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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

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This (unfortunately) makes the most sense, even if it means Pellegrino is now considered "one of the leads."  His dead wife was definitely one of his "driving forces".  

To me, it`s better this than something stupid like Ruby coming back. Because count me in with those who don`t want to see that kill undone. 

If it`s all part of the Nickifer story, I can continue fast-forwarding. Sorry to the actors but just no.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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S Cook Productions

S Cook Productions

2 hours ago, ahrtee said:

IMDb shows her character as Sarah. 

So much for her original story being "a driving factor" for Sam, but then I never believed her to be his One True Love (since they never mention Jessica any more.)  Maybe, since the ep has Donatello screwing with the timeline, her return here makes him have to decide whether to return the world back to the present (thus she'd be dead again), except wouldn't that be a repeat of, oh, WIAWSNB, episode 13 (the one after this one) and, IDK, My Heart Will Go On?

Maybe I'll skip the ep.  

Which one was Sarah? The one Crowley killed when he was undoing all of their good?

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

Now that's a definite and likely possibility...

Yes, that makes sense with the him coming face to face with his past too! That has to be it. Well done! 

gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

And the summary says "Nick comes face to face with his past". 

If I got this right, I`m giving myself candy.  :)

I'd give you a 90% chance :) 

The other 10%? I'd say 5% Ruby, although it would be a slap in the face to Gen, and 5% Meg - since Rachel is using a wheelchair these days. It would be inventive and cool to have her back using the chair, but I don't think SPN is that show.

I guess it all depends on who the 'lead' character is that is effected by her return. I'm pretty much ruling out Dean, so if it's Sam, then Sarah or Ruby, if it's Cas, then Meg, and if it's Nickifer, then f**k you show, he is NOT A LEAD. Throw tomatoes at me, but I don't consider Cas/Misha a lead either, but if anyone else deserves the title, is sure as hell isn't Pelligrino.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

I'd give you a 90% chance :) 

The other 10%? I'd say 5% Ruby, although it would be a slap in the face to Gen, and 5% Meg - since Rachel is using a wheelchair these days. It would be inventive and cool to have her back using the chair, but I don't think SPN is that show.

I guess it all depends on who the 'lead' character is that is effected by her return. I'm pretty much ruling out Dean, so if it's Sam, then Sarah or Ruby, if it's Cas, then Meg, and if it's Nickifer, then f**k you show, he is NOT A LEAD. Throw tomatoes at me, but I don't consider Cas/Misha a lead either, but if anyone else deserves the title, is sure as hell isn't Pelligrino.

When I watched the promo again, I was all "wait a minute". But what really sealed the deal for me was that the "dead wife" was called Sarah in the Season 5 Premiere. I know it`s a common name but seeing this new actress play a "Sarah" again? Too convenient. Since imdb had Jensen playing "Michael" before Season 13 even started, I`m side-eying them so hard.

I think Pellegrino has a "regular" contract like Misha for this Season? Meaning, they have to prioritize SPN over other work offers. With that status, I guess I could see the actress going "one of the leads". Maybe she doesn`t really follow the show (all that much) and just goes by her screentime with him - which I imagine is gonna be ample - than you could get the impression he is "a lead". That one episode earlier this Season was pretty much half Nickifer.   

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BabySpinach

BabySpinach

Regardless of whether Dean can use Michael's shiny angel powers or not, I really do hope they address Dean's current (im)mortality situation. There's no way he could die like a human while an archangel resides in him, right? What if Dean starts throwing himself into hunts, knowing that he can't get hurt, trying to make the most of his shitty, unsustainable situation? I'd watch the HELL out of that.

Or maybe Dean needs Michael's consent to be able to access any element of angeldom, even passive invulnerability. When Sam was unknowingly possessed in season 9, he was still slashed in the throat in 9.05 and needed Gadreel to briefly take over and heal him. That'd be an interesting counterpoint to an angel needing a vessel's consent for possession.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

And the summary says "Nick comes face to face with his past". 

If I got this right, I`m giving myself candy.  :)

Hands you all the candy.  I think your right.

25 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

What if Dean starts throwing himself into hunts, knowing that he can't get hurt, trying to make the most of his shitty, unsustainable situation? I'd watch the HELL out of that.

I can see it being the opposite, Dean would have to be extremely careful not to get killed, because he's the firewall holding back Michael, if Dean got killed that firewall would fall away and Michael would escape.  He might heal Dean, but he'd be in control again. 

25 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

When Sam was unknowingly possessed in season 9, he was still slashed in the throat in 9.05 and needed Gadreel to briefly take over and heal him. That'd be an interesting counterpoint to an angel needing a vessel's consent for possession.

The problem here is that Gadreel was possessing Sam but he was voluntarily letting Sam be in control and staying back.   Gadreel took over healed, Sam or did something with his powers and stepped back.  In order to use Michael's powers he'd probably have to let Michael out of the room.  No way Michael goes back after he heals Dean.

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BabySpinach

BabySpinach

(edited)
1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

The problem here is that Gadreel was possessing Sam but he was voluntarily letting Sam be in control and staying back.   Gadreel took over healed, Sam or did something with his powers and stepped back.  In order to use Michael's powers he'd probably have to let Michael out of the room.  No way Michael goes back after he heals Dean.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to and questioning. Dean as himself used Michael's power in 13.23, with the latter's permission. But now, since it's only Michael's consciousness locked away, his grace should theoretically still be available. We don't know if an angel needs to consent to their powers being used by their host because we've never before seen an angel imprisoned in their own vessel's mind. This is uncharted territory, and I'd love for this to be addressed in the next episodes.

Edited by BabySpinach
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

Kurt Fuller EW interview, previewing his return here

It`s not really spoilery per se but with what he says about Zachariah being pretty much the same person and what Misha said about Season 4 Castiel, it appears to be a situation where the brothers are aware of everything that has happened but somehow other characters regress? I mean, John and Zachariah coming back as pretty much who they were when they died makes sense but why would Castiel regress?

 

From a JDM interview here

Quote

“As a parent, he could’ve done things better certainly, and I think whenever we get a chance to look back at our lives, we all think we could’ve done things better,” Morgan says. “In this episode he sees what he has done and what he has created with his sons, and there’s going to be moments where we get to address those with each son separately and as a unit, and that’s what makes this episode special.”

We`ll see how those turn out.

Edited by Aeryn13
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PAForrest

PAForrest

18 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

From a JDM interview here

Quote

“As a parent, he could’ve done things better certainly, and I think whenever we get a chance to look back at our lives, we all think we could’ve done things better,” Morgan says. “In this episode he sees what he has done and what he has created with his sons, and there’s going to be moments where we get to address those with each son separately and as a unit, and that’s what makes this episode special.”

We`ll see how those turn out.

Well this sounds a little better than what we've read so far which seemed to indicate there was no one-on-one with Dean. Now let's just hope any scene between John and Dean is about John and Dean, or Dean himself, and not about someone else, like that scene between Dean and Mary at the end of season 12 that had nothing to do with Dean.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

Not surprisingly Dean contacts mother of the year and initiates the "bonding"

To me it really felt like more of a fishy cover story. Not in terms that Dean doesn`t plan to go where he says he will go but he probably figured Sam would swallow it more easily if he went all "bonding with mom". Of course, it does look like the most obvious funeral tour ever. And Sam obviously picked up on it, especially the "I`d like to go alone" part.  

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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

To me it really felt like more of a fishy cover story. Not in terms that Dean doesn`t plan to go where he says he will go but he probably figured Sam would swallow it more easily if he went all "bonding with mom". Of course, it does look like the most obvious funeral tour ever. And Sam obviously picked up on it, especially the "I`d like to go alone" part.

I took it that Sam is a bit afraid to let Dean wander off on his own, and might actually be concerned for Mary.  We know that Dean is "the cage", but there's no guarantee he can keep him locked up, indefinitely.  I'd want to keep him where I would know what's going on.

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tessathereaper

tessathereaper

(edited)
2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I took it that Sam is a bit afraid to let Dean wander off on his own, and might actually be concerned for Mary.  We know that Dean is "the cage", but there's no guarantee he can keep him locked up, indefinitely.  I'd want to keep him where I would know what's going on.

IMO, If it was vice versa and it was Sam in that position, Sam would get pissed off if Dean wanted to "keep an eye on him" and treating him like a child and you'd get all sorts of fans calling Dean controlling and mean for not trusting Sam, so Sam can lump it in that regard.  

Edited by tessathereaper
Probably should be moved to Bitterness speculation thread
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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

(edited)
13 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

IMO, If it was vice versa and it was Sam in that position, Sam would get pissed off if Dean wanted to "keep an eye on him" and treating him like a child and you'd get all sorts of fans calling Dean controlling and mean for not trusting Sam, so Sam can lump it in that regard.  

I do wish they wouldn't have made Dean the one to instigate the "two-fer", I get so tired of him chasing after people who don't give a damn about him.

I'm not sure how this cage thing works, but we know from Sam's experience with Lucifer, keeping him at bay, even while hopped up on demon blood, wasn't an easy thing.  And he literally did it for a few minutes, if that.  The reality of Dean walking around with Michael locked up inside him should have all of them crapping their pants.  It's not a Sam vs. Dean thing, it's just common sense.  They have no idea how this works, or whether Michael has any influence over Dean at this point.  Sending him off for a visit with mom, by himself, is just a bad decision all the way around.  I'm sure he'll go, just like I'm sure Sam would have gone, had the story called for it, but that doesn't make it any less of a stupid idea, IMO.

Edited by MysteryGuest
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tessathereaper

tessathereaper

(edited)
3 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm not sure how this cage thing works, but we know from Sam's experience with Lucifer, keeping him at bay, even while hopped up on demon blood, wasn't an easy thing.  And he literally did it for a few minutes, if that.  The reality of Dean walking around with Michael locked up inside him should have all of them crapping their pants.  It's not a Sam vs. Dean thing, it's just common sense.  They have no idea how this works, or whether Michael has any influence over Dean at this point.  Sending him off for a visit with mom, by himself, is just a bad decision all the way around.  I'm sure he'll go, just like I'm sure Sam would have gone, had the story called for it, but that doesn't make it any less of a stupid idea, IMO.

 

Answering in the Bitter Speculation thread

Edited by tessathereaper
auntvi

auntvi

6 hours ago, SueB said:

Exact quote 

Executive Producer Phil Sgriccia teased that this episode “is kind of almost the peak of [Nick’s] storyline this season. It still continues after this, but this is a big moment.”

Wow. Nick has a storyline that is peaking.  Screaming on the inside - in the probably next to last season of Supernatural, why should there still be a storyline for Nick/Lucifer?

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)

Promos for episode 12. 

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-damaged-goods-images-description/187213/nggallery/image/sn1411a_0087b/

 More ep 11 photos.  Nothing there that's super spoilery.  But holy hell, number 11.  Seriously.... no words.  excuse me I need to stare at it some more.

 

I had more but I got distracted.   Sam is wearing that yellow shirt we saw him wearing in the SPPT promo where it looks like he's crying.  So if spec is correct that Dean asks Sam to seal him in some kind of cage, I'm guessing Sam says no at first.  That would account for the tension between them in those photos and then at the end of ep 12, he agrees.

But why wouldnt' he do it right away?  To lower the risk of Michael getting out?

Edited by ILoveReading
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Myrelle

Myrelle

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I thought he meant in a bad place physically, as in location, not injured.  That was the impression I got when I watched the panel.

I found the panel where he talks about it.

It's at about the 21 minute mark and I now definitely think that he's talking about being in the box. And he calls it "a little scene".

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Doing my usual guess-from-the-promo rewatch, as some as some general spec:  We see Dean in the box obviously - and yes, that is most certainly the scene Jensen was talking about - we see the phone dying and then his fist punching through. Which is weird because if he was locked in, shouldn`t he NOT get out from the inside? Isn`t that the purpose of that thing? So if he goes in for real, why would he come out five seconds after? I do hope the episode doesn`t portray the character as a wimp who can`t hack it. Bucklemming usually see him as a hardened killer, though, so hopefully nothing wimpy. 

Now if it is a vision or nightmare, why would it be there? To deter Dean from going in?

Or since the ep supposedly deals with prophets, I wonder if this is some prophetic vision of Dean going into the box but Michael still making his way out?

I kinda think that Billie`s book wasn`t the box ending but something else and this is Dean`s alternative. So due to something having to do with a prophet, they learn it won`t work? Or at least they still need xyz to make it work? If Michael can get out, being at the bottom of the ocean is no problem for him. He needs to be supernaturally contained.

Also, we still have several clips from the Onward promo that have not yet been placed IMO. I don`t think the promo extended beyond episode 13. And maybe not much from that made it in so there are still some things I expect in episode 12. 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

I'd have to watch it again but it looked a lot like Cas's fist punching through the window of a door, probably to unlock it since you can see a lock.

Checked it again and yes, it seems to be some door and not the box.

Still think that box is some vision then of the future. Since the episode still ostensibly deals with prophets, I can see that playing into it somehow. Maybe to deter Dean and show him (and the audience) how horrible his fate would be? 

IMO either the box idea gets put to bed in episode 12 or this is an angsty vision which would hint to it actually happening in the Finale. I can`t see Dean being put in it because then what, Sam and Cas easily open it again from the outside because of reasons?    

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SueB

SueB

  • Author

I also assume Dean is NOT in the box (for obvious reasons) at the end.  And like @Aeryn13 I think the prophet is linked in.  Perhaps the prophet sees what happens and somehow Michael leaves and Dean is the only one left inside.  Hence, the box won’t work so they abandon that option. 

 

As as for the sea, to me the assumption is that the Box works but he doesn’t want anyone attempting to open it.  Buried means someone can open it. Under the sea is a lower probability.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Still think that box is some vision then of the future. Since the episode still ostensibly deals with prophets, I can see that playing into it somehow. Maybe to deter Dean and show him (and the audience) how horrible his fate would be? 

IMO either the box idea gets put to bed in episode 12 or this is an angsty vision which would hint to it actually happening in the Finale. I can`t see Dean being put in it because then what, Sam and Cas easily open it again from the outside because of reasons?

It worked on me in just that promo. The thought of being buried alive has always been something that scares the crap out of me, I can't even contemplate that kind of terror.

I really hope that it's just a vision and that they've found a way to let this storyline of Dean being the cage for Michael play out until the end of the season. *fingers crossed*

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Btw, I was wrong about the woman Nick tortures being the upcoming actress. Still think she is gonna play "Sarah" aka his "dead wife" but maybe more of a ghostly figure then. Or a vision/dream whatnot. 

Scenes I could not yet place and are IMO either in ep 12 or 13, with a slim chance of early 14:  someone drowned in a bathtub? the brothers with some guy who opens a closet with a skeleton in it? someone whose hands are tied getting choked? I believe that`s all. 

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SueB

SueB

  • Author

From TVLineSpoilers

 

Quote

Anything on Supernatural Episode 300? –Axy
“A couple of things that make it unique,” says Brad Buckner, “is we’ve never really explored the population of Lebanon [and what they think of Dean and Sam]. ‘Who are these mysterious strangers who sort of live here, but sort of don’t? We don’t know where they live, actually. It’s a big secret.'” Also in the milestone hour (airing Thursday, Feb. 7), “There are some surprises that come up that produce some really surprising emotion,” Buckner hints. “It’s a little different from some of our benchmark episodes. It’s not particularly wacky, but there are some definite surprises and a big emotional corker.” Bonus Scoop: Episode 16 may find the guys in “a very crazy, weird world run by a psychic,” EP/director Phil Sgriccia tells us.

Between this and the 300th, it feels like the Winchester’s ARE taking their size 13-14 boots and stomping thru various AUs. Cool.   

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

I hadn`t seen this yet:

Quote

The hour (airing Thursday, Feb. 7 at 8/7c) will also explore how the residents of Lebanon, Kansas view the mysterious strangers who live in the nearby Men of Letters bunker. “Where we pick it up, [Dean and Sam are] just rolling into the liquor store to pick up some daily supplies,” star Jensen Ackles previewed, “and you get a perspective from the local teenagers of, ‘Who are these guys? What are they doing? Oh, my mom said they were so-and-so. Or my dad said he was…’ I think it will have a little bit of a Stranger Things vibe to it.”

Source

Of course from Dabb, I dread what the comments are gonna be. Especially from teenagers. I don`t mind if they are weirded out, if at least it`s evenly spaced. And please no "old man" jokes. To teens, Sam would be old, too. Or neither would be. 

Also from the article:

Quote

it’s no surprise that Ackles said his reaction upon reading the script was, “‘I want more of this. I want, like, three or four more episodes of this.'”

I hope that`s a good omen.

 

As for episode 16, I wonder if they mean ep 15 or 16 since they shot out of order so they nearly finished shooting episode 16 but will film ep 15 as the 16th. Presumed title for ep 15 is "Peace of Mind", that would fit with a world run by a psychic. Ep 16 is "Don`t go in the woods". Who knows.  

Edited by Aeryn13
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juppschmitz

juppschmitz

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Especially from teenagers.

Oh, dear Lord, no more teenagers, please! Can we have some old-age pensioners? Housewives? Young school kids? You know, anything BUT more teenagers. I'm so sick and tired of the teenification on this show. They bore me to tears, they do. The whole bloody lot of them.

I get it, Dabb wants to attract a younger audience. *eyeroll*

Well, tough shit, his "heroes" are middle-aged men and that's that. (And I'm old enough to appreciate at least one of those middle-aged men quite a lot, thank you very much.)

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mertensia

mertensia

On 1/25/2019 at 9:32 AM, SueB said:

 

 

As as for the sea, to me the assumption is that the Box works but he doesn’t want anyone attempting to open it.  Buried means someone can open it. Under the sea is a lower probability.

Woman, do you not watch horror movies? Opening boxes they shouldn't is a staple of horror movies. I can see it now. An exploratory dive with a submersible, they find and bring up the coffin and boom. End of the world. 

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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