All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Dr.OO7 said:

Depending on the school, it might not be a requirement. I took it as an elective (although this show has never been big on realism as far as rotations go). 

Also, I guess it wouldn't be very interesting watching them spend their days assisting with autopsies, viewing slides, etc.

I think an episode where one of them is on rotation and somebody is brought to the ER and dies there and they work with the pathologist to figure out the cause of death could've been a lot more interesting than the umpteen episodes we got where Abby browbeat and bullied her patients into doing what she wanted.  I thought the pathologist on the show was a really interesting character and it would've been cool to see more of her, maybe see her teaching residents.

Ans, of course, you're right; there are only so many elective rotations you can do as a medical student and most students don't do path rotations unless they have a particular interest in that specialty.  Most med students, including myself, tend to gravitate towards electives with direct patient care.  And, of course, most of the med students we saw on this show spent about three quarters of their clinical rotations in the ER.  In real life, most med students do a month or so in the ER out of two years of clinical rotations and it is usually an elective, so some students don't even do that.

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Just finished season 11 last night. I really hope they don't spend too much time going forward on building Carter's new hospital wing. Early on in my career I worked for an engineering company and one of the big jobs we did was a major expansion of a local hospital (it was mostly a research wing). I worked mostly in the construction administration side, and I expect that however they show a hospital being built bis going to really annoy me.

We hear very little about the Carter Center until the very end of the show when it is being dedicated and then it is to get the cast together for a reunion centered around the opening.  There might've been a line or two about it along the way, I think we saw Carter and someone else from the cast standing watching the construction for a minute; but the actual ins and out of building the Joshua Carter Center happened offscreen.

Edited February 13, 2021 by doodlebug

[Kel Varnsen]

18 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

think an episode where one of them is on rotation and somebody is brought to the ER and dies there and they work with the pathologist to figure out the cause of death could've been a lot more interesting than the umpteen episodes we got where Abby browbeat and bullied her patients into doing what she wanted.  I thought the pathologist on the show was a really interesting character and it would've been cool to see more of her, maybe see her teaching residents.

I think it would have fit in nicely with Neela's don't know if I want to be a doctor or not, to have her work on patients that were already dead. Plus I think by that point CSI was probably kicking their ass in the ratings so they could have had an episode where Abby solves a murder.

 

19 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

We hear very little about the Carter Center until the very end of the show when it is being dedicated and then it is to get the cast together for a reunion centered around the opening.  There might've been a line or two about it along the way, I think we saw Carter and someone else from the cast standing watching the construction for a minute; but the actual ins and out of building the Joshua Carter Center happened offscreen.

Ok good to know. It is already frustrating to see them talk about trying to finalize the drawings and go to tender before they even have the funding completely locked in. Then it seemed like the next episode they already were well into construction. If they kept that kind of thing up I would probably be as annoyed as the medical professionals here.

[debraran]

10 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Just finished season 11 last night. I really hope they don't spend too much time going forward on building Carter's new hospital wing. Early on in my career I worked for an engineering company and one of the big jobs we did was a major expansion of a local hospital (it was mostly a research wing). I worked mostly in the construction administration side, and I expect that however they show a hospital being built bis going to really annoy me.

They really don't, it goes up overnight. ; )  I felt it was nice because you'll see in the end, it brings some old friends back (sadly not enough) but not much is said beyond a speech about why it was built and why the name.

[Hiyo]

If nothing else, worth it for the

Spoiler

Benton and Corday reunion.

 

[readster]

11 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 

We hear very little about the Carter Center until the very end of the show when it is being dedicated and then it is to get the cast together for a reunion centered around the opening.  There might've been a line or two about it along the way, I think we saw Carter and someone else from the cast standing watching the construction for a minute; but the actual ins and out of building the Joshua Carter Center happened offscreen.

It also felt like it too FOREVER to build the place. I've seen new hospitals go up in less time than the show. Especially, when they were paying for EVERYTHING to be built for it. Even if Carter said in the end: "I'll be fundraising for the rest of my life". I just wanted to go: "So, what? You lost money or did Kem drain money because 'life sucks for me now' during those four years?"

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think the Carter Center was going to be free care, and with their service for the underserved patients, and clinics, they would be like St. Jude, where they have a lot of donors, but always need more.  

[ShortyMac]

37 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think the Carter Center was going to be free care, and with their service for the underserved patients, and clinics, they would be like St. Jude, where they have a lot of donors, but always need more.  

Yes, medical and dental care for low income and homeless, including HIV/AIDS treatment. 

[Heathen]

4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think the Carter Center was going to be free care, and with their service for the underserved patients, and clinics, they would be like St. Jude, where they have a lot of donors, but always need more.  

Carter said to Lewis and Weaver in the finale that he'd be fundraising for the rest of his life. He did say at one point, seasons earlier, that his family foundation was covering all the construction costs. 

[readster]

15 hours ago, Heathen said:

Carter said to Lewis and Weaver in the finale that he'd be fundraising for the rest of his life. He did say at one point, seasons earlier, that his family foundation was covering all the construction costs. 

Right and why I pointed that out and the fact it took that MANY years from signing the contract to the final episode. I kind of went: "Ummm... in Chicago? That place be built in 2 years." 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, readster said:

Right and why I pointed that out and the fact it took that MANY years from signing the contract to the final episode. I kind of went: "Ummm... in Chicago? That place be built in 2 years." 

What is weird is how in season 11 it went from never hearing about the center, to all of the sudden Carter is meeting with Anspaugh and they are discussing options on the drawings. Then a couple episodes later he is meeting with Weaver, the drawings are pretty much ready for tender and he is agreeing to pay for the whole thing and set up an endowment to fund operations. Then by the end of the season they have apparently tendered the project signed a contractor and construction is well underway. So they can rush all of those steps (which take time) but actual construction takes 4 years?

As far as fund raising for the rest of your life that doesn't sound that bad. Being the chairman of the Carter Foundation probably pays pretty well. And you get to meet with rich people and go to fancy parties and charity events.

[readster]

56 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

What is weird is how in season 11 it went from never hearing about the center, to all of the sudden Carter is meeting with Anspaugh and they are discussing options on the drawings. Then a couple episodes later he is meeting with Weaver, the drawings are pretty much ready for tender and he is agreeing to pay for the whole thing and set up an endowment to fund operations. Then by the end of the season they have apparently tendered the project signed a contractor and construction is well underway. So they can rush all of those steps (which take time) but actual construction takes 4 years?

As far as fund raising for the rest of your life that doesn't sound that bad. Being the chairman of the Carter Foundation probably pays pretty well. And you get to meet with rich people and go to fancy parties and charity events.

That's why I called false on the entire thing. It would have taken UP to almost three years to get everything set in stone and then at the most two years to build. Instead they rushed through things in less than 4 months and then take 4 years to finish thing. Honestly throw away lines such as: the economy change, change in administration, ect would have held up much, much more. Instead of: "Well, we forgot about it until the final season and see how heartbreaking it is that it's named after Carter's dead son and Kem is still in deep depression. Isn't that great television?"

[Heathen]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

What is weird is how in season 11 it went from never hearing about the center, to all of the sudden Carter is meeting with Anspaugh and they are discussing options on the drawings. Then a couple episodes later he is meeting with Weaver, the drawings are pretty much ready for tender and he is agreeing to pay for the whole thing and set up an endowment to fund operations. Then by the end of the season they have apparently tendered the project signed a contractor and construction is well underway. So they can rush all of those steps (which take time) but actual construction takes 4 years?

As far as fund raising for the rest of your life that doesn't sound that bad. Being the chairman of the Carter Foundation probably pays pretty well. And you get to meet with rich people and go to fancy parties and charity events.

None of which Carter was interested in. He made it clear, over the course of nearly the entire series, that he didn't want the life of John Carter, Rich Man. He wanted to just be John Carter, MD. That was one of the big conflicts between him and Gamma. 

Speaking from personal experience (cat rescue), fundraising sucks. 

As far as the timeline goes, Uncle Jesse went from paramedic one week to intern the next to doing thoracotomies by himself a few months later, all the while looking like he just got off a three-day bender. Why would the Carter Center's timeline be any more realistic? 

[doodlebug]

15 hours ago, Heathen said:

None of which Carter was interested in. He made it clear, over the course of nearly the entire series, that he didn't want the life of John Carter, Rich Man. He wanted to just be John Carter, MD. That was one of the big conflicts between him and Gamma. 

Speaking from personal experience (cat rescue), fundraising sucks. 

As far as the timeline goes, Uncle Jesse went from paramedic one week to intern the next to doing thoracotomies by himself a few months later, all the while looking like he just got off a three-day bender. Why would the Carter Center's timeline be any more realistic? 

However, Carter mainly seemed to be uninterested in the projects the Carter Center was funding.  It seemed like Gamma's major focus was on the arts.  Carter shifted that focus to medical care once he took over.  Once the charity became something he was passionate about, I expect Carter's interest in schmoozing the rich for money to fund his pride and joy grew demonstrably.  He was willing to do what it took to fund HIS dream, I'd imagine.

You missed the part where Uncle Jesse was involved in a trauma and nearly lost his leg, but apparently, the surgery, recovery and rehab all took place over a long weekend so he didn't miss a beat in med school.  Or, how Uncle Jesse managed to get into medical school in the first place despite being functionally illiterate.

There were many things in this show that rang very true to me as a physician, but, like every other medical show out there, about 90% of it was baloney.  Well acted, sometimes well written; but baloney nonetheless.

Edited February 15, 2021 by doodlebug

[txhorns79]

On 2/14/2021 at 11:42 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

 

As far as fund raising for the rest of your life that doesn't sound that bad. Being the chairman of the Carter Foundation probably pays pretty well. And you get to meet with rich people and go to fancy parties and charity events.

For all of Carter's protests about fundraising, if I remember correctly, he essentially bankrupted the foundation to build the Carter Center.  I think he makes a comment in the final episode about the place only having a year of funding, so he'll need to do a lot of fundraising to keep it open. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 3/1/2021 at 5:10 PM, txhorns79 said:

For all of Carter's protests about fundraising, if I remember correctly, he essentially bankrupted the foundation to build the Carter Center.  I think he makes a comment in the final episode about the place only having a year of funding, so he'll need to do a lot of fundraising to keep it open. 

In the season 11 episode where he meets with Weaver he says he didn't like the idea or corporate sponsorship so the foundation would pay for all the construction costs. He said they would also set up an endowment to pay for the operation costs. Endowment to me means a self sustaining thing. So did he overestimate how much money the Carter Foundation had or did he underestimate hospital operation costs?

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

In the season 11 episode where he meets with Weaver he says he didn't like the idea or corporate sponsorship so the foundation would pay for all the construction costs. He said they would also set up an endowment to pay for the operation costs. Endowment to me means a self sustaining thing. So did he overestimate how much money the Carter Foundation had or did he underestimate hospital operation costs?

It could be a few things.  For example, investments could have gone bad, costs for the construction of the building could have spiraled, etc.  I just presume he was a poor steward of the Foundation.  He had his pet project, and didn't really care about anything else.  I do recall the episode you are referencing, and it would a little amusing that for all of Carter's grandiose talk about not accepting corporate funding, he ends up having to accept it.      

[doodlebug]

43 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

It could be a few things.  For example, investments could have gone bad, costs for the construction of the building could have spiraled, etc.  I just presume he was a poor steward of the Foundation.  He had his pet project, and didn't really care about anything else.  I do recall the episode you are referencing, and it would a little amusing that for all of Carter's grandiose talk about not accepting corporate funding, he ends up having to accept it.      

Unfortunately, I think the most likely explanation was that the writers in the later seasons were terrible at continuity.  Whoever wrote the first episode wanted to make Carter’s motives absolutely pure and above reproach; so the Carter Foundation would cover all costs so as not to sully the project with filthy corporate money.  Then, the writer of the second episode wanted to be sure we knew that Carter wasn’t just funding  the Carter Center; he was going to be intimately involved and active in continuing its mission.  He wasn’t just giving his money, he was giving his own time and effort. Those of us who remembered how much Carter disliked fundraisers would also realize just how much this project meant to him.  Whoever was in charge of continuity dropped the ball just as Carter’s sister in Switzerland and his father being named Roland got swept away over the years.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Unfortunately, I think the most likely explanation was that the writers in the later seasons were terrible at continuity.  Whoever wrote the first episode wanted to make Carter’s motives absolutely pure and above reproach; so the Carter Foundation would cover all costs so as not to sully the project with filthy corporate money.  Then, the writer of the second episode wanted to be sure we knew that Carter wasn’t just funding  the Carter Center; he was going to be intimately involved and active in continuing its mission.  He wasn’t just giving his money, he was giving his own time and effort. Those of us who remembered how much Carter disliked fundraisers would also realize just how much this project meant to him.  Whoever was in charge of continuity dropped the ball just as Carter’s sister in Switzerland and his father being named Roland got swept away over the years.

I agree, they started OK but continuity got worse. I also remember Ross had a kid mentioned twice and a pic you could catch in his locker (if not his child, whose?)  Carter might hate fundraising but he surely had enough practice but that doesn't make him good at it. I would have loved a special later, maybe someone getting married or other event. Fans would tune in for a 2 hour movie especially if within 10 years. Hey I'd do it now to watch Doug's twins get married but so many were killed off it made it a mute point.

I don't use Instagram but a friend pointed out Noah's ER pics he puts in (old Polaroids it seems) and some really cute pics of him as a child ; )

https://www.instagram.com/therealnoahwyle/?hl=en

Edited March 3, 2021 by debraran

[Mr. Haney]

On 11/30/2020 at 8:08 PM, doodlebug said:

I'm an OB/GYN, practicing in a midwestern city at a large hospital, I actually worked for the county hospital system back in the late 80's-early 90's, just before ER debuted.  At any big teaching hospital, even back then, there would've been at least a couple of OB residents present 24/7 as well as at least one attending on site.  Most of the time, there would've been 2 or 3 attendings hanging around waiting for someone to deliver who would've been more than happy to cover for Coburn on the delivery. So, no, Susan wouldn't have been the only one available to deliver her niece.  For that matter, Kerry's insistence on delivering Carol's first twin in the ER instead of rushing her up to labor and delivery wouldn't have happened either.  And there is absolutely no way on God's green earth that Mark would've been left alone to manage and deliver an eclamptic patient despite repeated calls for help over many, many hours. There was nobody in labor on L&D in worse shape than Jody, in real life, Mark would've pushed her bed up to the birthing unit himself rather than allow the OB's to ignore her like he did.

I worked as a PCT and later as an LPN in various units (including the ED) in a non-teaching hospital for almost 22 years and I never heard of a birth in our ED.  If a patient in active labor arrived via ambulance at the ED entrance she was almost always greeted by a transporter who quickly wheeled her to L&D.  There was always adequate L&D call coverage to handle patients at any time of day.  I can't help but smirk when I see ER physicians like Greene, Lewis, and Weaver delivering babies because no hospital (with the exception of a rural CAH) could be that unprepared for deliveries.

[Birdie]

So, I have “All in the Family” on Pop going kinda in the background as I work on school stuff before my first class of the day. I do like this episode in addition to “Be Still My Heart” (though in that episode Abby had barely arrived on the scene and was already showing she “knew more” than everyone else when she was arguing with Carter about doing heroic measures for that old woman even though the patient didn’t want it). 

But these episodes will always signal when the series started to wane with me, and the magic I felt among the cast and stories told was ebbing.  I’ve seen the series all the way through already (probably a couple of times), and it’s always these episodes where I begin to get a bit sad for “earlier times.” Because these episodes signal, for me, the Era of Abby is imminent. 🙄

McCrane, Innes, and Kingston acted the hell out of this episode though. It still gets me with the scene with Corday and Romano and nurse Kit when Lucy is having the PE. And Weaver starting the ball rolling by finding them. And I’m not a Benton fan (arrogance, way he treated women - Jeannie especially sometimes), but him charging down the stairs, slamming into the cop to get to the trauma room to Carter hits as well.

But, if the series “went downhill” or “lost its mojo” for y’all, at what point was it? Just curious.

[Mr. Haney]

1 hour ago, Birdie said:

So, I have “All in the Family” on Pop going kinda in the background as I work on school stuff before my first class of the day. I do like this episode in addition to “Be Still My Heart” (though in that episode Abby had barely arrived on the scene and was already showing she “knew more” than everyone else when she was arguing with Carter about doing heroic measures for that old woman even though the patient didn’t want it). 

But these episodes will always signal when the series started to wane with me, and the magic I felt among the cast and stories told was ebbing.  I’ve seen the series all the way through already (probably a couple of times), and it’s always these episodes where I begin to get a bit sad for “earlier times.” Because these episodes signal, for me, the Era of Abby is imminent. 🙄

McCrane, Innes, and Kingston acted the hell out of this episode though. It still gets me with the scene with Corday and Romano and nurse Kit when Lucy is having the PE. And Weaver starting the ball rolling by finding them. And I’m not a Benton fan (arrogance, way he treated women - Jeannie especially sometimes), but him charging down the stairs, slamming into the cop to get to the trauma room to Carter hits as well.

But, if the series “went downhill” or “lost its mojo” for y’all, at what point was it? Just curious.

For me, the series started to lose its mojo after Anthony Edwards left the show.  And then after Alex Kingston and Paul McCrane left the series it just wasn't the same.  They just introduced too many characters like Victor Clemente, Archie Morris, Ray Barrett, and Tony Gates that really didn't interest me at all.  And yes, there was too much Abby.   I did like Michael Gallant and to me "The Gallant Hero And The Tragic Victor" was the last great episode of the series.  Everything after that is kind of a haze to me.

Speaking of "Be Still My Heart," it contained one of the saddest scenes in the series when the young boy (played by Anton Yelchin) tries to comfort his deceased mom after both his parents were killed in a car accident.  Sadly, Anton Yelchin himself would be killed in a weird car accident just as his career was taking off. 

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, Mr. Haney said:

For me, the series started to lose its mojo after Anthony Edwards left the show.  And then after Alex Kingston and Paul McCrane left the series it just wasn't the same.  They just introduced too many characters like Victor Clemente, Archie Morris, Ray Barrett, and Tony Gates that really didn't interest me at all.  And yes, there was too much Abby.   I did like Michael Gallant and to me "The Gallant Hero And The Tragic Victor" was the last great episode of the series.  Everything after that is kind of a haze to me.

Speaking of "Be Still My Heart," it contained one of the saddest scenes in the series when the young boy (played by Anton Yelchin) tries to comfort his deceased mom after both his parents were killed in a car accident.  Sadly, Anton Yelchin himself would be killed in a weird car accident just as his career was taking off. 

Laura Innes directed 'Be Still My Heart' and did a beautiful job.  I loved the shot of the little girl on her tiptoes trying to peer into the trauma room where they were trying to save her mother.

[ch1]

8 hours ago, Mr. Haney said:

Speaking of "Be Still My Heart," it contained one of the saddest scenes in the series when the young boy (played by Anton Yelchin) tries to comfort his deceased mom after both his parents were killed in a car accident.  Sadly, Anton Yelchin himself would be killed in a weird car accident just as his career was taking off. 

What gets me about this scene is his broken “mom” when lays his head on her chest.  Gah, it makes me tear up thinking about it.

I think the show lost its mojo with the start of season 7.  For me that is when ER went downhill (although I do like season 8 but I think that is the last season I enjoyed.)

Edited March 11, 2021 by ch1

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think when Clooney and Edwards left, there was a big shift in the quality of stories.     After Carter and Lucy's stabbing, it really started slipping into pure soap opera story lines. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 3/10/2021 at 9:15 AM, Birdie said:

But, if the series “went downhill” or “lost its mojo” for y’all, at what point was it? Just curious.

For me, it started in Season 5, which was pretty dreadful all around, not the least of which was the terrible way they wrote Doug out. Then after Season 6--which, to be fair, was much better--when Carol was gone. I've come to realize that this is an unpopular opinion here, but they were my favorite characters and although the show wasn't necessarily bad, I simply didn't enjoy it without them and from then on kept watching only out of habit. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Dr.OO7

[Danny Franks]

4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think when Clooney and Edwards left, there was a big shift in the quality of stories.     After Carter and Lucy's stabbing, it really started slipping into pure soap opera story lines. 

I think it definitely happened before Edwards left.

It was a bit of a rollercoaster really. The first three seasons were excellent, mostly fantastic television. Season four was really good but five was a let down (the focus on Lucy didn't help). Seasons six and seven were better, but then it just got worse and worse after that.

Honestly, and I know I harp on about her a lot, the departure of Susan Lewis was a big turning point for the show that a lot of people overlook. She was the first regular to leave and she did leave a big hole that wasn't adequately filled. She just had really nice character dynamics with the rest of the cast - best friends with Mark, caring mentor to Carter, antagonist to Weaver and mischievous kids with Doug.

Of all the characters added to the show over the years, I don't think any of them were as good as the original cast - Kerry was never a favourite of mine but she did become an important character. Anna was there for a year. Elizabeth started strong but turning into a shrieking harridan when she married Mark. Abby was, of course, a massive black hole of misery and navel-gazing self-concern. Everyone else just seemed like a watered down re-tread of the original characters.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Danny Franks

[Gigi43]

The first eight seasons are one show and the rest are like a spin-off to me. And not because I think the show was trash without Mark or anything, they could have been just fine if they actually wrote stories and good characters instead of getting helicopters, tanks, and increasingly outrageous stunts (the greatness of Be Still My Heart/All In The Family, is a psyche patient hurting a doctor is on this side of 'something that could happen, especially on tv', a doctor having a helicopter drop on him, no.) Quality declined absolutely but there's something about the first eight that just feels complete. It could have ended with Mark dying and a final message that they ended with anyway of "doctors come and go but the ER goes on" and I don't think we'd miss much. Chen, Susan, and Carter were still in the ER but with getting rid of Mark and Benton in season eight, that wrapped up Mark, Benton, Doug and Carol in terms of major season 1 characters, it would have even told a complete story for Carter in terms his career, moving him up to the new Mark-figure of the ER, without sticking him with gamma's funeral being a disrespected, a dead baby and cold (ex)wife. 

 

Over all I'd say the dip in quality was in season 5 but even though 6-8 had their fair share of problems, I still put them in the plus category of watchable episodes (and outstanding episodes along the way.) There are seasons of the later years I still haven't seen every episode of, nor will I ever.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Gigi43

[Dr.OO7]

On 3/14/2021 at 9:58 PM, Gigi43 said:

There are seasons of the later years I still haven't seen every episode of, nor will I ever.

There was a time when I didn't even want to miss REPEATS, I loved this show so much. I realized I wasn't enjoying it anymore when I didn't care about missing NEW episodes.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Dr.OO7

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

There was a time when I didn't even want to miss REPEATS, I loved this show so much. I realized I wasn't enjoying anymore when I didn't care about missing NEW episodes.

Yes, that happens with some show much, much earlier sadly. I am glad that I forced myself to watch through Hulu the entire show. I did see of course the Doug/Carol show and transplant because of the hype back then but so many with Archie and the rest I missed. I admit, I didn't miss much but there were some gems with Archie and although not a Stamos fan (on this show) there were a few others that weren't too bad. Having few commercials and the ability to FF through Abby or other fluff, helped and I'm glad I finished it.

[Birdie]

I have some questions about a couple of episodes recently shown. Maybe somebody can answer them.

1. Wouldn’t they know Mark never shocked Fossen given the readout of Fossen’s heart rhythm? I would think there would be a spike in the reading when he shocked him, but he shocked the air. Wouldn’t that not show anything on the reading, so Mark couldn’t lie his way out?

2. Luka “explains” Nicole’s kleptomania as her “inability to trust people.” Like, what? I think an overwhelming amount of people on earth can say they have trust issues, but they have no compulsion to steal. I admit I have no experience with psychology. Hoping to take an intro course this summer though.

3. Carter having to turn his grandmother into the DMV because of her recently diagnosed condition. Do doctors really have to do this in some instances? I am a Type 1 (juvenile) diabetic diagnosed at 11, and I just had to promise I’d check my blood glucose before every time I got behind the wheel (I wear a CGM which makes it easy). And I wear a medical bracelet. But is there a list or something doctors are aware of when they have to report a patient?

Sorry for all questions, but I know there are a variety of experienced people on the board that might help answering my curiosity.

 

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, Birdie said:

I have some questions about a couple of episodes recently shown. Maybe somebody can answer them.

1. Wouldn’t they know Mark never shocked Fossen given the readout of Fossen’s heart rhythm? I would think there would be a spike in the reading when he shocked him, but he shocked the air. Wouldn’t that not show anything on the reading, so Mark couldn’t lie his way out?

2. Luka “explains” Nicole’s kleptomania as her “inability to trust people.” Like, what? I think an overwhelming amount of people on earth can say they have trust issues, but they have no compulsion to steal. I admit I have no experience with psychology. Hoping to take an intro course this summer though.

3. Carter having to turn his grandmother into the DMV because of her recently diagnosed condition. Do doctors really have to do this in some instances? I am a Type 1 (juvenile) diabetic diagnosed at 11, and I just had to promise I’d check my blood glucose before every time I got behind the wheel (I wear a CGM which makes it easy). And I wear a medical bracelet. But is there a list or something doctors are aware of when they have to report a patient?

Sorry for all questions, but I know there are a variety of experienced people on the board that might help answering my curiosity.

 

All this was well after the show jumped the shark, but I can say for sure all states regulate driving privileges for people with certain medical conditions. Some states make it mandatory for doctors to report, some do not. For instance, the state of Illinois does not require doctors to report patients with epilepsy; California does. Illinois, surprisingly, doesn't even have a set period during which patients must be seizure-free before driving again. https://www.epilepsy.com/driving-laws/2008871

I have epilepsy, and this is something I've had to spend a lot of time thinking about. 

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, Birdie said:

I have some questions about a couple of episodes recently shown. Maybe somebody can answer them.

1. Wouldn’t they know Mark never shocked Fossen given the readout of Fossen’s heart rhythm? I would think there would be a spike in the reading when he shocked him, but he shocked the air. Wouldn’t that not show anything on the reading, so Mark couldn’t lie his way out?

2. Luka “explains” Nicole’s kleptomania as her “inability to trust people.” Like, what? I think an overwhelming amount of people on earth can say they have trust issues, but they have no compulsion to steal. I admit I have no experience with psychology. Hoping to take an intro course this summer though.

3. Carter having to turn his grandmother into the DMV because of her recently diagnosed condition. Do doctors really have to do this in some instances? I am a Type 1 (juvenile) diabetic diagnosed at 11, and I just had to promise I’d check my blood glucose before every time I got behind the wheel (I wear a CGM which makes it easy). And I wear a medical bracelet. But is there a list or something doctors are aware of when they have to report a patient?

Sorry for all questions, but I know there are a variety of experienced people on the board that might help answering my curiosity.

 

When the actual defibrillator is firing, there is an electrical spike seen on the EKG paper.  Since Mark did fire the device, albeit not while in contact with the patient; I think the spike would still appear on the strip, it would just look like the shock didn't work as the arrhythmia didn't correct.  However, I have never fired a defibrillator into the air, let alone checked the strip to see and I don't know anyone who has, either.

I have no idea what Luka is talking about when it comes to Nicole, but that is kind of the basis of their entire relationship.  She does awful things and he makes excuses for her.  See also: Luka's relationship with Abby and Carter's relationship with Abby,  Also, if you are a kleptomaniac, you're the one who cannot be trusted, not vice versa.  

In most states, a doctor is legally required to notify the BMV if a patient has a condition that might affect their ability to drive.  Anything that might cause sudden loss of consciousness would qualify.  Gamma had Shy Drager syndrome which would qualify, but Carter should not have been the attending physician on Gamma's case and it wouldn't be his responsibility.

[ShortyMac]

5 hours ago, Birdie said:

Luka “explains” Nicole’s kleptomania as her “inability to trust people.” Like, what? I think an overwhelming amount of people on earth can say they have trust issues, but they have no compulsion to steal. I admit I have no experience with psychology. Hoping to take an intro course this summer though.

If you don't trust people to help you or take care of you, I can see why someone would steal. If you feel alone, or, think it's everyone for themselves, you would do anything to survive or get ahead.

[debraran]

3 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

If you don't trust people to help you or take care of you, I can see why someone would steal. If you feel alone, or, think it's everyone for themselves, you would do anything to survive or get ahead.

I was curious, in a quick google, it is mentioned but not a top 3 reason. ER was pretty good at checking things out, at least early on. I think they would have liked to tailor back Carol's pills since she took enough to kill herself soundly before they changed their mind about her.

When theft is repetitive or is done without any remorse, guilt, or understanding of the impact, it can be a sign of other problems. These can include family trouble, mental health issues, or delinquency. Children who steal often have trouble making and keeping friends, have poor relationships with adults, or have issues with trust.

[RedbirdNelly]

on the DMV driving question--it varies by state. I have experience in MA, where  (at least several years ago) you can report your relative and the state will send them a letter requiring them to check with their doctor. If doctor says they are ok to drive, they can continue. If doctor says no or they need to be evaluated, they have to be retested. Some doctors will say the person is ok to drive unless they are taking drugs that make that impossible (that was my experience). (my grandmother got sicker and died before I had to consider next steps; asking her to stop even after multiple fender benders did not work). 

[WendyCR72]

On 11/7/2020 at 6:54 AM, debraran said:

I guess this group will always be my fav. Pic from Julianna

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-zyasVn9Zm/?utm_source=ig_embed

Yep.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Made an account here last year but only posting now. I’m on S14 (around the time of Abby’s relapse; I’ve gotten through Blackout and Coming Home) and the show definitely has gotten harder to stick with. When I watched originally I lost interest after Mark died, but I know for sure I’ll never do another full rewatch once I’m done with this. Maybe seasons 1-8 and then select episodes from 9-15.

The later seasons just feel like a caricature or a long, drawn out bad SNL skit:

-Romano being killed by helicopter was my “jump the shark” moment.

-Abby’s drunk ass brother falling into Gamma’s grave and Abby half-assedly apologizing to Carter and pretending to have no idea her brother would behave that badly. It’s like she couldn’t grasp that the day wasn’t about her and her crazy family. It was about CARTER. FFS. She shouldn’t have even gone to the funeral if her brother was such an emergency. 

-I will never again watch the Africa episodes.

-Why is Sam’s kid running around the ER so much? I work in a very non-ER like job that (before COVID) was in a fairly laid back, casual office. Even given that, people didn’t bring their kids to roam the office and bother employees. Why is it OK in a trauma ER? I get it’s TV but come on. 

-Neela working at the Jumbo Mart and somehow getting into a residency spot at County when it seemed like the deadline and opportunity was long past for that. (I have no idea if Neela getting lucky and securing a residency after she bailed on another program after four minutes would have happened in real life, but even for me not working in medicine, it just seemed far fetched.) 

-I did like Susan on both her tours since unlike Abby, she seemed like she could at least be professional even though she had a chaotic personal life. I didn’t like the Third Watch crossover with Chloe, though. 

-I’m starting to understand why so many fans feel no one was happy post-Mark’s death. I’m going back watching YouTube clips to refresh my memory and reading plot summaries and I’m agreeing with that now. 

From the early years, Exodus is one of my favorite episodes (Chicago Med did a chemical spill episode and I remember thinking Exodus was still far superior), and I liked The Storm two-parter with Doug’s exit. Of course, Be Still My Heart and All in the Family still being strong emotions...I was near tears when I rewatched AitF. Peter and Elizabeth were a great couple that I appreciated way more on my rewatch. I liked Mark and Lizzie as a couple too and wish the show hadn’t stuck them with so much misery.  I just want to disclaim that I do not like Abby at all (except for a few moments in her tenure on the show), and though I was open to trying to when I rewatched, she just doesn’t work for me. Doodlebug is my Abby-loathing board soulmate. 🙂 

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Made an account here last year but only posting now. I’m on S14 (around the time of Abby’s relapse; I’ve gotten through Blackout and Coming Home) and the show definitely has gotten harder to stick with. When I watched originally I lost interest after Mark died, but I know for sure I’ll never do another full rewatch once I’m done with this. Maybe seasons 1-8 and then select episodes from 9-15.

The later seasons just feel like a caricature or a long, drawn out bad SNL skit:

-Romano being killed by helicopter was my “jump the shark” moment.

-Abby’s drunk ass brother falling into Gamma’s grave and Abby half-assedly apologizing to Carter and pretending to have no idea her brother would behave that badly. It’s like she couldn’t grasp that the day wasn’t about her and her crazy family. It was about CARTER. FFS. She shouldn’t have even gone to the funeral if her brother was such an emergency. 

-I will never again watch the Africa episodes.

-Why is Sam’s kid running around the ER so much? I work in a very non-ER like job that (before COVID) was in a fairly laid back, casual office. Even given that, people didn’t bring their kids to roam the office and bother employees. Why is it OK in a trauma ER? I get it’s TV but come on. 

-Neela working at the Jumbo Mart and somehow getting into a residency spot at County when it seemed like the deadline and opportunity was long past for that. (I have no idea if Neela getting lucky and securing a residency after she bailed on another program after four minutes would have happened in real life, but even for me not working in medicine, it just seemed far fetched.) 

-I did like Susan on both her tours since unlike Abby, she seemed like she could at least be professional even though she had a chaotic personal life. I didn’t like the Third Watch crossover with Chloe, though. 

-I’m starting to understand why so many fans feel no one was happy post-Mark’s death. I’m going back watching YouTube clips to refresh my memory and reading plot summaries and I’m agreeing with that now. 

From the early years, Exodus is one of my favorite episodes (Chicago Med did a chemical spill episode and I remember thinking Exodus was still far superior), and I liked The Storm two-parter with Doug’s exit. Of course, Be Still My Heart and All in the Family still being strong emotions...I was near tears when I rewatched AitF. Peter and Elizabeth were a great couple that I appreciated way more on my rewatch. I liked Mark and Lizzie as a couple too and wish the show hadn’t stuck them with so much misery.  I just want to disclaim that I do not like Abby at all (except for a few moments in her tenure on the show), and though I was open to trying to when I rewatched, she just doesn’t work for me. Doodlebug is my Abby-loathing board soulmate. 🙂 

I agree with all you wrote. I was so happy to watch it all on Hulu but never will again. I would do the same and pick and choose others after season 8. I  stopped except for spotty episodes after Mark died and Doug left. I did miss some gems but not too many. They took an A+ medical show and made it C/C- with some B+ episodes thrown in. Abby never grew on me and her brother was almost as bad a Sam's son. Sam was just crazy and I never could see Luka liking her.

The early shows are top notch and Carter and Benton and Romano and Mark, they all had great moments and touching shows. Why they threw that away with more sex and less substance and ludicrous plots, I don't know. Maybe they knew they could and fans would still watch but IDK.

Chicago Med is a bad soap and doesn't come close to ER. Oliver Platt is underused and given dribble most of the time. I stopped watching but remember one good show on a suicide he suspected with a distracted cell phone accident patient and never saw one that good again.

Edited April 3, 2021 by debraran

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I was open to trying to when I rewatched, she just doesn’t work for me. Doodlebug is my Abby-loathing board soulmate.

Hey, I despise Abby, too, as I have said much more than once here!  😛

[Cloud9Shopper]

7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hey, I despise Abby, too, as I have said much more than once here!  😛

Hey that makes three of us! 😆I’m sorry I missed you...I read a lot of posts to catch up and may have missed a few. I just watched Skye’s the Limit (14.9 on Hulu) and  Abby’s lip to Luka about how he must have had fun made my eyes roll into my head. My grandfather actually died of multiple myeloma (same cancer as Luka‘s dad) in 1999 and it was not a pleasant death from what I recall. I was only 14 when he was at his worst and have memories of him being in the ICU and being told he was going into hospice, albeit not much else since it was so long ago and I was young. At that age, I was a volunteer at the hospital he was in and my boss had told even us high school/junior high kids why people go to hospice. I knew what it meant when I found out he was going there.  Abby acting like Luka was on some vacation while dealing with his dad with terminal cancer was ridiculous. It was just like “but what about meeeeee????” 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Hey that makes three of us! 😆I’m sorry I missed you...I read a lot of posts to catch up and may have missed a few. I just watched Skye’s the Limit (14.9 on Hulu) and  Abby’s lip to Luka about how he must have had fun made my eyes roll into my head. My grandfather actually died of multiple myeloma (same cancer as Luka‘s dad) in 1999 and it was not a pleasant death from what I recall. I was only 14 when he was at his worst and have memories of him being in the ICU and being told he was going into hospice, albeit not much else since it was so long ago and I was young. At that age, I was a volunteer at the hospital he was in and my boss had told even us high school/junior high kids why people go to hospice. I knew what it meant when I found out he was going there.  Abby acting like Luka was on some vacation while dealing with his dad with terminal cancer was ridiculous. It was just like “but what about meeeeee????” 

That was Abby in a nutshell.  She loved being in a relationship as long as she was the focus of all attention.  When Carter's grandmother had the nerve to die just when she needed him to go gallivanting cross-country after her brother with her, well, the nerve of that woman!  Remember the look of utter disbelief on her face when Carter let her know he couldn't go with her?  Apparently, he'd forgotten about the wonderful time he had on that cross country trip with her to find her mother.  Then, she's got the nerve to stand there with her hand out, demanding Carter write a prescription for psych meds for her brother, who he'd never treated.  I've said before that Abby seemed to like to punish people who didn't live by her rules.  She tried to have her mother and brother locked up in psych wards against their will. Carter prioritized his family's needs over her and she brought her brother to his grandmother's funeral and mayhem ensued.  Luka had the nerve to go visit his dying father and she fell off the wagon and cheated on him.  She sure showed them!  So childish and so vindictive.

Edited April 4, 2021 by doodlebug

[Cloud9Shopper]

9 hours ago, doodlebug said:

That was Abby in a nutshell.  She loved being in a relationship as long as she was the focus of all attention.  When Carter's grandmother had the nerve to die just when she needed him to go gallivanting cross-country after her brother with her, well, the nerve of that woman!  Remember the look of utter disbelief on her face when Carter let her know he couldn't go with her?  Apparently, he'd forgotten about the wonderful time he had on that cross country trip with her to find her mother.  Then, she's got the nerve to stand there with her hand out, demanding Carter write a prescription for psych meds for her brother, who he'd never treated.  I've said before that Abby seemed to like to punish people who didn't live by her rules.  She tried to have her mother and brother locked up in psych wards against their will. Carter prioritized his family's needs over her and she brought her brother to his grandmother's funeral and mayhem ensued.  Luka had the nerve to go visit his dying father and she fell off the wagon and cheated on him.  She sure showed them!  So childish and so vindictive.

It amazes me that so many fans are so fond of Abby and act like she is mother and wife of the year, doctor of the year, friend of the year and someone whose presence everyone should be happy to be in. Why is there so much praise for her when she cheats on her husband, stays out until 3 am when she has a young child at home and doesn’t even contact her babysitter...yeah just blows the kid off to go partying and sleeping with her boss. What a charmer. Like if her kid wasn’t motivation for her to keep her life together then nothing can help her. Not to mention she lies to her AA sponsor and doesn’t even seem to appreciate her and won’t even take accountability with someone she’s known for years. Then her husband (who has had his own issues and fuck-ups even without an addiction) goes to browbeat said sponsor about her own life and act like Abby is the most amazing wife and mother and their marriage is so perfect and has it together when the sponsor is the adult here, NOT Abby and Luka. And yet even with all this so many fans still believe Abby is such a great person. Who would want to be friends with her in real life? Yet she is the most popular person in the ER, although I guess by S14 there were very few likable people left in the ER anyway and the show was a caricature of its former self. 

Usually in real life, people are quick to shame parents who let their drug and alcohol addictions get to the point where their kids watch them OD in a car, or drive drunk with the kid, or the kids end up being abandoned or beaten by the addict themselves or by partners. Yet in the ER-verse, Abby was seen as the best person ever even though she treated everyone like shit and endangered her child. She was so cruel to Neela in 300 Patients and slammed her about love when Neela’s husband DIED IN A WAR. 
 

I understand that everyone has flaws and that addiction can cause people to spiral out of control or act out of character. But even with an addict, I think there’s a line between making mistakes and struggling and just being someone who doesn’t care to get their life together. But with Abby, I wouldn’t see any of her actions as that of someone I’d be fond of even if she were totally sober when she did those things. Because even when she was sober she was a horrible person who couldn’t stay out of anyone’s business. (She agrees to sponsor Carter even after saying she barely keeps her own life together, and the viewers didn’t even know Maggie and Eric at that point. I don’t know anything about AA or NA but why would she agree to sponsor when she knew it wasn’t a good idea? Is this another example of how Abby knows everything and can fix everybody?) Poor Joe. Kid deserves better parents. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

It amazes me that so many fans are so fond of Abby and act like she is mother and wife of the year, doctor of the year, friend of the year and someone whose presence everyone should be happy to be in. Why is there so much praise for her when she cheats on her husband, stays out until 3 am when she has a young child at home and doesn’t even contact her babysitter...yeah just blows the kid off to go partying and sleeping with her boss. What a charmer. Like if her kid wasn’t motivation for her to keep her life together then nothing can help her. Not to mention she lies to her AA sponsor and doesn’t even seem to appreciate her and won’t even take accountability with someone she’s known for years. Then her husband (who has had his own issues and fuck-ups even without an addiction) goes to browbeat said sponsor about her own life and act like Abby is the most amazing wife and mother and their marriage is so perfect and has it together when the sponsor is the adult here, NOT Abby and Luka. And yet even with all this so many fans still believe Abby is such a great person. Who would want to be friends with her in real life? Yet she is the most popular person in the ER, although I guess by S14 there were very few likable people left in the ER anyway and the show was a caricature of its former self. 

Usually in real life, people are quick to shame parents who let their drug and alcohol addictions get to the point where their kids watch them OD in a car, or drive drunk with the kid, or the kids end up being abandoned or beaten by the addict themselves or by partners. Yet in the ER-verse, Abby was seen as the best person ever even though she treated everyone like shit and endangered her child. She was so cruel to Neela in 300 Patients and slammed her about love when Neela’s husband DIED IN A WAR. 
 

I understand that everyone has flaws and that addiction can cause people to spiral out of control or act out of character. But even with an addict, I think there’s a line between making mistakes and struggling and just being someone who doesn’t care to get their life together. But with Abby, I wouldn’t see any of her actions as that of someone I’d be fond of even if she were totally sober when she did those things. Because even when she was sober she was a horrible person who couldn’t stay out of anyone’s business. (She agrees to sponsor Carter even after saying she barely keeps her own life together, and the viewers didn’t even know Maggie and Eric at that point. I don’t know anything about AA or NA but why would she agree to sponsor when she knew it wasn’t a good idea? Is this another example of how Abby knows everything and can fix everybody?) Poor Joe. Kid deserves better parents. 

I recall back in the day, there were fans who thought it was absolutely reprehensible that Luka went to Croatia to help his dying father.  Didn't he realize Abby needed his help?  He hadn't seen his Dad in years, he didn't need to go just because he was dying. Because no parent ever in the history of the world held a full time job while handling a baby on their own while living in a luxury condo with plenty of money.  For all the annoyance that was Sam, she sure didn't pity herself or expect attention because she was a single mom struggling to take care of a kid on her own.  And she had far fewer resources than Abby.

Yes, Abby had some challenges in her life, but so did every other character on the show; but she was the one who was constantly excused for her bad behavior.

Edited April 4, 2021 by doodlebug

[Kel Varnsen]

We are on season 12 now, and it has been interesting that for seasons 1-10 we were watching most of the time 2 a night. Then for 11 it went to maybe 1 a night. And now for 12 it seems like one episode every few days.

16 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

) -I did like Susan on both her tours since unlike Abby, she seemed like she could at least be professional even though she had a chaotic personal life. I didn’t like the Third Watch crossover with Chloe,

🙂

I liked Susan a lot but was there a main character that the writers cared less about especially when she came back. They could not find something interesting for her to do. Plus every other female main character who had a baby got the giving birth episode. Susan gets an episode where she is put on bed rest then the next season she shows up with a baby. Then when she leaves the show she doesn't even get a farewell episode and is just gone at the start of season 12.

[Cloud9Shopper]

2 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

We are on season 12 now, and it has been interesting that for seasons 1-10 we were watching most of the time 2 a night. Then for 11 it went to maybe 1 a night. And now for 12 it seems like one episode every few days.

I liked Susan a lot but was there a main character that the writers cared less about especially when she came back. They could not find something interesting for her to do. Plus every other female main character who had a baby got the giving birth episode. Susan gets an episode where she is put on bed rest then the next season she shows up with a baby. Then when she leaves the show she doesn't even get a farewell episode and is just gone at the start of season 12.

It really was annoying how useless Susan was made to be in her second go-round. She seemed to have an even head about her still, which was a relief after we were put through the wringer with Abby, Sam, Luka, and the rest of the County misery club. I thought having her hook up with Chuck and then have the kid named Cosmo was really out of character and she didn’t even seem to be a good match for Chuck. (I did like Donal Logue as Declan on SVU but his role on ER didn’t work for me.) That relationship was just another way I thought ER became a gimmick in its later years.

I also forgot another caricature of S14: Harold, Neela’s 19-year-old med student. The young prodigy could have been a good storyline and yet here we are watching him ask his coworkers for sex advice on the job. 
 
Maybe Doodlebug or Debraran could explain this since they seem to be the resident medical professionals on this forum. (Or if anyone works in HR and is otherwise familiar with this kind of thing.) But in 300 Patients, Abby tells Luka that she had to live off only her salary when he was gone. Is it realistic that Luka doesn’t appear to get a paid leave of absence? Like an FMLA kind of thing? Even if he had to take all or part of it unpaid, it’s not like the Kovac/Lockhart family lived in a shack in the middle of rural Idaho or something with a Walmart 25 miles away and no other resources for Abby. Wouldn’t they have had savings? I’m not familiar with an ER resident’s salary of that time (late 2000s) but Abby acting like she was on the brink of bankruptcy didn’t seem very accurate to me. And she had been a nurse for many years before that. Maybe in the 2000s nurses didn’t make what they make now. This isn’t my field so I could be completely off base. But I was just like WTF Abby you’re not in the poor house. 

[doodlebug]

52 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

 
Maybe Doodlebug or Debraran could explain this since they seem to be the resident medical professionals on this forum. (Or if anyone works in HR and is otherwise familiar with this kind of thing.) But in 300 Patients, Abby tells Luka that she had to live off only her salary when he was gone. Is it realistic that Luka doesn’t appear to get a paid leave of absence? Like an FMLA kind of thing? Even if he had to take all or part of it unpaid, it’s not like the Kovac/Lockhart family lived in a shack in the middle of rural Idaho or something with a Walmart 25 miles away and no other resources for Abby. Wouldn’t they have had savings? I’m not familiar with an ER resident’s salary of that time (late 2000s) but Abby acting like she was on the brink of bankruptcy didn’t seem very accurate to me. And she had been a nurse for many years before that. Maybe in the 2000s nurses didn’t make what they make now. This isn’t my field so I could be completely off base. But I was just like WTF Abby you’re not in the poor house. 

No, it made no sense at all, nor did Luka seem like the kind of guy who would allow his wife and kid to suffer financially.  Luka was always an ER attending from his first appearance on the show, meaning he easily made 6 figures.  He was also known to volunteer for extra shifts.  Yet, initially, anyway, he lived very modestly, on a boat, as I recall.  Even when he went wild and bought his condo and a sports car; none of that should've been out of reach for him financially.  He should've socked away a nice sum of money over the years, easily hundreds of thousands.

FMLA is not paid, so, presuming that is how he got an LOA from County, he wouldn't have been getting a paycheck, but, surely, he had savings and credit cards and a home equity line and plenty of other resources for Abby to tap to make ends meet.   He could've used vacation time, but, after his trips to Africa, maybe he didn't have much left.  A doc at his level would be getting 4-5 weeks a year, probably. Abby's salary was much less than his and she probably couldn't have afforded the mortgage and bills just on her salary alone; but there is no reason she would've ever been in that position anyway.  It goes entirely against the character of Luka as seen on the show that he would swan off to Croatia with no thought to the well-being of his wife and child.  From what we saw, he was maybe gone a month or two.  No way Abby didn't have resources to support her and the baby for that period.  I think it was just more Abby complaining and whining and blaming others when she was unhappy.  She certainly seemed to have enough to buy liquor and hang out in bars.  She also ran to the airport to purchase last-minute tickets to Croatia which wouldn't have been cheap, either.  How was she going to pay for that?  Of course, she had credit cards and bank accounts and lots of other options; all of them thanks her her upper middle class doctor husband.

Edited April 4, 2021 by doodlebug

[Broderbits]

22 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hey, I despise Abby, too, as I have said much more than once here! 

Add me to the list, although it's a toss-up who I hate more: Abby or her mother. I know lots of people think the world of Sally Field, but I haven't been able to stand her since the Flying Nun and find her ER appearances excruciating.

[Ceindreadh]

30 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

Add me to the list, although it's a toss-up who I hate more: Abby or her mother. I know lots of people think the world of Sally Field, but I haven't been able to stand her since the Flying Nun and find her ER appearances excruciating.

Room for one more at the 'boo to Abby' table?

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

Room for one more at the 'boo to Abby' table?

Always room for more!  😉

[Bastet]

So can someone point me to one of these forums where hating Abby is unpopular?  Because it sure ain't this one.

I can take her or leave her; my only true dislike surrounding her is not about her, but how much time was given to storylines about her family - the whole thing with her mother and brother could have been reduced by half and worked much better.