Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Starfish35]

Do we even have any solid indication that it's likely to be a mid-season series other than the Deadline article speculation?

[Morrigan2575]

Do we even have any solid indication that it's likely to be a mid-season series other than the Deadline article speculation?

The indication is that it's either mid-season or summer. There's been no indication that it will premiere in the Fall. The CW already has a crop of pilots they ordered that can serve as potential new fall shows.

There's also the very real possibility that this doesn't happen at all. I think it's got a really good shot at being picked up but there are no guarantees.

Has there been actual indication of this or just that it is likely to be a mid-series replacement? Cause a midseason show can still be a full 22-23 episodes, they just don't have to mess with the hiatus problem as much.

Mid Season replacement shows (in their first season) generally aren't more than 13 episodes. Reason being the network has no idea how it will be received and won't have the opportunity to judge in time to order more episodes. Edited April 3, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[nksarmi]

I swear I read somewhere that the show is going "straight to series" meaning that they aren't going to film a pilot and "sell" it, but there are all sorts of "if it gets picked up" comments floating around as well.  At any rate, I expect it will be 13 episodes and then the CW will decide if it's going to get more 13 episode runs or graduate into a full series. I actually think it could end up being really popular if they decided to switch Arrow and Flash to the formula some shows follow of basically having two "half" seasons that run consecutively with a larger break in between AND they aired this new spin-off during the big Arrow/Flash break.

 

I mean Once breaks from like December to April I think.  A 13-episode show could easily run starting in January and be wrapped by March.  I think that would work in the spin-off's favor instead of being a third Arrow-verse show fans watch every week.  I mean, I would probably do it, but not all fans will lol.

[Sakura12]

When I talked to Caity Lotz she said she was pretty sure it will be picked up to series. 

 

I also think they are going to do a 8-10 episode series, in-between the mid season break like they did with Agent Carter. That might actually help it. There won't be much time for filler episodes. 

[Morrigan2575]

I swear I read somewhere that the show is going "straight to series" meaning that they aren't going to film a pilot and "sell" it, but there are all sorts of "if it gets picked up" comments floating around as well.

correct, there is no pilot, if it gets picked up it'll be based on the script, season outline, how the audience/media react to Ray, how the Ray centric episodes (319 and 118) do in ratings as well as what The CW pilot season has to offer.

[MarkHB]

IA with this^. In the Golden Age and even in the 90s, there were titles that were double acts or straight anthologies of heroes. Action Comics and Adventure Comics are two off the top of my head.  Sensation Comics and Whiz Comics were DC hero anthology comics too. I the last iteration I saw, the stories were in six  or longer installments.  The starring heroes were rotated. If the Phantom Lady story was wrapped up The Secret Six story started up. When Black Canary was done, Mad Dog got underway.

 

I remember the days when books like Detective and Action had backup features; that's where Green Arrow got most of his pages before GL-GA happened.  But to be pedantic, Whiz Comics was never a DC title; that was Fawcett's book until DC sued Captain Marvel into oblivion.  But it was indeed an anthology as you stated.

 

I wonder if the real "reason behind the reason" for not having Ronnie be a regular in the spinoff (assuming he isn't) is that Firestorm is probably freaking expensive to realize.

 

Personally, I like Ray because I really love The Atom, and I'm hoping that the nanotech shrinking the blood clot this week is a sign of things to come....

[Actionmage]

But to be pedantic, Whiz Comics was never a DC title; that was Fawcett's book until DC sued Captain Marvel into oblivion.

 

Thanks for the correction, Mark! I had my DC goggles on and forgot like the old lady the CW figures I am. ;p

 

I also think they are going to do a 8-10 episode series, in-between the mid season break like they did with Agent Carter.

 

If the show's title is a banner-y one, like Adventure! or DC Presents, then get two teams of writers so they can do the mid-season break and Summer. Different casts, different writers with a co-ordinator to make sure info is consistent in-universe.  Say the Suicide Squad kills a villainous leader ( like Col Harvati in the Justice League comics of the 80s), background Channel 52 news reports or throwaway lines can be smartly deployed.

 

DC gets it's dedicated launchpad, some actors have a more steady paycheck, and if the writing is consistent and good, the audience is happy and eager to see more. A win-win-win.

[Proteus]

When I talked to Caity Lotz she said she was pretty sure it will be picked up to series. 

 

I also think they are going to do a 8-10 episode series, in-between the mid season break like they did with Agent Carter. That might actually help it. There won't be much time for filler episodes.

I can't see that happening. They want the show to have crossovers with the other two. So I think all three will run consecutively.

[FurryFury]

Re: Firestorm, these spoilers actually make me think of a different scenario, 

specifically, an AU or something - Caitlyn and Ronnie aren't in the right place to marry at this time, but if this was, say, Barry time traveling and preventing his death (while they were engaged), it would be different. And everything would be reset at the end anyway. My hope is that Ronnie just dies and Barry's efforts to save him don't work.

 

Of course, I'm biased because I hate Robbie Amell's acting and the character is so blah.

 

I hope Ray's unpopularity won't hurt the spin-offs chances because Sara totally deserves a vehicle of her own. I'd prefer something a bit different, but I'll take what I can get. I've clamoring for this since s2.

Edited April 4, 2015 by FurryFury

[Morena]

Re: Firestorm, these spoilers actually make me think of a different scenario, 

specifically, an AU or something - Caitlyn and Ronnie aren't in the right place to marry at this time, but if this was, say, Barry time traveling and preventing his death (while they were engaged), it would be different. And everything would be reset at the end anyway. My hope is that Ronnie just dies and Barry's efforts to save him don't work.

 

Of course, I'm biased because I hate Robbie Amell's acting and the character is so blah.

 

I hope Ray's unpopularity won't hurt the spin-offs chances because Sara totally deserves a vehicle of her own. I'd prefer something a bit different, but I'll take what I can get. I've clamoring for this since s2.

I think the Oliver and Ray  interaction in the next episode can help. sounds like fun

[FurryFury]

I don't watch Arrow, but I hope they'll salvage Ray solely for the spin-off and more Sara. Of course, if CL doesn't play Sara, the point is moot, but I honestly don't believe that.

[BkWurm1]

I can't see that happening. They want the show to have crossovers with the other two. So I think all three will run consecutively.

You are probably right but I could see them doing crossovers later to keep interest in the show high and have just Arrow and Flash peeps pop up as guest stars during their hiatus. 

[Sakura12]

That's what I figured, Arrow and Flash can just show up on the spin off when their shows are on a break. 

[CabotCove]

The issue with Arrow is, it's called Arrow it should be about him not a bunch of other super heroes. The show stopped focusing on their title character.

 

Even  a one man/woman title, can have an ensemble focus, most usually do Buffy?, Smallville?  Angel?, Teen Wolf? The Flash?...most of these shows tend to operate with a team  of other "crimefighters" than the lead. From what I observe two cast led shows are the ones that tend to be exclusive more X Files, Supernatural, Bones, Sleep Hollow, Castle etc.

 

I honestly and personally dont see the cast size as Arrow's problem. Around 6 regular cast members doesnt sound much to me.  Why do others seem to have the talent to pull it off (with even more characters) and they cant, maybe the missing keyword is talent.

 

I think if they really want him to not tarnish the appeal of the spin-off they need to get him off of Arrow STAT.

 

They are at least only 5 episodes  left , and they have likely shot them all by now, how do you reckon the above can be accomplished?

 

However, I second Tahmoh Penikett, Alison Mack and I'd substitute Sam Witwer for Russell Tovey.

 

Yes, no new CW show is complete without Penikett, blessing it with his presence, make it happen.

The last I heard Witwer was being considered for Crow movie reboot. Mack got a new gig or something recently.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Conell

[Proteus]

You are probably right but I could see them doing crossovers later to keep interest in the show high and have just Arrow and Flash peeps pop up as guest stars during their hiatus.

I just do not think this show is going to be served as just something that airs when Arrow and Flash aren't new.

[KirkB]

I'm a little surprised this even got green lit. I half expected some big wig in the CW to freak about them becoming known or thought of as the superhero/comic book network. I mean between this, Arrow, Flash and i Zombie, that's a fair amount of genre specific programming for a non genre channel.

[nksarmi]

I just do not think this show is going to be served as just something that airs when Arrow and Flash aren't new.

It would probably boost its success if it was.  If it aired when people were hungry for Arrow and Flash, then it could pull fans from both shows.  And Arrow and Flash could probably benefit from the two "half season" formulas that other shows are adopting.  I can't believe how many people I saw freaking out on Facebook every time one of the two shows had a break.  The half season strategy seems to let people know when to watch better and provide them with solid runs and no interruptions.  If they made that changed and aired the new show in between the breaks, I think it would be a real ratings winner.  Plus, it allows them to create comic books and action figures and all sorts of merchandise for a show without having to pay actors for a full season - and then they can pour more into special effects (which I think this show will need).

 

I'm not saying it will run this way, but I think networks will be adopting this formula more and more in the future.  With a show like Game of Thrones that has huge financial and critical success with less episodes, and major networks airing shorter shows like Under the Dome (CBS) and Agent Carter (ABS) the formula is already there and its been proven successful.  So I wouldn't be surprised if this spin-off ended up being a 13-episode show that primarily aired when Arrow/Flash were on break and was used to flesh out characters that might still appear on the parent shows from time to time.

Edited April 5, 2015 by nksarmi

[kismet]

If the cw is gonna commit to 3 shows with crcrossovers than they also need to commit to not reordering the airdates of the shows that them mess up the timeline. They cant have it both ways it becomes detrimental to the shows & characters. I can barely keep straight in my head what the timeline is for the upcoming crossover. Its a great concept but the cw needs to get their scheduling in order.

[Starfish35]

about Stephen appearing in the Arrow/The Flash spin-off. Stephen said he will appear in all three shows. “We will be sprinkling characters in, I know there is a plan for one character from Arrow who isn’t one of the main characters of the spin-off will hover between all three shows and it will be their job. You will see a lot of interconnectivity next year.”

http://theworldgoespop.com/2015/04/04/fan-expo-vancouver-2015-stephen-amell-teases-arrow-season-3-and-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/

What do you think this means?

[Morrigan2575]

Felicity.

[Chaser]

It sounds like Felicity and I hate that so much.

 

Can't it be Quentin? Or Laurel? Please?

[jaytee1812]

I think it would be good for Felicity's character. On Arrow she's so tied to Oliver, it often feels like she's only about a man. Having her interact with others in the other shows would show her in a different light. 

[apinknightmare]

I think it would be good for Felicity's character. On Arrow she's so tied to Oliver, it often feels like she's only about a man. Having her interact with others in the other shows would show her in a different light. 

 

All of her appearances on The Flash have been in the love interest role as well. Her first visit she was forlorn over Oliver and then kissed Barry. Her second visit, she was  the "girl" part of "guys like us can't get the girl," and her next visit is going to be in the capacity of Ray's girlfriend. 

 

I'm hoping it's someone like Lyla or another minor character that might be working for some type of agency that ties all three shows together (with missions or something). I'd prefer it if Felicity just stuck to Arrow. 

[Morrigan2575]

Oh, Lyla is a good idea.

Sadly, I think it's Felicity, I'm pretty sure that's why they set Felicity up with Ray on Arrow. Not talking in the romantic sense but having Felicity be so involved with the suit and mission.

[apinknightmare]

Oh, Lyla is a good idea.

Sadly, I think it's Felicity, I'm pretty sure that's why they set Felicity up with Ray on Arrow. Not talking in the romantic sense but having Felicity be so involved with the suit and mission.

 

Could be. Could be that they incorrectly assumed that the audience would care about and be interested in anything that Felicity cares about and is interested in. Despite what they're saying, the EPs surely realize now that's not true? 

 

I'm just going to stay in my little hopeful bubble of denial until someone from the show comes along and puts a pin in it. I really, really don't want Felicity to be a floater. Give that job to a minor cast member who doesn't have enough to do - like Quentin or Lyla. 

[quarks]

The other possibility is Matthew Shrieve - a military character who knows about/is involved with ARGUS, could presumably be aware of/have an interest in Flash, and will want to know about the winged girl flying around and why someone in a robot suit with proprietary military technology is helping her out.

[Sakura12]

It's probably Felicity, she's the only one connected to the characters on the other shows. Felicity and Barry are friends, if it's Sara, then Sara and Felicity are friends and Felicity dated Ray and may stay friends with him. No one else has those connections, even Oliver. Oliver and Barry are not really friends and he's definitely not friends with Ray. That just leaves him being friends with Sara. He'll be crossing over because of fellow heroes. Quentin and Laurel also only have the Sara connection. Felicity is the only logical choice to connect all three shows. Plus the added bonus of being super popular among the fandom. 

[dtissagirl]

I took "one character from Arrow who isn’t one of the main characters" = someone who isn't a regular.

 

Lyla makes sense now that she's not tied to ARGUS anymore, but she has the expertise to manage a ragtag superhero team.

 

Edit: nevermind, apparently I can't read in the mornings.

Edited April 5, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Sakura12]

I took "one character from Arrow who isn’t one of the main characters" = someone who isn't a regular.

 

"I know there is a plan for one character from Arrow who isn’t one of the main characters of the spin-off"

 

It says main character of the spin off. Not main character on Arrow. That means it's not Sara or Ray, they are characters from Arrow that are main characters on the spin off. 

 

He did word it really strange, probably to be vague. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by Sakura12

[apinknightmare]

This person doesn't have to have a pre-existing connection to all of these characters in order to connect the shows. They just have to be given a reason to float between them, like a mission or a mystery.

I agree that the most likely candidate is Felicity, I'm just really hoping it's not the case, because I'm not going to watch the spinoff, even if she is on it, and I only watch The Flash intermittently, so. No thanks.

[Starfish35]

I really really hate the idea that it could be Felicity, but that was my first thought too. :(

I like that it could be Lyla or General Shrieve.

I could see it being Laurel except that I fail to see why she would be on The Flash.

[looptab]

She is mere seconds from becoming BFFs with Cisco. :/

Edited April 5, 2015 by looptab

[dtissagirl]

Haha, I completely misread that.

 

Diggle would make as much sense as Felicity. He's got much of the same expertise Lyla does, and he's also currently unemployed.

 

I'm still not sure I'm gonna watch the spinoff, I guess it's gonna depend on who Caity Lotz is really playing. Two women in a sea of dudes is not making it very appealing to me, tbh. But I didn't really think they were ever gonna skip on the chance of milking the crossovers as much as possible.

[Sakura12]

I'd love to see Diggle get more to do, although I don't know what he'd be doing on the Flash. I could see him visiting Sara, he did name his first born after her because apparently they became BFF's on offscreenville. I'd vote for giving Dig a main job. But still think it's going to be Felicity to bring in viewers.  

[apinknightmare]

Diggle would make as much sense as Felicity. He's got much of the same expertise Lyla does, and he's also currently unemployed.

 

Good point. Especially since Felicity still has a function on the team that no one else can fill (yet, ugh). Since Diggle's main function anymore seems to be getaway driver/occasional sniper, I wouldn't mind if he traveled a bit. 

[dtissagirl]

Yeah. Felicity's function on Arrow is necessary; in the spinoff they'll have Palmer, Stein and Cold at ~genius level for tech/science stuff. The one thing about Felicity is what @Sakura12 mentioned: she's their go-to audience bait.

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah but, they've already stated Felicity is the connective tissue between Arrow/Flash and then set her up as part of the Ray/ATOM story. She was setup as a reason he wants to protect the city, someone who helped him get his suit working and

in 118, she will be the connection between ATOM/Team Flash

.

Felicity seems to be the most straight forward option.

i'm not sure how I feel. One one hand it makes her very important to the DCTV universe, it also means more exposure and money for EBR (which I'm sure she'll appreciate), and she might even be able to give John Munch a run for his money (character appearing on multiple shows).

On the down side it means the producers might continue to do most of Felicity's development on Flash/Spin-off. If I was a dedicated Arrow viewer that would probably piss me off but, i'm only watching episodes that feature OG Team Arrow, Felicity or Diggle so, I don't think it would bug me too much to watch spinoff if/when Felicity guest stars.

[apinknightmare]

On the down side it means the producers might continue to do most of Felicity's development on Flash/Spin-off. If I was a dedicated Arrow viewer that would probably piss me off but, i'm only watching episodes that feature OG Team Arrow, Felicity or Diggle so, I don't think it would bug me too much to watch spinoff if/when Felicity guest stars.

 

If this is ends up being Felicity, I wonder how much she'd even be on Arrow? SA said the person's job would be to float between shows, i.e., not be a regular on Arrow, but be a guest star on all the shows to connect them to one another. If that's the case, no thank you. Kiss Felicity ever getting her own storyline goodbye (not that I was all that hopeful for it anyway), since she'd probably float to assist other people with theirs. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

If this is ends up being Felicity, I wonder how much she'd even be on Arrow? SA said the person's job would be to float between shows, i.e., not be a regular on Arrow, but be a guest star on all the shows to connect them to one another. If that's the case, no thank you. Kiss Felicity ever getting her own storyline goodbye (not that I was all that hopeful for it anyway), since she'd probably float to assist other people with theirs. 

 

Damn, that's a good point. If it's Felicity or Diggle, then they're screwed in terms of getting their own story arcs. I mean, S3 has already basically given them both scraps already.

 

Please let it be Lyla. That would actually give her MORE to do.

[Morrigan2575]

I would prefer that it's Lyla especially if it means losing Felicity as a main cast member on Arrow. However, i'm not sure that is what SA meant. I interpreted the job comment being about the character not the actor. The job would be Felicity or Lyla's job, pretty much running this new "justice league" setup. Someone who basically organizes and runs missions for all of the teams, the Maria Hill (MCU version).

[Chaser]

They would probably consider that her storyline.

 

I agree with Morrigan2575 that everything is in place for Felicity to take that role, but the indication that that is going to be the job of the character makes me think its someone else. I don't know, its such weird wording. 

[KirkB]

I know there is a plan for one character from Arrow who isn’t one of the main characters of the spin-off will hover between all three shows and it will be their job.

 

 

 

It could be Waller or Lyla, if ARGUS is going to play a part in the spinoff. Neither of them has a presence on the Flash but they could if ARGUS if going to have a bigger presence. Or maybe Nyssa, since she could be training Laurel on Arrow, working with Sara (if it is Sara) on the spinoff, and...I don't know, doing karaoke on the Flash? I'm trying to come up with ideas other than the most obvious, which is Felicity.

[Chaser]

It could be Waller or Lyla, if ARGUS is going to play a part in the spinoff. Neither of them has a presence on the Flash but they could if ARGUS if going to have a bigger presence. Or maybe Nyssa, since she could be training Laurel on Arrow, working with Sara (if it is Sara) on the spinoff, and...I don't know, doing karaoke on the Flash? I'm trying to come up with ideas other than the most obvious, which is Felicity.

I want Barry and Felicity karaoke….

[apinknightmare]

I'm pretty sure ARGUS is off the table on Arrow for a while, because of the Suicide Squad movie. And Lyla just quit, so she doesn't have that connection anymore. 

[dtissagirl]

I wonder if they can use Checkmate, instead of ARGUS/Suicide Squad? Sometimes these things can boil down to which actual words they can use. I agree that Waller is probably off limits because of the movie, though.

 

Otoh, we still don't have any idea if the spinoff is gonna be more Justice League/Society, or more super sekrit organization [like Checkmate]. Hopefully we'll know more by Upfronts next month.

[Morrigan2575]

I would agree Waller/Argus is off limits because of the movie. However, I could see them using Lyla and Checkmate as this government party that interacts/oversees mutant/vigilante/caped organizations.

i think that would work and I'd prefer that to possibly of Felicity being spread too thin?

[tarotx]

I want QL to go be on Flash and the CC Police Force instead of be in Starling where he has stupid to no purpose really. And then him checking on his daughter's on the other two shows. But Felicity is the connecting link between all 3 shows. I'm hoping it's someone else though they already established Fecility. As a job-well she works for Ray and is a member of team Arrow. So finding a way for her to "work" in support of team flash shouldn't be too difficult.

I just don't know what that means for Arrow. Surely more Laural and masked Thea Which means more s3. I'm hopeful for more Diggle But god knows he's barely used now :(

I'll probably not watch any of the shows as they air next year and just read what everyone says, to decide if I'll watch at all. I don't plan to spend a lot of time bitter abut a show I'm choosing to watch. It's sad to have a exit strategy for entertainment. Why can't shows stay good :(

Edited April 5, 2015 by tarotx

[nksarmi]

I agree that Felicity seems likely, but if Roy is fully identified as the Arrow in the public eye and they break him out of prison/need him to go on the run - he could be the one that will hover between all three shows.

[tarotx]

I guess if SA means it'll be the actor's job to hover between all 3 shows than it could mean Roy Or anyone.

[calliope1975]

If's the person hovering between shows is Felicity, I'll be happy for EBR, but it would be one more reason to jump ship on Arrow. I guess it's still not sinking into my thick brain that this show isn't the one I loved anymore, and it doesn't look like it's ever going to get back to that. I like the idea of Lyla bouncing between shows, but these EPs don't seem to care about things I like. Or things that make sense. Lyla's older and could be a grounded asset to all the teams, and she's not batshit scorched earth like Waller.