S10.E11: There's No Place Like Home

[Tara Ariano]

Charlie returns from Oz and is seen on video beating up a district attorney. Dean suspects she is hunting on her own and that the D.A. must be a demon. When Sam and Dean find her, they are shocked to learn the real reason for her return.

[Jediknight]

So the Feds are going to be on the Winchester's and Charlie's asses now, right?  Charlie did kill a ma, not just any man, but a high powered man, at a building with lots of security cameras, and didn't wear gloves.  That's not even mentioning Dean being there.  They also killed the Wizard, cops are going to wonder who did that.

 

Dean wasn't exactly the brightest in this episode.  He let DarkCharlie into the room with the guy who murdered her parents, and didn't even search her weapons.  He told DarkCharlie that Sam and LightCharlie were on that guy's trail, he didn't think that DarkCharlie would leave the bar, and didn't realize DarkCharlie was tailing him.  In this episode he was over 6 foot pure idiot, you put his brain in a parakeet, zing flies backwards.

 

I do love the Dean Charlie sibling relationship.  It's obvious these two love scenes with each other.

[kimrey]

If I cared about Charlie, I probably would have enjoyed this episode.  But I don't, so this one was definitely meh.  Will probs delete it off the DVR without rewatching.

 

Please, please do not let Charlie come back with all of the knowledge on how to save Dean because she is just *so* awesome.  This is a genuine fear of mine.

 

Oh and please have Dean stop calling Charlie "kiddo" every two seconds when they are obviously around the same age.

Edited January 28, 2015 by kimrey

[2Old2BAFangirl]

The whole premise of this episode was lame but I still liked it.

It's unbelievable that a human can look like Jensen Ackles.

Back later, commenting from my phone is too hard! Lol

[Kanner]

I really like the relationship between Dean and Charlie.

[catrox14]

Welp I pretty much hate this episode. 

 

Who was that guy wearing Dean's face?  I have never thought Jensen put in a bad episode ever in this show but I have no idea what the fuck he was supposed to be doing with Dean tonight.

 

Dark!Charlie was was just awful and I don't mean in a fun way.  

 

OH and NOW MONTHS LATER Sam and Cas after Dean beats the crap out of dark!Charlie they decide maybe Cas could look for Cain?? /head desk. 

 

Maybe upon rewatch I'll find something  to appreciate about this episode but right now? Even Jensen couldn't save this one for me. 

 

Also, so what Charlie is going to be on the run for murder or what?  Sigh.

[SueB]

 

Dean wasn't exactly the brightest in this episode.

 

IMO Dark Charlie was his (blatant) mirror and he kept trying to give her the benefit of the doubt.  He just wanted to see "Charlie" in Dark Charlie and couldn't accept that she would be so so dark. Because, of course, that meant HE couldn't be recovered.  Dean thinks he is Dark Dean right now and sees no GoodDean. So...Charlie (Dark and combo) busted him on a couple of his "moves" (was it denial and guilt...I can't remember), she knows him well.

 

 

Also, so what Charlie is going to be on the run for murder or what?  Sigh.

 

Since Dean was there, I'm presuming he cleaned up the crime scene.  I don't know what he did with the body but I'm sure he wiped the security. He clearly didn't chase after Charlie.  So...there's no reason to think he just headed to the bar.

 

I think I'm going to have to rewatch this episode to really unpack it all so I'll have more to say tomorrow.

 

I LOVED:

- The sense that we now have Charlie committed to the save Dean cause too.  It appears Cas is dedicated to that mission as well.  Which, when it comes right down to it, should be telling Dean something: he has people who love him and are not giving up on him.  I really like that message.

- That Charlie basically told Dean to stow his guilt shit and get over what happened.  He's not going to do that but I would have been pissed if she had been unwilling to approach Dean. 

- Dean is sooooo lost right now.  I don't think I've ever seen him struggle as much as he did tonight. I was so worried he was going to fall back into his drinking. I think he DID lose it in the end - AGAIN - with Charlie.  This is like the 4th or 5th time Sam's voice has stopped him.

 

I ENJOYED:

- Dean trying out the self-healing yoga crap.  But why the hell wasn't Sam there to kid him about it.  I think a part of Dean feels like this "cleansing" thing he's doing is worse than Hell. 

- Wrapping up the Oz story. I'd like Charlie back in the SPN universe and this seemed to put a good bow on it.

- Felicia Days performance as Combo Charlie.

- The wizard vs wizard bit.

 

NOT SO MUCH:

- Felicia as DarkCharlie.  Maybe it didn't feel right because it's not supposed to feel right.  But she was humorless. 

- Dean vs Charlie fight. It just hurt to watch. Again, maybe that was the intention. 

 

MISSED OPPORTUNITY

- This was Star Trek The Original Series "The Enemy Within". Where the hell was the Star Trek reference?  At least NiceCharlie should have mentioned it. 

 

So... I'm going to go watch again tomorrow when the iTunes is available.  I'm out of town with no access to my DVR.  I think Dean has lost the luxury of being suicidal (suicide=demon), so he's just up shit's creek without a paddle.  The alcoholism symbolism was a bit heavy handed but I think we are looking at a Dean in "recovery".  And the physical stuff is just a tiny piece.  It's the guilt, denial, anger, and acceptance of himself that are the bigger issues.  With every recover there are relapses.  It should be hard, I think I have to watch it some more to pickup on all the bits.

[TrininisaScorp]

I'm fairly meh about Charlie,  but I just love the scenes Felicia has with Jensen.  They are just sweet together.  **Cuddles**

 

I agree with the sentiment that the difference for Dean is going to be the people in his corner with Sam (of course), Cas and now Charlie.  I love Team Winchester and their loveable strays.  I just hope they get the win.

 

This was a bit of a filler episode and it isn't helping with the fairly uneven and at times glacial pacing we have this season. 

 

(shallow) Jensen continues to look insanely gorgeous.  I recently saw a s1 episode and while he's always been hot, the aging (IMO) has made him exceptionally handsome. (/shallow)

[catrox14]

I agree that Jensen looks better than ever.  He's just absurdly handsome. 

[Aeryn13]

That was atrociously bad. 

 

Felicia Day can not pull off dark. At all.

 

And while I expected the anvils, I did not expect Dean being dumbed down SOOOO much to accomodate her. Thompson is embarassing himself with the Charlie character and coming out on top every single time, especially at the expense of the main characters.

 

Again, Dean defending himself is presented as evil in some way. What a piece of crock.

 

The "you have these awesome people in your corner" message would also mean something more if I felt they had been awesome at it so far. Instead of terrible. The control Dean did pull off until now, he IMO largely did himself. Which I like but way to belittle anything HE accomplishes. Some more and forever.

 

In short: BAD.  

[cassandle]

Dean wasn't exactly the brightest in this episode.  He let DarkCharlie into the room with the guy who murdered her parents, and didn't even search her weapons.  He told DarkCharlie that Sam and LightCharlie were on that guy's trail, he didn't think that DarkCharlie would leave the bar, and didn't realize DarkCharlie was tailing him.  In this episode he was over 6 foot pure idiot, you put his brain in a parakeet, zing flies backwards.

I felt this way too.  I get that he probably didn't want to think Dark Charlie could really be all that bad but at least sit in the same room as her while she's questioning the guy.  He knew first hand how dangerous she was without a weapon so he should have known taking away the blade would have done no good.  I hate it when they write Dean as clueless.  He's a pretty good judge of people--he should have been able to see right through her especially knowing she was the "dark" version.  It's not like she was trying to pretend to be Good Charlie and fooled him.  At least he gave her the wrong town--that was something.

 

I do think that Dean beating up Charlie was much more effective than him taking out the room full of rapists.  That made me much more concerned about his potential to go evil.

 

All in all I thought that episode was pretty meh.  I like the relationship between Dean and Charlie but I'm not crazy about most of her episodes.  

[Ferniesfreckles]

Ugh, my craptacular cable service was fritzing throughout the damn episode. Missed half the dialogue and most of the last scene with Charlie and the boys.

I'm gonna have to wade through commercials to see it again On Demand.

From what I saw, I liked it. But then I do love Charlie and the relationship she has with Sam and Dean.

Loved Felicia's haircut.

[catrox14]

 

I do think that Dean beating up Charlie was much more effective than him taking out the room full of rapists.  That made me much more concerned about his potential to go evil.

 

Dean beating up Charlie via dark!Charlie is a real cheat to have Dean beating up Charlie which he would NEVER EVER do if Charlie wasn't really evil through and through.  But again it was self-defense with dark!Charlie.

 

My head hurts from the anvils....

[7kstar]

Yes, there are some bits that make you shake your head, like the trail they left behind but hopefully someone wiped it clean so it won't be so easy to trace it back to Charlie and Dean.

 

I really liked this one.  Yes the anvil was there comparing Dark Charlie to Dark Dean, but I found the pacing worked and it felt enjoyable.  I even want to watch it again and that is nice.  Also Charlie didn't easily find all the answers and really had to have some help.  On rewatch I'm sure I'll find more weak spots but for the most part I really enjoyed it.  Then I like Charlie most of the time.

 

I really loved the last shot with Jensen.  I thought using the camera angle really worked and made that last shot powerful.

 

Dean trying so hard to find a solution and failing.  But I really liked that he now has three people saying your not alone and Charlie calling him on his bull worked for me.

 

Looking forward to the next one too. 

[Wynne88]

I'm glad they're showing how difficult this is for Dean, and how hard he is struggling with his various issues, both physical and mental.  I also really liked Sam in this episode.  He actually had some things to do, and I liked the way that he was ready to jump in when Dean was questioning the DA (I think) if he went too far, but held back when Dean seemed to be in control.  It took way too long to show him as being concerned and supportive, but they're finally starting to get it right.

 

I didn't like dark Charlie.  I think that while Felicia Day does a good job playing quirky Charlie, she has a harder time pulling off the darker stuff.  I was glad Charlie made a point of going to Dean and making it clear that she forgave him and was firmly on his side at the end.

 

The special effect of having the two Charlies merge was excellent; but the wizard's arrival in the green glow and the glow stick handcuffs the wizard slapped on Sam were pretty hokey.  It was probably made worse because it was fairly obvious that Jared and Felicia were having to imagine what was happening and respond accordingly, only to have the effects added in later.

 

My favorite part?  No Crowley and mom scenes, and no off-topic Castiel scenes.  Thank you!

[Aeryn13]

 

But again it was self-defense with dark!Charlie.

Apparently, Dean is always supposed to be let himself be beaten to death. If he makes a move to defend himself, it`s a sign how much of an evil person he is. Strangely, that is only the case for him lately.  

Edited January 28, 2015 by Aeryn13

[rue721]

I really wanted them to go all Prank War on Bad!Charlie. Couldn't they incapacitate her without hurting her if they, Idk, put itching powder all over Good!Charlie or something? Just thought it could be funny.

 

How come Dean went vegetarian or something? If he's hungry, he's bound to be much more Bad!Dean than usual, js.

 

Who I really felt bad for was that bartender who was apparently pulling a double. I liked how fed up she seemed. I mean damn she even told Dean to order another. When he was rude/clueless and didn't, I was like YUP this is Bad!Dean taking over I guess. *harrumph*

 

To be honest, I mostly just found that episode incredibly boring. For a long while there (up until bad!Charlie killed the drunk driver, maybe?) I thought there would be a twist. Why couldn't there be at least *one* twist?

Edited January 28, 2015 by rue721

[cassandle]

Dean beating up Charlie via dark!Charlie is a real cheat to have Dean beating up Charlie which he would NEVER EVER do if Charlie wasn't really evil through and through.  But again it was self-defense with dark!Charlie.

 

 

Apparently, Dean is always supposed to be let himself be beaten to death. If he makes a move to defend himself, it`s a sign how much of an evil person he is. Strangely, that is only the case for him lately.  

 

I was actually okay with him beating up Dark Charlie at first because, yeah, self defense.  I totally thought he would just take the punches and try to buy Sam time and that irritated me until it was clear he was fighting back.  But when she was down and he kept wailing on her, that's when it started to bother me, regardless of what was happening to Good Charlie.  And what bothered me was how Dean was going to feel afterwards not so much how Charlie was doing (because I'm sort of awful).  I will also admit to laughing (because, seriously, I'm awful) about her getting her arm broken again like the first time she worked with them.

 

How come Dean went vegetarian or something? If he's hungry, he's bound to be much more Bad!Dean than usual, js.

 

And just because you stop drinking booze doesn't mean you have to drink wheatgrass or whatever the green crap was.  It's called Coke and it's delicious.

 

ETA:

 

I agree that Jensen looks better than ever.  He's just absurdly handsome.

It's a good thing I live alone because my constant, "Good Lord, that man is beautiful" and "No one should be that pretty" would probably get really annoying after the 10th time hearing it.

Edited January 28, 2015 by cassandle

[catrox14]

Okay, another peeve with the writing.

 

Charlie says the difference for Dean over Cain is that he's a Winchester.  Well.....um.  Didn't Michael say that the Winchesters were direct descendents of Cain....so how is that gonna help Dean?

[HunterHunted]

So bad. I'm going to go against the grain and say that Felicia Day did both a bad job with good and bad Charlie. She was terrible in demonstrating how good Charlie was different from regular Charlie. And bad Charlie didn't seem to be particularly invested in staying bad because we were left with a plot we knew they would/couldn't handle.

[rue721]

Okay, another peeve with the writing.

 

Charlie says the difference for Dean over Cain is that he's a Winchester.  Well.....um.  Didn't Michael say that the Winchesters were direct descendents of Cain....so how is that gonna help Dean?

 

Wait, Cain had kids?

[catrox14]

Wait, Cain had kids?

 

I guess. It's always bothered me that since this entire MoC SL came about they haven't actually bothered to address the Winchesters being in the bloodline of Cain.

 

It would seem so. From The Song Remians the Same.

MICHAEL:You're my true vessel but not my only one.

DEAN:What is that supposed to mean?

MICHAEL:It's a bloodline.

DEAN:A bloodline?

MICHAEL: Stretching back to Cain and Abel. It's in your blood, your father's blood, your family's blood.

[cassandle]

Biblical Cain was cursed and marked by God after he killed Abel so people would see the mark and know not to kill him for Abel's murder, then he "had relations" with his wife and bore children.  Whether he had children before that isn't mentioned.  Supernatural Cain could have had children before he sold his soul and they could have been the ancestors of Dean and Sam but I'm not sure how he could have children once he was a demon.  Can demons procreate if they're full-on demon and not just wearing a meat suit?  At any rate I'm guessing they just forgot the vessel storyline when they came up with this one.

[catrox14]

Why wouldn't demons be able to procreate? They still have sex as we saw with demon!Dean and they are still in a human meatsuit.  Oh gods, if they bring Ann Marie back with as a demon baby Mama, I'm just gonna quit.

 

Jesse, the anti-christ was the spawn of a demon in a human meatsuit wasn't he?

Edited January 28, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

The woman the demon possessed was a virgin. Somehow the demon possessing her made her pregnant when he possessed her. I'm guessing that this doesn't usually happen which is why we don't have anti-christs walking around all over the place. Because otherwise demons could just go around possessing virgins and voila - new antichrist.

[catrox14]

I guess I'm thinking there is technically no reason a demon that is it's own meatsuit like Dean couldn't spawn a child with a human. I mean they aren't like angels who are apparently junkless. 

 

So if Cain was his own meatsuit, like Dean then he could have children. Or if a woman is her own meatsuit she could get pregnant by a human man, or even another demon in it's own meatsuit.

Edited January 28, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

Yes, I think you're right, catrox14. It should be different if the demon is his/her own meatsuit so to speak, because they aren't just black smoke possessing someone. And assuming the body is technically still alive (as in it his viable reproductive capabilities). Ruby did say that even with a demon possessing a body that the body was "warm" so I'm assuming that even though technically they don't have to eat, etc. that otherwise the body functions like a usual body. I guess?

[cassandle]

That's what I was wondering…if they ever specifically said one way or another that a demon (as opposed to a possessed person) could reproduce.  And if DemonCain had offspring wouldn't they be demon-y like Jesse the Antichrist?  

 

 

[Demented Daisy]

Never would have pegged Sam and/or Dean for Genesis fans.

 

And just because you stop drinking booze doesn't mean you have to drink wheatgrass or whatever the green crap was.  It's called Coke and it's delicious.

 

Green smoothies, made properly, can be delicious.  Just saying.  :-)

 

Dean didn't realize Baby was following him?  Yeah, sure, whatever.

 

I preferred Haven's Audrey/Mara.  At least Emily Rose looked like she was having fun being Mara.  Felicia Day was trying too hard to be a scary badass -- and it showed.

[AwesomO4000]

Castiel didn't say so, but I'm guessing that the mother was a virgin was maybe important, but I don't know. And technically with a demon Cain and his wife, she wouldn't be a virgin when he got her pregnant. Did we even know if Dean could "smoke out" of his body? If not then I'm guessing Cain couldn't either. No smoking into a host, no pregnant virgin.

[rue721]

MICHAEL: Stretching back to Cain and Abel. It's in your blood, your father's blood, your family's blood.

 

Thanks! You know how sloppy this show tends to be with "lore"/canon stuff, I wonder if it'll ever come up again.

 

So bad. I'm going to go against the grain and say that Felicia Day did both a bad job with good and bad Charlie. She was terrible in demonstrating how good Charlie was different from regular Charlie. And bad Charlie didn't seem to be particularly invested in staying bad because we were left with a plot we knew they would/couldn't handle.

 

IA that good!Charlie was pretty terrible. I kept thinking that it would turn out that bad!Charlie was going to be the "real" Charlie, and preemptively got annoyed with the corniness of that supposed twist, and then got even more annoyed when it turned out there wasn't going to be any twist at all!

 

Bad!Charlie wanted to be "with" good!Charlie anyway, so I'm not even sure what the supposed conflict was. Maybe it would have been more interesting to have them working as a team?

 

Thinking of it now, if they want to do an "evil shadow self" SL, then I wish SPN would go ahead and do a crossover with Katherine Pierce/Elena Gilbert. How fun would that be? Nina Dobrev would kill it.

 

And just because you stop drinking booze doesn't mean you have to drink wheatgrass or whatever the green crap was.  It's called Coke and it's delicious.

 

This is petty, but the health food "running gag" annoyed me because it seemed like such lazy writing.

 

Something in that same vein -- wasn't it weird how there was so much focus on Dean trying not to have a drink and no focus at all on him trying not to fight/carry weapons/kill? I get the metaphor but I thought the actual addiction was to killing. I didn't actually think that the drinking itself was a huge problem. Sam seemed like he hadn't even noticed that Dean hadn't drunk all week? It's not that important, I just don't quite understand how to take the metaphor as a metaphor when it's also literally true within the show (does that make sense or is that completely inarticulate?).

 

I guess I'm thinking there is technically no reason a demon that is it's own meatsuit like Dean couldn't spawn a child with a human.

 

I would think so? Even regardless of whether the demon is possessing "himself" or not, wouldn't he be able to conceive children -- they would just be regular children with the "meatsuit" human as their biological parent?

 

Maybe Cain is capable of having biological kids currently, considering he's in his own body and had healing powers until very recently (if not even now -- does he still have them, do you think, since he still has the Mark?). It would be pretty interesting and fun if Cain were to have a family that he'd formed *while* he was a demon and that's still doing well now, considering the "can't have a family!" arcs they've had for Dean in the past. But I doubt the show would ever do that, unfortunately.

[SueB]

 

Couldn't they incapacitate her without hurting her if they, Idk, put itching powder all over Good!Charlie or something?

LOL.  Actually, that is a massive plot hole.  They should have just chloroformed Good!Charlie and Dark!Charlie would sleep. 

[Iguana]

Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I was at the ER getting all the head wounds from the multiple falling anvils tended to. Ouch. Subtle, this ep was not. I'm pretty sure we didn't need to be flogged quite so hard with the good Charlie/bad Charlie and good Dean/MoC Dean parallels. And it would have been better if Dean trying to give bad Charlie the benefit of the doubt didn't come across as Duh Dean quite as much.

That doesn't mean I hated it though. I like how they wrapped up the Oz storyline and made it clear that going back wasn't going to be an option. I liked how the wizard turned out to be another version of the split personality and that mortally wounding his Earth half forced the Wizard to come back from Oz. I like Sam being supportive and helpful and that they didn't pull any punches (heh) with Dean beating the crap out of bad Charlie. And I think they made a good choice to make it clear that Charlie didn't have any lingering fear or resentment with Dean over what he did, because it's nice for at least one friendship on the show not to be fraught with all the angst in the world.

[Pete Martell]

Oh and please have Dean stop calling Charlie "kiddo" every two seconds when they are obviously around the same age.

 

I don't think it's about age, more about role in life. Charlie acts younger than her age and it's easy for Dean to see her as a kid sister figure. I've seen this type of thing more than once in real life - probably one of the more realistic things in an unrealistic show.

And just because you stop drinking booze doesn't mean you have to drink wheatgrass or whatever the green crap was.  It's called Coke and it's delicious.

 

If he's trying to cut out anything that would hype him up, Coke would probably do that too. 

[catrox14]

I f Dean was trying to cut anything tha twould hype him up shouldn't he try to drink as much whiskey as possible since alcohol is more of a depressant. What he really needs is some Xanax

[Pete Martell]

And while I expected the anvils, I did not expect Dean being dumbed down SOOOO much to accomodate her. Thompson is embarassing himself with the Charlie character and coming out on top every single time, especially at the expense of the main characters.

 

I think this is one occasion where I actually would have preferred he did write Charlie as above or separate from the main characters (as she was in some of her early episodes), because I think Thompson tried to integrate her into the main story thread this time (I think Dean's mistakes were more about idiot plotting than about Charlie = awesome) and it diluted both her story and theirs. 

 

I don't think the attempt to compare Dean's darkness story to Charlie's worked all that well, mostly because Dean was never divided into two - Demon Dean was intertwined with him. I get the idea, but the execution...not the best. I think the only way this would have worked is if "good" Charlie directly confronted and defeated "bad" Charlie.

IA that good!Charlie was pretty terrible. I kept thinking that it would turn out that bad!Charlie was going to be the "real" Charlie, and preemptively got annoyed with the corniness of that supposed twist, and then got even more annoyed when it turned out there wasn't going to be any twist at all!

 

Bad!Charlie wanted to be "with" good!Charlie anyway, so I'm not even sure what the supposed conflict was. Maybe it would have been more interesting to have them working as a team?

 

Thinking of it now, if they want to do an "evil shadow self" SL, then I wish SPN would go ahead and do a crossover with Katherine Pierce/Elena Gilbert. How fun would that be? Nina Dobrev would kill it.

 

Dean and Sam would end up falling in love with her. 

 

I think "bad" Charlie was trying to corrupt "good" Charlie and wanted her to agree to let "bad" Charlie be dominant, the way that the "bad" version of the Wizard was (I thought the guy who played the "good" version did a good job - not sure who the actor was).

[Pete Martell]

So bad. I'm going to go against the grain and say that Felicia Day did both a bad job with good and bad Charlie. She was terrible in demonstrating how good Charlie was different from regular Charlie. And bad Charlie didn't seem to be particularly invested in staying bad because we were left with a plot we knew they would/couldn't handle.

 

I think the writing really should have been more colorful than it was. Thompson is such a "cute" writer, but this was one time where he dialed it way back for some reason. I would have had "good" Charlie telling Sam and Dean that they should clean up their acts, stopping everything to help an old lady cross the street, etc. Yes it's silly and stupid, but it would have shown how the division caused her to be easily distracted and made more of a contrast. 

 

I'll be in the minority and say I actually sort of liked her work as "bad" Charlie. Not so much at first, but as it went along, I liked her detached demeanor and how she passed this off as just being truthful. I could see why Dean fell for it (the first time anyway). I thought Felicia Day and Jensen Ackles had a good rapport in these scenes. It also showed me why he and Charlie are so close - because he can connect to both sides of her. I'm glad they didn't have her as being wild and slutty, or even worse, trying to seduce Dean. I just wish they'd done more with "good" Charlie so it wouldn't have blurred together.

 

I also thought Felicia was good in her last scene when Sam was asking her about the integration of the two Charlies, and she struggled to talk about it. Probably my favorite part of the episode. 

Again, Dean defending himself is presented as evil in some way. What a piece of crock.

 

The "you have these awesome people in your corner" message would also mean something more if I felt they had been awesome at it so far. Instead of terrible. The control Dean did pull off until now, he IMO largely did himself. Which I like but way to belittle anything HE accomplishes. Some more and forever.

 

I don't think they're saying he's evil. I think they're saying he's losing control. 

 

Yes, they should do more to have people support Dean in intelligent ways (instead of the second consecutive episode where Sam lets him go off on his own for extended periods of time), but I don't think saying "we're here for you" means he's a failure and can't do it on his own. I think it's something Dean probably needs to hear, because he's spent his whole life thinking he's on his own and is just there to try to help other people.

[Primetimer]

Dean is eating egg whites, so he's as cranky as you'd expect.

Read the story

[DittyDotDot]

I was sitting here watching this episode, when suddenly I awoke with a massive headache and this huge iron thingy sitting next to me. What's that all about?

 

Random, pointless and completely unimportant thoughts:

• Felicia Day doesn't have the chops to pull this sort of nuance off.
• Is anti-authority disorder an actual thing or did Sam just pull a funny?
• Dean is not this stupid.
• Does Dean seriously think his bad eating habits and drinking are his triggers? Really? And does he also not realize going cold turkey will probably present a whole other host of issues? Whatever.

 

Since I have nothing nice to say about the writing/story side of things, I'll move over to the production side. I think Phil Scriggia was channeling his inner-Manners here. Did you guys notice how he stacked folks deep in the frame? I'm not sure he got the framing spot on, but it got me all nostalgic at times. Also, this episode seemed even brighter and more colorful than the color and brightness as of late--that had to be a conscious choice, right? Nice job keeping something slightly subtle here Mr. Scriggia. Also, have you guys noticed all the fancy shots of Baby driving this season. Very cool!

 

Continuing to play my "ooh, wasn't he/she in a previous episode" game--S10 is ripe with 'em. Not that I mind, I understand it must be difficult to find fresh faces on their budget after 10 years. Plus, it does give my brain something to do while watching.

 

 

 

kimrey, on 27 Jan 2015 - 9:11 PM, said:kimrey, on 27 Jan 2015 - 9:11 PM, said:

Oh and please have Dean stop calling Charlie "kiddo" every two seconds when they are obviously around the same age.

 

But isn't Charlie supposed to be much younger? I was thinking late 20s? Regardless, I think it's a mid-Western thing that doesn't have anything to do with age. I noticed it when I first moved out here and it took me a while to get used to it, but now I find it a kind of charming regional colloquialism. I get called "kid" and "kiddo" all the time--and I'm not spring chicken, let me tell you--sometimes by folks that are younger than me. I'm finding it fits nicely with the tone of the show. Kinda on par with how Sam and Dean are always called boys when they are obviously grown men.

 

rue721, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:31 PM, said:rue721, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:31 PM, said:

I really wanted them to go all Prank War on Bad!Charlie. Couldn't they incapacitate her without hurting her if they, Idk, put itching powder all over Good!Charlie or something? Just thought it could be funny.

 

I was thinking something very similar. This episode was a lot of wasted potential, IMO. Sigh.

 

cassandle, on 28 Jan 2015 - 12:32 AM, said:cassandle, on 28 Jan 2015 - 12:32 AM, said:

Biblical Cain was cursed and marked by God after he killed Abel so people would see the mark and know not to kill him for Abel's murder, then he "had relations" with his wife and bore children.  Whether he had children before that isn't mentioned.  Supernatural Cain could have had children before he sold his soul and they could have been the ancestors of Dean and Sam but I'm not sure how he could have children once he was a demon.  Can demons procreate if they're full-on demon and not just wearing a meat suit?  At any rate I'm guessing they just forgot the vessel storyline when they came up with this one.

 

This discussion had me thinking of where this could lead, but will take my thinky thoughts to the spec thread...

Edited January 28, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[Latverian Diplomat]

And while I expected the anvils, I did not expect Dean being dumbed down SOOOO much to accomodate her. Thompson is embarassing himself with the Charlie character and coming out on top every single time, especially at the expense of the main characters.

 

Again, Dean defending himself is presented as evil in some way. What a piece of crock.

 

Dean beating up Charlie via dark!Charlie is a real cheat to have Dean beating up Charlie which he would NEVER EVER do if Charlie wasn't really evil through and through.  But again it was self-defense with dark!Charlie.

But again it was self-defense with dark!Charlie.

 

My head hurts from the anvils....

 

Apparently, Dean is always supposed to be let himself be beaten to death. If he makes a move to defend himself, it`s a sign how much of an evil person he is. Strangely, that is only the case for him lately.  

 

I know this is hard to remember in stand-your-ground America, but self-defense ends when the other person is down. You do not then have license to punch their face in while they are lying there helpless.

 

The progression of  the fight was very clearly:

1) Dean holding back, trying not to hurt Charlie, doesn't trust himself, losing

2) Dean gets more aggressive, breaks Charlie's arm, wins the fight

3) Dean loses control, starts to beat Charlie to death

 

The Mark of Cain thing has never been about Dean isn't allowed to defend himself, it is about losing control. The fight progressed in a way that is exactly consistent with that, and IMHO, illustrated it well.

 

I guess it needed more anvil for some people to get that.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[Latverian Diplomat]

And just because you stop drinking booze doesn't mean you have to drink wheatgrass or whatever the green crap was.  It's called Coke and it's delicious.

 

I think it was implied that Dean is trying to emulate Cain's lifestyle, which seemed to include a very strict and healthy diet.

 

Of course, a more important part of Cain's lifestyle was isolation in a serene, pastoral environment, but clearly, Dean finds that even less appealing than kale. 

Edited January 28, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[Pete Martell]

 

• Dean is not this stupid. Does he seriously think his bad eating habits and drinking are his triggers? Really? And does he also not realize going cold turkey will probably present a whole other host of issues? Whatever.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with being stupid. Dean is trying to find some control in a situation where he has no real control. He knows this, and he knows it's getting worse. The tapes and cutting back on his drinking and eating healthy food are his way of trying to find any way he can to stave off the inevitable. I'd also guess that as he grew up seeing his father lose control when drunk, he probably associates that with behavioral changes. 

[DittyDotDot]

I don't think it has anything to do with being stupid. Dean is trying to find some control in a situation where he has no real control. He knows this, and he knows it's getting worse. The tapes and cutting back on his drinking and eating healthy food are his way of trying to find any way he can to stave off the inevitable. I'd also guess that as he grew up seeing his father lose control when drunk, he probably associates that with behavioral changes. 

 

Right, but he doesn't think he should put away the knives, too? Just saying.

 

But my "Dean is not this stupid" should've had a return after it...it was meant to be a comment about how foolish Dean was written in the episode, not about the health kick he was on. I'll go edit.

[Pete Martell]

Right, but he doesn't think he should put away the knives, too? Just saying.

 

He can't (although it seems like they are spending less and less time on hunting or getting involved in danger, as the last few episodes have mostly involved only getting involved when they're asked or know the people in question), since that's the life they lead, but he can control some other parts of his life, which he was trying to do.

 

I thought the focus on food and alcohol was heavy-handed writing, but I guess I could handwave it because I saw it as more of the same identity crisis Dean has been having for a long time now, especially the last few seasons. 

[cassandle]

From the recap:  

 

I have to think the egg whites-and-kale diet is just going to make Dean do something crazy, like run naked through a McDonald's or kill the entire work staff of a Whole Foods.

 

I'd be okay with his change in diet if this is the outcome :)

 

Something else that occurred to me last night...did Dean quit drinking cold turkey?  For someone who's been drinking pretty regularly for at least 10 years now shouldn't he have the shakes or something?  They showed him shaking when he had the knife in his hand but nothing that pointed towards alcohol withdrawal.  If anyone here is a Leverage fan there was a great episode where the functioning alcoholic had to go to rehab and Timothy Hutton played the hell out of the withdrawal effects.  I would have expected something more like that for a character who woke up one day and decided to change his diet.

[DittyDotDot]

He can't (although it seems like they are spending less and less time on hunting or getting involved in danger, as the last few episodes have mostly involved only getting involved when they're asked or know the people in question), since that's the life they lead, but he can control some other parts of his life, which he was trying to do.

 

He can't put away the weaponry? Sure he can, its a choice, just like everything else. He could choose to not actively hunt right now, but still be a hunter's helper. Or he could decide to leave the weapons behind and lean on Sam more to pick up the slack. My point more was though, Dean put away things that don't actually fuel the Mark instead of looking at the things that do--which seems rather un-Dean-like to me. Also, I just can't believe that he doesn't realize he'd be kind of a lose cannon going cold turkey like that and probably be more dangerous. Again, seems rather un-Dean-like to me.

[Pete Martell]

How long was it supposed to have been since the last episode? Maybe he had the worst symptoms then.

He can't put away the weaponry? Sure he can, its a choice, just like everything else. He could choose to not actively hunt right now, but still be a hunter's helper. Or he could decide to leave the weapons behind and lean on Sam more to pick up the slack. My point more was though, Dean put away things that don't actually fuel the Mark instead of looking at the things that do--which seems rather un-Dean-like to me. Also, I just can't believe that he doesn't realize he'd be kind of a lose cannon going cold turkey like that and probably be more dangerous. Again, seems rather un-Dean-like to me.

 

I got the feeling he and Sam actually had chosen to spend less and less time hunting, but in the end they can never completely stop, since the last few times they've mostly been working to try to help people they care about (I think every case since the Jody episode has been like that). He can't just stop using weapons, because he and Sam are pretty much on their own, as always. He can control other parts of his life (alcohol or foods) so was focused on that. 

 

I also assumed he may have stopped drinking some time back, depending on how long ago the last episode was supposed to be, but I don't know.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Pete Martell

[Julia]

Continuing to play my "ooh, wasn't he/she in a previous episode" game--S10 is ripe with 'em. Not that I mind, I understand it must be difficult to find fresh faces on their budget after 10 years. Plus, it does give my brain something to do while watching.

 

Carson Beckett! Who was also the guy who was arrested for murdering his friend with James Dean's car in the Paris Hilton episode.

[Pete Martell]

The guy who played Odin in "Hammer of the Gods" was also in this.

[catrox14]

Cain wasn't a teetotaler or Mr healthy lifestyle that I could discern. He was drinking beer and shucking corn whilst Dean was fighting demons in his kitchen. Cain had to live away with bees for his peace of mind and because he promised Collett he would stop killing. Seems to me it's just a stupid metaphor for Deans apparent addiction issues and sudden awareness of his health.