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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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AlyciaJayne

AlyciaJayne

I don’t know if I‘ve missed something but why would Dean saying “yes” to Michael ever be an option? Michael already has a vessel that seems to be working fine and in his universe Dean was never born so how could Dean be his true vessel?

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

55 minutes ago, AlyciaJayne said:

I don’t know if I‘ve missed something but why would Dean saying “yes” to Michael ever be an option? Michael already has a vessel that seems to be working fine and in his universe Dean was never born so how could Dean be his true vessel?

There has been some speculation that Dean would somehow use their universe's Michael - the one in the cage still - to fight the AU Michael. Sure, they said 'our' Michael is a drooling mess now, but this is Dabb-era Supernatural where past canon is disposable. I don't think it will happen, I just thought the parallel with S5 and them actually speculating about what might happen if it was Mary that Dean thought he could save by saying yes was interesting.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

At the very least, AUMichael should be wary of Dean being OurWorldMichael's True Vessel, especially if he finds out about OWMichael still being alive albeit caged in hell-which if he makes it here, should be one of the first things of interest to him if he hopes to take over.

But again, it's Dabb and Singer we're talking about here and the only canon they seem to know of concerning what's come before is LOLcanon.

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

On 3/12/2018 at 7:28 PM, catrox14 said:

OHHHHH that's a good find! Hmmmm..

I won't say I  told you so.  

 But seriously they have been setting this up fgor two seasons.

On 3/8/2018 at 12:12 PM, catrox14 said:

Yup. Or if there is a s14, Dean won't be a true alive Dean. JMHO. 

Dean!Michael natch.

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enaiowen

enaiowen

2 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

I won't say I  told you so.  

 But seriously they have been setting this up fgor two seasons.

This should probably go in the Unpopular Opinions Thread but I  really *really* hope you're wrong. 

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Wasn't it already said that they end up in the Scoobyworld because of the TV they get from a pawn shop? Like the TV itself is haunted or cursed or a portal of some kind

Edited by catrox14
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Casseiopeia

Casseiopeia

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Wasn't it already said that they end up in the Scoobyworld because of the TV they get from a pawn shop? Like the TV itself is haunted or cursed or a portal of some kind

Yes but I was thinking the TV belonged to the kid?

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)

I'm sure this was already known, but the season finale is scheduled for May 17th.

TVSeries

The finales begin with DC’s Legends of Tomorrow season three finale on April 9th at 8 p.m. ET/PT and continue with Black Lightning‘s season one finale on April 17th at 9 p.m. ET/PT, Jane the Virgin‘s season four finale on April 20th at 9 p.m. ET/PT, Riverdale‘s season two finale on May 16th at 8 p.m. ET/PT, Supernatural‘s season 13 finale on May 17th at 8 p.m. ET/PT, Arrow‘s sixth season finale on May 17th at 9 p.m. ET/PT, Dynasty‘s season one finale on May 18th at 8 p.m. ET/PT, The Flash‘s season four finale on May 22nd at 8 p.m. ET/PT, and iZombie‘s season four finale on May 28th at 9 p.m. ET/PT.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

I know that Dabb and Co. have pretty much brought every character back this season, but I think it would be rather ridiculous to have brought back Gabriel and then also bring back our Michael to battle AU Michael.  And let's not forget Lucifer, Asmodeus, Ketch...  Especially when most of them are probably going to die again within a few more weeks.  This just reeks of lazy writing to me.  

Considering how many old television shows they are rebooting, I guess original thought in Hollywood is officially dead and buried.

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

Episode 17 synopsis is out.

 

Quote

 TRUST NO ONE – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) continue to collect the pieces necessary to open a rift to the other world in order to save their family. Their latest quest leads them to a Men of Letters bunker from the 1920s and a hungry God from another dimension. Meanwhile, Ketch (guest star David Hayden-Jones) makes a shocking decision about Gabriel (guest star Richard Speight Jr.) after an unruly encounter with Asmodeus (guest star Jeffrey Vincent Parise). John Showalter directed the episode written by Davy Perez (#1316). Original airdate 4/5/2018.

A hungry God with a capital G... Are we about to find out there is more than one Guck in addition to more than one archangel etc? Could it be a reference to the empty? Or am I reading too much into the use of the capital G and it’s just gonna be a pagan god. 

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

4 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Episode 17 synopsis is out.

 

A hungry God with a capital G... Are we about to find out there is more than one Guck in addition to more than one archangel etc? Could it be a reference to the empty? Or am I reading too much into the use of the capital G and it’s just gonna be a pagan god. 

The "from another dimension" is what stood out to me. It could be a different universe Chuck? More likely a pagan god, but... .

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Sounds like the start of a redemption arc for Ketch.

Or, that Ketch decides to try and kill Gabriel. More likely he lets him go, but... .

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

8 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Or, that Ketch decides to try and kill Gabriel. More likely he lets him go, but...

Gabriel can only be killed by an archangel using the arch angel blade.  Ketch knows he can't kill Gabriel.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

24 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Gabriel can only be killed by an archangel using the arch angel blade.  Ketch knows he can't kill Gabriel.

Oh, I'm sure if the show wanted, there can be other ways to kill an archangel.

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

55 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

The "from another dimension" is what stood out to me. It could be a different universe Chuck? More likely a pagan god, but... .

The more I think on it the more I think it’s just gonna be a pagan God or perhaps the Empty. I can’t think of how the “hungry” descriptor would fit an AU Guck since IIRC he doesn’t eat souls, flesh or anything like that? 

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catrox14

catrox14

34 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

The more I think on it the more I think it’s just gonna be a pagan God or perhaps the Empty. I can’t think of how the “hungry” descriptor would fit an AU Guck since IIRC he doesn’t eat souls, flesh or anything like that? 

Amara was "hungry".  Maybe she'll be God in that dimension.

But since it's a Men of Letters bunker, I wonder if it's another portal to Oz and we get Charlie back as a God.

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Amara was "hungry".  Maybe she'll be God in that dimension.

But since it's a Men of Letters bunker, I wonder if it's another portal to Oz and we get Charlie back as a God.

I doubt the show would be that creative, or write it in a good way, but now I’m half imagining a world where Guck was the one stuck in the mark of Cain hahaha 

 

Ooh that’s another fun spec! 

 

Although Id say unfortunately it’ll be the most boring option and a generic pagan god MOTW.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

22 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But since it's a Men of Letters bunker, I wonder if it's another portal to Oz and we get Charlie back as a God.

Please, no.

Weren't some of the Gods from 5x19 people-eating types? Or did they mean power-hungry God? Or an AU Chuck who wants some bacon? JFC show, TOO MANY CHARACTERS!

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

The more I think on it the more I think it’s just gonna be a pagan God or perhaps the Empty. I can’t think of how the “hungry” descriptor would fit an AU Guck since IIRC he doesn’t eat souls, flesh or anything like that? 

Well, he doesn't in our "dimension."  Judging by Amara, I think it likely he could if he chose to, though. 

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Weren't some of the Gods from 5x19 people-eating types?

All the pagan gods have been people-eating types. That's how they power up; through human sacrifice.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

There is always Famine too. Maybe Famine is GOD in an AU. Maybe this is a way to bring back the 3 other horsemen since Billie is Death

Maybe the creepiest baddie they ever had on the show. *laments My Bloody Valentine not being near the top of all the 'best of' lists*

I kind of shudder to think how he could be creepier/worse as an AU Horseman.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I think it`s gonna be some run-of-the-mill pagan "God".

So Scoobynatural is probably more standalone and then the next three episodes after that will likely be about gathering the remaining ingredients.  We have blood of a Holy Man already, apparently. It stands to reason that they manage to find whatever it is in that 1920`s bunker while the "God" will provide the hurdle part of that.

According to the spoiler sheet episode 18 will feature Ketch and Hunt filming in the woods. That episode will mark supply number 3?

We have the pics of Gabriel out and about for episode 20. Thus, archangel grace. Also, according to the spoiler sheet Mary and Jack film at some "camp", can only be the survivor`s camp in the AU world. So at that point they are still there. 

Now episode 20 might be the episode they open the rift and bring everyone back.

Then ep 21 is called "Beat the Devil". Gee, I wonder what it`s gonna be about. 

Ep 22 "Apocalypse Now" - AU!Michael wreaking havoc and trying to turn our Earth 1 into his apocalypse world?

I wonder if like Season 4 of Buffy this will serve more as the conclusion of that arc. Whereas the final episode is a more "standalone" capper. 

 

However, this would mean that at the earliest AU!Michael "meets" Dean in episode 20, maybe 21. Another reason why I don`t think at all those two characters will have anything to do with each other. Way back when Dabb or Singer said that "at first Michael won`t be interested in Dean". Well, there is not much time between "at first" and "end credits for Season Finale". Not enough to have even a mini-arc. 

Right now I`d say Sam or Rowena or a combination thereof will get to beat Lucifer. And then Jack will deal with AU!Michael.         

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catrox14

catrox14

You know. It almost seems like SPN is turning into an anthology series with so many characters and IMO random episodes.  Like this quest for things to open a portal is really kind of unnecessary. I don't understand why they have to do this whole quest for stuff other than the show wants to do it. They know they can use a dreamwalker. Why don't they just hire a dreamwalker, have said dreamwalker find the AU, transport themselves into that AU and get a message to Jack. I mean on some level shouldn't Jack be able to detect a dreamwalker with his angel mojo mind reading stuff? He should be able to see a dreamwalker coming.
I'll bet they finally do that after collecting all the other things and they come upon Evil Kaia who ends up doing something nefarious to them

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

12 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think it`s gonna be some run-of-the-mill pagan "God".

So Scoobynatural is probably more standalone and then the next three episodes after that will likely be about gathering the remaining ingredients.  We have blood of a Holy Man already, apparently. It stands to reason that they manage to find whatever it is in that 1920`s bunker while the "God" will provide the hurdle part of that.

According to the spoiler sheet episode 18 will feature Ketch and Hunt filming in the woods. That episode will mark supply number 3?

We have the pics of Gabriel out and about for episode 20. Thus, archangel grace. Also, according to the spoiler sheet Mary and Jack film at some "camp", can only be the survivor`s camp in the AU world. So at that point they are still there. 

Now episode 20 might be the episode they open the rift and bring everyone back.

Then ep 21 is called "Beat the Devil". Gee, I wonder what it`s gonna be about. 

Ep 22 "Apocalypse Now" - AU!Michael wreaking havoc and trying to turn our Earth 1 into his apocalypse world?

I wonder if like Season 4 of Buffy this will serve more as the conclusion of that arc. Whereas the final episode is a more "standalone" capper. 

 

However, this would mean that at the earliest AU!Michael "meets" Dean in episode 20, maybe 21. Another reason why I don`t think at all those two characters will have anything to do with each other. Way back when Dabb or Singer said that "at first Michael won`t be interested in Dean". Well, there is not much time between "at first" and "end credits for Season Finale". Not enough to have even a mini-arc. 

Right now I`d say Sam or Rowena or a combination thereof will get to beat Lucifer. And then Jack will deal with AU!Michael.         

I wouldn’t say that rules it out. Back in season 5 Sam made the decision to be possessed in episode 21 and he was possessed by Lucifer for a grand total of 1 episode in 5x22. 

If they were going for Dean being possessed by our Michael they could easily have Dean approach Michael in the cage and be possessed in a handful of episodes too. Dean and our Michael already have history from back in s5 so they don’t need to build that up. 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

I wouldn’t say that rules it out. Back in season 5 Sam made the decision to be possessed in episode 21 and he was possessed by Lucifer for a grand total of 1 episode in 5x22. 

But the connection of "perfect vessel" was set up in episode 3 of that Season and there were stepping stones in between. Then the entire culmination of Season 5 for say, the last three episodes worked towards just that.

Quote

If they were going for Dean being possessed by our Michael they could easily have Dean approach Michael in the cage and be possessed in a handful of episodes too. Dean and our Michael already have history from back in s5 so they don’t need to build that up. 

Right now the brothers only know about AU!Michael in name. AU!Michael couldn`t care less about them in return. I don`t think he will cross over till at the earliest the ending of episode 20.

Michael in the cage hasn`t been thought of (and even the idea of him was easily discarded in Season 11). On top of that we have a crap-ton of  other plotlines and mini-villains. If episode 21 is all about dealing with Lucifer (and possibly Asmodeus, Ketch, Rowena, Anael, situation in heaven) and then episode 22 about dealing with AU!Michael, when would they put this entire mini-arc in? If you wanna leave at least half the episode for culmination, that gives you roughly twenty minutes to put in the set-up that would normally take say at least 4-5 episodes. 

Now I`ve never believed this would be a thing this Season but now it looks extremely unlikely. Not to mention there is also Jack. So I`d give it a 0.000000000001 % chance.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)
3 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

I've gotten confused but right now the Winchesters have no idea of a plan by AUMichael to come to their world and take over right? 

They know. Cas told them in 13.12

Quote

CAS
Yeah, maybe.
DEAN
Well, maybe is all we got. So, we grab satan, we use his grace to open a door between the two universes okay? Then we mom and we get jack and then we get out. Slam the door before Michael follows us and destroys our universe. Now it’s gonna be harder than it sounds.

Edited by catrox14
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Res

Res

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

But since it's a Men of Letters bunker, I wonder if it's another portal to Oz and we get Charlie back as a God.

WHY must you say such things?! Now it's out there. Ugh!

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I wonder if this bunker is nicer, cozier and possibly more secure than the one they've got now?  

Even if it is, it won't be after they get into it.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

12 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Episode 17 synopsis is out.

 

A hungry God with a capital G... Are we about to find out there is more than one Guck in addition to more than one archangel etc? Could it be a reference to the empty? Or am I reading too much into the use of the capital G and it’s just gonna be a pagan god. 

Can't wait for some Gabriel!

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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

Please, no more Chuck or Amara.  I'd prefer just some "one and done" random god that is dispensed with by the end of the episode.  This season really does feel completely out of control to me.  I can't picture a satisfying ending with all of these characters hanging around.  Unless they plan to continue with the AU plot into next season, I don't see how they end this without just cramming everything into the last episode.

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

(edited)

I know half the people who mentioned it were probably being sarcastic but what the heck here’s a list. Let me know if there’s anyone I missed or misaligned in your opinion. 

 

Good Guys

 

High Tier 

• Sam and Dean Winchester (Powerwise they’re only human and should be low tier, but they’ve lead status plot plutonium)

• Jack (the strongest on the side of good and presumably will one day be a match for Michael) 

• Potentially Chuck and Amara but MIA at present. 

 

Mid Tier

• Castiel (A regular angel perhaps on the high end of regular, but no match for the High Tier characters and doesn’t get lead status plutonium) 

 

Low Tier

• The Wayward Crew (Jody, Donna, Claire and Patience)

• AU Bobby Singer

• Mary Winchester

 

Neutrals 

 

High Tier

• Death / Billie: Although she seems to be leaning towards side of good.

• Empty Keeper: Seems to be God like (at least within his own territory), but only interested in sleeping. 

 

Mid Tier

• Rowena: Seems to be on the side of good at present due to her hatred of Lucifer, but not sure Id call her “good” just yet.

 

Bad Guys

 

High Tier

• AU Michael (The strongest on the side of evil) 

• Asmodeus

 

Mid Tier

• Lucifer (Formerly high Tier and second to AU Michael, but since his grace extraction hes likely bumped down to here) 

• Anael (Lowend of this Tier and run of the mill angel)

 

Low Tier

• Mr Ketch

• AU Kevin (Doesn’t seem to be evil evil himself but he’s assisting AU Michael) 

Edited by Wayward Son
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catrox14

catrox14

Wait. What!!!.???

http://www.nerdsandbeyond.com/2018/03/18/jeffrey-dean-morgan-promises-john-winchester-will-return-on-supernatural/

Quote

 

Jeffrey Dean Moran was at Walker Stalker Convention this weekend in Germany, and said something that will make Supernatural fans happy! Answering a fan question about Supernatural, Jeffrey promises that John Winchester will come back before the show is over.

You can see the video of Jeffrey answering the question below!

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catrox14

catrox14

So if JDM isn't talking out of his ass, and isn't drunk, maybe he's already agreed to a return. I wonder if he has any inside scoop on the end date that he can say this with such assuredness.

He's only ever said in the past he'd love to come bCk if they could work it out. He's never said John would absolutely appear. Hmmmmmmm

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trxr4kids

trxr4kids

26 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So if JDM isn't talking out of his ass, and isn't drunk, maybe he's already agreed to a return. I wonder if he has any inside scoop on the end date that he can say this with such assuredness.

He's only ever said in the past he'd love to come bCk if they could work it out. He's never said John would absolutely appear. Hmmmmmmm

My thought is he must have an inside scoop to say John would definitely appear but who knows. I do think it would suck for the show to end without an appearance by John in some way, so I'm pleased. I'm sure it include dialogue I want to happen because the show never let's me have nice things but I'll take what I can get, lol.

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catrox14

catrox14

8 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

I wouldn't mind to see a sincere apology from John to both of the boys for the crappy job he did as a dad. But I don't want some big redemption. 

I don't think John needs redemption because he can't undo the damage he did to Dean and Sam. He can only help them heal now I think.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

7 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

I wouldn't mind to see a sincere apology from John to both of the boys for the crappy job he did as a dad. But I don't want some big redemption. 

From both parents, to the boys, and to each other. Mary to John for leaving him in the dark about who she really was. John to Mary for his epic failings as a parent, and the pair of them to Dean and Sam, for all of it. Don't care if either of the boys would reject the need for it. I want it for them.

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