Pet Peeves: Aka Things That Make You Go "Gah!"

[Bastet]

Ha!  I don't like hugging people I've just met, either, so my response to the "I'm a hugger" greeting you describe is just to say "I'm not" and shake their hand.  But now I may have to switch to "I'm a farter" or "I'm a boob squeezer" instead.

[zxy556575]

Now "hipster" on the other hand is IMO one of those words like "yuppie"  that only exists as a term of abuse. Someone might call themselves a "foodie" or a "hippie" and for some others the whole idea of whatever that is  is so loathsome that for them, it's an insult - "what is all this hippie shit?", etc. But nobody actually calls THEMSELVES a "hipster" or a "yuppie."  That's always something those OTHER, AWFUL people are.

 

I agree that both hipster and yuppie have taken on pejorative connotations but I wish they hadn't. They were fine shorthand ways to describe people who generally conform to a certain lifestyle -- clothing, food choices, interior decor, politics, etc. Can we still use DINK? That mostly describes socioeconomic levels, though. What about preppy?

 

Even something seemingly as innocuously descriptive as SAHM has become insulting in some circles. But then, I'm still a proponent of the word "fat" to describe people who are, including me. Probably stems from working at a police station for five years where the need to specify and catalog someone's physical appearance was an everyday occurrence. No judgments; just descriptors.

Edited March 6, 2016 by lordonia

[ratgirlagogo]

 

I agree that both hipster and yuppie have taken on pejorative connotations

But when did they ever have positive connotations?  Or even neutral ones?  I seriously don't remember either term ever being used in a positive or neutral way.  Yuppies in the 80's and hipsters today are always the gentrifiers who are fucking up the neighborhood.  DINK is more neutral (although it often has the implication that childless couples are rich and selfish) and preppie is a class thing.  

Edited March 6, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[FormerMod-a1]

Yuppy used to just mean Young Urban Professional, right?  So again more descriptive than pejorative.

[Bastet]

I've heard DINK, hippie, foodie, fat, and preppy used as neutral descriptions, but yuppie I have only ever heard with disdain, from the '80s through today.  I've never heard hipster said without a sneer, either.

[zxy556575]

It's high school cliques all over again: "Oh he's very popular, Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, dickheads--they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude."

 

It's interesting that the only people to have fully embraced their label are the hippies. Peace and freedom, man!

 

Hipsters, foodies, and yuppies should similarly take ownership, if you ask me. And there is quite a bit of overlap among them. ;)

[krimimimi]

Thanks, everybody, for taking me seriously enough to answer that. That's been very helpful. (I'm still looking for the basketball fan terminology, because "you, Lakers fan, you" lacks a certain pithiness. Preferably non-pejorative.)

I've decided to avoid "foodie" (and also deleted "yuppie," yikes!), and people will just have to figure out my particular flavor of nuttiness for themselves, which they should do quickly enough. It's not exactly well hidden. (Oooh! Frying pans! Boxwood! Blackbirds! Wildlife! Dogs! And that's pretty much me in a nutshell.)

krimimimi, do you have a blog I could read? :)

That's incredibly kind, thanks. *beam* :D No blog, because the laws here governing them are loathsome. (I mean, would you be willing to post your full name, home address and telephone number on your posts? Gah! I find it absurd.)*

Unsurprisingly, I also am completely unsuited for twitter. ;-)

"Artful hobbyists" is a beautiful term. (I've already noted it for future use.) It's *so* much better (and more charitable) than "socially awkward geek." Which is probably where I wave "hello" to folks like the trainspotters and twitchers and give them the secret members only thumbs up...

Ubiquity is very difficult to determine at a distance. The same is true for connotations. You can look up a word to get its bare-bones meaning, but that won't do much to reveal its flavor. Slang will end up being like subway tiles and chevrons, by the time you notice it, you're probably better off letting the trend continue on its way out without you. Just keep calm, and... oh, no, wait.

* And yet another serious peeve of mine: it really grates when governments lose the plot and over-regulate, and I feel like I have to (grudgingly) agree with that annoying super-libertarian relative of mine... I swear he has an Ayn Rand shrine somewhere, I just know it. We agree virtually never, so when we do, something has generally gone very wrong.

Now "hipster" on the other hand is IMO one of those words like "yuppie"  that only exists as a term of abuse.  Someone might call themselves a "foodie" or a "hippie" and for some others the whole idea of whatever that is  is so loathsome that for them, it's an insult - "what is all this hippie shit?", etc.  But nobody actually calls THEMSELVES a "hipster" or a "yuppie."  That's always something those OTHER, AWFUL people are.

First, thanks for linking to chowhound; I'd forgotten about it. I have already found discussions about the no-knead breads there, so maybe that will solve my other problem. Color me chipper. Next, if you weren't referring to users of that site, and you called somebody a "chowhound," wouldn't that be rude? Doesn't that still mean somebody who eats a lot? Or has that gained widespread positive use? (I can just see the next pitfall looming... Now I'm getting paranoid.)

I hadn't realized the term "foodie" was so old.

I think breaking it down to pejoratives vs. self identifiers helps me a lot.

It's a pity that you can't look these things up reliably. Dictionaries lag behind the common language, and the urban dictionary... has really gotten worse. I had to look up "SAHM," and they give you "Depending on the context, an acronym for either 'Stay-At-Home-Mom' or 'Shit-Ass-Ho-Motherf*cker'" and I can't believe that second one is a thing. Anywhere. They need to have something like that, but where no one under 18 can upvote definitions. On the other hand, "for f*ck's sake" is very definitely (at least) an English thing, and doesn't make huge amounts of sense either. Logic only gets you so far...

[DeLurker]

What if I were to say, "I'm a farter." or "I'm a boob squeezer."? Would that make it okay to fart around you or squeeze your boobs? No, it wouldn't. So I don't care if you're a hugger. I don't want to hug your ass. 

 

But to answer the question, yes I still hug the person. *sigh*  Because I'm an introverted wimp who goes out of my way to avoid confrontation. Some days I wish I could speak without a filter, if only for a few minutes. 

Know that your fellow posters here are spiritually willing for you to use "I'm a farter/boob squeezer" each time you are subject to an unwanted hug.  Especially in church.

 

I'd probably opt for saying "I'm getting over a nasty flu" in an effort to graciously not he hugged.  Or start wearing a surgical mask.

[Quof]

My high school principal was a hugger (or a perv, take your pick).  This was long enough ago that no one thought it inappropriate.  But not so long ago that there isn't a video of my graduation, when I forcefully straight-armed him as he handed me my diploma and drew a huge chuckle from the crowd.

[zxy556575]

For the non-huggers -- is it upbringing, germs, personal space, strangers, shyness, or a combination? The comic Kathleen Madigan was on an episode of Comedians in Cars and waved Jerry off when he started to go in for a hug. She said nobody in her family hugged, ever, and basically it made her uncomfortable. I prefer to shake hands with strangers but wouldn't refuse if a woman I'd just met came in for a hug. I'd look a little askance at a man doing it, however.

 

I will say that when I hug people I know, it's a genuine full body squeeze. My peeve, then, would be tepid hugs. Either commit or don't bother.

 

Here's a scene from Will and Grace where Jack is trying to find out if guest star Matt Damon is gay or just pretending to be. Jacks asks for a hug:

 

Jack: "Interesting. You gave me the straight guy, double pat on the back, no hip contact hug."

Damon: "Actually, it was more the gay guy, bend at the waist, feel your delts, check out your shoes hug."

Edited March 6, 2016 by lordonia

[Quof]

The straight man hug always involves a pat or two on the back; wouldn't want touching another man to feel good, so you throw in a little aversion therapy. 

 

I'm not a hugger.  I am very select about who gets to hug me, and the list is very short. 

[Blergh]

While 'veggies' isn't my favorite slang term, IMO, it sounds better than 'Kyook' for cucumber and 'Nannies' for bananas. The first term makes me wanna do something that rhymes with it while the latter seems better fitted for 'Romper Room'. Yes, I heard all the above when I worked in produce long ago.

[Sandman87]

While 'veggies' isn't my favorite slang term, IMO, it sounds better than 'Kyook' for cucumber and 'Nannies' for bananas. The first term makes me wanna do something that rhymes with it while the latter seems better fitted for 'Romper Room'. Yes, I heard all the above when I worked in produce long ago.

 

I've heard "nanners", but not "nannies."

[krimimimi]

hugging... Well as a dog owner, I think I'm pretty relaxed about germs by necessity.

 

Some of the parents involved in raising me ("modern" family structures are fun) were huggers. I guess I used to be, until I spent too much time in countries where that really weirded people out. (Y'know, when they stiffen when you go in for the hug. Still, better than a straight arm. ;-)) So I adapted, and over time got used to not hugging, and now tend to feel awkward if people do. Funny how that works.

 

Once a year for my birthday, guests hug me. (That might sound sad, but it's not.) Once in a while when I invite people over for dinner I get some hugs, but not always. (And I still haven't figured out the rules for when they do or don't. Usually I hide in the kitchen and just let my husband get the door, so that I can avoid the issue. If they still come in for a hug then, at least I know what to do. Boy, is that complicated.) If my better half has his friends over to scream at the television (I believe they call it "watching sports" and apparently consider it "recreational"), I generally don't get hugged even if I feed them, although I think if viewed in terms of compensation (which we don't), I probably deserve it more there.

 

 

We used to call bananas "bans," but I'm not sure how widespread that was. And of course it was fruit and "vedge."

Edited March 6, 2016 by krimimimi

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Next, if you weren't referring to users of that site, and you called somebody a "chowhound," wouldn't that be rude? Doesn't that still mean somebody who eats a lot? Or has that gained widespread positive use? (I can just see the next pitfall looming... Now I'm getting paranoid.)

I think the site itself has made the word and the concept extremely well known among food writers.  It's gone through a lot of unfortunate changes but when it started it was the only thing of its kind and all of the other big ones (Serious Eats, Grub Street, Eater, Egullet, etc)  were formed kind of in its wake.  For people who aren't obsessed with food it might well seem more insulting, I guess - although I'd still think of a chowhound as more of an enthusiastic, clean your plate kind of eater - as opposed to a hog or a glutton who always overeats.

 

 

It's interesting that the only people to have fully embraced their label are the hippies.

That's because it was the word these people used to call themselves first - then everyone else figured out what they meant by it.  The hippies weren't embracing some outsiders term for their cultural movement, it was their own term.

 

 

I think breaking it down to pejoratives vs. self identifiers helps me a lot.

Yes, in order for a group to embrace an insult and turn it into a term of pride, they have to self-identify as a group.  For example gay men taking back the term "fag".  While young urban professionals are a social/economic group, they don't self identify as a cultural group, at least not that I have ever seen.

Edited March 6, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[krimimimi]

[Chowhound has] gone through a lot of unfortunate changes but when it started it was the only thing of it's kind and all of the other big ones (Serious Eats, Grub Street, Eater, Egullet, etc)  were formed kind of in its wake.

I'll be checking those out in my tireless pursuit of the crusty bread solution. Thank you!

 

I sort of miss the very old days when the internet was less densely populated, and Yahoo kept something like a telephone book of websites with critiques of their content. If you wanted to find a new site, you had somewhere trustworthy to find recommendations. Now if you don't have friends with similar interests, you google it, and all kinds of stuff pops up, but it takes a long time to sift through the results to determine quality. (I feel like I'm turning into my grandparents...)

 

Do any of you have a smarter approach? (Besides asking here... lol)

[ratgirlagogo]

For the bread question (and many other food questions) I'd recommend J Kenji Alt-Lopez's cooking columns on Serious Eats.  

 

http://www.seriouseats.com/2011/06/the-food-lab-the-science-of-no-knead-dough.html

Edited March 6, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[auntlada]

I am not a hugger. I hug my husband and my son, and I hug my mom now. We were not a family of huggers except for my mom, who would sometimes intentionally hug us (her kids) in public because she knew it embarrassed us and what's life if you can't embarrass your kids?

It's more personal space to me. I am not worried about germs because germs are everywhere. I just don't like to be touched very much. I am sometimes shy, but I am also an introvert, and I think it is the introvertness rather than the shyness because Imalso don't like hugging even people I know quite well.

What I hate most are the people who say, "I know you're not a hugger but I'm going to hug you anyway."

[BookWoman56]

It's more personal space to me. I am not worried about germs because germs are everywhere. I just don't like to be touched very much. I am sometimes shy, but I am also an introvert, and I think it is the introvertness rather than the shyness because Imalso don't like hugging even people I know quite well.

What I hate most are the people who say, "I know you're not a hugger but I'm going to hug you anyway."

I will generally tolerate hugs only in very specific situations: it is at work, the potential hugger is a client, and it's important to keep the client happy. Yet another reason I'm glad I telecommute 100% now; no need to endure the random hug.

 

The people who can figure out you don't want to be hugged but do it anyway need to FOAD. They're just enjoying making you uncomfortable. I don't encounter that much anymore because I send out a certain "Do not fuck with me" vibe and use the "Touch me and you will regret it" glare. My former boss once asked me if he could hug me, fully expecting me to feel intimidated enough by his position to agree to it, and he was a bit taken aback when I politely but firmly said, "No, I really dislike being touched." Most of my colleagues, though, are fine with my lack of hugging and will joke about it with me.

[Quof]

 

My former boss once asked me if he could hug me

 

Most of my colleagues, though, are fine with my lack of hugging and will joke about it with me.

 

What the Hell????

 

Unless you are in the porn industry, you don't touch your co-workers. 

[auntlada]

That's when you yell, "Bad touch! Bad touch!"

[BookWoman56]

It's not that the hugging was an everyday type of thing. My former manager lived on the other side of the country and would visit here maybe twice a year, so at the end of his visit, he wanted to hug everyone. With other colleagues, it's usually been in the context of going-away lunches, or that sort of thing. Still, though, I dislike it and almost everybody was fine with that.

[Sara2009]

What the Hell????

Unless you are in the porn industry, you don't touch your co-workers.

Or in theatre.

[backformore]

I am not a hugger. I hug my husband and my son, and I hug my mom now. We were not a family of huggers except for my mom, who would sometimes intentionally hug us (her kids) in public because she knew it embarrassed us and what's life if you can't embarrass your kids?

It's more personal space to me. I am not worried about germs because germs are everywhere. I just don't like to be touched very much. I am sometimes shy, but I am also an introvert, and I think it is the introvertness rather than the shyness because Imalso don't like hugging even people I know quite well.

What I hate most are the people who say, "I know you're not a hugger but I'm going to hug you anyway."

Some of the hugging thing is cultural.  Some nationalities hug more than others. 

 

My family does not hug very often.   Once, my mom noticed that another branch of the family hugged ALL the time. she decided we should be like that.   She started hugging us, all of us, whenever she saw us.  (we were all adults).   She got upset that my sisters and I responded strangely.  Yeah, when you grow up with a mom who hugged you probably 10 times in your LIFE,  the all the time hugs were met with stiff arms and confusion.   I said - you can't expect us to turn into a family of huggers, when you didn't hug us when we were kids.   My mom was upset, said "there was always a hug .......................for anyone who really needed one."   and we all cracked up.   Because "anyone who needed one"  kind of translated to rare hugs when she decided to dole one out.   Growing up without being hugged, I think, is part of the reason I'm not a hugger.

 

As an adult, when people want to hug me, I am confused.  Whose arms go on top?  how do I refuse without hurting someone's feelings?  What if I accept a hug, but the other person doesn't break away at the time I Want it over?  I'm just not comfortable with people I don't know well having physical contact with me. 

[auntlada]

I never had a problem hugging grandparents, although I don't remember hugging my paternal grandparents. Possibly we didn't hug much. I hig Mom more since my dad died. I don't know why. Perhaps I think she needs it more now, or maybe I know now in a way I didn't before that she won't always be here.

My husband says my family is emotionally stunted. Maybe. When my brothers and I see each other, we tend to grunt, "Hey," and punch each other in the arm. My family is from the South, forumfish, and we all attend evangelical churches. But we have always been stiff upper lip people. You just get on with the job and do what you need to regardless of your feelings. I am probably the most emotional, but really dislike letting anyone else see what I am feeling unless it is anger. But even then I rarely really let loose unless I am alone.

[NutMeg]

I grew up in a family where hugs were not the norm (we were  a peck on the cheek family, I guess). Then I grew up some more, and found out I really loved hugs - first from the man in my life, and then and mostly (because men unfortunately are often not forever) from my child, from the time he was teddy bear size to now that he's towering above me, he's been the most huggable being that I've ever met. 

 

Weirdly enough, my mom got kind of jealous of that connection. She'll never admit she's jealous because she's been brought up thinking that jealousy, among other sins, is truly evil (Catholic edudation...) - she's not the most self-aware person, but she's still a very warm hearted and generous woman, mostly to strangesrs - she didn't want me to become conceited if she praised me too much, so she only praised my academic achievements while I was growing up, while praising every other girl around for their look and sense of style. So brain I was, oh how much I was a brain. Blew all records of grades in my state. Didn't seem much to me, but boy was she impressed. More important to me back then were the boys, but still even when they were interested I always thought they were kidding, or trying to make fun of me (and now I could kick myself - why didI never realize that that guy that I thought could never in a million years be into me was actually into me !?).

 

I only understood my mum's mindframe when she visited, when my son was not even 2. I kept telling him how lovely he was, and she was all Yes, he is very handsome, but you don't want to tell him that too much, it might get onto his head" - I guess that's when I realized that despite people telling me otherwise, I always saw myself as borderline ugly because I hadn't heard otherwise from the people that mattered the most to me when I was growing up :( People, please keep praising your kids for their awesomeness, cleverness, resourcefulness, but don't forget to tell them they look really good too, because otherwise, they'll never completely believe it - and mght even fall for the first jaxkass who finds them the best looking thing ever).

 

But back to the hug topic. I'm convinced that my mum sorta wants to be part of it, but she just doesn't know how. I've become a huge fan of hugs with people I love since leaving home, but even when she goes for a hug, it feels extremely awkward, because we have no hug history. I'm starting to fell that it's like kittens and purring, either you knew it when very young, or the odds later on are slim.

 

[sorry for the long personal info here, that just came while I was writing, I'm happy to delete it]. 

 

Edited for typos but I may have left lots :(

Edited March 7, 2016 by NutMeg

[DeLurker]

Reading the Hug Digest is really interesting!

 

Did not grow up in a family of huggers since we had so many boys.  To this day, my brothers and Dad will say a big goodbye (like moving overseas or at the end of vacation and going several states away) with a handshake that turns into a manly hug.  They hug my Mom though.

 

Not a big hugger with most people, but I do with family and a few close friends.  I think it is a matter of maintaining my personal space.

[topanga]

For the non-huggers -- is it upbringing, germs, personal space, strangers, shyness, or a combination? The comic Kathleen Madigan was on an episode of Comedians in Cars and waved Jerry off when he started to go in for a hug. She said nobody in her family hugged, ever, and basically it made her uncomfortable. I prefer to shake hands with strangers but wouldn't refuse if a woman I'd just met came in for a hug. I'd look a little askance at a man doing it, however.

 

I will say that when I hug people I know, it's a genuine full body squeeze. My peeve, then, would be tepid hugs. Either commit or don't bother.

Kathleen Madigan! I love her. 

 

Anyway, regarding hugging, to me a hug is an intimate act of touch, not the casual handshake that huggers make it out to be. First of all, I don't want to press my body against someone I don't know--or barely know. Hugging a stranger makes me feel like I'm simultaneously being molested and molesting someone else. 

 

And what am I supposed to get out of a hug with a stranger or casual acquaintance? Are we supposed to be besties all of a sudden? Not in my case. I feel nothing except violated. 

[zxy556575]

And what am I supposed to get out of a hug with a stranger or casual acquaintance? Are we supposed to be besties all of a sudden? Not in my case. I feel nothing except violated.

 

I honestly never realized it could feel so invasive to others.

 

Does the resistance extend to people who are touchy-feely in other ways? For example, my realtor, who is basically a business acquaintance, had a sad personal moment once when the subject of her dead son came up. She and I were sitting next to each other at a table, and I first clasped my hand over hers and then rubbed her back and gave her shoulder a squeeze. "There, there. I'm here, I feel sorry for your loss."

 

I've often said I could never date a guy who wasn't physically affectionate. If he claims to love me, he'd damned well better show it by holding my hand, walking with an arm around me, giving me a kiss hello and goodbye, sitting cuddled on the couch, etc. The Italian half of my family is big on hugs and kisses -- my grandmother and mother always gave a peck on the lips even as adults. The Finnish side weren't kissers but they all hugged.

 

My actual peeve/complaint for the day is that the bursitis in my hip has flared up and the elastic wraps that hold an ice or heat pack on your hip cost $50-75! Jeezalou.

[DeLurker]

Can you buy an appropriate sized ice/heat pack and keep it in place with a pair of spanx?

 

Cause that is pretty pricey!

[topanga]

Does the resistance extend to people who are touchy-feely in other ways? For example, my realtor, who is basically a business acquaintance, had a sad personal moment once when the subject of her dead son came up. She and I were sitting next to each other at a table, and I first clasped my hand over hers and then rubbed her back and gave her shoulder a squeeze. "There, there. I'm here, I feel sorry for your loss."

 

I've often said I could never date a guy who wasn't physically affectionate. If he claims to love me, he'd damned well better show it by holding my hand, walking with an arm around me, giving me a kiss hello and goodbye, sitting cuddled on the couch, etc.

 

My actual peeve/complaint for the day is that the bursitis in my hip has flared up and the elastic wraps that hold an ice or heat pack on your hip cost $50-75! Jeezalou.

But see, you had somewhat of a personal relationship with your Realtor. She felt comfortable talking to you about her son, and you consoled her. I'd do that and wouldn't mind someone touching me that way. Did you actually say "There, there."? Hee. 

 

And the other situation you mentioned: the person you date or are married to is supposed to be affectionate. Those are intimate relationships, and intimate (non-sexual) touch is a big part of that closeness. 

 

--Going back to church hugs: The most memorable church hug of my life occurred on a Christmas Eve almost 30 years ago. I was in high school, and my family was attending Midnight Mass. The family of a boy I was desperately in love with was seated on the other side of the church. BTW, he didn't really know I existed and only saw me as his kid sister's best friend. Anyway, during the "Peace Be With You" time, when the priest told us to hug our neighbor, I literally (yes, literally) sprinted across the church so I could hug this guy--well, I hugged the entire family, but it was all about Lover Boy. *sigh*   But I had a relationship with the family--they were friends, and I didn't mind this display of affection and closeness.

 

--With my current family, which doesn't include Lover Boy, sad to say, we're relatively affectionate with one another. I have a husband and two sons, so when we hug, it's me initiating the hug. But my husband and I always kiss hello and goodbye. And when my kids and I sit next to each other on the couch, we sit close and often rest our feet or legs on one another. Or one of the boys will lean against me. So I'm not against affection. I'm just very stingy with it because to me it symbolizes emotional closeness. 

 

For your bursitis, that stinks. It's one of those things that annoyingly pops up every now and then. Do Icy-Hot patches help?

Edited March 7, 2016 by topanga

[auntlada]

I honestly never realized it could feel so invasive to others.

 

Does the resistance extend to people who are touchy-feely in other ways? For example, my realtor, who is basically a business acquaintance, had a sad personal moment once when the subject of her dead son came up. She and I were sitting next to each other at a table, and I first clasped my hand over hers and then rubbed her back and gave her shoulder a squeeze. "There, there. I'm here, I feel sorry for your loss."

I don't know how to describe it exactly, but I had a physical reaction to your story. Maybe cringe? My shoulders went up and shoulder blades drew together. So, yeah, it extends to that. In that situation, I would most appreciate the other person carrying on and pretending it didn't happen. I don't talk seriously about my father, who died two mnths before my only child and his only grandson was born, with anyone but my mom and my son. With other people, I tell stories, but they are always silly stories. Fortunately, there are a lot of those because my father was a remarkably silly man -- in a good way -- who loved a good story that would make people laugh.

Basically, beyond a handshake, don't touch.

[Bastet]

I've often said I could never date a guy who wasn't physically affectionate.  If he claims to love me, he'd damned well better show it by holding my hand, walking with an arm around me, giving me a kiss hello and goodbye, sitting cuddled on the couch, etc.

 

I'd be shoving him off me post haste.  There is no reason to be tangled with me while walking down the street, sitting on the couch watching TV, etc.  You see affection, I see clinginess and possibly possessiveness. 

 

I guess I just don't understand this level of touching where people feel free to wrap other people up regardless of circumstance.  With people I know, a hug and kiss hello/good-bye is great.  (I see my parents pretty much weekly, so we don't always hug or kiss, but we may, and certainly will if someone has been away.  I hug friends hello/good-bye all the time.)  A hand hold or similar caress to offer support in times of stress.  With an intimate partner, all kinds of touching is good -- when we're in the midst of things or on occasion, not all the time (and, for Pete's sake, when it's time to go to sleep, it's time to go to sleep -- get off me).  But in a professional situation or with someone I've just met (e.g. a friend of a friend saying good-bye a few hours after we were introduced, or certainly when we've just been introduced), to hug rather than shake hands is completely bizarre to me, and I'm not doing it.  I won't be rude about it, even though I think it was rude they tried to impose that on me to begin with, but I'll be firm.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Bastet

[zxy556575]

I usually do swoop in for a hug with friends I haven't seen them in a while (which may mean a couple of weeks). I sure hope they'd say something if it's bothersome to them! I think my default from now on will be to wait for the other person to make the first move. Paranoia!

 

This reminds me of a conversation on a community discussion board about being called "hon" or "dear" or "Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms" by strangers (generally restaurant servers and cashiers). The members are primarily seniors, but there was zero consensus. The responses ranged from people who liked it, didn't mind it, didn't notice, or hated it and considered it to be rude: "Call me Mr. Tibbs!"

 

Who knows why -- maybe a dormant mental switch activates when one retires and moves to Florida -- but I've started saying, "Thank you, dear" to young people (not other seniors) when they ring up my Maalox or whatever.

Edited March 7, 2016 by lordonia

[JTMacc99]

I've got a couple old college friends who are big on the hug (with the pat on the back previously mentioned here), and it doesn't feel right unless they do it when I see them at this point.  But just with those guys.  There are other ones who are the hearty handshake and "How have you been! You look great!" And there are a couple who are just a nod and a mention of the other's name.  Heh. And I love all of them the same, and each way of saying hello means exactly the same thing to me.

[ABay]

1. No touching!

 

2. If someone goes for the European two-cheek kiss, which way are you supposed to move?

[topanga]

I usually do swoop in for a hug with friends I haven't seen them in a while (which may mean a couple of weeks). I sure hope they'd say something if it's bothersome to them! I think my default from now on will be to wait for the other person to make the first move. Paranoia!

 

This reminds me of a conversation on a community discussion board about being called "hon" or "dear" or "Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms" by strangers (generally restaurant servers and cashiers). The members are primarily seniors, but there was zero consensus. The responses ranged from people who liked it, didn't mind it, didn't notice, or hated it and considered it to be rude: "Call me Mr. Tibbs!"

Go ahead and spread your arms, lordonia. You know you want to. But if the other person gets an "Oh, shit!" look in their eyes, then they probably don't want a hug. Nothing personal against you, of course. 

 

Love the Mr. Tibbs reference!

 

 

2. If someone goes for the European two-cheek kiss, which way are you supposed to move?

 

That's worse than the unwanted hug! I'm always afraid I'm going to accidentally (and inappropriately) kiss someone on the lips. 

[BookWoman56]

I don't know how to describe it exactly, but I had a physical reaction to your story. Maybe cringe? My shoulders went up and shoulder blades drew together.

 

During a job interview a few years ago, I got one of those generic "Describe a situation in which you had to adapt your personal workstyle to work effectively with someone with a very different workstyle" questions. My response was that in a previous position, we had clients who were very touch-feely and liked to hug when they came for their occasional site visit. We had mutual respect and a good working relationship, and I had to train myself not to cringe/flinch when they would hug me. It was very important to the company to keep this client happy, but if I had ever gotten a sense of the hugs being an excuse for random touching or a lack of respect on their part, I would have found a way to opt out.

I'd be shoving him off me post haste.  There is no reason to be tangled with me while walking down the street, sitting on the couch watching TV, etc.  You see affection, I see clinginess and possibly possessiveness. 

Agreed. I don't want to have to express my affection, either by touch or in words, for someone 14 times a day. I sure as hell don't want someone hanging on to me every minute. When I want physical intimacy, I want the other person to be focused on that intimacy, not having physical touch be there as more or less background noise on an ongoing basis.

[Quof]

Agreed. I don't want to have to express my affection, either by touch or in words, for someone 14 times a day. I sure as hell don't want someone hanging on to me every minute

I always yell at the tv during House Hunters as the couple wanders through the (empty, already purchased) house "Why are you holding hands???? Are you afraid one of you will get lost in the empty house you have already purchased?"

[BookWoman56]

To the shopper ahead of me and one other person in line at the grocery store checkout: Look, it's great that someone gave you a gift card for grocery shopping. What's not so great is your apparent inability or unwillingness to keep up with your running total of items you want to purchase using that gift card. So, this business of having the clerk ring up your total and then deciding not once but twice, that hey, as long as you still have some money left on that gift card, you need to go back and buy more crap, leaving those of us in line behind you waiting on you: not cool at all.

 

I will say the poor sales clerk eventually did the right thing and got another clerk to come take the carts from the person in front of  me and me, open up another line, and get us checked out. Seriously, though, WTF is wrong with people? Standing in line to check out at the store is bad enough without this kind of nonsense.

[zxy556575]

I know it can't be true but it sure seems like I always get stuck behind the Person With Complicated Checkout Issues: beaucoup coupons, some of which have expired, pricing questions, leaky milk cartons that need to be replaced, verifying which specific items are/are not on sale, special bagging requests, register tape running out, going back to get that one item they forgot, slowly starting to write a check (a freaking check!) only after all items are completely rung up, etc. Then of course not moving out of the checkout lane until change and checkbooks are put back in the purse, receipt is tucked into the wallet, and chat with the bagboy is complete.

 

But that's not even my peeve.  :)

 

I sold my house three years ago for reasons (primarily roach-related) and rented a place my sister bought directly across the street from her. I hasten to add that I pay full market value rent for this area of $1150/month. I deliberately don't have a lot of possessions, so half my closets and the spare bedroom are empty. My sister has too much stuff and keeps buying more, so her solution is to put the excess in my house. This means her golf cart is in my garage, as are most of her seasonal decorations. Then I came home today and noticed that she had put a bed and chair in my spare bedroom, along with more file boxes in the closet. Now, I wouldn't necessarily mind any of this because I do have room and don't really care, but she never even asks me! She always sneakily does it when I'm out. I feel like deducting $100 off my rent check each month for serving as her personal storage locker.

 

P.S. She is the bossy older sister, if you hadn't deduced that already.

Edited March 8, 2016 by lordonia

[krimimimi]

Spambots!

[BookWoman56]

I sold my house three years ago for reasons (primarily roach-related) and rented a place my sister bought directly across the street from her. I hasten to add that I pay full market value rent for this area of $1150/month. I deliberately don't have a lot of possessions, so half my closets and the spare bedroom are empty. My sister has too much stuff and keeps buying more, so her solution is to put the excess in my house. This means her golf cart is in my garage, as are most of her seasonal decorations. Then I came home today and noticed that she had put a bed and chair in my spare bedroom, along with more file boxes in the closet. Now, I wouldn't necessarily mind any of this because I do have room and don't really care, but she never even asks me! She always sneakily does it when I'm out. I feel like deducting $100 off my rent check each month for serving as her personal storage locker.

 

P.S. She is the bossy older sister, if you hadn't deduced that already.

Lordonia, this is why I refuse to have a business relationship with a family member. If this were not your sister, you would feel absolutely justified in demanding a reduction in rent and that she quit coming into the rental property when you are not there and dumping stuff. Given that it is your sister, maybe you should tell her she needs to either reduce  your rent by what she would pay for a storage place for her extra crap, or else move her extra crap into a storage place. Also, she needs to consider whether maybe she has a shopping addiction/compulsion. When you fill up your own place but then continue to buy more stuff to the extent you have to store it elsewhere, there's a problem.

 

I am probably in the minority but I think that when you are in front of the cashier, that is YOUR time and everyone behind you needs to just wait their turn. 

Stewedsquash, I have no problem with waiting for someone to make sure the cashier is ringing things up correctly, bagging stuff as preferred, and putting the debit card/checkbook back into place. But I do have an issue with someone who goes into the checkout line and decides that he or she is not really finished shopping, so that the cashier can't close out the sale on the register. To me there's a big difference between realizing while you are still in line that you forgot item A, and sending your kid to sprint across the store for item A and get back in time before checkout is completed, versus going through checkout only to decide that you need to halt the entire process and go buy more stuff. If the shopper who did that with the gift card had simply decided to finish being checked out, and then gone back for round 2 and round 3 of shopping, it wouldn't have held up anybody else. On top of that, this was in the express checkout line, supposedly limited to 15 items. She started out a few items over the count, but by the time she did her second round of adding items so she could use the entire gift card balance, she was easily up to 40 or 50 items. I just can't understand the thinking there; it's not like the gift card was going to expire if she didn't spend it all on one trip. This is a grocery chain with locations throughout the state, so it's again not like a one-time opportunity. The bottom line is we weren't waiting in line for her to get her stuff rung up; we were waiting in line for her to finish her shopping and then get rung up.

[ABay]

stewedsquash, you seem like a lovely person otherwise, but please never shop in the same stores I do.

Edited March 9, 2016 by ABay

[krimimimi]

I have one friend who insists on doing a three cheek air kiss smooch thing that drives me nuts. (Seriously, what is that called?) Mostly because I can never remember if I'm supposed to go left right left, or right left right. 20 years ago at a street festival, an older drunk guy in the crowd popped up in front of me and dragged me off into a parade for what was apparently supposed to be a foxtrot. I haven't a clue how to foxtrot, and pretty much felt like a rag doll. (He couldn't believe I didn't know standard dances, and I couldn't believe anyone would.) I haven't forgotten that feeling, and those multi cheek air kiss smooch things come pretty darn close. His wife is French, and even she doesn't do that. I know a couple of people who will do one or two cheeks. Three seems inflationary.

 

But like many others here, I keep schtumm and wait for it to pass. (Close your eyes and think of England.)  I think it's too late in the game to try to pass myself off as a nose squeezer, or something. They're not going to buy a sudden reversal.

 

 

backformore, I'm glad to know I'm not the only person who finds the hugging logistics overly complicated.

 

Nutmeg, thanks for providing some food for thought. I tend to tell boys they're handsome and girls that they are smart. I guess I never considered that self-confidence is a multifaceted thing. I guess it's time for me to rethink that.

[DeLurker]

I've often said I could never date a guy who wasn't physically affectionate. If he claims to love me, he'd damned well better show it by holding my hand, walking with an arm around me, giving me a kiss hello and goodbye, sitting cuddled on the couch, etc. .

Being affectionate when you are dating is one thing, but after you've been a couple for a bit or are married, I would expect it to be turned down a notch or two (but not completely).  For some couples, continuing to hold hands and the like comes off as natural, but sometimes it comes across as an affectation - a nonsubtle way to mark your territory or show your desirability.  I guess that is the distinction I am making - when you get a sense it is being put on for public consumption.

[Demented Daisy]

I can't sleep if someone is touching me (or vice versa).  I mean, even if my knee grazes my husband's leg, I wake up.  No idea why.

[zxy556575]

I want to punch your bossy sister in the face.

 

THANK YOU! I had a very small family to start with and she and I are the only ones left. We have 60+ years of shared history and memories that nobody else in the world knows about now, but I tell ya -- if she and I weren't related, I would never be friends with her. Too many eggshells.

 

I wouldn't expect my SO to be hugging on me all the time, but he needs to be comfortable with the thought of it. I couldn't be with someone who, like, refused to hold hands in public.

[Qoass]

 

I have one friend who insists on doing a three cheek air kiss smooch thing that drives me nuts. (Seriously, what is that called?)

 

Pretentious.

[NutMeg]

I'm not at all into PDA, including holding hands in public, but I sleep best my best with the one I loved wrapped around me :)