S02.E18: Tempus Fugit

[fantique]

All that's needed now, fire Goffman and Raven the Creeper.

I second that! This episode was 2/3 written for him since he basically copied backwards the series premiere episode (also an episode he wasn't on originally). Seriously, the crazy, the taking the prisoner away, convincing en route, Headless finds the mentor and kills him, while the weirdo is in prison, they in time person finds clue to their veracity. All the work was done for him. I think it was co-written because the dialogue reflected a respect and affection for both Ichabod and Abbie that is absent whenever he writes alone. The pacing was really well done and he never wrote a well paced episode (I found the first 2 episodes of season 2 to have really bad pacing and 2.11 was a mess), I am 100% sure someone else wrote the teleplay. If I'm wrong, then I would be even more pissed because that means we wasted all that time for nothing.

Even if he indeed does have the talent, it still means he's the type of showrunner to ignore narrative logic and integrity for wish fulfilment. Also, if KW is getting cut because of the Katrina mess then so should be the person who made it so. It's not fair for her to lose her spot and not him. I had problems with her interpretation and really think she fits a different type of show but she should not bear the burden of failure alone. Not saying she should stay on permanently because even if they kept her, Katrina as evil is bound to be redundant if she's a regular. Great evil characters only work in small doses (cough - Jenry - cough). Just saying that the only scenario I'm against is with Goffman still in. 

 

I don't think the hug was imbalance. That was Abbie's choice to hug him. And I don't think she particularly expected a hug back either.  It was like in the Sin Eater. She was overwhelmed with emotion and was worried she might never see her partner again. Hugging the Ichabod of the past was not something he expected, so I don't think it makes him a cold fish to not hug her back.  The Present Crane would hug her back.

I agree with this and many posters have coherently argued why IMO. I also think that it's completely inaccurate that Abbie is the one who is always reaching out. Yes, in the Witness business she has her eyes on the prize while he is flailing about but as for their friendship I would say that Ichabod is the one that shows more openly how important she is to him. She has her ways of letting him know she appreciates him but she's not that demonstrative with her affections.

Edited February 28, 2015 by fantique

[pcta]

It was in the S1 two part season finale.  They found a map to purgatory.  Ichabod was bound and determined to rescue Katrina using it.  But Abbie was convinced that it was too dangerous because Moloch's minions could use it to free him.  Finally Ichabod agreed and they burned the map.  He did a pinky swear.  But after Abbie left, safe in assuming they had averted a crisis... Ichabod redrew the map from memory because....Katrina' vortex of stupidity.  To be fair, he shed a manly tear of betrayal while doing it.

Also made a map from memory earlier in S1 when the Hessians stole the map to the Horseman's head

[DeLurker]

Also made a map from memory earlier in S1 when the Hessians stole the map to the Horseman's head

A sentence that strings together words that don't seem to make any sense, yet do to us. I love the absurdity that came with S1.

[pcta]

Uh, it is continuing an answer of when Ichabod made a map from memory. The first time was when the Hessians stole the sextant projector that showed the map of the location of headless Horseman's head (which he needed to regain for full power). After, the modern day Hessians left, Ichabod redrew the map from memory

[catrox14]

PCTA, I think deLurker was agreeing with you.

 

You succintly stated what the map was for and I think deLurker meant that only SleepyHeads would understand that sentence you wrote because of the silliness of SH. Not that your sentence was poorly worded.

[DeLurker]

I wasn't saying the sentence did not make sense in the context of SH, just that the show was so BSC that you (not you specifically) end up writing sentences that would not make sense in many other circumstances.

No criticism or slight intended in any way, shape or form.

ETA: what catrox14 said. Thank you

Edited February 28, 2015 by DeLurker

[pcta]

Thanks. I have been known to write incoherent sentences so I just assumed it was another. Need a sense of humor injection this morning.

[BrokenRemote]

I'm thinking she will. How else would she have known to call Ichabod Captain. She never calls him that.

Also, it would negate Grace telling Abbie that she was to fill in the rest of her magic journal.

You guys are right that she remembered. I'd completely forgotten her comments to Jenny and the whole 'Captain' thing. Although I've also seen it done that the traveler's memory is fuzzier on the events as time goes on and they settle back into their normal time.

As far as the journal, this and several other comments have confused me. Isn't this the same journal Abbie's had all along, that Grace started and other ancestors have continued to fill in? I didn't think it was a book of magical spells or anything, and figured a lot of those blank pages have since been filled by Grace's descendants. I took it to mean "keep adding to this like the family already has and you probably have or planned to", in other words, you still have some experiences to have and write about, rather than Grace imparting new knowledge to Abbie. I feel like some took it to be a new book, or a book of spells and now I don't know which to think.

Edited March 1, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Sparkling Beth]

I interpreted it the same way you did, BrokenRemote.  It's the book Abbie has in the future, and Grace is reminding her that she (Abbie) will be responsible for filling in the blank pages that remain.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

Now, I'm just going to be twiddling my thumbs anxiously awaiting renewal news. 

 

Please FOX, don't let us down! 

 

You know, everyone`s talking about the hug. Screw the hug (seriously). Focus on Abbie taking down that sleazy guy who was going to hurt her. Hell friggin yeah! That was a thing of beauty!!

 

She warned him. 

 

 

I know I'm a bit late for the snappy one-liners, but my viewing was delayed. That said, my household did just have to listen to me yell:

YES KATRINA GO INTO THE LIGHT.

 

I yelled "Holy Shit! Ichabod just stabbed his wife!"  

[archiesmom]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this but when Ichabod's looking through Abbie's belongings for her phone, he finds her ID first. The ID actually has her birthdate as 12/23/1973. I was always under the impression Abbie was supposed to be in her late 20's maybe 30. 

[HalcyonDays]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this but when Ichabod's looking through Abbie's belongings for her phone, he finds her ID first. The ID actually has her birthdate as 12/23/1973. I was always under the impression Abbie was supposed to be in her late 20's maybe 30. 

 

She is supposed to be in her twenties. I think it was just supposed to be a little in-joke by the props guy or someone - like a spouses or their own significant date. If you look carefully, you'll also see that the ID expired 01/01/2015.

 

Noting Crane's birthday, now I wish I didn't delete the episode Root of All Evil. There is a shot of Ichabod's passpost photo and information, including his birthdate. I'm just wondering if it happens to be the same month/year as 08/18 or something completely else. Can't find a screen shot anywhere either to confirm.

[sinkwriter]

When in the episode does it happen, HalcyonDays? I may be able to cue up the scene and see what that shot of his photo and info says.

[HalcyonDays]

When in the episode does it happen, HalcyonDays? I may be able to cue up the scene and see what that shot of his photo and info says.

 

Ooo...I love you....It's around the end of the episode (at least 3/4 in) where Crane and Abbie are in the bar, and Hawley comes in and sits down. He throws a yellow envelope to Crane. They talk, snark, etc. Hawley leaves. Crane opens the envelope, pulls out the passport and displays it open to Abbie and us. You can clearly see his picture, name and what's written. I know it states he's a British Citizen but the birthdate I don't remember. The year though, I remember they used Mison's own birth year (1982 or maybe 81?), but I completely forget the date.

 

That would be great if you could get a shot of the birthdate itself or just let us know what the birthdate is! THANK YOU sinkwriter!

 

I know that it may not match, only cause Hawley could have simply made it up, but the spelling of the name and birth date should have been something Hawley maybe asked Abbie. (you know, Ichabod itself, and then Crane vs Craine vs Crain vs Krane, etc.)

[sinkwriter]

My eyes are not great so it's hard to catch. I just looked but it is really hard to see the details of the typewritten stuff. They switch the scene shot too quickly so part of the time it's blurred (when he's looking at it himself it's completely blurred) and when he holds it up for Abbie to see, it's fuzzy then clear but is displayed and then gone too fast. It's definitely "Crane" for the spelling and "SEP/SEPT" for the month (it looks like they list it both ways on the passport). It looks like 82 or 83 for the year, maybe 85, but it's hard to make out the day. To me it looks like the 11th.

 

Which would mean Sept 11. Kind of warped for Hawley to choose that date. But then he is kind of a smart ass.

 

I tried to take a screenshot on my computer but it's too small/fuzzy to see for sure, and they only show it super-sharp for a split second so it was tough to capture..

 

If they used Mison's own birth year, then according to IMDB it should be '82.

Edited March 2, 2015 by sinkwriter

[HalcyonDays]

^^^^  YES, THANK YOU sinkwriter!! Now I remember the September 11th date, because I thought it was weird at the time, that the prop guy choose that particular date of all things. I mean, out of any date, they could have chosen Mison's birthday or even something like July 4th or some random date or whatever. I did remember that the passport and 08/18 were not the same, which is why I was trying to find a screen shot. And now that my memory has been jogged, I believe the year as one off from Mison's - they made Crane 31, but Mison is 32, so 1983. That I semi-remember.

 

So archiemom's - Yeah, not surprised about Abbie's ID card being totally off. I think the prop people picked something meaningful to them, for both Crane's DOB on his passport, his "actual" birthday (08/18) and Abbie's DOB and expiry date. Who knows what will change in season 3. I guess they are kinda committed to 08/18 now, at least. The rest - who knows!

 

Thank you again SW and also for the screen shot!! It was driving me up the wall, only because I like little shout outs and continuity and hints (like the numbers 1014 popping up everywhere in X-Files), but know that SH is so notorious for not caring.

[archiesmom]

She is supposed to be in her twenties. I think it was just supposed to be a little in-joke by the props guy or someone - like a spouses or their own significant date. If you look carefully, you'll also see that the ID expired 01/01/2015.

 

 

Ahh, that makes more sense I guess. Nothing wrong with being 41. I would've just said congrats on your beautiful young face and moved on. 

 

I sometimes wish they wouldn't try so hard to throw in little nods here and there and actually attempt  some form of continuity. They could've made her birthday 12/23 and a more believable year. Reminds me of when Abigail Adams made that little monster comment about Katrina being pregnant. They just wanted a funny joke but it just made everyone question whether or not they knew their own timeline.

 

If this show gets renewed for next season, this board needs a nitpicks and continuity thread. I bet it would fill up fast.

[jhlipton]

As far as the journal, this and several other comments have confused me. Isn't this the same journal Abbie's had all along, that Grace started and other ancestors have continued to fill in?

They definitely showed that the Grimoire came back, but there wasn't another book, so I think that Grace was saying "fill in the book you have". 

[Hanahope]

Again no, present day Ichabod at that moment has no idea she is trying to murder him as well as Abbie. 1700's Ichabod knew that, and then 2015 Ichabod forgot about it because it was erased. He reacted to Abbie's life being threatened and that alone. In that moment in that scene all Katrina said is Abbie killed her son, and SHE must die, not " I'm gonna kill your ass too".

 

 

In the first episode of this two parter, Ichabod does know that Katrina wants to kill him.  As they fight after Jeremy is killed, she says how she should have let him die after the horseman wounded him, and that this time, she won't make the mistake of saving him.  Then she casts the time-travel spell.  So Ichabod knows that Katrina is trying to do something that will result in his death.

 

But yes, I do think he made the conscious decision to save Abbie over Katrina, even if there was the possibility that by letting Katrina kill Abbie, she wouldn't also try again to kill him.  For all he knows, after Katrina does kill Abbie, she tries the time travel spell again and is able to let Ichabod die.

 

I just had to laugh that Abbie walks right into the middle of the village, knowing that something is different. You think she'd be a little more stealthy.

 

I'm glad she's dead, the character was a real fifth wheel in so many things.  Never really helping, and most of the time making things harder because of having to save her.  For all the powers she displayed in these two episodes, she was virtually worthless earlier.  And she and Ichabod really had no chemistry together.

[Fable]

I wouldn't really mind if this was the series finale.  Don't get me wrong, I've been a fan since episode 1, but I lost my initial enthusiasm after we found out that Henry was Crane's son.  I never got to the point of hating the series or even Katrina, but something got lost in the storytelling in season 2.  Whether the writers were planning on this arc or not (doubt), it just dragged on for far too long.   I'm leery of a season 3 because the show runners may have lost the goodwill of the viewers, and it may be too late to course correct.  If it does come back, I'm all in, but if it doesn't come back for season 3, I will be satisfied with that ending because how could I not love the core 4 back together again, riding  into the sunset and harvesting fanfic!

[Sparkling Beth]

I definitely think the season finale would work as a series finale, but I want a third season!  The finale put the show back on track, IMO, and I really don't want to say goodbye to Ichabod and Abbie yet. 

 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Sparkling Beth

[BigBlueMastiff]

I'm sure it's already been said but, ding dong the witch is dead. I really liked this episode, the dynamic of Crane and Abby in the reverse fish out of water situation was fun. especially loved all the references to Abby being tetched, or the strange looks, and comments about her status. The end was truly satisfying, last week the stupid son is killed, and now Katrina. So cheesy the way her son was beckoning her, good riddance to them both.

[cincivic]

Bravo! Terrific episode. I do hope there is another season. I look forward to the show every week. The writers missed a great opportunity to turn Katrina evil earlier in the season. It would have been more interesting. And if Jenny had developed witch powers that could have been a whole new ballgame.

It can be said enough but Tom Mison was super hot this episode.

[vanarnd1]

Commenting late here but even though I liked the episode something felt off for me. As everyone said the Ichabbie chemistry was great and I was glad that Katrina is finally gone, but the episode felt like more like an audition to be renewed than a finale. I can understand why there was no cliffhanger and I am glad they reset things, but I wonder what type of story they would be able to tell even if they got a Season 3. The writers used the CFD as a crutch the whole season and the mythology was very inconsistent as well so I am not sure how they would handle starting from square one. I do hope the show is renewed because I love watching Beharie and Mison, but the writers have a lot of work to do if they get the chance to do a Season 3..

[Sparkling Beth]

I think season three of Sleepy Hollow could be handled in a similar fashion to shows like The X-Files or Angel--they handle a different case of supernatural trouble each week, with perhaps an arc storyline that is woven into the entire season but isn't featured in every episode. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by Sparkling Beth

[tennisgurl]

I really wish they spent some of that pointless time with Katrina and Headless showing Katrina`s eventual turn to the dark side. That way, she would have something to do, and her turn to evil wouldn't have felt so sudden at the end. 

[phoenics]

Even if he indeed does have the talent, it still means he's the type of showrunner to ignore narrative logic and integrity for wish fulfilment. Also, if KW is getting cut because of the Katrina mess then so should be the person who made it so. It's not fair for her to lose her spot and not him. I had problems with her interpretation and really think she fits a different type of show but she should not bear the burden of failure alone.

I agree. I may hate Katrina and have my qualms about KW - but she wouldn't have been shoved down our throats this season had it not been for Goffman's affection for her and the character, and his obvious dislike or disdain for Abbie/NB.

I really want him gone.

[RiddleyWalker]

I agree. I may hate Katrina and have my qualms about KW - but she wouldn't have been shoved down our throats this season had it not been for Goffman's affection for her and the character, and his obvious dislike or disdain for Abbie/NB.

I really want him gone.

I want him gone, too. Not only does he push a character that is disliked and minimize the strengths of the show and characters, but he seems to have no understanding of genre TV. Every week is a totally new experience with Goffman in charge-- different "rules" (for the mythology and magic), different character traits for the cast and a different direction for the plot.

 

Is it that difficult to sketch out a compelling and coherent course for a year of the show that sticks to the rules and seems like character development and plot progression? I'm tired of mythology that makes no sense based on previous episodes and leaves numerous threads unanswered and I'm tired of characters being schizophrenic like Ichabod has been. 

 

Rant over...

[phoenics]

I want him gone, too. Not only does he push a character that is disliked and minimize the strengths of the show and characters, but he seems to have no understanding of genre TV. Every week is a totally new experience with Goffman in charge-- different "rules" (for the mythology and magic), different character traits for the cast and a different direction for the plot.

Is it that difficult to sketch out a compelling and coherent course for a year of the show that sticks to the rules and seems like character development and plot progression? I'm tired of mythology that makes no sense based on previous episodes and leaves numerous threads unanswered and I'm tired of characters being schizophrenic like Ichabod has been.

Rant over...

Part of me wants to say that when Goffman started to try to force Katrina into the narrative and build story around her - THAT's when all of the mythology and coherency went off the rails. Even in the Abigail Adams episode, they were so focused on "Katrina front and center!" that they forgot that Ichabod never knew about Katrina's pregnancy.

The issue appeared to be Goffman's singular focus on shoving Katrina to the forefront. That caused the writers to have to twist the show into a pretzel to accommodate a character that DOES NOT FIT. When you have to morph a show into a completely different thing in order to "FORCE" a character to fit - that character DOES NOT FIT!!!

But here's my issue - I don't trust that Goffman understands the show enough (I don't believe he wrote the finale on his own) to write the show continuously in a S1 fashion... or to build on the success of S1 (the first half).

Without his muse (KW/Katrina) I just worry he'll find another one and do the same thing all over again. He clearly doesn't seem to have any affinity for Abbie/NB.

And

according to BTS spoilers from fan forum posted here - way back - TPTB want Ichabod single so they can (apparently) shove a bunch of women at him repeatedly. I don't mind that as long as they are transient and as long as Goffman doesn't plan on just auditioning a bunch of these women to become nuKatrina because Goffman just cannot stand having NB/Abbie as a true lead - even though she's clearly a HUGE draw on this show.

Edited March 6, 2015 by OnceSane
fixed spoiler tags

[jhlipton]

TPTB want Ichabod single so they can (apparently) shove a bunch of women at him repeatedly.

Ick. Guck. Ack.

(And each will die or otherwise drop off the show, and Indi's expectation of manpain will be reinforced through the roof.)

Barf. no.

Edited March 6, 2015 by OnceSane
added spoiler tags

[EricaShadows]

I really liked this episode when I hated the majority of Season 2 and it's because Katrina is no longer in the picture (for now) as well as the good writing.  The episode was fast-paced, had all the snarkalicious dialogue I came to love in the first season and all the tech-no gags as well.  However, throughout the season, I've noticed how much I dislike Katrina and that's because of the writers and, to a lesser extent, the actress.  While Katia Winters could only do so much with what she was given by the writers (and whatever direction she's given on set), there are actors who have done more with less, so I place some of the blame on her for the bad reception of Katrina.  The rest, and the majority, of the blame I place squarely on the writers and Goffman.  The writers get the blame for just piss-poor writing that should never have seen the light of day much less be shown on national television and Goffman, because he not only seems to have greenlighted the shitty scripts, but seems to have forced Katrina into a role she shouldn't ever have been, that of main character.  I really hated that Goffman and company were trying WAY too hard to make Katrina the focus and it wasn't working, mainly due to the writing.  If the writing for season two had been any good, the character wouldn't have been so hated, but the writing sucked, for the character as a whole, and the majority of the second season and THAT is the primary reason why people hate the character (well that and the character was never really defined).  That is due to the writers and to Goffman, not to anyone else.

As for Katrina suddenly going bad, I was not totally surprised.  Some people form an unhealthy attachment to another person, whether or not that person returns it.  I think Henry was that person for Katrina.  He was her son, the son she had lost, and the son she feared dead.  I would not be surprised if, facing everything she had, she had mentally fractured and the flashback-Katrina was the GOOD, helpful part of her and the part that made it into the real world was the rest of her.  In light of that, I viewed her as struggling to combine all the parts of herself, but when Henry showed her some affection (and pushed by the unhealthy attachment), she mentally went to the Dark Side and was playing double agent until forced to reveal her hand at the end.  The good part was gone, long since, at that point.  This is me playing armchair mental health counselor however.  I have no training in any of the psychiatric arts.

Edited March 8, 2015 by EricaShadows

[GHScorpiosRule]

I've been mainly a lurker on this show's thread,,,but I read ALL seven pages to see if anyone would bring this up and if anyone had an answer, or are we supposed to just hand wave it away?

 

When Katrina took herself and Abbie back to the past, how is it that Katrina didn't run into her past self? Or did she just jump into the body of her past self?

 

That said, I really enjoyed it and I'm glad both Henry and Katrina are dead and gone.

[HalcyonDays]

I've been mainly a lurker on this show's thread,,,but I read ALL seven pages to see if anyone would bring this up and if anyone had an answer, or are we supposed to just hand wave it away?

 

When Katrina took herself and Abbie back to the past, how is it that Katrina didn't run into her past self? Or did she just jump into the body of her past self?

 

That said, I really enjoyed it and I'm glad both Henry and Katrina are dead and gone.

 

Katrina jumped into her own body that existed in 1781. That's why she was wearing different clothes (nurse outfit) and seemed to be in the middle of tending soldier wounds. Also, she briefly touches her belly, indicating she was now pregnant.

 

Abbie, on the other hand, had no body to fill, therefore it was her with her own clothes, own body as an addition to that time. Hope that makes sense.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Katrina jumped into her own body that existed in 1781. That's why she was wearing different clothes (nurse outfit) and seemed to be in the middle of tending soldier wounds. Also, she briefly touches her belly, indicating she was now pregnant.

 

Abbie, on the other hand, had no body to fill, therefore it was her with her own clothes, own body as an addition to that time. Hope that makes sense.

 

 

Thanks Halcyon. That makes total sense. I wasn't thinking about Abbie, because, like you said, she didn't exist back then, so of course there wouldn't be a body for her to "jump into."

 

I suppose I expected to see some kind of...if not conflict, but something between past and present Katrina, or something. Since past Katrina at that time, wasn't evuhl. Not that I care, mind you. It's these little things I tend to latch onto sometimes. It's the anal-retentive person in me, I guess. Heh.

[HalcyonDays]

 

 

Thanks Halcyon. That makes total sense. I wasn't thinking about Abbie, because, like you said, she didn't exist back then, so of course there wouldn't be a body for her to "jump into."

 

I suppose I expected to see some kind of...if not conflict, but something between past and present Katrina, or something. Since past Katrina at that time, wasn't evuhl. Not that I care, mind you. It's these little things I tend to latch onto sometimes. It's the anal-retentive person in me, I guess. Heh.

 

No worries, GHScorpiosRule. We've nitpicked this show to hell and back, and it still doesn't make sense half of the time. Problem is the idiot writers never bothering to create a bible or a manual with all of the rules and information needed to define the SH universe. There is a glaring lack of continuity in the show, to the point that it's a miracle that we can explain some of this stuff *grin* To quote Ichabod Crane.. 'Makes no sense.'

 

I will say I am glad there was not two Katrina's, though I am sure Goffman desperately tried. The less screen time with her, the better. And hopefully there is a season 3, which means NO screen time.