Relationships: Speed Dating

[patchwork]

I think the show was aiming for it all being about timing with Iris/Barry and Iris/Eddie.

 

If Barry hadn't been in a coma then things with Eddie probably wouldn't have become serious.

If Barry had said something sooner like before Iris had made the commitment to move in with Eddie then Barry could have had a chance.

 

So it's not that Iris doesn't have more than platonic feelings for Barry it's just they were a maybe that didn't happen because events worked out in such a way that she met and fell in love with someone else. Then that someone else died and that changes things. 

 

I'm not bothered that Iris chose her long term live in boyfriend, it makes sense given her character and the context. IMO that choice doesn't lessen Iris and Barry getting together further down the line. Break ups happen, partners die and people move on, they fall in love again and forge new relationships. Barry is not the runner up here. WestAllen isn't ruined because Iris didn't dump Eddie the moment Barry confessed his feelings or refuse to take back the man she loves because in a timeline she knows nothing about she confessed she sometimes thought about Barry in a more than friends kinda way.  

[ruby24]

Well, in that timeline she seemed pretty darn ready to go for it with Barry- but in the one they were stuck in she just couldn't get to that point for some reason. Still though, if it happened then that means the feelings are pretty strong, just buried deep. I still predict it'll probably happen at the end of S2- unless they think she's going to need longer than a year to grieve.

[Cirien]

So, I usually hate tumblr because a lot of views on there are very...radical? Anyway, I found this post about Eddie/Iris and I'll admit that it's a very interesting theory, one that could work, besides a few minor problems. I think I'm just gonna take it as my headcanon because why not? It's basically arguing why Iris/Eddie happened to be endgame in this particular timeline and that Eobard accidentally changed a bit too much and switched out the Barry/Iris endgame. I think it's a short but interesting theory, and I like it. Although it seems to imply that Eddie sacrifices himself also so Barry/Iris can get together, which...eh. And I even like WestAllen. I just like WestThawne a bit more.

I would get behind that theory except the first quote is Joe talking to Barry about how he'll  end up with Iris someday. But still its good theory. And if Eddie does become Cobalt Blue as both the ep and Rick indicated, then it's oddly romantic that both Lines will join in the form  of Bart Allen

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

My ultimate fear is knowing now that time & alternate universes have been made a very distinct possibility - at any time, in-show - that Barry/Iris (if indeed, that is the planned "endgame") will always be 'sometimes Yes', most the time 'No'.  At least, until near the series finale.  [/fear born of Show being a CW product]

 

Please prove me very wrong, TPTB!

[ruby24]

You mean like we see them together in one universe and not in the other one? Now there's a way to have it both ways!

 

Yeah, I hope that's not the way they go with it. I would really prefer it if they actually got together for good at some point (soon) and then just did the show without the annoying on/off stuff. There's plenty of drama that can happen when a couple's together too- in the comics they're together for decades and there's constant drama. She could be kidnapped, whisked into the future, separated by time travel shenanigans...I guess what I'm saying is there's ways to separate people without breaking them up, and there's ways to do the show with them just being a couple and not necessarily focusing on relationship drama.

 

But it is the CW, so maybe they demand that kind of thing. But honestly, I don't think relationship drama is necessary on sci-fi/action-adventure shows. It's never the best part (I don't think they do it very well anyway), and the show could be just as entertaining and fun without will they/won't they frustration. Frankly, it just gets more irritating the longer it drags out.

Edited May 21, 2015 by ruby24

[Trini]

So with Oliver Queen driving off into the sunset with Felicity, he's going to have to visit Barry and amend his statement about "not getting the girl", right?  ;-)

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So with Oliver Queen driving off into the sunset with Felicity, he's going to have to visit Barry and amend his statement about "not getting the girl", right?  ;-)

 

Hee! 

 

A reason to keep them apart won't be because Barry doesn't 'do enough' as Flash.  'Cuz if racing through time and then (trying, at least) out-racing a Singularity - to stop it - doesn't impress Iris, nothing will.

 

 

I need to actually see it happen before I'm willing to hope and bet that Show will go against the usual CW 'romance tropes'.  And if they do go the non-traditional CW route, it will be a welcomed and glorious thing to behold.

[CabotCove]

My ultimate fear is knowing now that time & alternate universes have been made a very distinct possibility - at any time, in-show - that Barry/Iris (if indeed, that is the planned "endgame") will always be 'sometimes Yes', most the time 'No'.

 

IMO I think the alternate universe/timeline mean that Barry/Iris endgame possibilities would be more like "Most of the time YES, but sometimes NO". I do think they have  very good strong endgame chances but with the time travel thing, that might cause few possibilities and obstacles that could ruin their endgame plan.  The way I see it anyway. Im mostly optimistic with these two, not many alarm bells just yet for me. 

 

 

Take the hint and go with more of the stuff that's working, right?

 

The Flash has claimed the top rated show on the CW, doing way above and beyond whats "normal" for this network, truly exceptional performance for it host.  I think this is clearly some proof that the Team Flash set up has worked and is working, or at the very it is not hindering the show's success like some people claim here. 

I still dont see where Team  Flash is trying to copy Team Arrow.  its not to me. Its very different, has closer relationships, is more efficient .... and I couldn't be happier with this TRUE SUPERHERO TEAM & FAMILY. I see Iris as becoming part of this well oiled machine too, if not already.  JMO. 

 

Lord Mesa's Eddie and Iris tribute.

 

So sweet, good art. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by Conell

[catrice2]

I think it would be fine if they could find love interests for either Barry or Iris that they had chemistry with.  Barry had no chemistry with Linda, and was written to loo like an immature high school boy trying to have a thing with his teacher, and Iris and Eddie have zero chemistry.  I wish, as someone stated above, that they would realize that a romance is not necessary on these type of shows, but I get that it is already in the comic book. 

 

What doesn't work is all these contrived issues to keep them apart until they "discover" their destiny. It was sad that basically Iris said the same thing to Eddie as  he came back and said to her the week prior, but it took statements by a MAN (someone he didn't even know well) for it to have validity. 

 

They are making some of the fans actively hope for a relationship NOT to happen because of Iris' changing and different feelings from timeline to timeline. It makes no sense in one timeline she cannot let him go without professing her feelings, but in another timeline she just gives him hugs and tells him to "go for it." 

 

I would like for them to find Eddie a real love interest that he has chemistry with if they continue to have him on the show. I think he has served his purpose and was already rather bland.  It was never believable to me that Iris would fall for Eddie,or that Linda would be attracted to Barry. 

 

The show needs to figure out what they want to do with the romance if they continue with it.  Ronnie and Caitlyn also have zero chemistry.  How about Ronnie and Iris??? 

[ruby24]

I think it would be fine if they could find love interests for either Barry or Iris that they had chemistry with.  Barry had no chemistry with Linda, and was written to loo like an immature high school boy trying to have a thing with his teacher, and Iris and Eddie have zero chemistry.  I wish, as someone stated above, that they would realize that a romance is not necessary on these type of shows, but I get that it is already in the comic book. 

 

They are making some of the fans actively hope for a relationship NOT to happen because of Iris' changing and different feelings from timeline to timeline. It makes no sense in one timeline she cannot let him go without professing her feelings, but in another timeline she just gives him hugs and tells him to "go for it." 

 

 It was never believable to me that Iris would fall for Eddie,or that Linda would be attracted to Barry. 

 

I agree with you on the chemistry thing, although I don't know if it's the writing or the actors- to me, both Barry and Iris come across as really young (they could probably both easily play teenagers still), so maybe that's influencing the way they act sometimes. I mean, Barry with Linda to me seemed like he had never been on a date in his life (I think they even had Linda mention that). And I never bought Iris with Eddie either- first of all, he was obviously just a placeholder, because there was zero backstory/development or time spent on their relationship (I don't think they even expected the audience to care/root for those two), but second, he just seemed older/more mature than her. She seemed like much more of a young girl than a mature woman.

 

So, because Barry and Iris both seem on a younger, more naive level, by default they seem to match each other better than they do the extraneous love interests, imo. I'm thinking it's more the actors than the writers necessarily, but again the acting could be influencing the writing. Barry's very believable as this naive, inexperienced young guy. From watching this whole this season it honestly didn't seem to me as though he'd ever had a girlfriend.

 

This is probably the reason that twentysomethings are still cast to play teens most of the time- a lot of people in their twenties (especially early to mid) just look and act really young still, so much so that when they're actually playing their age it's somehow less believable than if they were younger, lol.

 

The timeline stuff was very confusing and it's weird that in one she's completely into Barry and all ready to confess her love and go for it, while in the other, those feelings are apparently so far down that they cannot be shaken loose for some reason- I don't think there's really any logical reason for that, I just think it's their excuse to delay it as long as possible.

Edited May 24, 2015 by ruby24

[catrice2]

The only thing I disagree with is Eddie seeming mature.  I think both Barry and Eddie have shown flashes of maturity at times, but overall that is another reason why I've never gotten into the Eddie character.  He plays the "aw shucks, I'm a good guy," persona, that is very young. It does not make me believe him as a competent, adult detective capable of holding his own with Joe.  I have had zero interest in any scene he was in, whether it was with Iris, Barry or anyone else.  I don't know if that is a casting issue or what.  I also keep hearing him described as the handsome all american boy, when in actuality Barry is more attractive or equally attractive.  Eddie as cast does not play the "handsome hunk," but more of a less nerdy Barry.  His physique, nothing indicates that he is a "jock" yet that is how everyone acts, as if he is this unbelievably attractive and smart guy.  To each his own, but he is no Matt Bomer, or anyone else that you look at and you just HAVE to acknowledge that they are gorgeous.  Luke Mitchell would have been a much better Eddie. 

 

Also, I did this not to save people from an evil genius, but because I want to be your hero?   I can only hope the writers read message boards, etc and abandon this long drawn out love triangles or whatever you want to call them and stick closer to the action.  I was even hoping Iris would fall for the guy Mason at the paper. 

 

It was painful to watch them try to have Cisco flirt, because he is the most like a teenager.  You can be a funny, eccentric person but still be an adult.  

 

The wardrobe they have for all the characters is appalling. They dress Iris like she is trying to play dress up for "take your daughter to work day," and Caitlyn too matronly.  Barry never looks like he is actually going to work, rather to a lecture at the high school.  

 

I guess the biggest problem is all these relationships play out like high school or an episode of Sweet Valley high.  Can the romance, stick to the action!

[snowbarryvc]

Does anyone else enjoy Snowbarry? 

I know in the comic books, Barry and Iris get married, have twins, etc. but I really do ship Snowbarry.

Could it be possible although Ronnie and Caitlin got married in the finale? Someone out there has to agree that Caitlin and Barry are at least somewhat cute. Anyone?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Does anyone else enjoy Snowbarry? 

I know in the comic books, Barry and Iris get married, have twins, etc. but I really do ship Snowbarry.

Could it be possible although Ronnie and Caitlin got married in the finale? Someone out there has to agree that Caitlin and Barry are at least somewhat cute. Anyone?

 

I'm not and wouldn't be opposed to 'Snowbarry', but only if done naturally in an organic fashion - and not just used in a way to further the angsty denial of 'Westallen'.

 

And it would depend on exactly when they plan on turning Caitlin into "Killer Frost".  If not for, at least, a couple of seasons yet, then OK.  But if they plan on doing it before this season is over, then it wouldn't work within the time constraints. 

(especially if Patty really will be a LI for Barry, in S2)

Edited June 23, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Trini]

Non-spoilery post from the Spoiler thread:

GG has kind of a puppy dog vibe to him, and he really comes across as kind of a big kid, so I'm wondering if that's the reason for a lack of sexual/romantic chemistry with the girls (and why he's good playing son to the father figures). He's so sweet, but I don't know if he can pull off the kind of heat that's needed for that kind of chemistry in an onscreen relationship. I saw zero with Caitlin, even less with Linda (he seemed scared of her if anything), and with Iris and Felicity he seemed more friendly than anything else.

 

I think he can work with Iris though, because she also has a sweet, genuine personality that I think can match with his. I just don't know if we're going to get the typical kind of fireworks chemistry with him and another actress, it's probably going to be more low key.

 

Although, I think it's hard to get genuine chemistry, when it happens it's more luck than anything. The last CW couple that I saw undeniable, explosive sparks between was Leighton Meester and Ed Westwick on Gossip Girl. It's pretty rare.

 

Different strokes, I guess, because I do think Grant/Barry has chemistry with Iris and Felicity. With Iris, it was shown more in the first half of the season when they actually had her and Barry hang out as friends, and she interacted with his more confident Flash persona.

 

And I'm already on record that my fantasy 'ship is Barry and Felicity. :-)  (Think of the adorkable, crimefighting adventures they could have once they leave the baggage of both Starling and Central Cities behind!)

 

That being said, I do root for Iris/Barry -- eventually. Although, I'm pretty sure the writers here do NOT know how to do a slow burn. They can work as a couple, but I think they'd have to keep out a lot of angst and 'drama', which is probably impossible for a CW/comic show.

[ruby24]

 

That being said, I do root for Iris/Barry -- eventually. Although, I'm pretty sure the writers here do NOT know how to do a slow burn. They can work as a couple, but I think they'd have to keep out a lot of angst and 'drama', which is probably impossible for a CW/comic show.

Yes, that's exactly the key. They can be a couple, but as a couple they ought to be fun and funny together, not angsty. I don't think it should be that hard for this show to do that, since they want the show to maintain a light tone, but they can't leave Iris in mourning for too long or she's going to be stained with the "mopey" attitude and I'm worried that's what they're going to do. A whole season of grieving Iris would be really hard for her character to recover from with the audience, imo. This show wants to see its characters having fun most of the time.

[driedfruit]

It does look like Iris is in for a rough season and not just because of Eddie.

Her relationship with Joe will likely take a hit once she finds out about him lying about her mother.

[Xander]

I also think that Barry and Felicity have chemistry and I hope he and

Patty

have something similar. 

[Chip]

Please keep any characters/spoilers from the comics contained in the comic thread (http://forums.previously.tv/topic/7247-comics-questions-and-info/).

[Trini]

Non-spoilery from the Spoiler Thread:

Sorry, I don't see any incest vibes at all. I see two folks who are best friends. No different than two kids raised next door to each other, in and out of each others homes, vacations with each other, thinking of the others parents as their second set of parents, etc.  Moreover, THEY don't consider it incest nor do they even think of each other as siblings. Finally, really SOs can't refer to parents as moms and dads? That's messed up. 

 

  Its not actual incest obviously but the way the writers frame the relationship , they weirdly put them in a sibling corner when they could focus on their long term friendship.  They could just downplay their foster siblinghood, out of sight out of mind, but instead the writers overemphasis it. Why, I really dont get them. Anyway different strokes, to me this quite an obstacle and  a major put off with WestAllen. I still like them but I think the show makes some silly wrong turns with these two. 

 

From the start that was one of the things I complained about, and said that they'd need to untangle that mess if they want everyone on board with Barry/Iris. As for why, I think they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted the father-son relationship with Barry and Joe, while also having Iris be Barry's love interest.

 

And even weirder, they have Joe cheerleading that 'ship. Yes, they're not actual siblings but it's still fairly squicky. We'll see how well that works out for them (the writers).

Edited July 9, 2015 by Trini

[CabotCove]

From the start that was one of the things I complained about, and said that they'd need to untangle that mess if they want everyone on board with Barry/Iris. As for why, I think they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted the father-son relationship with Barry and Joe, while also having Iris be Barry's love interest.  

 

 

Yeah, I didnt like how they gave them that backstory right from the get go, but I  thought the show would be smart about it, but as the season progressed they really got carried away with how they wrote Barry/Joe relationship. It honestly wasnt like this in the first episodes,  in the second half of the season its like Barry is Joe's actual son, with the way they wrote them. Which made Iris/Barry quite sibling-y to me. I really like the actors' & characters' chemistry so I'm put in a tough position about WestAllen romance. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by Conell

[CabotCove]

Yeah, I know what you mean there. I think he has good chemistry in general with a lot of people, but when they've tried to pair him up with girls romantically I don't feel any kind of sexual chemistry at all. He seems like everybody's innocent friend or brother, and I think he needs to be able to generate some heat with a person at some point. In order to be believable.

I disagree, seems to me only a certain type of man is allowed to be a romantic lead on TV. The hulk type. Both Cisco and Barry are treated as if they are asexual in fandom coincidence?, I bet its because they dont have the conventional body of a male tv character and are geeky male characters . GG to me makes a great romantic lead because of how expressive he is and his acting skills. Barry is a good man, who would be a good boyfriend/husband. But none of that seems to matter except how he looks. I think expectations of what a romantic male lead looks like are what need to change, JMO.

Edited October 4, 2015 by WildcardC

[Ruby25]

It's not about his looks at all! It's about whether he generates sexual chemistry/heat with an actress, and that I haven't seen with him. Not yet, anyway.

[CabotCove]

Fair enough, I still think its a factor on how he is perceived as a romantic male lead.  

 

But each to their own.

Edited October 3, 2015 by WildcardC

[Ruby25]

See, I can think of several examples of guys on CW/WB shows who were unconventional looking and managed to have sizzling chemistry with an actress they were paired with. One was Joshua Jackson back when he was on Dawson's Creek- he was always popular as Pacey because of his charisma and humor, and people loved his chemistry with Katie Holmes, but I would never have said he was like this typical hunk or anything. Another was Jason Dohring on Veronica Mars- people loved him and Kristen Bell together and the chemistry was off the charts, but I also wouldn't have called him the most conventionally attractive guy in the world. And then there was Gossip Girl, with Ed Westwick and Leighton Meester- again, electric chemistry and I wouldn't have called him the conventional hunk type either (that was supposed to be Chace Crawford on that show).

 

I really don't think it has anything to do with looks. People respond to personality and charisma more, especially if it really pops off the screen. And people like Grant Gustin for those reasons as well- I'm just saying I haven't seen that manifest itself in terms of sizzling, romantic chemistry with an actress yet. I know the producers pride themselves on doing these chemistry tests now, but I haven't seen any romantic pairing on Flash or Arrow that matches the kind of obvious, eye-popping chemistry of say, the three previous pairs I mentioned. When it's really, really there, it's usually quite clear to a lot of people.

 

Although another factor in those other pairs was that none of them were planned originally and it sort of happened accidentally because of the actor's chemistry. I think it's actually quite rare to have your intended pairing work out exactly as well as you hope for. But if they're looking for someone who's just going to pop with Grant Gustin by accident, I haven't seen it yet- they've kinda placed him with Felicity, Iris, Linda and Caitlin so far, and all I see with any of them is a platonic, brotherly vibe. It's fine, it's not bad, because he's a good actor, but if we're looking for real romantic, sexual desire, I just haven't felt that kind of heat. It's possible he just doesn't exude that kind of vibe (although I don't think it happens with everyone- I'm sure if they found the right girl, it could suddenly show up in a way it hasn't before, but they might never find her for this show).

 

I find that for me to become really into a couple, I kinda need that to happen. I can't just ship somebody because they're together, I need to feel that intensity/desire between the actors that really stands out.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Ruby25

[phoenics]

I keep thinking that part of the thing with The Flash and Iris and Barry is that they haven't let the chemistry out all of the way yet. There was a very different chemistry with The Flash and Iris, than Iris and Barry. Now that Iris knows, I expect that to shift a little bit.

We'll see I guess...

[Wynterwolf]

Although another factor in those other pairs was that none of them were planned originally and it sort of happened accidentally because of the actor's chemistry. 

 

Those are generally the ones I respond to most too (especially Logan and Veronica), but I agree it's exceedingly rare (and often in the eye of the beholder... a lot of people see tons of romantic chemistry between Red and Liz on The Blacklist but the only thing I see there is a Father/Daughter bond).  I also love relationships that might be a little less fiery, but still come across like a tight, balanced, equal partnership so I don't necessarily require smoldering sparks to enjoy a pairing.  But I have to agree that in the case of Barry, I think he has terrific 'platonic relationship' chemistry with basically everybody, but I haven't really seen anything I would term romantic chemistry with any female or male characters.  That isn't to say that they couldn't evolve an existing relationship and make me believe it, but I just haven't seen anything yet.  

[Ruby25]

I keep thinking that part of the thing with The Flash and Iris and Barry is that they haven't let the chemistry out all of the way yet. There was a very different chemistry with The Flash and Iris, than Iris and Barry. Now that Iris knows, I expect that to shift a little bit.

We'll see I guess...

Okay, you know what? I do sort of agree with you about that! I forgot about that, but The Flash and Iris in the early part of the season were very, very cute together, and frankly I don't even think they did enough with that. But I wonder how much of it might have been the simple setup of the old Lois Lane/Superman thing where she's giddy about one and not the other- that's always been pretty appealing and slightly romantic comedy-ish in its effect, no matter who the hero/damsel is (Spider-Man/Mary Jane, Superman/Lois, Batman and whoever).

 

Plus, Barry's voice was altered there and he also wasn't quite acting like himself, so it's hard to know if whatever was going on there would translate to plain old Barry and Iris. It'd be nice if it could, but I have to wonder if the costume and secret identity added a lot to the effect of those scenes.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Ruby25

[phoenics]

I think it was also Iris' response to The Flash - she clearly had a bit of a crush on him. But it was also in Barry himself as the Flash - the way that he regarded her more openly and allowed his desire to sit on the surface more.

He openly flirted with her (which was problematic, but for the sake of the chemistry discussion let's ignore that for now).

I still remember the scene of them on the rooftop with her back turned to him and him approaching her as she talked. That scene was searingly hot - they never did enough with that, imo. Though I can understand why.

I tend to think that this year with Iris being in on the secret and The Flash being her guardian angel - we might see a few unguarded moments between the two of them where the chemistry is let out in little stolen looks and lingering glances and perhaps a few desperate clutches after one of them is nearly killed, etc..

There was the green screen shot of Iris flying out of some window - I'm thinking Flash will be there to catch her when she does...

[Ruby25]

Yeah, maybe you're right- Iris was so open and flirty and The Flash was too, and the chemistry definitely worked between them in those scenes.

 

But Iris is supposed to be kind of guarded around Barry, so maybe if she was allowed to show real feelings for him and him her, and they could have fun together (since there wasn't any angst stuff going on with Flash and Iris, they were just openly flirting and obviously enjoying each other) then that would work in their favor. Maybe.

 

I do think being able to see that two people actually enjoy being around each other is key to the chemistry in a lot of cases too- that was certainly the case with The Flash and Iris, not as much with Barry and Iris because of the need for "angst." I wonder if they're going to remember that this season and let us see that they're supposed to be friends for a reason.

 

For the record, I think that was a major problem with Oliver/Laurel on Arrow- I can't think of a single scene or moment where we saw that the two of them actually liked being around each other or had anything to talk about other than their failed relationship. I mean, even in a flashback scene when they were supposed to be dating, they could have shown them having fun together, like at least a couple of times or something.

 

That may have been the reason those early Flash/Iris scenes worked, because the two of them were obviously having fun, flirting and bantering and clearly enjoying each other.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Ruby25

[driedfruit]

See, I can think of several examples of guys on CW/WB shows who were unconventional looking and managed to have sizzling chemistry with an actress they were paired with. One was Joshua Jackson back when he was on Dawson's Creek- he was always popular as Pacey because of his charisma and humor, and people loved his chemistry with Katie Holmes, but I would never have said he was like this typical hunk or anything. Another was Jason Dohring on Veronica Mars- people loved him and Kristen Bell together and the chemistry was off the charts, but I also wouldn't have called him the most conventionally attractive guy in the world. And then there was Gossip Girl, with Ed Westwick and Leighton Meester- again, electric chemistry and I wouldn't have called him the conventional hunk type either (that was supposed to be Chace Crawford on that show).

 

The couples you mentioned had sizzling chemistry largely because of the way their characters were set up. The tension, the low key animosity, the flirty banter... 

 

Iris/Barry aren't red hot, because that wouldn't be in line with their characters .They're not butting heads like Chuck/Blair or Veronica/Logan, and there's no rogue flirty half between them like Pacey. If Candice's Iris was as bold and forward as comic Iris when she first met Barry, then we might've had a dynamic that was sexier. It would be interesting if the writers had Iris grow in that direction as she develops as a journalist, but it's more likely they're going to Strong Female her to appease the fandom. 

[Ruby25]

Okay, well, here's another one I think had absolutely red hot chemistry just in looking at each other- Claire Danes and Damian Lewis on Homeland. That was another pair that was originally not going to be a romantic thing, but from the first moment they had a scene together (which wasn't even supposed to be romantic), the producers admitted that they changed course because you couldn't see the two of them onscreen together and not think they didn't want to jump each other's bones at every moment. They had to respond to that and they went with it. And those two weren't supplied with a lot of witty banter, it was just a glaring, overwhelming physical attraction that showed itself on screen.

 

I think it's just a rare thing that happens with some actors mostly by accident. And yeah, Barry and Iris aren't exactly written to have a really sexy dynamic, but I think if a strong sexual chemistry had shown up anyway, like it does with some people in spite of the writing, I'm sure they would have been more than happy to run with it. In fact, they probably would have loved it. I think writers/producers do hope for that kind of accidental magic to occur somewhere, especially if they don't have a specifically contained story to tell and are going to have to fill 23 episode seasons on a network series.

 

It certainly explains how they became completely (detrimentally I would say) obsessed with the Felicity character on Arrow- that was all because of EBR's quirks and particular delivery that stood out from the rest of the cast. And tbh, I think it also explains why they've already in one season, slightly overplayed the Barry/Joe relationship (or at least it became more heavy-handed by season's end), because the duo that actually had the most chemistry (of any kind) on The Flash was GG and JLM. And that was obvious pretty early on. I think they're great together too, but even I can see that they may have overdone that a little bit by the year's end.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Ruby25

[driedfruit]

I find Barry and Joe overdone and boring. JLM has better chemistry with Candice and, to a lesser degree, with Carlos. I don't see anything special or noteworthy between JLM and Grant and honestly wish the show would cut down on their scenes. 

 

I'm not familiar with Homeland so I can't say much there. EPs tend to see chemistry where they want. The EPs for Flash apparently cast Candice because of the chemistry she had with Grant. Ultimately, every actor is different and every chemistry is distinct to the actors involved. Grant and Candice's chemistry doesn't work for everyone, but I personally find them sexier than the couples you've mentioned. Different strokes...

Edited October 4, 2015 by driedfruit

[SevenStars]

The only one I've seen have sexual chemistry on the show is Flash/Iris.

[Trini]

I think we might need this thread a lot for this season!

Relationship changes going into Season 2:

 

• The Flash becoming a much more public figure, and partner(?) with Central City law enforcement.
• Barry has lost his mentor ("Harrison Wells"), but will have a new mentor in Jay Garrick.
• Eddie's death effects Iris, Barry, and Joe.
• Patty Spivot is coming in as a work colleague for Joe and Barry; and probable love interest for Barry.
• Iris knows Barry's alter ego, and is a part of 'Team Flash' now.
• Will Iris get date again?
• Joe and Cisco working together more.
• Caitlyn
  (and Stein, I guess) dealing with Ronnie's death(?).

• We'll learn a little more about
  Iris' mother/Joe's wife.

• And Wally West will be coming later in the season; but we don't know how he is related to anyone yet.

[Trini]

From SD Comic Con:

 

[Ruby25]

How solid is the WestAllen footing, do you think? Like, if Grant Gustin somehow has amazing chemistry with Shantel Van Santen that didn't show up with the other girls, what are the chances the show pulls an Arrow and abandons the Barry/Iris pairing? I'm wary of something like that happening, just because they did it before.

[patchwork]

How solid is the WestAllen footing, do you think? Like, if Grant Gustin somehow has amazing chemistry with Shantel Van Santen that didn't show up with the other girls, what are the chances the show pulls an Arrow and abandons the Barry/Iris pairing? I'm wary of something like that happening, just because they did it before.

 

I don't think they will, they were able to move on from the failure that is Laurel/Oliver because she's Laurel Lance aka Black Canary and there's a lot of untapped story potential there.

I hate to say it, because of the two I vastly prefer Iris, but she's the love interest- there's no other purpose for her on the show. But on a more positive note she's a Lois Lane not a Lana Lang and like in Smallville the show will keep plugging away with their canon ship until people came around.

[Chip]

I just moved a few days of recent posts to this thread from the "Lightning Rods" topic, since it applied more here.

 

chip

[Sakura12]

Iris does have a purpose beyond just a love interest if they choose to follow her comic book canon. 

 

If Barry and Patty have sizzling chemistry and the shippers flock to them like Olicity. Then we might see a change. I don't think that will happen, but if they get a following the EP's might go with what works again like they did on Arrow. Iris has the advantage of not being hated as much as Laurel was and not having anti-chemistry with GG. I'm hoping they for their sake they don't keep Barry and Iris separate for most the season. They don't need to start dating but they do need to have tons of friendship scenes where they are helping each other and supporting one another. It seems we are getting that in premiere but it needs to continue throughout the season. 

[CabotCove]

How solid is the WestAllen footing, do you think? Like, if Grant Gustin somehow has amazing chemistry with Shantel Van Santen that didn't show up with the other girls, what are the chances the show pulls an Arrow and abandons the Barry/Iris pairing? I'm wary of something like that happening, just because they did it before.

 

 

Very solid.

First , there are a lot of  people who believe in the chemistry between GG/CP and BA/IW .  I dont disagree with the saying that chemistry is subjective, I respect that you dont see it, but the fact is WestAllen is popular so a lot of people were able to feel and see the chemistry. So chemistry is kind of a non issue.

 

Even IF GG has amazing chemistry with SVS , they are strong narrative reasons for WestAllen. It was the main love story of season 1 and there was a lot of foreshadowing of their future together, it is the long term plan of the series (romance-wise). Sacrificing the narrative and the long term plan for chemistry is not something most shows do or take lightly, it can mess up a show. Can result in retcons, rewrites and mess with continuity.

 

The Flash doesnt strike me as a show thats willing to take such a huge risk for some alluded chemistry. Chemistry matters but so does the story. And the story has shown that Barry has loved Iris for a long time and that narratively she matters  a lot in his life. I think they set up a beautiful love story for Barry/Iris to just give that up, Arrow didn't, so they were able to easily throw that away. I dont know whats gonna happen in the future but so far I can safely say there is little incentive to change from WestAllen to something else. Barry/Parry would  have to get through Snowbarry first anyway, SB has been the "big" rival for WA, yet its chances are slim. 

 

From SD Comic Con:

 

LOL, interesting what they think about shipping. Agree with CP on shipping's dark side. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by WildcardC

[phoenics]

Iris does have a purpose beyond just a love interest if they choose to follow her comic book canon. 

 

If Barry and Patty have sizzling chemistry and the shippers flock to them like Olicity. Then we might see a change. I don't think that will happen, but if they get a following the EP's might go with what works again like they did on Arrow. Iris has the advantage of not being hated as much as Laurel was and not having anti-chemistry with GG. I'm hoping they for their sake they don't keep Barry and Iris separate for most the season. They don't need to start dating but they do need to have tons of friendship scenes where they are helping each other and supporting one another. It seems we are getting that in premiere but it needs to continue throughout the season.

I think - based on comments from several producers - that they do plan on focusing on how Iris and Barry are growing even closer this season... even with Barry having a love interest. So I guess we will see.

I'm happy to see Iris getting stories that are just about her and her family, even if they will still intersect with The Flash - but Iris is the future Matriarch of the Flash Family, so yeah she's a love interest - but she also has a destiny as an ace reporter and based on spoilers, it looks like she'll be doing a lot of that this season - plus all the stuff with her mom.

And honestly, with Geoff Johns onboard, I don't see them dropping Westallen. The fallout would be ugly anyway, but Geoff Johns IS The Flash and he loves CP/Iris.

[Trini]

A Cisco/Golden Glider pairing can only end badly, YET, they've got me sold on it! Poor Cisco will probably get his heart broken, but I'll probably enjoy it up until that point.

[Trini]

I think - based on comments from several producers - that they do plan on focusing on how Iris and Barry are growing even closer this season... even with Barry having a love interest. So I guess we will see.

 

... And a month later, Barry and Iris barely have any best friend scenes, and they're trying way too hard with Patty. Even with Patty coming on, I thought they'd get Barry and Iris together by the end of this season, but now I'm not so sure.

 

---

Hey, remember when we were worried about Patty being a Felicity clone? Turns out she's more of a Barry/Felicity hybrid. Her role so far isn't really too similar to Felicity's role on Arrow.

[phoenics]

Brought over from the lightning rod thread...

I've been binge watching The OC (I fell and basically broke my foot and so I'm house bound in a cast for 9 more weeks) and it struck me how similar the whole Anna-Seth-Summer storyline feels to what's happening with Patty-Barry-Iris.

Seth has/had been in love with Summer since he was a wee little one, but she never knew he existed (only diff with Barry-Iris). Then they bring on Anna who is essentially a Seth clone, but female. The one saving grace of Anna is that she definitely had a personality and she was fun and witty and awesome. But I guess the female version of Seth Cohen would be that - though Anna had oodles of confidence that Seth didn't have.

Eventually the show had Seth/Summer dressing alike and then getting bored with the fact that they were exactly the same - just opposite genders. The lack of chemistry finally caught up to them and they broke up and Seth went after his heart's desire - Summer.

I loved Anna, but also loved Seth/Summer and Summer and Seth separately - it's the best triangle I've seen written on tv... mostly due to the charm of Adam Brody and his ability to sell Seth as adorkable. Plus, his shenanigans of trying to play both women because he'd never HAD women before worked - I especially remember Caleb's pleased laugh when Summer and Anna caught Seth. It was played with comedy and then both women were allowed to get angry about it and then fight back. Which they did.

But eventually Seth apologized so sincerely that both women started vying for him again - out in the open. And Seth chose... or rather Anna presented herself and Seth ended up with her by default. I kinda feel like Patty served herself up on a platter to Barry - he'd be dumb to say no, lol. But at the same time, since we aren't getting much in the way of scenes with Barry and Iris, it feels like the show is trying to erase history or something and that doesn't sit well with fans. And they aren't playing this with any genuine humor - it's just "cutesy" stuff. Anna and Seth were alike - but not in any way that felt fake. Barry and Patty being alike feels fake... the writing just isn't doing it in a genuine way. And without any real, genuine humor.

They are just pushing this Batty stuff and I don't see that going anywhere - it's just there.

Does the show think it has to play down all of the epic westallen stuff to make Batty work? Why? Rushing it isn't making anyone think that it's going to be here longterm, lol.

I keep wishing some of the Season 1 writers for The OC or Roswell were here - I haven't seen David Nutter's name anywhere and usually if he has something to do with an episode, the Westallen and all character interactions are really well done. If he's gone we're in trouble.

I think Patty would be getting a lot less vitriol from fans if Iris' other screen time wasn't practically non-existent and if it didn't feel like Barry and Iris' friendship was gone. Seriously - what happened to it?

Maybe Iris will get more in the back half of this season, but based on previous experience, I'm not holding my breath.

[SevenStars]

Living together like a brother and sister, as a family, doesn't make it a family. Adoption doesn't matter, just parentage. Having the same man act as father doesn't make you related. Two people who've never met each other should feel like siblings if they have DNA in common but two people who've lived together since they were children shouldn't.

Sorry, but even if you seems like simple common sense to you, your position is really rather extreme.

All I know is neither Iris or Barry ever claimed each other as sibling. Barry never thought of Iris as his sister because he was already in love with her before he moved in with her. Iris for some reason never thought of Barry as her brother.

So I don't understand why people are projecting their own ideas of the type of relationship the characters should have when they made it clear they don't have that relationship.

Being raised in the same house doesn't make you brother/sister. Joe being a father figure for Barry doesn't make Iris his sister. Since Barry's father was mostly out of the picture, any man who got close to Barry and treated him like a son would have been consider his other Dad. But that doesn't mean the man's children would be seen as Barry's sister.

Him being distance from Iris this season doesn't take away any incest feel because there was never any since neither Barry or Iris felt like they were others siblings, there was no adoption to make them brother/sister or blood ties.

So the idea of them being like brother/sister is something people expected, wanted but the writing never supported. They actually took time to disprove this believe.

[sjohnson]

Being raised in the same house makes them foster-brother and foster-sister. The notion that they are not really related in any way means an adopted child isn't really related either. 

 

All they've successfully shown I think is that Joe prefers the boy to the girl. 

 

I don't know how to take a ten year old's romantic attachment for life seriously. 

 

I didn't know who Iris West was before the show. I don't know why they have to be fosters siblings. 

[dirtypop90]

If a boy is looking at a girl in a romantic way, that will not change because they are placed under the same roof. Further, they are not even foster siblings. Iris nor barry are foster kids and joe is not a foster parent. I could've missed something but I don't recall anything about barry being a ward of the state and being placed in joe's home because joe is a state certified caregiver.   He just took in his friends kid.  The terms "foster kid" "foster care" and "foster parent" actually have legal meaning. And even if they were foster kids, foster kids placed in the same group home have entered relationships. There was also no adoption.

Edited November 14, 2015 by dirtypop90

[FurryFury]

It's interesting that you bring up Anna/Seth/Summer, because, in that case, I simply couldn't get what both of them saw in Seth - he acted like a real jerk all that time. In fact, this triangle ruined his character for me for the remainder of the show, so I seriously can't say it was a good example of a love triangle.

 

The best love triangle I've personally seen is on a manga/anime Chihayafuru which I doubt any of you have heard about, and even then, after a pretty long time I've started leaning into one direction because the other's started acting like an asshole. It's really, really tricky trope.

 

I wouldn't give a damn about Barry and Iris as foster siblings, hell, even real siblings (I've shipped Cesare/Lucretia on The Borgias like whoa), but they never did anything with the connection that should have resulted from that. They simply don't interact enough and on a deep enough level. This is the main problem with West Allen.

[venusnv80]

All I know is neither Iris or Barry ever claimed each other as sibling. Barry never thought of Iris as his sister because he was already in love with her before he moved in with her. Iris for some reason never thought of Barry as her brother.

So I don't understand why people are projecting their own ideas of the type of relationship the characters should have when they made it clear they don't have that relationship.

Being raised in the same house doesn't make you brother/sister. Joe being a father figure for Barry doesn't make Iris his sister. Since Barry's father was mostly out of the picture, any man who got close to Barry and treated him like a son would have been consider his other Dad. But that doesn't mean the man's children would be seen as Barry's sister.

Him being distance from Iris this season doesn't take away any incest feel because there was never any since neither Barry or Iris felt like they were others siblings, there was no adoption to make them brother/sister or blood ties.

So the idea of them being like brother/sister is something people expected, wanted but the writing never supported. They actually took time to disprove this believe.

Thank you.

[SevenStars]

Being raised in the same house makes them foster-brother and foster-sister. The notion that they are not really related in any way means an adopted child isn't really related either.

All they've successfully shown I think is that Joe prefers the boy to the girl.

I don't know how to take a ten year old's romantic attachment for life seriously.

I didn't know who Iris West was before the show. I don't know why they have to be fosters siblings.

An adopted child and foster child are two different things. An adopted child legally and morally belong to the family who adopted them. But a foster child belong to the state. Whoever took them is basically a hire babysitter until they are old enough to legally take care of themselves. No one in the family have an obligation to legally or morally view them as a family member. That's why foster kids are always desperate to be adopted because that's when they can, without question or doubt say they have a real family. That's why there are laws against adopted children marrying each other,but there no laws against foster children marrying each other.

People who are not legally or morally tie to each other like Iris/Barry/Joe can consider and see each other as siblings and parent/child. That means they have no physical or emotional desire for each other. They have no attractions towards each other. Barry and Joe have that relationship because they feel this way. Barry and Iris don't. Like I said before, just because we expect or want them to doesn't mean that they are bad or wrong morally or legally for not feeling this way. It is actually normal for them.

It's interesting that you bring up Anna/Seth/Summer, because, in that case, I simply couldn't get what both of them saw in Seth - he acted like a real jerk all that time. In fact, this triangle ruined his character for me for the remainder of the show, so I seriously can't say it was a good example of a love triangle.

The best love triangle I've personally seen is on a manga/anime Chihayafuru which I doubt any of you have heard about, and even then, after a pretty long time I've started leaning into one direction because the other's started acting like an asshole. It's really, really tricky trope.

I wouldn't give a damn about Barry and Iris as foster siblings, hell, even real siblings (I've shipped Cesare/Lucretia on The Borgias like whoa), but they never did anything with the connection that should have resulted from that. They simply don't interact enough and on a deep enough level. This is the main problem with West Allen.

I have never really encounter a triangle that I enjoy/love. That's why I dislike them very much.

As for Barry/Iris I kind of agree with you. The writers could do so much more with them but they refuse to do that.