S05.E05: Episode Five

[ZoloftBlob]

Sorry- missed the dates - still.... "My friend from Stafford By-The-Valley who I worked with in London on the paper died and left me their adorable child" works. It works easily.

[shipperx]

I think with Edith there is also the pressure of being the unpopular child. Yeah Robert stands by Mary because her scandal never quite materialized. Plus, she's Mary. And everyone loved Sybil. Edith is the child they've never quite bothered with, the 'plain' one who her parents will most likely be 'stuck' with (and in season 1 they even said so). Her father practically chased away her fiancé. And she already had to go through everyone thinking what a mess she must be for a man to leave her at the altar. Psychologically she already suffers under the stress of constantly believing she's the 'disappointing' child. And then she turns up pregnant by a married man whose disappearance could make it look like he ran away from her and the baby. What sort of disappointment does she think her parents would see her as now? How could she avoid thinking that she had just confirmed every snide insult Mary has tossed at her (and she'd fairly reasonably believe Mary would toss more snide insults over this) or that she had confirmed every tired condescending sigh of her parents of 'poor Edith. We knew she'd never amount to much."

Yes, Edith does need to realize that what's done is done, that she only has one life and she can live it for herself or she can live it trying to conform to her family's expectation (and perpetual disappointment). She might reasonably believe that her family wouldn't send her away penniless. But it's not unreasonable for her to think that they would make her forever aware of what a disappointment and now an embarrassment she is and try to keep her out of the public eye especially if it were to hit scandal sheets that the Earl of Grantham's plain spinster daughter gave birth to a married man's child (and that said man had promptly skipped the country once she was pregnant. That's how it would be told, actual circumstances wouldn't factor in the retelling)

Should she say, screw you all. I love and want my baby? Yes, she most likely should. But given the time, place, and society strictures on women I can understand how that would be an incredibly daunting prospect to work herself up to. Made worse by the family dynamics that have always left her feeling less valued than her siblings.

Edited October 23, 2014 by shipperx

[DianeDobbler]

 

On the other hand Downton is not reality and so I don't see Edith having to live apart from her family. They will find a solution that will allow her to live under the same roof with them AND have her child. She's probably just going to take her as a ward and they will pretend she is someone else's Baby.

 

Yep, Downton is not reality and they want the main characters to look good. Ergo, they're not going to turn their backs on Edith, after the initial puffing up and acting shocked. I'm calling it now. In the end Robert is going to feel guilty that he was dismissive about poor Edith hanging round the Drews til they got sick of her, and all along his child went through a pregnancy and childbirth without his support. Meanwhile, his sister and his mother - and his mother is all about appearances - stepped up. His child couldn't trust him to support her. I'm predicting that Robert's the one who puts the kibosh on sending Marigold away, that he makes one of his big declarations about standing up to social judgment, and if they're shunned, they're shunned, everybody dabs their eyes, and the upshot is nobody shuns anybody. It'll be like Thomas/Jimmy, where Robert pretty much killed Sybil and then they gave him an out (she would have died anyway!) and he turned out to be all chill with gay butlers. This season he's been oblivious about Edith and ignoring his wife. By the end he'll save the day for Edith and he'll do something heartfelt re Cora.

 

Note: while the show has double standards and is unfair, Edith's daughter is the consequence of one time with the man she loved before he disappeared. Mary just spent a week banging a guy she no longer has any intention of marrying. Cora had a guy in his bathrobe propositioning her in her bedroom, thanks to her husband's disrespect and neglect. We found out Violet had committed adultery - with a FOREIGNER. Yes, Edith is "caught" the way the other too weren't caught, but I think we're set up for poor Edith suffering alone, with the emotional support of her female relatives who have all the wrong solutions. Robert's solution will be - Marigold stays with us! She's one of us!

 

P.S. - wouldn't be surprised if we got a: "Yes, and this is my OTHER granddaughter, Marigold!" to someone of some standing, at a picnic, party, fair, cricket match. There's a brief pause, and then everybody outside Downton who even thought about side-eyeing Edith if for no reason other than they were bored, caves in and accepts. Count on Isobel running around talking about how it's 1924 and people have sex (responsibly! she'll be sure to include).

Edited October 23, 2014 by DianeDobbler

[Athena]

Things are dragging as usual so I will say what I did like about this episode:

 

Allen Leech/Tom in his period piece overcoat. He's even dashing telling an annoying woman, "I'm just not that into you."  It's official, he's one of my TV boyfriends.

 

I continue to love Isobel/Lord Merton. 

 

Blake was amusing for a bit, but that's it. 

 

Atticus was a bit cute, but all of the Rose stuff just reminded me how cute the gardener from last series was. She had the best chemistry with him. That was the only time I was interested in her storylines. I really hope they don't pair her with Tom. 

[Avaleigh]

Let's face it if they had stopped being so openly hostile to the man, Edith would be Lady Strallan and probably would have provided Sir Anthony with an heir and a spare by now and have a respected place in society.

I honestly think what ultimately pushed Strallan to break off the engagement had to do with Edith's declaration that he would be her life's project. He looked very uncomfortable and letdown when she put it that way and I think he thought she'd be wasting her life if that was the main thing she was concerned about when she imagined them being happy together. 

 

Her father practically chased away her fiancé.

 

 

I disagree. Robert was actually a lot more welcoming to Strallan than he was with Tom and Tom managed to not run away and humiliate Sybil as Strallan did with Edith. I don't give Strallan a pass for humiliating Edith like that just because Robert and Violet weren't jumping up and down with excitement over the union. Other family members like Cora, Matthew, and Isobel were perfectly friendly to him and with Edith's support that should have been enough for the time being. I disagree that it's the fault of Robert or Violet or that they should take the blame for Strallan choosing to end things with Edith in the most hurtful and humiliating way possible.

 

What sort of disappointment does she think her parents would see her as now?

 

 

Edith hasn't given her parents any sort of chance. I think it's completely unfair of her to not confide in Cora at this point as I don't think Cora has done anything to deserve being so shut out and lied to. Cora has been loving and encouraging of Edith and there are examples from every season yet somehow Cora is regularly lumped in when it comes to the IMO mistaken impression that she's been a neglectful parent or that she hasn't been supportive of Edith in general. Whether she was thanking Edith for being helpful with guests, praising her on her column and saying she never misses reading it, comforting her after being jilted, making sure to be friendly to Gregson, etc. When Edith considers that Cora helped Mary out of her jam years ago I would think that she would at least consider that her mother would be inclined to help her as well. Cora makes one truthful comment (truthful IMO anyway) about Edith having fewer advantages than Mary during a conversation where she thinks she is alone with Mary and from then on Cora is somehow seen as a bad mother who doesn't try to find a husband for Edith even though we know the only reason she tried to find a husband for Mary was specifically because of the Pamuk scandal. IMO favoritism didn't play into the decision of Cora making that small effort to find Mary a husband. Seriously, she invited one guy over for dinner for Mary but was perfectly happy when it seemed like he'd be a better fit for Edith instead. Otherwise Mary and Sybil both found their own men and I think the Granthams expected that Edith would do the same only she didn't have a court of admirers from her debutante days as her sisters did. Edith still had the same opportunities as her sisters when it came to being around and meeting eligible men only nothing materialized. That can happen, I don't think it's a sign of Edith having been neglected by her parents because she happens to be unmarried. 

 

In this episode I felt so sorry for Cora to be on the outside of the Rosamund/Edith/Violet trio. She has no idea what's going on and when/if she does find out I can't help but suspect that she'll feel terribly hurt to have not been trusted with Edith's secret. I'm sure all she would want to do is be helpful and supportive but she's being denied the chance for whatever reason.

 

How could she avoid thinking that she had just confirmed every snide insult Mary has tossed at her (and she'd fairly reasonably believe Mary would toss more snide insults over this) or that she had confirmed every tired condescending sigh of her parents of 'poor Edith.

With Mary I'm sure that part of the problem for Edith would be remembering that she'd once called Mary a slut for having sex outside of marriage and now Edith might be wondering if Mary would throw a similar blow at her if she were to ever find out about Marigold. I don't think Mary would try to hurt Edith or say anything nasty to be honest. I really do think that she'd try to be helpful and would especially be concerned about Marigold's well being. As Tom said, Mary is a lot nicer than people want to give her credit for and I think this is a situation where she'd try to be supportive if given the chance. I'm not saying that she and Edith would be all hugs while they take a house by the sea together ( Mabel Lane Fox) but I do think that Mary would do the right thing and try to help in whatever way she can. 

 

Yes, Edith does need to realize that what's done is done, that she only has one life and she can live it for herself or she can live it trying to conform to her family's expectation

 

 

I think it's like what a couple of other posters were saying. I think a huge part of the problem is that Edith still wants to be able to have her cake and eat it too. She doesn't want to be cast out of society and she doesn't want to be that woman that people whisper about and feel sorry for. At the end of the day she's going to have to decide which things are ultimately the most important to her.

 

Note: while the show has double standards and is unfair, Edith's daughter is the consequence of one time with the man she loved before he disappeared. Mary just spent a week banging a guy she no longer has any intention of marrying. Cora had a guy in his bathrobe propositioning her in her bedroom, thanks to her husband's disrespect and neglect. We found out Violet had committed adultery - with a FOREIGNER. Yes, Edith is "caught" the way the other too weren't caught, but I think we're set up for poor Edith suffering alone, with the emotional support of her female relatives who have all the wrong solutions.

 

 

The bottom line to me is that Edith didn't seem like she'd taken any precautions. She knew that Gregson was married and had no idea if he'd be able to obtain a divorce or not. She didn't know what the deal was with the wife and just sort of took his word for it. Violet committed adultery but she was married and had the protection of her husband if she'd ended up getting pregnant. Mary made sure to get a diaphragm. Cora got "caught" in a way but it was obvious that they hadn't got up to anything (they're both fully clothed without a hair out of place, the bed is made, and Carson said that she'd only just gone up to bed so they had no time) and it was even more obvious that she hadn't invited him. 

 

Upthread someone mentioned that female characters haven't been able to have premarital sex without suffering huge consequences. This is mostly true but Rose is a notable exception to this rule since she got to have two affairs without having anything major happen. 

[kpw801]

 

 

Upthread someone mentioned that female characters haven't been able to have premarital sex without suffering huge consequences. This is mostly true but Rose is a notable exception to this rule since she got to have two affairs without having anything major happen. 

I am not sure Rose actually slept with Jack Ross.  They kissed but that is all as far as what was shown on screen.  He came to Yorkshire and spent the afternoon with her but I don't think she would have been crazy enough to risk having an out of wedlock mixed race child.

Atticus was a bit cute, but all of the Rose stuff just reminded me how cute the gardener from last series was. She had the best chemistry with him. That was the only time I was interested in her storylines. I really hope they don't pair her with Tom. 

I think Atticus looks a little like Prince William with dark hair.

What I wonder is can the Drews actually just take the baby?  When Edith gave birth did they do birth certificates back then?  I mean can she prove she is the mother of the child?  I suppose she has kept receipts of the payments she made to the Drews.  I can't believe that abrupt about face Mr. Drew made by threatening Edith and telling her to "leave them alone".  He was the one who claimed to understand the depth of a mother's love.  If he truly understands that you would think he would finally tell his bat sh*t crazy wife the truth.

Edited October 23, 2014 by kpw801

[ZulaMay]

avaleigh, I think you are being way too lenient with Edith's family here.  You feel sorry for Cora for being excluded?  Seriously?  We have not seen Cora make ANY inquiries into Edith's emotional state for the past two seasons.  None.  Edith has asked for attention and approval from her parents, always, and hasn't gotten it.  She has asked through deeds, by trying to accomplish things and be helpful, and she gets no notice.   But she has also asked directly.  When Cora told Sybil she had been a great success at her debut, Edith pointed out that Cora never said such things to her (which she doesn't) and Cora said absent-mindedly:  "Oh, don't !?  Well, you're very helpful, dear!"  And went back to never paying attention to her or saying anything nice except when Edith basically had to ask her to.

 

Edith tells her father that she's always the disappointment in the family, after Robert snidely disparages her writing efforts.  Does Robert assure her that's not the case?  No.  He just sits there reading his paper, not giving a shit that he just made his daughter feel like crap about herself, as usual.  When she was jilted at the altar, which was partly his fault, he shrugs it off with "there's nothing to be done" and smokes his cigar.  If it had been Mary he would have been obsessing over it.

 

As for Mary, again, seriously?  Have you been paying attention to the way Mary talks to and about Edith for the past three seasons?  Calling her an idiot at the table and not being called out on it, snapping at her to stop moaning, being snide and nasty about Michael when he came to Scotland.  I know, I know, Edith called her a slut.  There's that old trump card again.  That happened way back in S1 when they were both adolescents and Mary was always a mean-ass bitch to her. too  But they're not adolescents any more.  Edith doesn't say nasty things to Mary or insult or provoke her, except when she asked to see her "sketches" from what they all knew was a sex trip.  And that was more teasing than anything.

 

So the fact that Edith called Mary a name twelve years ago doesn't make it OK for Mary to be judgmental and nasty now.  Especially since she herself just went on a week-long sex trip with a man she wasn't even sure she wanted.  If she judges Edith for this than she is a total hypocrite on top of everything else.  It's water under the bridge.  Edith has put  that kind of pettiness aside, and if Mary can't do the same than she's the one at fault.  And she can't seem to do the same because she's just as mean and petty as ever.

Edited October 23, 2014 by ZulaMay

[shipperx]

Oh I expect Mary will hold her icy tongue when the Edith situation blows (maybe) as a sign that she can be 'nicer than she appears,' but from Edith's POV there's little reason for Edith to think that Mary won't be both hypocritical and bitchy about it. (And possibly vindictively amused. After all this is the Mary who retalliated to Edith gossiping about what Mary actually did by entirely making up something to tell Edith's suitor. When Mary strikes back, she strikes back hard). As for the parents. Robert and Cora most likely will be understanding. They do love Edith in their inattentive and vaguely pitying way (although the only time we have ever seen them prioritize her needs in any way was for five minutes after being publicly humiliated by being left at the altar). Given the family dynamics I can totally sympathize with Edith expecting nothing but huffing and bluster with a side of unintended insult from Robert and pity and vague disappointment from Cora. In non modern TV entertainment land those would be the more likely responses based on their relationship dynamics. The only reason we expect it to turn out otherwise is the modern Tv soap aspect of it.

Edited October 23, 2014 by shipperx

[kpw801]

avaleigh, I think you are being way too lenient with Edith's family here.  You feel sorry for Cora for being excluded?  Seriously?  We When Cora told Sybil she had been a great success at her debut, Edith pointed out that Cora never said such things to her (which she doesn't) and Cora said absent-mindedly:  "Oh, don't !?  Well, you're very helpful, dear!"  And went back to never paying attention to her or saying anything nice except when Edith basically had to ask her to.

 

Edith tells her father that she's always the disappointment in the family, after Robert snidely disparages her writing efforts.  Does Robert assure her that's not the case?  No.  He just sits there reading his paper, not giving a shit that he just made his daughter feel like crap about herself, as usual.  When she was jilted at the altar, which was partly his fault, he shrugs it off...

 

As for Mary, again, seriously?  Have you been paying attention to the way Mary talks to and about Edith for the past three seasons?  Calling her an idiot at the table and not being called out on it, snapping at her to stop moaning, being snide and nasty about Michael when he came to Scotland.  I know, I know, Edith called her a slut.  There's that old trump card again.  That happened way back in S1

 

AMEN!

 

So the fact that Edith called Mary a name twelve years ago doesn't make it OK for Mary to be judgmental and nasty now.  Especially since she herself just went on a week-long sex trip with a man she wasn't even sure she wanted.  If she judges Edith for this than she is a total hypocrite on top of everything else.  It's water under the bridge.  Edith has put  that kind of pettiness aside, and if Mary can't do the same than she's the one at fault.  And she can't seem to do the same because she's just as mean and petty as ever.

I agree.  The entire family except for Rosamund has been condescending to Edith.  I remember when in Season 1 Cora asked Violet if she though Edith was really serious about Anthony Strallan and she said derisively, "any port in a storm..."  The out and out ridicule Robert has displayed toward Edith would have made me leave home a long while back.  With an income of her own from writing and her Grandfather's trust fund, I would have just gotten a little flat in London and become part of the artsy society.  She probably would have found a husband if she had.  I actually applaud Edith for finally going for something on her own and writing her article.  I went back to season 3 and found some deleted scenes where they talked about her writing.  There was this scene where Matthew quizzed Robert about his attitude and he said "they just want to make a fool of her."  They don't even try to understand her.  I don't condone what she did with Michael Gregson but it is completely understandable.  After so much rejection Patrick, Strallan, Matthew and then her fake imposter Patrick, Michael Gregson's attention were like water to a dying man.  There is no way she would be able to turn her back on his child.  My fear is that when she finally gets over him and comes to some sort of arrangement with Marigold, he will show up at a most inopportune time.

[abbyzenn]

I recently rewatched the Season 3 Christmas Special - the one in Scotland.  Michael had talked to Matthew about his situation and Matthew told him while he felt for him Matthew said he needed to break it off with Edith.  Later when Michael talks to Edith he tells her what Matthew said.  Edith then says "how disappointing" of him and that she was going to tell Michael she couldn't see him anymore but now it wasn't over and she'd see him.  So to despite Matthew she's going to continue to see Michael???  That personality trait is why I dislike Edith and don't feel sorry for her at all.  She's brought on her troubles all by herself.  She knew Michael was married but she continued to see him. 

It will be interesting to see the family's reaction when they find out not only about Marigold but that Michael was married and his real reason for going to Germany.  Edith hasn't told anyone including Rosamund or Violet that Michael was married.

 

I really dislike Thomas's story (or nonstory) in this season.

 

It seems there is so much more Violet and Isobel in this season - and not just Violet's one liners but actual scenes.  I am enjoying that. 

[Llywela]

did they do birth certificates back then?

Yes, they did birth certificates in the 1920s. The oldest birth certificate among my family papers dates back to the 1870s (also an illegitimate child, as it goes, raised by his teenage mum who was thrown out of service after falling pregnant; her family took her back, baby and all)

 

On the other hand, Edith gave birth in Switzerland and handed her child over to a family there, then brought her back to England to give to another family here, and has had her bedroom burn down since then, so even if she received a birth certificate, whether she still has it or not is anyone's guess. It may have been handed over with the child.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Llywela

[SilverShadow]

I honestly think what ultimately pushed Strallan to break off the engagement had to do with Edith's declaration that he would be her life's project. He looked very uncomfortable and letdown when she put it that way and I think he thought she'd be wasting her life if that was the main thing she was concerned about when she imagined them being happy together.

 

It's interesting to note that that scene is not in the original British cut. It was put back into the American version to fill time.

 

I definitely think ultimately marigold will end up with Edith. But there'll be a lot of plot contrivance and drama first.

[shipperx]

I don't believe Edith's choice had to do with spiting anyone, much less Matthew. I think it was that she had thought Matthew might be (somewhat) supportive since he was more modern than the rest of her family. In Edith's mind she probably envisioned herself as Jane Eyre with Michaels wife being the crazed woman in the attic. It was romantic fantasy.

Edith wasn't (and isn't) being realistic... If she were self aware she'd realize that she's Downton's upstairs butt monkey who isn't allowed to have nice things.

Edited October 23, 2014 by shipperx

[Avaleigh]

As for Mary, again, seriously?  Have you been paying attention to the way Mary talks to and about Edith for the past three seasons?  Calling her an idiot at the table and not being called out on it, snapping at her to stop moaning, being snide and nasty about Michael when he came to Scotland.  I know, I know, Edith called her a slut.  There's that old trump card again.

 

 

I wasn't saying that it's okay for Mary to say mean things to Edith because Edith once called Mary a slut 12 years ago. Since we were discussing how Edith might think other members in her family would react to the news of Marigold, I was talking about how I think that Mary would ultimately be supportive and helpful in whatever way she could. I also mentioned that I thought Edith might remember how she called Mary a slut after she found out about Mary having sex with Pamuk. I brought this up because I thought it was something that Edith might have in the back of her head. At no point did I suggest that it's somehow okay for Mary to say mean things to Edith because Edith called her that name all those years ago.

 

The rest of the post I'm responding to in Edith and Mary's thread.

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/13491-mary-and-edith-edith-and-mary/page-2

[Featherhat]

The thing is, even if Edith moves Marigold to Downton and publically declares her her child, its still going to be really tough on them, even assuming her parents financially support them. Edith might loose her column and any standing she had left in society, Marigold might be left off any socially acceptable playdates that Sybbie and George are invited to, she might be declined a place at good schools because other parents would complain if their daughter sits at the desk across from Lady Edith's bastard (that's if they don't go the governess route), people often had a hard time getting jobs if they were known to be illegitimate into the 50s. And this isn't just upper class society but a lot of people, especially including the sprawling middle class and its not guaranteed to be much different in America if it was widely known, the only difference being Martha would probably be more supportive than the Crawleys.

 

There are always people (like Lady Almira from Highclere) who can get society to "forget" their "questionable" origins but Edith isn't really one of those people and Robert doesn't really have the personality to go "yep there's my daughter's daughter who was the result of an affair with a married man who fled to the continent and disappeared, deal with it!" though Rosamund and Violet probably do.

 

But there is a reason why rich widow London based Rosamund, who is well placed to be used to scandal and would be allowed her own affairs as a "merry widow" if the wanted, thought a long trip abroad and leaving the baby there was the best solution. Although, I really am wondering if Fellowes will go for an "Edith is Rosamunds daughter" scenario, it would make a lot of things make sense, even if it wasn't originally planned.

 

I don't believe Edith's choice had to do with spiting anyone, much less Matthew. I think it was that she had thought Matthew might be (somewhat) supportive since he was more modern than the rest of her family. In Edith's mind she probably envisioned herself as Jane Eyre with Michaels wife being the crazed woman in the attic. It was romantic fantasy.

 

Matthew was more modern but he did have or at least likes to believe he has a strong sense of personal honourable morality see: marrying Lavinia out of obligation because it was the "right thing" to, of course Mary set that pretty haywire. He was never really going to give his blessing on Edith becoming the mistress of a man who can't ever make an honest woman of her as things stand, and especially not to either hide that from the Crawleys who might then expect a wedding or try and convince them that this is a good thing. Add in that he's also her editor and the whole situation his highly sketchy. Especially as no one has met his wife and verified that she actually is mad with no hope of improvement. Theoretically at least she could have been a perfectly sane woman at home with 2 kids and Michael was lying his ass off, which is what I thought originally because Edith is the butt monkey, but the show made her a butt monkey again another way.

 

Also I think Edith was probably being gothically romantic about the whole thing at that point, but the whole point of Jane Eyre was that she *didn't* agree to become a mistress.

[Andorra]

Lady Almira is always brought up as an example that you could be illegitimate and still become a countess, but wasn't it so that she had an "official" father? Her mother was married, wasn't she and it was just comon knowledge that the daughter was in reality a Rothshild, but she was not born out of wedlock?

I think there's a big difference.

[shipperx]

Oh Matthews response was more than fine. He was compassionate but objectively realistic. Neither Edith or Michel were being realistic or objective and look at what mess resulted. Motivation isn't the same as justification. They had sympathetic motivation but the resulting mess reveals why certain choices are not justified.

[DeepRunner]

Fellowes has oft seemed eager to not have the story move so much as have the Sanctum of Suffering looming over Edith and Anna and Bates. I am not sure why he has such schadenfreude regarding the Agonistes of the Abbey, but seriously, dude...

[Featherhat]

Lady Almira is always brought up as an example that you could be illegitimate and still become a countess, but wasn't it so that she had an "official" father? Her mother was married, wasn't she and it was just comon knowledge that the daughter was in reality a Rothshild, but she was not born out of wedlock?

 

Yes I think so, at least her mother was married to someone else at the time. As long as you had an official father who acknowledged you many things could be glossed over. Its one of the reasons why married ladies who had affairs but kept everything fairly discreet and plausible to outsiders were often acceptable but supposed virgins who were supposed to be wombs for future legit heirs but who had well known affairs weren't treated the same. "Polite Fiction" was a real thing, which is why if Edith wants to actually go ahead and "acknowledge" Marigold but still maintain her current life, her best bet would be to say that she was a orphaned child of an old friend or a foundling that she had decided to use her "noblesse oblige" on and raise as her ward considering the dearth of other options for her post war generation in terms of having children. She would have to confess to her family and most people might suspect the truth but there was the veil of respectability and deniability. That is if she didn't move to America and claim a passionate but tragically brief marriage.

[kpw801]

I knew there was something I wanted to elaborate on a bit about this episode.  During the scene where they are all gathering in the drawing room Isobel remarks that they haven't seen much of Tom's friend, Sarah.  He has more sense than she does when he replies, "Is it any wonder?"  Then she rather obtusely states, "I think it's good to be disagreed with.  It keeps you on your toes."

 

Up until now Isobel was written as a character of intelligence and compassion.  She was incensed when Mr. and Mrs. Bakewell wouldn't serve Ethel and she scolded Mrs. Bird for being rude to her as well.  Now as they have written her, she is so very grateful to the Crawley family for making a place for her in their hearts even after Matthew was no longer in the picture.  To be honest, she still has a connection through her grandson, the present heir.  How in the world she cannot see the blatant cruelty and hostility spewed at the family through the mouth of Sarah Bunting is beyond me.  For example, when Sarah Bunting was ticked off at Robert about his shutting down her insensitivity about the World War I memorial, Sarah vindictively said, "It's too bad THEY DON'T WANT YOU ON THEIR COMMITTEE..."  That was way way OTT and not simply disagreement.  It was a deliberately mean spirited thing to say and everyone at the table was shocked by it.

 

Then after the Daisy and Mrs. Patmore scene she out and out accused Lord Grantham of "wanting us serfs to stay in our place" or some such nonsense.

 

Now, if that was done to someone in my family, I would not be clamouring to have them join us for dinner at every opportunity.  Disagreement is one thing.  Unnecessary drama and hatefulness is different altogether and I can't see how a woman like Mrs. Crawley cannot see that.  Unrealistic and insulting to the audience to expect that.  It seems that Julian Fellowes is now adding Robert to the perpetually unhappy and misunderstood pile of characters he has created as well.

 

Also harking back to the continued references about Tom remembering the man he used to be.  He was never like Sarah Bunting except for that dreadful time he was DRUGGED by Lord Merton's son.  When he would talk to Sybil about his ideas about the class system, he always sandwiched his opinions about wanting change between kindly remarks about her family - Lord Grantham in particular who he constantly said was a good employer and a kind man.  Now remember the only time Tom sounded remotely like Sarah Bunting was when he was DRUGGED!  What was her excuse?

Edited October 24, 2014 by kpw801

[darkestboy]

Another episode where naff all happened.

Except the Cora/Bricker/Robert scenes, it was a bit dull.

Just give Edith her baby back already.

Just tell us what really happened to Green already.

Bunting's exit was okay, probably for the beat really.

Thomas's story is uncomfortable to watch but the only interesting one at the moment, 6/10

[ZoloftBlob]

He has more sense than she does when he replies, "Is it any wonder?"  Then she rather obtusely states, "I think it's good to be disagreed with.  It keeps you on your toes."

Up until now Isobel was written as a character of intelligence and compassion.

 

This is where I wish sometimes, not just on Downton, that tv shows would accept that sometimes characters need to .... well, maybe drop to recurring instead of main cast. Particularly on a large cast like Downton, part of the problem is moments like this where Isobel is mostly being shoved into a scene so that we all know Isobel is still around.

 

Isobel is also one of those characters that I always was kinda iffy on - for all her liberalism, she really is a bit of a snob

[ZulaMay]

I recently rewatched the Season 3 Christmas Special - the one in Scotland.  Michael had talked to Matthew about his situation and Matthew told him while he felt for him Matthew said he needed to break it off with Edith.  Later when Michael talks to Edith he tells her what Matthew said.  Edith then says "how disappointing" of him and that she was going to tell Michael she couldn't see him anymore but now it wasn't over and she'd see him.  So to despite Matthew she's going to continue to see Michael???  That personality trait is why I dislike Edith and don't feel sorry for her at all.  She's brought on her troubles all by herself.  She knew Michael was married but she continued to see him. 

It will be interesting to see the family's reaction when they find out not only about Marigold but that Michael was married and his real reason for going to Germany.  Edith hasn't told anyone including Rosamund or Violet that Michael was married.

 

I really dislike Thomas's story (or nonstory) in this season.

 

It seems there is so much more Violet and Isobel in this season - and not just Violet's one liners but actual scenes.  I am enjoying that. 

She didn't bring on being jilted at the altar.  She did nothing to deserve that.  That was the fault of her family who discouraged Anthony and Anthony who didn't have to guts to stand up to it.   So if not for their behavior she'd be married.  How is that her fault?  

[Andorra]

I

Also harking back to the continued references about Tom remembering the man he used to be.  He was never like Sarah Bunting except for that dreadful time he was DRUGGED by Lord Merton's son.  When he would talk to Sybil about his ideas about the class system, he always sandwiched his opinions about wanting change between kindly remarks about her family - Lord Grantham in particular who he constantly said was a good employer and a kind man.  Now remember the only time Tom sounded remotely like Sarah Bunting was when he was DRUGGED!  What was her excuse?

 

Yes, amen to that! Tom was never as prejudiced and narrow minded as Bunting. He always saw the people and not the types. And even though he hated the Aristocracy out of principle, he always found nice, fair words for Robert. 

[DianeDobbler]

Superpole, I think Fellowes just isn't interested. Doesn't want to spend time developing characters who are not his favorites. So, create Edna, and play that one note for an ENTIRE SERIES. Stretch it out, he doesn't have to write anything else for Tom. Create Bunting - ditto. Bunting just existed to state the same point in every single episode "Does Tom think he belongs at Downton." Not even DOES Tom belong at Downton, but "Does Tom THINK he belongs at Downton?" Each episode, his position was "I don't know." But, because Bunting was there, Tom had "something to do" every episode, which was to say "I don't know." Edith has something to do every episode - lurk around Marigold.

 

This isn't storytelling. Not sure anymore Fellowes knows what it is.

 

Oh God, I have never understood why they discouraged Anthony and Edith, and used Violet as the cudgel to persuade the audience as well. Anthony was good enough for Mary when Cora was foisting Mary on Anthony. The family doesn't even LIKE Edith and they acted as if because Strallen had a bum arm it was a bad match. Yes, because being married to a guy with a wonky arm, a gajillion dollars, tons of servants means he can't become a father and you're going to spend your married life emptying bedpans, cause that's how it works.  And as if the Crowleys CARED. I really think after all these seasons they just need somebody to ignore and disparage, and if Edith were in her own household they'd have to find someone else. Strallen and Edith were probably the two best suited people I've ever seen on Downton.

Edited October 24, 2014 by DianeDobbler

[ZoloftBlob]

She didn't bring on being jilted at the altar.  She did nothing to deserve that.  That was the fault of her family who discouraged Anthony and Anthony who didn't have to guts to stand up to it.   So if not for their behavior she'd be married.  How is that her fault?

 

Well, in the example being cited, it had nothing to do with the Strallan incident. Matthew and Michael discussed the relationship, Matthew told Michael it wasn't cool for a married man to boink his sister in law outside of marriage. Edith was planning to cut things off with Michael, per her words, but is offended that Matthew didn't take her side and bless their illicit relationship so she changed her mind and continued seeing Michael.... to spite Matthew.

 

She didn't bring on being jilted at the altar, but she did bring on her initial woes with Strallan by choosing to write the Turkish embassy about Mary's indiscretions. Mary most likely would not have taken petty petty revenge on Edith by turning Strallan off Edith if that hadn't happened.

 

Strallan leaving her at the altar was a combo of Strallan, Robert and Violet, but if she was genuinely planning to leave Michael and decided against it because *Matthew* pissed her off, then yes, she's not entirely the innocent victim of others. She does make some of her own problems.

[ZulaMay]

She didn't continue seeing Michael to spite Matthew.  Come on.  She was disappointed that he hadn't been more understanding and had dismissed Michael out of hand.  I think what Matthew said got her thinking that she can't let other people tell her what she should or shouldn't do, and shouldn't live her life according to their dictates and opinions.  Because look at where their opinions have gotten her so far (like with Strallan).

 

I am not saying she was right to keep seeing him, just that she didn't do it out of petty spite against Matthew.  A touch of rebellion?  Yes. But you can't blame Edith for rebelling when following the rules has gotten her nowhere.

[ZoloftBlob]

Well, again, I don't think it was entirely petty spite either, but she did say it - that she was going to stop seeing Michael but now that Matthew was against it, she was going to continue to see Michael. I certainly think she had other reasons, but at the end of the day, per her, she was going to make a different decision until Matthew took  against it.

 

That's Edith making an in the heat of the moment decision without thinking that somehow turns her into an innocent victim of everyone else... when yeah, she does make some of her own problems. She was at least considering the logical choice, someone pissed her off and hurt her feelings, and she acts accordingly. Its a pattern with Edith.

[DianeDobbler]

I must say, I do see Edith wanting her cake and eating it too in some respects, but in others there's a flat out double standard, VERY poorly supported in the plot, that is employed simply to make Edith the butt monkey. For example, with Strallen, there was no reason for the family to disapprove of the marriage, especially when Robert, of all people, was already predicting Edith would be a lifelong spinster looking after her infirm parents in their old age. Nice one, daddy. But of course, when there's a man she wants to marry, with whom she's well-suited, everybody body blocks that because they're so so concerned he has a gimpy arm, which is apparently a big big obstacle to marriage. Somebody tell Jane Eyre.

 

Then there's Robert saying that the paper only wanted Edith's views because of her title. Well DUH. That's the only reason anybody ever pays attention to YOU Robert, and I don't see you giving it all up out of embarrassment. A title, a name, status, credentials, a big resume - these are all calling cards that attract readers. Bonus that Edith is apparently a very good writer and a success. It just rankled that Robert, of all the oblivious idiots, who has to be saved every series from his own imbecility, the fortune-squanderer and daughter-killer, is turning up his nose because he guesses that his daughter was hired because of her title. I think he was really saying "Since you obviously have no talent whatsoever to add to your title." Of course the title was an incentive. And what's wrong with that. Robert's entire life is built on things like that. He didn't earn his way to an earldom.

Edited October 24, 2014 by DianeDobbler

[Avaleigh]

Tom was never as prejudiced and narrow minded as Bunting.

 

 

Completely true. For the most part Tom was very respectful but there were two or three times in the early days when he had to be checked, most notably by Sybil when she had to remind him that they (aristocrats) do indeed have feelings just like any other person would.

 

That was the fault of her family who discouraged Anthony and Anthony who didn't have to guts to stand up to it.   So if not for their behavior she'd be married. 

 

 

I don't know if that's true and I don't think that every viewer necessarily feels that Edith's family is to blame for Edith being jilted at the altar. I personally blame Anthony Strallan for being insensitive enough to do something like that. If Anthony had really loved Edith then IMO he wouldn't have put her through that sort of ordeal. In any case most of the family were polite, warm, and welcoming with him. They were certainly more welcoming of him than they were of Tom. 

 

But you can't blame Edith for rebelling when following the rules has gotten her nowhere.

 

 

Edith hasn't always followed the rules though. In fact we have examples from nearly every season. (Maybe season 3 is debatable.) ETANot only that but it's often been the times when she hasn't followed the rules that things have blown up in her face.)

 

That's Edith making an in the heat of the moment decision without thinking that somehow turns her into an innocent victim of everyone else... when yeah, she does make some of her own problems. She was at least considering the logical choice, someone pissed her off and hurt her feelings, and she acts accordingly. Its a pattern with Edith.

 

 

Pretty much. It seems like there are some notable examples of Edith making a rash decision that ended up hurting her down the road and I can completely see how she is often the author of her own problems. She absolutely brought on the first disappointment with Anthony Strallan; she brought on her own disappointment for what happened with not having the job she enjoyed on the farm because of the farmer's wife noticing Edith's inappropriate relationship with her husband; she wants to spite Matthew and her family by continuing the relationship with Gregson while knowing that he's already married; she goes into a situation where she isn't truthful to the couple about her reasons and intentions but still expects them to accommodate her expectations without giving one half of the couple any sort of clarification for why the matter is so precious and important to her.

 

I think Edith really needs to examine her own behavior and figure out what it is she really wants. What's the most important thing to her at the end of the day? 

 

when Robert, of all people, was already predicting Edith would be a lifelong spinster looking after her infirm parents in their old age. Nice one, daddy.

 

 

That was actually Cora who made the comment about Edith looking after them in their old age and she wasn't saying it in a nasty way, she was saying that she was "afraid" that would be Edith's fate. Robert agreed with her that it seemed like a ghastly prospect. People who dislike the character of Robert assume that he means it will be a ghastly prospect for he and Cora whereas people who don't have the same dislike of the character think that he meant what a ghastly prospect for Edith.

 

Of course the title was an incentive. And what's wrong with that. Robert's entire life is built on things like that. He didn't earn his way to an earldom.

 

 

Robert has made multiple comments about how he didn't earn his way to an earldom. It's one of the big subjects of season 1. Robert keeps telling Mary that Downton is something that he was lucky enough to inherit, to be the custodian of for a moment in time. He tells her that "Downton is the work of others" and that things would be different if he'd earned it himself. If that had been the case he'd fight tooth and nail to make sure that Mary as the eldest would inherit. He acknowledges that he didn't do the work so he feels he has no right to break up the work of others.

 

I think Robert is very aware of the fact that he didn't earn Downton or the earldom. I think one of the reasons that he tells Edith about the title being the main reason they want her is because he has plenty of experience of feeling as though he's being used for his title and nothing else. 

Edited October 24, 2014 by Avaleigh

[shipperx]

I honestly don't think that Robert thinks in those terms. Robert is a creature of privilege. He doesn't question certain things such as his title, it's his by right of blood which is blue as aquamarines. Roberts comment about using Edith for her title was as much a product of the sexism of the age as anything. I don't think Robert was intentionally insulting his daughter in public at the breakfast table. (Which doesn't mean that he was not doing exactly that as evidenced by everyone else's discomfort). He was just stating the 'obvious' as he saw it. Which boiled down to 'a woman writing a column? Really? Someone must have an ulterior motive. Bet it's the title." He would have been equally as dismissive of Cora or Sybil in the same circumstance. Robert isn't an ogre. He does love his family. But he's also a tradition bound privileged oblivious bit of an oaf. He is utterly unaware of the ways he's repeatedly undermined Edith's self esteem.

He isn't malicious. He's obtuse (and period appropriate sexist).

Edited October 24, 2014 by shipperx

[Featherhat]

I do agree with everything in your last post shipperx, but it is unfortunate that every attempt to "protect " Edith he has made, has resulted in ever greater social ruin for her. I think post S1 Robert became far worse than his initial characterisation.  Its not out of the question to assume an Editor of a national magazine would be using Edith's title to pursue his own agenda but it was rude to make that one *only* topic of conversation from your POV.

 

I actually really loved the scene is S1 where Mary and Robert seriously talk about the Earldom and the entail. It's difficult for our 21st C sensibilities but I believed his scene where he says that if he was a self made man he would pass everything on to Mary happily, but as the generational "caretaker" of the estate he couldn't hand the nest Earl as title and nothing to go with it or an albatross he would immediately have to sell.

[DianeDobbler]

I had to laugh at the idea of Robert being a self-made anything. When he said that about himself, it was like - in what universe. He's be lost if he wasn't born to his station. If he ever did get a leg up, he'd spoil it by making the wrong choice. As an earl, he can squander fortunes and make other bad decisions left and right, and ridiculous successive strokes of fortune have bailed him out.

 

 

When Cora told Sybil she had been a great success at her debut, Edith pointed out that Cora never said such things to her (which she doesn't) and Cora said absent-mindedly:  "Oh, don't !?  Well, you're very helpful, dear!"

Can't quite describe it, but I didn't even take that as absent-minded, but rather somewhat worse. You know how it's obligatory to give a compliment to someone but there's nothing good to say? It's the classic "That's some baby!" remark/joke about an ugly newborn. Or "My, I can't imagine how much trouble it was to cook all this food!" when the meal is bad.

 

 It read that way to me, and more. It also read as if Cora were correcting Edith, and putting her in her place, as in, "quit trolling for compliments/playing victim."

 

I sometimes wonder if Fellowes dragged Edith back to the pigsty because her stint as Michael's lover/editor/great wearer of clothes got too much attention. I imagine the actors who mentioned that period in Edith's life as an asset - they include Allen Leach, Michelle Dockery and Laura Carmichael - had it as part of their promotional talking points, but it just seems strange to me that she pulled it off so well but was then dragged back to sad sack land.

Edited October 26, 2014 by DianeDobbler

[ZulaMay]

I think that too.  She was looking fabulous and doing interesting things and viewers were noticing and commenting on it.  Fellowes and the producer, Gareth Neame, adore Mary.  Neame talks about her constantly and the others are mere afterthoughts.  He only mentions them when asked. They want all eyes on Mary and if Edith is drawing attention away from her it doesn't suit their vision of the show.

 

I thought maybe I was imagining things but since you theorized the same thing I think it could actually be the truth. Which is really quite pathetic.  Edith's clothes have been drab this season, for the most part.  I wonder if Laura Carmichael doesn't get deathly sick of it sometimes.  I would and I do even as a viewer. 

[kpw801]

I totally agree that it seems they have conspired to put Edith back in her place as the drab, uninteresting bucket.  The clothes she wore while in London were just fabulous and to tell you the truth, when she met Gregson at the Criterion in that sexy dress, I was dumbfounded.  She was so glamorous!  She was drop dead gorgeous because it isn't always about classical beauty is it?  I think about that song from Hello Dolly "We've got elegance, if you ain't got elegance you can never ever carry it off!"  Mary couldn't have carried those dresses the way Edith did.  I have never found Mary's clothes or demeanor such that I had to pick my mouth up off the floor.  Even Edith's wedding dress was more of a statement and flattered her figure more.  Mary's wedding dress looked like a shroud to me.

 

I would like to see Edith at work on her article or even in the beginnings of writing a novel.  Wouldn't that be great if she wrote a block buster book and had her own fortune at some point?

 

I think Edith will get some back bone when it comes to her daughter.  Every other attempt to be loved was thwarted by a combination of busy body family, revenge and some kind of masochistic self destructive behavior.  You can't make a man love you.  But her daughter is bonded to her.  She nursed that child for months and carried her in her body for 9 months.  The child knows her mother's voice and will always feel comfort in Edith's presence.  She has always had to suck it up and accept that she couldn't have the love of Patrick or Matthew.  She had to endure "being tested" as her mother said about being jilted.  I mean what a blow to your self esteem when you have accepted Mary's old cast-off suitor and even he rejects her and in such a public way.  She now has something that is absolutely her's by right and biology and I cannot see Edith ever just walking away from the child she bucked convention to bring back to Yorkshire.  

 

In the past, Sybil was the brave one who Edith said could pull off something she wouldn't dare to do but I think Edith is going to step up to the plate just like she did about her writing and say "I've had enough!"

Edited October 25, 2014 by kpw801

[DeepRunner]

Even though I haven't seen the eppys yet (being on the PBS side of The Pond, after all), I am fascinated at the hatred for Bunting. I think, from what I have read, that Fellowes wanted to paint Bunting with bright acid colors, thus making her completely unsympathetic. Goodness, she's worse than Vera. If what I have been reading is true, Fellowes has done a disservice to the character by making her so flattened and one-dimensional. Plus, I'm sure it doesn't help that Sarah ain't Sybil. She appears to be the Anti-Sybil (or the Anti-Christ, from the looks of most of the comments I have read about her).

 

I thought Bunting was a bit pushy in S4, but she was welcome and provocative in a dreary season that was dedicated to Bringing Back Mary to the Land of the Living Whilst Playing in the Land of the Pigs and Rose "loving" Jack Ross just to give "Mummy" the finger, only to have the Queen of the Hive save her from her folly, plus the dreadful cavorting Prince letter caper that made Bates a forger, and of course, The Rape.

 

I will watch with interest when S5 finally launches Over Here, to see why so many Downtonians are glad to see her go.

[DianeDobbler]

I'll tell you my problem with Bunting. Summarized in the old Woody Allen movie quote of "The food here is terrible, and such small portions."

 

She's been Tom's only story, but they didn't write anything but dinner parties where she clashed with Robert. Tom himself never invited her. I didn't WANT Tom to invite her, but the script had it as sort of she was invited because she was "Tom's friend" although we never saw a single scene of the friendship, something that was emphasized when Bunting herself asked Tom "Who invited me?" and he admitted "Rose" and not himself.

 

The main thing is, Bunting was his only story. But they wrote nothing for it. And dragged it out almost an entire series. And I didn't want it to be written anyway. Still, as long as she's there, write the damn scenes, get it over with, and get rid of her. In Series 5, Fellowes just hung fire. Here's Bunting. She's a fellow socialist and acquaintance of Tom's. We're going to placehold that for 10 episodes. Every time she's at Downton, it's through the offices of some other family member who appears to believe they're inviting her as a favor to Tom, although we've seen no evidence these two have ever spent time together.

 

Honestly, I don't know if I can do the next series. Maybe it's best to leave it till it's completely done, then binge watch til the absolute end of show finale.

[Andorra]

I agree about Bunting. I think she could have been an interesting character had she not been so one dimensional. My hatred for her mainly didn't come from her opinions - most of them I share - but by her horrible manners and attitude. AND that she was Tom's only storyline! Hadn't she been linked to his character, I could have just rolled my eyes at her and watch her with amusement, but Tom is my favourite character and to see him squirm and feel uncomfortable for a "friend" for 8 episodes was just awful to watch. Even more so, since he himself showed no real interest in her whatsoever and she never treated him as a friend either. So the stupid assumption of all family members "she's Tom's friend" was just ridiculous.

 

And then to top all this she confesses her love in the goodbye scene and I was like "what?". She had an odd way of showing it, by ignoring his wishes all the time. And he told her he will "miss her a lot" which was completely OTT, too, since he NEVER sought her company and each time one of his family members invited her he didn't look pleased but mainly terrified. So why should he miss her? Just because he knows there're other socialists in the world? This is ridiculous! Isobel for example is not a socialist, but she's not far from Tom in her political views. And if Tom is honest with himself, he is not a socialist any more either!

 

I'm just glad this storyline is over. I found the character a complete waste and the storyline boring and unnecessary. I know it was meant to show Tom gets his old ideals back and also that it brought him closer to the family in the end, but 8 episodes for that? And it is almost offensive that the most modern and progressive woman was written as such a cow.

 

My only hope is that Julian Fellows will make up for that by giving us a new love interest for Tom at the end of the series, who will also be modern and progressive BUT with a lovely personality.

[DianeDobbler]

I probably won't actually stop watching. :) However, having been a Matthew/Mary fan, and thus far not at all intrigued by Mary's current romantic options nor Mary solo, it is certainly striking, how the romantic lives of the other characters are addressed. I was following along with Mary/Matthew, I noticed Sybil/Tom got a bit of a short shrift, but another favorite, Thomas, got a great story with the Jimmy/Baxter/Carson/Mrs. Hughes/Bates stuff.

 

I'm a Mad Men fan too, one of the fans hoping Stan/Peggy end up together at the end. At the same time, it's not THAT type of soap, where people have adorable romances, break up and get back together, it IS the sort of drama/soap that's about other challenges, conflict, and if a character does find some happiness or true loves, it makes sense to wait til series end. Downton, OTOH, is more of an enjoy the process drama, not wait til the end for a pay-off. The "storytelling" is so thin that it's not worth it for Tom to only find somebody at the end of the run. Want to enjoy stories for him and stories for others I like while the series is still running. Fellowes doesn't seem to like to tell stories. He just sets up a scenario and instead of developing it, restates it.

[Brn2bwild]

I'm in the US and haven't watched an episode this season, and I'm not sure I want to.  Edith is getting absolutely shit on and Mary can't bring herself to be a sister to her even a little.  Why would I want to watch such a narcissist? 

[Ravenya003]

Even though I haven't seen the eppys yet (being on the PBS side of The Pond, after all), I am fascinated at the hatred for Bunting.

 

 

I feel the same way! It's a bit like Laurel on Arrow - I can understand why she's disliked, but the sheer amount of vitriol with which both female characters are treated is baffling.

[Andorra]

I feel the same way! It's a bit like Laurel on Arrow - I can understand why she's disliked, but the sheer amount of vitriol with which both female characters are treated is baffling.

 

I don't find it baffling at all. The reason is of course, because she is treated as a romantic option for Tom, who is a fan favourite and a character people are emotionally attached to. People care about what happens with Tom and to introduce such an annoying woman as his potential "love interest" is of course setting peopel's teeth on edge.

 

If she wasn't linked to Tom, she could have been an interesting and even funny addition to the show. Instead she is destroying his storyline completely, taking valuable screentime from him and it is just AWFUL to watch him with her, even though he doesn't even seem to like her or makes any romantic moves. All he does is squirming about her or apologizing FOR her.

 

So she's a double nuisance. First because she's so rude and generally unpleasant and second because she is the only storyline for Tom in this series and it is just painful to watch.

 

No wonder she is so hated. Every time she is on the screen I scream "Go away!!! Give Tom a storyline damn you, Fellows! Why do we have to endure 8 episodes of that boring, lead to nothing woman???!!!"

[zoey1996]

Sheep!

That's all for now, until the episode has finished airing here.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Did Robert, DIE!

[Eegah]

So, the guy on whose behalf we were supposed to be offended by Bunting insulting the Czar just three episodes ago is now a despicable anti-Semite. The show's politics have officially gone from pathetic strawmanning for the losing side of history, to just plain confused.

 

Also, way to go on making Tony's ex a complete shrew to retroactively justify Mary stealing Tony from her. Stephenie Meyer nods her silent approval.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Eegah

[Primetimer]

While Tom considers his future with Sarah Bunting, Rosamund noses around Edith's relationship with this farmer's daughter she's heard about, and Simon Bricker is back to photograph Cora's Della Francesca...and maybe more.

Read the story

[bmoore4026]

So how much longer before Lord Grantham goes full-on Falling Down on everybody's asses?

 

Also, I'm becoming convinced that this whole series is an overly long demo reel for Rob-James Collier to give to the Marvel Movie producers so he can be a villain in one of their films, possibly Maximus the Mad in the Inhumans movie or Mr. Sinister in the next X-Men film.

[PRgal]

So now they want to send Marigold off to a "school" in France?  Is it in an old house in Paris all covered with vines? Just wondering...

[avecsans]

I am very much hoping that Sarah Bunting's only purpose was to remind Tom "who he is" and that's the last we will see of her. Maybe now he can meet a nice Socialist.

Poor Edith. Even though it's far-fetched to consider it, I would love for her to get her baby back and to find some happiness.

I can't even work up the interest to comment on the Bates situation.

[TVForever]

 

What I wonder is can the Drews actually just take the baby?  When Edith gave birth did they do birth certificates back then?  I mean can she prove she is the mother of the child?  I suppose she has kept receipts of the payments she made to the Drews.  I can't believe that abrupt about face Mr. Drew made by threatening Edith and telling her to "leave them alone".  He was the one who claimed to understand the depth of a mother's love.  If he truly understands that you would think he would finally tell his bat sh*t crazy wife the truth.

        

        I think Mr Drew is probably torn at this point. He's cooked up this game with Edith and played a horrible trick on his wife in the process. Remember, Mrs Drew isn't in on the scheme. All she knows is that her husband has brought home an "orphan" who needed a home. She took the child into her home and her heart as her own child. Now, every time she turns around, Lady Edith is in her house and in her family's business. She's annoyed, and rightly so. 

Edited February 2, 2015 by TVForever