Sakura12 March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 Laurel knows nothing about Sara and what she's been through, she saw her scars and half heartily asked about them and then never asked her again. If that was my sister I would've been so worried about what happened to her, was she tortured, raped, how did she survive getting all those wounds? That is why Laurel taking up the mantle feels so unearned to me. Whether Sara comes back or not, I will forever be mad that Laurel gets the glory of what Sara did and stood for. I think I am going to watch this spin off because they don't have any predetermined love interest and hopefully the new characters are already in their costume so we can just watch people learning to work together and kick ass. Plus meeting Caity last weekend at Fan Fest made me like her even more so I will watch for her. 6 Link to comment
Danny Franks March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 Exactly. This was the moment I knew I was done with Arrow. How could you do something THAT painful to a character and play it off like no big deal? This should have been done similar in tone to The 100 season 2 finale, or Buffy season 2 finale. Not as an "uplifting" scene with Laurel getting the jacket. Thing is, I don't think the writers even remembered that Sara was so vehement about leaving that life behind. Because as I recall, that scene was barely even melancholy, let alone emotionally devastating as a young woman gives up all her hope for her future life. It obviously didn't help that her dingbat sister was grinning as though she was already plotting redecorating her sister's room and moving in as soon as she was gone. One of the big warning signs, in retrospect, that the writers had lost their perspective and were starting to write for plot rather than character. 5 Link to comment
FurryFury March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 (edited) Thing is, I don't think the writers even remembered that Sara was so vehement about leaving that life behind. Yeah, I also got this impression. Which is weird, because it's obvious that quite a bit of care was put into writing Sara's character and arc. Maybe the writer who originally pitched this story already left by the end of s2? It's quite clear Guggenheim wasn't the one to create Sara and make us fall in love with her character. Edited March 13, 2015 by FurryFury 1 Link to comment
romantic idiot March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 At the risk of sacrilege, didn't see CL put much nuance into that scene either, and surely she could have brought it up with the director. You do realize this is not an excuse, right? I do and I don't, depends on which belief system I'm using for my argument, really. Can we hold Nyssa responsible for doing something she didn't think was wrong (a psychopath know they are wrong and do it, a sociopath knows they are wrong and don't care). ? On the other hand, I also did say that Nyssa needed to be forgiven by Sara because Sara, obviously, doesn't agree with me. Link to comment
Sakura12 March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 To me Sara didn't look happy, she look resigned to her fate, but I can also go with she just got fired (since she knew about Sara dying in the season 3 premiere during the filming of the finale) so she wasn't putting too much effort into that stupid scene. I also don't think because of the firing that she could've had much say. That was according to the EP's gleeful responses Sara passing the torch to their beloved Laurel character. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 At the risk of sacrilege, didn't see CL put much nuance into that scene either, and surely she could have brought it up with the director. CL isn't the best actress but I thought she sold the underlying sadness in that scene. Sara looked like she was putting on a brave face but was still sad and resigned, especially when she's just about to board the boat and looked back at Lance/Laurel. 2 Link to comment
tv echo March 14, 2015 Share March 14, 2015 (edited) As we discussed before, I also don't think the writers remembered that Sara had a welcome home party in Starling City last season. IIRC, the EPs gave contradictory statements as to why Sara's death had to be kept secret. To this day, I'm still not sure why Team Arrow had that secret burial in Sara's old grave. Honestly, I think part of the reason the EPs decided to bring CL back for the spin-off was to remove some fan resentment against Laurel becoming the Black Canary at the expense of Sara's life. Edited March 14, 2015 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
statsgirl March 14, 2015 Share March 14, 2015 Also, Sara was a popular character and having her on the spin-off gives people who aren't there because of comics a reason to watch the show. Ray hasn't been that much of a draw yet, Robbie Amell is mostly eyecandy, and Wentworth Miller's character (if I can even remember his name) isn't that good to watch the spin-off for. With Grant Gustin, Barry was well-liked and you wanted to tune in to see what's going to happen with him. I don't get that vibe for Ray or Ronnie. Link to comment
JayKay March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 Whoa, just heard about this. Pros: Caity Lotz Cons: The Betamell I don't know how to feel. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 Whoa, just heard about this. Pros: Caity Lotz Cons: The Betamell I don't know how to feel. Betamell? Link to comment
JayKay March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 Betamell? It's my grade school level nickname for Robbie Amell. Beta male + Amell = I'm 10 years old. 2 Link to comment
Delphi March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 Beta version of Stephens alpha amell I'd assume. 1 Link to comment
apinknightmare March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 It's my grade school level nickname for Robbie Amell. Beta male + Amell = I'm 10 years old. Haha - he hasn't even been cast yet though, has he? Link to comment
Morrigan2575 March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 It's my grade school level nickname for Robbie Amell. Beta male + Amell = I'm 10 years old. Ah, thanks. So far he hasn't been announced so it's possible he isn't in the show Link to comment
JayKay March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 Oh okay, I read it in an evidently unreliable article. Fingers crossed. Link to comment
FurryFury March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 Yeah i also hope he'll be left on Flash or (preferably) on a neverending bus trip. Link to comment
Sakura12 March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 So, what gives there? When might we know how it is even possible for Caity – whose character is deceased – to be a part of this new ensemble? We asked Mr. Kreisberg when we might get some answers. “I think by the Spring, you’ll know,” Kreisberg teased. “We want to keep some surprises going, but we’re really excited about that series…. just to add another leg to the tripod, and complete it. We’ll get to see some of the characters that we’ve seen and introduce a whole bunch of new characters, and show them all in a different way, and have the show really feel different. As different as Flash feels from Arrow, this new show will feel different from both of them.” http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrowflash-spinoff-intel-when-will-we-know-more-especially-regarding-caity-lotz/22290 Link to comment
Starfish35 March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 I'm disappointed actually. I know they're not going to spoil how Sara comes back (assuming it is Sara), but I hoped we'd find out a little more information about the show this weekend. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 So, what gives there? When might we know how it is even possible for Caity – whose character is deceased – to be a part of this new ensemble? We asked Mr. Kreisberg when we might get some answers. “I think by the Spring, you’ll know,” Kreisberg teased. “We want to keep some surprises going, but we’re really excited about that series…. just to add another leg to the tripod, and complete it. We’ll get to see some of the characters that we’ve seen and introduce a whole bunch of new characters, and show them all in a different way, and have the show really feel different. As different as Flash feels from Arrow, this new show will feel different from both of them.” http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrowflash-spinoff-intel-when-will-we-know-more-especially-regarding-caity-lotz/22290 I wonder how much of the end of Arrow S3 will be given up to set up the spin-off.. Guessing CL/Sara? comes back to life somewhere between 21-23 (keep an eye out for Vancouver spotting). But whom else gets set up? Will Stein come visit Ray? Will they introduce some of these new DC characters? 1 Link to comment
Velocity23 March 16, 2015 Share March 16, 2015 Greg Berlanti talks about the spinoff. Link to comment
Sakura12 March 16, 2015 Share March 16, 2015 At least that settles the when it takes place. It's taking place at the same time as Arrow and Flash and not a bunch of heroes teaming up and random flashback of Sara. Which is what I figured when they wanted a Team Up show, meaning they want a team of super heroes interacting together not separately. Link to comment
Menrva March 16, 2015 Share March 16, 2015 Still catching up on everything, so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but given that time travel has been introduced on Flash, is it possible that Sara is from an alternate timeline where she never was killed by Thea/Malcolm? Just curious. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 March 16, 2015 Share March 16, 2015 It's possible but we have no answers on Sara. It's possible she's an AU version of Sara or a resurrected Sara. Since they've stated that Lazarus Pit will be used on Arrow I'm leaning towards Resurrected Sara. Link to comment
Sakura12 March 16, 2015 Share March 16, 2015 We've discussed AUSara being a possibility and as a way to get around the Black Canary in the room with the AU version never going by that name. I'd still watch if that was the case but I'd rather her be ourSara, I don't care how that would effect Laurel or season 3 since I'm not watching Arrow this season. 1 Link to comment
KirkB March 16, 2015 Share March 16, 2015 At this point we have speculated almost everything, from time travel to alternate universe to clone, and it seems as if the biggest thing for a lot of people is we just want Sara back. 14 Link to comment
kismet March 16, 2015 Share March 16, 2015 I have a feeling we will never know who, how or why CL is back in the Arrow/Flash?spin-off world until the spin-off premiere. That is going to be how they ensure that they rope viewers in. They may drop hints in Arrow/Flash but the big reveal will be on the Spin-off. I just can't see them telling us any sooner because it seems like CL & "sara" are all people are talking about regarding the spin-off. Maybe a little VG & WM here & there, but its been CL that has been stirring interest. Link to comment
Proteus March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 I have a feeling we will never know who, how or why CL is back in the Arrow/Flash?spin-off world until the spin-off premiere. That is going to be how they ensure that they rope viewers in. They may drop hints in Arrow/Flash but the big reveal will be on the Spin-off. I just can't see them telling us any sooner because it seems like CL & "sara" are all people are talking about regarding the spin-off. Maybe a little VG & WM here & there, but its been CL that has been stirring interest. According to the above article, we'll know in the Spring about Sara. That implies to me that Sara's return will be dealt with first on Arrow. 2 Link to comment
Delphi March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 According to the above article, we'll know in the Spring about Sara. That implies to me that Sara's return will be dealt with first on Arrow. Thank god, I need something to look forward to on arrow. 1 Link to comment
kismet March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 According to the above article, we'll know in the Spring about Sara. That implies to me that Sara's return will be dealt with first on Arrow. Missed that part in the article. Sorry! My mistake. Link to comment
Proteus March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Missed that part in the article. Sorry! My mistake. Oh, it's no problem. I was just pointing that out. :) Link to comment
Morrigan2575 March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 New article about the spin-off http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/16/cws-new-flasharrow-spin-honor-great-team-movies?asdf of the great team up movies, whether it’s Ocean’s Eleven or whether it’s the superhero books,” Berlanti tells EW. “That’s what it’s about. If you go back to the old westerns, there would be The Lone Gunman, but there would also be The Magnificent Seven. It’s very much in the spirit of those kinds of movies and shows.” Berlanti—who is also executive-producing CBS’ Supergirl pilot with Kreisberg, Schechter and Ali Adler—stresses that the new project would be quite different than what we’re used to. “I only want to do them when I know that they’ll feel distinct from the other shows we’re doing,” he says. “This is really its own thing.” One of the main burning questions after the project’s announcement was why Robbie Amell was missing from the cast list, considering he makes up the other half of Firestorm, Ronnie Raymond. Unfortunately, it sounds like bad news could be on the horizon as Berlanti admits there is a particular reason for his absence, but “I can’t say why.” Looks like something happens to Ronnie in Flash S1? Link to comment
Morrigan2575 March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Let's hope it's something bad. They already introduced Jason S so it's possible they could kill Ronnie and go with FireStorm as part of Stein/Jason. Or it's possible that Robbie Amell doesn't want to sign to a series (no idea why) and they go back to having Stein as the controlling aspect with Ronnie buried in Stein's mind and use CGI/Stuntman to be FireStorm. This option would allow them to bring Robbie on for big episodes and crossover without having Robbie on the show full time. I have to admit I'm kind of shocked. Robbie Amell isn't a good actor but he totally fits the CW standard, is Stephen's beloved cousin and has a relationship with Berlanti via The Tomorrow People. Figured he'd be a shoe in for the spin-off. 1 Link to comment
FurryFury March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 They already introduced Jason S Where? I don't know who this is. Was it on Arrow? Or it's possible that Robbie Amell doesn't want to sign to a series Doesn't look like that, judging by Berlanti's words. I'm definitely thinking he may die in Flash season finale or something. Robbie Amell isn't a good actor but he totally fits the CW standard Maybe they want to change the CW standard. High time for that, I'd say. Link to comment
Sakura12 March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Where? I don't know who this is. Was it on Arrow? He was the guy Catilin talked to when she got the info on project F.I.R.E.S.T.O.R.M. He was one of Stein's students. Link to comment
tv echo March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 (edited) Maybe Robbie Amell didn't want to commit to a tv series but wanted to concentrate on his movie career (The Duff). Edited March 17, 2015 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 CW’s ‘Arrow’-‘Flash’ Spinoff Will Feature ‘Big’ DC Comics Villain ‘Who Hasn’t Been Used Yet’ MARCH 16, 2015 | 04:11PM PT Laura Prudom News Editor @lauinla http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/flash-arrow-spinoff-villain-dc-comic-character-1201453825/ Link to comment
FurryFury March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 He was the guy Catilin talked to when she got the info on project F.I.R.E.S.T.O.R.M. He was one of Stein's students. Who was played by? Can this actor play a big role? Although personally, I'd be thrilled if Stein was just Firestorm, without a younger guy overshadowing him. If we have heroes of different races and sexes, why not different ages, too? 2 Link to comment
Lokiberry March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Let's hope it's something bad. Is it too soon to start pushing for Luke Mitchell for the role? 1 Link to comment
kismet March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Is it too soon to start pushing for Luke Mitchell for the role? Luke Mitchell just got cast to be on Marvel Agents of Shield, so I think that might not be possible since he already has a show now & its a rival Comic Company. But he really was the better of the male leads on TTP. Link to comment
Sakura12 March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Who was played by? Can this actor play a big role? Although personally, I'd be thrilled if Stein was just Firestorm, without a younger guy overshadowing him. If we have heroes of different races and sexes, why not different ages, too? Luc Roderique played Jason. Never heard of him and he didn't make that big of an impression in his one scene. He would add another POC to the Spin Off. Link to comment
Starfish35 March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Admittedly I know little about the comics, but isn't Firestorm always a duel personality, never just one person? I'm leaning more toward Stein being the mentor/scientist of the team, the "Giles" so to speak. Maybe they won't actually have Firestorm on this show. 1 Link to comment
Lokiberry March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Luke Mitchell just got cast to be on Marvel Agents of Shield, so I think that might not be possible since he already has a show now & its a rival Comic Company. But he really was the better of the male leads on TTP. It's only a recurring part, who knows if he's going to come back next season. Link to comment
kismet March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 (edited) It's only a recurring part, who knows if he's going to come back next season Can you be part of the Marvel universe & the DC universe? I thought once you committed to one, your options were limited at least for a few years if ever by strict legal contracts. But I did like Luke Mitchell & Im more inclined to watch this new spin-off (Victor Garber, how can u not give it a go?) then I am AoS (too many eps to catch up on), so if he joins the cast I'd be happy. Edited March 17, 2015 by kismet Link to comment
dtissagirl March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Dominic Purcell also going regular @ the spinoff: http://deadline.com/2015/03/dominic-purcell-cast-arrow-flash-spinoff-heat-wave-cw-1201393858/ Link to comment
Morrigan2575 March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Dominic Purcell also going regular @ the spinoff: http://deadline.com/2015/03/dominic-purcell-cast-arrow-flash-spinoff-heat-wave-cw-1201393858/ I like Dominic Purcell but I was not impressed with his turn as Heatwave. I'd prefer Pied Piper, he is/was a good villain. 1 Link to comment
Starfish35 March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 (edited) Ugh. I'd have preferred another female character. Right now we only have two. :( And I wasn't crazy about Heatwave. Why are these two series regulars anyway? Seems like their shtick would get repetitive pretty quickly. Edited March 17, 2015 by Starfish35 2 Link to comment
Sunshine March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Can you be part of the Marvel universe & the DC universe? I thought once you committed to one, your options were limited at least for a few years if ever by strict legal contracts. But I did like Luke Mitchell & Im more inclined to watch this new spin-off (Victor Garber, how can u not give it a go?) then I am AoS (too many eps to catch up on), so if he joins the cast I'd be happy. The mehness of Brandon Routh offsets the goodness which is Victor Garber so unless someone really fantastic is booked I'll be skipping this one. 2 Link to comment
Sakura12 March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 Having not watched Arrow this season, I don't have a real opinion on Ray. If they stick with him being the hero/inventor in the knock off Robocop suit I can probably deal with him on the Spin Off. I'm mostly checking out the show for Caity and Victor Garber. Link to comment
manbearpig March 17, 2015 Share March 17, 2015 I liked Captain Cold and Heatwave a lot on Flash, but they don't really strike me as the type of characters that should pop up more than a few times a season. I'm a little worried about this spin-off, actually. A superhero team up show could be a lot of fun. However, I don't care for Palmer, don't see how the writers are going to make the villains as fun as they are on Flash when they'll probably be in most episodes of the spin-off, and then there's the whole Sara mess. Link to comment
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