S03.E14: The Return

[looptab]

So.Dumb.

[TanyaKay]

You know what I would have liked Oliver to answer? Slade Wilson said that if Oliver had told him what happened to Shado, Moira Queen did not need to die, it was his habit of keeping secrets that was responsible. All Oliver did in response was to scream and make angry face. Like really?

Thea was not even curious enough to ask even though it concerned her mom.

[marketdoctor]

Some things I wondered about the prison escape:

 

Why would you put an escape button j--u--s--t out of reach?  I'd put the button in a different building, preferably on a different continent.

Why didn't Thea or Oliver just use a shoe?  They just had to push the button, not type in an access code or anything.

(This would have also made some good dialogue--it still could if Slade explains that's how he escaped.)

 

Also, I liked Kate Cassidy better in this episode--I still think Laurel is written badly, but everyone seems to be making their peace with that.

[Password]

Hmm about Slade not killing Moira. Didn't he say "it doesn't matter" when Oliver said he didn't kill Shado or something? It came across as he didn't care that there were reasons outside of the choice for Shado dying.

[TVHappy9463]

I liked this episode, the flashback episodes where good. Nice to see Tommy, and yes it was a bit far fetched that no one recognized or saw Ollie, but if you thought someone was dead would you be looking for them in a crowd? I am enjoying the Thea/Ollie relationship, yes the flashbacks showing how lost she was and using the drugs was a bit heavy handed when contrasted with the "how far she has come" stuff, but I love Arrow so I forgive clumsiness.  

We get Ray in the suit next week, lets see how that goes.  I like him and hope they keep the character around for a while. I would like to see Felicity and him together so Ollie can be jealous and stew.  

Diggle's brother! It was Clark from Bones.    

[KirkB]

That's a good point, actually. Why WOULD you put the cell access button within reach of the prisoners? It shouldn't even be in the same room, since I'm betting Boomerang could find something in his cell to throw and hit it. But then again they don't technically need a cell since wasn't there a plot line or two in the first season about the whole island being a...what do you call it, prison?

[jay741982]

I liked this episode, the flashback episodes where good. Nice to see Tommy, and yes it was a bit far fetched that no one recognized or saw Ollie, but if you thought someone was dead would you be looking for them in a crowd? I am enjoying the Thea/Ollie relationship, yes the flashbacks showing how lost she was and using the drugs was a bit heavy handed when contrasted with the "how far she has come" stuff, but I love Arrow so I forgive clumsiness.  

We get Ray in the suit next week, lets see how that goes.  I like him and hope they keep the character around for a while. I would like to see Felicity and him together so Ollie can be jealous and stew.  

Diggle's brother! It was Clark from Bones.

I'm liking Thea's evolution and Ray and Felicity together will only be good if Oliver gets off his ass and fights for a future with her. She's gonna be torn so I hope that means he fights for her

[foreverevolving]

Something i remembered and liked: Thea and Oliver fighting scene with the sticks and Thea's answer to Oliver inquiry that she's so good only after nine months, and her answer is Malcolm is a good teacher (or something to that affect).

Once again the difference between Thea and Fakanary: Thea got trained by freakin Malcolm... Why isn't she out there in BC gear?!

[CarBe]

Worst episode of Arrow EVER! The most boring episode ever. I fast forwarded through nearly the entire thing and I only usually fast forward through Lance family drama BS. ThoughI have to say I've actually enjoyed Laurel in the last few episodes.

And in what universe is the CEO suite not locked up at night. No way does some entry level newbie IT hire have access to the CEO office nor even NEED to leave a paper memo on his desk. The whole Felicity scene was badly contrived and an insult to the audience's intelligence. Felicity and Oliver have a great first meeting in season 1, there was no need taint it with this useless scene.

[Shanna]

Hmm about Slade not killing Moira. Didn't he say "it doesn't matter" when Oliver said he didn't kill Shado or something? It came across as he didn't care that there were reasons outside of the choice for Shado dying.

Yeah, everything slade said this episode about it was, as usual, bullshit. Shut up slade. Oliver didn't kill shado. He kept the secret because of Sara's advice and lord you would think someone would learn not to do that shit eventually....

Someone posted tis pic from S1E2 on SpoilerTV. They could really claim he was looking for the blonde girl in a ponytail and glasses if they choose to.

This is amazing. Well done Internet!!!

[pigs-in-space]

Speaking of plot holes, why did Oliver have to kill that guy at Tommy's party?  Yeah, everyone's going to believe a clearly coked-out drug dealer who claims he saw dead Oliver Queen.  Sure.

[apinknightmare]

It's weird that this ep isn't on iTunes yet - I bought a season pass over the hiatus (terrible decision) and usually they're up by the time I wake up the next morning.

[DrSpaceman10]

It's weird that this ep isn't on iTunes yet - I bought a season pass over the hiatus (terrible decision) and usually they're up by the time I wake up the next morning.

 

I guess that Felicity scene really did break the internet. 

[romantic idiot]

I'd have to go back and rewatch, but does Felicity actually say anything to make it clear that she is talking about Oliver and not Robert? They are both in that picture and both presumed dead, right?

I'll show myself out.

I love this and it's going to be my head canon from now. Having said that, the Ollie we know was (and still is) vain enough to assume she was talking about him. 

 

I was very pleased that there wasn't even a hint of any Laurel longing from Oliver.  

I thought the show was quite clever actually. They threw all 3 women a bone - Oliver calls out Sara's name in his sleep, Laurel is called Black Canary for the first time, and Felicity makes him smile. Makes me nostalgic for Smallville's ship-baiting. Not. 

 

I liked this episode, the flashback episodes where good. Nice to see Tommy, and yes it was a bit far fetched that no one recognized or saw Ollie, but if you thought someone was dead would you be looking for them in a crowd? 

 

In fact, I'd say if someone did you remind you of your dead loved one, you'd probably work even harder to dismiss it, once you are past the stages of grief, which all of these folks clearly were (including Quentin). 

[Ang]

That picture is fabulous. I'm totally ok with Oliver vaguely remembering Felicity from an earlier near-encounter. It's retcon city but it's cute so I'll allow it.

I liked the episode a lot! Of course, I watch on my phone in the morning as I wander around doing laundry/get kids ready for school/eating breakfast, so admittedly it doesn't have to command my full attention, plus I've definitely got a, "Yeah, ok, whatever, Show" attitude after the nightmare of 3x10-3x12. But I genuinely enjoyed it. The callbacks were cute, I liked Thea and Oliver on the island a ton, and the loss of Team Arrow: Original Flavor didn't hurt as much when we at least got to see a set-up for them.

Oliver is such a murderer it's not even funny. Sorry, guy, but even nasty drug dealers who prey on broken 15yo girls are protected under the law. It's yet another thing I just let slide because if I think about it too hard it's disturbing.

Ugh Laurel whatever, but that last pointless scene with Tommy at least let her smile, and that upped her appeal slightly.

OK, seriously, how does the writing on this show work?? Surely they had the script for this episode before they shot last week's. Why on earth did they have Thea do a complete 180 on Malcolm last episode, when it makes so much more sense to just show her starting to question her loyalty to him, ESPECIALLY when you had this episode right around the corner to seal the deal? It would have made that whole transition so much more powerful, like Thea's really cementing her loyalty to Oliver/TA. As it stands, she still comes across as rather unreliable and temperamental. This made me super hopeful that we'll get to see her in full Speedy mode, next season at least.

[quarks]

An episode that provided law schools everywhere with a new recruiting tactic: graduate, and you can choose between being a high powered corporate lawyer in San Francisco OR run around with a mask dramatically pouring alcohol on innocent graves! YAY!

 

I enjoyed it.  Which probably says more about me than the episode.

 

Good things:

 

1. Slade! Alas, not in the episode enough, but SLADE! Threatening Felicity! Threatening Thea! Apparently left behind without a single guard or a nice steak. That was sad.  Also, apparently unaware that there's a second person down there who is equally unfond of Oliver Queen. I need evil bonding, show! I need it!

 

2. But I did get Oliver/Thea bonding, and Thea learning about Sara at last. Glad they didn't drag that out.

 

3. Felicity/Diggle flashbacks. Cute.

 

4. Tommy attempting to keep Thea out of a 21 year and older party. And then completely flopping on that by not calling a taxi or having someone drive her home when she showed up, but it was a nice thought.

 

5. Maseo's comment about the hoodie and the eyepaint. Heh. Maseo in general this episode, hee.  

 

6. Oliver breaking the drug dealer's neck, making the next step towards becoming the Hood. Also, probably leaving some sort of mess on Malcolm Merlyn's floor as a result which at this point I can only applaud.  Also, Oliver admitting that his family would already be ashamed of him. Nice touch.

 

7. Paul Blackthorne: his character was put through hell tonight, but great performance.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. ARGUS runs that island prison with just one guard?  That seems questionable.  What happens when the guard needs to go to sleep or marathon the latest season of Game of Thrones?  What happens when the toilets break?  Speaking of which, I didn't see any toilets, and how long were Thea and Oliver locked in the same cell together and should we be asking embarrassing questions?

 

2. What sort of super secret super evil government agency puts the cell release button within reach of prisoners?  How could they be sure that the prison would only hold strong, well muscled men with thick arms? For that matter, couldn't these strong, well muscled men with thick arms break those cots and use a leg from the cots to push the cell release button?  Whatever happened to good old fashioned heavy keys held by a dog?

 

3. Based on the first season, I kinda thought Oliver had more information about the list than a vague video file from his father.

 

4. You're seriously trying to tell me that Oliver's fingerprint on the biometric whatever wouldn't have had alarm bells ringing throughout QC?

 

5. And while I'm complaining about that, pre island Oliver's major accomplishment, that we've seen, was getting his father to give him money to pay the pizza delivery boy.  Why on earth was his fingerprint or biometrics given access to QC records?

 

Bad things:

 

1. Even apart from their questionable prison systems, WTF is up with ARGUS?  They're a huge, top secret organization with unlimited money and access to the entire U.S. military, and yet, somehow, the only way they can find Chin Na Wei is by using a guy of questionable loyalties who could easily be recognized by anyone in Starling City - and even was recognized by a drug dealer he'd never met before?  These guys suck.

 

2. So, the purpose of heading to the island was to develop killer instincts so Oliver and Thea would kill Ra's, but instead of killing anything other than whatever they had for dinner, they....came back and chatted in their living room. Ok, then.  Also, why didn't they bring smores along?  They had big backpacks and it was a camping trip! You can't have family bonding on evil islands without smores!

 

And now, Laurel:

 

At times, I find myself feeling a bit sorry for Katie Cassidy, and this would be one of those times: having finally made it through an episode more or less credibly and getting a nice moment with Colin Donnell, reminding us that yes, she can have cute moments with other actors, having to deliver that line:

 

"It's like you knew, even then, you knew that my life was always headed towards that mask."

 

I mean, I admit it, I laughed. A lot. And I am not going to say anything about how that line was delivered because it was one of those lines Lawrence Olivier couldn't have saved, made even worse since so much of the episode focused on the far more expressive Willa Holland. But since I brought it up, Laurel, honey, a few quick notes: 

 

1. Lawyers are not, as a rule, restricted to just the two career options of corporate law and vigilantism.

 

2. As a prosecuting attorney, you have to be familiar with the concept that most normal, middle class people - like you and your father - do not, in fact, expect their friends and family to grow up to be vigilantes. Or criminals.  Or even wearing a mask as a circus performer or something like that. That's a line that might have worked with Roy. Maybe. Probably not.  And absolutely no one else on the show.

 

3. You had to be guilt tripped into taking a job at a legal aid office.

 

Moving on!

 

Unlike some of you here, I didn't think this episode propped Laurel up at all. I thought it made her look worse. Sure, Quentin was terrible to her in the flashbacks - but there was a strong indication in the script that part of his alcoholism was triggered not just by his daughter's "death" but by the fact that his other daughter wasn't all that sympathetic and supportive, even before the San Francisco thing.  And sure, the episode had her give up a cushy corporate job for CNRI, but also strongly suggested that she was a gold digger - even apart from her father's comments, taking the cushy corporate job in the first place, and then giving it up after Tommy made some sushi comment.

 

And that last scene at the graveyard really didn't do her any favors. So, let's check:

 

Number of times Laurel fails as an attorney this episode: One, in her apparent unawareness of the many career options open to attorneys.

 

Number of times Laurel fails as a vigilante this episode: Didn't come up this episode, unless you count that she wasn't the one to throw the drug dealer off the balcony and even I'm not that critical.

 

Number of times Laurel fails as a human being this episode:  Four: 1, Getting into a fight with her father when he's attempting to conduct a murder investigation and not saying, "Um, dead body, anyone? Can we focus on that?" 2, Choosing to hang out at a party instead of taking underage and clearly hurting Thea home, 3, having to be guilt tripped into leaving a corporate law firm for a legal aid office, 4, Pouring alcohol on her sister's grave so she won't be tempted to drink it.  Laurel, there's a time and place for pouring alcohol on people's graves, and it's always when you are pouring alcohol FOR THE DEAD PERSON because said person liked drinking.  Working a few months as a bartender does not put the dead person on that status. I'm honestly not sure that Quentin was hard enough on her at that grave.

 

Fortunately Laurel was a sideplot in this episode, which went back to focusing on Oliver.  And for those still worried that this show is going to return to Laurel/Oliver this season (or ever) this episode seemed to suggest the direct opposite. Flashback Oliver focused on Thea, not Laurel; Slade brought up Felicity, not Laurel.

 

Fingers crossed that Andy Diggle's arrival means that H.I.V.E. is coming up at some point. I can have some hope for this, right?

[SmallScreenDiva]

I thought the show was quite clever actually. They threw all 3 women a bone - Oliver calls out Sara's name in his sleep, Laurel is called Black Canary for the first time, and Felicity makes him smile. Makes me nostalgic for Smallville's ship-baiting. Not.

 

I didn't see ship-baiting with the BC reference and the Sara mention. Oliver calling out Sara's name in his sleep was an excuse for Thea to start bugging him about Sara. Less cynically, Sara "died" just offshore and this is the first time Oliver is spending a good amount of time back on the island. That, plus worrying about his sister and her involvement in Sara's killing, I could buy him dreaming of Sara. Didn't see anything romantic there.

 

As for BC? Right now, LL is more positioned as the Arrow's sidekick rather than as a love interest. As mentioned by somebody upthread (Morrigan2575?), the writers could have shown Oliver jealous and pining when he saw Laurel and Tommy. It wouldn't have been retconning at all. But they didn't. That tells me a lot about what they're trying to do with the OQ/LL relationship.

[apinknightmare]

One thing that struck me, thinking back on Laurel hiding Sara's death from Quentin. Why did they give him heart trouble at all? We'd been shown previously that he fell into the bottle after Sara died the first time and was an absolutely mean drunk and his life went to shit. They reiterated that last night. If they weren't going to have him keel over from a coronary right when she told him, why didn't they just have her be scared that he was going to relapse? She herself is an addict and she's been through it - hell, we even got a brief moment of her considering drinking in Sara IIRC. Why didn't they just have her be afraid that he'd fall back in that pit and not be able to get out like he did the last time? i still wouldn't have thought it was okay for her to keep it from him, but...that seems like a much better reason than being worried he was going to have a heart attack.  

[quarks]

Screentime:

 

« the return »

Oliver: 33mins, 9secs
Laurel: 7mins, 17secs
Diggle: 0mins, 40secs
Thea: 19mins, 21secs
Felicity: 0mins, 46secs
Roy: 0mins, 0secs
Malcolm: 1min, 38secs
Quentin: 4mins, 25secs

 

« season totals (so far) »

Oliver: 5hours, 3mins, 58secs
Laurel: 1hour, 56mins, 53secs
Diggle: 1hour, 51mins, 34secs
Thea: 1hour, 17mins, 57secs
Felicity: 2hours, 31mins, 19secs
Roy: 1hour, 57mins, 11secs
Malcolm: 43mins, 48secs
Quentin: 32mins 41secs

 

(Source: http://forgingfire.tumblr.com/post/111451457514/the-return-oliver-33mins-9secs-laurel)  

 

Totals do not include the Flash crossover episodes, which add to Oliver, Felicity and Diggle's screentime.

 

Laurel is still behind Oliver, Felicity and Roy for screentime; Thea, after one episode, is catching up, and Quentin, even after this episode, barely seems to be on the show :(

[foreverevolving]

Forget the biometric.. Let's talk about how there was a (very clearly Microsoft operated) touch screen tablet at the queen manor? I know a few existed before the iPad(i think HP already had a huge ass touchscreen computer than), but i also know they were all semi failures and expensive (though i guess for the queens that wouldn't be an issue, but still..)

Am I missing something?

[apinknightmare]

Forget the biometric.. Let's talk about how there was a (very clearly Microsoft operated) touch screen tablet at the queen manor? I know a few existed before the iPad(i think HP already had a huge ass touchscreen computer than), but i also know they were all semi failures and expensive (though i guess for the queens that wouldn't be an issue, but still..)

Am I missing something?

 

Probably a QC prototype or something.

[kismet]

Fighting off a cold or sinus thing that is really messing with my energy right now... so just wanted to get my thoughts out on the show while I can. I really liked this episode!

 

Oliver/Thea - Loved their time together. Really like their dynamic... The sibling relationship is always one to explore. OQ is always over protective of Thea, but I think thats an older bro thing, in this ep you could see him beginning to realize that he sister is grown up. I hope their relationship continues to blossom, I hope that he can help her steer herself away from the darkness. Because at this point I see Thea going either really dark villain or hero. Im not quite sure her path is set right now. It would be great to see the love & trust that O&T have for each other  keep them from making bad decisions in the future. It would be nice to see them have some happiness. Loved her throwdown to MM, that was a long time coming buddy! Thank you for finally letting Thea know the truth!!

 

Maseo/Diggle - Both of them just don't get enough screen time. I love their one-liners that make scenes. Their bromances w/ OQ are just so great. Loved finally seeing Dig's brother... hopefully more to come on that line.

 

Laurel/Quentin - PB hands down owns every scene he's been in this season. That graveyard scene was the best. Its not the death of Sara that is causing him to question his sobriety its the betrayal of LL, who was his closest confidante & friend in recent years. That's the heartbreaking aspect of LL's lying. Yes, the death of Sara was tragic, but not telling Lance for as long as they did was inhumane. That was the part about the lying that always irritated me as well, I you really love him, ull tell him. The first few eps, I could forgive, but not by the end. Esp, when he was blatantly asking, its one thing to evade the truth its another thing to blatantly lie. I hope to see some emotional fall out from that betrayal linger for many episodes. I dont know how QL is going to forgive LL, its gonna take some time. It would be nice to see LL have some emotional growth as a result of her lies as well. Personally, I always found LL to be very self-centered & this ep was no different, but there were moments where I saw her actually put other people ahead of her, so that was nice. If she is really gonna be this great superhero, she needs to actually start putting others ahead of her & not just saying she does. Also loved that QL was the one that just dropped "black canary", no big pomp & circumstance. Thought it was a fitting end to her journey to wear the mask.

 

Tommy - Oh how I missed you!!! I love Tommy & I want him back on the show. It was so refreshing to have him there. Looking after Thea. Honoring his lost friend. Verbally sparring with QL. Making LL likeable & not shrewish. It was perfection through & through. Can we get him in more scenes? I don't care how, but someone in writers room needs to make it happen. He just brings an energy to the show. He makes it fun to watch, its not all dark & gloom when hes around.

 

Olicity - I know some people will like it. And I dont hate the scene, it was very adorable. But TBH, I dont think the FB scene w/ OQ seeing FS was necessary. And I don't necessarily like the potential for retconning that is produces. So OQ saw her before, does it change how or why he came back? IDK, it just seems a little hokey to me, that they put it in there. I also didn't like Felcity's lines, I thought it diminished her to having some silly crush again, and I thought they had moved beyond that. But it is what is is, it was nice to see OQ smile in FB for once, so there's that. Still think the strongest moment was when Slade mentioned her name. The way he said it to taunt OQ was just spot-on fantastic. The fact that it stopped OQ in his tracks & got a response from the stoic OQ to me speaks volumes.

 

Slade - Love him! Bring him back next season so he can keep his promises. MB has a great nebulous screen presence, every moment he snatches is golden.

 

So all in all, I think it was a strong show. It had great character elements, plot & script were decent. Some good one-liners in there. Seeing the island was nice again. Overall, I like the plots of the FB better this season, but I did miss seeing the island. Hopefully, this show marks "the return" of the arrow show that we all fell in love with.

[Chaser]

I'm confused again. Laurel became BC to avenge her sister, to honor her sister or because she was always going to be BC.

 

What was the point of Sara dying again?

[GirlWednesday]

Agree with all of you about the Olicity scene being nothing more than just "throwing the viewers" an olicity bone.  In the narrative, A DEAD PERSON accessed the system.  Felicity being Felicity could have dragged security up there, just being a total IT nerd. IT people put in all hours for projects so it would have made sense narratively. IT NERD DROPPING A FILE OFF ON MOIRA's DESK after hours - DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

 

Geez writers - can you please just try a little more? Security could have done their rounds and scoffed at Felicity and walked over to the elevators and waited for her to escort her back to IT floor. Leaving Felicity to walk to Moira's desk, consider hacking Moira's computer to check if everything was ok and deciding against it, babbling and walking to the elevators. done and done.

 

I wanted to like the olicity scene but it didn't feel genuine at all.  

Edited February 19, 2015 by GirlWednesday

[looptab]

Does anyone have a pic or gif or something of Psycho!Oliver in the photo? :D

 

ETA: Honestly when she appeared I thought that was where they were going, that she would check the computers or something..ugh! 

But this expression alone was worth it:

Edited February 19, 2015 by looptab

[DrSpaceman10]

Does anyone have a pic or gif or something of Psycho!Oliver in the photo? :D

 

[looptab]

 Thank you! LOL That photo is hilarious

[BkWurm1]

Someone posted tis pic from S1E2 on SpoilerTV. They could really claim he was looking for the blonde girl in a ponytail and glasses if they choose to.

 

 

 

That was proto-Felicity. :D

 It's good to get that out of the way so there is no confusion in the future. 

 

Is it me, or does that girl look like she's wearing a wig?

Edited February 19, 2015 by BkWurm1

[jay741982]

Screentime:

 

« the return »

Oliver: 33mins, 9secs

Laurel: 7mins, 17secs

Diggle: 0mins, 40secs

Thea: 19mins, 21secs

Felicity: 0mins, 46secs

Roy: 0mins, 0secs

Malcolm: 1min, 38secs

Quentin: 4mins, 25secs

 

« season totals (so far) »

Oliver: 5hours, 3mins, 58secs

Laurel: 1hour, 56mins, 53secs

Diggle: 1hour, 51mins, 34secs

Thea: 1hour, 17mins, 57secs

Felicity: 2hours, 31mins, 19secs

Roy: 1hour, 57mins, 11secs

Malcolm: 43mins, 48secs

Quentin: 32mins 41secs

 

(Source: http://forgingfire.tumblr.com/post/111451457514/the-return-oliver-33mins-9secs-laurel)  

 

Totals do not include the Flash crossover episodes, which add to Oliver, Felicity and Diggle's screentime.

 

Laurel is still behind Oliver, Felicity and Roy for screentime; Thea, after one episode, is catching up, and Quentin, even after this episode, barely seems to be on the show :(

That is Criminal that Roy and Laurel have more screen time than Diggle

Fighting off a cold or sinus thing that is really messing with my energy right now... so just wanted to get my thoughts out on the show while I can. I really liked this episode!

 

Oliver/Thea - Loved their time together. Really like their dynamic... The sibling relationship is always one to explore. OQ is always over protective of Thea, but I think thats an older bro thing, in this ep you could see him beginning to realize that he sister is grown up. I hope their relationship continues to blossom, I hope that he can help her steer herself away from the darkness. Because at this point I see Thea going either really dark villain or hero. Im not quite sure her path is set right now. It would be great to see the love & trust that O&T have for each other  keep them from making bad decisions in the future. It would be nice to see them have some happiness. Loved her throwdown to MM, that was a long time coming buddy! Thank you for finally letting Thea know the truth!!

 

Maseo/Diggle - Both of them just don't get enough screen time. I love their one-liners that make scenes. Their bromances w/ OQ are just so great. Loved finally seeing Dig's brother... hopefully more to come on that line.

 

Laurel/Quentin - PB hands down owns every scene he's been in this season. That graveyard scene was the best. Its not the death of Sara that is causing him to question his sobriety its the betrayal of LL, who was his closest confidante & friend in recent years. That's the heartbreaking aspect of LL's lying. Yes, the death of Sara was tragic, but not telling Lance for as long as they did was inhumane. That was the part about the lying that always irritated me as well, I you really love him, ull tell him. The first few eps, I could forgive, but not by the end. Esp, when he was blatantly asking, its one thing to evade the truth its another thing to blatantly lie. I hope to see some emotional fall out from that betrayal linger for many episodes. I dont know how QL is going to forgive LL, its gonna take some time. It would be nice to see LL have some emotional growth as a result of her lies as well. Personally, I always found LL to be very self-centered & this ep was no different, but there were moments where I saw her actually put other people ahead of her, so that was nice. If she is really gonna be this great superhero, she needs to actually start putting others ahead of her & not just saying she does. Also loved that QL was the one that just dropped "black canary", no big pomp & circumstance. Thought it was a fitting end to her journey to wear the mask.

 

Tommy - Oh how I missed you!!! I love Tommy & I want him back on the show. It was so refreshing to have him there. Looking after Thea. Honoring his lost friend. Verbally sparring with QL. Making LL likeable & not shrewish. It was perfection through & through. Can we get him in more scenes? I don't care how, but someone in writers room needs to make it happen. He just brings an energy to the show. He makes it fun to watch, its not all dark & gloom when hes around.

 

Olicity - I know some people will like it. And I dont hate the scene, it was very adorable. But TBH, I dont think the FB scene w/ OQ seeing FS was necessary. And I don't necessarily like the potential for retconning that is produces. So OQ saw her before, does it change how or why he came back? IDK, it just seems a little hokey to me, that they put it in there. I also didn't like Felcity's lines, I thought it diminished her to having some silly crush again, and I thought they had moved beyond that. But it is what is is, it was nice to see OQ smile in FB for once, so there's that. Still think the strongest moment was when Slade mentioned her name. The way he said it to taunt OQ was just spot-on fantastic. The fact that it stopped OQ in his tracks & got a response from the stoic OQ to me speaks volumes.

 

Slade - Love him! Bring him back next season so he can keep his promises. MB has a great nebulous screen presence, every moment he snatches is golden.

 

So all in all, I think it was a strong show. It had great character elements, plot & script were decent. Some good one-liners in there. Seeing the island was nice again. Overall, I like the plots of the FB better this season, but I did miss seeing the island. Hopefully, this show marks "the return" of the arrow show that we all fell in love with.

Felicity only had a silly crush BACK THEN

[looptab]

 It's good to get that out of the way so there's is no confusion in the future. 

 

Confusion about what?

[wingster55]

That is Criminal that Roy and Laurel have more screen time than Diggle

 

And anyone not named Oliver. 

[icandigit]

Not really mad about Laurel pouring out liquor for her dead homies. So many people have died and will die in the future to prop her up as BC. She had to pour out the whole bottle. Oliver and Thea were enough to make me love this ep. It's the relationship on the show that I'm most invested in. And causes me the most heartache. Get Speedy to the arrowcave stat. Willa's got this. Also, seeing Willa in that school uniform totally took me back to the mini cooper days for some reason.

Edited February 19, 2015 by icandigit

[poetgirl925]

Ugh, this episode was so… meh.

 

The main point of the episode seems to be Oliver coming full circle with his island experience. The island is clearly where he (eventually) decided he was a killer, and now the island is where he decided he’s not a killer. We have past Oliver (embracing the killer inside himself) paralleling present Oliver, who says he’s not a killer. The thing is though, isn’t that just a repeat of his realization from being back on the island between seasons 1 and 2? And if he knew he wasn’t going to regain that killer instinct then what was the point of taking Thea there? So that her crucible could parallel his? I don’t understand this at all, really. And that’s the problem I have with most of Arrow’s main plots – in order to believe in the overall journey, there’s a basic premise that I need to believe is true and infallible, and the writers suck hard at this part of the narrative.

 

I had a hard time believing in Laurel’s ‘crucible’ last season because I didn’t believe she really loved Tommy. If she did, why would she have jumped Oliver at literally the first opportunity? It didn’t help that the actress gave interviews wherein she said that Tommy took advantage of Laurel, or some such nonsense, while gushing about Laurel and Oliver as soulmates. So, it’s one or the other – either Laurel loved Tommy enough to have his death send her into a tailspin, or she didn’t. If he was her great love, I would have bought into it more, but based on the show’s narrative and the actress’ interviews, she didn’t love him like that. Therefore, her crucible was bullshit.

 

I had a hard time buying into Slade’s hatred for Oliver over Shado because in order to believe that, I needed to believe that he deeply loved Shado. Sure, the mirakuru explained some of his crazy, but not that aspect of the story. Did the narrative support Slade being in love with Shado? Nope – it came out of nowhere and the actor admitted as much in interviews. Because of that, the Slade storyline just fell to pieces in the back half of season 2. And if I don’t care about the human elements, I’m also not going to care about the badass fighting.

 

Now in season 3, it’s the same problem. In order to buy into Laurel’s crucible and hero journey this season, I need to believe there was some kind of ironclad sister bond between Laurel and Sara, and the writers never showed me that. They had a couple of nice moments in season 2, but then Laurel appeared perfectly happy to take Sara’s jacket and send her off on a boat (LOL, really?) with the same people who KIDNAPPED THEIR MOTHER. Are you kidding me? Honestly, most of the season showed their bond with Oliver more than with each other, and that was true even in the flashbacks, where they were sniping at each other over Oliver. So once again, Laurel’s crucible and journey come off as bullshit storytelling. And this Malcolm storyline makes no sense at all. None. In order to believe that Sara needed to die, and in order to care about this Ra’s showdown, I need to believe there was a point to having Malcolm brainwash Thea into killing Sara, and I just can’t figure out any logic to this situation. And I still don’t buy that Malcolm thought Oliver could beat Ra’s. Why would he believe that? So Sara’s death is still just as much bullshit as it was in The Calm, and Shado’s death is also bullshit. Both women were murdered to fuel storylines that make no sense because there was no proper narrative setup. If your premise is crap, eventually your story is crap. This is Storytelling 101. Maybe if I hadn’t studied creative writing and television writing, this wouldn’t infuriate me so much. I don’t know.

 

I guess if I can forget the bullshit storytelling, this episode wasn’t as bad as some of the others this season. Oliver and Thea were once again the MVPs of the episode, and I’m glad they’re spending time on Oliver’s family bond instead of having him sleep around like he did in previous seasons. It was nice to see Slade back because of Manu Bennett, even if I roll my eyes a bit over the Oliver/Slade friends to enemies origin story. Quentin telling Laurel off was FTW – she had that coming in spades. I also love this trend of breaking the 4th wall that seems to be going on lately:

 

“That disguise wouldn’t work even if you smeared greasepaint over your face.” Maseo echoing fans on fan boards.

 

Quentin calling Laurel a gold digger for always getting involved with rich asshats – also echoing fans on fan boards. 

 

“You knew even back then my life was already headed towards that mask.” – Laurel talking to the audience? Lmaoooo, what is this? A middle finger to fans, like “You should have known where this story was going because I’m Dinah Laurel Lance, and it’s comic canon, bitches!” Because I can assure Laurel that no one, including her father, ever ever ever saw her as the type to run around beating the hell out of people in the Glades. Lol, what an idiotic line. Not quite as bad as “I’m the justice you can’t run from!” but it’s a close second.

 

The show also continued their trend of retconning everything ever – they painted Laurel as a do-gooder in the pilot and the first season. They showed that she was burying herself in work back then because she was on a crusade to save people. Well, she didn’t seem much like a crusader here. Have they forgotten that I need to believe that she cared about CNRI and her work in the Glades enough to risk a whole bunch of people’s lives to save paperwork? They painted her as extremely angry and bitter, especially in the first few episodes, but she didn’t seem to be any of these things in this episode. Quentin was pretty much as I remembered him from season 1, but not Laurel. And really, I hate to say this, but what was the point of that Felicity scene other than further retconning the whole Oliver/Laurel star-crossed romance? I mean, the show did a really good job of that in season 2. I fully believe Oliver had stronger feelings for Shado and Sara than he ever had for Laurel tbh. The flashbacks only showed Laurel and Oliver as toxic. I mean, the Felicity scene was cute, and it added a light moment, but it was unnecessary and just further retconning. Oliver never mentioned having seen her before although I guess now they’ll say he chose to take that computer to her because he remembered her? This show makes my head hurt lol.

 

Oliver running all over Starling and not being recognized… gah! Queen Consolidated legit has the worst security ever. Anybody can wander right on in there, including the Count while holding a hostage and Oliver with his hood down. But my favorite part was when he walked into the very well-lit Queen Manor and proceeded to sit down and watch his father’s video, and NO ONE SAW HIM. A house that size must have staff, right? *sigh* I guess it’s nice that they finally explained his comments about how his father explained the list to him, but was anyone even wondering about that anymore since the list is done? The flashbacks just continue being pointless. The writers really need to get it together because this season is a mess. :-(

Edited February 19, 2015 by poetgirl925

[apinknightmare]

The Felicity thing was totally unnecessary, but I liked it. It seems like I'm in the minority about not thinking that it's a retcon of sorts. Why would Oliver remember her? It's not like he got up close and personal with her or even really saw her face. Yeah, the babble might have clued him in when he first "met" her, but who's to say he'd even remember what happened two+ years after the fact? It was five seconds in time right after he found out his dad left himself and Thea messages from beyond and thought he might get caught. He did god knows what for Waller after that, and then joined the Russian mafia. He was beyond preoccupied. Like...a five second blip where he overheard something that made him smile for a nanosecond? It doesn't change a thing for me. I don't think he remembers that and is somehow being untruthful for not telling her or that it means that he specifically went to her with his laptop because of it. She didn't even do anything in the clip that would lead him to believe she knew anything at all about computers. 

Edited February 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[lizonthefritz]

I think the pacing of this episode was good, showing that it would be better if they left some characters out of pretty much every episode. Of course next time I would much prefer it not to be Felicity and Diggle.

 

But now the writers have officially put Quentin on Prop patrol. Can't say I didn't see that one coming. I feel like this episode made past Quentin look shitty so present day Laurel can look like a sparkling diamond with regards to her lie. SMH

Honestly, I don't see it. Past Quentin was always shitty, we've been told this. The only difference is that this time we're shown it. I guess it just hits home harder when you actually see him acting like an ass? (I count it as acting like an ass more because I think his actions were entirely ruled by his blood alcohol level, not because what he said was necessarily untrue.)

 

My timeline may be off, but wasn't it Walter's desk at that point? If so, then Walter not only kept the Gambit model but also a framed picture of Oliver and Robert. Or did Moira always have a desk at QC even when she wasn't CEO?

 

Someone else mentioned that it was probably Moira's desk because Thea mentioned her working at QC (which I didn't really catch), but I'd say that it's actually Robert's desk, the entire office being left as a shrine to him and Moira just working around it. Otherwise, I just can't see a reason for Moira to keep a model of the Queen's Gambit. She may have added her own touches, though, because why would Robert keep a picture of just himself?

 

Laurel might be ruining this season for a lot of viewers here, but for me, it's Malcolm Merlyn.   I loathe him and his all knowing bullshit.  I loathe that smirk he's always wearing.  I loathe that he makes Ra's al Ghul incompetent.  I loathe that he makes Oliver so damn stupid.  For every bad decision he's made this season, he can pretty much draw a straight line to Malcolm Merlyn.  The character was appropriately menacing in season one, but his nine lives are ridiculous and insulting on a show that kills characters and keeps them dead.  Like Moira - CRUEL to give us a flashback episode featuring all things Queen and no Moira cameo...but back to Malcolm.  The character has run its course.  He was a good lesson for Oliver, the flipside of his own vigilante crusade.  John Barrowman is a fine actor but his actual character no longer advances the story and mostly creates gaping plot holes to shoehorn him into the bigger story.  Laurel-focused episodes are frustrating for other reasons, but they don't change the tone of the show.  Everything feels off when Malcolm is on screen, mostly because everyone's braincells melt in order to support his actions.  Time for the Magician/Dark Archer/Thea's dad to die for good.

YES. THIS SO MUCH. Laurel I can usually ignore and when she's actually involved in Oliver's plotlines, I usually take his side. Merlin, on the other hand, makes me side-eye Oliver so much this season. Nothing he's done concerning Malcolm this season has made any sense, considering what he knows about him. Or even what he knows about Ra's. Unless he's actually pretending to learn from Malcolm and intends to somehow get Malcolm to sacrifice himself to Ra's. But thematically it makes no sense to set up a battle between The Hero and a villain only to have a usurper come in at the last moment to win the day. Unless, of course, Ra's actually isn't this season's Big Bad.

 

Was it just my TV or was that some hideously bad green screening for the inside of the Queen mansion? I'm assuming they couldn't swing a one episode usage fee? Makes me a bit worried for future ATOM suit CGI. They don't seem to have these issues on The Flash. What gives?

If it was your TV, it was mine as well, because that was truly awful in places. But didn't I read somewhere that they tore down the Queen mansion set?

[Orion]

Ugh, this episode was so… meh.

 

The main point of the episode seems to be Oliver coming full circle with his island experience. The island is clearly where he (eventually) decided he was a killer, and now the island is where he decided he’s not a killer. We have past Oliver (embracing the killer inside himself) paralleling present Oliver, who says he’s not a killer. The thing is though, isn’t that just a repeat of his realization from being back on the island between seasons 1 and 2? And if he knew he wasn’t going to regain that killer instinct then what was the point of taking Thea there? So that her crucible could parallel his? I don’t understand this at all, really. And that’s the problem I have with most of Arrow’s main plots – in order to believe in the overall journey, there’s a basic premise that I need to believe is true and infallible, and the writers suck hard at this part of the narrative.

 

 

This so much. Watching this season of Arrow constantly makes me feel like I walked into a room with a comedian doing his act and I missed the set up and I'm only hearing the punch line.  The punchline is occasionally enough. I can think really hard and imagine what the set up should have been but at no point is half this stuff coming across in the story.

 

Just this episode alone I found myself watching the island scenes and instead of enjoying the story thinking, Oliver would never bring Thea to the island full of landmines, Oliver would never leave her alone without warning her, Oliver would never bring her to an island where Argus, who has a habit of kidnapping Queens and forcing them to work for them, runs the place, Oliver would never take the chance with her, his last remaining family member, in the same place Slade is, Thea would not be able to use her arm to hold a gun flat out or help with fighting Slade after Oliver dislocated it, and that doesn't even go into the basic WTF with no toilets and one guard that is the Argus prison. And while I'm thinking about all that I get pulled right out of the story.

 

I don't know if the writers just don't care about writing plot and are rushing from one thing to another to get to the action scenes or what is happening but this not how you tell a story. Simply saying, "Malcolm says" is not enough to convince me that any of this should be taking place. Malcom says,  "no prison can hold him." "Oh, okay well then that must be true." Malcolm says, "Ra's would hold Thea responsible for Sara's death."  "Sure, I don't think it is worth our time to give Nyssa a call and see how she feels about a woman being used by a man." Malcolm says, "we must go to the island to train."  "Sounds good. What time does the flight leave?"

 

Every single story plot has this problem: Laurel, Diggle, Felicity, Ray, Thea; every. one.

 

So I'm left sitting here wondering what the set up to things should have been instead of being able to enjoy the story. The longer this nonsense goes on the less the punchline is going to matter to me. Last year they did the same thing but managed to pull off the "joke" in the last three episodes, this year I don't see how that is going to happen.

[Shanna]

I thought the felicity thing was cute and not a retcon really, just a moment. I'm not going to worry about why she was delivering files in the evening - honestly despite best efforts most offices are not truly paperless so I can let that slide.

Oliver's hair was not the problem in the picture it was his expression!!! What on earth did they tell SA to think about when they made that? Hilarious.

It didn’t help that the actress gave interviews wherein she said that Tommy took advantage of Laurel

Seriously????? Wtf! If anything, laurel used tommy when she really wanted Oliver. I still enjoyed their scenes which is why they shouldn't have killed off tommy if they wanted to keep laurel interesting. Because season 2 was such a mess and this season is...this season.

[jay741982]

And anyone not named Oliver.

Oliver has the most as he should

[poetgirl925]

I think I read that particular "Tommy took advantage of Laurel" interview last year? I remember being royally pissed after reading it because I was still holding onto some residual anger over Laurel and Oliver literally screwing Tommy over before he died saving her dumb "can't be bothered to evacuate in an emergency" ass. She's entitled to her opinion, but I've been giving her interviews some major side-eye ever since because I often wonder what show she's watching. I'll add that Tommy IN NO WAY seemed to be taking advantage of Laurel's grief here. Smh

[KirkB]

Wait, what? Somebody said Tommy took advantage of Laurel? As in playing on her grief or something? While I have little doubt that was one of the tricks Tommy and Oliver both would pull back in the day to get a woman into bed it doesn't make sense here. Tommy was all playful banter and flirting yes, but Laurel was clearly flirting back. If anything, they were both using each other to get closer to their memories of Oliver, which...having typed that, sounds creepier than I intended. Actually, I thought those scenes made it look like Tommy may have liked Laurel first, stepping aside when Oliver showed an interest in her, and perhaps carrying a torch that reignited after Oliver 'died'.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I will post the interview that you guys are talking about in the News & Media thread, if anyone is interested.

[KenyaJ]

I also didn't like Felcity's lines, I thought it diminished her to having some silly crush again, and I thought they had moved beyond that. 

 

Several people have used the word "crush" in relation to Felicity's comment and it makes me bristle for some reason. She looked at a picture of a guy and thought he was cute. That doesn't constitute "crushing" on him, otherwise, I'd crush on every hot guy I ever saw in a magazine. Mileage varies, obviously, but for me, a throw-away comment from before she even knew Oliver doesn't reduce the feelings we know Felicity has for him now, and I don't think that was the writers' intent. 

 

Not really mad about Laurel pouring out liquor for her dead homies. So many people have died and will die in the future to prop her up as BC. 

 

Word. At this point, she needs to pour out a distillery for all the people who've had to die so she could become a "hero."

[FortKnox]

While I like Roy but, after this episode I wouldn't mind if they killed him off and had Thea take up fighting crime with Oliver using the Speedy name. Lord knows she's way more up for it then Laurel.

[BkWurm1]

It's good to get that out of the way so there's is no confusion in the future.

 

 

Confusion about what?

That Felicity is the true Felicity of the show and not just a placeholder until the real Felicity gets here.  A too subtle dig at Laurel. 

 

The Felicity thing was totally unnecessary, but I liked it. It seems like I'm in the minority about not thinking that it's a retcon of sorts. Why would Oliver remember her? It's not like he got up close and personal with her or even really saw her face. Yeah, the babble might have clued him in when he first "met" her, but who's to say he'd even remember what happened two+ years after the fact? It was five seconds in time right after he found out his dad left himself and Thea messages from beyond and thought he might get caught. He did god knows what for Waller after that, and then joined the Russian mafia. He was beyond preoccupied. Like...a five second blip where he overheard something that made him smile for a nanosecond? It doesn't change a thing for me. I don't think he remembers that and is somehow being untruthful for not telling her or that it means that he specifically went to her with his laptop because of it. She didn't even do anything in the clip that would lead him to believe she knew anything at all about computers. 

I don't think it hurts their first meet.  This wasn't a meeting.  She didn't see the real him and did he even see her face?  He heard a comment that made him smile.  I wouldn't think he gave it a second thought.  Just possibly he might have put two and two together after meeting her again but before?  Naw.

 

About Thea's speech to Malcolm...did it remind anyone else of what Felicity said to Oliver at the end of Uprising?  She didn't say she would keep working with him but she has been.  The only thing she rejected was his love and that's the same thing that Thea (though with stronger reasons) did to Malcolm. 

[Tangerine]

Between that photo on the desk and the terrible flashback hair, past Oliver really wasn't looking too good. The small smile on SA's part after hearing Felicity babble for the first time was fantastic though. It was subtle, but it spoke volumes.

 

I miss Tommy. I miss Tommy so darn much. I will settle for Zombie Tommy or even Clone Tommy if we have to.

 

Everything else was just dumb. Between the logic fails and the constant destruction of characters to make Laurel/BC happen, the bitterness is boiling over.

ETA: Stephen Amell and Willa Holland were amazing this episode, WH especially.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Tangerine

[kismet]

Felicity only had a silly crush BACK THEN

 

Several people have used the word "crush" in relation to Felicity's comment and it makes me bristle for some reason. She looked at a picture of a guy and thought he was cute. That doesn't constitute "crushing" on him, otherwise, I'd crush on every hot guy I ever saw in a magazine. Mileage varies, obviously, but for me, a throw-away comment from before she even knew Oliver doesn't reduce the feelings we know Felicity has for him now, and I don't think that was the writers' intent.

I guess my point was really if you're gonna give someone a 46 sec spot that will "break the internet", they could have made the script a little better. I love babbling Felicity, but there was something in the way she delivered the line that seemed like it was putting Felicity back in a silly female role. It could have been the way she responded to herself, that she needed to stop talking to herself. I just like babbling Felicity when she owns it. Maybe its all the stuff that has been thrown at her for being too emotional or acting too much like a girl, that to have her look at this horrible picture and say oh you're "cute". It just made her look less badass and more school girl crush. Which isnt horrible, I guess I would have liked more sarcastic but sweet reaction like others have mentioned. Like you're cute, but oh that hair. Or something that made her character seem less flakey or like every other girl that seemed to think OQ was cute or liked him for his appearance. I just think the writers could have put a few more minutes into writing that line of dialogue and it would have been better. But the whole point was OQ's smile, which was adorable and I did enjoy that. I just think it amounted to a throwaway scene/dialogue which after the hype, I had hoped to get something better. 

[BkWurm1]

I just think the writers could have put a few more minutes into writing that line of dialogue and it would have been better. But the whole point was OQ's smile, which was adorable and I did enjoy that. I just think it amounted to a throwaway scene/dialogue which after the hype, I had hoped to get something better

 

It is and it isn't a throwaway.  The scene itself wasn't important but the presence of the scene and the distinct lack of a presence of any Oliver and Laurel stuff in the flash back makes the scene rather meaningful to me at least.  Hugely meaningful.  Like restored my faith in their end game meaningful.  I mean, hell, I wouldn't have been surprised or that worried if they had also included a Laurelver scene in the FB so that they didn't take the chance thrills me. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I didn't see the scene with Felicity and Oliver as retconning -- either their meeting or his relationship with Laurel. It was barely a minute and there was no actual interaction. There was a babbling girl who was kinda funny. He smiled/was amused. I really don't think the Fates whispered to him (and I'm saying this as an Olicity fan). I think that's pretty much it, despite Tumblr GIFS many, many attempts to make me believe there's a deeper meaning, LOL!

 

I really doubt Oliver would remember it after, what, another two years of pure hell for him. (Although somebody asked for a fluffy fic of Oliver remembering. If anyone finds a link to a fic about that, please do post it in the Clock Tower thread!)

 

Maybe if later on we get Oliver saying he remembers her that night or something, but I think for once Felicity's critics are correct -- that scene was pure fan service (and I'm perfectly fine with it). As was the inclusion of Diggle and his brother. There really was no place for both Diggle and Felicity in the flashbacks, but I think TPTB knew there would have been hell to pay if they didn't show Diggle and Felicity at all.

 

And that’s the problem I have with most of Arrow’s main plots – in order to believe in the overall journey, there’s a basic premise that I need to believe is true and infallible, and the writers suck hard at this part of the narrative.

 

I do agree with this part whole-heartedly, though. That was one of my biggest problems with the show during the back half of Season 2. That's my biggest problem right now (as well as the story structure). That was my problem with the Brick arc. I couldn't buy Laurel suiting up because Brick didn't seem a big enough menace for me to justify putting a mediocre fighter out there (and sidelining Diggle). Arrow has always had problems giving me a believable basis for what it wants to show on-screen. It doesn't seem to be getting any better at it. It's even worse this season.

Edited February 20, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Shanna]

One of the reasons I love felicity is that she is allowed to be openly appreciative of an attractive man. Especially one doing a salmon ladder. Yet, she is also allowed to be damn smart, and emotional, and a hero and a bitch with wifi. All at once. So i think her looking at a picture of a handsome serial killer ( seriously what was up with that picture??) and saying he's cute, sucks he's dead and babbling on back to her life worked for me.

Yes, neither the felicity nor the Diggle scenes were necessary for 'plot' (although I do think the introduction of Andy will be setting up later stuff). Of course, the plot was stupid so I don't really care about that. I enjoyed them and I think they fine.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Shanna

[quarks]

It is and it isn't a throwaway.  The scene itself wasn't important but the presence of the scene and the distinct lack of a presence of any Oliver and Laurel stuff in the flash back makes the scene rather meaningful to me at least.  Hugely meaningful.  Like restored my faith in their end game meaningful.  I mean, hell, I wouldn't have been surprised or that worried if they had also included a Laurelver scene in the FB so that they didn't take the chance thrills me. 

 

Yeah. I'd put the entire scene into the "mostly fanservice" drawer except for the fact that this was an episode where viewers were expecting to see longing glances from Oliver to Laurel, and at least some indication on Laurel's part that her feelings were still there. Instead we had Laurel choosing to move to San Francisco for entirely sensible reasons that had nothing to do with Oliver, or not wanting to stay in the city filled with memories of her sister and her boyfriend, but because it was an excellent job offer, and choosing to stay in Starling City largely because of conversations with her father.  And we got this Oliver/Felicity scene.

 

I think it was meant as another nail in the Oliver/Laurel coffin. I don't think it's going to be particularly effective - witness this forum - but I do think it was another attempt to try to convince viewers that really, no matter what happens with Oliver, Felicity and (sigh) Ray, Oliver and Laurel are not happening.