Spoilers With Speculation

[Pondlass1]

13 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Crowley at least had a purpose.

This is the thing.  The Crowley character could mix in with all manner of storylines whether they be arc or MOTW, he could pop up to help or cause chaos for the Winchesters.  But Lucifer's only got one mission -  his son and the destruction of all.  A bit of a thin arc.  How can it last? Or be interesting?  I get the impression even dedicated fans of the show have grown weary of Lucifer.  The 'other' Lucifer is way more entertaining.

[Idahoforspn]

16 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

This is the thing.  The Crowley character could mix in with all manner of storylines whether they be arc or MOTW, he could pop up to help or cause chaos for the Winchesters.  But Lucifer's only got one mission -  his son and the destruction of all.  A bit of a thin arc.  How can it last? Or be interesting?  I get the impression even dedicated fans of the show have grown weary of Lucifer.  The 'other' Lucifer is way more entertaining.

 Maybe Dabb thinks he can mirror the "other" Lucifers success on SPN. Maybe he thinks he can spin off something with him.  Please tell me this is just my wild imagination. I am much more than just tired of our Lucifer.

[gonzosgirrl]

11 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

This is the thing.  The Crowley character could mix in with all manner of storylines whether they be arc or MOTW, he could pop up to help or cause chaos for the Winchesters.  But Lucifer's only got one mission -  his son and the destruction of all.  A bit of a thin arc.  How can it last? Or be interesting?  I get the impression even dedicated fans of the show have grown weary of Lucifer.  The 'other' Lucifer is way more entertaining.

Because you know they're going to try and redeem him. *gag*

At least with Crowley, he was dealing with the boys right from the jump (handing over the Colt to them in 5.10). He had swings from frenemy to out-right villain and back again, but they were all believable, for me at least. He was a fully formed character. At this point, Lucifer is just a petulant child, killing (or not) on a whim with no agenda at all, and 7+ years in to the character, I'm not willing to invest any more time on him. I don't know why TPTB are so unwilling to let this character go - maybe trying to piggyback on the interest in the new Lucifer (on Fox)? But his time on SPN should've ended last season, IMO, and also IMO, it's a lack of imagination on the showrunner(s) part that keeps him as their go-to.

[bozodegama]

The show really had to kill off Crowley.  It seems like their bringing back AU Bobby to be in at least a few episodes, they may bring back Rowena and they are definitely bringing back Cass (It's either bring Cass back or have Dean search under every rock,make crossroad deals or even try to summon Chuck to help every single episode to try and find him.  No way our Dean is just going to let Cass, his brother, die without a fight).  There's just too many storylines now and Crowley is the odd man out imo.  I do hope they find a way for AU Bobby to get normal Bobby's memories back.  That would be a great scene, like Lazarus Rising, where instead of Bobby saying, "Dean," incredulously we have Dean saying, "Bobby," incredulously.  Maybe throw some holy water in his face or cut him with a silver knife to be certain.  There really is no emotional payback to having Bobby back if he's not really Bobby.  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

From Bitch/Jerk, (cause it's not);

6 minutes ago, SueB said:

Hmmm.... basis of Jack's name.

3 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I thought I was the only one chanting that nursery rhyme! From the first moment I heard the name... . ;)

ETA: Although, I realize you're singing a completely different song, but still... .

Lol.  Actually, when I first heard the name all I could think of was Jumpin' Jack Flash (it's a gas, gas, gas)

But I don't know now - American Pie might fit a little better with the storyline?

Oh, and there we were, all in one place
A generation lost in space
With no time left to start again
So come on, Jack, be nimble, Jack be quick
Jack Flash sat on a candlestick
'Cause fire is the devils only friend
Oh, and as I watched him on the stage
My hands were clenched in fists of rage
No angel born in Hell 
Could break that Satan's spell
And as flames climbed high into the night
To light the sacrificial rite
I saw Satan laughing with delight
The day the music died

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

From Bitch/Jerk, (cause it's not);

Lol.  Actually, when I first heard the name all I could think of was Jumpin' Jack Flash (it's a gas, gas, gas)

But I don't know now - American Pie might fit a little better with the storyline?

Oh, and there we were, all in one place
A generation lost in space
With no time left to start again
So come on, Jack, be nimble, Jack be quick
Jack Flash sat on a candlestick
'Cause fire is the devils only friend
Oh, and as I watched him on the stage
My hands were clenched in fists of rage
No angel born in Hell 
Could break that Satan's spell
And as flames climbed high into the night
To light the sacrificial rite
I saw Satan laughing with delight
The day the music died

The first moment I heard the name, I started chanting "Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, Jack jumped over the candlestick". Until you posted the American Pie reference, I hadn't thought of that.

The name makes so much more sense now! ;)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Also interesting: according to: https://treasuryislands.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/origins-jack-be-nimble/

The most likely explanation of the rhyme is the tradition of candle jumping as a (fairly vague) way of divining the future.

Practiced at fairs in England since the 1600s, candle-jumping appears to be derived from more ancient bonfire jumping rituals. It was particularly popular in Buckinghamshire, where lace-makers would end their St Catherine’s Day festivities by lifiting their skirts and leaping a candle. No doubt doubly popular because is allowed spectators a glimpse of the girls’ dainty ankles, it was thought that jumping over a lit candle without extinguishing the flame would bring good luck. Jack Be Nimble describes this practice, but it’s still not clear who, exactly, Jack is!

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Also interesting: according to: https://treasuryislands.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/origins-jack-be-nimble/

The most likely explanation of the rhyme is the tradition of candle jumping as a (fairly vague) way of divining the future.

Practiced at fairs in England since the 1600s, candle-jumping appears to be derived from more ancient bonfire jumping rituals. It was particularly popular in Buckinghamshire, where lace-makers would end their St Catherine’s Day festivities by lifiting their skirts and leaping a candle. No doubt doubly popular because is allowed spectators a glimpse of the girls’ dainty ankles, it was thought that jumping over a lit candle without extinguishing the flame would bring good luck. Jack Be Nimble describes this practice, but it’s still not clear who, exactly, Jack is!

Maybe it's just Kelly's father's name.

[Demented Daisy]

The name Jack has a lot of evil connotations as well: Jack the Ripper, Springheel Jack, Jack Torrance (The Shining), Jack Frost....

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 minute ago, Demented Daisy said:

Jack Frost.

Wait.  Jack Frost is evil?  :(

[Demented Daisy]

I'd say so.  ;-)

[DittyDotDot]

8 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

The name Jack has a lot of evil connotations as well: Jack the Ripper, Springheel Jack, Jack Torrance (The Shining), Jack Frost....

Oh, I know. It's just that when I first heard the name, I thought it was so typical and obvious. Thinking of the song American Pie seems to fit the show so much more for so many reasons. And knowing how much Dabb seems to love his quoty references, I wouldn't be surprised if the name wasn't spawned ::snort:: from the song.

[Wayward Son]

I think we've reached the point where it is safe to say Jared, Jensen and Misha won't be acknowledging Mark's exit. Pretty disappointed in the three of them if I'm honest :( 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

23 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe it's just Kelly's father's name.

President Jefferson Rooney was who Kelly was supposedly all in love with. Could his name have been Jefferson Jack Rooney? LOL and she tried to spell out JEFF but Lucifer was like NO his name is JACK .

One thing I think about is that "Jack" is a diminutive for John....and then I think...Michael?  But I'm 100% sure this won't be tied to Michael because why would it? Michael has been retconned into being Lucifer's younger brother and insane. Although there is the Lance of Michael out there. 

Oh...wouldn't it be something if the Lance of Michael, put some of Michael's angel juice into Cas and when Cas touched Kelly's belly, Sproutifer was like "Ohhhh it's Uncle Michael! YAY! I want to be Uncle Michael's kid instead" and now Sproutifer is a child of humanity, Michael, Lucifer, and Cas. LOL.

Speaking of the Lance of Michael, that made me think about Crowley's stash of ALL the artifacts. Cas knows where that is, because he was the meatsuit when Casifer tried to kill Crowley. 

Do you think Crowley left behind a will? Maybe he taped it inside the liquor cabinet in the bunker?  I would laugh my ass off if Crowley left them a 20 foot long will that tells them everything he knew about everything and that he put the key to the aforementioned cadre of crap in the liquor cabinet.  And now I'm going to be sad when that doesn't happen. 

12 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I think we've reached the point where it is safe to say Jared, Jensen and Misha won't be acknowledging Mark's exit. Pretty disappointed in the three of them if I'm honest :( 

Unless this is THE most elaborate troll of all time.  And Mark comes back to Comic Con and says, "Surprise, Muthafuckas!" 

[Idahoforspn]

27 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I think we've reached the point where it is safe to say Jared, Jensen and Misha won't be acknowledging Mark's exit. Pretty disappointed in the three of them if I'm honest :( 

I'm really hoping they have talked to Mark personally and aren't doing anything on Twitter because of the firestorm following Jim Micheal tweet. No matter what they say, the fandom will erupt again so maybe better to say nothing on social media. We may hear something at the next con.

[gonzosgirrl]

26 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

I'm really hoping they have talked to Mark personally and aren't doing anything on Twitter because of the firestorm following Jim Micheal tweet. No matter what they say, the fandom will erupt again so maybe better to say nothing on social media. We may hear something at the next con.

I'm 100% of the belief that they have spoken outside of social media. The episode was filmed weeks ago, so while whatever happened to assure Mark he wasn't coming back, the 'death' has been known to them for a while. The utter silence from everyone, not just J2M, has to mean something. Maybe Mark just asked them not to jump into the fray, who knows. I guess the next con (Phoenix) will give us some insight. Or, you know, not.

[Jonesy]

When Mark was finishing filming for the year he was being real sentimental and thanking the cast and crew for changing his life for the better as if he was leaving the show and wanted to express his gratitude...then a few weeks later Mark seems disgruntled.  So what changed? 

Or is Mark still overly happy about leaving the show and just simply didn't want Michaels to spread false hope to his fans? 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Jakes

[DittyDotDot]

5 minutes ago, Jakes said:

When Mark was finishing filming for the year he was being real sentimental and thanking the cast and crew for changing his life for the better as if he was leaving the show and wanted to express his gratitude...then I few weeks later Mark seems disgruntled.  So what changed? 

Or is Mark still overly happy about leaving the show and just simply didn't want Michaels to spread false hope to his fans? 

That's what I'm assuming. What Michaels tweeted was no more than what they say when any character gets killed off. "Thanks, and you know, no one truly dies on Supernatural." They said it for Bobby, they said for Charlie, they said it for Kevin and so on... .

I just think, since so many people are speculating whether they're trolling us or not, Mark might have wanted to nip it in the bud.

 

ETA: Or they are totally trolling us...No seriously, I don't think they are anymore, but it would be fun to try and keep it up all summer. ;)

Edited May 26, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[rue721]

My guess is that whatever went on between Mark and management got personal, and nobody wants to get involved publicly because Mark is on management's bad side, and they don't want to wind up on management's bad side, too. I think it's more about not publicly taking sides against your boss or publicly criticizing your boss than it is about their own feelings about Mark. They probably did touch base with him (and say goodbye) in private.

[rue721]

ETA:  I also think that it made (thematic) sense for Crowley to die this season. They kept pounding the anti-fascism drum, and then they got rid of Hell's king. I don't think Hell will have centralized rule for a while. Hopefully not, anyway.

TBH I never understood the concept of Hell even having a government. Isn't the point that it's pandemonium? ;) Although TBH, I personally would also prefer pandemonium to having a king, so...?!

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

I'd say so.  ;-)

Well, I was thinking more of this Jack Frost:  :)

[catrox14]

28 minutes ago, rue721 said:

ETA:  I also think that it made (thematic) sense for Crowley to die this season. They kept pounding the anti-fascism drum, and then they got rid of Hell's king. I don't think Hell will have centralized rule for a while. Hopefully not, anyway.

TBH I never understood the concept of Hell even having a government. Isn't the point that it's pandemonium? ;) Although TBH, I personally would also prefer pandemonium to having a king, so...?!

I don't think Hell was ever pandemonium. There was a hierarchy of some kind before Crowley made it into his version of  Hell which was a never ending DMV line .

Alastair seemed to report to Lilith. IMO Hell was more like a militaristic monarchy with a King, Princes and Knights of Hell, and soldier demons, which existed before Crowley took on the role of King of Hell. He didn't create the hierarchy but he changed it to be more of a corporate structure which makes sense given Crowley was a deal making crossroads demon. His Hell denizens  had to work to stay topside which it seems most demons wanted rather than be in the actual pit where the real suffering occurred.

[rue721]

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't think Hell was ever pandemonium. There was a hierarchy of some kind before Crowley made it into his version of  Hell which was a never ending DMV line .

Alastair seemed to report to Lilith. IMO Hell was more like a militaristic monarchy with a King, Princes and Knights of Hell, and soldier demons, which existed before Crowley took on the role of King of Hell. He didn't create the hierarchy but he changed it to be more of a corporate structure which makes sense given Crowley was a deal making crossroads demon. His Hell denizens  had to work to stay topside which it seems most demons wanted rather than be in the actual pit where the real suffering occurred.

I think you're right, I just personally never liked that concept of Hell. But I never liked how ultra-organized Heaven is, either. It makes sense in a way, I just find it boring. Chaos FTW

[Jonesy]

I've heard a person say Misha said at JibCon that he was told he was being killed about 7 weeks ago or so but only found out he was coming back to the show a week or so ago.

I didn't see this verified by anyone else?  Is this true?  Or is it a false or inaccurate story?  Does anybody know?  I'm a little skeptical.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Jakes

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, Jakes said:

I've heard a person say Misha said at JibCon that he was told he was being killed about 7 weeks ago or so but only found out he was coming back to the show a week or so ago.

I didn't see this verified by anyone else?  Is this true?  Or it a false or inaccurate story?  Does anybody know?  I'm a little skeptical.

I hadn't heard that before. I would be interested to find out if it is true or not also :)

[DittyDotDot]

It could be true in the sense that I think contract negotiations were after they finished filming the finale. So, it could be they did the massacre hoping to get them all back and then something broke down in contract negotiations for Mark Sheppard?

I have no facts to offer, just a wild guess.

[Idahoforspn]

4 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

It could be true in the sense that I think contract negotiations were after they finished filming the finale. So, it could be they did the massacre hoping to get them all back and then something broke down in contract negotiations for Mark Sheppard?

I have no facts to offer, just a wild guess.

Possibly being demoted to reoccurring instead of regular. Speculation there too.

[DJG1122]

2 hours ago, Jakes said:

When Mark was finishing filming for the year he was being real sentimental and thanking the cast and crew for changing his life for the better as if he was leaving the show and wanted to express his gratitude...then a few weeks later Mark seems disgruntled.  So what changed? 

 

15 minutes ago, Jakes said:

I've heard a person say Misha said at JibCon that he was told he was being killed about 7 weeks ago or so but only found out he was coming back to the show a week or so ago.

 

IF Misha said this at JibCon, possibly Misha, Mark S and Ruth were all told they were being killed off several weeks ago. Then, again, if the above its true, a week or so ago, Misha (and possibly Ruth) found out he (they) were coming back but Mark S found out he was not. Contract issues? Creative issues? Storyline issues? 

[Wayward Son]

This is pure speculation

Has it been confirmed that Misha is a series regular again next year? I wouldn't be surprised if we were to learn that both had been demoted and Misha chose to stay while Mark chose to leave. 

[Jonesy]

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

This is pure speculation

Has it been confirmed that Misha is a series regular again next year? I wouldn't be surprised if we were to learn that both had been demoted and Misha chose to stay while Mark chose to leave. 

The whole story may very well be false.  Nothing has been verified except the J's are back.  I 100% expect Misha to be back as a regular though--with Mark gone, makes that a surer bet imo.  And maybe Pellegrino too.

[Idahoforspn]

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

This is pure speculation

Has it been confirmed that Misha is a series regular again next year? I wouldn't be surprised if we were to learn that both had been demoted and Misha chose to stay while Mark chose to leave. 

I would be really surprised. I don't think even Dabb is crazy enough to want to face the absolute firestorm that would cause. I like Cas but am not a super fan and even I recognize how badly Dabb would be stepping in it. :-)

[Wayward Son]

3 minutes ago, Jakes said:

The whole story may very well be false.  Nothing has been verified except the J's are back.  I 100% expect Misha to be back as a regular though--with Mark gone, makes that a surer bet imo.  And maybe Pellegrino too.

 

1 minute ago, Idahoforspn said:

I would be really surprised. I don't think even Dabb is crazy enough to want to face the absolute firestorm that would cause. I like Cas but am not a super fan and even I recognize how badly Dabb would be stepping in it. :-)

I'm definitely not stating anything as fact :) . I just don't think Misha / Cas is 100% secure the way some other fans do. Plus the show has demoted him before so it's not impossible for them to do it again. Plus with the shows ratings declining this season the CW may have demanded they cut back costs and the demotion of Mark and Misha would have been a pretty effective way of doing so. As I said this is pure speculation / musings on my part and not at all a statement of fact :)

[DJG1122]

Another thought. Mark Pellegrino was in 13 Reasons Why  which is renewed for S2. Supernatural may have had to make him a regular to lure him away from that blockbuster.

Edited May 26, 2017 by DJG1122

[Idahoforspn]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

 

I'm definitely not stating anything as fact :) . I just don't think Misha / Cas is 100% secure the way some other fans do. Plus the show has demoted him before so it's not impossible for them to do it again. Plus with the shows ratings declining this season the CW may have demanded they cut back costs and the demotion of Mark and Misha would have been a pretty effective way of doing so. As I said this is pure speculation / musings on my part and not at all a statement of fact :)

I understand your just speculating and anything is possible.

2 minutes ago, DJG1122 said:

Another thought. Mark Pellegrino was in 13 Reasons Why  which is renewed for S2. Supernatural may have had to make him a regular to lure him away from that Blockbuster.

I wish they hadn't. :-(

[catrox14]

I really want to know what this exchange between Misha and Jensen was all about, what Jensen nearly blabbed about Misha. NSFW for language. some swearing.

 

They were talking about Misha's kids both singing "Carry on My Wayward Son"

Jensen: "So, is what you told me earlier, public knowledge? Cause that's kind of a nice segue

Misha: /terrified " What did I tell him?"

Jensen leans over and whispers something to him and Misha was genuinely terrified.
Misha : No . No. No. No.  That would have been a fucking disaster.
Jensen: never mind
Misha: I'm so glad you didn't ask that. What a coup
Jensen: Of course Jared would have just said it.
Misha: I'm actually having palpitations right now
Jensen: Unfiltered Jared
Jensen: That's why I ask! OKAY!! Moving on.

It's funny, but what is the secret!?

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I really want to know what this exchange between Misha and Jensen was all about, what Jensen nearly blabbed about Misha. NSFW for language. some swearing.

 

They were talking about Misha's kids both singing "Carry on My Wayward Son"

Jensen: "So, is what you told me earlier, public knowledge? Cause that's kind of a nice segue

Misha: /terrified " What did I tell him?"

Jensen leans over and whispers something to him and Misha was genuinely terrified.
Misha : No . No. No. No.  That would have been a fucking disaster.
Jensen: never mind
Misha: I'm so glad you didn't ask that. What a coup
Jensen: Of course Jared would have just said it.
Misha: I'm actually having palpitations right now
Jensen: Unfiltered Jared
Jensen: That's why I ask! OKAY!! Moving on.

It's funny, but what is the secret!?

I would love to know this, too! It feels like it must have been something show related.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I would love to know this, too! It feels like it must have been something show related.

I was thinking show related or because they were talking about Misha's kids, maybe Misha and Vicki are expecting again?  Either way, Misha nearly crapped his pants. LOL

[Wayward Son]

I'm honestly not sure how Misha's kids could make Jensen think of something show related. I feel like it has to be something personal. The closest thing I could think of would be a reveal that the crack!spec Jack's DNA was altered so he was Cas' child is actually true. However, I can't imagine something like that panicking Misha. So I'm leaning heavily towards personal.  

[CluelessDrifter]

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

I've heard a person say Misha said at JibCon that he was told he was being killed about 7 weeks ago or so but only found out he was coming back to the show a week or so ago.

I didn't see this verified by anyone else?  Is this true?  Or is it a false or inaccurate story?  Does anybody know?  I'm a little skeptical.

It's at about the 3:21 mark in this video of his afternoon panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Eajh6uBLk
 

[Wayward Son]

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I was thinking show related or because they were talking about Misha's kids, maybe Misha and Vicki are expecting again?  Either way, Misha nearly crapped his pants. LOL

I actually think this could be it! I could imagine Misha fearing Vicki would be pissed if Misha, or even worse a co-worker of his, outed the pregnancy to fans before she was ready. And I wouldn't blame her for being pissed if Misha, Jensen or Jared had of done that. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

Or they were just messing around.

Quote

I could imagine Misha fearing Vicki would be pissed if Misha, or even worse a co-worker of his, outed the pregnancy to fans before she was ready.

True story:  a convention in Germany a couple years back, I ended up riding the train with Misha, Jim Beaver, Mark Pellegrino etc and they were even nice enough to share a taxi with me to the hotel. Anyway as we deboarded the train Jim Beaver loudly outed Misha`s impending fatherhood (for West, back then) in front of everyone. Like, maybe the actors travelling together all knew but there were other fans on that platform.    

Edited May 26, 2017 by Aeryn13

[Wayward Son]

4 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

It's at about the 3:21 mark in this video of his afternoon panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Eajh6uBLk
 

Thank you for that link <3. 

Until the season starts and proves me wrong, or an announcement does, I am going to go with the theory the show demoted both Mark and Misha but offered them recurring roles. Misha accepted the demotion like he did back in season seven, while Mark refused and parted ways completely. 

[Jonesy]

17 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

It's at about the 3:21 mark in this video of his afternoon panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Eajh6uBLk
 

Thanks for the info!

12 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Thank you for that link <3. 

Until the season starts and proves me wrong, or an announcement does, I am going to go with the theory the show demoted both Mark and Misha but offered them recurring roles. Misha accepted the demotion like he did back in season seven, while Mark refused and parted ways completely. 

And I think Misha comes back as a regular almost for sure--only time will tell.

[Jonesy]

57 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I really want to know what this exchange between Misha and Jensen was all about, what Jensen nearly blabbed about Misha. NSFW for language. some swearing.

 

 

They were talking about Misha's kids both singing "Carry on My Wayward Son"

Jensen: "So, is what you told me earlier, public knowledge? Cause that's kind of a nice segue

Misha: /terrified " What did I tell him?"

Jensen leans over and whispers something to him and Misha was genuinely terrified.
Misha : No . No. No. No.  That would have been a fucking disaster.
Jensen: never mind
Misha: I'm so glad you didn't ask that. What a coup
Jensen: Of course Jared would have just said it.
Misha: I'm actually having palpitations right now
Jensen: Unfiltered Jared
Jensen: That's why I ask! OKAY!! Moving on.

It's funny, but what is the secret!?

Hmm...maybe the song sparked Jensen's memory--could mean it refers to something in the finale and Cas.  Or maybe not.

[MysteryGuest]

I still think it's entirely possible that Mark decided to leave the show himself to pursue other opportunities.  When Michaels tweeted about the possibility of him coming back at some point, Mark responded by saying there were no such plans because he has no plans to go back.  He does appreciate the fans, and maybe he just didn't want SPN dangling him out there as a carrot when he really has no intention of coming back.  Who knows if we'll ever hear the whole story.

Edited May 26, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[rue721]

Honestly, I don't know if I want to hear the whole story. The whole story would probably just make everyone involved look petty.

[7kstar]

From an actor's point of view, his character is at a standstill and not interesting to play.  If he wants to challenge himself as actors usually want to do, then it is time to move on.  I can see Mark being upset with some of the choices they made and feeling like it was just time to move on. 

To honest I wish they hadn't brought Lucifer back.  But I guess we will get three or four stories about Mary and Lucifer, maybe.  Or will Mary just disappear in the other AU...

I wish I felt confident about the writers, but Jensen's latest con story about Mary demonstrates how little thought they gave to bringing Mary back.  So much of the good stuff seems to be a happy accident.  I think that is the biggest crime.

[gonzosgirrl]

37 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I still think it's entirely possible that Mark decided to leave the show himself to pursue other opportunities.  When Michaels tweeted about the possibility of him coming back at some point, Mark responded by saying there were no such plans because he has no plans to go back.  He does appreciate the fans, and maybe he just didn't want SPN dangling him out there as a carrot when he really has no intention of coming back.  Who knows if we'll ever hear the whole story.

I could buy that if he hadn't lead off (before the tweet thanking the fans, cast and crew) with the tweet about his line being cut and saying it figured. The 'surprise, surprise' just seemed like it was a dig.

[MysteryGuest]

12 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

could buy that if he hadn't lead off (before the tweet thanking the fans, cast and crew) with the tweet about his line being cut and saying it figured. The 'surprise, surprise' just seemed like it was a dig.

Well, he might have asked them to let him do the line, and they might have agreed, and then cut it later.  It absolutely could have been a dig, but it doesn't necessarily mean he was fired.  Now that he's no longer in their employ, there's nothing keeping him from making comments about TPTB.  It might have been the number one reason why he wanted to leave.  I honestly don't think he had issues with Jensen or Jared, or they with him.  I would assume it was more along the lines of creative differences.  Mark's been around a lot, and he's starred in a number of different shows.  I'm sure he thinks he'll just move on to the next thing.  And I'm sure there was also some agreement about not saying too much so as not to ruin the mystery of who would survive and who wouldn't.  But with the Cas news out of the bag so quickly, that plan sort of fell apart.

[Idahoforspn]

30 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

 

I wish I felt confident about the writers, but Jensen's latest con story about Mary demonstrates how little thought they gave to bringing Mary back.  So much of the good stuff seems to be a happy accident.  I think that is the biggest crime.

Or Jensen spins gold out of straw.