S05.E04: Bye Bye Pittsburgh

[OnceSane]

LA is only one week away and JoJo and Jess return to fight for a spot on the ALDC and are determined not to lose again. As the team prepares for their big Hollywood adventure, Holly and Jill grow concerned that Abby's focus will only be on her favorites and Nia and Kendall will be forgotten. After hearing about Maddie's next big Los Angeles opportunity, Holly and Jill vow to make matters in their own hands.

[DoctorWhovian]

I know that after a teacher says the things that Abby said to JoJo's mom, I would totally bring my daughter back to be subjected to more! Fame!

[serenitynow]

Maddy didn't even dance last week and still beat Nia and Kendall on the pyramid. Good grief.

And I don't care what kind of obnoxious kid JoJo is, it's not cool for Kira to mimick her speech.

[jmt111]

Has Maddy been 11 for about 5 years?!

[Jellowslr]

Um, did we just witness a mom dyeing her young child's hair? Now I don't have kids so someone tell me otherwise...but to me this is all wrong.

[Gianthambeast]

Man I hate these routines where Abby references a movie or a TV show.  Or even worse, her afterschool special-style "consciousness-raising" crapola. Same tired formula.    

Edited January 28, 2015 by Gianthambeast

[tessa]

OMG - these episodes get worse every week. For years, Abby has proclaimed how good her girls are that they beat the older girls and now she's upset that 2 are in the teen category. Well - #1 - you should have checked the competition rules and #2. Your girls should be good enough to beat these older girls - the problem is stale choreography and kids you've beat before have come into their own and are now just as good as your girls.

 

I thought Maddie did a great job - but was it rigged? even if it wasn't - were the judges more favorable due to who she was? Kendall's dance - I wouldn't even call a dance - a few turns, a few jumps - nothing great and I'm surprised she even came in third. JoJo did well - I hate the kid's personality - but I noticed that the first place dancer in her division was a boy - and what has Abby always said about boys - they get higher scores - so don't blame 3rd place on JoJo, who I think did a better dance than Kendall.

 

I don't know how much control Abby actual really has over the girls - the Zieglers have publicists, booking managers ect and there is no one named Abby Lee Miller representing them and we all know Abby would expect to be front and center. If anything - she's splintering the group because Maddie and maybe Mac will have so much going on - they won't have time for the ALDC.

 

I also thought that was a cheap shot at Christy again in Abby's remark to Jessalyn. Abby needs to grow up as she succeeded in getting the problem moms out of there - so let it be or maybe she's realizing that they lost quite a few viewers as many loved the the girls and their moms, Kelly and Christy.

[goodbyeglittergirl]

This episode was so boring. And I can't believe (well really I guess I can) that JoJo's mom dyes her hair. For Pete's sake. 

 

A rare Nia's dad sighting - I would love to hear his thoughts on Dance Moms, to be honest! 

[cali1981]

I don't know how much control Abby actual really has over the girls - the Zieglers have publicists, booking managers ect and there is no one named Abby Lee Miller representing them and we all know Abby would expect to be front and center. If anything - she's splintering the group because Maddie and maybe Mac will have so much going on - they won't have time for the ALDC.

 

 

So  now Abby is the girls' manager?  When did that happen? Why would Holly or Jill or Kira ever agree to that?  Maybe it's just another phony plot device by the scumbag producers but who knows?  I was hoping that Abby did pull Nia for JoJo because it might have finally pushed Holly over the edge.  JoJo's mother is a horror but frankly no more so than Melissa who would pimp her kids out in a New York second.  I love the way the Abby keeps proclaiming that LA is the the place to be to get jobs in the industry.  Of course that's only if your last name is Ziegler.  If not, the best of luck to you and have a nice day. 

 

Why was Abby so shocked at how the divisions were determined in yet another bogus competition.  As the studio owner, it's her responsibility to know everything about any event she is competing in.  I guess she was just too busy to notice.  In the real world that's usually known as gross incompetence or negligence. 

Edited January 28, 2015 by cali1981

[TomGirl]

I can't say exactly why I feel this way, but I thought it was in poor taste to show Nia's ailing grandfather and to dedicate the show to his memory. Did Grandpa ever watch the show? Does he know how Abby treated his granddaughter?

[cali1981]

You notice how Kalani seems to be nothing but background noise now?  Hopefully Kira didn't foolishly lock her and Kalani into another of those slavery contracts.

Edited January 28, 2015 by cali1981

[Amers]

I thought it was awful to make fun of a child's speech, especially in front of her! Insanely mean.

Jojo's mom loves attention. She is a mean girl who never developed past a middle school level. I don't think I've ever seen such a vile, mean spirited person on a show involving children. I can't watch if she stays on. There's drama, and then there is mean.

[spanana]

I keep saying I'm not watching anymore and then I'll catch an episode, or part of an episode, by accident.  I wish I could quit this trainwreck completely.  Have to say I love all the promos making it look like Abby is on the verge of a nervous breakdown thanks to the evil Kelly and Christi, and then all the other moms taking up for Abby.  Yeah, okay.  I guess you have to toe the company line if you want your kid to have a continued job.  Not saying Kelly and Christi are innocent, but neither is Abby.

 

Oh look, Abby is faux shocked about the age requirements at a faux competition.  Isn't it part of being a good business person to check the rules of a competition before entering?  Make Gia do it.  She needs something to do besides being mini Abby in training.

 

I also thought it was bad taste to show Nia's grandfather on camera. 

[Lemons]

I'm sure abby not knowing the age requirements was just part of the shows "plot". But I'm not surprised that Maddie won, she really is extraordinary for her age. I also think that the girls group dances are usually pretty clean. Usually you see a lot of sloppiness in competition dances as they try to add in more and more tricks and advanced moves that the dancers aren't ready for. Judges must be sick to death of countless badly performed fouettes from preteens.

[Shell76]

Last night's episode was the first, this season, that I've watched in full.  It was rather boring and a bit tasteless that Nia's grandfather was featured.  I was really bothered that Nia's tears seemed like they were party fueled by her fear of Abby's wrath, when she told Abby she may need to leave L.A. at some point.  Poor girl, I think she has learned to keep an emotional distance with Abby.  When Abby brought her in for a hug, Nia wouldn't lay her hand on Abby's shoulder.  Later when Abby brought Nia in for a cheek-to-cheek, she had an "Okay, let me go" look on her face.  She seems to know what's going on, and I think she'll be fine once the gig is up.

 

I remember learning about JoJo's hair dyeing when she was on AUDC, and I think it's been going on since she was three years old.  I also remember that she is homeschooled, though I'm not sure if it's because of dance or just a family choice.  I think she desperately needs to be around other kids.  I admire the kid's confidence, and I think she can handle any teasing she gets for her lisp, but she needs to learn how to "shut it off" in certain situations.  Her mother's failure to realize this is infuriating.  If JoJo was really begging dancewear companies for free clothes and bragging about them to the other girls, that has to stop, NOW.  Both mother and daughter are stubborn and unteachable, so I have no clue why Abby has kept them around this long.  Still, shame on Kira for making fun of Jojo right in front of her. 

 

As for the results, I think Maddie and Kendall made out in the end by being in the Teen category (thank you Jill for explaining this 10 different ways).  I'm thinking any other studio entering this comp (it looked legit?) probably brought in all their best Junior dancers, assuming they would go up against the ALDC girls.  Maddie was just Maddie, for better or worse, and I was unimpressed by Kendall.  Kendall danced okay, but her non-costume and poor choice in hairstyle hurt the overall image.  I think JoJo did very well, better than Kendall, at least.  The Frozen number was nice, but standard ALDC fare -  don't think it would have deserved 1st in any competition.  This is the first group dance I've watched this season, and Mack really stands out now, for good and bad.  She looks so small with the others, and I think it's more noticeable now with Kalani in the group.  I think Abby needs to add a couple younger dancers to even out the group. 

Edited January 28, 2015 by Shell76

[Lukeysboat]

At least a couple of posts have mentioned JoJo's lisp, which has me questioning whether I'm missing something. I do not hear a lisp at all, but rather rhotacism--a mispronunciation of the R.

I should add that I agree it is in poor taste to mock a child's speech problem. Sad.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Lukeysboat

[spanana]

I'm sure abby not knowing the age requirements was just part of the shows "plot". But I'm not surprised that Maddie won, she really is extraordinary for her age. I also think that the girls group dances are usually pretty clean. Usually you see a lot of sloppiness in competition dances as they try to add in more and more tricks and advanced moves that the dancers aren't ready for. Judges must be sick to death of countless badly performed fouettes from preteens.

 

I'm not surprised that Maddie won.  It was likely a fake competition, so of course the storyline is that Maddie will beat all the teen dancers because she is just so amazing.

[Tasya]

This competition was an invitational but there were some really good studios there (i'm being biased because my niece's studio was there). Strictly Rhythm in particular is really fantastic, they were the group to take 1st place and to have the 1st place overall dancer (Maddie won her division but was 2nd overall). I haven't watched the episode yet so I'm not sure if they showed the fact that Maddie didn't take 1st in the overalls. I've said many times that while Dance Moms does do some manipulating, it's likely not in the judges results. They just do stuff like showing overall results vs division depending on what scenario they want to tout. 

[BusyOctober]

Just figured out who JoJo's mom reminded me of...only she's blonde vs. red head.  I think it's the pursed bad shade of red lips.

 

Someone said it before but JoJo has got to GoGo.  What a brat!  And her mother is a walking definition of a stage mom.

 

[spidermiss2426]

At least a couple of posts have mentioned JoJo's lisp, which has me questioning whether I'm missing something. I do not hear a lisp at all, but rather rhotacism--a mispronunciation of the R.

I should add that I agree it is in poor taste to mock a child's speech problem. Sad.

 

Yes, it is her Rs that are mispronounced.  I wonder if she is in speech therapy?  If not, she needs to be. 

 

It is difficult for me to process that JoJo (I'm so glad I caught my typo, I accidentally typed Joho) is 11.  I keep seeing her as 9 or 8 for some reason.  Her attitude needs to be nipped in the bud though.  Having fire and spirit is a great thing, it'll keep her going in the dance world.  But copping an attitude will keep her out of the professional part of any industry.

 

And for an adult to mock her speech like that, is totally wrong.

[Gloriosa]

Geeze, that "Frozen Together" music made me wince.  Awful, awful, awful.

[Absolom]

1.396 M viewers and a .6 rating. 

[RedheadZombie]

Um, did we just witness a mom dyeing her young child's hair? Now I don't have kids so someone tell me otherwise...but to me this is all wrong.

 

I may be completely making this up, but I seem to remember that her mom mentioned on AUDC, that she's been bleaching her hair since she was two.

 

And I don't care what kind of obnoxious kid JoJo is, it's not cool for Kira to mimick her speech.

 

That was horrible, and I noticed that JoJo's mom didn't challenge it right there.  She's proven she's just like Melissa - she'll let her child be attacked and not step up to defend her on the spot.  At least Kira acknowledged how wrong it was for Abby to scream at JoJo in the dressing room.  Her anger seemed genuine.  It was one of the rare moments I felt for JoJo and liked Kira.

 

I also thought that was a cheap shot at Christy again in Abby's remark to Jessalyn. Abby needs to grow up as she succeeded in getting the problem moms out of there - so let it be or maybe she's realizing that they lost quite a few viewers as many loved the the girls and their moms, Kelly and Christy.

 

Abby continues to blame Kelly's lawsuit on Christy. 

[RedheadZombie]

Is it really that shocking that twelve years old would compete in a twelve-fourteen year old category?

[KaveDweller]

Is it really that shocking that twelve years old would compete in a twelve-fourteen year old category?

 

They seemed to be making a big deal about nothing.  Yes, they were in the teen category instead of junior, but all the other 12-year-olds were in the category too. Jill's comment about the girls being up against people twice their age was a bit over the top.  I get that they were at the young end of the range, but if they're that good shouldn't they be able to beat someone a year or two older than them?

[Darknight]

Jojo mom said on AUDC that she's been bleaching her daughters hair since two. Jojo said she's homeschooled because regular school isn't good enough for her. She's too smart for the other kids. I hope Jessa Lynn is getting jojo speech because I can hardly understand her.

They seemed to be making a big deal about nothing. Yes, they were in the teen category instead of junior, but all the other 12-year-olds were in the category too. Jill's comment about the girls being up against people twice their age was a bit over the top. I get that they were at the young end of the range, but if they're that good shouldn't they be able to beat someone a year or two older than them?

This. I don't get. They claim they're the best yet bitch about competing in a higher category. 12-14 is teen at some competitions. Unless Jill likes competing as juniors 10-12. Competing against a 10 year old is much easier than competing against a 14 year old.

[missbonnie]

maybe she's realizing that they lost quite a few viewers as many loved the the girls and their moms, Kelly and Christy.

I am not seeing this. Everyone that I know that watches or watched the show was or is, myself included, missing Chloe. Period. Brooke and Paige don't have what it takes to be on this kind of twisted show, couldn't dance their way out of a paper bag and had zero personality. Everyone is in total agreement that thank God Kellie and her button pushing buddy Christi are gone. Of course that's just the opinion of the people I know, harsh but true. That's not to say that we don't all also think that ALM is missing a few fries from her happy meal.

Edited January 29, 2015 by missbonnie

[tessa]

Well to each their own - the friends I know that watch , or have stopped watching, actually miss all the original girls and Kelly and Christy. They feel the moms now don't take Abby to task for her actions. Yes Holly has spoken up a couple of times - but Kira and Jill - though they might make a comment - don't follow through as they think Abby indeed will make their kids the next great star.

 

Without rewatching it - does anyone remember what TV show Maddie was supposedly auditioning for? I think Abby said it was a new TV show.

 

And yes - when Jill talked about the girls in that division being twice Abby's girls age I had to laugh - again Jill over exaggerating. If it wasn't for Jill, I don't really think Kendall would be on the team as she's too quiet and lacks personality to me. Don't get me wrong - I think she's a really nice girl and cute but doesn't stand out.

 

Also - wasn't it just a couple of episodes ago that when Maddie wasn't there for the group dance and came in second - Abby pronounced that had Maddie been there they would have came in first. Well you had your precious Maddie and they still came in second.

 

Despite my lack of love for Melissa - I really hate the hole this show has dug for Maddie - she has lovers and haters - all because of Abby's favortism. It's not unusual for teacher's to have a teacher's pet and usually the other kids notice that and the teacher's pet takes some harrassing from the other students ( I know - I was one ) but to proclaim on a weekly basis that Maddie is the best - you would have won if Maddie was here ect.. ect.. has put that poor child into a difficult situation. It's good that she learn that she isn't always everyone's favorite but it should be about who the real Maddie is not due to an outsiders involvement.

[dmmetler]

As someone who still occasionally loses my /r/ sounds, especially in medial or final position, after about 15 YEARS of speech therapy, I have to say that Jojo's speech isn't all that bad. She's over the threshold of understandability that is usually required to exit PS speech, and it's not necessarily a good value to remediate speech past that point. Honestly, drama and vocal music classes helped more than speech once I'd gotten down to only a few sounds that weren't constant.

The big difference, though, is that most people with long-standing speech issues don't go on TV.

[leighroda]

I agree about not making fun of Jojo's speech if it's a true impediment. I had a lisp growing up and went to speech therapy for years, and the lisp sometimes still slips up, and I'm 32. In general I have what most consider a "little" voice...and one of the most hurtful things for me is when people comment or make fun of it because I don't really have much control over it. My issue regarding Jojo is that it seems like she exaggerates it to sound young/cute. I completely believe that an impediment is there, I don't think she's faking it, but I don't think she does anything to help it either. If I were to guess I would put her at Mackenzies age, if not younger, not Maddie's.

And the whole issue with the girls competing with teens... I do think this was producer driven, but Abby did seem to have some real fear that Maddie may not win. Funny that she always says how Maddie specifically beats kids older than her all the time. How did Abby not know the age divisions, that's her responsibility when she signs them up. It also goes to show she doesn't enter Maddie if she's not positive she'll win, because why else would she have gotten so mad? Oh and Jill, if they were competing with girls twice their age they would have been competing with 24 year olds... Just think about that.

[Rhondinella]

Everyone is in total agreement that thank God Kellie and her button pushing buddy Christi are gone.

 

 

Well, the Christie of last season, yes, I'd probably agree.  But I've been rewatching earlier seasons (God help me) and remembering how much I used to like Christie.  Her comments in the TM are usually right on and often hilariously snarky.  She and I could be friends, is what I'm saying.  But that does not mean that I in any way condone her actions in allowing her daughter to be abused this way for so long.

 

Still, I'd have drinks with her.

[missbonnie]

Tessa, I totally agree with what you said. I was just finishing up a long post and my phone ate it and I don't have time to retype it now. Long story short, I was a cheer and dance team coach for a high school for 5 years and it was the cheer and dance mommy's behavior that caused me to quit. So I can totally see your points are very valid. And I do still follow Chloe via YouTube and she's at least much happier and she has the love of dancing back and I think that is the best thing of all.

Edited January 29, 2015 by missbonnie

[tessa]

I'd love to have drink with Kelly and Christie and here all the inside poop. We know that once Jill leaves she'll be talking up a storm - and what do you want to bet that the first people she calls is Kelly and Christie.

 

I don't condone how awful Abby was to JoJo especially sonce she knows exactly what JoJo is like from AUDC. They needed JoJo to bring some of the drama back as they lost that with Kelly and Christie leaving and the other scenerios - Sara's mom Christy and the the other ALDC group did not improve ratings. The big push for LA, in my opinion, is to catch what income she can from the LA moms wanting their daughters to be taught by Abby before her downward spiral hits rock bottom. And they'll be paying big money for those classes. If she thinks she has any chance of starting a management company - I think she'll soon realize - ot's a dog eat dog world out in LA and there's already too many managers for the amt of people who do make ot to the big time. 

 

We already see the writing on the wall with the downward trend in her weekly numbers, the failure of her Dance Schook Restoration, and the fact that AUDC is going to Australia. I would of rather Lifetime did another season of Kim of Queens than Abby's shows. I loved Kim's strict but downhome teaching. I loved that she would take an underdog and give them a chance. I loved that winning was not the main goal but teaching them to respect themselves and realize they can do anything was at the forefront onstead of the continual Maddie would have won. Abby could be nice to the other girls in the first season - now it feels that if she could get rid of everyone but Maddie, Mac and Kalani - she'd do it.

Tessa, I totally agree with what you said. I was just finishing up a long post and my phone ate it and I don't have time to retype it now. Long story short, I was a cheer and dance team coach for a high school for 5 years and it was the cheer and dance mommy's behavior that caused me to quit. So I can totally see your points are very valid. And I do still follow Chloe via YouTube and she's at least much happier and she has the love of dancing back and I think that is the best thing of all.

Don't you just hate when that happens. Spend 5 minutes on a post and then a glitch doesn't let you post and dang - it's gone!  I loved Chloe. She was the type of kid I'd want as a daughter - considerate, loving - say what you want about her Christie - but she and Chloe's dad did a heck of a good job raising her.

[missbonnie]

They did indeed, I think she has a huge heart and that's why I miss her so much. I also totally understand why she left, she hung in there as long as she could. From earlier interviews Abbey made it quite clear that she despised Christi which I could totally get, but she also disliked Chloe immensely and to this day I am mystified about that. There's just nothing I've ever read or seen to support her treatment towards Chloe. I don't get it.

[tessa]

They did indeed, I think she has a huge heart and that's why I miss her so much. I also totally understand why she left, she hung in there as long as she could. From earlier interviews Abbey made it quite clear that she despised Christi which I could totally get, but she also disliked Chloe immensely and to this day I am mystified about that. There's just nothing I've ever read or seen to support her treatment towards Chloe. I don't get it.

I was just on youtube and Chloe has a reg video program following her dance at Studio 19. I have to say - I'm quite impressed and their dances are dances you'd expect to see in competitions. Abby better step it up. Chloe seems very happy and the new dances show how much more versatile she is when it comes to dance. I'd love to see a compeition between Abby and Studio 19 - now I know Jill brought Kendall to Abby's just for the money.

[RedheadZombie]

Well to each their own - the friends I know that watch , or have stopped watching, actually miss all the original girls and Kelly and Christy. They feel the moms now don't take Abby to task for her actions. Yes Holly has spoken up a couple of times - but Kira and Jill - though they might make a comment - don't follow through as they think Abby indeed will make their kids the next great star.

 

This is how I feel.  All that are left are Abby's sycophants.  I don't enjoy Maddie, and the show has turned into The Maddie Show.  I certainly don't think JoJo's or Sarah's mom is any more palatable than Christy or Kelly.  And all of the girls combined aren't as likable as Chloe, in my opinion.

[goodbyeglittergirl]

Without rewatching it - does anyone remember what TV show Maddie was supposedly auditioning for? I think Abby said it was a new TV show.

 

I am not sure if this was the one she was referring to, but I know that Maddie is going to be on an upcoming episode of Austin and Ally (Disney Channel). Honestly, if Melissa's really wanting to milk this cash cow, she should be doing a full court press on Disney and/or Nickelodeon to develop a show featuring Maddie. The question, though, is if Maddie is any good as an actress in the "Disney" tradition. My kids like Austin and Ally so I will report back on how she fares on her guest appearance!

[crabbypants]

Kendall's dance looked a lot like a Mackenzie dance, right down to the hair style.

[Lukeysboat]

Is "Jojo" this kid's real name?

I think I read that her given name is Joelle.

[missbonnie]

I was just on youtube and Chloe has a reg video program following her dance at Studio 19. I have to say - I'm quite impressed and their dances are dances you'd expect to see in competitions. Abby better step it up. Chloe seems very happy and the new dances show how much more versatile she is when it comes to dance. I'd love to see a compeition between Abby and Studio 19 - now I know Jill brought Kendall to Abby's just for the money.

That's where I have been keeping up with her. She looks like she's having a blast. With regard to your last comment about money, isn't it always when it comes to big business? And reality TV is indeed big business. Also, I agree with you to a certain extent RedheadZombie . I know that I have commented that because of the way this show is all about Maddie it's made me have an irrational dislike for a young girl who has irl done nothing to me to deserve it. Gah, I really need to stop watching this dreck.

Edited January 30, 2015 by missbonnie

[truelovekiss]

I am not sure if this was the one she was referring to, but I know that Maddie is going to be on an upcoming episode of Austin and Ally (Disney Channel). Honestly, if Melissa's really wanting to milk this cash cow, she should be doing a full court press on Disney and/or Nickelodeon to develop a show featuring Maddie. The question, though, is if Maddie is any good as an actress in the "Disney" tradition. My kids like Austin and Ally so I will report back on how she fares on her guest appearance!

[truelovekiss]

I doubt Maddie would get her own Disney Channel/Nickelodeon show. Mackenzie seems more suited for acting to me, and less attached to dance. Also, Melissa talks a big game about how she's in charge of her children's careers, but I doubt she buys them shoes or makes them dinner without consulting Abby, whose first priority is always herself, her fame and ALDC.

[DoctorWhovian]

Kendall is the one with the Disney/Nick look that they're running right now. Kalani may too, she is reminiscent of Ariana Grande. Maybe even Nia or Mack (as a best friend character). Maddie just doesn't mesh with the other kids on those networks (which sounds so weird, but it's really true). But, nowadays all the kids on those shows can sing [somewhat decently without autotune].

[JM90Gurl]

Wasn't Mackenzie in the group dance? Wouldn't having her in it put the group in the lowering divsion because she isn't 12? Or do they need two or more kids under 12 in the group? Because otherwise I don't understand why they would have needed to swtich Nia out for JoJo because aren't they around the same age, in fact I think Mac might be younger 10? and JoJo is 11.

[leighroda]

It usually goes by an average, so on top of Makenzie being young they needed someone else younger. I'm not sure what that magic number in this case would have been, but that 1 yr younger Jojo was may have been able to bring it down enough... Again depending on what the number is.

[Darknight]

Wasn't Mackenzie in the group dance? Wouldn't having her in it put the group in the lowering divsion because she isn't 12? Or do they need two or more kids under 12 in the group? Because otherwise I don't understand why they would have needed to swtich Nia out for JoJo because aren't they around the same age, in fact I think Mac might be younger 10? and JoJo is 11.

Adding up all their ages 14,13,12,12,11,10 their average age is 12. Teen/junior at some competitions. Take out Nia The average age is 11 junior.