- oh, no, no, no, no. Hold on, right. Jason chose to leave me, but that still wasn't enough for you. I am not allowed to talk to him! You will not let me talk to him! That is sick! You are sick! But you are not in control of my life! You don't tell me where I can go, what I can do, or who I can sleep with! Stay the hell out of it!

 

Alexis: Fine. You want to be with Jason, go ahead. Be my guest.

 

Sam: No, no, no, no. That's right because it's not your fault. Nothing is ever your fault, not -- not you. This was Jason's choice. I -- his choice.

 

Alexis: I'm done, Sam. I'm done fighting for you. I am done trying to save you, and the interesting thing is, is that you never asked me to, and it's evident that you don't want me to, so you win. I'm done. You want to spend the rest of your life with Jason, being his plaything, being his appendage, taking orders from him and getting shot at, that is entirely up to you. I'm not going to do anything to stop you because it is clear to me that you have absolutely no self-respect. You have no identity of your own, so being with Jason is really your only option, isn't it? If I were you, I wouldn't go to school. I wouldn't go to college. I wouldn't go to law school. Why don't you just let Jason take care of you for the rest of your life because that way you don't have to think? Wouldn't that be great? Get out! Get out of my house -- I don't want you poisoning your sisters' minds with your pathetic, degraded attitude!

 

Reading Sam's dialogue brings back my rage at her all over again as well, heh. That said, Alexis definitely hit below the belt.

 

Man, I miss the old dialogue writers. They were good, and I don't think I ever really appreciated it. 

 

I loved that dialogue from Alexis. It was a long time coming.

 

Don't get me wrong, I did think Alexis tried too insert herself into Sam's life too fast, too hard when they found out they are related. They shared a pretty turbulent not so distant past so Alexis  shouldn't have tried to control Sam's life as much as she did. 

 

That said, Sam's reaction was over the top ridiculous. I didn't hate her but I disliked her very much during that time. Not because of her being a bitch to Alexis, it was because she was doing it because of Jason. Who had broken up with her on her sick bed. Jason brings out the worst in her. Always has.

[WendyCR72]

I have no love for Sam (or Liz, just putting that out there to stop that train of thought!). And I used to LOVE Alexis. But her words to Sam are quite ironic now given Alexis is now willing to gush all over Julian - a mobster. Sure, he's out of that for now, but considering this show...is he REALLY?

 

I wish Sam would remind her mother of that irony, whether Julian helped spawn her or not.

 

And this comes from a soul that also loathes JaSam and Jason, so I REALLY need a shower now.  :-(

[Oracle42]

 

Man, I miss the old dialogue writers. They were good, and I don't think I ever really appreciated it. 

 

I was thinking the exact same thing when I was reading the old Lulu/Dante dialogue that was posted in the episode thread. They were so damn good and now we have...whoever penned the lines about the real housewives of Beecher's Corners. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

See, the reason why I hated this bullshit sooooo much is that it came out of nowhere.  Yes, initially when Sam lost baby Lila she blamed Alexis.  But it was right after the baby died and she was still in the hospital grieving.  She eventually (I think only a few days later) came to realize that nothing Alexis did caused her baby to die.  She NEVER held that against her....until they needed to stir up some bullshit drama because they were going with the Sam/Alexis mother/daughter reveal.  When they decided to create drama, Sam brought it up a million times, even though we SAW ONSCREEN that she didn't blame Alexis anymore after it happened.  Ugh, it was so frustrating.

 

You're right. I think I was confusing the time after baby Lila died with the time her brother Danny did. That was when she started acting ridiculously and when Jason threatened to kill Alexis. Because I remember Sam and Alexis were basically okay for awhile. They even had a really sweet scene after the train wreck when they were in the hospital chapel and I think Sam held baby Molly. But after that they started the stupid story with Manny and his brain tumor and Alexis being forced to represent him. Everyone, including Sam and Carly, had some problem grasping the concept of court-appointed and were constantly berating Alexis over it. After that it was the virus and Danny's death and the nightmare began.  

 

 

 

I have no love for Sam (or Liz, just putting that out there to stop that train of thought!). And I used to LOVE Alexis. But her words to Sam are quite ironic now given Alexis is now willing to gush all over Julian - a mobster. Sure, he's out of that for now, but considering this show...is he REALLY?

I wish Sam would remind her mother of that irony, whether Julian helped spawn her or not.

 

Why would she? Sam and Alexis don't have any problems right now. While Julian and Alexis have expressed concerns over Sam getting back with Jason (and hypocritical or not, I don't know any sane parents who would be cool with their kid being with a hitman) neither have tried to stop her from doing it. So their would really be no reason to throw that back in Alexis's face. Plus, I don't think Julian and Alexis's relationship now is really comparable to Jason and Sam's back then and the kind of person Sam was.

 

In fact it would be kind of cool, if Jason remained out of the mob as well as Julian, and both mother and daughter ended up with guys willing to stay out of the mob.

Edited January 23, 2016 by FilmTVGeek80

[ulkis]

I was thinking the exact same thing when I was reading the old Lulu/Dante dialogue that was posted in the episode thread. They were so damn good and now we have...whoever penned the lines about the real housewives of Beecher's Corners. 

 

gonna reply in the history thread.

[Oracle42]

As far as having her own place, meh.  She's lived off Jason's money, not that there's anything wrong with that.  As far as being a PI, meh again.  She never mentions any PI cases in passing, at least Liz wears scrubs on occasion.  It seems she's only a private investigator when she's working on a case that a real pi probably wouldn't take since it would be a conflict of interest.

 

Didn't Jason pay for Liz's house?* I feel like Liz/Lucky were living in an apartment during the SOS.  And really, if Jason/Liz had gotten married, she might still work but she probably wouldn't work double shifts. Sam seems to take cases that she wants to take because she doesn't need to work for a paycheck but she does have a license and investigative work is her job

 

 

*which does not excuse going to the house without asking

Edited January 23, 2016 by Oracle42

[UYI]

 

 

Yeah, that moment was really really hard to watch.  Everything Alexis said was what Sam always hated and feared about herself, and here was her mother saying it to her.  She NEVER thought she was good enough, she grew up thinking she was trash.  So to have her newfound mother, one whom she already had a rocky relationship with to start say it to her....was like a knife straight in her heart.   Both NLG and KeMo did amazing work with those scenes.  I'll have to find the exact dialogue, but it was brutal.

 

Is this it?

 

 

ETA: NVM, I saw the transcript above from here.

 

There's a longer version than that clip, but it includes her and Ric sleeping together so I didn't use it, LOL.

Edited January 23, 2016 by UYI

[JaneDigby]

This included one time where Alexis accidentally spilled a drink on Sam at the Haunted Star which led to Jason actually threatening to MURDER her over it. (It's one of the reasons, even with BM's Jason, I get a little weirded out when Alexis is nice to Jason.) And of course, Sonny just stood by and shrugged his shoulders as one of the many mothers of his children's life was threatened. I think after that it was Sam screeching at Alexis and blaming her, during that virus storyline, for her brother's death because Alexis didn't commit suicide and let Sam's brother have the antidote. Then we find out Alexis is Sam's mother and Sam was still pretty horrible.

 

 

Now stop that or I'll have to start liking Jason. :-)

[JaneDigby]

Sticking to the topic of Sam, I have to hand it to KeMo for keeping Sam interesting (if not fully rootable) turning the avalanche of crap inflicted on her character. Thanks, ulkis, for the Alexis/Sam dialogue. Alexis (deep breath) had a point there. If only she would, you know, listen to that point herself I might resurrect my 1997 feelings for her. I don't hate Ric or Sam for getting drunk and doing the nasty. Reprehensible, sure. A little revenge on Alexis maybe, sure. But they weren't expecting her to show up at the house and peek in the windows so I don't see this as being all about hurting Alexis. Big mistake, for sure and Alexis was owed a grovelling apology by both. Why the writers had her go all sneaky and manipulative is beyond me. She was dealing with cancer at the time, so ... nope. 

 

The idea of Sam on a downward spiral because the man who loved her faults and all dumped her to "save her" is good soap. The fact that the guy is question is a hit man? Not so much. Jason DID put his loyalty to Sonny before his love for Sam. Dolt. I don't know how anyone managed to watch all those months of Sam begging Jason to take her back. But if I needed a reason to hate Jason, and you know I don't, then any implication on his part that Sam owed him anything after he dumped her would send me into a rage blackout. 

 

The idea of Jason making a baby with someone else during this time when Sam is heartbroken over losing Jason and over her inability to have a child would certainly drive her into further downward spiral. So I can actually see her POV in standing by while Jake was kidnapped. It was wrong. Heinous. Reprehensible. All that. But her crazed grief put her on par with the nutso who kidnapped Jake. Again, a little grief counselling for Sam would have been a nice outcome here. I'll sit here at my own Sam & Lucky table and sip my burgundy. They were gorgeous together and they could have worked. I'm just at the point where Sam tells Jason "we're over." This being GH she did so in a low cut top. 

 

(I did partake of the episode from 2011 where Sam smacks the "you'll don't know how it feels to lose a child" out of Carly's mouth. Sam needs to do that more. Daily would be good.) 

Edited January 23, 2016 by JaneDigby

[dubbel zout]

I think Jason did buy the house for Liz and the boys, and he also set up trust funds for everyone. She didn't ask for any of it—he presented it all to her as fait accompli.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Jake's conception didn't come while Jason and Sam where broken up. They got back together after the bed hopping between the FOUR couples. Liz/Jason, Sam/Ric, and Maxie/Lucky.

 

I know Liz and Jason had sex whilst Jasam were broken up but I don't count that as the conception time because Liz sat on the truth, lied to everyone about the paternity of the baby until the Metro Court crises. That was when it started to have effect on Jasam who had picked up with pieces and making plans to start a family.

 

Tears as she's confronted on yet another life changing lies she told for MONTHS.

 

[JaneDigby]

Sam knew when the baby was conceived - when she (Sam) had hit rock bottom and had sex with Ric. She knew that Jason knew and kept it from her. Those two factors together, imho, sent Sam into another spiral. YMMV.

[Jazzy24]

I didn't mind Sam sleeping with Ric cause I thought it was soapy and great things could have came from that.

And though it was totally in character for Sam to sleep with Ric the only reason it happened was to give Jason a reason to sleep with Liz and carry on about Sam sleeping with his enemy.

Alexis was totally ignored in the story and it all became about Jason that's when I hated the story.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Jazzy24

[dubbel zout]

I hated Sam sleeping with Ric because for both of them it was to punish Alexis. For Sam, because of Alexis's opposition to Jason; for Ric, because Alexis lied about being sick. Ugh. It was soapy, undeniably, but the reasons behind it could have been a lot stronger. And yes, it was also so that Jason and Liz could sleep together without tainting Saint Jason. UGH.

Edited January 23, 2016 by dubbel zout