Pet Peeves: Aka Things That Make You Go "Gah!"

TattleTeeny · September 15, 2018

Hahhahahahaha, but they're "nice guys--girls are so stupid because they only want jerks!"

walnutqueen · September 15, 2018

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

On their way back past, one loudly and pointedly said, "We should adopt a cat and feed it to a snake, a-duh-huh-huh-I'm a dolt" (I added that last part). I didn't throw anything at them, but I did say "fuck you" (not professional, sorry; I don't think they heard anyway in the midst of their marveling at their "cleverness" that was probably NOT AT ALL rehearsed).

I would've replied, "I should cut off your tiny dicks and feed them to my cats". But that's just me.

Wiendish Fitch · September 15, 2018

Y'all have brought up another peeve of mine (apologies if I've stated in the past): dude bros who get butthurt if you don't laugh at their jokes. If you don't split your sides at their "brilliant" humor, then you're just a mean ol' politically correct thought snowflake (read: women/minorities/anybody who isn't them) who can't take a joke.

Let's clear a few things up, shall we?

1. If someone doesn't laugh at your joke, they just didn't think it was funny. It's not even a case of it being "offensive", they just didn't think it was a funny. Humor is subjective, not everyone laughs at the same thing. Some people think fart jokes are the height of comedy, others think it's mostly juvenile and lame. People who don't laugh at the jokes aren't the ones with a problem... YOU are for whining about it.

2. Stop saying "women aren't funny". Women are funny. Some are, some aren't, just like men. There are plenty of shitty male comedians. Dane Cook, Daniel Tosh, Jeff Dunham, Carlos Mencia, and Larry the Cable Guy ring any bells?

3. Here's a thought, dude bros... you're not funny. There. Ponder this, really mull it over, embrace it. You. Aren't. Funny. Your humor doesn't make people laugh, it makes them enjoy life a little bit less. It dulls the colors on the trees, makes the days seem longer than they are, and sucks the joy out of any situation. You are not funny. You never were, you never will be. Release that dream, and instead seek a career as miserable as you are.

HazelEyes4325 · September 15, 2018

My pet peeve of the day: Youth Sports Parents.

I just got back from my 9-year-old daughter's soccer game and her team played one that has 4 girls from her school on it and I ended up sitting next to one of her classmate's dads who I have known at about an acquaintance level for 6-7 years. I always thought he was a mild-mannered guy, but yeesh...not anymore! Not only was he heavily into the backseat coaching, but he kept urging the girls on his team to injure one of the girls on our team. Yes, one of the little 4th grade girls (well, the one who happened to be playing circles around all the other girls on both teams...)

After the game, he said to me, "I'm sorry but I get carried away and just can't help it. Don't worry, my wife will yell at me all the way home." Sorry, dude, that doesn't make your behavior even remotely okay....

peacheslatour · September 15, 2018

32 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I would've replied, "I should cut off your tiny dicks and feed them to my cats". But that's just me.

A boss I used to have would joke about running over cats intentionally when he was a teen. Hyuck har ha har. He also owned two Westies. I felt like saying "Yeah, we used to beat little white dogs with baseball bats." Hyuk har har har. But of course, I never did.

bilgistic · September 15, 2018

41 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Y'all have brought up another peeve of mine (apologies if I've stated in the past): dude bros who get butthurt if you don't laugh at their jokes. If you don't split your sides at their "brilliant" humor, then you're just a mean ol' politically correct thought snowflake (read: women/minorities/anybody who isn't them) who can't take a joke.

Let's clear a few things up, shall we?

1. If someone doesn't laugh at your joke, they just didn't think it was funny. It's not even a case of it being "offensive", they just didn't think it was a funny. Humor is subjective, not everyone laughs at the same thing. Some people think fart jokes are the height of comedy, others think it's mostly juvenile and lame. People who don't laugh at the jokes aren't the ones with a problem... YOU are for whining about it.

2. Stop saying "women aren't funny". Women are funny. Some are, some aren't, just like men. There are plenty of shitty male comedians. Dane Cook, Daniel Tosh, Jeff Dunham, Carlos Mencia, and Larry the Cable Guy ring any bells?

3. Here's a thought, dude bros... you're not funny. There. Ponder this, really mull it over, embrace it. You. Aren't. Funny. Your humor doesn't make people laugh, it makes them enjoy life a little bit less. It dulls the colors on the trees, makes the days seem longer than they are, and sucks the joy out of any situation. You are not funny. You never were, you never will be. Release that dream, and instead seek a career as miserable as you are.

This is perfect. I'm cracking up! Women, including you, are WAY funnier than men.

9 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

A boss I used to have would joke about running over cats intentionally when he was a teen. Hyuck har ha har. He also owned two Westies. I felt like saying "Yeah, we used to beat little white dogs with baseball bats." Hyuk har har har. But of course, I never did.

Have they found the bodies buried in his backyard yet, because he's a serial killer.

TattleTeeny · September 15, 2018

Quote

A boss I used to have would joke about running over cats intentionally when he was a teen. Hyuck har ha har. He also owned two Westies. I felt like saying "Yeah, we used to beat little white dogs with baseball bats." Hyuk har har har. But of course, I never did.

We actually have this going on here in North Jersey right now:

https://www.nj.com/sussex-county/index.ssf/2018/09/woman_arrested_charged_after_posting_on_facebook_a.html?utm_content=nj_facebook_njcom&utm_campaign=njcom_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

peacheslatour · September 15, 2018

Quote

Some people think fart jokes are the height of comedy,

I read a thing in MAD magazine once about the differences between men and women. It went something like; Farts: To women they are just the unfortunate by-products of the digestive system, to men they a source of unending hilarity. I have found this to be true.

Edited September 15, 2018 by peacheslatour

Brookside · September 15, 2018

6 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I read a thing in MAD magazine once about the differences between men and women. It went something like; Farts: To women they are just the unfortunate by-products of the digestive system, to men they a source of unending hilarity. I have found this to be true.

Wait, what? Don't you know that women don't fart?

DeLurker · September 15, 2018

10 minutes ago, Brookside said:

Wait, what? Don't you know that women don't fart?

That is not true. Our family dog used to sleep in my room. If I released the teensy tinest bit of air, she would immediately stand up, give me the dirtiest look ever, and evacuate the room at once because I had offended her delicate sensibilities. It does explain why she chose to sleep in my room as opposed to my brothers room.

TattleTeeny · September 15, 2018

UGH, auxiliary peeve: when my usually not-a-dumbass BF says "just let it go!" when I dare to still be bugged a couple hours later by what the snake doofuses said! I don't know why that's annoying but it is!

auntlada · September 15, 2018

45 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I read a thing in MAD magazine once about the differences between men and women. It went something like; Farts: To women they are just the unfortunate by-products of the digestive system, to men they a source of unending hilarity. I have found this to be true.

My son thinks farts (and other bodily functions and anything to do with butts or underwear) are the height of humor. He's 6.

JTMacc99 · September 15, 2018

Shakespeare wrote fart jokes. Big crowd pleasers, fart jokes.

DrSpaceman73 · September 16, 2018

3 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

My pet peeve of the day: Youth Sports Parents.

I just got back from my 9-year-old daughter's soccer game and her team played one that has 4 girls from her school on it and I ended up sitting next to one of her classmate's dads who I have known at about an acquaintance level for 6-7 years. I always thought he was a mild-mannered guy, but yeesh...not anymore! Not only was he heavily into the backseat coaching, but he kept urging the girls on his team to injure one of the girls on our team. Yes, one of the little 4th grade girls (well, the one who happened to be playing circles around all the other girls on both teams...)

After the game, he said to me, "I'm sorry but I get carried away and just can't help it. Don't worry, my wife will yell at me all the way home." Sorry, dude, that doesn't make your behavior even remotely okay....

Most leagues my kids have been in wouldn't allow that, they'd kick the parent out.

Brookside · September 16, 2018

2 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

UGH, auxiliary peeve: when my usually not-a-dumbass BF says "just let it go!" when I dare to still be bugged a couple hours later by what the snake doofuses said! I don't know why that's annoying but it is!

Yep, for me it's on the same level as "Calm down," and "Relax." Guaranteed to piss me off even more than I already was.

Bastet · September 16, 2018

1 minute ago, Brookside said:

Yep, for me it's on the same level as "Calm down," and "Relax." Guaranteed to piss me off even more than I already was.

Yes. Because it's dismissive, and a jerk move. When it's a man pulling that shit on me, I see a particularly vibrant shade of red.

TattleTeeny · September 16, 2018

I get that what they're likely going for is "I hope your night's not ruined by an asshole" but, come on, say it better, dudes!

AuntieL · September 16, 2018

3 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

We actually have this going on here in North Jersey right now:

https://www.nj.com/sussex-county/index.ssf/2018/09/woman_arrested_charged_after_posting_on_facebook_a.html?utm_content=nj_facebook_njcom&utm_campaign=njcom_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

I have no words.

HazelEyes4325 · September 16, 2018

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Most leagues my kids have been in wouldn't allow that, they'd kick the parent out.

This is the only team my daughter has played so far, so I'm not sure if this is a widespread thing or not I will say that the parents on her team are pretty chill, so maybe things will be better when she plays other teams.

theredhead77 · September 16, 2018

5 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

We actually have this going on here in North Jersey right now:

https://www.nj.com/sussex-county/index.ssf/2018/09/woman_arrested_charged_after_posting_on_facebook_a.html?utm_content=nj_facebook_njcom&utm_campaign=njcom_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

The link doesn't give it away but this is a horrific animal abuse story. I promptly closed the link after seeing the headline. Clicker be aware

TattleTeeny · September 16, 2018

Sorry! But it’s not graphic at all in terms of copy or photo, just sparse details on a sadistic asshole and her arrest (which is hopefully only the tip of the iceberg). People=horrific; article=blessedly not so much. Normally, I cry if I read articles about this kind of thing; this one was brief and nonspecific enough that I was left with just a wish for vengeance and swift justice.

Edited September 16, 2018 by TattleTeeny

bilgistic · September 16, 2018

4 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

UGH, auxiliary peeve: when my usually not-a-dumbass BF says "just let it go!" when I dare to still be bugged a couple hours later by what the snake doofuses said! I don't know why that's annoying but it is!

I'm annoyed on your behalf.

TattleTeeny · September 16, 2018

8 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

I'm annoyed on your behalf.

Thank you! But he did make a horrified face when I first told him and then said " I bought you some beer," so there's that.

bilgistic · September 16, 2018

2 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I get that what they're likely going for is "I hope your night's not ruined by an asshole" but, come on, say it better, dudes!

All due respect to your boyfriend, but, "Just let it go!" isn't concern for your mental comfort because really, who can flip a switch when someone tells them to stop thinking about a bothersome issue?

"Just let it go!" is him (or anyone who uses the phrase) being tired of hearing you (and the royal "you") talk about the/an issue. I get that he's not necessarily normally a jackass, but he is in this case. Good people are occasionally shitty.

There are several layers of wrong here--what the guys said about getting a cat/snake, that they think it's funny, that they said it specifically where you could hear it, that your boyfriend isn't compassionate to what was an upsetting situation that has clearly stuck with you. It upsets me, and I only read about it. I want some Minority Report-style pre-crime justice for the pet shop boys.

I care, and I'm sorry.

Edited September 16, 2018 by bilgistic

Bastet · September 16, 2018

2 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I get that what they're likely going for is "I hope your night's not ruined by an asshole" but, come on, say it better, dudes!

Nope, like @bilgistic said, what they're saying is, "I don't care/don't care the same way you do, so I don't want to hear about it anymore. Your being upset is harshing my mellow, and that's what I do care about, so please stifle the expression of your feelings."

Edited September 16, 2018 by Bastet

TattleTeeny · September 16, 2018

Eh, yeah, maybe. He hovers somewhere in the middle of those two things (and definitely has a streak of self-involvement). I'll bring it up later and tell him exactly why his word choice is that of a douche. He's pretty good about saying "you have a point." But, ugh, will the day come when one doesn't have to make a damn point?

ETA: Now that I think about it, I do not think I have ever said "get over it" or whatever to him about anything, so yes--I will tell him later or tomorrow that it was a crappy reply.

Edited September 16, 2018 by TattleTeeny

bilgistic · September 16, 2018

My usually wonderful, very quiet neighbor upstairs seems to have a new man. I saw her leave with him and who I assume is his son on Thursday when I was coming in. The night before, I know he was here in the evening because they had THE LOUDEST SEX EVER. It wasn't so much the theatrics, though there were plenty; it was her squeaky-squealy-springy-sproingy bed, which is one floor directly over mine. I should perhaps gift her a bottle of WD-40.

I hate hearing people have sex. It's so, so gross. I have never understood people who don't temper their sex noises when they live in an apartment. No one cares and no one wants to hear it. Loud sex is just as rude as loud music.

Signed,

Crabby Old Lady

Edited September 16, 2018 by bilgistic

TattleTeeny · September 16, 2018

Oy, I remember those days! I always thought it was crazy that buildings built for the express purpose of being apartments (like garden apartment complexes as opposed to houses that were later converted) have this issue--you's think soundproofing between units would be a top priority, for the sake of tenants and management. And some of us are just not equipped to stop noticing something once we start noticing it! I'm in a condo now and while I can hear the neighbors, it's much more muffled than my last place (a garden apartment).

Edited September 16, 2018 by TattleTeeny

Bastet · September 16, 2018

58 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

I hate hearing people have sex. It's so, so gross. I have never understood people who don't temper their sex noises when they live in an apartment.

I have to consider that even in my house; it's an old neighborhood, and our lots are nice and long, but narrow (I swear, this is not a penis joke), so we're all pretty close together despite not sharing walls. Windows closed, we can have at it. But windows open, it's not pillow over your face territory or anything, but we do have to think about the fact if the neighbor's window is also open, or they're outside, shit will be heard and that's maybe a bit awkward so try to avoid full volume. And who wants to think while having sex, so windows closed during the deed it is.

In my condo, I never heard either neighbor through the walls as anything more than a vague muffled noise that's no big deal (they apparently having received the common decency memo), but for a while a young couple lived two doors down and summer - with everyone's windows open - was awful for how loud they got sometimes. That's just obnoxious.

backformore · September 16, 2018

On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, TattleTeeny said:

I feel like that about "phenomenal."

My friend, who also sells Avon drives me crazy because she pronounces "phenomenal" "FUH. (pause) NOM. enal " And she uses it for everything. "This new eyeliner is FUH - NOM enal" No, it's pretty basic.

theredhead77 · September 16, 2018

9 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I should perhaps gift her a bottle of WD-40.

I once left my existing can of WD-40 outside my neighbors door, that night (so they saw it in the AM) with a note signed "the neighborhood". I already had a contentious relationship with my upstairs neighbors and their overall noise level but this got the point across.

I'm currently peeved at myself for not reading the grocery ads close enough and impulsively bought strawberries at Publix Friday night (2/$6) instead of waiting until I went to Sprouts on Saturday where they were 3/$5 and the ones at Sprouts looked much nicer than the ones at Publix. I really, really miss strawberry farm strawberries where I could get a half-flat for $7 straight off the fields.

Katy M · September 16, 2018

11 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I hate hearing people have sex. It's so, so gross. I have never understood people who don't temper their sex noises when they live in an apartment. No one cares and no one wants to hear it. Loud sex is just as rude as loud music.

I had an upstairs neighbor and they were like bunnies. 7-7:30 p.m. was their favorite time. I know because I'd hear them going at it while I was watching Jeopardy. The first time I briefly wondered if maybe he was killing her. My biggest fear is a serial killing neighbor. OK, that's not actually my biggest fear. But, my goodness did that girl love to scream.

September 16, 2018

I'll put this out there to spoil everyone's Sunday: growing up with a noisy sex mother in the next room.

walnutqueen · September 16, 2018

35 minutes ago, 2727 said:

I'll put this out there to spoil everyone's Sunday: growing up with a noisy sex mother in the next room.

Shared a bedroom with a fairly quiet sex mother when I was little (maybe even a bed at one point - I may have blocked that out).

NutMeg · September 16, 2018

this tread has made me control myself. On another board, I wrote something and was about to end "indeed" at the end, because I really felt about it and wanted to add the word equivalent to an exclamation mark or a square - yes, I did have British teachers, indeed - and then I chickened out, because I was afraid of how a US reader would interpret it.

walnutqueen · September 16, 2018

30 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

this tread has made me control myself. On another board, I wrote something and was about to end "indeed" at the end, because I really felt about it and wanted to add the word equivalent to an exclamation mark or a square - yes, I did have British teachers, indeed - and then I chickened out, because I was afraid of how a US reader would interpret it.

I like the word "indeed", if it is used properly. I use it, and am not ashamed to admit so. :-)

NutMeg · September 16, 2018

20 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I like the word "indeed", if it is used properly. I use it, and am not ashamed to admit so. :-)

Thank you very much indeed. (will this do? What I mean here is thank you, thank you, thank you)

ratgirlagogo · September 16, 2018

18 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I hate hearing people have sex. It's so, so gross.

I'd MUCH MUCH MUCH rather hear fucking than fighting.

NutMeg · September 16, 2018

7 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

I'd MUCH MUCH MUCH rather hear fucking than fighting.

Hahaha, yes, indeed!

bilgistic · September 16, 2018

22 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

I'd MUCH MUCH MUCH rather hear fucking than fighting.

OK, I concede to your logic.

BookWoman56 · September 17, 2018

I'm starting to get seriously annoyed at UPS's habit of sending me an email that a package is due for delivery on the following day, and stating that a signature is required, but then when the package is actually delivered, it's just dumped on the front porch and the driver rings my doorbell just before leaping back into the delivery truck. If you need my signature, then ring the doorbell and allow me the few seconds it takes to walk maybe 15 feet from my office to the front door, before you assume that nobody is home. If you don't in fact need my signature, then quit saying in the email that you do. I work from home, so it doesn't alter my schedule in any way to be here to sign for a package, but it would be extremely annoying if I made special arrangements to be at home to receive and sign for a package, only for there to be no real need to sign for it.

Bastet · September 17, 2018

The closest place to me that sells the Bloody Mary mix I like (Red Eye) is a liquor store a couple of hours away, so I buy a case from them, which is shipped by a local company. Alcohol delivery obviously requires an adult's signature, but since this is just a mixer, it does not. Usually it's fine, but one year I came home to find the "sorry we missed you" notice, saying they couldn't leave it because a signature was required. I called the liquor store to have them deal with the shipping vendor, since I wasn't going to be home the next day, either. They apologized, said they'd take care of it, but the next day the same thing happened. I talked with the same person at the liquor store, and she was fit to be tied, because she was looking right at the screen where she'd not only checked the no signature required box but added a note after my call. The next day it was delivered, and I've never had an issue before or since, but that was annoying.

In other delivery peeves, recently FedEx knocked on my door with a huge package. It was for my next-door neighbor, who wasn't home, and the driver wanted to know if I'd take it for him, since it couldn't just be left at the door. Of course, although I wished it was a smaller package. When I heard my neighbor come home, I lugged it over to him (it wasn't heavy, just awkward), and he said, "Oh, for Pete's sake; I specifically selected something about it being okay to leave, since I knew I wouldn't be home." Plus, the driver hadn't left a notice on his door telling him where the package was. If I hadn't heard his car, and been eager to get this thing out of my foyer, he wouldn't have even known it had come.

When USPS delivers a package (which is separate from our daily mail delivery, since those letter carriers are on foot and the packages are delivered via truck), they just ring the bell and immediately leave it on the porch. Which is fine with me, but I do appreciate that when it's UPS doing the delivering, the driver takes the extra step of seeing if someone is home and, if not, leaves the package on my back porch instead.

BookWoman56 · September 17, 2018

50 minutes ago, forumfish said:

At least they ring the doorbell, alerting you to the delivery. I have started requiring a signature on all orders because of the increasing number of package thefts in my neighborhood. Sometimes, I only hear a thump on the porch, followed by a truck speeding off.

My home office has two large windows that face directly onto my sidewalk that comes to my front porch, so I normally will see movement through the window blinds or hear them as they deliver something. But there's also the occasional delivery where they seem to be in stealth mode, without ringing the doorbell or knocking on the door.

walnutqueen · September 17, 2018

My UPS delivery person is stealth personified. Big heavy packages (cat food & litter) are silently dumped in front of my open door (the screen door is locked, of course), with nary a knock or an attempted ring of the broken doorbell. Not even my postman bothers to brush my windchimes or knock when delivering USPS packages. The other day, neighbors from several blocks away brought me a package of medications that had been delivered to them in error. Lucky they were honest non-drug seekers.

TattleTeeny · September 17, 2018

Sometimes Amazon has drivers take a picture of where they leave the package, and it comes in a "package has been delivered" e-mail. Once I got one where the large envelope (containing two packages of bass strings) was left right in the path of the front door, where someone exiting would step right on it through no fault of their own, even though there is room to stand it up on either side of the door.

Speaking of bass strings, the BF apologized unprompted for "let it go." Go figure. Haha, I picture him at his gig that night, maybe being told to "let it go and get over it" about not wanting to play a certain song, and a light bulb popping up over his head!

Edited September 17, 2018 by TattleTeeny

theredhead77 · September 17, 2018

Shortly after I moved in my complex set up a package room, with lockers and it requires a FOB to enter (which I usually leave upstairs on my going out keys since I use a gate clicker on my regular keys). So what does this mean for packages?

First, UPS, FedEx and AZL drivers are supposed to attempt door delivery, but they rarely do. Instead they leave boxes in the package room, or in the leasing office (????). I quit ordering cat food and litter online since it was more of a hassle to get the box from the (usually shared locker???), lug it to my car and up the stairs. AZL is the best about bringing stuff up, UPS is the worst.

Our mailbox area has box lockers attached to it but what does the postal person do? Usually leaves stuff in the package room instead of the locker.

TattleTeeny · September 17, 2018

57 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Shortly after I moved in my complex set up a package room, with lockers and it requires a FOB to enter (which I usually leave upstairs on my going out keys since I use a gate clicker on my regular keys). So what does this mean for packages?

First, UPS, FedEx and AZL drivers are supposed to attempt door delivery, but they rarely do. Instead they leave boxes in the package room, or in the leasing office (????). I quit ordering cat food and litter online since it was more of a hassle to get the box from the (usually shared locker???), lug it to my car and up the stairs. AZL is the best about bringing stuff up, UPS is the worst.

Our mailbox area has box lockers attached to it but what does the postal person do? Usually leaves stuff in the package room instead of the locker.

That stinks! In theory, it sounds great though--which makes the stink part even worse!

theredhead77 · September 17, 2018

5 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

That stinks! In theory, it sounds great though--which makes the stink part even worse!

Right? I'm certainly not complaining about a secure package room, it's the inconsistency of it all. Packages from Target "require a signature" so they are left in the package room (where I guess our acknowledgement signature when we open the locker is good enough) but most of the time my packages are in a shared locker - not because the other lockers are full but because the delivery person is too rushed (I hesitate to say lazy) to use individual lockers. I had a bag from eBags delivered via UPS, it said it was in the package room, gave me a locker number and nope, no package. I go inside to the leasing office and it's there, in a stack of boxes on their floor. Da fuq?

TattleTeeny · September 17, 2018

Here, we have the mailbox bays and each has a big outgoing section. Or the compartment itself is big--the slot into which one is supposed to put anything is letter-sized. So no return packages can even get in there!

NutMeg · September 17, 2018

2 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

My home office has two large windows that face directly onto my sidewalk that comes to my front porch, so I normally will see movement through the window blinds or hear them as they deliver something. But there's also the occasional delivery where they seem to be in stealth mode, without ringing the doorbell or knocking on the door.

They camouflage and hide in the bushes until you take a toilet break :)

That seems to be what my mailman does when I'm sent a registered letter or package.

Whereas any time I am in a bubble bath, my phone rings.

Also, no one comes and visit when my apartment is freshly cleaned.

The laws of my universe are very strange indeed.

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